Alright, Ezra, DU denizens, and Clinton supporters:
Why SHOULD Clinton speak at Reagan’s funeral?
Bear in mind, the only reason a Democrat spoke at Nixon’s funeral was because clinton was the current President, I believe Nixon was the only Republican (he was the sitting President) to speak at LBJ’s state funeral, and no Republicans gave eulogies at JFK’s funeral.
So, explain to me- Why should Clinton speak at Reagan’s funeral, and shouldn’t Reagan and his family have a say in the matter?
*** Update ***
Stupid Comment #1- “For balance. To make the whole thing non-partisan.”
Someone take the time to explain non-partisan, partisan, and bi-partisan to these people. I have lost the desire to try to even talk to the intentionally obtuse.
Bitter Mastermind
Having at least one president from the opposite party speak at the public state funeral of another president goes back to LBJ (as you helpfully point out). Yes, they were sitting presidents. Which would have made it particularly classy to expand that tradition for Reagan and have all of our last three living presidents speak at the funeral of their predecessor. It would have made it seem like an even more genuine remembrance of the best qualities of a man, regardless of one’s political position.
Contrast this with using Reagan’s corpse as the podium for a cheap campaign commercial, which is a somewhat less classy gesture, no?
Hope that clears things up.
And now, I go to happy hour to raise a toast to pragmatic presidents who knew the limits of tax cuts.
Clang
For balance. To make the whole thing non-partisan.
You have the 41st president and the 43rd president speaking. The 42nd president happens to be free that day, why exclude him?
shark
The present president speaks. The 41st will speak because he was Reagans V.P.
Clinton should speak because…..he’s got a book to sell? He wants one more romp in the spotlight?
Go pull out your Wellstone memorials videotapes, then get back to me
shark
By the way, through his whining, Clinton has once again found a way to make it all about him.’
Sad.
Dean
Where in the world are people coming up w/ this stuff?? There is NO TRADITION of having a President from the other party speak?!?? The SITTING President speaks. If it’s from the same party, that’s how it goes?!
And where are people getting this idea that the Nixon funeral was not paid by the government? There was a military honor guard, the President attended, THEY CLOSED FEDERAL OFFICES. I’m not sure what makes people think that, somehow, it’s not a state-funded affair??
Patrick
Bitter Nomind,
Your link must be broken. It takes me to a memorial page, which says nothing about the upcoming campaign or the candidate. Please update, or STFU.
Clang
“Someone take the time to explain non-partisan, partisan, and bi-partisan to these people.”
I’m waiting.
Guess nobody else could figure out what you meant by that either.
So balance strikes you as stupid, huh?
Clang
“shouldn’t Reagan and his family have a say in the matter?”
Didn’t Reagan pass on recently? I thought I saw something about that somewhere…
Ricky
Clang,
Go to a dictionary & look up “will”. People have been knon to prepare them.
Glad you tried smarmy sarcasm?
Terry
This whole discussion is almost laughable. Since when have “speaking roles” at dead President’s funerals been “partisan” or “non-partisan?” The speakers at prior funerals have been determined by the wishes of the dead President, to the extent he had communicated them through a will or other means, and/or of the family. In the Reagan’s case, the speakers are a mix of both elements, with the late President having requested certain speakers years ago, e.g., Lady Thatcher, and by Mrs. Reagan. The only element of historic protocol involved concerns the role of the sitting President at the time of the death of the predecessor President.
Without any doubt the most ludicrous and shameless whining is that coming from Nancy Pelosi and her complaint about being excluded for “narrow partisan purposes.” Given the many slanders and vicious comments she has made about the late President over the past two decades, that’s one slimy slug that Mrs. Reagan correctly ignored.
Bitter Mastermind
Your link must be broken. It takes me to a memorial page, which says nothing about the upcoming campaign or the candidate.
Patrick, that link is to the front page of George W Bushs main campaign website, which was recently transformed into a very sincere Regan memorial.
Now stick with me here — the candidate is George W Bush.
I guess the rest of my comment about class and bipartisanship didn’t make any sense to you, but I hope that helps you out some.
Jeff G
We shall not rest until every American is allowed to speak at Reagan’s funeral!
Bitter Mastermind
Dear Terry:
There are private memorials for the Reagan family. But I believe we’re talking about the “National” funeral service here, the state funeral for a past head of state. Can you imagine a role at such a service for past heads of state? If you cannot, there is no further discussion. But if you can, can you also see how honorable a gesture it would be to have such a memorial include past heads of state, regardless of party? Or is that a world you can’t even imagine?
I have lost the desire to try to even talk to the intentionally obtuse.
Dear Mr. Juice:
I know you are, but what am I?
Jeff G:
Continue raising the bar of discourse!
Jeff G
We shall not rest until every American is equal at the bar of discourse!
Bitter Mastermind
You go ahead and buy the next round of discourse. I’m heading back to the bar…
Terry
Bitter – I stand entirely behind my original comments, which are conclusively reinforced by precedent, history, logic, common sense, and family wishes.
After years of denigrating speeches and comments about Ronald Reagan, SUDDENLY Democrats feel an uncontrollable urge to speak and say nice things about him at his funeral. It is transparently clear that their ONLY motivation is a concern that somehow or other their failure to make an appearance in an election year will redound to the benefit of the Republicans who are speaking. My only reaction is: Tough Shit! I agree that there is no basis for further discussion.
Jeff G
Sigh. Always asking for a handout…
Bender Bending Rodriguez
Why did Bob Dole speak at Nixon’s funeral? He and Nixon didn’t get along.
Bitter Mastermind
Terry, wanting to have people from both parties speak at a state funeral is merely the vain hope that this man’s death could be more than a crass opportunity for “redound to the benefit of the Republicans.” You have abundantly proven that such hope is in vain, so as you wish, end of discussion.
Jeff G:
I seem to have bought the last several rounds of discourse, my man. Are you ever gunna chip in? Or are you just going to complain about discourse handouts while you yourself are riding fat and high on the discourse of others?
HH
Yes we need “balance” on the issue of whether Reagan was a great man at his FUNERAL…
Bitter Mastermind
HH:
STATE funeral. At National Cathedral.
But if this is supposed to be a party affair, then the RNC probably has lovely facilities available.
Jeff G
We shall not rest until all discourse is wordy and smarmy!
Bitter Mastermind
I’ll drink to that.
retired military
Tell you what.
Clinton doesnt speak at Reagan’s funeral and Reagan wont speak at Clinton’s funeral.
There perfect balance.
Clang
Ricky:
“Clang,
Go to a dictionary & look up “will”. People have been knon to prepare them.”
And did Reagan specify in his will that Clinton should not be allowed to speak at the state funeral in Reagan’s honor? Did Reagan provide a wish list of speakers in his will?
If he didn’t, then your response has no meaning whatsoever.
“Glad you tried smarmy sarcasm?”
You?
saag paneer
“I have lost the desire to try to even talk to the intentionally obtuse”
Poor John is tired of arguing. He made his smear and got his traffic bumped up (normally Balloon-juice has an average of 6 tedious comments per tedious entry). Now he wants to take his ball and go home – it’s so hard being a partisan hack these days.
John Cole
Saag, you silly troll. If you guys argued in good faith it would be one thing…
Al
If Clinton gets to speak, we should also allow Ralph Nader to speak! Otherwise, we’ll just be perpetuating the duopoly on power that Ralphie’s always talking about.
Also, who was the Republican who spoke at Paul Wellstone’s funeral again? I forgot.
Al
One other thought – why is it that left-wingers always need to turn the personal into the political?
Clang
Al:
“One other thought – why is it that left-wingers always need to turn the personal into the political?”
A state funeral is not a personal matter, but a national one. Now who is to say that it was the left-wingers who made it political? Like I said before, there’s a good case to be made here that it’s the Bushes hogging the spotlight. Couldn’t be for political gain though, Bush isn’t like that.
Clang
Actually, Al, could you name some other incidents of left-wingers ALWAYS NEEDING to turn the personal into the political?
And in order to bolster your assertion, could you conveniently ignore the Clinton years, and anything to do with Ken Starr’s investigations?
DANEgerus
par
John Cole
And, as all state funerals/national affairs in the past, the speakers will include the current President and others of the deceased and the deceased family’s choosing.
You just can not get that through your skull, can you, Clang?
OMG- it is national affair- a state funeral. I hope they don;t mention GOD. What about the separation of church and state?
Although sarcastic, that last comment pretty nicely sums up Clang’s understanding of STATE affairs.
SHIT- Inaugurations are state affairs. We better have bi-partisan speakers at the next one.
Far North
When I want to remind myself what real hypocisy is, I stop by here where I can hear “Wellstone blah blah blah”. But everywhere I turn, it’s the “Reagan leagacy and how Bush must carry on”…..Bringing hyprocrisy to the stratosphere…..introducing the new century conservative.
How ’bout a trivia question? In the early 1980s, who nurtured and supported the group that later came to be known as the Taliban?
Give up? Why, it’s the man of the hour: Ronald Reagan. Yes folks, our hero supported Islamic Fundamentalists because they were fighting the USSR. That’s the same Islamic Fundamentalism that starred one Osama bin Laden. The same bin Laden with those wonderous ties to the pretend Reagan, George W. Bush.
Look it up folks, Reagan’s support gave birth the terrorists that we now are fighting.
On the question of Clinton speaking at Reagan’s funeral, how about because he was the president for 8 of the last 12 years. Oh, I forgot, Clinton can’t speak because we have to uphold the current conservative policy of polarization. Yep, it’s us vs them. Think about it, you’re arguing that you don’t want a man who led this nation for 8 of the last 12 years to pay his respects. Way to keep the polarization alive.
frontinus
How about all you people who think this matters politically put your heads together and scrape together a few facts before pointing fingers?
I went ahead and started the leg work….
I compiled a list of dead presidents from 1900 and the presidents in office at the time of the funeral. If you’re looking for precedents the only ones that matter are those that died while a president from their party was in office. These are:
William McKinley(1901)Teddy Roosevelt–both R
W.H. Taft(1930)Herbert Hoover–both R
Warren Harding(1923)Calvin Coolidge–both R
Calvin Coolidge(1933)Herbert Hoover–both R
Franklin Roosevelt(1945)Harry Truman–both D
Dwight Eisenhower(1969)Richard Nixon–both R
John Kennedy(1963)Lyndon Johnson–both D
You can pretty much disregard McKinley since I think the last Democrat president before him was Andrew Johnson and he was long dead by 1901. That leaves you with Taft, Harding, Coolidge, FDR, Eisenhower, and Kennedy. I’d suggest starting with their presidential libraries to find a list of those who delivered eulogies.
Hopefully we can get all the evidence for an objective review sometime before 1/20/5. Have fun.
frontinus
Far North:
Oooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Was it the same guy who did it in 1979? If not do I get a second guess?
saag paneer
Silly troll? Moi?
Hey, I wasn’t trying to insinuate that your traffic sucks unless you get into pointless partisan bickering while you are trying to hide from posting on any real topics…
Why do you need traffic from Pandagon when you’ve got freaking blogads for the “George Bush Old World Santa”!!!!! Wow!
J Mann
Clinton should speak at the funeral:
1) Because the funeral is a national, public event;
2) Because Clinton is a former president of the US, and deserves respect for that if nothing else;
3) Because he’ll do a good job;
4) H*ll, if Gorbachev wanted to speak, and if the speach wouldn’t be offensive, I’d let him.
Now, *Carter* (or Big Fat Teddy K) would be a harder call.
Slartibartfast
Gerald Ford will be there, and he won’t be eulogizing. I’m hearing precious little outrage from either side at the snubbing of Gerald Ford.
Maybe it is partisan, after all. Just not the way some are making it out to be.
Slartibartfast
Why would Carter be a harder call? If you’re demanding Clinton, you’ve got to demand Carter as well. And Ford. Let’s not forget about Ford.
John Cole
That sounds great J Mann- I hope you have some luck getting clinton to speak at YOUR funeral.
Reading comprehension, folks.
poormedicalstudent
far north makes yet another blunder, commonplace for many leftists. just because we supported someone in the past in our fight against communism, does not mean we cannot fight against them now, nor does it mean we implicitly ‘created’ osama bin laden and al qaida.
i used to donate money to greenpeace, thinking it was the right thing for our environment. then the organization went wacko and started stealing, blocking, breaking, spray-painting, etc. in order to push their agenda. does that mean i was implicit in creating this organization of enviro-terrorists, and am therefore subject to partial blame for their actions? if you answer anything but ‘No’, you’re being intellectually dishonest to prevent conceding your point is wrong.
Dorian
Far North,
Ricky
>>”And did Reagan specify in his will that Clinton should not be allowed to speak at the state funeral in Reagan’s honor?
As if there’s a list of “do not invite” people w/in wills, especially Reagan’s. What next, demands of proof that he didn’t beat Nancey?
Good lord.
RW
Is this a good time to point far north to the pic of Rosalyn Certer with Gacy?
Rick
Jeebus, all this for that pudgy crybaby Clinton.
Maybe we can propose a national consens: that when some cuckolded husband finally throttles WJC, no ‘Pubbie ex-presidents speak at his State Funeral.
As long as we’re dreaming, in the spirit of *Inter*national bonhommie, at that occasion maybe we should observe the former Asian Indian practice of the suttee.
I’ve got a light. ;)
Cordially…
Andrew | BYTE BACK
Boy – Democrats are chewed if they say bad things about Reagan after his death. They’re chewed if they say good things.
Nice trap.
FU. (just like DU, except for even more swearing).
Veeshir
Of course Clinton should speak at the funeral. It will need an egotistical liar who will drone of for hours trying to sell his book and pick up chicks.
Don’t I remember they kept some Republicans from even attending Paul Wellstone’s funeral?
Man, hypocrisy is a fine art in the Left these days. That and rude, misdirective hyperbole. Now if only they could get some facts on their side they’d be all set.
HH
A “STATE” funeral is still a funeral. The state doesn’t make the call on who speaks, the family and the decease do, period. If you have a problem with that, it’s the least of your problems.
“Contrast this with using Reagan’s corpse as the podium for a cheap campaign commercial, which is a somewhat less classy gesture, no?”
Never mind Kerry using the “optimist” talking point in regards to Reagan and making an “Optimist” commercial.
Margaret
I do not think any president should be entitled to a state funeral at which anyone should be asked to speak if he did not die in office. This has always been and will always be a political (read divisive) office. Who was or was not a great president is strictly a matter of taste. This is a democracy, not a monarchy…remember???
Kimmitt
“This has always been and will always be a political (read divisive) office.”
Believe it or not, things didn’t used to be quite as bad as they are now. According to the Conservatives, the plunge into utter viciousness is an extended payback for the Senate Democrats’ decision to block Judge Bork’s nomination to the Supreme Court on purely ideological grounds. This is consistent with the conservative mindset (also exhibited by DANEgerous upthread): an encompassing and all-consuming victimization complex.
Slartibartfast
What makes you think there’s anything at all divisive or vindictive at work here, Kimmitt? Other than a predisposition to think that of Republicans in general, that is.
Kimmitt
My understanding is that the family has more or less total control, so there’s no reason to think that anything is divisive or vindictive at play in this instance.
matt
Tomorrow Rush will air some of the “respectful” disourse from Mr. Wellstone’s funeral
Mike
This is not a “family” funeral, this is a State event, paid for by our tax dollars. If two of our former Presidents are banned from speaking, why is a war criminal like Thatcher allowed? This woman’s government led the world in human rights abuses throughout the ’80s; she allowed one of her own members of Parliament to die on hunger strike in 1981, along with 9 other POWs; she invaded Argentina in 1982 while President Reagan chose to ignore the Monroe Doctrine………..The fact that this former head of the country from which we fought to achieve independence from has precedence over two of our own former heads of state makes my stomach turn
Dean
So few lines, so many mistakes:
The IRA counts as POWs? No wonder respect for the Geneva Convention has ebbed. Failed suicide bombers next, I suppose.
Invaded Argentina? Either you believe that Argentina owned the Falklands/Malvinas in the first place (in which case, they were invaded a LONG time ago), or you don’t, in which case it was retaking them.
BANNED from speaking? What, the cops are gonna take away Mr. Carter and Mr. Clinton?? Just wondering, if Rush Limbaugh isn’t asked to speak at YOUR funeral, is he banned? What, it’s not state-funded? I guess the State of the Union should have ex-Presidents speak as well?
Phil
Good heavens . . . the fact that it is a State funeral doesn’t mean the state gets to make all decision pursuant to its execution. It’s just a set of formal honors to which certain people who have served the country in certain ways are entitled. It’s the civil service equivalent of a military interment at Arlington. Do you think the state should get to decide who speaks at those funerals, too?
Terry
I’ve read a lot of fact-challenged bile over the years, but the moronic rant above by “Mike” ranks near the top in terms of its sheer idiocy. Fortunately, I note that “Dean” has already corrected the more important aspects.
Davehyzy
The only correct response for a “liberal” is to back off and let the Plutocrats have their pomp and ceremony. Making an issue over who speaks at the funeral obscures a real discussion of Reagan’s impact on this country. With bands playing and flags waving, Reagan re-ignited a blind nationalist fervor that exists to this day. Everyone knows that the plutocrats and their minions own “patriotism” and are smugly assured of the “righteousness of their cause”. If you don’t believe that, you must be with the terrorists. This modern use of “us vs. them” had it’s genesis with Reagan. That
Terry
I stand corrected. The post by “Davehyzy” is even more moronic, stupid, asinine, and absurd than that posted earlier by “Mike.” It doesn’t even warrant a rebuttal as it is so patently silly on its face. DU and atrios must be shut down and the loons are roving around the blogosphere.
Davehyzy
“Terry”, thanks for making my point. Is there any oxygen up there on your high horse?
Kimmitt
If you take the time to go through the archives on this site, you will see that Terry’s a bloody idiot more or less without interruption. It’s just one of those things.
Rick
Now Davehyzy is manifestly another of those things.
Cordially…
Terry
….and Kimmitt is only one step removed from institutionalization. In fact, some of his effluence suggests that he may actually be communicating from an asylum.
Joey
From Yahoo News:
Reagan began talking about his funeral in 1981, the year he became president, family representatives said.
He asked George H.W. Bush, when he was vice president, to speak at his funeral, and years ago asked Justice Sandra Day O’Connor (news – web sites)
Slartibartfast
Well, he was 70 years old at the time. Realistically, he only had a few years left.
Dean
So, now that the funeral is over, one has to ask:
How partisan was it? Was it ruined because Bill Clinton wasn’t invited—-oops, sorry, just wasn’t asked to speak? Did that just make it a GOP rally?
Did a GOP guy approach John Kerry and say, “Ronny loved you, you should just drop out of the race?” Any Dems get booed?
Feh.
Mikey
What a collection of uninformed, blathering, leftist maroons you all are. There’s so much whining here you should be providing cheese to go alng with it. In response to the comment about Reagan asking about speakers at his funeral in the beginning of his presidency, do any of rubes realize that it is MANDATORY for an elected President to do that as soon as he takes office, ror obvious reasons? Prattle on you leftist, commie bastards! You lost, so suck it up and get over it. That goes for you Sore-Loserman’s as well.
Amy
Just wanted to point out that our ever-respectful 42nd President of the United States slept through the entire service today.
Marhsall
Why did the Clintons fall asleep at Reagan’s funeral? – don’t suppose they wanted to be noticed do you — how stupid can you get?!?
Paula Dwyer
“there perfect balance”
Yes retired Militaryman, In the end, doesn’t it all boil down to that? Big people talk about ideas, little people talk about other people
Maaze
Every president plans his funeral as soon as he takes office. The funeral plans are updated every year. It’s a requirement.
You quacks make me consider joining the Repulican party. Fuckers!
folkbum
John, some of your readers are seriously delusional about what actually happened at the Wellstone memorial.
The only Republican who was “asked not to attend” was Cheney, for security reasons; the administration sent Tommy Thompson instead. No Republicans were shouted down when trying to speak. Trent Lott was booed, but by so few people it’s hard to hear on the tape (in fact, he smiled and waved when they did it). Not even Norm Coleman, Wellstone’s opponent, was booed!
There was only one elected Democrat who spoke, Iowa’s Tom Harkin, and he did not say anything partisan. Rick Kahn, Wellstone’s best friend, ended his eulogy with a call to win the election for Paul, but those few moments were as bad as it got out of a four hour service.
Someone above said that we should get out the Wellstone memorial tape to watch it. Well, the families have made it available here for anyone who doubts what I’m saying.
Correct
The Reagan funeral was beautiful, despite the clintons being asleep on the front row. The class of Reagan can outshine the dank of the clinton’s anytime. Prince Charles had an excuse for being a little sleepy…it’s called jet lag.
Jules
Both Clintons slept during the ceremony. Some have said that it was calculated to show how bored they were by Bush the Current’s remarks. Myself, I tend to doubt that, because both are politically saavy enough to realize that sleeping, or pretending to sleep, during Reagan’s funeral would only show how tacky and declasse’ they both are.
I think they simply fell asleep. Why? Who knows? Perhaps the tension of actually being in each other’s company drained them of enough energy to stay awake. Or maybe they were up late the night before? Or perhaps they’re both ill?
Whatever the reason, I say, “Bad form, Mr. and Mrs. Clinton! Bad form!”
It was also mentioned that Betty Ford was seen napping. For God’s sake, that woman is 86 years old, compared to Bill, who is 57, and Hillary, who is 56.
Maaze
Thanks Folkbum, I’ve never seen the funeral service, and maybe I’ll go back and watch the whole thing sometime.
Go to the 32 min mark. They start hitting a beach ball around in the audience. That’s all that’s on the camera for a few minutes. I sure hopw when my time comes that the funeral at my service can show a little more respect.
Dean
Yup, so innocuous that the master of ceremonies was embarrassed.
So innocuous that Kahn was called upon to apologize by the Minneapolis paper (or are they run by the Moonies?).
So innocuous that the DFL DID apologize.
Who’d a thunk that the VRWC was so powerful?