Sometimes I really think the NY Times views the United States as a rogue nation:
And it is critical that the dictator be given a fair and open trial to exact justice for his crimes, to give some solace to the people he terrorized and to give pause to other despots. The trial must be above any suspicion that it is merely an exercise in retribution or propaganda. While every effort should be made to maximize Iraqi involvement, Iraq’s judicial institutions are too weak to handle the case. Although last week’s creation of an Iraqi war crimes tribunal was a promising step, we would suggest this trial be conducted in Iraq under United Nations auspices by international and Iraqi judges. A tribunal picked by Americans would lack legitimacy.
If were up to me, he would be tied, standing up, in the back of a flatbed truck, driven through all the heavily populated Shia areas of Iraq, and then delivered to the Kurds.
Moriarty
The UN at large did nothing to remove Hussein from power, nothing to rebuild Iraq after years of his looting and barbarism and nothing to effect his capture. Yet the UN should play a role in deciding his fate?
Give it a rest, NYT. The Iraqi _people_ are quite able to consider the fate of Hussein – unassisted, thank you. And frankly, if the screeching from DU is any indication, it matters not one bit how “legitimate” an Iraqi court may be; we’ll still have to listen to “conspiracy” and “propaganda” arguments.
I just hope they hang him. Bullets are spendy and rope is reusuable.
Sebastian Holsclaw
The UN made a decision on his fate when it refused to authorize a war against him. Their decision was that he could remain in power and that they could do business with him.
Kimmitt
The UN is a dispute-resolution mechanism, not a military arm. It might be a decent choice to try Hussein, but we’re really just better off patterning our actions after Nuremburg — pick something truly heinous he did, get him tried and convicted fairly quickly, and execute the son of a bitch. Let’s get at least something good out of these hundreds of American lives, hundred-fifty billion dollars, and squandering of worldwide goodwill.
Moriarty
The UN is _not_ a military arm? Keep that in mind should you encounter a Korean War veteran. It will earn you an earful.
John Cole
Let’s get at least something good out of these hundreds of American lives, hundred-fifty billion dollars, and squandering of worldwide goodwill.
The left’s dyspepsic disconnect in full view. Something good already has come out of this- Saddam is no longer in power.
Peter
reality to warmongers – The United States of America is far and away the most rogue of all nations – it just so happens that we have the power not to be prosecuted for being so. But don’t believe me, ask Robert McNamara. The U.S. is not a rogue nation you say? Don’t believe me, ask Richard Perle.
sonyclassics.com/fogofwar/
english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6B65F4C9-3C3C-49B6-96CD-B111ADA2315B.htm
Brian
check out a hilarious mocking of the NY Times at the Tomfoolery of the Highest Order blog at southphillyattitude.com
What we can expect in the near future from the press is all right there.
samkit
reality to “doves:” get a job.
mark
Saddam deserves all the respect that Mussolini’s people afforded him back in WW2.
Mike
Wait a minute here, John: “sometimes?”
Moe Lane
“The left’s dyspepsic disconnect in full view. Something good already has come out of this- Saddam is no longer in power.”
Eh, cut Kimmitt a little slack. At least he wants the son of a bitch dead.
Random Numbers
Bullets may be spendy, but they can aution off the spent brass and make a mint.
Random Numbers
AARGH! Aution = Auction
Hit post before preview!
Kimmitt
“The UN is _not_ a military arm? Keep that in mind should you encounter a Korean War veteran. It will earn you an earful.”
The Korean War illustrates my point completely. The US used the UN to create a multinational defense force, but the UN had no armies to dispatch to Korea. It had no taxing authority with which to levy troops, no draft boards, no boot camps. And if the PRC had been on it at the time, it would have been unable to even bless US intervention.
“Something good already has come out of this- Saddam is no longer in power.”
Saddam is only permanently out of power once he is dead. Let’s get to it.
Andrew Ian Dodge
Yes, let the Kurds try him. That would be most amusing to watch.
Catsy
If were up to me, he would be tied, standing up, in the back of a flatbed truck, driven through all the heavily populated Shia areas of Iraq, and then delivered to the Kurds.
Fortunately for civilization, the prosecution of tyrants is not up to you. Equally fortunate is that Bush has decided to take the high road on this, and make it clear that the Iraqis themselves will prosecute Saddam in accordance with international law.
I’m all for the ICC, but it lacks jurisdiction in Iraq, and cannot prosecute crimes committed before it was formed. And any kind of military or “Nuremberg” tribunal would be “victor’s justice” that would further erode the principles of international law and civilized conduct.
I disagree with many of Bush’s decisions in this ill-planned and ill-executed occupation, but today he has absolutely done the right thing.
John Cole
Kimmitt- when we agree, we agree.
Kong
I do not trust the concept of ‘international law’. It is not civilized: Murdering Dictators are among the people who set the ICC up…
That and I just don’t like the idea of judges not being accountable to the population they are over. Look at the mess our Supremes are making of the nation; that on a global scale would be horrific.
Andrew Lazarus
Alas, I disagree with Kimmitt. It seems to me that if we could give Himmler and Goering fair trials, we can manage the same for Saddam, a much lesser species of tyrant.
Historical Note: The UN got into the Korean War because the Soviet delegation had walked out in protest, and didn’t use its veto. They never made that (BIG) mistake again. So even before the PRC got in on the UN, its participation was a fluke.
Rick Reed
Himmler never got to trial. He swallow cyanide upon capture.
No reason Saddam can’t be competently and fairly tried by Iraqis, and if wish exists, have him bundled off to Kuwait to stand there, as well.
Cordially…
Dean
I find references by the Left to the Korean War and the UN very amusing.
On the one hand, the likes of I.F. Stone and Richard Falk have long held the Korean War as somehow ILlegitimate, despite UN sanction, because Harry Truman didn’t go and get a declaration of war, but instead sent troops there by Presidential order. Imperial Presidency and all that. (Stone, iirc, also found the whole anti-Communism aspect questionable, but that’s a separate issue.)
And, as Andrew notes, the only reason the UN okayed the war was b/c the Soviets weren’t there. Now, isn’t the logical corollary that if the Soviets had been present, then there’d have been no intervention? Does that mean that the Korean War would have been illegitimate if the UN hadn’t okayed the war? Because that most certainly would have been a “unilateral” intervention (as it was initially), made up of a coalition of the willing, plus those who were dependent on US aid. Sound familiar??
Plus, of course, it was a long war, it kept a buncha generals and despots in power. Why, who knows where South Korea would be, if only we’d NOT intervened, eh?
Lonewacko: I'm Still Blogging Across America
They’re just following the demands of their tranzi masters.
Kimmitt
I didn’t want to get into a larger question of the legitimacy of the Korean War — I merely wished to point out that the UN is an organization which has power only when there is consensus. There is a consensus that Saddam ought to be tried fairly for his crimes, and the UN is therefore a possible avenue for doing so. That’s it.
Jon H
My favored punishment would be to put him back in the hole, then construct a public latrine over the top.
Dave
No reason Saddam can’t be competently and fairly tried by Iraqis, and if wish exists, have him bundled off to Kuwait to stand there, as well.
That’s a good point — is there any reason he couldn’t be tried in multiple courts? I mean, we have a serial killer here in KC that faces charges / conviction in both KS and MO, and the DC snipers are being tried in MD and VA.
So why not try him at a UN tribunal, an Iraqi court, and a Kuwaiti court? What the hell, throw in a court in Tehran while we’re at it. At least one of them is bound to sentence him to public beheading.
charles austin
Jeez, they make retribution for the greatest mass murderer of the last half of the 20th century sound like a bad thing.