First, some quotes:
Dean’s stance on the war and civil unions are actually outliers on his past, which seems to be rife with fiscal moderation and mainstream stances on the hot button issues of the day.
Indeed, I think the case can be made more strongly — insofar as taxes are (morally) objectionable, it is more objectionable for the current generation to increase taxes on future people than it is for them to increase taxes on themselves. This argument, at any rate, ought to be just as persuasive to true, dyed-in-the-wool conservatives and libertarian hawks as it is to orthodox anti-war libertarians.
Some will retort that “the Democrats” aren’t any better about this, and I’ll happily agree that many aren’t, much as many Republicans are better than Bush on this score. On the other hand, many Democrats — notably Dean, who’s real quite fanatical about it — really are much better.
Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean has been portrayed by his Democratic presidential opponents as a man who is too angry, too loud and too Liberal. But according to a new book by the reporters who covered his administration, Dean’s fiscal record and policies were those of a textbook conservative
James Joyner
Although you have to admire the fiscal restraint shown by unilaterally canceling the paychecks of his staff for two weeks.
Steve
Anybody who thinks Gov. Dean is a fiscal conservative is a kool-aid drinking twit.
Dean wants to repeal Bush’s tax cuts then spend all that revenue of his health care program.
So…if we have a $500 billion dollar deficit. We raise say $100 billion by repealing the tax cuts. Then we spend the $100 billion on a health care program what do we have?
A $500 BILLION DOLLAR DEFICITS YOU FUCKING IDIOTS.
Sorry about the yelling there, but I don’t see what is so hard to understand about this. It is Goddamned arithmetic people learned in 2nd & 3rd grade.
By my count Dean’s policies, assuming they are all enacted, would increase the deficit by about $160 billion or so. That is not fiscal restraint.
Further, as you noted with Bush’s Prescription Drug plan, Dean’s health care program will cost more than he is claiming.
I can’t believe people are being so damn stupid about this.
bg
Steve, I see no point in screaming like an angry drunk about this. It doesn’t much look like he’ll win the nomination, does it?
The point about Dean’s fiscal conservatism was always with regard to his record in Vermont. He (rather famously as I remember) always insisted on having a balanced budget, etc.
Comparing Dean’s fiscal record while governor to his campaign spending is a bit myopic, isn’t it? And comparing it to Bush’s election coffers is fairly silly too. Didn’t Bush have an ungodly amount of cash on hand? I would have been impressed if he’d managed to spend 3/4 of it.
HH
There’s as much to the “fiscal conservative” meme as there is to the “media was out to get Dean with the speech” meme.
Perry
Let’s look at Dean’s so-called conservativism:
“[H]e raised the sales tax, cigarette tax, property tax, corporate tax and hotel tax, leaving Vermont — based on the amount of tax revenue collected as a percentage of personal income — the second highest-taxed state in the union.”
That’s from Larry Elder’s latest column (townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/le20040129.shtml).
Dean is a lot of things, but conservative is NOT one of them.
John Cole
I was kinda just having fun with it…
Jay
And for crissakes, exactly how difficult is it to manage a budget for a state that has a total of around 600,000 people?
andrew
Dean is DEAD. let’s move on.
Steve
The problem isn’t Dean its those who think he is a fiscal conservative. That is what is so annoying. These people wouldn’t know what a fiscal conservative was if he (or she) came up and bit them on the ass.
All the Democrats basically want to spend alot more money than they want to raise in revenues. Nobody is saying, “No Child Left Behind needs to be cut.” No they are complaining it isn’t funded. They all want health care. They all think prescription drugs for the elderly are great. When you look at their proposals for raising revenue there just isn’t enough there to cover all this.
Now maybe they all have secret plans to raise hundreds of billions in taxes, but if they do I think it is a good idea if they tell us.
Anyway you break this down Dean is a liar. Either he really is a fiscal conservative and his policy positions from his campaign are false. Or he isn’t a fiscal conservative, but is lying about being one. Not a big deal, IMO, in that a politician lying is like a fish living in water. What is annoying is that so many intelligent people can’t see this despite all the information being there on Dean’s website, the various news reports, debates, etc.
Ksec
Q So whats a fiscal conservative.
A; one who promises to cut spending and then runs up huge deficits. Like Reagan and Bush 1 did. Now Bush two is busy running it to record highs.
Fiscal conservative is like saying Honest Republican. The two words dont go together. The Dems are the real fiscal champs.
Slartibartfast
Ever consider doing that routine stand-up, Ksec?
Jon H
Perry writes: “”[H]e raised the sales tax, cigarette tax, property tax, corporate tax and hotel tax, leaving Vermont — based on the amount of tax revenue collected as a percentage of personal income — the second highest-taxed state in the union.””
I’m not sure measuring that against personal income is a good idea, given that a sizable amount of those taxes are paid by tourists in the state for the skiing, not by residents.
Certainly, the hotel tax would hit such people more than it would hit state residents.
Surely you can hardly criticize them for wanting to get the most money out of their natural resource (ski mountains)?
MommaBear
If memory serves, the state constitution in Vermonet forbids a deficit budget, so Deany-Weenie cannot take the credit for that, either.
Jeremy Denk
Idiocy all over this board. The comparison between Dean’s political philosophy (i.e. fiscal conservative) and how he allocates money during his campaign is completely ridiculous… They have NOTHING to do with each other. End of story. Only a right wing jerk would try to put together apples and oranges like that.
bittern
Jeremy are you spoofing Dean defenders? He “allocated” his funds right out the window, and with as little benefit. Including what I sent him. If MY memory serves, Dean’s campaign claimed to be the only one with sufficient funds to campaign in all the states. What happened to that plan? What ought to be more disturbing to you, the Governor himself was repeatedly making the point that he was personally thrifty, that the campaign would be thrifty, and that that was a demonstration of how thriftily he’d run the government. Oops?
MommaBear you beautiful trash-talker you. Your memory serves us all poorly. Mine says VT is about the only state that DOESN’T forbid a budget deficit. What then?