Atrios at his finest, bitching that people aren’t talking enough about the promotion of democracy abroad:
But, the more interesting question is why conservatives aren’t jumping up and down about this. I think it’s pretty obvious — most aren’t particularly concerned with spreading Democracy around the world. George Bush might actually be sincere in his new mission, though I don’t think he has a deep grasp of what “democracy” is, but most of the rest of them aren’t.
Republicans have never stopped being isolationist and anti-nation building (true of most of the US population, actually). They don’t think tyranny leads to terrorism (nor am I claiming there’s necessarily a strong connection), and don’t really want to expend any treasure helping out “the other.” What they do like is killing bad guys, and when George Bush says “spreading freedom and democracy” what they hear is “killing bad guys.” They like killing “bad guys,” and they’re a bit lost without an enemy, so the actual spreading of democracy just doesn’t excite them that much.
Though, yes, they rarely fail to grasp the latest bit of news to beat up on those freedom-hating democrats, so it’s a bit puzzling why they haven’t at least done that.
What a total asshole. And people wonder why I don’t embrace the Atrios/Kos driven Democratic party.
Kimmitt
Hypothesis: This democracy-promotion stuff is more about smacking down liberals than about actual democracy promotion.
Proposed test: Examine right-wing triumphalism following Afghanistan, Iraq elections. If equal, hypothesis is wrong. If greater regarding Afghanistan, hypothesis is extremely wrong. If greater regarding Iraq, hypothesis is supported.
Conclusion: Do we even have to ask?
None
Yeah, I think as Kimmit intimates, the point of the post is why am (Atrios who gets tons of emails not to mention comments) not getting the deluge of comments I got over the Iraqi elections.
Because it ain’t the point.
None
Hate to do this, but the “I” is in no way meant to intimate that I’m in fact Atrios.
Josh
Did something happen in the middle east already?
So the demoncrats are asking to be flogged even further over their opposition to freedom. I only just started an hour ago, I was too busy reading about the amazing events in further detail.
Sav
“If greater regarding Iraq, hypothesis is supported.”
Only in your thoroughly confused opinion.
Bruce
We do beleive what we say. Unlike the dims we wear our purpose out front in the open. When we say spreading democracy reduces terrorism we mean just that. These crazy dems are so full of ‘nuance’ that they do not beleive any one would actually come out for some postion. The dims cannot even articulate any position other than “Bush Bad, Me Good!” No policy, no position, no thoughts in thier silly little heads than ‘VRWC’… Paranoid freaks every one of them
CadillaqJaq
Bruce, you neglected to mention Halliburton and of course, the Texas Air National Guard– still the topic on a late night PBS talk show yesterday (along with crowning Dan Rather as a media “Superhero”).
Frankly, I hope these modern day Democrat/liberals never change. It’s interesting to watch them drowning in their own bile.
Kimmit mentions rightwing triumphalism: apparently he had his hearing aid turned down while the Clinton Administration bragged incessantly for eight years. Cut us some slack.
Bob
Anyone get boiled in Uzbekistan lately?
Did they get to vote on being boiled?
M. Scott Eiland
Yep, more evidence that Mr. Putin is getting his news about the United States by reading Duncan MacClown’s site.
tomaig
Go easy on Kimmit…he’s studying Advanced Pakalolo Production in Hawaii and the isolation (from reality, from non-college students, from any hint of Red Stat knowledge) REALLY shows…
Dodd
So nice to be told what I think – and what the words coming from my mouth really mean – by Atrios. I guess he’s gotten so used to his readers mindlessly adopting his every brain fart as their own heartfelt opinion, he thinks he can try it on us, too.
George Saras
Come on, Bob. You can do better than bring up an irrelevancy such as “Uzbekistan.” On the other hand, you are to be greatly thanked by the readers of this site for suspending your normal tendency to write on and on and on and on and on about the drivel that’s hemorrhaging from what’s left of your tiny little brain.
Love ya Babe.
Kimmitt
When we say spreading democracy reduces terrorism we mean just that.
Sure . . . this week. But next week, some other rhetorical club will be more appealing, and I have no doubt that you will fervently believe that, say, “stability reduces terrorism,” and that liberals calling for free elections or human-rights monitoring in countries which might elect Islamic governments if the military weakens its grip are “soft on terror.” And the week after that, it’ll be something else. There’s always some new meme, and it’s always used for the same purposes.
Al Maviva
Why aren’t we jumping up and down? Remember Mission Accomplished? That still gives Duncan blog entry grist. Remember how our triumphalism over how the Taliban was wiped out? Duncan and pals turned that into the “miserable failure” mantra about how because we didn’t have Osama yet, it means we’ve lost. Remember how our excitement over the Afghan elections was written off and the elections didn’t merit a byline? That’s a great case where MSM and lefty silence enacts the question, what if a tyrant falls in the forest, and CNN isn’t there to hear themselves talk about it. Remember how the Iranian mass demonstrations (and jailings and murders by the government) went uncovered except in the conservative press, and by folks like Michael Ledeen beating the drum for them? Remember how the human rights report on the North Koreans was completely ignored by the mainstream press but bandied about by righty bloggers and outlets like NRO? Have you witnessed how Krugman has systematically found a pigshit lining to every silver economic cloud, taking any good announcement by the WH and shitting all over it, usually dishonestly?
There’s two basic reasons the right isn’t dancing a jig. Number one, the job ain’t over. It’s a long uphill battle yet to help the middle east transition from oligarchy to self governance. A lot of the stuff going on is fragile, and Syria’s moves in Lebanon right now could well be jujitsu.
Second, any positive Republican comments on any achievement is immediately pissed on by Duncan, his bunkies at Media Matters and their masters, as right wing propaganda.
Got that? Fucked if we do, fucked if we don’t. Might as well not say a damn thing, and just go about doing what we do.
Fuck him, the paid shill. Dude oughta wear a “W” on his forehead to signify his profession.
Kimmitt
There’s two basic reasons the right isn’t dancing a jig. Number one, the job ain’t over.
Then why the explosion of triumphalism following the Iraq vote?
Mikey
“Then why the explosion of triumphalism following the Iraq vote?”
The same way you celebrate winning a battle in a large war, Kimmitt. It’s a Midway, a Gettysburg. It ain’t the end of the fighting, not by a longshot.
This is what Al was talking about, Kimmitt. We celebrate a victory, and its decried as triumphalism.
Kimmitt
Again, then, why the greater celebration following the Iraq elections than the Afghanistan elections?
Mikey
Is there a problem with that? If so, why? Why not celebrate? It looks like a trend. Is that a problem?
Why would it be a problem to celebrate a victory for democracy in a land that has known mostly fear and oppression since the second brick was put on top of the first at Ur?
Slartibartfast
What, there’s some sort of rule that says every birthday party has to be exactly the same? How boring.
RW
I saw plenty of celebrating following the Afghani elections. If you’ll recall, they occurred right before our elections, so the news cycle was riddled with our own campaigns, but there was indeed celebration. The prez noted them during the debates, did he not?
I wasn’t aware that arguing the unmeasurable was a valid point to make, any way. The crux is that the elections were good…..but bad news for the Bush haters, which says a lot.
Kimmitt
What, there’s some sort of rule that says every birthday party has to be exactly the same? How boring.
Fair enough; let’s try some other metrics.
Hypothesis: This democracy-promotion thing is only cool when it leads to people we like getting elected. Then it’s not.
Prediction: A military coup against the elected President of Venezuela will have elicted no protest — and a certain amount of approval. A later recall vote, despite being certified as “free and fair,” will be decried, since their preferred outcome did not take place.
Conclusion: Yeah, yeah. We get it.
Look, it doesn’t matter how you slice it — when the newfound discovery of democracy promotion conflicts with traditional conservative values (anticommunism, antiliberalism), it is quietly ignored, and when it supports those two values, it is trumpeted. Thanks, we get it.
Slartibartfast
Of course you get it, Michael; you can’t get anything else.
Your ability to predict the past is…well, I think it’s flawed. But since you won’t come out and say what you mean by all that, it’s hard to point to anything specific. I can’t think, though, that you imagine the Chavez government is a model of democracy.
Kimmitt
What would be a good test of the hypothesis in your opinion, then?
Slartibartfast
Well, the hypothesis itself sort of ignores that there may be in fact reasons why we like some regimes and don’t like others, even if they’ve got the trappings of democracy. You know, things like rigging elections, delaying constitutionally required referendums; that sort of thing.
Or you could just take the James Earl Carter/Polyanna approach and pretend that we just don’t like some people because…I don’t know, maybe they’re not golfers, or something? Still, much was made of this particular event in the media, but I don’t recall the administration making a big to-do about it. Could this have been your point, that we neglected to show proper concern where merited? If so, noted, with cautious and limited agreement.
There’s no point in testing it, Kimmitt. Even if validated, it’s utterly useless to the end of interpreting what you see.