So am I going through the Corner, catching up on the posts, and I see this gem:
ROD PAIGE IS WRONG, OF COURSE
Unfortunately, Al Qaeda isn’t nearly as bad at terrorism as the NEA is at educating our children.
Sometimes people are visual learners. For those who don’t get why Rod Paige’s remarks are offensive, here is one more attempt for me to help you:
These are teachers and likely members of the NEA:
This is typical of who they work with every day:
These are terrorists or terrorist supporters:
This is who they probably work with:
These are their ultimate goals:
Unfortunately, a typical weekend at a disco in Israel
The World Trade Center
Now do you understand why Paige’s remarks are offensive?
little h harry
Well, that’s about the most devasting post I’ve read in a while…
Bains
Visceral, poignant, succinct
BJK
What planet are you from? The only thing teachers want is more pay for less work. They already make more money for 8 months of work than most people make in 18 months. Once they get in, the union takes care of them, they don’t do shit, and our kids suffer. Wake up and smell the chalk dust. I had 1 good teacher in 8 years of grade school. My kids have probably had 1 good teacher between the 2 of them. Give me a break.
Tman
Words of annoying LLL friend after reading/looking at the following post- “yeah, BUT…….”
Sound of the room after inane absurd morally relativistic comment- “WHAPPITY WHAP -WHAPWHAPWHAP-” ……….
I am thoroughly tired of moral relativists….they make my clue bat tired…….
Tim
Tman
BJK’s answer to “Now do you understand why Paige’s remarks are offensive?” is no…..Clue bat gets warmed up YET AGAIN…….will it ever end?
Hey MR BJK genius, how many terrorist attacks have the NEA perpetrated?
The answer, as spoken by my trusty clue bat is “WHAPPITY WHAP -WHAPWHAPWHAP-” …..
Tim
Tim
carpeicthus
I’ll give credit where it’s due
Random Numbers
I take it you think Paige went a little overboard on the hyperbole?
Skip Perry
Great post.
Ellen
Have you ever worked in a classroom? I volunteer every Friday in my child’s classroom. I would say that teachers have an extremely difficult job. They are not only teachers, but counselors, physchologists, mediators and a host of other things. I had no idea how hard their job was until I started helping out last school yard. Comments about them wanting less hours for more pay are uncalled for. I suggest that every parent spend some time in their kids room helping out and you will get a totally different perspective. I certainly couldn’t be a teacher. I simply don’t have what it takes. Hell, my five years in the US Army was easier than a year as a teacher.
SDN
In 1983 the National Commission on Education, Glenn T. Seaborg, Chairman, wrote “If a foreign nation had imposed this system of education on the United States we would rightly consider it an act of war.”
Who is the organization most responsible for imposing and maintaining that system? The NEA would have to be a leading candidate. If you disagree with that 20-year-old quote, I’d like you to explain how things have gotten better, and whether or not the NEA has been a source of improvement or resistance.
I’d rather deal with Al-Qaeda than union thugs. At least AQ is fairly obvious, instead of hiding behind the individual teachers who are (in many cases) forced to belong. How do I know this? My mother was a 4th grade teacher for 25 years.
And yes, I posted this in the earlier thread. Can’t exorcise only one outbreak of the Demons of Stupidity, as Dogbert would say.
JKC
Perhaps the American education system has declined, if posters like SDN and BJK who are stupid enough to equate teachers with terrorists represent even a small minority of thinking on the subject.
But excessive inbreeding seems a more plausible explanation.
Slartibartfast
This isn’t a liberal vs. conservative issue, it’s just an attempt to shine the light of reality on way-over-the-top political rhetoric.
And a highly successful one, at that. Good work, John.
Spoons
I agree that Paige’s comments were over the top, but I think your “NEA” pictures are inaccurate. Paige made it clear that he was talking about the union and its leadership, not teachers generally. To be accurate, your pictures should have shown a bunch of union executives, then a bunch of Democrat politicians for “who they work with.” For their “ultimate result” pictures, you could have shown a bunch of uneducated loser crack addicts who never make anything of themselves because the NEA blocks any reforms that might actually take kids out of failing schools and give them a chance in life.
Like I said, Paige’s comments went too far, but that would have been a more fair way to represent the contrast.
Steve Malynn
In 1999 I had the pleasure of defending a school teacher from a defamation lawsuit brought against him by his NEA union rep. The pleasure was beating the NEA thug with a clue-bat. What was informative was finding out that the Union rep was making six digits – twice what the teacher was making. The justification for the Union rep to be making 100k+, so she would be paid the same amount as the district superintendants she was negotiating with.
What was the lawsuit over, during a union meeting where the NEA rep was explaining a proposal to cut health benefits at one district so as to take part in a regional package that improved benefits for teachers in other districts, the teacher complained about the cut and asked if the NEA rep was “in bed with” the administration. The NEA rep took offense, and sued the person she was being well paid to serve.
As an observer whose Grandfather, father, aunts and uncles have taught at the Elementary, High School and College levels – the attitude of that particular NEA rep did not suprise me.
Was Secretary Paige out of line, yes. Was Secretary Paige making a valid point about the thugs who run the Teachers Union, in my experience, yes.
Emperor Misha I
Well, I would’ve said something, John, but I believe you just slam dunked the entire issue well into next week with this post.
I’ll have B.C. clear a room in the dungeons for Paige. Sounds like he’s long overdue for a severe whopping over the noggin with a nailstudded cluebat.
Spoons
Since we appear to be menioning our teacher-friendly bona fides, I guess I should note that my mother, father, sister, fiancee, and fiancee’s mother all are, or were, teachers. Momma, poppa, and sista all belonged to the NEA (although not by choice). All five of them would agree that the NEA is a dastardly organization that recklessly harms children.
JKC
As someone whose family has long been involved in education (my mother and I are the only ones who don’t teach) I can see Steve’s point of view. There are way too many in the NEA who are more concerned with politics than education.
That said, the larger issue is the use of the term “terrorist” to smear opponents. It’s immoral, it’s a danger to liberty, and it cheapens the term.
I expect that kind of crap from morons like Ann Coulter. I expect better from the Secretary of Education.
Jon H
Steve Malynn writes: “Was Secretary Paige out of line, yes. Was Secretary Paige making a valid point about the thugs who run the Teachers Union, in my experience, yes.”
There are still better metaphors than “terrorism”. There’s a distinct lack of ‘terror’ in the tools used by the NEA. If the NEA were terrorists, Steve, you wouldn’t have been involved in a civil court case, you would have been identifying bodies.
Why use “terrorism” when one could far more accurately use “organized crime”?
Dave
I’m with Steve and Spoons – Paige was way out of line, but the Union is thuggish and not really concerned with what its forced-to-be members think or want or need.
Jon H
Dave, here’s a clue:
terrorists aren’t merely “thuggish”.
Zach
Thanks, man. I had no idea that teachers weren’t terrorists until I saw your pics.
Armchair Pundit
Hmmm Jon…
I think that’s why Dave is saying that Paige was out of line.
Armchair Pundit
Also check out the Drudge Report and see some of Kerry’s equally repugnant remarks.
Maybe Paige said this on purpose to bring up an issue against Kerry ;)
Rick
A nation at risk is a nation at risk. So chill.
Blogs appear to exist to take umbrage at external hyperbole, but then give rise and velocity to fresh exaggerations.
Cordially…
Mike
He just didn’t finish the photo series.
Perhaps a third set of pics will resolve this conflict.
The first shows a bunch of union reps in expensive suits standing in front of their cadillacs.
The second shows who they work for, in this case guys in even nicer suits standing in front of limos.
The third just shows big piles of money.
CaliBubba
carpeicthus
Ellen: I volunteered for an inner-city high-needs teaching program in NYC last year. Everyone, no matter who, said it was the hardest thing they have ever done, including many ivy-league law students and a woman who had run a multimillion-dollar corporation and battled pervasive lung cancer. I hear ya.
chippydog
Photographic evidence of a Bush/Nader alliance can be found here:
http://www.chippydog.com/nader.html
BadTux
I spent two years as a classroom teacher. They were the two hardest years of my life. Being charged with the care of 20+ children while not being provided the resources, training, or support needed to do the job that you know needs doing is one of the most difficult and heart-breaking jobs out there, and I suggest that people who call teachers “terrorists” are missing a few loads of common sense. While I generally don’t agree with Mr. Cole (and definitely do not always agree with the NEA leadership, in my personal experience the NEA was useless, more about pay hikes to older teachers than support for younger teachers), in this case his clue stick is definitely appreciated.
shark
Remarks were stupid and over the top, but offensive? Nah.
Jane Finch
Brilliant.
John Cole
Thx.
Random Numbers
Saying the NEA= all theachers is like saying al Quaida= all muslims.
Paige may have gone overboard in his hyperbole but you have done so as well with your equasion of all teachers to a corrupt, collusive bureaucratic-aristocratic elitist group of controll freaks.
Hexdek16
I guess calling them communist would be out of line too?
The Lonewacko Blog
“Was Secretary Paige out of line, yes. Was Secretary Paige making a valid point about the thugs who run the Teachers Union, in my experience, yes.”
For yet another example, various CA teacher’s unions are spending millions of dollars to get Prop 56 passed. That would let the Democrat majority give yet more money and power to the teacher’s unions. Along the way they’d tax and spend CA into BK, but, whatever.
Christian
I am a member of the NEA. I am a classroom teacher of 12 years. I take umbrage not only with the term ‘terrorist’ but also the term ‘thug’. While I may agree or disagree with my union leadership, no one is forcing me to participate, no one is forcing me to vote a particular way, and no one is forcing me to change my behavior, teaching style, or anything else. I have not been extorted, abused or mistreated. Misrepresented, maybe, but nothing else.
Remember this. All unions are a direct and natural out-growth of economic systems that permit abuses of power. They come into being in direct response to the abuse or mistreatment of the persons who feel the need to be organized for self protection. If there was no need, the persons would not organize in self defense. Just like any other organization (the federal government for example), unions can be co-opted, misused and misdirected. But to compare them to criminal organizations is the logical equivalant of calling our political parties criminal organizations. Or any other lobbying force for that matter. The same logic applies to the NRA, the AARP, the Christian Coalition and all other political action organizations. Is the NEA political? Of course it is. It was intended as a political body from the outset. Can NEA representatives be jack-asses? Yes, and so can party leaders, presidents & priests.
I had the extreme misfortune of being accused of child abuse by the parents of a student who attacked me. I defended myself, and ended up in court. I could not afford a lawyer without risking my family to financial ruin. Going to jail would put them at identical risk. Fortunately for me, I have been paying dues to my professional association, who pay for a full time lawyer. He helped save my family & my career. That is what the NEA is for. Can it be used for other things? Sure, but the problem with Paige’s remarks and that I see in most of these posts is the error of painting everyone involved with the same brush.
Bigoted or sensationalist remarks do nothing to help the problem, they merely exacerbate it. The problem I see with Paige’s hyperbole is that it forces us to either take him seriously, or to ignore him entirely. If the unions are terrorist organizations, then they need to be hunted down and eradicated. If they are not, then what the hell is he using the word for? This why there is so much voter apathy. We can’t take his comments seriously, because this is not a police state, yet, thank God. And if his comments are not to be taken seriously, and he is willing to make such inflammatory remarks, how can we expect him to work with the teachers and educational system that needs changing in the first place?
Steve Malynn
Christian, the problem is public education is effectively a monopoly dominated by collusion between the NEA and very political school districts. The truely powerless are the parents, especiall poor parents. Paige’s remarks were directed to the NEA lobbyists, not to the rank and file teachers. I am happy that the NEA did their job and protected you from a spurious attack. I would be more happy if the NEA got out of the way of real improvement in public education.
Christian
Well now. Thank you, Steve, for the pleasant tone of your response and the genuine attempt at sincere dialogue.
The diffuculty I have with your assertions about educational monopoly, unethical collusion and real improvement are these:
First, the United States is historically incapable of deciding what ‘real improvements’ are going to be. We are a mixed kettle, we Americans, and we want a lot of contradictory things at once. A prime example is the idea of ‘educational monopoly’ versus local control. Do we want a set of nation-wide standards or do we want local school boards to retain the power they currently have in setting community based standards? Well, naturally, we want both, of course; but we can’t possibly have both, thus the problem. If this were the only issue we were split on, we might be able to move somewhere, but we’re not even close. There hasn’t been an educational program presented, instuted or established in the last 90 years that didn’t create dissension, frustration and division in the American populace, let alone in the educational community.
President Bush’s well meaning but totally unfunded and ham fisted No Child Left Behind act is a prime example of what I’m talking about. Even conservative states are considering or have already opted out of the program because the results aren’t showing and the costs are too high.
The monopoly we are discussing is the Federal, State, and local governments, who set all policies between them, negotiating a kind of cross between financial arm-twisting (the Feds) and top-down declarations (State Legislatures). This is responded too by the local school boards, who are elected by the local population (Parents, hopefully). Sometimes the local population agrees with the state declarations, and sometimes it doesn’t. But that is how the policies are set. Now, other than voting (which is a great gift, I realize) the people left out of the policy making decisions are the ones who supposedly have been trained in the best ways to educate children, the teachers. Local unions or professional organizations are one way of making teachers’ voices be heard.
In my experience, a single teacher or even a group of individual teachers at a school board policy meeting have not a tenth the influence of a single angry parent. However, a representative of an entire association tends to be taken a bit more seriously.
See, the NEA can’t possibly be in collusion with the ‘monopoly’ as you call it, because the monopoly is the very government that is complaining about the lobbyists.
Now, all school districts are political, but they tend to be politically representative of the local population because the school boards are elected by the people, the board hires the local superintendent and the superintendent sets the district policy. His job is to make the school board happy and the school board’s job is to make the parents happy. The difficulty is often between the district policies and the teachers. The same kinds of problems that occur between them are occuring between the Federal Govt. and the States right now over the NCLB act. The State Legislatures initially all jumped on board because it all sounded like a great idea, but in practice, the Legislatures are finding that the expectations are too costly and unrealistically implemented. This isn’t because the President is evil, it’s because the policy making didn’t adequately involve the people who have to make it all a reality, the teachers themselves. I mean, the President can tell the Joint Chiefs of Staff that he wants a particular military objective accomplished, but he needs to talk with the Generals first. If the Generals are out of touch with the troops and the local officers, they stand to make some very costly mistakes, in lives and dollars.
One major difference between the military and the education system is that the military typically gets to force it’s goals on it’s objective. As teachers, we deal in human beings and their free will, which is a problem, I can tell you.
Poverty stricken parents are powerless in many, many ways. They are not, however, stripped of the right to vote. Also, we are required by law here in America to teach EVERY child that walks through our doors, no matter how poor, no matter how emotionally disrupted, no matter how physically disabled or abused.
As teachers, we are expected to appropriately educate EVERY child, whether they speak English or not, whether they have eaten or not, whether they have lice or cell phones or their own personal credit cards.
And we gamely stand up to do just that. Are there bad teachers? Undoubtedly.
Are they the rule instead of the exception? Absolutely not. Teachers have too many expectations put upon them to stay if they aren’t happy working with children. The typical burn out rate is 5 years.
And I will tell you what the most difficult part of a teacher’s job is. It is the lack of respect as professionals. Lack of respect from parents who seem to think that there is time in a day to teach each individual student according to each individual families preferences (at least these are the parents who care! Thank Heaven for that!) Lack of respect from students who fail to see the importance of an education. Lack of respect from administrators who often treat teachers as though they were children instead of professional adults. Lack of respect from legislators who expect that teachers will be at the top of their game professionally, have a minimum of 4 years of college, then tell them what to do and how to act as though they were trained monkeys, never asking the teachers’ well educated opinions on ANY policy change. Lack of respect from political leaders representing the entire spectrum of political ideology who shamelessly blame educators for everything from taxes to tooth-decay just to foment public panic and get political gain. And lack of respect from the media, who is always ready to pounce on and amplify the slightest bad news to sell papers, air time, and products. It makes us tired and a little put out. So you can imagine after spending a day with 180 hyperactive but oh so precious middle-school students, how frustrating it is to come home to the news and find out that if not for teachers (who’ve organized themselves out of self defense, I remind you), the world would just kind of sort itself right out.
The Dave
Now that it’s becoming obvious that 911 was an inside job and that even Bldg 7s’ owner stated the bldgs were demolished by pre set charges, do you think Cheney Rummy Bush et al will be arrested before the election or after?
Steve
Did I miss something?
I saw an observation of COMPETENCE. Nobody called teachers terrorists in that sentence.
I think the response, which involved most of the logical fallicies possible, fully support the conclusion of the sentence posted.
Christian
I’m sorry Steve, I’m having pronoun confusion. Where did you see an observation of competence? To which sentence are you referring when you say that no one called teachers terrorists. Which response supported the conclusions of what posted sentences, and which logical fallacies are you referring to? And yes, I did ramble and vent a little, for which I apologize if it was off topic. By the way, does anyone know what the heck TheDave is talking about?
Christian
Steve,
Did you think I was being sarcastic when I thanked you for being so reasonable? Because I was and am totally sincere about that. I hope I didn’t offend you by being unclear or way too preachy.
Thank you again,
Christian Fasy