Remember this image (that we first saw here):
Turns out it is a hoax. Here is the real image:
Click here for the full image.
Joanne Jacobs writes in the comments:
Somebody thought a U.S. soldier would pose with a kid holding a sign accusing the soldier of being a killer?
Unfortunately, yes. From the CAIR website:
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today called for a Pentagon investigation of a photograph circulating on the Internet that apparently shows an American soldier mocking an Iraqi child.
The photo sent to CAIR seems to be of an American soldier standing next to two Iraqi children who are giving the thumbs-up sign. One child holds a hand-lettered sign in English that reads: “Lcpl Boudreaux killed my Dad, th(en) he knocked up my sister!” (“Knocked up” is American slang for making someone pregnant out of wedlock.)
“If the United States Army is seeking to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, this is the wrong way to accomplish that goal,” said CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad. “Defense Department officials must take action to let military personnel know that such offensive behavior harms America’s image and will not be tolerated.”
Awad said CAIR has also received an anonymous letter from a soldier who recently returned from Iraq that claims a commanding officer engaged in inappropriate conduct with prepubescent Iraqi girls. The letter states that the officer, who was named by the writer, referred to the girls as “pre-rag heads” and coerced local Iraqi leaders to provide them in exchange for protection by American soldiers. (The officer’s military unit was also named in the letter.)
The letter-writer indicated revulsion at the officer’s alleged actions. He or she wrote: “The thought of all this makes me sick to my stomach. I am afraid to bring this to anyone in the Army, because I am doubtful that they would believe a soldier over the Battalion Commander.”
“These reports point to a disturbing pattern of behavior that needs to be addressed by our military,” said Awad.
CAIR, America’s largest Islamic civil liberties group, has consistently condemned all terrorist acts, whether carried out by individuals, groups or states.
Islam Online also picked up the story and ran with it, including numerous other chartges (click the link to read them all- I am not wasting my bandwidth with their bile):
U.S. Muslims called for a Pentagon probe of a photograph circulating on the Internet that showing an American soldier apparently mocking an Iraqi child.
In the photo, an American soldier is standing next to two Iraqi children who are giving the thumbs-up sign.
One child holds a hand-lettered sign in English that reads: “Lcpl Boudreaux killed my Dad, th(en) he knocked up my sister!”. (“Knocked up” is American slang for making someone pregnant out of wedlock).
“If the United States Army is seeking to win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, this is the wrong way to accomplish that goal,” Muslim Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) Executive Director Nihad Awad said Friday, April 2.
“Defense Department officials must take action to let military personnel know that such offensive behavior harms America’s image and will not be tolerated,” Awad said.
(Thanks to Henry Hanks for IM’ing me the link to the photo)
*** Update ***
Apparently Drudge has this too.
*** Update #2 ***
As it turns out, it is unfair to call the picture real, it is premature and unfair to call it a hoax, and in private correspondence, Mark Kleiman noted:
The Marine Corps Times story suggests that the Marine isn’t denying responsibility for the picture, and that the investigation is centering on whether the text in the picture reflects actual crimes. No doubt it doesn’t; it’s just a dumb bit of Leatherneck bragadoccio. But it seems likely that he actually posed the kid with the sign (or posed him with something innocuous and then Photoshopped the sign into existence) and that the photo with “saved” was a later bit of CYA.
Frankly- I don’t know what to believe. I want to believe this is a hoax- but if it is not, I can not think of another more disgusting and anti-productive thing for a member of the Armed Services to do.
I apologize if I misled anyone.
Well, well, well… I wonder what CAIR has to say now. I seem to remember they were in a great hurry to spread the fake around the internet. No doubt they’ll post a correction….
I wonder if the left wing sites will post corrections as well. I am sure it will go unnoticed at the fine folks at DU…
I knew that was a Photoshop the first second I saw it. I never even bothered to de-hoax it on my blog because I just assumed that people would recognize it for a hoax….
I seriously overestimated the left on that one.
Somebody thought a U.S. soldier would pose with a kid holding a sign accusing the soldier of being a killer?
I’m not so sure that either is valid, but it looks to me that the second photo — the one that says he saved and rescued — was derived from the first.
Look at the E’s and D’s in “saved” and “rescued.” They don’t match the same characters in “sister”, “Boudreaux” and Dad.”
In the first photo, all the characters are consistent.
Like I said, the first photo may be a phony. I sure hope so. But it seems likely me that the second is derived from the first.
Obviously, one (or both) signs are photoshopped. I am not an expert on image manipulation, just a plain ol’ country lawyer. But I think I can tell which one is definitely not real:
Try this. Download both pictures and enlarge the images in your favorite photo editor. Compared the lower-case letter “d” in both. In the “bad” sign, they are consistently written in the same style. In the “good” sign, they are not.
The “original” image (saved/rescued) is cropped. The “faked” (killed/raped) is not. Look at the lower edge of the picture.
just wait will Oliver of Atios goes on the defensive by saying, “oh you guys have done that too”.
Umm…so you’re saying that the “evil American” image is real? Just looking at it, I can tell its a phony. Looks like someone had fun with the blur tool…
And that’s the problem in the age of Photoshop and cheap, easy image manipulation. It’s hard to tell when something’s been skillfully manipulated.
I’d like to believe the “bad” sign is the fake. I’ll stick with that belief until someone proves me wrong.
Drudge has the story today. He calls it “a ‘gag’ photo”. I think the scare quotes means he knows it’s a gag.
I figured it was a joke by the soldier. I hope it’s not as he will be in a lot of trouble if he did it. Not killed and raped, but wrote the sign as a joke.
“so you’re saying that the “evil American” image is real?”
Nope. That’s why I wrote “one (or both) signs are photoshopped …” Could be the “bad” one is fake, too. The Marine investigators are looking into it; should be an announcement soon.
The Lonewacko Blog
Actually, the first photo appears to be the correct one, as I indicated here. The Marine Corps are only looking into whether the claims made on the sign are true, not whether the photo was doctored.
I use Photoshop for a living. There are a couple of easy tell tales to watch for with fakes.
1) When an image is compressed once it decompresses again pretty well. However, if you take a compressed image (like a .jpeg), work with it, then recompress it back into a jpeg, you will get compression artifacting issues around the twice compressed imagery.
If you examine the “Killed” photo you will see much more of this recompression noise around the image. Now, that may be because its from a TV so it’s second order, but…
2) Usually around a faked area you can find a seam or imperfect texture match. If you enlarge both the signs, on the “killed” sign you will see a lack of texture & weird pixelization surrounding the lettering. If you look at the “saved” sign, you will see correct lighting and the sort of very subtle corregation that you get on cardboard. See it? Running horizontally through the lettering?
I’d say it’s pretty obvious the “saved my dad” is the real one.
Not to mention the patently obvious point that a GI wouldn’t smile and pose with a sign accusing him of such things.
I’m counting down the minutes before this appears on Fark as a Photoshop contest.
I forsee Admiral Ackbar’s head on the kid, with “IT’S A TRAP!” written in crayon.
One thing no one mentioned is that if the kids’ dad was killed and sister raped, would he be smiling ear-to-ear
You Bunch of Nits
Jeff, there are plenty o’ cheap photo editors that let you read photo headers and line-after-line of code that digital cameras jack into a file. So, Jeff, your highly trained eye aside, you are just wrong.
…but anyone that didn’t have his head up his butt would know that the first picture is a joke. We vile white males who have lives make a serious mistake when we assume people can take a joke. That soldier’s career is ruined. Someone from al jazeera will track that kid down and get him on tape saying the “scary man with a gun” raped his sister and murdered his father when he tried to intervene.
They found more burned and butchered Americans today…and CAIR is upset over a prank. Lying is their native tongue.
Ashby, on your point number 1, wouldn’t that just mean the “evil” image was compressed twice?
In both images, the artifacts around the text are consistent (within the particular image). The only difference in the two signs is a couple of words. If any changes were made, we should be looking at only the words that were changed, looking for differences between those words and the others within the same photo.
“One thing no one mentioned is that if the kids’ dad was killed and sister raped, would he be smiling ear-to-ear”
There are a couple levels of possibility here. One, the “bad” sign might be real or fake. If it’s real, that’s bad. The next level is, if it’s real, the Marine in the picture may have or may not have actually committed those acts. I’d say it’s far, far more likely he didn’t. The whole thing could just be some stupid noncom’s idea of a joke.
Ashby is absolutely right. The “killed” version shows far more artefacting when blown up than the “saved” one, indicating that “killed” is a recompressed derivative of
“saved.” Further, the “s” in “saved” has a fattened top curve, which is fairly common in marker writing but not common at all in digital photo work. In fact, that fattened curve would be a sublety you wouldn’t expect to see in a fake, unless the faker is very smart. There is also evidence that someone painted around “killed” on that sign, as seen in discolored texture, while “saved” shows no such evidence. And the “d” appears to have been digitally pasted partially over the “e” in “knocked.” As a pro photo/video effects hand, I’d say the “saved” photo is far more likely to be real than the “killed” one.
I think the idea is, if the killed/raped one is real, then the kid didn’t know what the sign said (ie couldn’t read English writing). That, of course, makes it a prank, not an admission of guilt.
Many of us have been debating this picture for the last few days. Being a former corpsman for the Navy attached to the Marines for 3 years, I can attest that this is something we would have done as a joke. We did similar stuff in Somalia.
I tend to believe that both photos are fakes though, but the one photo that shows the most manipulation is the “saved” version:
Here is the “killed” Photo: http://www.thegreatsatan.com/images/ds_1.jpg
now here is the “saved” version http://www.thegreatsatan.com/images/ds_2.jpg
Notice the two sets of “d’s” that are different from his name, and the “dad” its pretty telling when you look at them side by side, but heres an animation of it: http://www.thegreatsatan.com/images/d_anim.gif
I tend to discount CAIR because of their insanity, and I’m still skeptical about this whole thing, but this appears to be proof towards the Killed version being all done in the same handwritting.
Show me a “saved” photo that’s high quality like this “killed” one, THEN you can talk about blurring and photoshopping.
The Lonewacko Blog
I just spoke with a Marine Forces Reserve spokesman, and I updated the post linked above.
The investigation is investigating all aspects of this event; one finding might be that the photo was altered.
However, I agree with the last comment’s handwriting analysis: the “saved” pic’s handwriting is internally inconsistent.
Photoshopped and not a bad job either, except for the slight degree of pixel distortion that you can spot around the letters and the logo on the kids shirt. It looks like they tried to clean up the image using blur to soften the difference between the original and inserted text and then applied sharpen. That way the inserted text and the original text would look almost identical.
Roger L. Simon
I’m no lawyer, as the famous saying goes, but I think if we could track down the culprit in this, that soldier would have the mother-of-all-lawsuits.
Sadly, I think I agree the “saved” is the phony, for the following reasons:
-When I blow up the ‘saved’ version, I can almost make out the old ‘my’ from the ‘killed’ version, as if they used the photoshop bandaid tool to cover it.
-Think about how pressure works when you’re writing with a magic marker. Now look at the second E in ‘rescued’ compared to the E in ‘killed’. The darkest parts of the E should be where the marker starts, and where lines overlap. Compare this with other Es that are in both photos. The ‘rescued’ E isn’t consistent.
Similarly, look at the A in ‘saved’ compared with the As in ‘Dad’ and ‘Boudreaux’. the ‘saved’ A doesn’t exhibit the same pressure at the peak of the arch or the overlap where the marker finishes the leg.
Looking at both pictures “blown up” — I’m surprised anyone would think that the “killed” picture was the orginal and the “saved” one was a fake. The amount of noise around the “killed” letters and the obvious blurring is a dead giveaway.
The first one seems like an obvious fake, especially the pixels around the letters.
As for inconsistency in handwriting, I think most people’s handwriting is sloppy and varied. Especially when writing with a marker on carboard in the middle of a desert!
Let’s hope the poor guy gets to clear his name after this hatchet job…
Why hasn’t anyone noticed that the idiom “knocked up” (meaning impregnated) is probably not widely known outside native speakers of American English? I’d take that as a strong indicator that the sign was written by an American, and therefore likely to be a joke in poor taste.
I saw the ‘bad’ version at Ernie’s House of Whoop Ass last month (click and scroll down to 3/12/2004).
In that context, it would seem to be a joke perpetrated by the Marine. Ernie has a lot of fans (including in the military) who send him gag pictures (and he posts a lot of crap he finds himself, as well.)
As a joke, it’s in poor taste (heck, EHOWA itself is an exercise in bad taste), but since when is poor taste a crime?
I can’t speak with authority on another service. All I know for sure is the Army. However, didn’t the Marines deploy to Iraq wearing the pixelated desert uniforms? I’ll defer to anyone with real knowledge of Marine BDUs and what they deployed with. But I think it’s worth asking if it’s even a Marine being pictured.
It should be a dead giveaway purely on image quality alone. Not only is the ‘killed’ image a little blurry and a bit darker, but a look at the faces tells me it’s vertically stretched as well.
I am saddened to agree with those who think that the “killed/knocked-up” sign is probably the real one. The version with “killed” makes sense as a tasteless joke, whereas the “saved” version doesn’t convince: what kind of hero would let such a boastful photograph be taken of himself? Also, why with the brothers and not with the father and sister? And why the distinction between “rescued” and “saved” when those words have, for all practical purposes, the same meaning?
Though hoping the killed sign was the fake, my first inclination was that the saved sign was fake based on the language. Why use the words saved and rescued which have the same meaning in separate sentences.
Notice the shape of the “u”‘s in the images. The “u”‘s in “Boudreaux” and “rescued” don’t have a tail, but the “u” in “up” does. Little details like this combined with the heavier artifacting around the letters, indicate to me that the killed image is the fake one.
Is this another example of how liberals “support” our troops?
I make a snarky comment, and the next thing I know, Allah’s in the house with a picture.
Maybe he’s the one true god after all?
There was obviously a witness,whoever took the picture.But would any soldier seriously have a picture taken that could put him in Levenworth for life?
It is either a fake or a sick joke.
I am skeptical of the claim that the “saved” sign is the original — although I’d surely like that to be true — just because it’s awful convenient for the “original” to appear weeks after the “fake.”
Are there any sightings of the “saved” sign prior to this week? What is the source of this picture? You link to this guy’s image dump (follow the link for more of his images), but where did he get the picture from?
Before we can declare one or the other as “real,” I think we need more information.
Why would a young man with a family who likely uses the internet have a picture made of himself saying he did despicable thing?
And I agree with the other PhotoShop experts above. The “bad” photo seems to have been more compressed than the “good” photo.
Someone should get Snopes.com on this.
The first one looks to be the original one, just because it makes more sense.
It’s a gag photo. The guy writes this down on a piece of cardboard, gives it to one of the kids who doesn’t speak English and has him hold it up for the picture. Then they do the cheesy Mentos thumbs-up thing. I’ve seen dozens of these things. It’s a pretty popular schtick.
The only thing that would make me mad about the photo is that he’s basically mocking a kid by having him hold up a sign that he can’t read.
Another difference, open up both images in a HexEditor, and scroll to the end of the files. Embedded in the end of the killed image is a link to http://www.jeeran.com, an arab web hosting community.
Is this another example of how liberals “support” our troops?
What makes you think that, if the “killed” sign is the fake, it was done by a liberal?
“Embedded in the end of the killed image is a link to http://www.jeeran.com, an arab web hosting community.”
Tim, there’s also Arabic writing at the bottom of the “original.” :) I assume that’s because they somehow got ahold of the picture and added both their site in the metadata and the Arabic at the bottom.
That doesn’t establish whether the original picture contained the “killed” text or the “saved” text, though. We really don’t know for sure one way or another.
If “killed” is the original, it’s a pretty dark joke. One I find funny-but-offensive; the joke being “look at these stupid kids who can’t read English, haw I pulled one over on them.” Which is a decently “good” dark joke as far as being nasty goes.
If the “saved” one is the original, then it’s a photoshopping job similar to those on Fark, which could have been done by anyone with a dark sense of humor, liberal or otherwise.
I rather suspect it wasn’t the Arab site who did it, though — it doesn’t fit with the typical Arab style of humor.
Partly a hunch, partly the fact that they have demonstrated in the past a willingness to do anything to do pretty much anything to manufacture evidence, and that they have been more anti-military for longer than I’ve been alive, and the fact that they are the ones marching with real signs declaring that they “support our troops when they kill their officers”.
I really, really hope that this turns out to be a fake, but it does seem more real than the “saved” pic. I am not a Photoshop expert, but if the “killed” version does turn out be a hoax, that’s one where fiction looks more real than truth. Look around the edges of saved and rescue, don’t they seem like they’ve been cloned?
Regardless, no one soldier can negate the justness and the necessity of this war.
If you adjust both images to the same size, copy the word ‘killed’, paste it on top of the word ‘saved’ and then toggle the pasted layer on and off, what appears to be a very faint remnant of the ‘ll’ in ‘killed can be made out behind and above the ‘v’ in the word ‘saved’. This implies that the ‘killed’ image is the original.
I wish it were not so, but it is.
Dang, I wish I could think of everything at once so I didn’t have to keep posting.
At the top of the saved image file (again opened in the HexEditor), there is “Ducky” and “Adobe”. It appears that Ducky is a 3D capture program that would import things from a digital camera. To me that would indicate that who ever created the saved image used that program to extract the picture directly from a digital camera. Opening the image in photoshop and then re-saving the image overwrites that bit of info, meaning that the image was either modified in Ducky (can anyone check to see if Ducky is capable of it?), or modified in another program and then resaved with Ducky to erase the tracks.
The more I study this, the less uncertain I become.
I saw what was purported to be the original weeks ago before it was Fark’d. Neither of these were that one. The text read something like “Thank you USA.”
Just imagine in a few years, with the advances in digital technology the difference between real and fake will be impossible to determine.
I surely hope the Marine Corps hasn’t gotten so PC that a stupid joke would ruin this guy’s carreer. It is funny that CAIR thought LCPL is an army rank. Lieutenant Colonel? Guy’s a little young.
I would have to say they were both probably faked. The original probably said “hi, mom” or “go Patriots” or something like that. I hope, if it is something innocuous like that, the soldier still has the original saved somewhere.
Okay, they both are likely to be fake.
the killed one is just obviously fake to anyone who isn’t a totally biased fool
the saved one is just nonsensical.
and kynn, you’re a pretty effective troll, but it’s obvious that a conservative would not want to frame troops, nor would a typical liberal, just an extreme fascist liberal oxymoron moron, of which there are too many.
Oh look everybody, it’s a high quality jpeg of the ‘killed’ image, which was posted above, but which most of you ignored.
If either of these images is ‘real’, I’d say it’s most likely this one.
Also remember that neither of the two images at the top of this page are ‘orginals’, in that they’ve both been cropped to be the same size as each other and to fit on the page. Which might also explain why one looks more ‘compressed’ than another to some people.
Here’s another HQ image, but not quite as good. I really hope the “killed” message is a fake, but apparently some people *do* think it’s hysterically funny.
Looks like some of that wacky Marine humor. He knows the kid cannot read english…
it burns when i pee
It’s obviously a liberal plot to discredit our armed forces. That isn’t even a real marine, its and NPR operative dressed as a marine and the photo was taken somewhere in Nevada. Those damn, flag burning liberals.
has anyone tried opening the images and looking for metadata therein?
if it wasn’t 4 in the morning here and i just woke up and couldn’t sleep again I suppose I would, should probably remember to check tomorrow.
i remember when I first saw it I figured it was a fake, basically because that kid holding the sign really looks happy to be standing next to the thumbs up marine.
If this was real (the killer photo) I’d think he’d pose with his boot on the dead guy, the kids would be crying, and the girl would be hanging on his arm.
if the guy had the picture done himself well it’s in bad taste and he should probably be disciplined (note this is considering that he probably didn’t do what the sign alleges [would you and then brag about it?] but just did it as a joke) if he didn’t do it as a joke and the nice sign is the real one (just because we find higher quality versions of the killed doesn’t mean it’s the original ) or even if it’s something innocuous like “hi gary, we did it!” I can’t help but think the guy would find it somewhat offensive. uhm unless gary (the mythical stay at home brother) did it as a birthday gag.
wow, I’ve really gone far deeper into this than being awake at 4 in the morning should require. Hmm, notice weblog posting is set to server time.
Regarding the better quality image- at least that now shows the corrugated cardboard texture, but the moir
what is the arabic text underneath the killer photo about would seem to be a pertinent question.
Also i find the text in both signs to be non-believable. i bet the original says something different, that the killer is a photoshop of that one with all the sign’s text taken out and new text put in. And the good picture is a fake of that one with a couple of letters changed.
Um … the aspect ratio of the ‘killed’ one is f**ked up. Look at how elongated their heads are.
I use Photoshop every day, retouching and color-correcting photos. I can tell you without question the “Saved My Dad” image is faked. Here are the giveaways I spotted right off the bat:
1. Look closely at the areas around the words that have been changed. You can see where the cloning stamp and blur filter have been used–the pixelization isn’t consistent with the rest of the image.
2. Look at the spacing of the words. The word “my” in “rescued my sister” has been shifted to the left to compensate for the gap of the missing “Knocked Up” lettering. Again, you can see where the cloning stamp was used to cover up he move
3. Look closely at the edges of the cardboard sign–you can see where the lasso tool was used with a 1- or 2-pixel feather to select the areas of the sign without lettering to blur out the cloning stamp marks.
4. The lower-case “d” in “Saved” and “Rescued” doesn’t match the lower-case “d”s in “Boudreaux” and “Dad.” In the “Killed My Dad” image, all the lower-case “d”‘s match.
And that’s just at a first glance. It looks like the work of an amateur Photoshop user–my guess is the military or their PR agency got wind of the “Killed” image and the ensuing scandal, found a low-resolution jpeg, altered it, and re-released it in the hopes the original “Killed” image would be discredited as a hoax. Unfortunately, they didn’t use to get the higher-resolution version to which Dustin linked.
Moreover, if Lcpl Boudreaux really did save the father and rescue the sister, why didn’t he take a picture with them? And from what did he save and rescue them? It couldn’t have been too serious–everyone looks very relaxed. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. The more likely scenario is the “Hey kid, do you speak English? No? Okay, stand there, go like this with your thumb and hold this up! Say cheeese! Ha ha!” I mean, think about it.
This is not to say the “Killed My Dad” image is real, but I’m certain the “Saved My Dad” image is a poorly-Photoshopped fake. Like I said, I use Photoshop every day to do things way more complex than this, so the hallmarks of fakery are blatantly obvious to me.
I use photoshop alot too. And I know how much I want one pic or the other to be the right one.
Cute arguments, from both sides. Me, I’ve “proven” that this guy saved dad and rescued sister.
Ahhh, the joyous release of being right in your own beliefs.
G’nite, all. Sleep as well as I tonight.
One quick point. No where in the “bad photo” did it say that the marine “raped” the kid’s sister. It only said that the marine “knocked her up,” i.e. got her pregnant.
Who knows? Maybe the killed/knocked-up photo is the true one, but the kid’s father was abusive and the sister was horny, and so the soldier performed two needed services for the family.
Okay, now I’m the one using dark humor…
I’m convinced that both photos were faked. The “killed” and the “rescued” both look very fake, so obviously the sign really read: “Lcpl. Boudreaux saved my dad, then he knocked up my sister!”
This is the most sensible explanation, as it would explain why both the kids AND Lcpl. Boudreaux (assuming he is the one in the picture) are smiling.
Both are fakes. Look at the placement of the text in both photos: there is a wide margin on the left, and the text is jammed up against the right side. If you were writing on a piece of cardboard with a marker, you wouldn’t end up with something like that; for example, when you got to the word “then” (in the first photo) you’d have put it on the next line, not crammed it in. Likewise with the “my”. So how did it get that way? Somebody created the first (“killed”) photo by removing the original message and pasting in some new text. When they pasted it, they roughly centered it in the unobscured portion of the cardboard. Because the left side of the cardboard is obscured by shadow, the text ends up grossly uncentered on the cardboard. The perpetrator may have wanted the text not to fall across the shadowed area because that would make it a lot harder to produce a convincing fake; or they may just have subconsciously fitted the text to the unobscured area.
Good post Dan!
C’mon guys! I’m pretty damn well a liberal and this never pissed me off. Killed obviously made more sense, but it’s a joke, and therefore he was making fun of himself and the “liberal’s” view of the marines… It’s dark humour for sure, but he never would have done that had he really knocked up the sister and killed the dad. That’s ridiculous.
I was listening to AirAmerica the other day and they were pissing me off by being pissed off about this pic. What a bunch of stooges.
It’s no big deal. Will everyone please stop being pissed off about this pic and instead focus their anger on the people who deserve it – the marines who really ARE killing innocent iraqis, (and vice-versa) and the ridiculous administration who sent them there?
Johnb above makes a comment about rank. The rank is Lance Corproal.
“therefore he was making fun of himself and the “liberal’s” view of the marines”
Actually, he’d be making fun of Iraqi’s views of Americans. The two big rumors or stereotypes that fly around there are:
1. Americans go around killing people for the hell of it (that’s a common worldwide belief. Wheee!)
2. Americans are defiling their women (yet another common worldwide belief! Wheee!)
It’s the same everywhere we go. Most of the world is pissed off at us because their chicks dig us. Why do they hate us? Because we’re boning their women.
It’s obviously a gag. I’ve served with scores of guys who wouldn’t hesitate to do this, had they thought of it. Poor taste, perhaps; but I’ve seen worse, and anyone whose spent time in the military would say the same. It’s crass, disgusting juvenile behavior done by juveniles since time immemorial, whether in a frat house, high school locker room, or barracks. Lighten up. Nobody got hurt.
Well, it appears that someone else has decided to use Chris as a post-name on this blog (not surprising, it’s a pretty common name). So to avoid confusion, I’ll now use Chris P as my post-name.
The only reason I mention it is that I’ve avoided passing judgement on this photo until it comes out once and for all that it’s either true or a hoax. Even John’s link to ImageDump didn’t convince me one way or the other. As of yesterday, I couldn’t find any mention of it on any urban legends/hoax websites.
Plus, I’d hate to be identified as a liberal and I certainly wouldn’t suggest that U.S. Marines are going around killing innocent Iraqis for the hell of it (regardless of the “vice-versa” cop-out). Whether you agree that this is a legitimate war or not, I guarantee that the soldiers over in Iraq have no doubt that they are in a war zone. I believe they do as much as humanly possible to avoid the loss of innocent life – whether it’s American or Iraqi. But when they’re dealing with sniper fire, grenade launcher attacks, and roadside bombs on a DAILY basis, I don’t think they stop to determine someone’s innocence or guilt before returning fire. To indirectly accuse U.S. Marines – or any soldier – of indiscriminately killing innocent Iraqis is not only shameful, it’s pathetic.
Not everyone who are skeptical are necessarily anti-Americans I love the troops, especially the Marines. I have nothing against them. I have never wavered in my support for this war. I love America. I owe it every opportunity that I could never have had in my native land. I believe it’s the greatest country in the world.
That said, I can assure you, I have no intentions of maligning the Marines. But just take a closer look at these photos.
I am skeptical of the “saved” version not because I distrust Marines, but because I think it’s actually better for our credibility to call out mistakes when we see them than to deny them.
For the record, I don’t believe the Marine actually did what’s written on the cardboard. I think it’s a joke. But I think it’s a real joke.
Again take a look at the edges of “saved” and “rescued”. Magnify both both pix if you could. You could see blotches around the edges which looked like someone tried to cover what used to be there by cloning the cardboard. I sincerly hope I am wrong, but that’s what I see.
Anyone with a 3rd grade level of education and a computer can spot that both are fake. If you are using a windows based machine, zoom in on the letters. Notice the blotching. Some would say this is just because of the compression, but no where else in the photo is there this blotching. Also, in both pictures, look at the kids left hand zoomed in. Parts of his fingertips are gone. This doesn’t happen in real photos, this one has been edited.
Wikus Hattingh from South Africa
I can’t believe all the stupid comments about the “killed” image being a fake because the soldier wouldn’t be bragging about his “crimes”. It is obviously a prank played on the unsuspecting Iraqi boys in which they are the butt of a visual joke.
Still, the saying “many a true word spoken in jest” applies here. On one level the image is simply a joke, but the joker unwittingly reveals his subconscious awareness of the central paradox of the war: America went in to secure its own perceived interests by deposing a tyrant (i.e. kill the dad), but as an afterthought or happy coincidence, it created the expectation of a new beginning, just as “knocking up” a girl implies an unintended impregnation. America is thus father to a new order (yet to be born), but, as in the joke, it is doubtful whether the father will be shouldering the responsibilities of paternity.
I wouldn’t hesitate to cause a diplomatic incident for the sake of a good joke, but the stupidity of this one offends me. Maybe I just don’t get it. Is he saying “Hey everyone, look at me! I sure am smarter than this little kid, huh?”, or is it “Hey, look! I committed an atrocity and I’m proud of it (not really just kidding haw haw haw)”. He puts his name, face, rank, and branch of service on a picture that’s guaranteed to get him into trouble and generate a nice propaganda circus for the enemy. The only way I can see any humor in this is if the original message was something dorky (“Go USA!”, “Hi mom!”, etc.) and someone altered it later.
Wikus Hattingh from South Africa
What offends you is not that the soldier is insulting the kid (every joke needs a butt), but that the joke encapsulates all the foolery and deception which was necessary to bring freedom to Iraq.
The foolery and deception that led to this war are of cosmic proportions. Those who played the fool and ended up being fooled themselves include Saddam, Hans Blix, Mark Steyn, Bush, the Neocons, the various antiwar factions and many supporters of the war on terror.
Just as nature has to fool us into procreating, this joke seems to say that God fooled us into a war that might lead to the birth of a new order.
Wilkus, you blew it. The psycho-babble undermined whatever practicality and sincerity, it seemed you had, at first. I don’t know, but the literary criticism, or the bad impression of it here, seemed uncomfortably narcissistic. I think it’s kinda pretentious and contrived. I think that would work well in Judith Butler’s class though.
So, does anyone think that this guy killed their Dad and raped their sister and then they posed for the picture. I hope not it seems that would be hard to understand. Your Dad is dead and your sister raped and you got time to pose with the killer/rapist for a few souvenir pictures. So, either the kids were duped into taking a picture which humilates them and ther family(and the soldier as well “Hey look at me I’m a rapist”) or they took a picture with a sing that said he saved the family members. While I support the military, I would suggest the second story does not make sense. Why write he rescued my dad and saved my sister when you could write, he saved my dad and sister. Saved and rescued are not that different. If the soldier realy was the hero why do these kids take the time to write a sign and take a picutre why not just the picutre witout a sign. If then can’t speak English how did the sign idea come to play and is this solder really that much of an egomanic that he says hey kids let me wirte a sing about my heroics and take a picutre. Or did he just say, hold this, put up your thumb thanks Ha Ha Ha look at what I did to those stupid kids.
I think the debate over whether the picture was altered or not is a detour from why The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) was upset in the first place. Regardless of whether it is real or not, the photo circulated as a “joke” to servicemen and women as well as now the world. The levity that the military personnel responsibile for this took the situation and the blatant disregard and disrespect for the real victims of this war (the Iraqis) is the true crime that needs to be investigated and dealt with accordingly. It is a shame that people think that it is okay because the sign wasn’t real. It’s also sad that people think that because some idiot can use photoshop to alter the picture somehow is a slap in the face of the left.
It looks like the photo is real. But so what? If it is, all it proves is that there’s at least one asshole in the military. I’ll go so far as to say that there’s more than one. There are asshole priests, asshole firefighters, and asshole Democrats. Such is life.
This guy doesn’t represent anyone but himself. No one worth responding to would argue otherwise.
According to that article: “Last week, the Marine Corps acknowledged the photo was real but said it wanted to make sure the lettering on the sign had not been doctored.”
Also, notice that the Commandant of the Marine Corps is involved and he isn’t amused by this kind of assholery.
Good point Ted,
I would hope that – if it turns out the so-called “killed” version of the photo is real – regardless of whether it was a tasteless joke or not – people would realize that one individual is not representative of an entire group.
The Lonewacko Blog
I like the description of CAIR in the nola.com article linked in the last comment. Is there a way to make this a non-victory for CAIR?
“and kynn, you’re a pretty effective troll, but it’s obvious that a conservative would not want to frame troops, nor would a typical liberal, just an extreme fascist liberal oxymoron moron, of which there are too many.”
I’m confused why I’m being called a troll?
I think it’s pretty clear that this guy didn’t knock up or kill anyone (well maybe earlier in the war, but certainly nobody related to these kids).
The “saved” image is derived, in terms of textual content and phrasing, from the “killed” image. If you were going to write a thank you to the troops, you wouldn’t write what’s in the “saved” picture. It’s not a sensible way to phrase things.
The “killed” picture, on the other hand, is exactly the way you’d write this darkly humorous joke.
I wouldn’t use crime to describe the Marine’s joke, assuming the first pic is authentic. If we applied that standard equally, most “peace” protesters would be sentenced to life imprisonment without parole.
You really know how to hurt a guy’s feelings. All I can say in defense is that I’ve never heard of Judith Butler until now. Judging from what I could glean over the web she is a feminist. I would any day prefer knocking up a beautiful Iraqi maiden to discussing issues of gender with an old lesbian.
“Is there a way to make this a non-victory for CAIR?”
Why is that your primary concern in this case? I’m puzzled. It’s almost as if spinning this to hurt your enemies is more important than anything else.
Wilkus, now you’re talking like a real human being instead of a flashy Time-Life audio-book in the bargain rack.
All I am trying to say is that your “posturing” was as jarring as someone who walks into a Chinese buffet in a limo and in a tux. I can barely imagine a circumstance when that doesn’t seem high and mighty.
Has anyone ever tried writing on cardboard with a marker, if you had you would know the “killed” version is bull. The lettering is to good, on the other hand the “saved” one looks closer to what you would see. A little fading here and there, some much darker spots. Cardboard really sucks up the ink fast.
Wilkus, oh and btw, the reference to Judith Butler came from her insistence that the war in Iraq was, to put it simply, a masturbatory indulgence of superhorny young American males. Yes, she was actully serious about that. It just seemed like you were going the same path. I mean it seemed like you two were different streams flowing from the same river
As an ex-soldier I can assure you that the superhorny stereotype is very accurate. Why deny it though? Do you expect your soldiers to be saints?
No, I’m glad Americans are horny. But it sure can make anyone who isn’t even high wonder if he/she has stepped into The Onions, when one of the most prominent feminists can say on national TV that the real reason for the war in Iraq is sex. And to say that with the confidence and certitude of a professor who declares 1 + 1 = 2, doesn’t even have the remote respectability of no-war-for-oil.
The one with the “killed” is real. I do this for a living. What a shame. There are sick bastards everywhere, including in our military.
Why cant you people get it through your heads. BOTH PHOTOS ARE FAKE. If you dont believe me, look for yourself. Right click on a photo, then click “save picture as.” Then just save it to your desktop. Then look at it up close. The tip of the kid’s index finger is missing. No the evil marines did not cut it off, it has been removed with a graphics program like photoshop. It would take me 2 minutes to erase what is on the cardboard and then write whatever the hell I want. 2 minutes. Look here… http://www.theinsaneasylum.com/pictures/miscellaneous/cardboard_overthrown.jpg
Did anyone notice that “lance corporal Boudreaux” has no military insignia on his uniform?
Martin, you’re right the photo you linked to is a fake. I do see the line where the editing ends and where it cuts the tip of the boy’s middle finger. But all that proves is that 1) the photo you linked to is a fake, and 2) it’s easy to fake a photo. But neither of that means the “killed” version is a fake. The discrepancies in the 2nd photo and the 3rd photo don’t seem to be in the 1st photo. That could still mean the 1st photo is still a fake. But it’s seems to me that the 1st photo is the most convincing of the 3.
As Ted pointed out, I really don’t see how this incident dimishes the the rational for going into Iraq. That the Marine Corps is taking this seriously and considering the possibility that this might be real, I think, further clarifies the sincerity of the US. Incidentally, I think this may actually speak badly of CAIR. I may have missed it, but I took a qlance at CAIR’s website, but I didn’t seem to see any protest there about burning, mutilating, hanging, dragging, and feeding the 4 American contractors to dogs. Most people will probably think getting more upset over some tasteless joke than having 4 of your country men murdered not just once, but repeatedly is infinitely sicker than the sickest joke.
I don’t think Marines display insignias on their sleeves. I know they have chevrons on their collars and a printed emblem on the left breast pocket, but you can’t see them because the Marine is wearing a flak jacket.
First off, I want to point out that everyone who has said that the Marine is making fun of the boy is completely wrong. It doesn’t make any sense. The kid’s not stupid, he just happened to grow up in a non-English speaking country. God, that’s hilarious. It would be like me making fun of one of you guys because you don’t know Russian. It just doesn’t work. The kid is merely a prop for the joke, not the butt. Second, it should be blatantly obvious that the Marine did not actually kill the kid’s father, because I really doubt the kid would be in any mood to pose in a picture with any Marine (whether it was the one who killed his father or not). Third, you can’t decide which one is a fake without seeing a high quality copy of BOTH pictures. If you saw the picture that said “shrapnill touched me where i pee”, it is obvious that it isn’t difficult to remove the original text and leave no trace of it. There’s a very good chance that the original just said something like “I love America”, and some 15-yr old kid thought it would be funny to photoshop it into the ‘killed’ version. Even if the ‘killed’ version is the original, so what, don’t get your panties in a bunch over it. Is it tasteful? Not really. Does it matter? No. Some random soldier thought he’d have a little laugh. It’s not like it represents the official position of the government (though some would argue otherwise). Finally, those who quickly laid the blame on ‘some liberal’ who wants to make the military look bad are simply infantile and downright moronic. First off, they say that the ‘liberal’ wants to make the military look bad. There are plenty of people in the world who dislike/hate America, and would love to make the US look bad, and I find it fascinating that someone would just immediately jump to the conclusion that it must be a ‘liberal’, because, of course, that’s the obvious choice. Liberals are nothing but a bunch of Anti-American, treasonous, flag-burning nutcases who never pass up the opportunity to insult America (I’m being sarcastic, in case you didn’t notice). The fact of the matter is, no liberal (with the exception maybe of a few on the extreme fringe) is on a mission to discredit the military. They may not agree with the reasons why we went to war, they may think we shouldn’t have invaded Iraq in the first place, they may want to reduce military spending, and they may think that Bush is a crappy president, but they still support our troops, they want nothing more than for the troops to come home safe, and they don’t want to paint every US soldier as a war criminal.
you FUCKING IDIOTS, look here http://laer.nu/captions/index.php?page=1&sort=alpha
Don’t blame CAIR or the American army. Blame Adobe for creating photoshop.
To me it doesn’t matter if the actual picture is real or not. I doubt the fact that it was shot in Iraq with an actual marine. His camo has no insignia he’s not wearing a flak jacket he has no weapons or belts. Marines also do not wear jungle camo on top of desert camo it kind of defeats the purpose. Anyone who thinks the picture is real is a moron. Email me if you think different
Yes, the “Saved my dad” photo is clearly fake and derived from the other.
Take a look at this : Here.
Confidential to YOU IDIOTS:
Thanks for including the link to that Caption City website. I’m definitely convinced that both photos are fake now. However, just because we all failed to find one website out of 4,285,199,774 (according to Google anyway) doesn’t make us, as you so eloquently put it, “FUCKING IDIOTS.” OK, you knew about the website and we didn’t. We all stand in awe of your superhuman intelligence. There, feel better now? Next time, check your superiority complex at the door.
I want to believe this is a hoax- but if it is not, I can not think of another more disgusting and anti-productive thing for a member of the Armed Services to do.
I’d love to see Glenn Reynolds say something like this. Hell would probably freeze over if he did…
Let’s say the photo is real but the deeds aren’t. So that makes LCpl Boudreaux really silly. But you know what? Who cares? It’s not a crime, let alone a capital crime.
If taking a silly photo is his greatest sin, that Marine is still a hero. If the trade for risking his life for our self-righteous asses is one tasteless joke, we’re still getting more for our money. LCpl Boudreaux is a hero. If he didn’t do any of accusations in the photo, a 3-mile rule in full combat gear is more than enough punishment to teach this silly hero of ours a good lesson he won’t forget.
We are at war. Unless, one of you guys is willing to take his place in the Marine Corps, you guys should just shut the fuck up.
Ok, as a photoshop expert and 6 year veteran in the USAF, let me say two things.
#1 the “saved” image is found nowhere in a high res. format, where as the “killed” one is all over the place. You will notice significant discoloring in the shadows if you look at it on a monitor better than your average DELL/HEY IT WAS ON SALE AT BEST BUY monitor (try a Viewsonic P95f+) lots of green artifacing in the “saved” version in the black shadows.
#2 The “killed” version plainly has the texture of the cardboard throughout the text, but it’s counterpart has absolutely none.
#3 If the “killed” version was a fake, it would be a matter of seconds to provide the investigators with the original and BAM end of investigation, end of messy PR hassle. This obviously is not the case as it took weeks for the “saved” version to “appear.”
#4. Military males, especially the lower ranking, are very similar to frat boys, and this is a damn funny joke being made by taking advantage of the language barrier. But, as everything in the world today, no sense of humor PC bullshit prevails.
#5. While on that topic, those of you who want so badly for it to be fake, you look just like the pricks that are getting their panties in a bunch over the joke.
QUOTE -“To me it doesn’t matter if the actual picture is real or not. I doubt the fact that it was shot in Iraq with an actual marine. His camo has no insignia he’s not wearing a flak jacket he has no weapons or belts. Marines also do not wear jungle camo on top of desert camo it kind of defeats the purpose. Anyone who thinks the picture is real is a moron. Email me if you think different” – Posted by: Jonathan Haines on April 16, 2004 05:08 AM
Again, let me reinterate. 6 Years in the service, two trips to the gulf, guess what numbskull, I had woodland camo flak vests both times, as did the majority of folks in the AO. Some folks even had green helmets, some folks even had WOODLAND BDUS! You see, not everyone in gets desert camo gear – I have personally only seen one or two desert flak vests.
Here’s some examples:
I could continue for days with this. You see, the military purchases items long before they need them, and believe it or not, we have a lot more woodland camo in the closet than desert pinks.
As far as the “no insignia thing” those isignia would be found on the lapels of his BDUs underneath the vest.
Guys, let’s try to get some sense of proportion here. The “killed” photo, if it’s real, which I think it is, is not as shameful as you think in the grand scheme of things. That kind of juvenile joke is so common in anti-war rallies, except that they’re actually serious. If a Columbia professor can seriously call for a million Mogadishus and still go on teaching, famous artists can actually believe the collapse of the WTC was the greatest work of art, I just don’t see why joking about having killed someone’s father and having knocked his daughter is somehow more serious.
The joke was truly childish. I didn’t find it funny at all, and I wish he hadn’t made that joke. But this boy is not a threat, not to us or to anyone except terrorists. If you really wanted to make a difference in the world, go protest at universities where professors openly wish US soldiers turn on each other.
“LCpl Boudreaux is a hero” and “We are at war. Unless, one of you guys is willing to take his place in the Marine Corps, you guys should just shut the fuck up.”
What a load of horseshit. LCpl Boudreaux is over there to do a job he signed up for. Big fucking deal. LCpl Boudreaux is about as much of a hero as every other beer-swilling jackass frat boy. If LCpl Boudreaux was a real hero, he’d have written “BRING THE TROOPS HOME” on that cardboard sign.
This is the same sort of jingoistic crap as that “You’re either with us, or you’re with the terrorists” rhetoric. LCpl Boudreaux can kiss my ass.
Well, I guess we know which side you’re on.
To the person that dreams of Marines kissing him.
Is there logic in your rant? Do not be misled by the loonies, instead of reciting their spin take some time and really think about thngs in historical context.
Haven’t any of you seen “The Maltese Falcon?” There was a scene where Humphrey Bogart starts beating on Peter Lorre and says:
The marine is humiliating the boy. “Smile for the camera, because when I kill your dad and knock up your sister, you’ll take it and you’ll like it.”
So much for “keep our honor clean.” I hope Lcpl Boudreaux gets a dishonorable discharge.
He may think this is funny, but the harm this does to the mission is way beyond any merriment he or his buddies may have gotten out of making fun of a couple of kids.
I’m reminded of the term “dumb cracker” and wonder whether “boudreaux” is Cajun for “inbred.”
You don’t play this kind of prank on people you respect.
That he would take this photo just demonstratest that the marines look on iraqis as ‘niggers’ (it’s no accident that this guy is from the South) and see them as less than human.
Another interesting Rorshach test, this thread.
So many people so sure of themselves.
So many people who don’t let their preferences for what they’d like to be true affect their judgment as to what is, they are sure, true.
And so few people volunteering apologies when found to be wrong.
I’m sure everyone will learn a lesson from this.
Or maybe not.
Craig G. Etter
I think the most plausible answer to the two photos is: there are two photos. Note the very slightly different smile on Lcpl Boudreaux’s face and the very slight different position on the left hand of the boy holding the sign. Solution: different wording on each side of the sign.
The Lonewacko Blog
Boudreaux now says the photo was doctored; the Marines have reopened their investigation.
FOlks, the “marine” in the photo is not wearing the issued digicams, required by USMC personnel in the SWA AOR. Additionally, he looks a lot more like a cousin of the boys in the photo. 3 color desert camo is principally ARMY issue item.. Finally, the eagle globe and anchor are missing from his cover, which is about a far from issue as possible. Fakeorama
You’re all lame.
This marine is one SICK PERSON. I can’t believe thatpeople have convinced themselves that “this didn’t happen”. Wake up. The Marine ADMITTED TO IT! the real picture is here:http://biodef.nerim.net/Photos/Boys/Original.jpg
The detail is stunning and makes you realize the overwhelming truth.
The fact that someone put up a lower resolution gramatically non-sensical (saved AND rescued??) shows a messed up sense of patriotism. This soldier should be shoveling dung in kentucky rather than representing the United States in Iraq.
Stupid Conservatives will believe anything that is tossed at them by hot air know nothings like limbaugh, Drudge and their ilk.
No way a US soldier done it! Never! We is civilized!
“The Marine ADMITTED TO IT!”?????
Hardly, check the following link from the Marine Corps Times:
“To indirectly accuse U.S. Marines – or any soldier – of indiscriminately killing innocent Iraqis is not only shameful, it’s pathetic.”
Riiiiight. Like those soldiers who forced the Iraqi kids to jump off the dam?
OMG THAT PICTURE IS THE FUNNIEST! IM STILL LAUGHIN AT IT!