The last one is getting long.
Here’s a searchable version. I’ve downloaded it for my own convenience. I haven’t found any stunning surprises yet, including about some of the (apparently) bit players like Carter Page and George Papadopoulos.
It’s worth noting that Barbara Ledeen, whom Trump asked to find Clinton’s emails and came up with some fakes from “the dark web”, is married to Michael Ledeen, another of those slimebag holdovers from Iran-Contra and other scams. I think it might be worth looking further into what part of “the dark web” they were from. Ledeen was connected to Joel Zamel, who is part of an intelligence-for-hire group. The connection is through a relatively inocuous part of Zamel’s empire, a group called Wikistrat.
Carry on.
Raoul
Steny Hoyer is a fuvking god dammed embarrassment.
We need to find and fund a primary to retire his lame, cowardly ass.
JPL
Nycsouthpaw and The Hoarse Whisperer have been doing an excellent job reading the report so I don’t have to. Kyle Griffin also deserves a shout out. IMO
Adam L Silverman
Slowly making my way through it.
stinger
At work, so I can’t (yet) read the 300 comments in the previous thread, much less the entire 400p report. But I’m wondering if, whether there was “collusion” or not, is ANYONE exercised about the fact that there was clearly Russian interference in US elections? Are we going to do anything to prevent that in the future?
TenguPhule
Its the Usual Suspects, only all of these fuckers are actually guilty.
TenguPhule
@stinger:
Sadly no.
chopper
but…but the Bogg! my god, man, THE BOGG! it’s ruined.
patrick II
I wouldn’t mind if someone explained Rod Rosenstein to me. I have defended him a few times because without him there would be no Mueller report, and think of how ridiculous that would be — federal law enforcement subjugated to an even more extreme degree than it has been. Imagine if Barr had been in charge from the beginning.
Anyhow, I have even called Rosenstein a hero for going against his republican instincts and appointing Mueller in the first place. But now, he is allowing himself to be used to legitimize what I perceive to be a part of a continuing conspiracy to obstruct justice. I don’t get him.
TenguPhule
Evil just will not take a fucking holiday.
TenguPhule
@patrick II:
He has seen that the other Republicans in government who have the power to hold Trump accountable will not do so.
And so he’s fallen in line with the rest of his party. He is now a good Republican.
BlueGirlFromWyo
As has been pointed out before, you know who else is a veteran of the Iran-Contra scandals? Bill Barr, of course. Can we investigate the fascist conspiracy in our own country next?
TenguPhule
Every single word was a bald faced lie.
What comes after gas lighting?
lamh36
The same folks who some Dems say candidates need to woo for 2020…have said they like that Chump is a “fighter” even if he completely decimates their way of life…but hey…”he’s giving it to the Libtards”.
Tell me again…that THOSE voters will see and hear this and think to themselves…”oh hey…that’s a fighter”.
Mary G
@patrick II: Big fat chicken. He may have tried to move his party, but his party moved him.
evodevo
Michael Ledeen was also involved with the leadup to Bush’s Iraq War – he worked for Doug Feith, one of the Cheney cabal who compiled the heap of lies and questionable intelligence presented to the public to justify taking out Saddam…https://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/MILITARY-MIGHT-The-man-behind-total-war-in-2648122.php
patrick II
@stinger:
RE: Russian interference.
Trump did not want to just stop an investigation into his collusion with the Russians, he said the whole, entire Russia Investigation was a witchhunt (which his friend Vlad agreed with), and that is an order worse than just defending himself. He saw the investigation in terms of what a businessman might call “externals”, the things he could avoid responsibility which might negatively affect his own bottom line. In this case the externals were not throwing waste chemicals into a river, as bad as that is, but undercutting the electoral process of the United States. Doesn’t bother him though.
kindness
The MSM I’ve seen so far (just print, I’m at work and can’t watch video) is not happy with Barr’s ‘assistance’ on Mueller’s report and are even suggesting Barr has lied to us (again).
lamh36
Another Scott
@stinger: The summaries at the start of each volume are pretty damning.
But not surprising.
E.g. It’s pretty clear that Mueller said that he couldn’t charge Donnie with obstruction because of the OLC opinion that the President can’t be indicted. But he lays a lot of facts and evidence out that he did, of course, obstruct justice – as is clear to any one who has seen any TV news since January 2017.
Mueller’s testimony before the House should be very interesting…
Does Paul Ryan or any of the others at the “this is how we know we’re a family” meeting make an appearance anywhere?
Cheers,
Scott.
TenguPhule
@lamh36:
I remember when there was a Supreme Court seat being decided like this.
Now how did that work out for us?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@patrick II: I saw a meme of his standing behind Barr looking like a hostage and wearing a name tag that read LEEK.
TenguPhule
@Another Scott:
And that right there is a big failure to the cause of law and order.
Dorothy A. Winsor
MattF
I just don’t see any surprises here. The main question is whether there is anything in the Report that we all didn’t already know. So far, it looks like a ‘No’. Also, I’m not going to get worked up over Barr’s lies. He was hired to lie, and… he did. Is that a surprise? Again, ‘No’.
Trump’s reaction seems to be the usual combination of deceit, bluster, and bullying.
tokyokie
@TenguPhule:
Asphyxiation or the house exploding.
VeniceRiley
I’m not mad at Republicans like I’m not mad at scorpions or chthulu. I AM livid at Steny Hoyer.
lamh36
stinger
@TenguPhule: What I figured.
lamh36
For the entirety of his time as Atty General…the RWNJ did nothing but call Holder corrupt or being in PBOs pocket…
NOTHING Eric Holder ever did compares to what Bill Barr and Rob Rosentein (by virtue of being behind Barr on that platform) did today.
Leto
The part that tries to sell you $10 worth of oregano, promising a great time!
Bobby Thomson
@patrick II: he’s a coward. I assume Sessions refused to fire him for obvious reasons so he was safe. Once Barr was in he rolled over like a puppy. Consider that he willingly wrote the pretext memo for Trump.
rikyrah
Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) Tweeted:
I’m not an expert on this stuff, but this seems like an interesting part on page 18 of the PDF that I haven’t seen other people point out, where Mueller says his conclusions could conceivably be different if not for witnesses lying, invoking privilege, etc. https://t.co/nRm85Ec4zj https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1118897406039461889?s=17
Bobby Thomson
@lamh36: it’s been nighttime in Russia.
patrick II
I am just going to reiterate something simple that I continuously hear misstated. Mueller was never going to indict Trump for obstruction no matter what evidence he found because he did not think it was his place to do so. He did not “clear” Trump by deciding not to indict him because it was a decision he never made. He gathered evidence and left the decision about what further legal process to follow to others, including congress. It would be nice if I had more faith in the “others”.
Bobby Thomson
@rikyrah: and the destruction of evidence.
rikyrah
Keith Boykin (@keithboykin) Tweeted:
If Loretta Lynch or Eric Holder ever held a press conference about Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton without releasing the accompanying report, as William Barr just did, Fox News & the entire Republican Party would have blown a gasket. This is corruption at its worst. #BarrCoverUp https://twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1118877425532907521?s=17
Patricia Kayden
@Raoul: Oh dear. He’s my Rep. I sent him an email about initiating impeachment proceedings. May they all grow spines.
lamh36
Puh-leeze…FUQ Rod Rosenstein.
patrick II
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Rosenstein did look like a hostage there, not happy at all. I don’t get why he is still there, maybe to stay in position to restore integrity after congress impeaches Barr? Just kidding.
Raoul
@VeniceRiley: Yeah, livid here too.
Anyone in Maryland on here who may want to weigh in on Mckayla Wilkes for MD-05?
I’m sure it’s a long shot, but Steny needs to be informed that he’s not in this fight for the right reasons any more.
FlipYrWhig
@lamh36:
In context, though, doesn’t “a fighter” basically mean “hates liberals and people of color and wants them to hurt”?
Raoul
@patrick II: When does his pension vest?
eta: @lamh36 Oh, I see. So it’s his legacy he thinks he’s preserving here? Really?
rikyrah
@lamh36:
Get.the.ENTIRE.PHUCK.OUTTA.HERE.
Get some phucking balls.
It’s time for impeachment.
for BOTH Barr and Dolt45.
NotMax
“These things must be done … delicately.”
… WW of the West
She wasn’t mistaken about that. And now the giant hourglass has been turned over.
Mnemosyne
I don’t think there’s going to be anything “new” in the report for people who have been following the Russian interference story, but it hasn’t ever been laid out in a single narrative like this. That’s what the impact is.
@lamh36:
Hoyer’s constituents need to call his office and tell him to STFU.
rikyrah
Malcolm Nance (@MalcolmNance) Tweeted:
FBI suspects Russians hacked ‘at least one’ Florida county, Mueller report says – POLITICO https://t.co/7udc1CAZlv https://twitter.com/MalcolmNance/status/1118954029579735041?s=17
James E Powell
@rikyrah:
Reminds me of the Fitzgerald report on the Valerie Plame investigation. This is what the Republicans learned from Iran-Contra: everybody lie and keep lying.
Adam L Silverman
@lamh36: Fortunately, this decision won’t be made by Hoyer. It will be made by Pelosi after consulting with Nadler and Schiff. And that decision will be made once Nadler and Schiff get the exhibits with all the grand jury testimony and other evidence. And there will be a political calculus to this. Does impeaching him give him a way to present himself as fighting in a way that just bringing everything to light via investigations and hearings by the Oversight, Financial Services, Judiciary, and Intelligence committees? And, for Pelosi, does this further lock in that impeachment is a partisan political tool, which is the GOP position as Gingrich made clear when he authorized the impeachment of Clinton, to simply remove president’s elected from the other party because you can do so? Those are questions I can’t answer. I know what I’d advise, which is that regardless of what it does to the outcome of the next election, you have to start impeachment for the President and Attorney General Barr. And you don’t need to worry about locking in impeachment as a partisan political tool, rather than a constitutional tool to hold the President and other executive branch officials accountable for their actions, because the GOP has made it clear since 1996 that that is there official position on impeachment and what it is to be used for.
Adam L Silverman
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/mueller-made-14-criminal-referrals-outside-offices
NotMax
re: Hoyer
What, then, is the proper time frame? 19 months? 30? 47?
What a maroon.
@lamh36
Dead
manlawyer walking.Patricia Kayden
@patrick II: Kind of like how Ken Starr (**shudders**) didn’t convict President Clinton but left it up to Congress to impeach him.
rikyrah
Garrett M. Graff (@vermontgmg) Tweeted:
This reads to me as an impeachment referral: “The conclusion that Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President’s corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balanced and the principle that no person is above the law.” https://twitter.com/vermontgmg/status/1118911598331084800?s=17
patrick II
@Bobby Thomson:
I would have written letter asserting Comey broke FBI regs too — because it is the truth and did us all great harm, and it was a legitimate ask of a president. Comey didn’t just disregard FBI regs, government employee interference in an election is against the law. Trump also asked Rosenstein to put in that Comey’s Russia investigation was not justified. Rosenstein would not do that, so Trump did on national TV a day later.
soga98
@VeniceRiley:
Kind of late to get riled about that. Hoyer has been an obvious dino foe decades.
Adam L Silverman
lamh36
Dilanian trying to scrap the egg off his face from his statement that Chump was totally exonerated by Burr’s 4 page summary.
Course he ain’t foolin nobody
lamh36
Burr’s Senate colleagues. esp on the Dem side should be DARN mad
TenguPhule
@MattF:
Chalk up DOJ as another failed institution.
Matt McIrvin
The revelations in the Mueller report are so damning to Trump that I’m going to have to excoriate the Democrats EXTRA HARD to express my frustration.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
My guess: they threatened to take away Rosenstein’s pension the way they took away McCabe’s, and Rosenstein caved.
Cacti
@Adam L Silverman:
Some of us didn’t overlook it at all. Tad Devine was to Bernie as Paul Manafort was to Trump.
Raoul
@Adam L Silverman: Good analysis, Adam. Even so, Hoyer is an ass for deflating Dems today. Just tactically so damn stupid.
eta: I think the case against Barr is even clearer, and could provide enough juice to Dems to keep energy up, with less of the potential blowback of Trump ‘fighting’ Dems. He’d just scream witch hunt endlessly over Barr, which I think now bores most people.
rikyrah
???
Greg Sargent (@ThePlumLineGS) Tweeted:
Mueller documented extensive and grave misconduct by Trump, and importantly, shot down the legal theory of Trump’s lawyers — and Barr himself — that presidents are above the law.
Over to you, Congress.
@paulwaldman1 and me on Mueller’s findings:
https://t.co/vUuLZq4lBy
Baud
@Matt McIrvin:
Oh, two comments in one day I want to marry.
Bigamist Baud! 2020!
patrick II
@Patricia Kayden:
Not really like that at all. except for the indictment part.
TenguPhule
@Raoul:
I see what you did there.
rikyrah
CBS News (@CBSNews) Tweeted:
Pg 157 of #MuellerReport: “Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations… carried out through one-on-one meetings in which [he] sought to use his official power outside of usual channels” https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1118921885474009088?s=17
lamh36
@FlipYrWhig: oh sure…but the candiates and those who support the wooing…don’t really want to talk about WHO and WHAT he’s fighting that his voters enjoy him for.
Fair Economist
@lamh36:
I find this extremely disturbing. Hypothetically Rose Twitter is pro-socialist and they should have have plenty to say about honest issues and Bernie’s campaign even if they are infiltrated/manipulated by Russians and Republicans. But silence? That implies everything coming out of Rose Twitter is being driven by Russians and Republicans. (Of course individuals have opinions, but it’s the Russian/Republican amplification that makes it loud.)
piratedan
and lest we forget, that NONE of this shit goes down without the Senate Majority Leader threatening to make this traitorous shit a “partisan” issue. If Obama gets the GOP to stand up with him and confront Russian meddling in the elections on behalf of Trump, what are the chances that Comey continues along the path that he followed. McConnell’s actions show that he’s just as complicit in the illegality and I would even argue, is the only lynchpin holding this house of cards upright.
It’s high time that some one bring charges and perp walk the fucker out of the Capitol.
Baud
@lamh36:
Ok, thats legitimately stupid. Even if you believe that, you don’t say that today.
Mnemosyne
@rikyrah:
I am not a lawyer, but I am also 100 percent reading this report as an impeachment referral.
Adam L Silverman
@Cacti: Fine, fine, I’ll email Ioffe and tell her Cacti didn’t overlook this. Happy?//
TenguPhule
@piratedan:
You misspelled ‘way past time’
TenguPhule
@Baud:
You misspelled ‘ever’.
lamh36
@Adam L Silverman: THANK YOU!!!!
TenguPhule
Trump again jokes about staying on as president for more than two terms
Donald Trump couldn’t tell a joke to save his life.
Bill Arnold
Some interesting bits about encryption (and possibly disappearing (after timeout) messages) masking communications. (This is an, uhm, opportunity (possibly personally quite dangerous depending on the players involved) for anyone who has access to these communications.)
This is early in the document (page 10). Note the plural (some of bold mine):
and Manafort was one of the “some of”:
stinger
@NotMax: I hope you’re right. (One of my favorites quotes, BTW.)
Raoul
@TenguPhule: Hmm. If I made a funny, I’m actually not sure what it was?
Adam L Silverman
@Raoul: The strategic question Pelosi and Nadler will have to answer is that if you impeach Barr, will that tactic provide the results needed to achieve the larger objective of setting up the President for removal by being voted out in the 2020 election?
Lapassionara
@Bobby Thomson: in a court room, the destruction of evidence results in an instruction to the jury that the jury can presume that the destroyed evidence would be bad for the defendant.
Quaker in a Basement
The Hill reports that Ledeen got money from Eric Prince to hire a consultant to verify the authenticity of her “dark web” email cache. https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/439578-blackwater-founder-erik-prince-helped-fund-effort-related-to
TenguPhule
@Raoul: Traditional Democratic mascot.
lamh36
Embedded archived footage of McConnell, Graham and Grassley singing another tune during the Clinton impeachment days
Bill Arnold
@piratedan:
M. McConnell, Rand Paul and L. Graham all independently blocked vote on the resolution to demand a release of the Mueller report.
There has been considerable talk over the past year of each of those three being compromised.
patrick II
@patrick II
Nicole Wallace: “Mueller alledges criminal cons piracy couldn’t be proven”
Once again, Mueller did not make that decision, he gathered evidence but did not decide one way or the other because Trump is the president.
Raoul
@Adam L Silverman: Yes, and I am not strategic enough or beltway enough to know what the right call is. My frustration with Hoyer is that he should have just stayed mum about the question today. Pelosi was much more effective in saying things like
“Attorney General Barr’s partisan behavior has triggered a crisis of independence & impartiality.”
TenguPhule
Please note that we’re not completely insane here in Hawaii.
If the gods are kind she’ll be out of Congress next term.
Also, who the fuck is sending her money? Cause its not us!
rikyrah
@Adam L Silverman:
CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP
AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN
It’s time for Democrats to phucking start acting like we are in the WAR that we are in.
They wanted, gutlessly, to punt this to Robert Mueller. Well, that’s not how it worked out.
Time for War. And, those of you who are squeamish..STFU and go sit in the corner.
GET.THE.PHUCK.OUT.OF.OUR.WAY.
ruemara
@Fair Economist: Because many of them are willfully obtuse, perfunctory in their progressiveness and nearly indistinguishable from the right because, as one so kindly pointed out to me, “We’re not focusing on identity politics because we want what voters really want, progressive economic policy”.
@rikyrah: I’m not squeamish in the least. I just know that it’ll pass the House, die in the Senate and then beused to hammer the democratic party as being treasonous, proof that there was nothing because he didn’t get removed (impeachment isn’t removal) etc. etc. I’m willing to risk it and I think it’s fully deserved, but I know not everyone is me. If people were all like us… I believe everyone would’ve been in jail sometime around January 30th 2017.
lamh36
Hoyer did himselves no favors and not only himself, but he put Nancy Pelosi in a position to have to agree or disagree or just be asked directly about what Hoyer said.
Time for him to go…
TenguPhule
@rikyrah: Got room on that couch for one more?
lamh36
TenguPhule
@lamh36:
Tomorrow’s headline: “Dems in Disarray, some say Trump did not collude.”
I hope this remains a joke by tomorrow.
Raoul
@TenguPhule: Oh, right. Reminds me of unintentional hilarity that broke out when I was a youngster playing the home version of Password with my parents and grandmother. The secret word was Donkey. My grandmother said ‘ass’ and I turned scarlet and blurted out ‘butt’. I think I was eight.
SenyorDave
Hopefully Pelosi reached out to Hoyer and told him to shut the f**k up. What a horse’s ass. He couldn’t have kept his thought to himself?
Fair Economist
@ruemara: Rose Twitter isn’t even that. They could be talking about economic justice right now, but without Russian/Republican direction, they’re silent.
MisterForkbeard
@patrick II: Not quite right. Mueller DID say he couldn’t prove a criminal conspiracy, though he did uncover much of what we’d call “collusion”. He also said some people were lying and his information from him, and that it could change the result of the report if he’d had that information.
He gathered evidence but did not make a decision on Obstruction because Trump is the president.
bemused
@patrick II:
I saw a clip on twitter somewhere of Rosenstein showing a little smile when Barr stopped taking questions and they departed. Anyone else see that?
Cacti
@lamh36:
Manafort and Devine.
I wonder who the Kremlin asset is in Bernie’s 2020 campaign. Besides Bernie himself.
Fair Economist
The Mueller report says the President committed crimes and he wasn’t allowed to fully investigate or indict. That requires impeachment. The report is plain enough we’ll get political benefit even though the Republican Senators are also colluding.
GregMulka
@piratedan:
Obama failed on this, too. He could have not given in to the terrorist Mitch McConnell. He could have presented the evidence, said Mitch wanted to hide it from the American people, and then let the chips fall where they may. Instead, he trusted the better angels of our nature and failed the nation in his last duty.
Obama is a good man and he was a good president but trying to steer the middle of the road on this was his greatest mistake and failure.
ruemara
@Fair Economist: They only come out when you launch the “Dems are evil & spineless” signal. Then it’s a feeding frenzy.
sukabi
Thanks was wondering about her…wasn’t Michael Ledeen also part of GWB’s “brain trust” seems like he’s played a more recent part in the country’s decline than Iran / Contra
Bill Arnold
I’ve been avoiding the right-wing conspiracy mills to see what their take is on the redacted Mueller report.
Has anyone looked? If you took the Mueller report and did a pins-and-colored-yarn version of it, it would cover a full large wall.
The American right-wing is primed for this stuff.
TenguPhule
@Fair Economist:
So the IC wasn’t keeping him up to date on Trump and company?
Mnemosyne
@Fair Economist:
I enjoyed this retweet and GIF on that same guy’s feed:
https://mobile.twitter.com/reesetheone1/status/1118952954172723202
rikyrah
SERIOUSLY…
anyone gotten a statement from Mark Warner?
Folks told him that he was being PLAYED……
uh huh
uh huh
TenguPhule
@GregMulka:
To be fair, if anyone had tried to explain a quarter of what was in Mueller’s report to the general public 3 years ago, they’d have been labeled a crazy conspiracy theorist.
Adam L Silverman
@Fair Economist: And this is surprising?
Leto
@rikyrah: shorter: Lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way.
I trust Nancy Smash, so I’ll follow.
lamh36
@GregMulka: fuq off…this is not about Obama…and the folks trying to bring PBO into this do so cause it easier than focusing on the facts of all this.
The only folks who want to keep on placing blame on Obama is Fox News and their viewers.
Fuq that…I’ll reserve my fire for those who deserves it…put in %… 0.000000000001 % of this entire situtation is on Obmaa… 99.9999999999% of this is on Chump and company, Barr, GOP, and elected GOP like McConell, et al
TenguPhule
Trump tried to seize control of Mueller probe, report says
At least some of the media are taking this seriously and noticing the trees in the forest.
Mnemosyne
@GregMulka:
I was wondering when the victim-blaming would begin to deflect responsibility from the Republicans.
Remember, if you didn’t want someone to steal your car, you shouldn’t have let them break the windows and hot wire it. How dare you complain about your stolen car when you’re the one who allowed them to steal it?
Fair Economist
@Adam L Silverman: Honestly, yes. I though Rose Twitter/the purity pony brigade was a real thing, albeit manipulated. Apparently it’s just a couple of kooks with trolls doing all the public support to get them trending.
lamh36
TenguPhule
Jaws is afraid of Free Willy.
Tom Q
So, a few thoughts after a long, exhausting day:
1) Barr’s weeks-ago letter, as we know from polling, didn’t have the intended effect of setting the narrative. But today’s performance I think was actually counter-productive: his obvious shilling — which became crystal clear the moment anyone started reading the actual reporting — made a good portion of the press actively angry, which seems to have caused most to accentuate the negative for Trump in their reporting.
Note: this is the honest reading of the report, but our pathetic press corps has so often leaned toward tender understanding of GOP behavior that merely reporting out accurately comes off as revolutionary.
2) An awful lot of people, even on the good team, have spent several weeks assuming there was no evidence of collusion. The report makes it clear there’s, in fact, a TON of such evidence, but a) Mueller was looking at a very narrow criminal definition and b) just as with obstruction, he wouldn’t have indicted on it; he’d have done the same “over to you, House of Representatives”
3) Fuck Steny Hoyer. Dems who think Pelosi is a party problem should direct ten times the vitriol at go-along-to-get-along Steny. I really doubt his fellow Dems are on board with this statement, and in fact I suspect everyone (including the leadership) is furious with him.
4) I don’t see how impeachment is avoided. This is a damning report, and that’s only going to become more obvious as days go by and more details are absorbed.
William Dudley
@lamh36: in response to stem hoyer’s implication that the election makes impeachment unnecessary — I would say we need impeachment proceedings (even if senate doesn’t convict) to have an informed american electorate.
lamh36
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: Bannon and Prince deleted texts that Mueller believes got to the heart of Prince’s Seychelles meeting.
TenguPhule
@Tom Q:
now we all get to find out, one way or another.
Another Scott
@lamh36: We’ve known that for a while – Putin was desperate to keep Hillary out of the White House because he knew she was going to be tough on him (sanctions, etc.). It’s good to see it in writing, though.
Cheers,
Scott.
Adam L Silverman
@Raoul: Hoyer has been in Congress too long.
Matt McIrvin
@Fair Economist: I’ve seen a fair number of Twitter leftists whose immediate reaction was to preemptively bash the Democrats (Democrats in general, not just, say, Steny Hoyer) for all the caving to Trump they’re going to do on this, which was the basis for my other comment. But they weren’t the Greenwald/Michael Tracey crowd.
lamh36
Over to you…folks who been knocking the HRC campaign…the report has evidence that YES Russian meddled in the campaign and did so to fuq over HRC….yes maybe they couldn’t “prove” it was “collusion” by the Trump camp…but it proves…
YES RUSSIAN DID MEDDLE IN THE DAMN ELECTIONS….AND GUESS WHAT THEY STILL ARE!!!
Gelfling 545
@patrick II: Oh, dear. “Imagine if Barr had been in charge from the beginning.” sounds like we need to be grateful to that little twerp, Session, if only because he had no idea how much this administration would be able to get away with.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: He had a very specific remit and he makes it very clear in the report that multiple witnesses deleted/destroyed information, but that because of that destruction he cannot determine if it was actual evidence.
There is only so much the IC can provide. Text messages between Bannon and Prince, especially if Prince is in the US, are not something the IC is going to have unless a FISA warrant was issued for one or both of them. And one was not.
Emerald
The one thing I’m taking from this entire mess is that if we don’t impeach, whether or not we can get a conviction, then the President of the U.S. indeed is above the law.
Impeachment would set out the evidence directly in front of the public. It’s obviously damning. Watching the senate Republicans refuse to convict ought to be the final nail in their coffin as a viable political party. (Not that it would be, just that it ought to be.)
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
Ah VG missed that (been doing searches). Here’s one such bit for others:
Gelfling 545
@TenguPhule: Interesting to note that the Merriam-Webster word of the day on Twitter is bald-faced.
VeniceRiley
@Raoul:
By LIVID, I mean I would vote for an eggplant to get Steny out. Solely because of this today.
Aleta
About Congress and impeachment proceedings, we know that some like Kamala Harris have already called for the prior step, bringing Mueller before them to testify. Her press secretary Ian Sams didn’t delay in talking obstruction (and Barr’s lies) as soon as possible this morning.
TenguPhule
@Gelfling 545: There are no coincidences.
schrodingers_cat
@Mnemosyne:He was my Congress critter when I lived in MD. I don’t think the dude has had a primary challenger in forever. And his district is 80% D.
TenguPhule
Because of course its just that kind of day.
TenguPhule
Oh gods damn it.
MomSense
I was so busy at work today that I couldn’t tune in to any news at all.
So, what did I miss?
lamh36
TenguPhule
@MomSense:
10 dumpster fires and a burning tire.
Cheryl Rofer
NANCY SMASH is currently in the UK. She’s been there for at least a week, it seems to me. There is not a lot of news coming out about her, so I surmise that she is talking to people about strategies on Brexit and how the US is likely to respond. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were an element of alliance between Democrats and Remainers and discussion of how to end the Russian meddling in both our countries.
So you will not see a lot from her now. That’s fine – her people need to read the Mueller report carefully and figure out what’s next.
I have thought all along that part of what she is waiting for is more public, loud support for impeachment. Keep in mind that every move changes everything in this game. We can do a cool analysis that impeachment is a poor bet politically because the Republicans have made it meaningless or because it will draw Trump’s supporters to his aid. All that is true until it isn’t.
Barr overreached to a point that it looks to me like the media are getting maybe a little smarter. The overwhelming message of the report is that Trump is utterly contemptuous of the law and was fine with working with the Russians. It’s been dribbling out piece by piece, but now it’s all in a continuous story.
I can’t tell you what things will look like in 48 hours, but my sense is that we’re getting closer to impeachment.
Anyone know when NANCY SMASH comes back to the US?
Fair Economist
@TenguPhule:
Yes. What has happened is that Putin has marshalled the resources of an entire country to do the crazy things needed for those crazy conspiracy theories to be true. There are now demonstrably literally hundreds, maybe thousands, of people who job is literally spreading lies through the media all day long. There are hundreds of millions in bribes and support for co-conspirators. It’s quite boggling – but we have receipts!
ruemara
@schrodingers_cat: This is a primary challenge I would support.
Bill Arnold
@TenguPhule:
Anyone know about his politics? Not much showing up. (No wikipedia page either. Yet. :-)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-18/embattled-national-enquirer-reportedly-sold-to-hudson-news-ceo
Tom Q
@schrodingers_cat: I read somewhere else that he’s been extremely successful at bringing money/projects into his district, which counts for a lot in a primary challenge.
I normally sneer at purists advocating primary challenges, but Steny seems to me to be the guy who actually validates the purist crusades. He’s way too accommodating to GOP spin; seems to think we’re still in the mid-80s and Dems have to pretend to be semi-Repubs to win.
Dan B
@Adam L Silverman: Does it seem to you that Pelosi and the Dem leadership are considering whether impeachment will result in reducing the power of the elements most toxic to US democractic institutions, ie. McConnell’s cabal, Mercer/Koch/Adelson etc.?
The big message Hoyer seems to reinforce is: Dems are wimps, not: We are saving our ammo for the big battle. He imagines it’s the latter message.
BlueDWarrior
@lamh36: I belive Trump should be impeached. I also understand doing so would be a declaration of war against the Republican party.
Do enough elected Democrats jabbed three stomach for that is the question…
lamh36
the MSM were always gonna report it as if Dems in Congress are political cowards… and the GOP were always gonna call out Dems as partisan over the report and impeachment.
As Betty and others have said… not doing impeachment for political cowardice reasons is fine…but know this…doing so even with the evidence even with the redacted stuff…means you are impliciting saying the office of the President of the United States IS above the law as long as it is too politically courage for us to do anything about it.
And guess what…do we REALLY think, the GOP would do the same thing in the case of a Dem President?
We all know they wouldn’t…
I get that the old guard are like “remember the Clinton days”…but come on now…Bill Clinton was a much MORE POPULAR President than Chump is even among his own electorate…
the world today is not the same world it is from back then…the things the GOP impeached BC on pales in comparison to ANYTHING that the Mueller report shows that Chump co did!
Fleeting Expletive
I had a dream last night that the pee tape was released and consisted of smearing feces on walls and anything related to Obama, a la Assange. There were speechless pundits. Pandemonium. It was scary.
Also, what I’m seeing of Mueller’s report is an exquisitely elegant argument by say the great legal minds on the USSC. I don’t know yet what to think about that, I want to read it and read analysts whose thoughts may add value when they read it carefully as well.
The report appears to hit a lot of anticipated roadblocks (no POTUS indictment, for example) with a clear agenda set out for Congress & DOJ to fix deficiencies in his prosecutorial toolbox. Likewise Congress needs to clarify cyberlaw blind spots. I’m unclear about whether receiving stolen data for use in political campaign is actionable if you don’t know it’s stolen? Is that what we’re seeing as a defense?
Dear Moderators here—can you make my nym and fake email address stick? I’d love to comment more sometimes but re-entering them inhibits me. Thank you.
rikyrah
Jim Sciutto (@jimsciutto) Tweeted:
To name a few:
1-Trump claimed he never asked for loyalty from Comey – Mueller found he did.
2-Trump claimed he never asked Comey to let Flynn matter go – Mueller found he did.
3-Trump claimed he never pushed McGahn to fire Mueller – Mueller found he did. https://t.co/QdFTP0ZTFm https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1118949256730238981?s=17
Another Scott
@Cheryl Rofer: She ended her trip to Ireland on the 17th, so presumably she will be back today or tomorrow (unless she’s going somewhere else on the way back).
I haven’t been able to find her itinerary.
HTH.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bill Arnold
@Cheryl Rofer:
More than a little bit IMO. The DJT Administration has been training wheels for a press gone soft and corporate (worse than in the e.g. 80s/90s) and ludicrously manipulable using obvious techniques.
(Roll playing an optimist here. :-)
TenguPhule
@Bill Arnold: :Looks like he’s someone who operates out of the public eye. The man has been quietly collecting digital media companies for years, according to some news articles.
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: Actually she’s basically put the UK on notice to get their act together.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/no-chance-of-us-uk-trade-deal-if-brexit-risks-belfast-agreement-pelosi-1.3863434
TenguPhule
@Cheryl Rofer:
The only winning strategy is not to go through with it.
Adam L Silverman
@Bill Arnold: The hedge fund that currently owns it wants to dump it ASAP because of the Bezos stuff. They’ve had trouble finding a buyer. Some were hoping Bezos would buy it. The real question is what happens to the contents of Pecker’s safe?
Dan B
@lamh36: Hoyer could have said: Mueller has revealed many smoking guns. Congress will decide which to pursue to ensure our democracy and the will of the people is protected.
Adam L Silverman
Adam L Silverman
@Dan B: I don’t know. I’m looking at all of this from the same vantage point that you are: the outside looking in.
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
I expect the contents will be expelled with great force.
TenguPhule
@Adam L Silverman:
But does it have the willpower?
Chris Johnson
@Fair Economist:
This Rose Twitter says: impeach Trump. Get the rest of the report. Reveal how many OTHER Republicans are caught up in all this. Signs point to ‘lots’.
This is no time to go ‘impeachment is bad politically because Republicans will say no and that will make us look bad’. When they’re TRAITORS? JFC.
I get that it’s too big for Mueller to fix all this for us. What’s redacted must be hair-raising: you realize what’s getting out is the LEAST they can possibly reveal, and it’s completely appalling? What remains is gonna be ‘and the Republican Senate are the ones who actively turned traitor, as Trump was too much of a bozo to be trusted with treasonous activity’. There’s a reason stuff is redacted. It’s been redacted by a nakedly political operator working for traitors. They must all think they’re going to be guzzling polonium tea any day now. Or polonium beer, if you’re Kavanaugh.
This rose twitter wants them all fucking shot for treason. Don’t be fooled by the extensive and confirmed Russian social media hackery.
And as I posted downthread, I checked out rose-twitter-land on reddit (r/chapotraphouse) and it is CARPETED by operatives making sure nobody is talking about anything Mueller, and drowning what they can’t suppress with sarcasm and astroturf. If you know what to look for it’s a really active operation right around now. Nobody is allowed to get a thread started about anything Mueller. It’s gotta be buried with coordinated downvoting to make sure the rose-folks don’t wise up. Be careful not to stay in your bubble, folks! You gotta peek into enemy territory in order to see what propaganda they are being fed. That’s the name of the game since 2016. As Mueller has unhappily confirmed in no uncertain terms.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott:
You don’t need to know.
Josie
Chuck Todd just raised the point that no government official is outraged by the proof that Mueller gave about the Russian government interfering successfully in our election. I know – blind squirrel, nuts, etc., but I want to hear more of the press pick up on this.
Adam L Silverman
@TenguPhule: Nadler announced he was issuing a subpoena around 4 PM EDT today and that he will take it to court if necessary to get the underlying evidence. So we’ll see.
lamh36
<stro@Cheryl Rofer: Chuckles sounded downright perturbed
NotMax
@TenguPhule
Does that include the safe(s) stuffed with bought and killed stories?
Inquiring minds….
Dan B
@Raoul: @lamh36: Proves that David Corn is smarter than Hoyer. Obvious, I know. It also proves that Corn is living in 2019 and Hoyer in the 60’s or 70’s. He remembers the Dems failing to get traction with Iran Contra and believes you can’t stop the corruption.
I’m imagining how AOC, and all the new women and Maxine would respond to the Barr Pravda Presser.
Bill Arnold
@Adam L Silverman:
@NotMax:
Yes, indeed. That might be (probably is) the most valuable part of the property.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: Life is so unfair sometimes…
Cheers,
Scott.
Ruckus
@lamh36:
Rosentein may be standing there to keep his job. OTOH he may want to be there.
Jay
@Dan B:
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
@AOC
·
40m
Mueller’s report is clear in pointing to Congress’ responsibility in investigating obstruction of justice by the President.
It is our job as outlined in Article 1, Sec 2, Clause 5 of the US Constitution.
As such, I’ll be signing onto
@RashidaTlaib
’s impeachment resolution.
Chris Johnson
@Fair Economist: Twitter is a goddamn phantasm. Like Facebook is a paid Russian propaganda outlet with really sophisticated victim profiling.
I’m seeing people talk about Rose Twitter and I’m thinking, huh. Yeah, I bet at least half of specifically Rose Twitter is Russian bots. Probably half the Bernie Bros were/are Russian bots/operations. People who were legitimately part of these organizations will not stir up shit the way wolves in sheeps’ clothing will. Remember the Russians also got into the NRA. There is NO safe haven, the way these people and their cyberwarfare work, they will be maximally effective on social networks and especially places with user-moderated content (HI REDDIT). Twitter is controlled by a rightwinger Silicon Valley zillionaire already. Of COURSE it is loaded with operatives.
I’m not sorry to be a rose-toting socialist type, but I’m increasingly sorry to be on Twitter, and extra sorry these stupid social networks exist and got everybody so invested in them. That combined with the avarice of the network owners means we’ve got royally fucked, and nobody is safe from getting infiltrated, but it’s super obvious the left has been weaponized. I can’t trust a goddamn thing I see with a rose-twitter handle now that I know what went down. I don’t post about politics on twitter myself.
Dan B
@Fair Economist: Imagine if Hoyer had said: Mueller says his investigation was limited and Congress should follow the leads he has pointed out.
The MSM would go nuts!
Dems to Keep Digging!
Barr Says Pres Not Guilty, Dems Say Hold Your Horses,
Dems Say This Begins Next Phase of Investigation
Use simple language to set the narrative. It has power.
kim powell
The House needs to haul Eric Prince before them and formally charge him with lying to Congress and perjury.
Dan B
@Fair Economist: Your few clear sentences seem like a suitable template for Dem messaging and action. I’d avoid the word impeachment because the public think it means indict. ‘Investigate’ is probably clearer to the general public. And you can launch many and tie them to the 14 others Mueller farmed out. I want the Trump cabal investigated until 2020. Death by 1000 cuts may be far superior, and catch more criminals, than one big blast.
Chris Johnson
From downthread since it seemed to speak for some others:
Watch for places where coordinated posting/voting can suppress information.
reddit r/chapotraphouse is undergoing a FULL COURT PRESS to silence any discussion of any of this. It’s like nothing had happened at all. It’s chilling. Reddit lets you downvote threads and posts… I wonder how r/politics is doing.
I think there’s probably Russians here pushing for the opposite, but hesitantly ‘cos it’s a lot more important to suppress all this than it is to heighten the contradictions. Plus, in so doing they would be aligning with the eventual outcome.
I’m guessing the 12 unknown criminals are all or mostly Senators. If this shit is what they WILL let us see so far, God help us when we work out what really happened. I think Mueller considers himself a dead man walking at this point.
It seems to me like he went, “Fine. My party are a gang of traitors working with the Russians. The only reason my President didn’t is, he’s an idiot, and he absolutely wanted and intended to work with the Russians and got sidelined because he is incompetent even to conspire. Our whole government is compromised and it’s ‘too big to fail’, we can’t possibly survive jailing most of the Senate, the President is literally a traitor and I’m holding the bag for all of it, with the Democrats wanting ME to throw all the bad guys in jail so they don’t have to get their hands dirty.”
“Screw it. I’m a dead man at this point, especially if they want me to testify. I will dump the whole thing in the Democrats’ lap, and THEY can deal with it. I’m out.”
In fairness, I do think he has not nearly enough authority to cope with all this. It’s a massive constitutional crisis and/or civil cold war being groomed to become open civil war.
So in a sense he is right…
Dems must open impeachment proceedings and GET THE REST of that information, PUBLICALLY. And follow through. Do you think Republican outright traitors will agree to impeach the President when most likely a bunch of them are tangled up in all this too? Of course they won’t, because our whole structure of government has failed and pretending otherwise is just enabling a coup.
So impeach anyway, and expose everything publically. It is starkly criminal, starkly treasonous, and we don’t ask criminals for permission to find them guilty. If it leads to Senate Republicans defying justice, make them do it and own it and try to spin it (already happening!). If we have open war within our borders then so be it. Better now than years from now, after the Republicans have dug in and set up their death squads and camps etc etc (obviously some of that is already set up. Projection. We’ve been hearing how they think for years and years and years now)
No more treason.
NotMax
@Chris Johnson
Had already amended the “3 Wishes From a Genie” list to include Facebook, Twitter and the like to never, past present and future, exist.
Still need to find that blasted bottle….
;)
Kathleen
@lamh36: My hunch is that this is a “trial balloon” floated with Nancy Smash’s blessing.
ETA: You made so many excellent points on the previous thread but I was too late to respond there.
Dan B
@lamh36: Hoyer logic: I saw someone hit their thumb with a hammer, and there’s Lizzie Borden. Hammers don’t work. I don’t like hammers. Hammers are scarey!
AOC & Maxine: Step aside and watch us, hammers, screw guns, nail guns, and probably some chainsaws. And a house plus a ton of bricks and a piano.
GregMulka
@TenguPhule:
True. Hindsight is 20-20 and all that.
Kathleen
@ruemara: I contend that 2016 was a coup and Bernie Slanders was complicit. The point of his candidacy then and now is to destroy the Democratic Party and ensure Fascist authoritarian rule. Rethuglicans and their media enablers also love Slanders for that reason. They do not want him to get nomination or presidency because his influence would weaken considerably. They want him right where he is and are compensating him handsomely for his ongoing efforts.
Kathleen
@lamh36: Boom.
Kathleen
@Josie: Because they know people like Chuck Todd has their backs.
Dan B
@Adam L Silverman: From a strategic perspective could Pelosi kneecap the Mercer/Koch/Adelson, or get one while scaring the rest, if Mueller spinoff investigations reveal a Russia-NRA or Russia-Prince-Heartland-API election interference connection?
Mnemosyne
@Kathleen:
Nancy is apparently in Ireland right now, so somebody’s gonna be in BIG TROUBLE for letting Steny off his leash while Nonna was out of town.
Kathleen
@Mnemosyne: I think it’s possible that he was trying to engineer some support for impeachment by playing the bad cop (I watch too much L&O)!
J R in WV
@BlueDWarrior:
Does anyone know what original language this was poorly translated from? What did this guy try to say? Not english to me….
TenguPhule
@J R in WV: I believe he was trying to say “Do enough elected Democrats have the stomach for that is the question.”
And it could be a phone autocorrect issue, some of the other Jackals have mentioned that stuff happens when you use a small phone to type up a wordy comment.