Since I seem to be making a career off muddled posts, let me try once more to clarify this post:
I, JOHN COLE, IN NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, THINK THAT TED KENNEDY’S COMMENT WAS RACIST.
After all, two of the judges Kennedy called Neanderthal are as white as rice. I think it is rather clear he merely considers them neanderthal because of their conservatism (mind you, that is offensive enough, and part of the problem with politics these days).
What I do think is that if ANY Republican Senator, and not just Trent Lott, had uttered the same remark (about four Democratic nominees, two of whom are minorities), all of the following would happen (and spare me the neanderthal is just an old name for staunchn conservatives meme. This is the Democratic party that had people trying to paint Bill Frist as a racist because he didn’t sharpen pencils before handing them out in an African American community. If any Republican had called any minority a neanderthal, I think we all know what the reaction would be):
1.) Julian Bond would be screaming that all Republicans are like the Taliban.
2.) Atrios would call every Republican in the Senate a proxy racist for having known the Republican or at one time spoken at an event in which the Senator was in attendance.
3.) Dave Niewert would write a 62 page exegesis using the comment as proof of the rise of fascism within the Republican party.
4.) Matt Yglesias would write a post titled “Can There Be A Decent Right?”
5.) TBOGG and Jesse at Pandagon would both simultaneously combust, with their last words involving Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh.
6.) Al Sharpton would organize a boycott on the state the Senator represents and incite African-American New Yorkers to murder tourists from that state should they happen to venture into Crown Heights.
7.) Oliver Willis would have nonstop Bigot Eruption Updates.
8.) Bill Clinton would claim that talk radio is responsible.
9.) Eric Alterman would write a book claiming this is another example of what happens because of the Conservative media.
10.) Jesse Jackson would examine the Senator’s tax statements and then try to shake down any company the Senator holds stock in while his son would repeat everything his father says, and Beltway reporters would coo about how moderate his son is compared to his firebrand father.
11.) NPR would launch a 62 part series on race relations in the United States.
12.) The Congressional Black Caucus (minus any black Republicans) would call for meetings to increase racial sensitivity.
13.) Bill Moyers would blame George Bush for advancing a far right-wing agenda.
14.) The New Hampshire Gazette would claim this is not surprising because Prescott Bush had ties to Nazi’s, while Joe Conason would state this is unfair and that there are plenty of other reasons to hate the Bush family.
15.) The NAACP would launch a new round of the James Byrd dragging commericals.
16.) The mainframe at the Nation would explode because every writer would at once do a lexis-nexis search for ‘Republican + White + Supremacist.’
17.) Jim Hightower would blame Reagan, while CBS would edit their miniseries ‘The Reagans’ to include numerous scenes of the former President muttering ‘niggers’ any time he though no one was looking.
17.) Charles Schumer would accidentally trample to death a Senate intern while rushing to and from every available camera.
18.) Tom Daschle would be deeply, deeply disappointed. Or saddened.
19.) Within a week, my mother, a registered Democrat, would get a fund-raising letter from Terry McAuliffe asking for money to fight the racist monolith that is the GOP.
20.) Nina Totenberg would blame Clarence Thomas.
The tragic thing about all this is that I am only slightly exaggerating.
Add your prediction to what would happen in the comments.
*** Update ***
Since the liberal trolls are out in force, and refuse to understand the broader point of this context, let’s try this on for size.
FORGET THE WORD NEANDERTHAL.
What if Sen. Don Nickles stated, in the middle of a twenty minute speech about why he is not going to vote for four Democrat judicial nominees, two of whom are minorities, the following:
“Clinton’s nominees are extreme liberals who have no respect for the law and wish to legislate from the bench. Those people should not become judges. They do not share our values. I will do everything I can to keep their primitive viewpoints off the bench.”
Is there anyone who seriously doubts that the left would not seize on the words “Those people” and “our values” and “primitive viewpoints” would not be immediately trumpeted by the far left as code talk for racists, and then the meme would gain legs with the more mainstream left, until even moderates like Matt Yglesias would reference the new meme, even though he doesn’t believe it? This is the type of bile the left (go through my list above- you know which ones would manufacture this stuff) is constantly peddling to tar the entire coservative movement as racist. Granted they have their enablers on the right in the form of some actual racists, and jackasses like Haley Barbour and Trent Lott, but let’s be serious here. This is exactly what happens all the time and cheapens any damned debate on race. Remember, this is the water buffalo crowd we are talking about- the professionally offended and the professionally sensitive, all for maximum political game.
Kimmitt
Republicans still would not use the word “Neanderthal” to describe far-right conservatives, so there would still be only one possible interpretation.
Gregory Litchfield
Kimmitt – Color me surprised. You essentially ignore the question. Let’s try this again. If a Republican had characterized liberal court nominees as “neanderthals”, what do you think the Democrats/Mass Media would lead with the very next day? What would Krugman, Dowd, Conason, et.al. write about furiously for the next news cycle?
I’m sure if you rub a couple of synapses together, you can figure out what the likely outcome would be. Whether you can admit it or not is another matter.
John Cole – This has to be the end-all-to-be-all of posts on Democrat hypocrisy. I hope you save this one and break it out again the next time something like this occurs. Given the mounting hysteria and bloodlust on the part of the left, you might need it on a weekly basis.
I agree that the Republican party is playing dirty politics by trying to play the race card. I also happen to think that it will never work, anyway. Those segments of the voting populace that are most receptive to “race card” tactics are so thoroughly indebted to the Democratic party that they will never consider changing their vote, regardless of what flies out of the mouth of Kennedy.
Let’s not forget that the only Klansman currently serving in the legislative branch, and almost certainly the last to ever do so, is a Dem. Let’s not forget the the party that opposed the Reconstruction, and won solid majorities in the South because of it, were the Dems. Let’s not forget that every time a minority Republican comes up for a post, anywhere, they are assailed as race traitors, Uncle Tom’s, Oreos, etc.
Frankly Mr. Cole, I’m surprised that for someone who writes so intelligently, you still haven’t grasped the fundamental truth of race relation in America:
“Minorities can only be liberals. Conservative minorities are merely white people by another name.”
Kimmitt
If a Republican had characterized a minority liberal nominee as a “Neanderthal,” there could only be one possible interpretation.
The word “Neanderthal” is used as a perjorative against far-right conservatives and as racist perjorative (much less commonly) against minorities, especially African-Americans. If the former meaning is excluded, the latter meeting is the only one possible.
Get over your pathetic persecution complexes. This is about context, not race.
John Cole
You just don’t get it, Kimmitt. You, yourself, are on record calling essentially everyone in the GOP racist.
Say Santorum stood up and said “We refuse to allow a vote on unqualified candidates.” All the people listed in this post would have reacted similarly- ‘unqualified’ would just magically become a new code word for minority. Hell, they could say ‘Certain judges do not pass muster for these positions,’ and you and Dave Niewert and the NAACP would all make sure that everyone knows that the new meaning of ‘certain judges’ is minority judges.
It isn’t a persection complex when whatever you say and do, Democrats accuse you of racism. There is racial baggage in both parties- I am sorry you can’t seem to deal with the games your side has played and recognize how you are just as complicit for cheapening he debate.
Ricky
**The word “Neanderthal” is used as a perjorative against far-right conservatives and as racist perjorative (much less commonly) against minorities, especially African-Americans.**
Well, we now have confirmation that words mean different things when used by a lefty than by a righty.
That explains why so much coming from the lapdog left contains a dearth of logic – it’s based on the assumption that words mean whatever the speaker wishes them to.
Boy, the meaning of “is” became even funnier. (if you wonder why the left continues to lose elections, Kimmitt, consider the lack of logic in your statement).
markus
Where do you get this from:
ay Santorum stood up and said We refuse to allow a vote on unqualified candidates.” All the people listed in this post would have reacted similarly- ‘unqualified’ would just magically become a new code word for minority.
are you suffering from paranoid delusions (please see a specialist) or is there any shred of evidence that any of these people would react in this manner to a -possibly wrong on factual grounds- statement like the one you suggested?
John Cole
I am suffering from 33 years of not being a bigot, not being racist, having plenty of minority friends and *GASP* even a date or two, yet every time a Republican criticizes something involving a minority candidate, being called a racist.
It isn’t paranoia- the left really does play these games. Like I said, both parties have serious racial baggage, but it is clear which side has damaged the public debate about race more in our recent history.
markus
let’s be clear. Statements like “Republicans are racist” are obviously and without qualification wrong. However, I do not recall any of the bloggers you mentioned make such an accusation. Please bring some evidence to my attention.
Next, I can’t remember any post where someone accused you personally of racism, please bring said post to my attention.
Finally, there’s the matter of enabling racism and coddling with the likes of the CCC, where I’d say (a) everyone who does this should be fair game no matter what side he is on and (b) arguably Republicans have a worse track record. I mean, is it really just my liberal bias that makes me remember this piece of anti-Semitic drivel against Soros which used to be up on GOPUSA.com?
markus
@ ricky:
your failure, to understand kimmitt is a remarkable demonstration of you ignorance in this matter or your unwillingness to understand. Let me re-phrase it so might get it.
The N-word is used as a perjorative against African-Americans by white supremacists and as slang reference to another person by a certain subset of African-Americans. If the former meaning is excluded (e.g. by the fact that the speaker himself is African-American), the latter meeting is the only one possible.
John Cole
Markus- What part of this post do you not undertsand as a joke.
THe point I was making isthat there is a clear double standard for discussions about race, and that regardless of what actual word a Republican used (let’s say Orrin Hatch stood up and said “Some of those Democrat judges have primitive political positions’), those who love to throw the race card would not hesitate to bend over backwards to find a way that the word primitive was somehow a code word pejoraative regarding the two minority candidates.
If you can not even admit that, this whole discussion is pointless.
Yes, republicans have not always been right on race, and yes Democrats have quite frequently unfairly branded Republicans as racist.
And, btw- Atrios and others have frequently connected the dots, stating that Olympia Snowe is just as racist as Trent Lott because she did, after all, vote for him to be Senate Majority Leader. “A vote for Olympia Snowe is a vote for Trent Lott,” the rhetoric goes.
If you are not going to be honest about the bullshit peddled on both sides, no wonder you can not debate this seriously and can not see the humor in what I wrote here.
Pootie Tang
and spare me the neanderthal is just an old name for staunchn conservatives meme
Why spare you this? George Bush told a du Pont supporter during the 1980 presidential campaign “Go back to your cave!” Referring to the far right as primitive or neandrethal is (or at least was) common even among conservatives!
Also, I seem to remember Congress refusing to ratify a far greater number of Clinton nominees, many of whom were minorities, yet was there an obsession about the race of the nominees? Why didn’t Republicans confirm them?
And thanks for pulling out the “but I have black friends” argument. Hadn’t heard that one in a while.
John Cole
And thanks for pulling out the “but I have black friends” argument. Hadn’t heard that one in a while.
My god you people are droll.
Could you not tell from the way I wrote that (the *GASP*) that I was clearly making fun of the statement “I have plenty of black friends.”
The point (which apparently went unnoticed), is that while you are clearly stuck in the 1940’s regarding your view of the right and race, the rest of us have moved on. Jeebus.
You are either terminally stupid or willfully malicious. Perhaps both. Piss off, miscreant.
markus
>those who love to throw the race card would not hesitate to bend over backwards to find a way that the word primitive was somehow a code word
For “those who love to throw the race card” this is self evidently true and I’ll happily admit that any X who love to do Y will likely do Y for all X,Y element N. Care to explain who these people are?
Next, we agree “republicans have not always been right on race, and yes Democrats have quite frequently unfairly branded Republicans as racist.”
except for the “quite frequently” part, though nonetheless it of course does happen. Now, we’re both obviously biased, and each of use bestows more selective attention on racism from the right and phoney charges of racism respectively. We could debate which side is more guilty of racism (IMO Republicans by a wide margin) and of phoney charges (IMO Democrats, but Republicans are catching up) and we might then debate which is more damaging (IMO actual racism) and whether all phoney charges (from both sides) are necessarily motivated by politics or whether a misguided zeal to protect minorities might not also play a role. Since this debate is unlikely (IMO) to lead to an agreeable solution, I propose (in fact I’ve done so all along) to focus on individual allegations of racism and letting the chips fall (true or phoney) where they may.
Your sweeping generalisations about liberals, however, are not helpful in any way, and are in fact the new equivalent on the right of the old “all Republicans are racists” idiocy on the left. You ought to be smart enough to realise this.
addendum:
– I do think it is a disgrace that Lott still is a respectable member of the Republicans, however, I’d be interested in reading the Atrios post you had in mind. While he’s positively nutty in his partisan zeal at times, I also found he’s frequently the subject of phoney charges (mirror, mirror).
– I saw the humour, but was under the impression you were also trying to make a serious argument. My bad for mixing anything up (though where?), your bad for mixing the two.
– the double standard argument is only applicable once it has been shown that there are no group differences, compare the N-word and African-Americans
Pootie Tang
My dear Mr. Cole
History did not begin last week. More minority Clinton judge nominees WERE rejected than Bush nominees, and Republicans did say they were unqualified, yet somehow there wasn’t this hissyfit about race coming from Democrats.
And neandrethal, cave dweller, and so on ARE words that have been used, even by Republicans, to describe people on the far right, i.e. the people that are against change, progress, etc.
John Cole
My Dear Mr./Mrs. Pootie Tang:
History did not start yesterday, you are correct. That is why I find this statement hysterical:
yet somehow there wasn’t this hissyfit about race coming from Democrats.
I didn’t even have to go to google to remember any specific cases. Two words:
Ronnie White.
Slartibartfast
I’m a little dismayed to see that the loyal opposition is toting around little in the way of grey matter. Gosh, Republicans are racist. Yes, we really didn’t want to Free Mumia because we’re interested in keeping the black man down.
As Freud once said (well, he ought to have said it): Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
David Neiwert
Oh please. Your presumption is almost as asinine as your original post.
Everyone I know has a pretty clear understanding of what calling someone a “Neanderthal” means. It refers to the backwardness of their thinking, not their race. Even had a Republican or, for that matter, a Bo Gritz type referred to someone in that fashion, anyone suggesting it was racist would and should be dismissed as an idiot.
Now, if they were to talk about “taking the bone out of their nose” …
Scott
@ Markus:
You think it’s disgusting that Lott is still a respectable member of Congress? The Democrats pay homage to Al Sharpton and treat him as a legitimate candidate for President and you’re disgusted about Trent Lott? Holy shit, talk about the mote in someone else’s eye…
Bruce
This thread is more evidence as to why liberal talk radio will never, ever get off the ground. Those poor leftists have no sense of humor. And no memory of history. And no logical arguments only personal attacks.
greg
People are missing the point here, which is hard to believe since John spelled it out in pretty big letters.
he’s not saying calling someone a Neanderthal is racist, he’s saying that had a Repulican done so, Democrats and their media friends would not have turned down the opportunity to demagogue it and CLAIM that it was racist.
The difference isn’t that difficult to understand, or maybe for some people it is.
And Scott, I couldn’t agree with you more about Sharpton. I’ll probably be voting for Bush next November, however i’ve already said that I’ll immediately send a $100 donation to the campaign of any Democratic candidate that calls Sharpton on his past during one of the debates. But, the Ben Franklin in my wallet is safe since they never will.
John Cole
Thanks Greg.
Dan
Yep, two meanings for a word. One is “old fashioned,” which is similar to conservative, but insulting. The other is a racial term, used to insult minorities.
If you are using the term about somewho is not a conservative, you are most likely using it in the other way, right? And that other way is, well, racist, right?
Dave
So, someone must be a Conservative (big C is inferred by the tone of debate) for ‘Neanderthal’ to be referring to that someone being ‘old-fashioned’?
Dave
Argh, I spoke unclearly.
If someone is not a Big-C Conservative, then calling them a neanderthal must be racist?
Because it appears that the left-folks in this thread have declared that referring to someone as ‘old-fashioned’ in an insulting way can only happen when the target is Conservative, and no self-defined Liberal (or minority Democrat) can, by definition, hold ‘old-fashioned’ views.
If this is not the case, then, in my POV, Kimmit and company are too busy reacting to bother framing their statements logically or even thinking through the logic of their position.
markus
@ Scott: I only read up on Sharpton in retrospect recently, and found the -by now familiar- mix of overblown charges and bad excuses, but from what I’ve learned I’d say you’re definitely right calling Sharpton an equal disgrace.
However, AFAIK anyone can run for presidential candidate, and I seem to remember a certain Republican …
Look, this is getting no-one anywhere, which is why I merely added that comment so as to gloss over John’s point on Lott. So yes, point taken, Sharpton is a disgrace, but I’m definitively not interested in playing tit-for-tat.
Guipo
I’m not racist, I hate all people.
markus
“so as not to gloss over” of course, sorry, got lost in changing the verb.
Kimmitt
“You, yourself, are on record calling essentially everyone in the GOP racist.”
Actually, I said that the GOP is the Party which antiblack racists vote for, which is a little different.
I’ve come to moderate my views somewhat. If a moderate GOP member were to call the nominees “Neanderthals,” context would indicate that he or she would also be referring to their political orientation, not their race.
But if, say, Rick Santorum did (not that he would, because he isn’t the kind of guy who either views far-righters as “Neanderthals” or uses racist slurs (just antigay ones), so it wouldn’t occur to him to use the wording), there would still be only one possible interpretation.
Of course, Santorum could say, “These nominees are just too conservative for me. I’m pretty far right, but those guys really are Neanderthals,” at which point context would make his remarks unambiguous.
greg
markus,
If the Republican you’re referring to is David Duke, he was basically booted out of the race by the other candidates and the RNC.
he didn’t have his ass kissed onstage by the other candidates, he wasn’t greeted with “amen brother” every time he opened his mouth, and he was any credibility whatsoever. sharpton gets all that because:
1) the other Dems are scared of offending what little constituency Sharpton has
2) They love having Sharpton in the race because he can say the really nutty stuff about Bush that the others can’t.
Dan
Wow, Dave, you just reversed the argument. Good work.
When someone calls a conservative a neanderthal, it is at least plausible they are referring to political beliefs being old fashioned. It is fairly obvious that this was the case for Kennedy.
I think we are all pretty clear on that, right?
The argument is that if a conservative used the word “neanderthal” about a liberal, it would be much more likely that they were referring to race, not ideology. This won’t always be the case. For example, I could see some old school marxists being called neanderthals. Or even some people who are still really all for the “new deal.” But those would be really rare instances.
But it seems we are now to ignore the word “neanderthal” and look at the word “primative.” Very well. The word simply doesn’t make sense in any way other then racially in that sentance. Show me one dictionary that shows any link between the concept “liberal” and “primative.” It is obvious in the first part of that fake quote that he is talking about ideology, not race. But then he veers off topic, and hits race.
Veeshir
The best part about this comment thread is that it is pretty much proving the assertion in the original post. I mean, all the usual suspects are pretty much saying that Democrats can’t be racist but Republicans are. Forgetting of course that the Democrats have always been for segregating people becuase of race. Notice that the Civil War happened almost solely because of a Republican president. The Civil Rights Amendment was passed over the Democrats every attempt to stop it (Yes Strom was a Dem but changed, but Byrd was and still is a Dem)and now they are for Affirmative Action, which basically says that certain minorities are too stupid to compete with Asians and whitey.
I would just like to thank Kimmitt and company for providing me with a good laugh.
Very funny.
Kimmitt
“Forgetting of course that the Democrats have always been for segregating people becuase of race.”
Way to rewrite the history of the Dixiecrats, who fled the Democratic Party due to Johnson’s unrelenting push for the Civil Rights Acts and found a home in the Republican Party due to Nixon’s Southern Strategy.
Kimmitt
“All the people listed in this post would have reacted similarly- ‘unqualified’ would just magically become a new code word for minority. ”
Well, that is the ongoing problem — bigots couch their bigotry in code words, so it’s hard to keep up with the lingo.
Nonetheless, the Party of Haley Barbour is going to have to deal with the fact that it has a credibility gap when it comes to race. Simply put, when the Dixiecrats joined you, you inherited the racist awfulness that we used to have to account for. Further, the fact that the Dixiecrats did join you leads people to wonder (rightly) what it is about the Republican Party which makes it more attractive to them than the Democratic Party.
Personally, I think that it’s a little about race and a lot about antigay bigotry, these days. But then, I’m not an Indian-American running for Governor who has to run phone banks convincing people that he’s Christian instead of Hindu, so it’s okay to vote for him even if he does have a good tan. And he lost anyway.
Juliette
I’ve had many black friends and some black dates. My ex-husband was black. As a matter of fact all my relatives are black–um except for some related by marriage.
And guess what? I don’t think that big, fat, stupid, drunken, criminal Leftist demagogue, Ted Kennedy, made a racist statement either. It was about the conservative nature of the candidates, nothing more.
Creno
Niccceee pagee