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You are here: Home / The Swift and Ugly Truth

The Swift and Ugly Truth

by John Cole|  May 5, 20045:25 pm| 18 Comments

This post is in: Democratic Stupidity

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The only real comments I have about the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is that:

A.) Kerry brought this all on himself.

B.) Kerry brought this all on himself.

C.) Kerry brought this all on hismelf.

D.) The delicious irony that the party whose main platform is “Anyone But Bush” now has a group countering with “Anyone But Kerry.”

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18Comments

  1. 1.

    Terry

    May 5, 2004 at 6:55 pm

    Given all of the bitching and moaning about alleged insults and injustices done to Max Cleland during his reelection campaign two years ago, one would think that some on the Left would be more restrained when attacking several hundred Vietnam war veterans, including not a few that received numerous medals for valor. I guess the reason is that a near total absence of character in themselves leads to attacks on perceived enemies as “liars,” as illustrated by two Lefties’ comments on the Swift Boat veterans:

    “One really does wonder why these guys dishonor themselves and their service by being such liars.” atrios, 5/5/04

    “Bottom line…these guys are pathetic, proveable liars.” Hesiod, 5/5/04

  2. 2.

    HH

    May 5, 2004 at 9:45 pm

    “Proveable” in Hesiod-speak is “whatever horseshit I can get my gullible readers to buy.”

  3. 3.

    Kimmitt

    May 5, 2004 at 10:10 pm

    I’ll wait until a news organization that I’ve actually heard of investigates O’Neill’s claims, and if you had any intellectual honesty left, you would too.

  4. 4.

    HH

    May 5, 2004 at 11:57 pm

    It’s not just O’Neill of course, though the left wishes it was. There are many people, some who once defended Kerry, in this group.

  5. 5.

    Kimmitt

    May 6, 2004 at 3:49 am

    …or so Mr. O’Neill claims. Again, I’ll wait a bit and see.

  6. 6.

    John Cole

    May 6, 2004 at 6:08 am

    Kimmitt-

    Mr. O’Neill’s claims, true or false, do not change my opinion, which is why Istated this is all that I have to comment about.

    Kerry brought this on himself.

  7. 7.

    HH

    May 6, 2004 at 8:42 am

    “…or so Mr. O’Neill claims.”

    He only CLAIMS that many vets are in his group? So what, were those people at the Natl. Press Club a hologram?

    I really wish there’d be some consistency here… either you’re allowed to criticize vets or not.

  8. 8.

    CadillaqJaq

    May 6, 2004 at 2:18 pm

    HH, at this point in the discussion re: Vietman, we are not allowed to criticize either the Vietnam Campaign nor the veterans (unless they are idiots enough to be criticizing war Hero Kerry) because suddenly the left has revised it’s original anti-war thinking from the 70s. Now, today, the Vietnam debacle is/was an honorable undertaking, a defense of our country.

    Where in hell do these people find those streams that flow in both directions? I can understand why they love John Kerry.

  9. 9.

    Kimmitt

    May 6, 2004 at 2:22 pm

    “I really wish there’d be some consistency here… either you’re allowed to criticize vets or not.”

    Okay, I’ll lay it out for you:

    Conservatives have been playing these bullshit games for decades, calling into question the patriotism of anyone who whistleblows on the military or supports a less insane foreign policy. Kerry’s taking a page from your book, and now you’re complaining because you’ve suddenly realized that it’s unfair. Well, yeah. Suck it up. It’s your game; it’s not our fault that we finally learned how to play it.

  10. 10.

    LSU Student

    May 6, 2004 at 11:46 pm

    Kimmitt, my man, don’t worry about this. This is GOOD for Kerry. Can it be any other way? I love this. It’s only attacks like this that keep all those terribly impressive accounts of Kerry’s service in the news. Let it stay there.

    If you’re interested in some counterpunches, Atrios points here

  11. 11.

    Kimmitt

    May 7, 2004 at 3:17 am

    I think you missed my point; I’m not defending Kerry. He’s a symptom of the rot which has taken hold of our politics. It’s just that we need to be clear about where the rot originates.

  12. 12.

    Ricky

    May 7, 2004 at 9:19 am

    Ah, I see.
    It’s the fault of the right that Kerry’s waiving the patriotism flag.

    Funny how that’s always the case, huh? It seems almost……kneejerk (in a blind partisan sort of way).

  13. 13.

    Tongue Boy

    May 7, 2004 at 3:21 pm

    Since John Kerry can’t seem to talk about pet neutering or carpet cleaning without reference to his combat experience in Vietnam (in contrast to another Presidential candidate who lost to George Bush in the Republican primaries in 2000) AND he is getting no traction on any other issue, he has only himself to blame for the intense scrutiny his service is receiving.

    It’s not really a partisan issue, per se, it is just a consequence of Kerry having nothing else interesting to say to distract the hounds of the press.

    Besides, the story really isn’t getting that much play. I wonder, though, how much play a story about dozens of Bush’s service contemporaries questioning his fitness to be C-in-C would get?

    Just kidding, I don’t wonder at all…

  14. 14.

    Tongue Boy

    May 7, 2004 at 3:26 pm

    “Given all of the bitching and moaning about alleged insults and injustices done to Max Cleland during his reelection campaign two years ago…”

    Funny thing, this topic seems to periodically resurface, rather like oil seepage from the ocean bottom. Yet, I have yet to see a single link, quote or other citation of this supposed “questioning Cleland’s patriotism” no matter how many times I ask. And, no, I’m not talking about Billy Bob Carp’s letter to the Macon Used Car Gazette, either…

  15. 15.

    Kimmitt

    May 7, 2004 at 7:17 pm

    “It’s the fault of the right that Kerry’s waiving the patriotism flag.”

    It’s the fault of the Right that the only politicians who can get elected are the ones who relentlessly wave the patriotism flag.

  16. 16.

    Steverino

    May 7, 2004 at 9:31 pm

    “I’ll wait until a news organization that I’ve actually heard of investigates O’Neill’s claims, and if you had any intellectual honesty left, you would too.”

    I don’t remember you waiting for any information before making accusations about Bush’s service in the National Guard. So, by your own logic, you have no intellectual honesty left.

  17. 17.

    Kimmitt

    May 7, 2004 at 10:53 pm

    “I don’t remember you waiting for any information before making accusations about Bush’s service in the National Guard.”

    Er . . . Bush’s National Guard service was discussed in 2000 and covered extensively then, by reputable news agencies. I’d formed an opinion based on that, long before it came up again this year.

  18. 18.

    StuckInOregon

    May 8, 2004 at 4:19 pm

    This is what happens when a man gets the idea in his head that he is a hero. While I was in the Military I worked with some real heros. Men who had worn the big one.CMH, Navy Cross, Bronze star, and Silver Star, but none them got out of the military and began announcing to the world that they were heros. A good bunch quietly left the military and settled into a quiet life out of th elime-light.
    From the history of Sen. John F Kerry that I have so far been able to reasearch is a hot dog and grand stander as long as he is going to directly benefit from it, in some way. He waits for the wind to blow to see which ship he is going to jump to. Depending on the volatility of the situation he waits to see who is going to be the victor prior to making a statement. He is going to be a poll driven President if he is elected. Instead of being a preemtive President he is going to be reactive. Kimmitt stated in his post that Kerry was an outstanding officer as written by prior Superior Officers. If officer evals are done the same way as enlisted, they bring out the book and start writing the eval. If the officer hasn’t managed to get the CO pissed off at him they are always given a outstanding and promising. Which in Military speak is does his job and doesn’t make waves. Attends Functions and looks neat and presentable in his uniform. You have to work pretty hard to get a bad Eval as a junior officer. Like pee in the potted plants at the Officer’s club or some other heinous crime.
    I knoew other officers that were sleeping with enlisted personnel, getting blasted on weekends, and hiding in thier offices every day. They still got outstanding on their evals. That way the commanding officer didn’t have to take time to write what the evaled officer was required to fix before the next eval period.
    As you see I agree with John,
    Kerry brought this on himself.
    he should have came out the gate telling you whathe is going to do instead he came out the gate calling Bush a big poopy head.
    I am still waiting to hear where the FLIP-FLOP man stands on the issues.
    As for asking the UN for Help, We are the police force of the UN. They aren’t going to upset the apple cart. Privately I would not be surprised to learn teh France, Germany and Russia were glad that 9\11 happened to us. They had been living with terrorism for years and not doing a damn thing about it. just appeasing the terrorists sos that it was business as usual in those countries.
    Along came a President with a set of cojones and said we taking this. And took the fight to the terrorists. So he is being accused of nation building which is pure bullsh*t. He is doing what he has to do to try and protect us from future attacks. You will notice that every attack after 9\11 has been in a different country and not on our shores. Sorry that the post is so long

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