I am not dead- just taking a quick break. But since I am here, I just thought I would put up this greatest hit from one of the reality-based community’s annointed heroes:
Former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV, dispatched by the CIA in February 2002 to investigate reports that Iraq sought to reconstitute its nuclear weapons program with uranium from Africa, was specifically recommended for the mission by his wife, a CIA employee, contrary to what he has said publicly.
Wilson last year launched a public firestorm with his accusations that the administration had manipulated intelligence to build a case for war. He has said that his trip to Niger should have laid to rest any notion that Iraq sought uranium there and has said his findings were ignored by the White House.
Wilson’s assertions — both about what he found in Niger and what the Bush administration did with the information — were undermined yesterday in a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report.
The panel found that Wilson’s report, rather than debunking intelligence about purported uranium sales to Iraq, as he has said, bolstered the case for most intelligence analysts. And contrary to Wilson’s assertions and even the government’s previous statements, the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in President Bush’s January 2003 State of the Union address.
Yesterday’s report said that whether Iraq sought to buy lightly enriched “yellowcake” uranium from Niger is one of the few bits of prewar intelligence that remains an open question. Much of the rest of the intelligence suggesting a buildup of weapons of mass destruction was unfounded, the report said.
The report turns a harsh spotlight on what Wilson has said about his role in gathering prewar intelligence, most pointedly by asserting that his wife, CIA employee Valerie Plame, recommended him.
Put that in your “Bush Lied, People Died” pipe and smoke it… (via Tom Maguire)
glennk
This was a rethug hatch job nothing more and nothing less. First these criminals destroy his wife’s career by outing her and committing a felony while doing it now not content to destroy her they will not rest till they get revenge on Amb. Wilson himself and anyone associated with him. Fascism is alive and well in Amerika and this libelous report proves it.
Ralph Gizzip
Try the lime, glennk. The grape seems to have too much kick.
Al Maviva
Glenn – you are a pathetic shitweasel. You didn’t even read the story, did you? You sure read Atrios’ talking points tho…
Here’s the relevant quote:
Wilson’s assertions — both about what he found in Niger and what the Bush administration did with the information — were undermined yesterday in a bipartisan Senate intelligence committee report.
It says “BIpartisan, fucko. That means “not just Republicans.”
On the other hand, if you are on that part of the political spectrum that considers Joe Lieberman (lifetime ACU rating 15) a radical right winger, then I guess maybe it was a right wing hit job, at least in your eyes. But then in your eyes, Ted Kennedy is probably a center-rightist, who is a little to conservative for your wild-eyed tastes…
syn
Now that Joe is no longer in ‘Vogue’ and Rather proved himself ‘Accurately Fake’, who will Big Brother use to manipulate the Collective?
Atrios, perhaps?
Bob
I’m looking for some little proof here. So far we know the following: the Bush Administration sent Wilson to Niger to investigate rumors, apparently generated by neocon buddies in Italian intelligence, that Iraq was shopping for yellow cake uranium for his up-and-running nuclear program. There was no Iraqi search for yellow cake, there was no functional nuclear program. Wilson reported that back to the White House. The WH used the original fake allegations to sell the war. When they continued the lie after Wilson contacted them to point out that they were telling untruths, he went public. After that, someone in the WH revealed that his wife was a CIA agent, a felony. Right now Judith Miller of the NYTimes is about to go to jail for refusing to release the name of the person in the WH who leaked this to her.
The line about Plame recommending her husband for the job has, so far, hung on an alleged top secret memo that someone in the White House slipped to Gannon/Guckert after he had allegedly slipped something to someone in the White House. No one’s produced the memo, and considering that that would open up another avenue to pursue criminal charges against whoever in the WH has been outing CIA agents for political gain, it won’t come out.
This is old crap, mostly unsubstantiated. The whole Niger scam was done by neocons with their pals in Italian intelligence to justify the war.
Just a review for the nitwits here: There were no weapons of mass destruction. The “evidence” was fake. You bought it, and now you’re buying the shit shoveled to you by the same people. You guys must like the taste.
Bob
syn, are you saying that Vogue is Big Brother? Vogue is headquarters for the Liberal Media, and all those fashion models are working full-time to trick bumpkins like you? Ah, but syn, you’re way too clever for that.
Bob
It’s clear that this story was released on a Friday so that it could marinate for a day and be ready to serve up to the talking heads on Sunday morning. Can we expect Administration friends and officials to make appearances to solemnly declare that Wilson somehow slandered this Administration to those true believers not in church? You betcha!
I don’t see a lot of meat on this bone except the word “bipartisan.” Those of you who believe in a black and white universe must now conclude that everyone agrees on this, whatever this this may be. Myself, I’ll wait for something new, like facts.
In the meantime, you can go here to check Wilson’s reply the last time this bone was thrown to the press 8 or 9 months ago:
http://www.alternet.org/stories/19271
Bob
Finally, did Bush lie?
Yes.
Did people die as a direct correlation to his lying?
Yes.
I guess we can theoretically put it in our pipe and smoke it, though I’d think that the bully boys here would rather puff on Bush’s shit.
Kimmitt
the CIA did not tell the White House it had qualms about the reliability of the Africa intelligence that made its way into 16 fateful words in
This is splitting hairs pretty fine — the conclusions imply (to me) that while the CIA did not adequately inform others of the flaws with the intelligence, other intelligence agencies, most notably the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR) did, and that information was included in the NIE (though, granted, apparently in the wrong section).
CadillaqJaq
Sadly, nasty shit like this always rears it’s ugly head when Bob and our other leftist friends start ranting that no WMD existed in Iraq…
From the Daily Telegram:
Saddam’s $2m offer to WMD inspector
By Francis Harris in Washington
(Filed: 12/March/2005)
Saddam Hussein’s regime offered a $2 million (
glennk
The whole fucking Iraq war was planned from even before the Bu$H criminal gang strong armed it’s way into power. Hell, we have his own fucking Treasury Sect. Paul O’neil saying as much in his book. Bu$h, Cheney the neocons etc. al had their individual reasons for wanting an Iraq war and they sold it too u right wing morons. Keep drinking the Bu$h cool-aid fuckwits there seems to be plenty to go around.
John Cole
Bob- Read the damned story. I t was written almost a year ago, and not released on Friday for the talking heads on Sunday.
You people and your fucking conspiracy theories.
‘Reality-based’ means not reality- something you prove once again here.
Kimmitt
Way to respond to the troll and ignore the link to the actual document.
Sav
It’ll be hard getting through several layers of foil, but what the hell.
“So far we know the following: the Bush Administration sent Wilson to Niger to investigate rumors…”
The CIA sent Wilson, not the administration.
“There was no Iraqi search for yellow cake”
This is far from proven. Iraq sent an agent to Niger looking to “trade.” Niger basically only exports two things: cattle and uranium, but mostly the latter. Considering Iraq had gone to Niger looking for uranium in the 80’s, I’d say the chances are good that that is what this agent was sent there for in ’99.
“The WH used the original fake allegations to sell the war.”
The WH used British-based intel which has not been proven to be inaccurate.
“After that, someone in the WH revealed that his wife was a CIA agent, a felony.”
It is only a felony if the person revealing the information does so knowing he is outing a covert agent. That seems to be far from the case here.
As for the Gannon conspiracy, if you and the Kossites say so.
i There were no weapons of mass destruction.
Yet somehow just about every country’s intel service came to the same conclusion as the United States, so much so that the UN voted 15-0 on a resolution in November of ’02 demanding Iraq turn over or destroy its WMD’s or face severe consequences. Even Bill Clinton told the prime minister or Portugal that he believe Iraq had WMD’s up until the invasion.
“The “evidence” was fake.”
You’re thinking of the CBS memos.
Dr. Weevil
Hint to ‘glennk’:
Using words like ‘Rethugs’ and ‘Bu$h’ tells any fair-minded person on either side of the aisle that you have nothing intelligent to say.
There are similar words used by kneejerk spouters on the right: ‘Democraps’, ‘Demoncrats’, ‘Hitlery’ or ‘Shrillary’ for Mrs. Clinton, lots more. They may have been amusing once, or twice, but after they’ve been used thousands of times, they’re just stupid. When I see any of these words in a comment, I turn the metaphorical page and immediately dismiss whatever else the writer has to say. Try writing for grownups.
Bob
Absolutely right, John Cole, I read the blog Tom Maguire blog and presumed that the right-wingers weren’t still bellyaching about the story from a year ago. I mistakenly thought that there was something new. My bad. There is nothing new here, is there? This is just a regurgitation of the same old crap.
Sav says the White House “used British Intel which has not been proved wrong.” I guess that means that you don’t listen to the BBC much, do you? I guess you didn’t listen to the hearings in Parliament. By the way, we’re talking about the same British Intel that told Tony Blair that Iraq had nuclear weapons that could strike Britain in 45 minutes? By the way, the Italian intelligence sources, the folks who brought us the strategy of tension back in the 1970s, was the probably source of the whole yellowcake story.
Sav says, “The CIA sent Wilson, not the Administration.” Now, are you saying that the CIA was operating independently of the Administration? We may be splitting hairs here, but it’s my understanding that the Administration had concerns about Saddam pursuing weapons of mass destruction. Perhaps the CIA was looking independently of the White House? Or, perhaps they were acting on their own? Or what? You may be trying to make a point by splitting hairs here, but somehow I suspect that in some way the Administration wanted to justify invading Iraq and seemed to be playing the yellowcake tune. No relationship between the White House and the CIA coming up to the war in Iraq, or what?
Sav continues, “Iraq sent an agent to trade.” The source of your information, the name of the agent, who he met with, and to what end?
As far as whether or not revealing Plame’s identity was a felony, we shall see.
As Glennk says, the neocons wanted this war. They wanted back when they were writing that New American Century stuff in the nineties. The problem is that bankrupting the country in a war that at best serves only a few narrow corporate interests is going to make this the German Century, or maybe the Chinese Century.
Nate
There was no Iraqi search for yellow cake, there was no functional nuclear program.
Wouldn’t the Iraqis need uranium to have a “functional” nuke program, though?
But to the facts, Wilson himself reported that there were meetings between Iraq and Niger, and his report gave the CIA MORE reasons to think that Iraq was seeking uranium, since that is the only thing that Niger has of value to Iraq.
The WH used the original fake allegations to sell the war.
I guess you don’t read too much. Try the Butler report. Or the Senate Intelligence Committee Report. Or get the gist of it from the non-partisan Factcheck.org.
http://www.factcheck.org/article222.html
Bush said then,
Bob
Nate, the Iraqis would need a hell of a lot of things in addition to nuclear material in order to have a functional nuclear weapons program, most of which they did not have. They were not about to launch a missile that would hit London in 45 minutes. But they didn’t have that. In fact, the minimal rumors of a nuclear program, not any real program, was the basis for the war.
You might also note that it wasn’t the CIA that was publicly proclaiming that Saddam was building up a nuclear weapons program, but Bush and his minions. The CIA was not making the SOTU speech.
So, did BUSHCO use the threat of an Iraqi nuclear weapons program to incite the country to war?
Yes.
Was there any kind of nuclear weapons program working in Iraq?
No.
The bad man Saddam is captured. The Iraqis voted.
The only reason Bush and Co. have left to be Iraq is to use it as a base to assert military power in the region. Are we building permanent military bases there?
Yes.
Are we gone yet?
No.
The permanent base idea was floating around the neocons’ pointed little heads back in the 90s. They got it, didn’t they? Just a few lies, a few true believers, and a gullible public.
By the way, saying that what Saddam may have wanted is what he had is sort of like saying your Christmas list is the same as the contents of your toy box.
Finally, when we talk about research, see if you can find out what Moe and Walter Annenberg (Factcheck.org is from the Annenberg School of Journalism)were doing in the 1930s and 40s, and how Walter got to be such a rich man. And check the website to see how much space covers organized crime and its insinuation into the American power structure (Walt was a good buddy to Ronnie).
P.S.: Notice how Osama doesn’t get much coverage anymore? Must not be needed to generate a war. Maybe he’s retired to the family palace back in Arabia. That’s probably where he keeps his pretty gold robes.
Bob
from SLATE:
Citizen Annenberg
So long, you rotten bastard.
By Jack Shafer
Posted Wednesday, Oct. 2, 2002, at 1:37 PM PT
Annenberg bought and paid for his rose-colored obits
Today’s Page One obituaries for Walter H. Annenberg in the Los Angeles Times, New York Times, and Washington Post barely scrape the festering keratosis that was his career in crime, journalism, and politics. “Media Tycoon Gave Fortunes to Others,” soft-pedals the Los Angeles Times. “Walter Annenberg, Philanthropist and Publisher, Dies at 94,” intones the New York Times. “Publisher, Philanthropist Walter Annenberg Dies,” echoes the Post.
I’d prefer the headline, “Billionaire Son of Mobster, Enemy of Journalism, and Nixon Toady Exits for Hell
Nate
They were not about to launch a missile that would hit London in 45 minutes.
Nor did anyone claim such. The British “45-minute” claim was about bio/chem WMD on the battlefields of Iraq.
In fact, the minimal rumors of a nuclear program, not any real program, was the basis for the war.
I eagerly await your revisionist history book where nuclear programs and not bio/chem WMD and Resolution 1441 were the “basis for the war.”
You might also note that it wasn’t the CIA that was publicly proclaiming that Saddam was building up a nuclear weapons program, but Bush and his minions.
Senators Waxman, Byrd, Clinton, Kerry and President Clinton are now Bush’s “minions?” You should let them know, so they’ll get their “Bush’s Minions” T-Shirts!
The only reason Bush and Co. have left to be Iraq is to use it as a base to assert military power in the region.
Well…and to try to stop the terrorist remnants of the old Saddam regime (and their Al Qaeda enablers) from blowing up many more thousands of their countrymen who dare to seek majority rule.
Are we building permanent military bases there? Yes.
Like in Germany? What, is Germany also a US puppet government in your view?
Finally, when we talk about research, see if you can find out what Moe and Walter Annenberg (Factcheck.org is from the Annenberg School of Journalism)were doing in the 1930s and 40s, and how Walter got to be such a rich man.
None of this feeble attempt at discrediting a respected non-partisan site (cited by lefties as much as righties during the election) helps to prop up your debunked DNC regurg of the Niger yellowcake story. If you have something against Factcheck.org, then you are free to read the full Butler Report or the US Senate Intel Committee report.
The facts remain that Bush didn’t lie about the attempt to buy uranium and that Joe Wilson was just a particularly useless partisan hack.
syn
Bob, how can I possibly be a ‘bumpkin’ when I live in NYC, a city which was attacked TWICE in less than ten years and where diehard life-long Democrats look at people like you as the reason why the Democratic Party is doomed to extinction.
Tell me Bob, do you wish to have more death upon us NYC ‘bumpkins’ because we do not subscribe to the political agenda coming from a small group of monolithic intellectual elitist in the publishing world who believe America is the source of all evil in the world, that America does not have a right to defend herself, that attacks upon Americans are justified?
Perhaps you must blame Bush because you are in shock at the discovery that the Progressive Leftist agenda controlling our news outlets has lied to you all these long years with concepts like “Saddam is contained and is not a problem.” Saddam was a serious threat to the world which, thanks to Bush, we will no longer have to worry about. Just because the NY Times tells you otherwise, that Saddam was not a threat, is no resaon for NYC bumpkins like me to believe people like you.
BY the way, do you remember when President Clinton and the US Congress declared war against Saddam Hussein in 1998 because they foresaw that containment was worthless, that Saddam was a serious threat to our world? I believe a slew of Democrats at the time backed Clinton’s declaration of war in Iraq.
I’ll say it again, the vacuous rantings of hollow arguments you present are the very reason why life-long NYC Democrat ‘bumpkins’ voted for Bush in 2004.
TJ Jackson
You can always tell when you are scoring hits when your opposition moves from high pitched whine to shrill screamng. Wilson congressional testimony states that Saddam had tried to buy 400 tonnes of nuclear materials from Niger despite his public statements. Apparently lying to Congress wasn’t that appealing given his cables to SecState but it is interesting to see reactions of the Baghdad Bob brigades.
TJ Jackson
You can always tell when you are scoring hits when your opposition moves from high pitched whine to shrill screamng. Wilson congressional testimony states that Saddam had tried to buy 400 tonnes of nuclear materials from Niger despite his public statements. Apparently lying to Congress wasn’t that appealing given his cables to SecState but it is interesting to see reactions of the Baghdad Bob brigades.
Kimmitt
Cite please on the Congressional testimony?
Perhaps you must blame Bush because you are in shock at the discovery that the Progressive Leftist agenda controlling our news outlets has lied to you all these long years with concepts like “Saddam is contained and is not a problem.” Saddam was a serious threat to the world which, thanks to Bush, we will no longer have to worry about.
Saddam was a very bad man who was a serious threat to the Iraqi people, but there is no way he was anything but a contained threat to the world.
a
Hey Bob, whence your fascination with the taste and aroma of feces? You and the rest of the Tourette’s Left, I mean. It’s your idea comfort food, I take it?
Well, anyhow, Rove said in my orders today that I’ve got to stay on message, so I guess I’ll take a swing at that:
Saddam Hussein was contained by the sanctions. The sanctions were bad for the Iraqi people, of course: Before Bush decided that sanctions were bad, the left believed that sanctions were very very bad indeed, but now that Bush has ended them, the left has realized that sanctions were a golden age, though they still change their minds temporarily for rhetorical reasons.
In fact, the sactions were a depressingly normal “pragmatic” UN-style exercise in making temporary problems permanent, to the massive detriment of everybody except kleptocratic dictators, UN functionaries, and a few big businesses who had the foresight to pay off the right kleptocrats and functionaries. No conspiracy, kids, just garden-variety corruption on a grand scale, wedded to garden-variety realpolitik amoralism. Remember back when economic sanctions were supposed to be a humane alternative to war? I’m sure a lot of people on the left still believe it.
Be that as it may, the sanctions regime was falling apart: After ten years, the chattering classes had forgotten why it was done in the first place, and a lot of crooks in a lot of governments thought they could make a lot more money with Saddam Hussein back on top of his game again. The whole thing was perfectly sordid from end to end, the kind of stupid, sleazy, craven, shortsighted “pragmatic” crap the Eurodiplos (and their fans in the US) just love to wallow in. And for characteristically stupid, sleazy, craven, and shortsighted reasons, it would’ve ended in a few years and Saddam Hussein would’ve been in a position to pick fights with the neighbors again — and would’ve had a burning need to prove his manhood by doing so.
Meanwhile, the coprophagic left (the ones now claiming that the sanctions were great) were demanding an immediate end to the sanctions all along. Couldn’t hardly walk through Harvard Square some days without a hirsute cretin waving flyers in your face and ululating about “genocide” (“genocide” being defined as “whatever the people they hate happen to be doing at the moment” — e.g., I myself am sitting at a desk, which qualifies as genocide-by-intent under a trivially obvious minor extention of the principles set forth in the Geneva conventions, namely that the people who ran Buchenwald had desks too — THE PARALLELS ARE STRIKING!)
So: Hussein was “contained” by fragile and destructive means, so fragile in fact that he was due to pop out of his container any year now, all the suffering of his subjects having accomplished precisely squat.
(This message brought to you by the Zionist Neocon Conspiracy, a wholly owned subsidiary of KnightsTemplarCorp, Cecil Rhodes, and the International Bankers).
a
N.B. Note that the confusion between good sanctions and bad sanctions is not mine; it’s the left’s. Most of them seem to have, at various times, believed one or the other about the sanctions on Hussein’s Iraq, and many have in their more athletic moments clearly believed both at once.
syn
“no way he was anything but a contained threat to the world” So Saddam NEVER invaded Kuwait?
As I recall these same irrational words ‘not a threat’ were spoken for well over a quarter of a century regarding Islamic Jihad and look what that brought to the world.
“Not a threat” are irrational words spoken basically for the sake of maintaining a false sense of peace and stability.
Bob
Nate, we fought the Second World War against Germany. Germany had declared war on the US after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Western industrialists saw the Nazi regime as a “cordon sanitaire” preventing the spread of Communism any farther into Europe. American forces remained in Germany after the war to maintain that “cordon sanitaire” and thus began the Cold War.
The United States invaded Iraq, without sanction of the UN and to the great disapproval of most of the world.
There certainly are parallels about where the US plants its military around the world and our military stay in Iraq. Take Subic Bay, for instance. The Panama Canal was for years used to maintain our military influence in Latin America.
Annenberg and his dad were gangsters. People were found dead in trunks of cars with pennies shoved up their asses because they talked. This was during the wire wars. It’s the nature of capitalism. You make your money, you clean your hands, you become respectable in the eyes of other thieves who managed to wash their hands. The Bushes made money with the Nazis, with corrupt dictatorships around the world, scamming oil deals, defrauding S&Ls, cutting land deals. On the plus side for the Annenbergs, I’m sure they killed far fewer people on their way to their nestegg than the Bushes have. The Bushes seem to have no concern at all about human lives.
Finally, Joe Wilson was (is?) a Republican, was for a short time after April Glaspie disappeared the first George Bush’s ambassador to Iraq.
You, Nate, are a partisan hack. An unthinking partisan hack.
Bob
syn, the people who brought you 9/11 were almost all Saudi. They were led by Osama bin Laden, a Saudi. The Saudis for years have been financing mosques around the world and supplying imams preaching the Wahhabbi hardline, antithetical to Western thought. Because of the long relationship between the Republican Party (goes back to the Dulles in the 30s), Bush is powerless to act against them. Heck, I’ve heard that even Grover Norquist is taking money from them.
Did Saddam have anything to do with 9/11? No. Is it ignorant ranting of someone who has been manipulated by BushCo propaganda to bring up 9/11 as having something to do with Iraq? You betcha!
syn, the thing about the leftist agenda controlling the media is pathetic. You are a sick little boy.
Bob
a, so Saddam was a threat?
Okay, Saddam arrested, Saddam’s massive military juggernaut destroyed, all WMDs which did not exist still confirmed to not exist.
Why are we still there?
Democracy? Hey, they voted. Like everyone said, the Kurds want independence, the Shia want a religious state and everyone hates the Sunni. Are we staying until everyone likes each other? That would be, then, forever.
As far as your insinuation of anti-Semitism, your cousins in the backwoods have been chanting that for years, and when their medicaid is cut off guess who they be blaming?
syn, as you should have recalled, when Saddam invaded Kuwait fifteen years ago, he did it after Glaspie gave a vague statement that most would interpret as American disinterest in the whole affair. After he invaded Kuwait he and his military was made impotent for anything other than internal security by an alliance of military forces. Iraq, after the war, had no air force. The northern Kurdish area was protected by allied (American) air forces, as was the south.
After the war Saddam was never a military threat to anyone, including Kuwait.
In the age of Queen Elizabeth I the Spanish were a threat to England. They are not a threat today.
Nate
Finally, Joe Wilson was (is?) a Republican, was for a short time after April Glaspie disappeared the first George Bush’s ambassador to Iraq.
His NEXT job, as I said, was as a partisan shill for the Kerry campaign.
You, Nate, are a partisan hack. An unthinking partisan hack.
Namecalling in lieu of cogent defenses of your ridiculous statements? I’m just stunned.
Slartibartfast
I just scroll on right by, Nate. You can never get that time back.
Defense Guy
It’s not even worth bothering responding to the ‘no wmd’ crowd. The fact that he had them, used them, and never accounted for all of them means nothing to these partisan hacks. The only thing that does matter is to keep the ‘Bush = Satan’ meme alive.
Kimmitt
The fact that he had them, used them, and never accounted for all of them means nothing to these partisan hacks.
Just as the fact that we went to war based on something which the folks who were in the best position to know — Blix and Ritter — said was false, and that they were vindicated, means nothing to the pro-war crowd. Simply put, the facts are irrelevant; they’re not reality-based.
Slartibartfast
Has Ritter ever said anything that he hasn’t already said the opposite of? Just wondering.
Kimmitt
“Slime” phase complete; entering “Defend” phase.
Slartibartfast
‘Turtle’ phase complete; entering ‘Inscrutable’ phase.
Bob
Defense guy, it’s real easy to track down that infamous photo of Rumsfeld gladhanding with Saddam back in the 80s on the very day he was using poison gas. When Saddam had his weapons of mass destruction, Defense guy, he was our boy. Then-VP GHW Bush was secretly steering money in the form of agriculture loans in order for Iraq to get down and dirty in their war with Iran.
The official Republican position on the Kurds has been to use them when we need them, then fuck ’em. That goes back at least as far as Nixon (I wish I could remember the Kissinger quote from back then, it was a doozy). Of course, that’s the official Republican Party position for lots of people, so why should Reagan have given a shit at the time that Saddam was gassing the Kurds?
So Republican Administrations (with plenty of help from European corporations) had been loading up Saddam with WMDs over the years. Now that it’s been proven that his WMD programs had been effectively ended after the Gulf War we have Defense guy pissing in his pants in fear about a guy sitting in a jail cell in Baghdad. Pathetic.
Bob
Nate, so if Joe Wilson says that Bush’s whole misrepresentation of the yellowcake was untrue, he must be working for Kerry? Can’t a Republican who has served as an ambassador and who found nothing credible to the yellowcake story be a Republican, or is dissent by definition cause for banishment? Don’t bother to answer, you’re probably in your Turtle phase now.
moptop
Bob, no matter how many times you say it, 2+2 does not equal 3. If you read the evidence slowly and carefully, perhaps many times, you will perhaps understand that Joe Wilson, on his own, never had any possibility of proving the negative that he asserted. It’s philosophy 101. Proving a negative is extremely difficult, if not impossible, (just like proving that it is impossible, btw) in all but the simplest cases. Of course, you guys in the ‘reality based’ community don’t need logic.
And if you want to prove to me that you have actually thought about the issue, hows about you recap the argument of us nutbags that Wilson’s findings strengthened the case for the CIA, and then tell us why it is wrong.
You can’t do it because you can’t understand it. You are stuck in your sewer of Bush hatred.
moptop
I’ll go first and recap your argument:
“Joe Wilson said that his findings weakened the case that Iraq had sought Uranium, and that’s good enough for me. I don’t need to hear specifics.” — Your side.
Bob
moptop: Wanting is not having.
Saddam did not have a nuclear program up and running, nor a chemical or biological weapons program when we invaded Iraq this time around.
The absurdity of invading a country on an unproven rumor, which, even if true, would still not equate an immediate threat since Iraq was incapable of making nuclear weapons, is apparently lost on you.
If the only thing standing between the US and warring against anyone in the world is proving a negative, then I guess we’ll be permanently at war for the next four years.
100,000 Iraqis dead. 1500 Americans, maybe 25,000 injured, some fucked up real bad (although BushCo flies them back into the country at night to cut down the bad publicity). How much money has it cost now? Have we hit a quarter trillion yet? For what?
Oil.
The yellowcake story seems to have been invented by Michael Ledeen’s Propaganda Due buddies in Rome. Somebody count how many degrees of separation we now are from Il Duce.
Ah, The Strategy of Tension never goes out of style. And it never fails to scare you guys. Fascism is such an effective tool to scare the little men.