It appears clear that the Democratic response to the Swift Boat commercial is a three-pronged front, consisting of personal attacks, legal attacks, and flat-out lies. I touched on this last night in a late-night post, but much of this is worth further discussion.
For the record, I don’t know what to believe about the commercial. In the past, I have been willing to give Kerry the benefit of the doubt, and I will continue to do so until the story shakes out. However, I find the Democratic attempts to silence these men despicable. They may be wrong, they may be lying, but these men served out country just like John Kerry, and far more so than former President Clinton, so their side deserves to be checked, and at the very least, heard..
The personal attacks have been well-documented, as have been the legal challenges. However, what has not been challenged, at least other than here, is the big, fat, whopper of a lie that the Democrats are currently peddling. It is clear the talking points have been handed out- let’s review them.
The talking points, first appeared in the Miami Herald:
The Kerry campaign has denounced the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, saying none of the men in the ad served on the boat that Kerry commanded. The leader of the group, retired Adm. Roy Hoffmann, said none of the 13 veterans in the commercial served on Kerry’s boat but rather were in other swiftboats within 50 yards of Kerry’s.
Media Matters, the wholly owned subsidiarity of the DNC, funded by George Soros, has been quick to pass out the talking points:
Despite the ad’s claim, members of the group did not serve with Senator John Kerry on his swift boat in Vietnam. Not only did the programs ignore that fact, but FOX News Channel hosts Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes went so far as to call them Kerry’s “fellow crewmates.”
You see where this is going, don’t you? They were not on the actual boat with Kerry, so therefore they have no idea who the man is or what he was like during the time in question. Except, of course, this defies reality. As I stated last night, you almost have to admire the brazenness and the audacity of those willing to make this statement, because it is so misleading and stupid that surely they must be afraid of being caught.
To the facts:
1.) Kerry, according to his own biography, served with the following UNITS:
– November 17, 1968- Upon completion of his training, Kerry reports for duty to Coastal Squadron 1, Coastal Division 14, Cam Ranh Bay, South Vietnam.
– December 6, 1968- Kerry moved to Coastal Division 11 at An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island
– December 13, 1968- Kerry moved to Coastal Division 13, Cam Ranh Bay
Right away, you should begin to understand the absurdity of the talking points. While the Kerry campaign may hope that everyone thinks Kerry’s Swiftboat experience was much like the long, solo journey portrayed in Apocalypse Now, this is not the case. Kerry was stationed with his crew and all the other men in his repsective units at their bases.
2.) A decription of Cam Ranh Bay:
While the concentration at Cam Ranh Bay of Market Time headquarters and forces during the summer of 1967, the demand for base support became extraordinary. Accordingly, the Naval Support Activity Saigon, Detachment Cam Ranh Bay, was redesignated the Naval Support Facility, Cam Ranh Bay, a more autonomous and self sufficient status. A greater allocation of resources and support forces to the shore installation resulted in an improved ability to cope with the buildup of combat units. In time, the Cam Ranh Bay facility accomplished major vessel repair and dispensed a greater variety of supply items to the anti-infiltration task force. In addition the naval contingent at the Joint Service Ammunition Depot issued ammunition to the coastal surveillance, river patrol and mobile riverine forces as well as to the Seventh Fleet?s gunfire support destroyers and landing ships. Seabee Maintenance unit 302 provided public works assistance to the many dispersed Naval Support Activity, Saigon detachments.
As a vital logistic complex, Cam Ranh Bay continued to function long after the Navy?s combat forces withdrew from South Vietnam as part of the Vietnamization of the war.
A description of An Thoi on Phu Quoc Island:
Of all the Navy?s bases in South Vietnam, An Thoi, on the southern tip of Phu Quoc Island in the Gulf of Siam, was the most isolated. Almost 1000 miles from Subic Bay, it taxed the seventh Fleet?s mobile logistic support force during the Vietnam War. Still naval leaders recognized early the strategic value of the site: from there the naval forces could readily interdict sea infiltration of communist men and supplies from Cambodia. Another favorable consideration was the availability to American units of real estate near the Vietnamese Navy?s existing compound.
These were bases. There was billeting (naval vessels, billet barges, on-shore billets, etc.), supply depots, docks for repair, etc. In other words, John Kerry was not sitting on a boat with only five crewmen for the entirety of his stay. Instead, he was staying with his entire UNIT.
3.) A description of a typical Swift Boat Unit:
The Division is now comprised of twenty-three officers and one hundred and twenty enlisted men divided into boat crews. A crew is comprised of one officer and five enlisted men who are trained as a team so that if the need arises one man can step in and do the other’s job. The crews must be constantly alert 24 hours a day for they never know when the VC will strike.
4.) A description of a combat mission:
During the early hours of 1 March, four SWIFTS of Coastal Division 14 and several RVN Coastal patrol craft located an enemy steel-hulled ship attempting to infiltrate guns and ammunition to the VC. In what has been since described as “the greatest sea engagement of the Vietnamese conflict” PCFs 46, 47, 48 and 43 destroyed the 120 foot enemy trawler. The murderous .50 caliber machine gun and 81mm mortar fire enabled victory after a 15-minute battle. As in all victories some prices must be paid; two men aboard PCF-48 were wounded. ENFN Galliher suffered a minor leg wound and GMG2 Ulmer, a shoulder wound. today Galliher is back on the job and Ulmer recuperating in Japan. We all give Thanks that it was not more serious and wish Ulmer a speedy recovery. All personnel involved have been recommended to receive medals for their heroic actions.
5.) Descriptions of combat from Kerry’s OWN website:
For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving with Coastal Division ELEVEN engaged in armed conflict with Viet Cong insurgents in An Xuyen Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 28 February 1969. Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94 and Officer in Tactical Command of a three-boat mission.
Lieutenant (junior grade) Kerry was serving as Officer in Charge of Patrol Craft Fast 94, one of five boats conducting a SEA Lords operation in the Bay Hap River.
Is this enough? Still don’t believe me? Go watch the Kerry videos– count the boats.
In short, it is an absurd notion that because these men were not on the same exact boat they did not serve with Kerry. They fought together, slept together, bled together, ate together, and drank together. Pretending otherwise is the mother of all whoppers, and serves only to diminish Kerry’s credibility.
As I stated yesterday, I am shocked that they would attempt a lie this big. After all, while Kerry was running around the Mekong Delta torching villages in the latter part of 1968 (and that is his own testimony, and not just unfounded some slur I made up), the core of his supporters were also busy burning things- albeit ROTC buildings, draft cards, and bras. It is not surprising that they should have no understanding of the military.
The idea that they can lie to the rest of us like this is obscene. Mind you- none of this means that the story of the Swift Boat Vets for Truth is accurate. Nor does it diminish Kerry’s service- this was not a stay at the Hilton. It does, however, shed some light on the Kerry campaign and their surrogates.
*** Update ***
Via Brian Carnell, a transcript of last night’s Hannity and Colmes. Susan Estrich, who never met a Massachussetts liberal she did not like, uses the talking points against Swift Boat Veteran for Truth Van Odell:
ESTRICH: I have to interrupt you for one second. I think…
ODELL: Another boat…
ESTRICH: Sir — Sir, I think it’s my turn to ask you a few questions. You weren’t a crew mate of Senator Kerry’s, were you?
ODELL: I was not.
ESTRICH: You were not a crewmate of his. Right. All of the men on his boat are supporting his bid for the presidency, aren’t they?
ODELL: No, that’s not true.
ESTRICH: One is deceased, but all the rest are…
ODELL: Steve Gardener (ph) is not supporting him at all.
ESTRICH: But as I understand it all of the men on his boat…
ODELL: When I was in Vietnam — when I was in Vietnam, the people there on his boat crew did not have the same take on what he is like now.
ESTRICH: So all but one who were on his boat are supporting him. Is that right? And you weren’t on his boat. Is that right?
ODELL: I was in close proximity. I was right behind his boat.
ESTRICH: You were half a football field away; is that right?
ODELL: Oh, no, it’s closer than that. Sometimes we laid alongside many times. We were close together.
The press ‘Kerrying’ the water for Kerry/Edwards. You really had to see the clip to fully appreciate Estrich’s vicious tone.
capt joe
John,
Watch Oliver start sqealing like a stuck pig after your post in 4, 3, 2, 1 …
Josh Martin
The desperation with which the Kerry folks and their supporters in the ‘sphere have responded to these allegations – and the substance (or lack thereof) of their responses – is a pretty good indication of the threat the charges pose.
In short, they know Kerry’s a fraud, who built a heroic mythology based on nothing more than self-promotion and the exectution of a wounded Vietnamese teenager. If that’s how I got my Silver Star, I’d throw it back too.
HH
The Kerry campaign has their spokesperson at the Boston Globe to churn out this story and they are using his story to intimidate stations to silence the Swift Vets. Words fail me.
WildMonk
Honestly, the brazen spinning isn’t that disturbing since it lies within the realm of politics. The intimidation letters from DNC lawyers, however, are absolutely damning evidence that the Democrats have simply lost it. They’ve descended from asking for your vote to trying to strong-arm the opposition.
Does Bush not have an even better case for suing M. Moore? Doctored newspapers, quotes cut short to imply the opposite of what was said, scurrilous implications that Bush met with the Taliban when he hadn’t, etc.
I’m not necessarily against stated Democratic policies, but this season has taught me to be dead-set against the current crop of Democrats.
Sad…and scary.
Bob Ditmer
If we can’t believe the testimony of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth because they weren’t on the same boat as Kerry – can we believe Kerry’s claims of atrocities by men who also didn’t serve on his boat?
The Fop
Never in the history of American Cinema has there ever been a major motion picture that was a documentary wholly devoted to trashing a sitting President and his administration, released during an election season.
The Democrats had their chance to denounce Fahrenheit 9/11 for the ugly precedent it sets for American politics. Instead, many prominent Democrats publicly sung it’s praises.
For the Democrats to demand that Bush denounce the Swift Boat ad is laughable.
Anon
Oh yes, Susan Estrich. When I read her op-ed defending Schwarzenegger’s groping, I assumed that she must be a deranged conservative.
Then I read some of her stuff where she defended Clinton using similarly alien logic and I realized she was just deranged.
Why she’s allowed on TV at all is beyond me.
Dean
B/c she was, iirc, Dukakis’ chief political advisor. And a Harvard Prof (at least at one time).
d
So if Kerry served so honorably, why is he holding back his fitness reports, the paper on his medals and everything else other than a carefully culled fraction of his record?
If he served so well, then what is he hiding?
His campaign demanded that Bush release his full service record and the President did that.
But we’re still waiting for Kerry to do likewise. If he wants to prove the Swiftboat Vets wrong, it’s easy — just submit his form 180 and authorize both the Washington Times and the New York Times to receive and publish his entire service record. End of controversy.
But he’s not doing that, so what is he hiding?
jonc
“His campaign demanded that Bush release his full service record and the President did that.”
Huh? Why have they released “the full service record” at least three times? They keep releasing more and more each time, and each time people manage to think they have released “the full service record.”
Remember, Bush was honorably discharged!
HH
Estrich teaches at UCLA last I checked.
John Adams at The Commons
Estrich was in rare form tonight as well — jumping all over Randy Kelly, the St. Paul Democrat mayor who endorsed Bush. Said Hubert Humphrey would consider him a “traitor.” Unprofessional, bitter, and discourteous. Laura Ingraham does a great impersonation of her, however.
StinKerr
I liked Susan Estrich till last night’s performance. While I didn’t like a lot of her positions on things I thought she was honest. No more.
She interrupted Odell when he was telling what he saw happen when Kerry pulled the SF guy out of the drink. She continued to interrupt his answers to her leading questions when she didn’t like the answers.
It seems that the SF guy fell in when Kerry accelerated the boat.
Odell says they were NOT under fire and that there were four people pulled out of the water on that occasion. Two were picked up by one boat and the third was picked up by another boat.
The other three were apparently from the boat that hit the mine. Since the boat was hit and disabled they all hung around the area for at least an hour.
Odell was a gunner and was positioned in a gun tub which was on the uppermost part of the boat. He had a full 360 degree view of what was happening.
I don’t think anybody else got medals.
I don’t know what happened but I’m willing to listen to what everybody who was there has to say about it, unlike Estrich.
Todd
I agree with a lot of above. Just so you know where I’m coming from: I don’t hate Kerry, but I can’t vote Democratic b/c we we’re at war and the Democrats just aren’t serious about it. I voted for Bush last time but I just can’t vote for him in good conscience this time b/c of his pandering to the Religious Right–the FMA amendment…among other things. But I was reading the comments in Tacitus by liberals and I couldn’t believe the cognative dissonance…”right-wing smears” etc…this after the same commentators where praising “F911” which essentially used lies and propaganda to imply Bush was a war criminal and a traitor, then the DNC gives MM a seat next to Jimmy Carter at the convention…not to mention Terry McAuliffe saying Bush was AWOL without a shred of proof to back it up. I’m willing to give Kerry the benefit of the doubt like John Cole. But I can’t stand hearing liberals lecturing me about “smears” while at the same time they embrace a lying anti-American pig like Michael Moore.
Jeff
I love how those on the lying left, who have never fired a bb gun or been in a fist fight, are spinning combat in the delta. When in a squadron, whether it be airplanes or boats, you depend on your wingman, whether he is 20 feet or 20 miles away from you. If your on the same mission, you might as well be in the same foxhole. Goddamn, I really loath Kerry and his minions now.
KJC
I read the link to the talking points from mediamatters. It states that on the Aug. 4, Fox hosts Sean Hannity and Alan Colmes both called the Swift Vets “crewmates.” Alan Colmes has been on vacation all week, unless I am mistaken and missed a cameo appearance that night?
Not that huge of a deal, but I thought I’d point that out for whatever it’s worth.
recon
After the massive and incessant lies and abuses heaped upon the President over the last nearly two years now by every manner of DemonRatic and media thug, the SwiftVets deserve to be heard, analyzed and judged — fairly. And that is why it won’t happen.
HOWEVER!!! The ad is merely prelude to the book, which is already #1 on the Times Best Seller list, and it hasn;t even been released yet. Judging by the sample chapter available for download, the documentation is orders-of-magnitude beyond bombproof and virtually death to the Kerry campaign. Remember, it has been written by the man who not only succeeded Kerry in command of his own boat (therefore the same crew) but who is also one of the very best and most sucessful attorneys in Texas. There will be absolutely no margin for error or misinterpretation.
IT IS A CAREER-KILLER BOOK!!!
Since McCain-Feingold only allows 3 more weeks for the ad to run regardless, the book, and the inevitable discussions about it, are THE absolutely perfect counterpoint to Maggot Moore’s rush to market is Fahrenhate DVD during the crticial 2 month prelude to the election.
Gary Farber
“hey may be wrong, they may be lying, but these men served out country just like John Kerry, and far more so than former President Clinton, so their side deserves to be checked.”
Apparently, therefore, if they were mere civilians, their side wouldn’t deserved to be checked. Else, why did you say this? When did we move into the land of Starship Troopers?
Ed6
“When did we move into the land of Starship Troopers?”
Speak for yourself, spaceman. This story deserves the full spotlight of the media. My guess is that, even after full dissection, the Swiftboat story will bring down the Kerry campaign like the house of cards it is.
Dodd
As I have pointed out multiple times, all the proof one needs that these were Kerry’s shipmates is that he used a picture of them in one of his own campaign ads. Of the men in the picture featured in that ad, only 1 – other than Kerry – supports his candidacy. The others are members of SBVFT. In fact, the use of their photo in that ad was a major factor in their decision to protest his campaign; as it says on the first page of their site, they didn’t appreciate the fact that the use of their picture amounted to an implied endorsement of a man they despise.
Doesn’t matter. The ad hominems will continue to rain down in the form of complaints about the Republican “smear machine.”
Dodd
A further note: Non-Navy types might not realize that “shipmate” is a term of art in that service. I didn’t see the FOXNews report in question, so I don’t know if they used the term “crewmate” or not but it’s certainly possible that the journalist, not having served, used that word instead of shipmate.
It’s ir-relevant. Everyone in one’s unit is a “shipmate.” These men never claimed to have been on his boat – that claim was put in their mouths by the DNC-funded lawyers trying to bully TV stations into suppressing the ad. They said they “served with” Kerry, which, as you have ably demonstrated, they did.
John Cole
Gary- I said that because that is the foundation of Kerry’s whole campaign- he served in Vietnam, he should be trusted. Some might recognize it as sarcasm, or a subtel jab at the Kerry clan.
Gary Farber
“Speak for yourself, spaceman. This story deserves the full spotlight of the media.”
That may be, but it’s a complete non-sequitur to my query to John, who understood the question and answered it.
Sarcasm. Okay.
Steve Malynn
Mr. Ditmer, I’m going to quote you. Great Question.
Curt
For the facts on GW Bush’s desertion from the Guards and how Rush Limbaugh dodged the draft, got to http://www.awolbush.com and http://www.nhgazette.com (go to “Chickenhawks”)