With all of the Kos drama going on, this idiotic comment seems to not have received the sort of attention it deserves:
Republican Senator Jim Bunning of Kentucky, speaking of Dr. Daniel Mongiardo, a dark-haired, dark-skinned second-generation Italian-American running against him this fall:
“I have to tell you he looks like one of Saddam Hussein’s sons… I mean before they were dead, of course…I really mean that he looks like one of Saddam’s sons, and he even dresses like them, too.”
Bunning made the remarks at a Lincoln-Reagan dinner (Abraham Lincoln couldn’t be reached for comment either on pairing his name with Reagan’s or on Bunning’s Know-Nothing comments). After word leaked out, Bunning’s campaign denied that he’d said any such thing.
But then it emerged that the event had been videotaped, and Mongiardo’s people started to demand that the Bunning folks release the tape.
I don’t think, for one minute, that Kos’s remarks are indicative of a wider Democratic position, but I do agree with the Instapundit when he stated that Kos “seems to be infested with a degree of hatred that I previously associated with the Democratic Underground and other fringe sites.”
Similarly, I do not think that all Republicans are racist- nor am I sure that this was necessarily a racist comment- but that is how it will be perceived. However, the fact that ELECTED officials from the party I belong to (more or less- I am a registered Republican and I most likely will continue to support Bush) feel comfortable even thinking this remark is somehow funny or appropriate, let alone uttering it, and worse yet, making it in front of a large crowd, having it videotaped, and then trying to lie about it, is indicative that there is still a good deal of house cleaning to be done on the right side of the aisle. I think comparing even the appearance of a political opponent to that of the Husseins is an inappropriate statement.
*** Update ***
Post edited to add coherence.
*** Update #2 ***
I am not sure what is so hard to understand about this for some people. I am not completely sure that this was indeed a racist remark, whether the racist connotation was made accidentally, intentionally, or not at all. I am pretty damn sure that this is, at the very least, an idiotic thing to say and do, as comparing anyone to those scum is offensive. It pisses me off when I see Hitler mustaches painted on Bush- how is this any different? Even if you don’t think this was racist, you have to be able to agree with me it was offensive and demonstrative of an apalling lack of judgement.
Making things worse is the behavior of Bunning’s staff. When are these people going to learn to just admit a mistake, apologize, take a hit on the airwaves for one news cycle, and then move on?
frontinus
I don’t know what I find more disturbing–the Senator who thought it a good joke to tell publicly or the audience who gave him “a lot of laughs”.
shark
The guy is an absolute moron holy cow what was in his head where his brain should be?
And I thought Hillary’s “Ghandi ran a gas station” line was ASSinine.
Jeff G
I think Bunning made a bad joke, but I’m not sure it was racist. I mean, it’s one thing to call Mongiardo a garlic-eating Dago greasewop, but it’s another to try to tar a political rival by saying he looks like the evil son of a current enemy.
I have no idea what’s in Bunning’s heart — I do know that as a professional baseball player in the 50s and 60s he had blacks as teammates and I’ve heard of no suggestion he was racist then — so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt as a not-particularly foresighted or funny political opportunist, rather than suggest he’s racist. At least until I’m proven wrong.
Jeff G
I agree with your updated post. I’m tempted to say I could care less how some opportunistic partisan hitman will spin this into a virtual lynching and Bunning into an imperial Klan wizard, but it does matter these days — particularly when I sense that a lot of people like me (a thirty-something social libertarian, educated, who’s hawkish on defense and idealistic in foreign policy) want to swing behind Bush for purposes of the Presidential election, but are still a bit leary of taking the leap and voting Republica because of the stigma attached to Republicans, fairly or not.
At any rate, it wasn’t helpful, if only because it wasn’t any funnier than, say, Al Franken calling Rush Limbaugh a big fat idiot.
SDN
Bunning is an idiot. Period. Full Stop.
Frankly, he needs to apologize, then drop out.
Buster
Typical PC reaction by some, most of whom probably haven’t seen the guy Bunning was speaking about. If he looks like one of Saddam’s son to hell with it, what’s wrong with saying so? Everybody gets offended by everything nowadays. Bunch of thin-skinned pussies.
Pearl
Nope, this doesn’t cut it. I don’t care if it’s from the left or right, it’s downright disgusting and low!
This is a man running for public office (representing the public). I couldn’t vote for someone who couldn’t keep a civil tongue in his head! What a moron!
Scott
Any way under Kentucky law to do a Torricelli on Bunning?
(I was going to suggest “Torching” him, but I didn’t want a visit from the FBI.)
frontinus
It’s not about PC or racism(meaningless word pretty much). It’s about judgement. It’s entirely possible this just popped into Bunning’s head while he was at the podium and he blurted without pondering the possible implications. But I wouldn’t bet any major body parts on it.
slimedog
What a dork. One of my major gripes with my party is how our guys can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, just by shooting off their mouths. This guy needs a nanny, not a public office. Sic ‘im, Kaintucks!
Raoul Ortega
So have we got to the point where every statement that someone deems offensive is cause for political capital punishment?
Case in point– Mr. Klieman subtitles his weblog “A Fair and Balanced Weblog
“. Yet his third paragraph has the following snide comment which adds nothing to the report, and which could be considered moderately offensive– “Abraham Lincoln couldn’t be reached for comment either on pairing his name with Reagan’s or on Bunning’s Know-Nothing comments” Maybe if people would start practicing what they preach, or at least stop acting like they write for the New York Times, they might start to be taken seriously.
J.Mayeau
Take a look at Dr. Dan Mongairdo. To even a cursory glance he has the striking resemblance of Uday. This guy on a political junket to Iraq would give the people nightmares.
Les Nessman
Has anybody seen what Mongiardo actually looks like? That may be relevant.
On the other hand, the Senator should stick to the issues of the campaign and leave the name calling on the playground.
Les Nessman
Whoops! didn’t see the previous post. kinda answers one of my points. I think my second point still stands.
BigDaddyT
How are Bunning’s comments racist? Italians and all Arabs are Caucasion. This race obession must stop.
Trump
Its quite simple. We have to hold Rep. candidates to a higher standard. if the Dems want to embrace crap like this (KKK Byrd, I’m looking in your direction) that’s their problem. If this guys comments weren’t racist, they certainly were fucking stupid. Ooooh! He looks like Uday (um…before he died of course, an aside that adds to the sheer stupidity)- so he looks like Uday. And that means what? His policies are like Udays? What is this supposed to mean? If we’re gonna get annoyed when Dems call Bush “chimpy” or stupid, then we shouldn’t condone this morons comments.
There’s a way to conduct politics. That isn’t it.
quark2
How dumb can you get?
With as painfully politically correct politics are in this country now why would anyone with a functioning rational brain utter such stuff. If he isn’t aware of the environment he’s living in, he needs to have someone give him a good swift kick to wake him up.This will most likely cost him in re-election.
PGT
Proof that the Thought Police never sleep.
Yeah, the “Saddam’s sons” remark is exactly like expressing joy over the death and mutilation of four people in Iraq.
Do you people never sicken of your own self-righteous, politically correct bs?
Apparently not.
Gary Farber
“Do you people never sicken of your own self-righteous, politically correct bs?”
See, that’s your problem, John: you’re far too politically correct, you wacky liberal wimp. You don’t express yourself forcefully enough.
Glad that’s cleared up.
jbelkin
It’s not necessarily racist or un-PC to “poke fun” at someone’s appearance but when you say you look like Saddam’s son, that carries more weight – who here wants to accused of looking like he could another Uday and all the it implies and the history of the family?
It’s not really funny nor really racist but perhaps slanderous?
And of course, if he’s willing to say you look like a terrorist in public, what is he saying in private?
Don’t know the other guy but Bunning obviously old and losing control at one end of this orifices we know about …
amr
Actually, he looks more like Uday after he died, once they shaved his corpse.
chuck
Bunning once pitched a perfect game for the Phillies, so he can’t be stupid.His remark though is pretty stupid . He should appologize and move on.I’m sure his constituents will have the opportunity during the campaign to see Dr. Mongairdo and make their own conclusiopns regarding his appearance. It’s certainly childish, to say the least, to make an issue of an opponents physical appearance, though there are plenty of voters who will base their votes on such nonsense.
Emily
Assuming the man isn’t an out and out bigot, – and I don’t think he is.
Surely the point is that the comments are at best stupid and ill advised. But more importantly they allow for easy points scoring by the Democrats, attention is diverted away from issues and instead the focus becomes this silly side show. Our represenatives need to realise that elections are to important to squander with ill thought out, off the cuff (lets hope) comments. I mean what did he think the reaction would – use your head!
Sarah
I don’t think any overwhelming brainpower is required to pitch a perfect game (see: David Wells).
Joel Mackey
This whole thread is pretty sad. bunning is trying to make some lame joke to his supporters.
Note to Republicans commenting on this post, gnashing your teeth and wringing your hands cuz instapundit is trying to Lott Bunning. Grow a pair.
It doesnt matter how you talk, or what you say, if your Republican, your gonna get called a racist by a democrat at some point. according to the black caucus, wearing a blue suit and a red tie is the equivalent of wearing a white sheet.
Just as “colored” became unacceptable, then “black” not acceptable and next” african american” will be unacceptable because the racism is not being projected, it is being percieved, and the percievers are looking for any hint of racism. I am sure they will succeed.
I would refer to your representative’s voting record to determine his worthiness of your vote, rather than his opposition’s operatives characterizations.
Sam Barnes
The guy deserves some bad press for a rude comment, but nothing more. Get a grip. His comment certainly wasn’t racist, nor was it an especially egregious level of rudeness. This level of discourse occurs on a daily basis from people of BOTH parties–that doesn’t mean it’s ok, but neither is it a special sin on Bunning’s part. Comparing this comment to Lott’s only trivializes the epic stupidity of Lott’s comments.
jessie jackson
lighten up fellas. let’s not be so sensitive. we’re all big boys, aren’t we? he just said that he looked like sadam’s son. now, it may not be the smartest thing to do but i’ve heard so much worse directed toward bush and republicans and everyone just glosses it over.
Ben Coates
The problem here is that instead of apologizing, or claiming that he wasn’t referring to Mongiardo’s race/skin color/whatever, he chose to claim that he never said it in the first place.
Which means he knew he shouldn’t have said it, and now instead of being someone who made a borderline joke and backed off when the hyper-sensitive complained, he’s the liar who makes racist jokes.
The “Trent Lott lesson” is when you say something stupid (and everybody says stupid things), stop digging.
Glenn R
As I say, the hate has spread way beyond places like the Free Republic.
Gary Farber
“Note to Republicans commenting on this post, gnashing your teeth and wringing your hands cuz instapundit is trying to Lott Bunning. Grow a pair.”
A key to determining whether a statement is wise or valid is to drop out the name of the referred to person, and replace it with that of an opponent, and consider if it is still valid.
In this case, replace “Republicans” with “Democrats.”
How many find that to be advice you’d give? Or agree with?
A similar exercise: “It doesnt matter how you talk, or what you say, if your Republican, your gonna get called a racist by a democrat at some point.”
(Put into non-subliterate English.)
“It doesn’t matter how you talk or what you say, if you’re a Democrat, you are going to be called an ‘appeasing traitor’ by a Republican at some point.”
Therefore,implicitly, it matters not what you say. It only matters that you defend partisanship, and return the attack! Truth is irrelevant!
Whatever happened to the principle of personal responsibility for one’s words and acts?
“This level of discourse occurs on a daily basis from people of BOTH parties….”
From a member of Congress? This is a simple statement of provable fact. Please give your cite for April 2nd’s similar quote from a Representative. Oh, heck, just give three cites from the past three weeks.
If you can, you’re speaking the truth. If you cannot, you are not able to demonstrate the truth of this statement.
JustMaybe
Maybe, just maybe..the guy does actually look like one of Saddams’ sons…did you ever think of that??
Is it rascist now to say one ethnic mnority looks like another?? get a life.
Kevin Baker
Today’s Day by Day sees the parallel.
Scott Kelly
Sadly, you can say “get a life,” but Frontinus and SlimeDog are right: you just can’t say this stuff — if you’re a Republican. If you’re a Dem, you can get away with the most vitriolic, poisonous stuff and nobody will bat an eye — because you’re one of the “good guys.” The standards are different from a Republican. Recall the brouhaha around Trent Lott, with the usual KKK rhetoric — while nobody said Word One about the fact that Robert Byrd, D-WVa, actually WAS a member of the KKK.
Racist or not, Republicans ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SAY THIS STUFF. That doesn’t make it right or wrong; that’s just the lay of the land.
Peg C.
Stupid? Yes. However, the Thought Police are taking over the right as well as the left, bigtime. I hear stuff like this at work all the time, often by liberals, BTW. It is so normal I barely notice it. It seems to be only in the context of politics that we take umbrage at it. In light of what we face, this really seems petty and obsessive.
The Blogosphere has developed a truly ugly attack and destroy mindset.
IB Bill
Ted Williams said pitchers are stupid.
Bunning was a pitcher.
Jeff B.
No, this IS inexcusable. As Republicans, we have an obligation to disclaim this type of BS, when it comes from Lott or Bunning (Lott’s transgression was far worse, lest there be confusion). Nobody’s calling for Bunning to be run out of the Senate on a rail (and good luck with that, in Kentucky), but we’re no better than the Kossites if we make excuses for the inexcusable.
And that’s what I hate to see the most. The parallels: I think we’re right to harbor contempt for the commentators on Kos’ site who are making excuses for him. When I see that, part of me (the irrational part, I acknowledge) thinks, “Cripes, are they ALL like that underneath the mask?” Whether that’s a fair judgment or not (almost certainly not), it’s still an incredibly damaging thing.
Let’s not mirror them in desperately spinning for our side.
Good on ya, Mistah Cole.
Joaquin Guardia
OK, OK, OK, enough hyperventilating. As a matter of fact, Mongiardo does bear a striking resemglance to Uday or Qusay, never can keep those guys straight,not that it matters.So it was a true statement. Are we against the truth? Was it PC? I don’t give a dame about PC. Al Franken daily makes his living making similar statements about our side, with adoring ululations from the legions of one-brain-celled liberals. So Bunning had an Al Franken moment. Racist? Only in the sense that snide comments about rednecks (anybody not from the NE) are racist. What I do like to see is that so many right-thinking conservatives oppose the right’s sinking into the ethical and intellectual morass that defines the left.
robert
Theres a prime example of the quality level of the folks who rule us all.
Gary Farber
“…while nobody said Word One about the fact that Robert Byrd, D-WVa, actually WAS a member of the KKK.”
Google says otherwise: Results 1 – 10 of about 2,410 English pages for “robert byrd” kkk
Results 1 – 10 of about 2,780 English pages for senator byrd kkk.
Results 1 – 10 of about 6,840 English pages for byrd kkk.
It turns out this is provably false.
Also, Byrd was a member of the kkk in the 1940’s. Every condemns it, but to use him as a counter example, he must be used as a counter-example to something done or said sixty years ago.
“If you’re a Dem, you can get away with the most vitriolic, poisonous stuff and nobody will bat an eye — because you’re one of the ‘good guys.'”
Okay. Three citations, please.
It’s easy to say all sorts of stuff. It’s meaningless bs unless you can back it up with citations. If the above statement is true, please bother to provide evidence.
Gary Farber
Incidentally, I happily state that I believe Robert Byrd is unfit to serve in the US Senate due to his KKK history, and various subsequent racistly-inclined statements.
I’m sure anyone who agrees is now, therefore, of like mind about Trent Lott, and is willing to criticize Bunning.
Sterling
I’d turn it around on you: Why is Mongiardo offended by this? Does he consider it unflattering to be told he resembles an Arab?
Dave_Violence
“‘d turn it around on you: Why is Mongiardo offended by this? Does he consider it unflattering to be told he resembles an Arab?”
Because he is an Italian, as indicated by his last name.
What’s most offensive is the ignorance these poltiticians display. Don’t “make fun” of anyone’s physical appearance and especially don’t make fun of their ethnicity or worse, their mother language. We’re all Americans, are we not?
If you’re a white American, beware: Germany took a dump on Wisconsin… I am amazed that those lightbulb-heads can read, let alone cook. Sweden and Finnland took craps on Minnesota. Ugh, are the only native-literate Americans of English (not Welsh, not Cornish, not Scottish) descent?
Bob
Here’s the pic:
Daniel Mongiardo.
Does he look like Uday? We report, you decide.
Matt Hurley
Mr. Farber: There will be no citations which can be cited of events that aren’t reported. Think about that for a minute… Oh, THAT liberal media…
jackson zed
I don’t think he looks like Uday. He doesn’t look terribly “ethnic” either. But then neither did Uday. And saying that an Italian guy looks like an Arab guy… How is this construed to be racist again???
I think this is a wee bit of a stretch here.
:jackson
Russell
To be sure, that quote was ugly and unfair. But it was ugly and unfair in (like someone mentioned) an immature, playground-sorta way, not like the Hitler/Saddam comparisons coming from the Left that mean to suggest that the target of the comment is somehow ideologically similar to the historical monster of choice.
An equivalent slur from Bunning would have been something like describing his opponent’s policies as following in Stalin’s footseps or somesuch.
Again, it was a ridiculous, mean-spirited thing to say, but not even close to the ugliness of the “Bush=Hitler” crowd.
Neil
I think there needs to be a new standard for all elected officials: If what you say on the campaign trail appears to be the result of a convention of sub-50-IQ individuals, you should be impeached, flogged, and then deported. In that order.
HH
Then there’s Chris Dodd’s comments on Robert Byrd, ex-Klansman:
More:”You would have been a great senator at any moment….you would
have been right at the founding of this country, right during the Civil War … I can’t think of a single moment in this nation’s 220+ year history where you would not have been a valuable asset to this country.How exactly is this any different in substance from Lott?
Lily
Is it OK to say Kerry “looks French?”
HH
FYI my comments begin after “asset to this country.”
Terry
This contrived issue involving the Senator’s admittedly silly joke isn’t worth the pixels being used to flog it. It is way beyond ludicrous for anyone to suggest this incident is somehow a parallel with the truly outrageous remarks of Trent Lott. It’s about time that those on the conservative and/or libertarian side of the debate stop feeling compelled to respond to any and all comments that might somehow be perceived as politically incorrect…God knows, the other side rarely bothers with apologizing for out-and-out offensive remarks and behavior by those with whom they otherwise agree.
the talking dog
Alas, the voters will get to decide how offended they are by Bunning’s remarks; with luck, SO offended they will vote him out.
If they don’t, it doesn’t speak well of them– but this IS a democracy (of sorts), so its voters’ choice… just as I’m sure other confirmed racists (see Trent Lott) will be re-seated.
I don’t know what the fuck Markos was thinking– I don’t know if he’s apologized yet for his inappropriate remark, but if he hasn’t, I wish he would. Its one thing to say “Lookit– they were mercenaries– they volunteered for something VERY dangerous and were compensated handsomely for it– while I’m horrified at their deaths and the aftermath, I just don’t feel the same sympathy for them that I do for now 600 dead U.S. soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines who were just DOING THEIR DUTY TO SERVE THIS COUNTRY and could NOT control their deployments– which is how I feel, btw– and leave it at that.
Just adding more horror to a horrible situation, if you ask me…
Richard Ames
Has no one considered that maybe Markos’s opponent DOES look like one of the Hussein sons? Isn’t truth an absolute defense to the charge of stupidity anymore?
Scott
I don’t think it was a racist comment (frankly, I don’t even understand the racism thing in this case), and it certainly isn’t of the same order of evil as Kos’s celebration of our enemies.
This was more on the order of Keith Olbermann’s claim that Kenneth Starr “looks like Heinrich Himmler.” Right-wingers (including me) found that outrageous, because Olbermann was clearly trying to associate Starr with Nazism. This is almost precisely the same thing, and no, it doesn’t matter in either case whether or not it’s literally true. ‘Cause you know, Starr *does* look a little like Himmler.
Gary Farber
“I’d turn it around on you: Why is Mongiardo offended by this? Does he consider it unflattering to be told he resembles an Arab?”
I realize this is a difficult concept to grasp, but Uday and Qusay Hussein are not considered primarily to be “Arabs,” but — here’s the part that’s apparently subtle — fricking raping, torturing, mass-murderers.
I understand that it’s possible that word of this has not reached your environs, sir.
Gary Farber
“Mr. Farber: There will be no citations which can be cited of events that aren’t reported. Think about that for a minute… Oh, THAT liberal media…”
I’m confused, Mr. Hurley. How are you aware of these statements for which you imply there is no evidence?
Do you commonly find it acceptable to make accusations for which you there is no evidence?
Is this, sir, our American tradition?
Gary Farber
“How exactly is this any different in substance from Lott?”
It’s not. It appears essentially identical. Therefore Chris Dodd was an idiot for saying it. Thank you for calling this to my attention. I shall post on this momentarily. Remarkable that they posted this on April 1st, but it appears perfectly genuine.
slickvguy
1) This comment by Bunning shows poor judgement. I’m sure we’ve ALL said something stupid at one time or another. Yes folks, even politicians say stupid/regrettable things. Gee, imagine that!
2) The lying about it is more troublesome than the comment, as it shows that Bunning (and/or his people) have a problem accepting responsibility and handling issues effectively.
3) Unless I misunderstood the context, I don’t see how this remark is “racist” in the least.
4) Quite an overreaction by Glenn and others. Honestly, a lot of you people seem guilty of the exact same behavior that you properly criticize on both the left AND the right. Perhaps too much exposure to the political game has rubbed off on the blogosphere? I’ve seen this trend getting worse over the past year. We should strive to keep our objectivity, and not get sucked into that nonsense.
Gary Farber
“It’s about time that those on the conservative and/or libertarian side of the debate stop feeling compelled to respond to any and all comments that might somehow be perceived as politically incorrect…”
It’s always good to see a straightforward declaration that one side should be treated in a different manner than the other. Yes, only conservatives and libertarians should stop feeling such compulsions! It’s fine that “the other side” should be allowed no such freedom!
Glad that’s cleared up.
Bill
So Mongiardo also dressed like Uday and Quesay? What does that mean exactly? They wore suits sometimes…he wears suits. Bunning wears suits. Does that mean Bunning = Uday?
Bunning also ran an ad 6 years ago which had his opponent morph into an image of Hitler. I guess complaining about that is more of PC groupthink, correct?
What bothers me the most about the reaction among many of you is the snickering tone of “ohboy, Democrats can say whatever they want, so when one of our guys says something bad, it’s not a big deal!” How can you say this on the one breath and then in the other breath go on and on about how morally superior Republicans are?
That reminds me of when a North Carolina representative made remarks a few years ago about how terrorists were working down at the convenience stores and gas stations (it was Sue Myrick- http://www.saalt.org/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=80&z=3 ). Where was the outrage then? Where was that big outcry that accompanied Hillary’s stupid Ghandi remark?
The double standards and the “we’re better than the other guy” attitude is what sticks out every time a Republican tries to play moral police on a Democrat, online or offline. Neither party has a patent on thoughtful comments. But when a Republican makes these comments he almost always gets a free pass. Even Lott was only marginally downgraded in power and much of his demotion was based on party politics (the pressure groups felt that Frist would be a more malleable and friendlier face than Lott in terms of pushing attacks or hostile legislation or crazy judicial nominees, or recently, accusing Clarke of perjury and then retracting your comment after the media has already moved on).
Republicans spent 1992-2000 talking about how much they hated Bill Clinton. Now they wring their hands and cry tears of sorrow when they think Democrats have done the same through 4 years of George Bush. It’s revisionist history. And that, along with the ugly and bigoted remarks from people like Santorum, are why I can’t vote for Republicans even when I have so many problems with the pathetic Democratic party.
smith
I want people to know that Nathan Newman, friend of Ramsey Clark, has been deleting posts that refer to the obits of the 4 men murdered in Iraq (you know: the men that the definitionally challenged Mr Newman calls “mercenaries”). I think that the sensitive Mr Newman gets more exercised about people who take down “Vote Union” fliers in the break room at Wal-Mart than he does about the gruesome murder of 4 innocent individuals.
Iron Fist
When stupid, insensitive remarks are compared to cheering the deaths of Americans, I’d say some people are a little too sensitive.
Being insulted is a HELL of a lot different than being DEAD.
Matt Hurley
“I’m confused, Mr. Hurley. How are you aware of these statements for which you imply there is no evidence?
Do you commonly find it acceptable to make accusations for which you there is no evidence?
Is this, sir, our American tradition?”
Mr. Farber: I didn’t say there was no evidence. I said there were no citations.
Accusations should be backed up with evidence whenever possible. The bias in the media makes that difficult to do from time to time because the media, generally speaking, are not objective.
The American tradition is to a fair hearing. The press doesn’t allow that if your ideas differ from the liberal establishment. The few conservative voices in the media are tolerated; not there for genuine debate.
Fascinating dialogue. I appreciate your candor in asking clarifying questions.
Iron Fist
Perhaps this should be tossed into the mix.
For the edification of the various Klansmen lurking in our midst :-P
Fairly Garbled
‘It’s always good to see a straightforward declaration that one side should be treated in a different manner than the other. Yes, only conservatives and libertarians should stop feeling such compulsions! It’s fine that “the other side” should be allowed no such freedom!’
Clearly, that is a misrepresentation of what was meant; and unless Gary can immediately submit 2 citations from eyewitnesses proving otherwise, it’s meaningless bs.
HH
Gary – Laura Ingraham played audio of the Dodd comments Friday.
Tom Becks
It’s not a racist statement! How about if the Duke of Wellington accused a hypothetical political opponent of having kids that looked like Napolean’s sons? Would that have anything to do with race? Of course not! The Republican you are so incensed at was simply trying to tar his opponent by associating him with a well-known enemy of many of the voters, ie, Saddam Hussein. Was it a classy move? Not really, but then I was wasn’t aware that politics is a classy business.
Gary Farber
“Mr. Farber: I didn’t say there was no evidence. I said there were no citations.”
Online, the only form of evidence possible is a link, a citation. If you have no citation, you have no evidence.
Gary Farber
“Clearly, that is a misrepresentation of what was meant; and unless Gary can immediately submit 2 citations from eyewitnesses proving otherwise, it’s meaningless bs.”
I cited what I was responding to.
Gary Farber
“Gary – Laura Ingraham played audio of the Dodd comments Friday.”
Yes. Interestingly, she lied about it. I have responded here.
HH
Interestingly Gary, she didn’t lie about it… the worst she did was paraphrase the audio she played on her radio show and put it in quotes. Hardly a lie, just sloppiness. He said almost exactly what she said he said, Gary, unless the Cong. Record is now lying. I won’t ask for an apology to all parties but it would be nice.
HH
FYI apology accepted.
Matt Hurley
“Online, the only form of evidence possible is a link, a citation. If you have no citation, you have no evidence”
Mr. Farber: Thank God our courts don’t run on these rules of “evidence.” Again, the point is that there won’t be “citations” or “links” if the press doesn’t report it.
Gary Farber
I’ve corrected my blog entry, and apologized to Ms. Ingraham. I regret my error.
Gary Farber
“Mr. Farber: Thank God our courts don’t run on these rules of ‘evidence.’ Again, the point is that there won’t be “citations” or ‘links’ if the press doesn’t report it.”
Respectfully, I don’t know how else to read what you are saying other than “I made an assertion for which there is no proof” and/or “something is true, and you should believe me, even though I cannot support it,” and/or “I believe something for which there is no evidence.”
Really, what would your own response be to such a claim?
Fairly Garble
‘”Clearly, that is a misrepresentation of what was meant; and unless Gary can immediately submit 2 citations from eyewitnesses proving otherwise, it’s meaningless bs.”
I cited what I was responding to. ‘
-Yes, but I am the self-righteous Fairly Garble, and I decreed that you provide 2 eyewitness accounts. You have failed the burden of proof for this Thread.
James Kabala
I agree completely with Scott. I’m glad that someone else brought up the Keith Olbermann remark about Himmler.
I really think that it is a stretch to call the statement “racist.” First of all, whom is Bunning supposed to have slurred – Italians? Iraqis? All people of dark hair and swarthy complexion? The remark was dumb and rude, but not racist, as far as I can tell.
Bill: Bunning didn’t run an ad in which his opponent, Scotty Baesler, morphed into Hitler. He ran an ad in which “Ride of the Valkyries” was played in the background of a speech by Baesler. Bunning’s camp said that this was just to mock Baesler’s over-the-top speaking style, but Baesler’s people claimed that it was to imply that Baesler was a Nazi type.
James Kabala
I agree completely with Scott. I’m glad that someone else brought up the Keith Olbermann remark about Himmler.
I really think that it is a stretch to call the statement “racist.” First of all, whom is Bunning supposed to have slurred – Italians? Iraqis? All people of dark hair and swarthy complexion? The remark was dumb and rude, but not racist, as far as I can tell.
Bill: Bunning didn’t run an ad in which his opponent, Scotty Baesler, morphed into Hitler. He ran an ad in which “Ride of the Valkyries” was played in the background of a speech by Baesler. Bunning’s camp said that this was just to mock Baesler’s over-the-top speaking style, but Baesler’s people claimed that it was to imply that Baesler was a Nazi type.
Patrick
“I do not think that all Republicans are racist”
Gee, how oh so thoughful of you not to tar 40% of the country … and I hear that not all Democrats are not alcoholic fishmongers who annoy their neighbors with bagpipe playing
… “but” ..
but what? How does a comment by one person against his political opponent’s appearance indicate anything “racist”, by him or any wider community? I found it a dumb joke nothing more. I’ve heard a lot worse and more damaging from pols (like Kennedy’s blunderbuss of phony accusations today, doing his part to demoralize our Iraq effort).
isnt ‘racism’ about prejudice? Isnt it a tad prejudiced to start talking about “all Republicans”?
“Now I aint sayin thems folks are all like that, no sirree, … BUT … “