Challenge to Oliver and anyone else:
Name ONE (1) black conservative who the NAACP and the black community has not villified, called an Uncle Tom, said to shuck and jive for the white man, or called a plantation negro?
Until you can come up with one, I am calling you the race pimps that you are.
jeff
I can already tell you what they’ll say.
Either A)
“Such rhetoric may be a bit harsh but why any self-respecting black person would align themselves with a party that has always been insensitive and downright hostile to the needs of black people is beyond me”.
or
B) “Compared to the rhetoric coming from Limbaugh/Hannity/Coulter, calling someone an uncle Tom is minor”.
RW
John, I’ve been waiting for one name since December 18, 2002.
Good to know that great minds think alike, though. :)
Terry Reynolds
John – Good for you! You’re absolutely correct. Better to keep ’em all on the plantation than to give up their (assumed) power. You and Bill Cosby are right. Best, Terry
Kimmitt
Jeff’s answer (A) is pretty much correct. Terry’s answer is the usual vile idiocy.
bruce
Ah ain’t gwine uh tawk lack ah wuz smart er nuthin cuz that is ‘actin white’ an i’d sure nevah want any body to hab ta thank I wuz smart… I main ‘white’
bruce
Sorry, use ‘cuz dat be actin white’ back there. I was sounding a little too intelligent, er, ah main ‘white’
capt joe
So how did Gore Senior vote on the civil rights act in the 60s and what party was he in?
Ralph Gizzip
They may choose answer “A” but that would be incorrect. It was, by and large, the Republican party that got civil rights legislation passed in the late ’50’ / early ’60’s. As has been documented many times, a higher percentage of R’s voted FOR the Civil Rights Act than the percentage of D’s. Democrats take credit for its passage because LBJ signed it into law. Don’t forget LBJ’s famous quote, “When I sign this we’ll have the niggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years.” So take that little factoid along with Rob’t Byrd (KKK, WV) and tell me again why the GOP is anti-black.
RALPH
DONT FORGET, IT WAS A REPUBLICAN ANMINISTRATION THAT FREED THE SLAVES. REMEMBER ABRHAM LINCOLN ANYONE??? ALSO, WHEN THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT WAS PASSED IN THE 60’S, THE SOUTHERN DEMOCRATS RAISED THE CONFEDERATE FLAG ON TOP OF THE STATE CAPITAL BUILDINGS THROUGHOUT THE SOUTH. AL GORES DAD WAS ONE OF THOSE SOUTHERN GOVENORS WHO SUPPORTED THE DIXIE FLAG ON TOP OF THE STATE CAPITALS. SOUNDS LIKE BEING HOOD WIGGED AND BAMBOOZZLED IS ALIVE AND WELL IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
willyb
Why should the NAACP be any different than all the other SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS that are aligned with the Democrat party. They never let facts or reason get in the way of promoting the party. They are all pretty much plain and simple political whores.
Kimmitt
Man, this whole “The Dixiecrats have not fled to the Republican Party” meme is seriously alive and well.
Brian
11 comments so far, and NO answer to the original question. Of course.
You should challenge him to name a black Democrat who is top level. he can’t do that either. A few months ago, Oliver posted a dream cabinet under Kerry and didn’t name one black, because the Democrats don’t have one that could come even close to Rod Paige, Colin Powell, and Condi Rice.
It’s a shame. Oliver is very talented, and is wasted it on being a lefty hack who refuses to think for himself.
Ricky
Kimmitt,
I asked you for some names over a month ago.
You punted.
Care to give it a try today?
Let’s see all those Dems who left to go to the GOP because of race.
Don't bogart that J, Kimster
I thought there were limits to human flexibility until I realized just how deeply Kimmitt had burrowed his head up his own ass.
Oliver
Sorry, I was out buying six sacks of BK Whoppers. (Yum !) Did I miss anything?
willyb
“Sorry, I was out buying six sacks of BK Whoppers. (Yum !) Did I miss anything?”
Oliver, you’re supposed to eat the whoppers, not post on your site.
David
TASK :
Name ONE (1) black conservative who the NAACP and the black community has not villified, called an Uncle Tom, said to shuck and jive for the white man, or called a plantation negro?
ANSWER:
Dr. Benjamin Carson
He has been Director of the Division of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins since 1984. He is Professor Neurosurgery, Plastic Surgery, Oncology and Pediatrics. He is also the Co-Director of the Johns Hopkins Craniofacial Center. His practice includes traumatic brain injuries, brain and spinal cord tumors, achondroplasia, neurological and congenital disorders, craniosynostosis, epilepsy, and trigeminal neuralgia. This work includes active research programs.
— Johns Hopkins Website
A committed Christian, Dr. Carson places the values of God and family above all other considerations in his life. He turns for guidance to the word of God, and to his family and church community for strength and the moral compass to keep steady in his endeavors and at peace.
–http://www.drbencarson.com/faith.html
Every time I look into the human brain, I am astounded by its intricate complexities and think about how incredibly smart our Creator is. Whether I am gazing into a baby’s head, or up at the stars at night, I sense God’s presence and the mind-boggling complexity of the universe – so precise one can set one’s watch by it. I see a brilliant and logical God. With every patient and every surgery, I am struck by the miracle of life and the miracles possible within it. I have seen children die, in spite of what we do, and live, despite the odds against them.
–http://www.drbencarson.com/faith.html
As Seventh-Day Adventists, Dr. Carson and his family honor the Sabbath, on which they gather as a family to discuss their faith and how to build upon it. Uninterrupted time, such as this, strengthens the bonds that keep his family whole. “Strong families and values have the added benefit of helping children resist peer pressure,” he notes.
–http://www.drbencarson.com/faith.html
To those who cite racism as the impediment to their success, Carson replies that obstacles of any kind are to be hurdled, and ignorance confronted where ever it’s found. In childhood and in his medical career, he experienced the personal affronts and low expectations of those who judged him by the color of his skin. He refused, however, to allow them to become excuses for inaction, failure, or anger: “I’ve always remembered my mother telling us, even as children, that when it comes to prejudices, some people are just ignorant, and need to be educated.”
–http://www.drbencarson.com/philosophy.html
Dr. Carson is the recipient of numerous honors and awards, sits on the board of several prestigious corporations, and was recently appointed by President George W. Bush to serve on the President’s Council for Bioethics.
Awards
Living Legend Award, Library of Congress Bicentennial (2000); Public Service Award, American Institute for Public Service (2000); Tree of Life Award Recipient, Jewish National Fund (1998); Yale Alumni Fellow, Board of Trustees, Yale Corp., Yale University (1997); Essence Award (1994); Horatio Alger Award, Horatio Alger Society of Distinguished Americans (1994); and numerous honorary doctoral degree
see also http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2002/black.history/stories/02.carson/index.html
Selected Carson Quotes:
“God has given us more than fourteen billion cells and connections in our brain. Why would God give us such a complex organ system unless he expects us to use it?”
“One of my great heroes was Booker T. Washington, who wrote Up from Slavery. He taught himself to read even when it was illegal for slaves, and educated himself to the extent that he became an advisor to presidents. Another was Joseph, from the Bible. Even though bad things happened to him he never said ‘Poor me.’ He worked hard and eventually triumphed. The fact is that bad things, difficult times happen in life. None of us is unique in experiencing them.”
“Taken along with our successes, failure can teach us what we are good at and what we are not, what we enjoy and what we hate. Once we know that, we can use those huge frontal lobes God gave us to better plan our lives.”
“The first step to overcoming hardship has to be a change in attitude. Far too many people today have a victim’s mentality. People with this focus get so overwhelmed by their hardship that they feel paralyzed and powerless. Then, since they aren’t responsible for the seemingly insurmountable obstacles surrounding them, they assume little if any responsibility for tackling those problems.”
“Knowledge is the key that unlocks all the doors. You can be green-skinned with yellow polka dots and come from Mars, but if you have knowledge that people need, instead of beating you, they’ll beat a path to your door.”
Examples of NAACP’s Opinion of Dr. Ben Carson
91ST NAACP NATIONAL CONVENTION
Other speakers and participants include … brain surgeon Dr. Ben Carson …
(note this was the 2000 annual convetion in Baltimore MD)
NAACP Image Awards Nominee 2003 – Outstanding News, Talk or Information, Series or Special:
ABC News Nightline Up Close: Dr. Ben Carson
Harris, an associate professor of education at Fitchburg State College, said at the annual Martin Luther King Jr. breakfast, hosted by the Merrimack Valley branch of the NAACP at DiBurro’s function hall in Bradford … Harris also spoke about Ben Carson, a world-class neurosurgeon who, in his youth, was headed down the wrong path, even tried to stab people, but prayed and meditated and turned his life around.
Toren
Just wait until the Republicans name Dr. Carson (who wrote a fantastic book, BTW) Surgeon General. Then the knives will come out.
And as for an answer to the question, the only one I can think of is Martin Luther King Jr.
M. Scott Eiland
Nice profile, David–he seems to be quite a remarkable man. But I agree with Toren–as soon as he is appointed to or runs for a political office as a Republican, the long knives will come out, and we’ll hear “Uncle Tom” and “oreo”–in whispers at first, then more brazenly.
David
First off a little snark: Seems to me like there is a little bit of shifting of goal posts. He was appointed to the Bioethics Council by GWB, and his recommendation was met with accolades from those who follow these sorts of things, scientist ethisist etc.
Second: There are other equally notable African Americans (who happen to be conservative) in just about every field who have been recognized by the NAACP and who recognize that the NAACP has and continues to play an important role in their lives and the lives of their community.
Third: (Disclosure- I have not one wit of personal knowledge regarding his political inclinations) And while I noted above he has been apointed by a conservative republican to a fairly high profile position (again high profile if you follow these sorts of things) what makes you think that he would run for an office as a Republican?
Nothing in my original post seems to exlude him from the Democratic Party so why do you all seem to think that the only party he might call himself a member of is the Republican Party.
JayR
Name ONE (1) black conservative who the NAACP and the black community has not villified, called an Uncle Tom, said to shuck and jive for the white man, or called a plantation negro?
How about Herman Cain, current Georgia senate candidate?
I’m not saying it didn’t happen and I’m not saying that it did. I don’t know. But I seriously doubt you do either. Where is that NAACP press release that puts Cain on the reservation? Put up or shut up.
CadillaqJaq
“Since Abraham Lincoln, Republicans have been there for blacks when it counted. Democrats invaribly take all the credit for the successes of the Civil Rights Movement and invaribly fail to give any credit to Republicans.”
From: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/12/13/194350.shtml
Though the Newsmax article is nearly two years old, the facts are irrefutable.
Kimmitt
That completely ignores the Nixon “Southern Strategy” and the realignment of the Parties that came about as a result of the Civil Rights bills and the resulting estrangement from the Dixiecrats.
Yes, the Republican Party was the Party of the abolitionists. But that was a long time ago, and the Party first became pro-corporate (and therefore antipoor), then simply Conservative (which has a strong correlation to antiblack).
At some point, 90% of African-Americans cannot be totally wrong.
willyb
Kimmitt,
You poor, deluded soul…. Do you have any proof of your blanket statements that “pro-corporate” and “Conservative” equate to “antipoor” and “antiblack”? And the “fact” that 90% of African-American vote for Democrats, is not proof that they have a clear picture of the issues.
Kimmitt
Yes, yes — I’m deluded, the Left is deluded, 90% of African-Americans are deluded . . . only you and Rupert Murdoch have Seen the Light and must go out to preach to the heathens.
People are generally decent at sorting out their own self-interests. 90% loyalty to one political Party is absolutely astounding, and there is only one possible explanation for it.
Slartibartfast
“there is only one possible explanation for it.”
I just know you want to share. But really…only ONE possible? That’s a little irresponsible, even coming from a pseudoscientist.
willyb
Kimmitt,
I still waiting for you to equate “pro-corporate” and “Conservative” to “antipoor” and “antiblack.”
And while you’re at it, maybe you could explain why the African-American community is so much different the the general population.
Kimmitt
willyb, if you haven’t figured it out by now, a blog post isn’t going to help you.
“But really…only ONE possible? That’s a little irresponsible, even coming from a pseudoscientist.”
I suppose some sort of mind-control ray is also conceivable. But truly, the only even vaguely rational explanation for 90% loyalty is some combination of consistent advocacy for their interests and the belief that the other Party has nothing to offer them.
Please understand — born-again Christians don’t even vote 90% Republican. A 90/10 breakdown between Parties for any ethnic, religious, or philosophical group is almost unheard-of.
John Cole
Nothing in my original post seems to exlude him from the Democratic Party so why do you all seem to think that the only party he might call himself a member of is the Republican Party.
Then why did you list hiom, if he is not a Republican?
Andrew J. Lazarus
Then why did you list hiom, if he is not a Republican?
Maybe because your initial post asked for a CONSERVATIVE not a REPUBLICAN. Move those goalposts.
Al Maviva
I should think that the dominant meme in the “Uncle Tom” comments is the notion of being a “race traitor” – i.e. if you help members of another race, you are being a traitor to your own race. This is the premise behind the “Uncle Tom” criticism of prominent Black conservatives like Justice Thomas.
Why it’s wrong or unfair for this calculus to work in the other direction – in other words why we shouldn’t revive the language of Bull Connor to apply to the likes of Whites who claim to represent Black interests – is beyond me. Sauce for the goose, and all…
Ricky
JayR,
I’m in GA and follow politics & I know that Cain has been villified, yes. I don’t know of any press release, just what I’ve seen in the papers & on tv.
Hecj, he was villified for daring to ask Clinton about Hillarycare back in ’93. That’s what happens when you leave the reservation.
Hey, Kimmitt, are you going to punt that question again? That’s fine, you should, but know that every time you try that “all the racist democrats became republicans” BS is going to be called on…EVERY TIME.
The worst racist couldn’t dream to do the damage to inner cities black kids that the Democrats have over the last two generations. But, hey, they vote Democrat….that’s all that counts, right?
David
Andrew J. Lazarus is right on. Dr. Ben Carson may very well be a Republican but I can’t tell from the description that I posted. He is however certainly Conservative and I’d like to point out that my tent really is big.
Again I don’t know him from Adam but I’m pretty sure that he would whole heartedly embrace the notion of evolution as is widely accepted within the scientific community. I don’t know a thing about Seventh Day Adventists but they seem to put a significant emphasis on health issues and poverty reduction … mission work etc again not real big components of Republican Party agenda’s nation wide.
Seems like a Democrat to me, like it or not but the Republican Party of this decade and last is the democratic party of old. So beholden to its base that it is unable to advance resonable, responsible, middle of the road proposals. Remember Labor and the strangle hold they had on the Democratic Party, we’ll look in the mirror and you will see a party that is right now as we speak going in two opposite directions at the same time. And has been said as the beast slouches toward bethleham the center can not hold.
willyb
“willyb, if you haven’t figured it out by now, a blog post isn’t going to help you.”
Kimmitt, WEAK answer. As I expected, you can’t defend your position. They are delusions.
Bloggerhead
I think it’s perfectly natural that there are people who cast ballots which end up working against their interests in certain ways. Voting is just as often a visceral act as an intellectual one.
Here in the South, you have countless people working for a pittance, with no practical access to healthcare (and I don’t mean not being turned away at an emergency room), who routinely vote republican. Here in a military town, I often speak with Marines who recognize that their commander-in-chief is quite likely a clueless tool, who pushes tax cuts for the wealthiest while cutting corners on body armor and their hazardous pay, and all the while preaching sacrifice. But a good number will probably vote GOP anyway, because they’ve been fed a daily diet of the weakness of democrats on defense.
Just as most democrats aren’t anti-American or appeasers or whatever, neither are most republicans racists. To deny, though, the existence and influence of the Dixiecrats and Nixon’s southern strategy is simply ridiculous. There are countless examples of republicans injecting race into campaigns over the last thirty years. (By the way, Jesse Helms was my senator since I was a tike.) One need only refer to the recent Florida felon scrub to find such tactics alive and well, and to understand that no matter what the GOP does to attract A-A votes, crap like this sets the party back.
No amount of resort to Bull Conner rhetoric (what the fa?), or to “vilification” of democrats as promoting policies more inimical to A-A interests than the worst racists (especially to people who remember what the worst racists were really like) stands to move things forward for ya
Kimmitt
“Kimmitt, WEAK answer. As I expected, you can’t defend your position. They are delusions.”
Here, have some data.
On every question, the “racist” position is correlated to conservatism.
Again, it is irrelevant; if you have not brought yourself to accept that racism and conservatism are correlated (which is not to say that every conservative is racist or every racist is conservative, but that the one makes the other more likely — in this case, significantly more likely) by now, a blog post, no matter how thoroughly backed up, is not going to help you.
The GOP cannot pursue policies which the African-American community perceives as helping it, because the GOP would lose chunks of its base to apathy and/or fringe Parties. The CCC (note, not self-identifying as the CLC) is an organization which supports the Republicans and which would bolt if it were not tended to.
willyb
Kimmitt,
You just don’t seem to get it. You made the bald assertions that “pro-corporate” and “Conservative” equate to “antipoor” and “antiblack.” Then you think throwing around a bunch of data excuses you from presenting your case. It does not! Frankly, I don’t believe you can make the case that Republicans are any more racist that Democrats, and that’s my point. Your statements amount to ad hominem attacks. Explain to me how that contributes to the debate.
Kimmitt
“Frankly, I don’t believe you can make the case that Republicans are any more racist that Democrats,”
My argument went as follows:
1) Republicans are more conservative than Democrats.
2) Conservatism correlates strongly to racism.
The fact that you didn’t bother to read it only confirms my initial response to you, which was that you aren’t going to listen to what you don’t care to hear, so there’s not really any point. Anyone who is capable of contending that the Republican Party or the Conservative movement is not where antiblack racists reside is not going to be swayed by the posts in a Comments section; your worldview is far enough removed from reality that some text on a screen, however well supported, is irrelevant to you.
Toren
Hey, Kimmitt, notice something?
You libs managed to come up with TWO examples of conservative blacks that haven’t been tied to a car and dragged by the NAACP and the Dems.
Two.
Pretty sad, don’t you think?
willyb
“The fact that you didn’t bother to read it only confirms my initial response to you, which was that you aren’t going to listen to what you don’t care to hear, so there’s not really any point.”
Get a clue Kimmitt. I have no intention of reading through pages of data to make your argument.
Unsupported statements and faulty logic aren’t proof. For example, I could say:
Michael Moore is anti-American in his comments.
Democrats correlate closely to Michael Moore.
Democrats are anti-American.
I could then go on to say: “Anyone who is capable of contending that the [Democrat] Party or the [Liberal] movement is not where [anti-American] racists reside is not going to be swayed by the posts in a Comments section; your worldview is far enough removed from reality that some text on a screen, however well supported, is irrelevant to you.”
You use ad hominem attacks to defend your ad hominem attacks. VERY WEAK!
Kimmitt
“I have no intention of reading through pages of data to make your argument.”
Or any data whatsoever, as they might contradict your previously-held opinions.
Al Maviva
Kimmit, let’s take a prominent conservative position on race, where your “high correlation of conservatism and racism” should shine through clearly. That conservative position is that race shouldn’t be a factor when you are seeking a job or college admission. The opposing liberal position is that if you are in the right minority group you should get a boost. Preferred minorities include African Americans, Hispanics, or Native Americans, but not Asians, or for that matter a White African-Americans, such as those who fled Rhodesia or White South Africans. Could you please explain how the conservative position is more racist than the liberal one? After all, I don’t recall Dr. King saying “I have a dream, that one day, my children can get the equivalent of 200 SAT points in college admission, based not on the content of their character, but on the color of their skin…”
Please don’t say it’s reparations – this country has never particularly screwed over Hispanics. Likewise, it can’t be from general societal attitudes toward minorities; asians labor under the burden of being thought better of than they probably are, as a “model minority”.
Bloggerhead
Hey, Toren. John just asked for one example and two have been given. That should put this race-pimp drivel to bed for a few days, at least.
Now, as for the naked-lust-for-power bullshit…
willyb
Kimmitt,
Your lights on, or at least you respond, but I’m beginning to wonder if you’re home. Rather than addressing any of the criticism I level at you, you come back with inane comments that presume you know what kind of person I am.
Regarding your “data”, I looked at the tables at the end of the links for topic 4 B. Race, and found nothing to support your positions. That is why I said “I have no intention of reading through pages of data to make your argument.” BTW, does the stuff you post qualify as “data”?
Now you have used ad hominem attacks to defend your ad hominem attacks on ad hominem attacks. VERY, VERY WEAK.
Slartibartfast
“Conservatism correlates strongly to racism.”
Really? Exactly how strongly? Feel free to point to the data that supports your claim, instead of throwing out a link to a survey that mostly doesn’t.
Even if you did have the data you say you do, you can’t make the argument that conservatives are racist. You might be able to advance the argument that more racists are conservatives than liberal with such data, but you can’t go the other way.
Ricky
Kimmitt has been discredited via his refusal to back up his contentions that all the racist Dems went GOP….he runs from actually presenting anything other than his emotions.
Don’t feed the trolls.
willyb
“First, there is a large black middle class that presumably doesn’t have or need much to do with poverty pimps. They, too, support the Democrats overwhelmingly.”
Is this an assumption, or maybe you have data? In fact, I would offer another possibility for the reported large % of blacks voting for Democrats … they are lying to the exit pollsters because they don’t want to admit they voted Republican. Well … while probably not correct to a large extent, it is just as provable as your supposition.
Andrew J. Lazarus
No, willyb, because we can look at the voting records in precincts that are largely black middle class.
Nice try though.
Kimmitt
I can’t post a link because it’s from an academic journal that requires access to jstor or some other service, but it seems like the Conservative/racist correlation is more attenuated than I had previously believed. It turns out that the variable which is correlated to racism is _lack_of_education_, which is itself correlated to Conservatism — once education is controlled for, Conservatives support positions (such as the rollback of Affirmative Action programs) which may have disproportionate effects on minority groups, but they support them for nonracist ideological (i.e. commitment to small government) reasons.
A lot of weird anomalies are starting to make a lot more sense in my mind.
Slartibartfast
So, maybe you can stop with the idiotic generalizations? Or, more likely, not.
Dean
“lack of education” is correlated with *conservatism*??
Hmmm, how do most poorer folks vote?
For that matter, since for the longest time it was blacks who had the worst school systems, what is your “explanation” that blacks vote 90% for Dems?
tweell
Looks like Herman Cain isn’t getting the NAACP love even after getting endorsed by Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow Coalition.
http://www.georgiaheritagecoalition.org/site2/commentary/davis_ear_to_ground.phtml
‘Enter Rev. Joseph Lowery who joined with other black leaders such as Julian Bond of the NAACP and Al Sharpton in denouncing blacks crossing over and voting in the Republican Primary.
While the good reverend didn’t mention names it seems pretty obvious his message to black elected officials in Savannah scolded “colored folks who vote Republican”.’
Oh well.
tweell
willyb
“No, willyb, because we can look at the voting records in precincts that are largely black middle class.”
Andrew, as you know, things don’t fit into nice packages across this country. What might be true in one neighborhood/precinct, may not apply across the U.S.
The post by tweell would provide some support for what I was supposing. However, I concede that the answers are not clear as to why 90% (or some other large %) of African-Americans vote for Democrats.
Bleeding heart conservative
Wayne Perryman wrote “Unfounded Loyalty”:
“For 150 years blacks were victims of terrorist attacks by the Democrats and their Klan supporters, including lynchings, beatings, rapes and mutilations” (one of the most widely known Democratic ex-Klansman is Sen. Robert Byrd of West Virginia);
“On the issue of slavery, the Democrats literally gave their lives to expand it; the Republicans gave their lives to ban it;”
Many believed the Democrats had a change of heart and fell in love with blacks. To the contrary, history reveals the Democrats didn’t fall in love with black folks, they fell in love with the black vote knowing this would be their ticket to the White House.”
History as Proof
Perryman says he researched American history spanning 1832 to 2002 to arrive at his conclusion that Democrats are not real friends or allies of blacks.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1562290738?v=glance
Kimmitt
“So, maybe you can stop with the idiotic generalizations? Or, more likely, not.”
Actually, my plan was to go with the more intelligent generalizations. That is how it’s supposed to work, last I heard; people who find out new things change their opinions, instead of sticking to old and tired ones for the sake of not appearing to concede partisan points.
BHC: The Dems changed a lot when FDR came into power — more than anyone else, he defines the modern Party as being pro-workingman. This populist sentiment spread over time into becoming a more generalized liberal concern for all, which is where the Dems are now. Because of this shift, which was made obvious in two Democratic Presidents’ tireless advocacy for Civil Rights Legislation (as well as a majority of Democratic lawmakers’ support), Nixon spotted a traditional Democratic constituency which was not being served by the Dems (i.e. southern working class and upper class whites) and began to woo them. This was successful, and the Parties’ reversal in terms of power bases and ideology was more or less complete.
“Hmmm, how do most poorer folks vote?
For that matter, since for the longest time it was blacks who had the worst school systems, what is your “explanation” that blacks vote 90% for Dems?”
Apologies — among *whites*, lower education is correlated to racist attitudes, according to the articles I’m reading. The article did not discuss African-American attitudes.
Kimmitt
Let’s keep in mind that the Reagan Democrats are overwhelmingly white working class households with relatively little education; much Democratic energy is expended on figuring out how precisely to appeal to them without betraying or alienating other Democratic constituencies, such as African-Americans or gays. This is similar to Republican efforts to appeal to African-Americans or gays (or Hispanics) without betraying or alienating other Republican constituencies, such as white working class households.
Slartibartfast
“people who find out new things change their opinions”
Only when those new things turn out to be true. Which is why it’s best to be careful when spreading new “truths” about.
Kimmitt
Well, yes, but if you don’t expose your opinions to the harsh light of criticism, you don’t end up with good opinions.
Slartibartfast
Final comment on this:
When exposing your opinions to the harsh light of criticism, it’s probably a good idea to restrain most outward displays of arrogance, condescension, and contempt.
Or not, if you’re fond of rhetorical beheading. Or unfond of being taken seriously.
Kimmitt
Yeah, but it’s not like I got a lot out of willyb saying “nuh-UH times infinity,” other than my own personal desire to feel like if I’m slamming into a brick wall, I ought to at least know why.
willyb
Kimmitt,
No offense intended… I’m just seeking a higher level of understanding. At this point I feel like I’m still on square one of the issue. Did I miss something?
Slartibartfast
Aside from a lot of tap-dancing and victimhood, no. And as excuse for bad behavior, Kimmitt uses “but he was doin’ it first!”
RW
Married women tend to vote conservative/Republican.
Don’t tell poor Kimmitt that means Democrats get the whore vote (since they already get the white trash and welfare vote)….his head will explode.
I’m sure we’ll get that cite about the time we get that list of all the Democrats who switched to the GOP because they were racists, right, Kimmitt?
How does it feel to have Joe Wilson’s cred?
Kimmitt
RW, I already posted a list of Democratic lawmakers in the Senate who switched Parties following the passage of the Civil Rights Act in a previous commentary section. If you want to pretend that it didn’t happen, then that’s pretty much your problem.
Various cites on the Reagan Democrats:
American Heritage
random right-wing editorial
Random book on the topic…
Just google “Reagan-Democrats demographics” and you’ll get a pretty full picture.
I’d also like to offer some cites on some other apparently controversial topics:
Sunrise in east
Pope Catholic
I wasn’t able to find much in the way of support for bears crapping in woods, though; this may be apocryphal.
RW
Kimmitt,
No, you didn’t. You said you didn’t have that time, so you punted. If you did it later, it was somewhere unseen. How’s about a link?
If I want a breakdown of the race/ethnicity/union membership of Reagan’s votes, that’s easily enough ascertained. Of course, you citing a source for your quoted assertion, that they had “relatively little education”, was also punted (and missing from your links).
And yet, that was too difficult a chore for you, Kimmitt. It’s obvious you made it up, as you had to run out and find some quick links that DIDN’T EVEN ADDRESS IT. IOW, you just got caught putting forth something you pulled from your nether regions, again.
Now, you’ll either punt (again) or try to find some links to back up what you put forth without a single source (it won’t work, you had your chance and failed.
You just got so busted.
BTW, did someone tell you that immature and grade-school sendoffs impress ANYONE?
RW
BTW, that’s a rockin’ site you have. THREE whole comments. One from you and the other two on video gaming.
Now I see why you come by here & put forth immature and false statements on a continual basis. Getting attention on your own is tough, eh?
Kimmitt
“It’s obvious you made it up, as you had to run out and find some quick links that DIDN’T EVEN ADDRESS IT.”
Wait, we’re now arguing the point of whether blue-collar workers tend to have less education than white-collar workers?
You may wish to have access to my links regarding sunrise and the Pope; they may prove extremely informative to you
Kimmitt
Reagan Democrats are defined as white, working-class voters with high school or “some college” education, for goodness’ sake. That was the set of folks who used to vote Democratic on economic grounds and switched to voting Republican, mainly on cultural grounds.
Slartibartfast
Having been bombarded with irrelevancies for the last couple of days by a purportedly intelligent Democrat, I’m wondering if he realizes that the point he’s actually making isn’t one any sane individual would seek to make.
Kimmitt
The points, in order:
1) Conservative correlates with racist — or, more to the point, lack of education correlates both to racism and conservatism.
2) Reagan Democrats were largely white, working-class males with a high school education, a traditional Democratic constituency that Reagan appealed to on cultural grounds.
3) The sun rises in the east due to the direction of the earth (which is an oblate spheroid)’s rotation on its axis.
4) The Papacy is now considered to be the highest office in the hierarchy of the Catholic Church and has an interesting history.
5) Bears are omnivorous and live in many habitats.
Ricky
Nope, I was busting you on your previous quote of “Let’s keep in mind that the Reagan Democrats are overwhelmingly white working class households with relatively little education”. Interesting how you’re now running full speed away from “relatively little education” to “less education than white-collar workers”. Further, you’re trying to muddy the water into a definition of “Reagan Democrat”, when the quote was highlighted.
You’re running.
Fast.
Looks like someone realized that they got busted.
Ouch.
Slart,
Some people don’t realize that an intelligent person is not in need of a device to jump up and down trying to portray such a measure….the argument does it for them. Then again, some people need to do it (and it makes them “feel better” when they can sit at their computer and disseminate ad homs that they could never get away with on a face-to-face basis).
It was almost difficult, Kimmitt.
Kimmitt
What else would “relatively little” education mean than “less education than either a different group or the median or the average”?
Dean
Kimmitt:
You’re STILL trying to claim that there is a correlation between conservative and racist??
Put up data or shut up, for Chrissakes. And the data that you pointed to, the ones from UMICH are irrelevant, SINCE THEY SHOW NO SUCH CORRELATION.
More to the point about your steadily shifting claims:
Lack of education correlates with racism. It may or may not correlate with conservatism. EVEN IF IT DID, you would STILL have to prove that racism correlates with conservatism, because unless you used the same sample, you have shown NO correlation between two factoids. And as for causation, well, let’s not tax you too much.
Slartibartfast
I have to say that this is a rare occasion: the substitution of the foregone-conclusion claim in place of data. Again, Kimmitt, the lesson you’re actually teaching me is the opposite of the one you think you are.
On the upside, though, my expectations of you are declining. The unsubstantiated arguments still aren’t going to fly, but I won’t be paying attention anyway.
Ricky
Have a little trouble with remedial english, eh?
Move on, Kimmitt….you got busted on top of having next to no credibility to speak of. You’re no longer worth my time (looking at your site, I’m not the only one).
Kimmitt
Look, here is a link to the article which was the most enlightening for me. If you have access to jstor, I recommend you read it, because it’s quite enlightening. It is entitled,
“The New Racism*”
and it is by Sniderman, Piazza, Tetlock, and Kendrick in the American Journal of Political Science Vol. 35, No. 2, May 1991 Pp. 423-47.
It’s a very good read.
Kimmitt
Apologies, here is apparently a better link.
Slartibartfast
No dice, Kimmitt. Can’t access it.
Kimmitt
As I mentioned above, that’s the problem. The citation I gave should be enough to find it at your local library if you care enough, but almost all the publicly available (i.e. non-academic) stuff is crap.
Slartibartfast
Well, since you can access it, it should be no problem at all for you to determine a) what the exact correlation you referred to is, and b) why you think the data analysis might be valid thirteen years later. Or at least summarize the article. I’d hate to waste any more time examining data that bears no relationship at all to the point you’re making. Oh, and an update of what the point is at the current time might be nice.
Kimmitt
“And the data that you pointed to, the ones from UMICH are irrelevant, SINCE THEY SHOW NO SUCH CORRELATION.”
Okay, this is outright false. For every question for which there is an obvious racist answer (i.e. segregation), it correlates to self-identified conservatism and has a negative correlation to self-identified liberalism. I am conceding for the sake of argument that opposition to affirmative action may not be racist per se but indicative of a larger nonracist ideology in which the state should not attempt to rectify abuses past but act as neutrally as possible in the present.
Dean
Fine. Demonstrate the correlation. SHOW HOW IT CORRELATES.
I’ve looked at the data at the UMICH link. I’m trying to see this correlation.