So Ted Rall pens an offensive cartoon about Pat Tillman, and MSNBC pulls it. Business as usual, although this statement from MSNBC made me giggle:
MSNBC.com pulled a cartoon by syndicated political cartoonist Ted Rall on Monday.
Rall
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Jon Henke
Low.
(Or, was that a rhetorical question?)
JKC
Gack.
I’ve always thought Rall was a moron. Thanks for proving me right.
HH
Howard Dean warmly welcomed his endorsement… Wondering what Kerry might do.
Ricky
That one oughtta get him booked on Maher again.
Chris P
People like Ted Rall and the Gonzalez kid at UMass really burn me up. While I fully support their rights to free speech and freedom of the press to express their viewpoints and print their nonsense, have they never heard of common decency? Or common sense?
For those willing to smear Pat Tillman, or anyone who gives up what he did to fight and die for a cause in which they believe, ask yourself this: If you were in his shoes, and the cause was a cause in which you believed, would you be willing to forgo millions of dollars in salary per year and a life of luxury to fight for your cause knowing the probability you would be killed was high? Answer honestly now.
And let’s not forget he never brought attention to himself over this. He refused to give interviews and actually drove out to Denver with his brother to enlist in relative obscurity.
Pat Tillman and countless other dead war veterans gave their lives protecting the very freedoms that Rall and Gonzalez see fit to use engaging in smear campaigns against them. They’re so pathetic, they can’t even recognize that fact. They abuse these freedoms and it’s a slap in the face to every veteran…and every American…who supports the rights laid out in our Constitution. Rall’s cartoon and Gonzalez’s column are worthy of two things: lining birdcages and picking up dogshit.
HH
Rall said that Tillman should have stayed and left the poor people of Iraq and Afghanistan alone… yes, the poor dears would be better off under Saddam and Mullah Omar…
Kimmitt
What a bizarre contention — that Afghanistan, which was essentially ruled by a junta that answered to bin Laden — had nothing to do with 9/11. The comic wasn’t particularly offensive as far as it went (I found the news of Tillman’s death to be sad, and (separately from Tillman) I feel that Bush has blood on his hands from all of the soldiers who’ve died on his Iraq misadventure), but the counterfactual necessary to believe that our actions in Afghanistan are irrelevant to 9/11 is just psychotic.
Chris P
“The comic wasn’t particularly offensive as far as it went…”
So, a comic that implies that Pat Tillman:
1) enlisted in the Army for the sole purpose of killing Arabs (first panel)
2) was dumb as a stump (second panel)
3) was a mindless automaton who indiscriminately killed innocent civilians and let museums burn (third panel) and finally
4) openly mocks him by calling him an “idiot” and a “sap”
wasn’t “particularly offensive” to Kimmitt. But he found his death to be sad. How nice. I wonder if Pat Tillman’s friends and family thought that Rall’s comic “wasn’t particularly offensive.” The levels of insensitivity and disrespect expressed by Rall and Kimmitt are truly astounding.
keith edge
I just kinda wish I could beat Rall to death with a hammer right about now. I’m not wanting to censor him or shut him up or any of that garbage; I want him dead.
Kimmitt
Okay, I totally did not read that first panel carefully. I take it all back; that panel puts the comic clearly over the line.
Oliver!
How could you let pass the great news for your frequent poster Oliver Willis? Now you can say “I knew him when…”
Oliver got a job with David Brock’s new foundation, and moved to DC!
Details at his blog.
CadillaqJaq
At long last! A liberal with an ability to reason…
CadillaqJaq
(talkin’ about Kimmit)
HH
The first panel attacks the military with a broad brush (really, the entire strip does), saying that they’re all idiots who don’t read newspapers.
Chris P
Amen, CadillaqJaq. Props to Kimmitt for choosing decency over partisan politics.
shark
Seeing as they just hired Oliver, we can expect that endeavour to fail miserably. They’d be marginally better off getting the DU or MoveON kooks to work…
Andrew J. Lazarus
I’ve appreciated some of Ted Rall’s other work (including his essay repenting of voting for Ralph), even many that wouldn’t go over well at this blog.
But this one was over the line. I think I can tolerate offensive, but offensive plus stupid is too much.
shark
No Andrew, Rall is just channeling some of that Vietnam War worldview that you people never escape from
:) j/k!
Trump
“The cartoon, like others on MSNBC.com, is published daily on the site via an automated syndication feed. Such feeds are rarely reviewed”
Boy, this doesn’t say much for MSNBC journalistic standards, does it?
Kimmitt
MSNBC are the folks who gave Michael Savage a TV show. I’m pretty sure they’re in thrall to the Ratings Gods and have very little in the way of journalistic standards for their opinion providers.
Far North
Rall strip can’t be any more offensive to conservatives than FOX news is to liberals. Get over it.
HH
Yeah and MSNBC pulled Savage too.
They have the right to pull whoever they want, like Disney has the right to pull Mikey’s movie, crushing Harrrvey Weinstein’s big dream of a documentary that hurts Republicans during an election year again.
HH
“Rall strip can’t be any more offensive to conservatives than FOX news is to liberals.”
What has Fox said that remotely resembles attacking a dead man for fighting against terrorists in Afghanistan and saying he was stupid and not fighting for his country?
IXLNXS
Seems to me the Tillman death has been exploited by both sides, and bloggers, and cartoonist, long enough.
His family just had the memorial today, and the statements didn;t sound like poster material.
Let it go.
Chris P
I don’t see how expressing outrage over the insensitivity and disrespect shown to a dead American soldier fighting for a cause in which he believed is exploitation. Exploitation is using his death and unsolicited celebrity to advance one’s personal agenda and earn a living…like Ted Rall did.
Far North
HH,
My reference to FOX news is that they expressed “outrage” over the posting of the pictures and the reading of the names of those killed in Irag on Koppel’s nightline. I beleive Koppel meant to honnor those soldiers by acknowleding their sacrifice. FOX news said it was done to make Bush look bad.
I thought FOX news was jsut promoting their conservative agenda.
That’s what I mean when I said that FOX news is just as offensive to Liberals as Rall’s strip was to conservatives.
Flagwaver
Far North,
” I BELEIVE 9sic) Koppel meant to honnor those soldiers by acknowleding their sacrifice. FOX news said it was done to make Bush look bad.
I THOUGHT FOX news was jsut promoting their conservative agenda.”
And you base these beliefs and “thoughts” on what, exactly, other than your knee-jerk opposition to all things even remotely conservative?
You take Ted Koppel’s defense at face value, while immediately discounting Fox News’ statements . . . No, you’re not partisan or anything, are you.
Sheesh. Some people need an empiricism check. Can you say “cognitive dissonance,” Far North?
HH
“My reference to FOX news is that they expressed “outrage” over the posting of the pictures and the reading of the names of those killed in Irag on Koppel’s nightline.”
In actuality, they said that they were going to provide context to the deaths… they weren’t really “outraged” that it happened per se. And I’m not exactly sure how this remotely compares… people can disagree reasonably over whether a news organization has an agenda when they lie about their motives repeatedly. Not the same as attacking Tillman as a racist moron.
JKC
Another liberal blogger calling Rall on his idiocy.
Dorian
Chris P
Jim
What has Fox said that remotely resembles attacking a dead man for fighting against terrorists in Afghanistan and saying he was stupid and not fighting for his country?
how about repeatedly reporting “discoveries” of WMD in Iraq, but NEVER reporting when they were proved false??? hmmmmmmm
cartoon was over the top in my mind, but at the end of the day you need to shock people to get them to unlug from the matrix… tillman was a fool for giving up a nice life to not make one bit of difference in the war… he died for nothing and he’s dirt in the ground..
and by the way, if i ever see ann coulter on the street, i will knock her the fukk out mike tyson style…
Far North
No, Flagwaver, I formed my opinion of the FOX news reaction after listening Brit Hume and company say “Koppel is doing this to make George Bush look bad”.
HH,
I don’t understand what FOX News means by saying they will provide “context” to the deaths. Does that mean that they think Koppel didn’t explain why their live were sacrificed? Don’t you think FOX news along with other cable networks, network news, talk radio and national newspapers have been providing “context” on this for the last 14 months?
The coverage of Iraq has been nothing but each news organization’s version of “context”. Koppel made the case that to put Iraq in proper context, we needed to acknowledge those that sacrificed their lives. Until nightline showed those photos, many people thought that that “context” was what was missing from Iraq coverage all along.
Nightline showed us the faces of the few Americans who were asked to actually sacrifice something to make Iraq what is is today.
Far North
Unfortunately, what Iraq is today is one big goat roping clusterfuck. I agree with Jim. Our soldiers were sacrificed for nothing.
shark
Gee Far North, why don’t you bitch and moan over a REAL clusterfuck called Koscovo. We STILL have troops there and the slaughter continues.
Oh, i forgot….the President with a (D) after his name did that war.
So you look the other way.
Hypocrite
Far North
What the hell does Kosovo have to do with Iraq?
BTW, I didn’t express a view on Kosovo. How do you know what my take on it is? How can you call me a hypocrite when you don’t have any comparative reference?
So, in Shark world, no one can criticize the goat rope in Iraq unless Kosovo and Clinton are slammed?
Yea, I’m a hypocrite………..Way to elevate the discussion, shark. You sure are a smart and witty conservative.
HH
“how about repeatedly reporting ‘discoveries’ of WMD in Iraq, but NEVER reporting when they were proved false??? ”
So Fox News has yet to report the David Kay stuff, for example? Don’t be disingenuous.
Even CNN’s Aaron Brown admitted there wasn’t enough of what went on in Iraq outside Fallujah… the idea that the good things in Iraq have gotten any real attention is laughable.
HH
“Until nightline showed those photos, many people thought that that “context” was what was missing from Iraq coverage all along.”
Utter baloney, as CBS and PBS had already been doing the exact same thing, without going on a media tour to talk about what they were doing and without doing it exclusively during sweeps (denying they even knew it was sweeps). The media reports the number dead on a regular basis. The idea that people have to see the exact names and photos to understand what that means is condescending elitism at its worst.
HH
Sullivan has been collecting the handful of lefty bloggers condemning Rall… I note the absence of the names Atrios, “sensible centrist” Kevin Drum and Kos, for instance.
Far North
OK HH, Iraq is going well.
We’re going to have good days and bad days.
People are going to die because that’s what happens in war.
That’s the cost of freedom. Our soldiers had to die because our freedom was threatened.
Remember, they hate us for our freedom.
Iraq is the center in the war on terror.
I’m a wartime president.
In what could very well be the smoking gun that the Bush administration was looking for, US forces have uncovered what appears to be conclusive evidence of Saddam Huessin’s hidden weapons program. Oh, never mind…
Our intelligence is darn good.
What’s the difference?
Bring it on.
Mission Accomplished.
I was honorably discharged.
No, I can’t think of any mistakes I’ve ever made.
I’m a wartime president.
They hate our us because of our freedom.
Stay the course.
THE EVER SO COMFORTING AND INSPIRING WORDS OF OUR STRONG AND DECISIVE LEADER
Feel better, conservatives? Thought so.
Far North
Go ahead folks, follow the unelected fraud off the the cliff. Defend every friggen thing he’s done or hasn’t done. When the going gets tough, blame Clinton. Hold no one in the Bush White House responsible for anything bad that happens. Bin Laden never said a time or a date, so what do want Bush to do? Cancel vacation? Clinton should have done more.
Why don’t you conservatives pick a leader with some integrity, like McCain. McCain understands the cost of war. Just like John Kerry does. Bush understands what it costs to avoid a war. Not for the country, for himself
Far North
The next conservative posts won’t be a defense of why Bush is a good leader. They won’t focus on all the great things Bush has accomplisehd, rather it’ll be the typical conservative spin or Limbaugh talking point of the day about how all the Bush critics are immoral, lack basic intelligence and secretly back Castro as the next US president.
Chris P
Dorian,
Actually, Tillman died in Afghanistan, but your point is well taken. The numbers are probably around the same (or lower) for Afghanistan and oversensationalized by the media. Thanks for the statistics.
Jim,
You are the fool, and a materialistic one at that, if you think sacrificing the good life to defend a cause in which you believe is foolish. If you don’t believe in the war, fine, that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. But don’t go around slamming honorable soldiers for enlisting in the military to defend your right to sit on your ass at home and criticize the war and anyone involved in it. Maybe he didn’t make a difference in the war by his being there, but at least he TRIED to make a difference. That’s a hell of a lot more than you can say.
Far North,
I generally don’t agree with your views, but you and I do agree on one thing. McCain has more integrity in his pinkie than Bush has in his entire body, mind, and soul. I was prepared to vote for McCain when he ran last time, but he dropped out. I don’t align myself with any political party, I vote for who I think will do the best job. I didn’t vote for Bush last time (or Gore), and I won’t vote for Bush this time (or Kerry). I will probably write in McCain. He’s the only one worthy of being President as far as I’m concerned.
Ricky
Far North,
If your goal was to present yourself as a DU loon, mission accomplished. I only chime in because drive-by posters like you somehow revel in the notion that you’re really “socking it to” various folks on the right, when we generally chalk up your ilk to tin-foil hat nuts & ignore you.
Prepare to either be denigrated or ignored.
Chris P,
A true follower of McCain would know that he never dropped out of the presidential primaries and never officially ended his campaign.
Chris P
Ricky,
You got me. I knew who he was at the time, but didn’t follow all that closely until maybe two years ago. I was under the impression that he stepped aside. My bad. In my effort to respond to three posts at once, I got sloppy. Rest assured I’m a true follower now. Thanks for the correction.
Chris P
No offense Ricky, but you don’t appear to be a true follower of McCain yourself. I just did some checking and found this analysis of McCain’s 2000 campaign on Politics 1.com which verifies my original impression:
“After running a surprisingly strong insurgent campaign against Bush — and winning primaries in New Hampshire, Michigan, Arizona, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Vermont — McCain withdrew from the race on March 9, 2000 after losing the “Big 3″ Super Tuesday contests in California, New York and Ohio. Despite some calls to do so and favorable poll numbers, McCain also stated that he would not continue his campaign as an Independent or third party candidate — and he subsequently endorsed Bush in May 2000.”
But don’t believe me, check for yourself:
http://www.politics1.com/mccain.htm
Ricky
Chris,
IIRC, he “suspended” his campaign, instead of officially ending it, withdrawing and endorsing Bush (which he took a loooooooooong time doin).
Chris P
Suspended, withdrew, ended, dropped out…it sounds like semantics to me. The bottom line is he stopped running.
Kimmitt
Yeah, that’s not really a fair accusation; there are a decent number of gradations of “not running” which have little effect on the average voter.