This is mind-numbing:
Thirty-nine-year-old Terri Schiavo may not live to see her 40th birthday. She’s not terminally ill. She’s not engaged in inherently dangerous activities. She’s not on Death Row.
So, you might wonder, why is she about to die? Schiavo has a profound cognitive disability.
And Stephen Hawking has a limp.
Helen Keller had a slight lisp.
Why didn’t you quote /this/ portion of that very same article you linked?
“Dr. William Hammesfahr, a world-renowned expert in cases such as Terri’s
At the risk of falling into semantic games, I must ask why the description isn’t good enough for you. Nay, it’s worse – it’s even demagoguery!
It’s the accurate, and it isn’t exactly sugarcoated. If the speaker had omitted “profound” you might have something.
And any other problems she might have might have been ameliorated if Michael Schiavo had been spending his malpractice settlement money as intended rather than using to pay to help have her killed.
Incidentally, from a previous post – how do you know what Michael Schiavo will do with any remaining settlement money?
Let’s not get sidetracked by questions of motive, as Mr. Cole (and us) can argue those all day without getting anywhere, due to the lack of telepathy.
Concentrate instead on something that’s closer to objective proof — such as the fact that this ‘ironclad’ diagnosis of Persistent Vegetative State looks a helluva lot less ironclad when there’s a veritable stampede of neurosurgeons filing affadavits challenging the diagnosis, and when even under the *best* of circumstances, the diagnosis of PVS has a significant error rate.
“Because of these difficulties, the American Academy of Neurology has made it clear that it can take months for a physician to establish with confidence the diagnosis of PVS. A 1996 British Medical Journal study, conducted at England
There is no money. Only 50k remains.
If it were about money, he would have accepted the 10 million he was offered.
Out of curiosity- why do you think you know better what to do with Terr Schiavo than her husband?
Should your wife get ill, send me an email. I will then tell you how to treat her, since you are not allowed to make the decision.
BTW- this is demagoguery because she does not have a ‘profound disability.’
She is BRAIN-DEAD
To declare her ‘brain-dead’ as a statement of fact would require a competent diagnosis of Persistent Vegatative State by a qualified neurosurgeon, and there’s a bakers’ dozen of those filing affadavits to challenge the competency and thoroughness of the original diagnosis.
Does that fact make no difference in your thinking?
Indeed, it appears that the claim ‘her brain is liquid!’ is also in doubt.
“Other neurologists have concurred with Dr. Morin
Given this poor woman’s history, all its years of being maintained as almost a biology experiment, it doesn’t take a team of board-certified neurological experts to determine what Terri Schiavo’s situation is.
To say it’s a cognitive disability is, as John Cole suggests, just ludicrous. A reasonable, well-adjusted, compassionate adult need only spend a couple of hours with her to know that she’s been gone from human life for a long time and isn’t coming back.
What she has is not even a pale imitation of life. It’s a kind of entrapment.
I value life very much and don’t ever want to see people hurried off to death without all reasonable means to help and heal them having been tried. But really, what’s been done with her for some time now is neither helping nor healing her. Past some point, persisting this way serves only to cheapen our definition of life.
Say a prayer for her and for her loved ones and friends, whose sorrow must be terrible. Then, mercifully, say goodbye.
If being in a “persistent vegetative state” qualifies one for state-approved termination, then why on earth are we left with morons like Oliver, atrios, Kos, et.al.???
Then, mercifully, say goodbye.
Yes, because we all know how ‘merciful’ it is to starve a person to death.
I don’t know who to believe. People have lined up on every possible angle of this issue, claiming they speak The Truth. How am I supposed to reconcile the apparent vegetative state with some of the videos I’ve seen?
Any way you slice it, the Florida courts made the right decision. This was between Terri and her husband, regardless of the outcome.
“Any way you slice it, the Florida courts made the right decision.”
Um, the way several of us slice it, they didn’t. I understand you think we’re wrong, but first you should allow for the possibility of a differing viewpoint.
JPS, I do appreciate the differing viewpoints. From some of the videos I’ve seen, I’m inclined to think that Terri does have some slim hope for a very partial rehabilitation. From what I understand, the idea that her brain has partially liquified is based on a fuzzy (picture?), and better tests would conclusively show one way or the other. I suppose I could try to track down more accurate information, but in the end, it legally comes to what Terri and her husband want — not her parents, not the US Congress (unless they want to and are constitutionally able to fundamentally alter the nature of marriage), not you or I. Terri’s husband asserted Terri would not want to exist in such a fashion.
Hopefully, the attention this case has received will motivate people to document their wishes in a living will.
(And, yes, I know marriage is not mentioned in the constitution, but neither is the devined right to privacy, among other things…)
The law in Florida would seem to grant Mr. Schiavo every right to determine what medical treatment his incapacitated wife may and may not receive. The ham-fisted interference of the State and the Feds are jaw-dropping and utterly chilling. Shame on them for turning a private tragedy into a circus. Are we a country of laws or are we not?
Out of curiosity- why do you think you know better what to do with Terr Schiavo than her husband?
For one, I don’t have a conflict of interest. And I don’t have any reason to want to prevent her from having an autopsy.
Questions: do you have any objection to having neurologists examine Terri using appropriate diagnostic equipment such as MRI? Do you object to an autopsy after she’s gone? Do you think there’s any possibility that Terri got the way she is (ie via deprivation of oxygen) through foul play? (her sister says she did not have a heart attack and there was no proof of alleged “eating disorders” leading to low potassium either)? Are you willing to consider the possibility that Michael Schiavo has something to hide that’s worth more than $10M?
J Bowen:For one, I don’t have a conflict of interest.
This is absurd words. Guess what? Virtually any spouse in the same situation (i.e. having to make or death decision over their spouse) stands to gain financially from their spouse’s death. Whether we are talking life insurance or simply gaining full control over community property there is almost always going to be a “conflict of interest.”
If such alleged “conflicts” mean that a spouse’s decisions (and testimony) should be disregarded then, congratulations, you have effectively revoked the right of a spouse to make these decisions in 99.99% of the cases.
More importantly, as Laurie points out, the laws of Florida hold differently. Your personal opinion has no legal weight.
He doesn’t care. He has read the propaganda put out by Randall Terry’s lawyers about phantom strangulation and a fake head injury, and he is now convinced that Mike caused her injury and is now trying to ‘kill’ her to cover up his crime. It is insanity, but he is completely convinced.
Sure, John. Those filthy pro-lifers can’t possibly be holding their position in a principled manner, can they?
They’re just swallowing propaganda whole or worse, creating it.
God knows, anyone who doesn’t agree with you is either misinformed or malicious.
You’ve been spending too much time at DailyKos, my man.
I am not the one flat out making shit up about Terry Schiavo being strangled and that causing the heart attack.
I am not the one stating she has a head injury that caused the brain damage.
The parents and their proxy attack dogs in the pro-life movement, who have co-opted this issue as a battle in the larger war over abortion, have been spreading these vicious lies and rumors about Michael Schiavo. It is that simple.
Last night they were on MSNBC, LArry King- whoever would film them, spreading the rumors. They would never come out and directly accuse him of anything, because then they wouldn’t have a leg t stand on, as the medical diagnosis is pretty conclusive- the heart attack was caused by her bulemia.
Instead, they say charming things like “There are a lot of rumors” or “I have heard rumors.”
BTW- I see you have learned a thing or two about villification. I don’t read the Daily Kos, and I rarely agree with them. That doesn’t mean I am blind to despicable behavior from my side of the aisle. Have you seen the talking points circulating among Republicans on this issue?
ABC News has obtained talking points circulated among Republican senators explaining why they should vote to intervene in the Schiavo case. Among them: “This is an important moral issue and the pro-life base will be excited…” and “This is a great political issue… this is a tough issue for Democrats.”
Suggest moving on to a new/different issue before you offend ALL of your regular readers!!!
Great posts, John. I think that the “right to life” argument really loses its teeth when you objectively look at the situation and realize that you can’t really call it “life” anymore.
I love how, when religious people have already formed their own opinion, they feel completely justified in discarding any science that they don’t happen to agree with.
A reasonable, well-adjusted, compassionate adult need only spend a couple of hours with her to know that she’s been gone from human life for a long time and isn’t coming back.
And you would know this how?
JC – I’ll ask again. Do you have a problem with getting her an MRI, and having an autopsy on her?
Or is that “insane”?
Why bother? Nothing will satisfy the zealots, and her husband’s interpretatation of her wishes should be absolutely paramount.
Terry wrote: “Suggest moving on to a new/different issue before you offend ALL of your regular readers!!!”
No, as a matter of fact, John is making a principled stand on something he obviously cares deeply about. He’s not gubbing for popularity.
Try to wrap your apparently ideologically vacuum-molded mind around the concept of integrity and you might be able to grasp why he’s posted his thinking on this, and why he will keep on posting his thinking on this.
I’m on the opposite side of most issues with John. But except when he lapses into name calling and imputing lowdown motives to those with whom he disagrees, I respect him and find him a worthy opponent.
Bottom line: If you’re only happy with a me-too chorus, write your own blog and either don’t allow comments or delete all the ones that disagree with you. If you need pointers on any of that, check with the brain trust at Blogs For Bush, because that’s their M.O.
Too busy driving a new mercedes and his fiancee of 10 years and himself too busy making millions off of their own insurance business which they set up as a shell company and one that was sold for over 50mill. Many in this country are completely clueless and so are many of our leaders, either that or deliberately negligent and complicit in aiding and abetting a murder occurring right before our eyes and before the eyes of the world. A perfectly healthy (non-terminal) human being was dehydrated/starved to death and everyone said she died.. it’s called murder and we are reliving Nazi Germany times. I’m glad that there are others like me that have a clue but apparently we were not strong enough to combat those who are in power, judges, law enforcement, etc. who aided and abetted this murder.
Mae Magouirk safe for now. See Tekgnosis for further details.
Tell the Media to report the REAL Schiavo polls!
My account, etc. of Terri Schindler’s Funeral Mass:
From another before Terri’s murder:
WHEN THE WHOLE WORLD KNOWS THAT YOU CAN SAVE ‘TERRI SCHINDLER’ .
NOW FROM ‘JUSTICE WATCH’-
HOW DO YOU THINK TO CONTINUE ON IN OFFICE AND HAVE ANY RESPECT?
THE FACTS AND DOCUMENTS ON TERRI’S MURDER . OF 15+ YEARS ARE BEING PUBLISHED!!!
The NEW POLLS TO COME-OUT ARE:
IF YOU KNEW THAT YOUR DAUGHTER HAD BEEN BEATEN AND AFTER BEING HOSPITALIZED SOMEONE CRASHED IN HER HEAD. AND THEN FOR 15+ YEARS THE CORRUPT LAWYERS, POLITICIANS AND HUSBAND CONTINUED TO FALSIFY DOCUMENTS AND FACT, WERE INVOLVED IN MEDICAID FRAUD AND MORE, WOULD YOU ALLOW THEM TO FINALIZE THE PREMEDITATED MURDER OF YOUR DAUGHTER – WHEN IN FACT SHE COULD BE CURED?
YES? ________ OR NO? _________
THE POLLS UP TO NOW WERE FIXED!!! THESE WON’T BE!!!! AND WHEN THEY POP (LIKE SWIFTBOAT VETS) THOSE INVOLVED ARE GOING TO ‘PRISON’!!!!