The other day the left (and I will use Oliver Willis’s two posts as a typical example- not to single him out, but just that his links always work and his post was typical), got themselves into an uproar over some comments from some disgruntled soldiers in Iraq. Here is the letter Oliver Willis doesn’t want you to see:
To the Editor:
Re “U.S. Commander in Iraq Says Yearlong Tours Are Option to Combat `Guerrilla’ War” (front page, July 17):
As soldiers serving with the 101st Airborne Division in northern Iraq, we’re frustrated every time we open a newspaper and read articles about the extended deployments of troops overseas and soldiers complaining because they cannot go home.
Nobody forces a soldier into enlisting in the military. It’s a voluntary contract that each soldier signs.
Do we miss our families back in the States? Yes. Are we going to sit around and write letters to Congress asking if we can go home? No.
The majority of us are professionals who will do what it takes to complete the mission, whether it is a wartime or a peacekeeping operation. For every soldier you read about who writes a letter to his Congressional representative imploring the government to bring us home, there are many more who are proud to be performing their duties.
It is a disservice to those who sacrificed their lives to sit around and complain about being here too long.
(Staff Sgt.) CLAY GRIMES
(Cpl.) JESSE ALLEN
Mosul, Iraq, July 18, 2003
Oliver notes in his second post about the complaining soldiers that “I’m not saying these soldiers represent the opinion of all our armed forces in Iraq, but their point of view is just as valid as their gung-ho counterpart.”
Sure- but anyone with half a brain knows there are going to be some disgruntled soldiers (the old maxim is that 10% of the soldiers take up 90% of the time), so why mention the story at all? The answer is because Oliver and others felt it damaged Bush and Rumsfeld. That is it. That is the only reason to have that story posted- not to give some balance to the ‘gung-ho counterpart.’
Oliver
Yes, John, because allah knows you can read my mind. Look – if the media were “fair and balanced” we would hear just as much from soldiers who have no problem with their extended deployment and the ones who want to go home. As it is, we get a constant stream of “I’m proud to serve, and I love the President, and anyone back home who doesn’t agree with this war must be some kind of commie who wants us dead”. This story resonated because it was outside of the company line we’ve been hearing for months on end now.
John Cole
Oliver-
What part of the post where I noted that anyone with half a brain knows that there will be disgruntled soldiers did you miss? Disgruntled and upset soldiers have existed since the beginning of soldiering. Hell, go rent Band of Brothers. Platoon. Name your war film.
The point is, everyone knows there will be disgruntled soldeirs- the only reason you give it any attention is to attack Bush and Rumsfeld. Period.
HH
Got a link for that comment? The mainstream press has been feeding us a steady stream of the soldiers hate it here and things are going shitty from where I sit.
Dean
And so we see the mutation of the press.
Step 1:
We should present a fair and balanced view.
Step 2:
But there is a “company line” wherein most folks take one side. [Note that the existence of a “company line” is an ASSUMPTION, rooted in group think and the absence of polling or other data. What do most soldiers actually think? Cite a poll, please?]
Step 3:
Therefore, we must BALANCE this “company line” by high-lighting those who disagree w/ it.
[False assumption creates off-center starting point.]
Step 4:
Plethora of stories that everybody hates it there, morale sucks, etc.
But, hey, NOW we’re “fair and balanced.”
greg
Boy, Oliver accuses you of knowing what he thinks, then he creates one of the most blatant strawmen I’ve ever seen.
And he talks about the ones who have no problem with their extended deployment and the ones who wanna go home. Hey Oliver, THEY ALL WANNA GO HOME!!
The difference is that some yap about it and some don’t. And, right now, the yappers are getting way more attention.
cameron
Ok, if I’m not mistaken, and please correct me if I am as I’m sure you will, but, from what I have read, this is the second occasion of the Admin. reneging on the sending home of troops.
So, the first time the reneged, I don’t remember any press covered gruff from disgruntled soldiers. I didn’t even recall a first time. So either I missed the Big Bold headlines, or it wasn’t covered much, or it might have been buried on page 14 in my paper.
Now, the second time they reneged, more soldiers are disgruntled, and the ones who were disgruntled before are probably doubley so now. Probably the cause of the vocal dissent. This, added to the campaign of the families of the soldiers to get them home, of course it’s a story. The Admin. says everthing is hunkey-dorey, but the troops on the ground are pissed and scared and say it aint so.
This will go away from the main stream media now that they have there next sensational media story to replace Lacy Peterson, the California(San Diego, I believe) market masacare.
This will reappear though, come September, the month given by Rummy that the troops will be sent home, especially if that order is defered yet again.
So, as the republicans say…..quit you’re whinning.
Pauly
First – you shouldn’t be able to hear the soldiers complain about their commanding officers, Rumsfeld, or the President because it’s against the UCMJ. That’s why the media appears “one-sided” on the issue.
Second – read my post here and see what the situation in Iraq looks like after that.
hereticalideas.com/archives/000899.html
cs
The fact is we are leaving our soldiers in combat situations for longer than we had hoped or planned, and it is perfectly legitimate to discuss the pros and cons of this. Maybe this one newspaper story has been overhyped, but I think the overall issue is serious.
Besides, everyone with 5% of a brain knows that there are going to be soldiers who support the company line, so what was the point of you printing that letter, John? It’s silly to claim that this is information Oliver “doesn’t want you to see” when you quote Oliver conceeding that some soldiers feel that way. Or are you just printing anything that will make Bush look good?
HH
It’s not a newspaper story, it’s an ABC story that they replay at every available opportunity.
cameron – Don’t forget Kobe Bryant…
Dodd
One surefire way to tell if someone has ever actually served in the military is to see that they think grousing by servicemen is newsworthy. Having served, I can assure you that it is not As pasttimes go, not even drinking on liberty compares to bitching as a form of entertainment.
That said, the E4 who said that if Rumseld were there he’d ask for his resignation deserves to be court-martialed. That kind of rank insubordination is unaccaptable and unbecoming of a member of the Armed Forces. But he won’t be, the political fallout would be too high. The members of his unit probably won’t give him a free pass, though. Nor will his commanders, I hope – as a Specialist, he’s half a tick below NCO. But I doubt he’ll make it Corporal any time soon; he’s proven himself unfit for that distinction.
Pauly
You’re absolutely right Dodd.
I’ve seen a story somewhere (somewhere on fox news site) about how they plan on letting the immediate supervisor handle the situation. I don’t think it will go to court-martial – he lucked out by having his words blabbed all over the world.
Birds fly, fish swim, and soldiers bitch.
PG
If Bush supporters want to shut up liberals effectively on the subject of soldiers’ complaints, why not just dig up all the complaints that were made during the Clinton Administration by soldiers posted in the Balkans?
Surely if bitching about one’s duties is so common, there was a proportionate amount of complaining from those fighting and peacekeeping in Kosovo. Particularly as that action was not claimed to have been about serving the U.S. but pretty much just ending the genocide.
Steve Malynn
PG, the Clinton Era military bitching would singe your ears.
It ran the gamut from the obscene to the profane for the entire 8 years, and it incorporated the entire plethora of urban legends/American Spectator allegations/Starr report questions regarding the administration, as well as deployment tempo and actual militry topics, including such topics as:
Lesbians in the white house; pot smoking hippies in the white house; selling/using the Lincoln Bedroom; white house staffers who hate the military; DOD, Navy Dept., AF Dept., Dept of the Army, staffers who hate the military; congresspersons who hate the military; the press who hates the military; sensitivity training; co-ed boot camp; crummy food; crummy pay; crummy weather; and the all time favorite – my recruiter lied to me.
You want to know what really pissed off the troops (moreso than deploying overseas): the Sensitivity training after Tailhook. [This PC crap happened during Bush I] Every unit in the Department of the Navy, every Ship, every shore installation and every USMC unit, spent an entire day talking about the evils of sexual harrassment. Picture a camp in the jungle of Okinawa, 4000 or so Infantry Marines (4th Marine Regiment and 3d Recon Battalion, Camp Schwab)who only see a woman on the weekend when they travel to the other side of the island, talking about treating women equally at work and play. Picture every officer going through their unit’s barracks and confiscating each and every pin-up and centerfold in order to ensure that the working and living environment would not harrass women – who never were allowed in these barracks anyway.
The troops bitch bi-partisanly.
Dodd
Having served during the Clinton misadministration, I can assure you in no uncertain terms that bitching was unremitting. The thing is that, while some of the specifics were different (we didn’t much care for his intensely negative attitude toward the military in general, for instance, or the drastic reduction in funding he insisted upon that cut into training and supplies, making our jobs harder and more dangerous), the fact was no different than any other Administration.
Yes, it is better to serve under a CIC who appreciates you, but military life is still hard, full of long days and but not much genuine appreciation – all for rather piss poor pay. Yet the vast majority are justifiably proud of what they do; the fact that they bitch about it doesn’t change that.
Pauly
And seeing as complaining like that is against the law in the military, there’s not a whole lot of media stories to dig up, hence no way to “shut up the liberals” or whatever was said.
PG
I am afraid that I stated my query unclearly. The bitching that the press is taking the greatest interest in appears to be Iraq-specific. It’s not just “the food sucks” bitching, it’s “this war sucks” bitching.
I’m curious as to whether we had soldiers posted in the Balkans who similarly thought that their mission was hopeless and should be abandoned.
I bitch about my job, but I’ve never suggested that the work in which I’m involved shouldn’t be happening (though some would say it shouldn’t…).
HH
“I’m curious as to whether we had soldiers posted in the Balkans who similarly thought that their mission was hopeless and should be abandoned.”
You better believe that happened too.
LOURDES CUADRA
I HAVE A SON IN IRAQ WHO WILL BE THERE UNTIL JAN. I NEVER WANTED HIM TO JOIN THE ARMY AND NEVER BELEIVED IN THIS WAR. I THINK BUSH IS A CRUEL AND RABID DOG.
Harvey Boaz
I was in the first Gulf War and I disagreed with it just like this one espeacially when the president tells a flat out lie to get us into war I do support our troops but not our government its really something else when congress wants to impeach a president for lying about oral sex but when apresident lies and gets our troops killed and they don’t do anything about it that tells you alot about our government as far as I’m concerned the government is no differnt than hitler thinking the rest of the world should live like we do and the U.S. and if that countrys government don’t agree they sanction that country and if that don’t work then they send our troops in to take over
coco
Is it really worthy being in the army at all?
jo
Are you kidding me? Hitler? So only Americans should have FREEDOM? Non Americans are worthless and deserve to be tortured?