You couldn’t pay me to be this guy:
Hours after President Bush signed legislation early today that would allow a federal court to intervene in the case of Terri Schiavo, a judge in Tampa began conducting a hearing to consider a request by her parents to reinsert her feeding tube.
The hearing before United States District Judge James D. Whittemore began shortly after 3 p.m., and continued a day of intense activity on many fronts to try to intervene in Ms. Schiavo’s case, which has ignited an emotional national debate over the right-to-die issue. On Sunday, Mr. Bush flew back to Washington from his Texas ranch to sign legislation that was approved by Congress in the early hours this morning.
He is not going to rule in favor of the Schindler’s and their Holy Warrior allies in Congress, and you watch- all hell is going to break loose. Despite the fact that there is simply no way this legislation could be validated, poor Judge Whittemore is going to destroyed in the next few days.
When waging jihad, you can’t worry about a little collateral damage, and that is what Whittemore will become, as will anyone else who dare stand in the way of the fight for the ‘culture of life.’ Why, he is a Clinton appointee! An Activist Judge! Out of control judiciary!
Terri Schiavo’s desires and the desires of her husband don’t matter. The Constitution be damned. Separation of powers be buggered. Federalism-Schmederalism. Check out this for shocking demagoguery:
Like other Republican lawmakers championing Schiavo’s bill, DeLay often suggests she is alert and potentially treatable.
“She talks and she laughs and she expresses likes and discomforts,” he said Sunday evening. “It won’t take a miracle to help Terri Schiavo. It will only take the medical care and therapy that patients require.”
People who lie this easily and openly and are this disconnected from the truth- people like this don’t care about pesky things like facts, and they certainly don’t care about destroying someone like Michael Schiavo, and as you shall soon see, United States District Judge James D. Whittmore.
I am truly sad for my Republican party.
Paul B.
I am truly sad for my Republican party
Me too. They didn’t even make it to six months on the new congress before they destroyed whatever libertarian/moderate alliance they had. Can’t say the dems are much better, but it makes me sad to see the GOP loose all their credibility on states rights, judicial activism and decentralized government in one flaming wreck. Worse yet I’ve had to unbookmark some of my favorite blogs because all you’d have to do is swap some words around and they’d sound like the Daily Kos.
Steve Malynn
What is the language of the statute that allows an interested party to speak for an incapacitated party and cause the death of the incapacitated party.
This seems to me to be an unacceptable abrogation of basic rules of evidence, and not at all what any “living will” statute is about.
I could be wrong, but implying that your opponents have only “holy rolling” behind them does not go far convince.
Terry
John, I believe this latest overwrought post leads me to conclude that I should bid adieu.
bg
Just curious Paul, who have you stopped reading?
PS: See ya round Terry.
willyb
“People who are lie this easily and openly and are this disconnected from the truth- people like this don’t care about pesky things like facts”
Pray tell me John, where do you find your “truth” and your “facts”??? Have you actually visited Terri Schiavo and spent enough time to determine her condition? Or are you relying on a source for your pesky little facts and the truth contained therein?
Where did you get the “fact” that Terri Schiavo wants to be starved to death?
willyb
Terry:
I don’t think you should abandon this blog because you disagree with John on this issue, or is your decision to say goodbye based on more than this?
Where will you go?
JohnO
Bullshit. Federal judges have little job security worries. As the old joke goes, “what is the difference between a federal judge and a terrorist? A: You can negotiate with a terrorist.”
Your sympathies with a highly paid, federal worker (who likely works
Kimmitt
They didn’t even make it to six months on the new congress before they destroyed whatever libertarian/moderate alliance they had.
I actually don’t agree; the Republican leadership has done a good enough job of demonizing the Democratic Party that I think y’all will stay with the Republicans pretty much no matter what they do. You did through the first four years of Bush, and I see no reason why you won’t through the next four. Dunno; hope I’m wrong.
willyb
Good Grief Kimmitt, given the choices provided by the Democrats, it’s a no-brainer. We can only hope for gridlock…
Fledermaus
Bullshit. Federal judges have little job security worries.
That is also true. Personally I think he means that Judge Whittemore is about to become a talk radio celebaty if he upholds the previous decisions, as seems likely.
All it will accomplish, though, is to annoy the federal trial bench as a whole. First the extra workload for the class action cases, now this mess.
Oh and I just noticed that part about him being a Clinton appointee. It’s like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.
Paul B.
You know you’re right I probably will stick with the GOP because even on an issue I am diametrically opposed to them on they at least stand for something. What do the dems stand for again? Even in this case it seems to be more of a case of “we like whatever the otherside doesn’t” than a logically consistent argument. Not sure even given my current state of annoyance at the GOP I would trade them for shrill, isolationist (except when one of their own is in power), socialists.
But hey maybe Dean will turn them around…ha…hahaha…hahahahhahaha
John Cole
Terry-
I am not going anywhere. And I hope I am wrong, but watching the villainization of Michael Schiavo in the past few days, I just know what this Judge is going to get…
WillyB- One more time, from the testimony of the numerous medical personnel in the transcripts I have linked to 100 times already.
The question I have, is where does Delay get his information?
Steve- This is all about playing to the base, who are a small minority, but who feel very strongly about this- and they are exceptionally religious. This is most certainly a religious issue to those pressing the issue- like Randall Terry, The NRLC, Bo Gritz, and all the Republicans last night who felt necessary to mention Schiavo and Easter in the same breath.
willyb
WillyB- One more time, from the testimony of the numerous medical personnel in the transcripts I have linked to 100 times already.
John, I doubt seriously that the transcripts of medical experts can devine the wishes of Terri Schiavo. And if your are referring to Judge Greer’s ruling, it is just that… a ruling, not a fact. Terri Schiavo has not said that she wants to be starved to death.
I don’t know where DeLay is getting his info, but I’m pretty sure that it is of the same second, third, or fourth-hand quality as yours’. I come not to praise Mr. DeLay, only to point out that your heartfelt opinion is based on conflicting evidence. You might want to consider that as you wipe the rhetorical foam from your mouth.
TM Lutas
Here’s my evidentiary two bits. My wife is a doctor who trained abroad so she comes to me to interpret the crazy americans all the time. From what I can tell, the judge appointed a guardian ad litem, a separate voice who is to speak only for Terri Schiavo’s interest in 2003. He examined her medical file, came up with a report and said, essentially, that the file says that she’s brain dead but that since there seems to be some controversy about the whole thing, it would be best if he were to have access to the actual woman and do some studies.
The judge dismissed the guardian ad litem, did not require the tests, and Terri Schiavo has not been recently tested to see whether it actually is true that she is incapable of swallowing food or water. She simply got her tube pulled and is not being given anything to eat or drink.
No, demonization, no name calling, that’s what’s going on. If you feel comfortable in ignoring the guardian ad litem, the guy the system appoints to just look after Terri Schiavo’s best interest and just her interest then please give a good reason why. I’d like to hear it.
Now emotions are running extremely high and a lot of nasty things are being said, no argument. But given the fact that the guardian ad litem wanted tests run in 2004 and those tests were not run and his guardianship was terminated by the judge to be reverted to Terri Schiavo’s husband who is against having those tests run, could we get a little past the emotion and ask whether this is fair or not.
I think it is profoundly unfair, unjust, and a stain on our national justice system what happened to the guardian ad litem recommendations. The swallow studies et al should have been done last year but they weren’t. Why? Are the “pull the plug” crowd telling you the truth?
Kimmitt
Not sure even given my current state of annoyance at the GOP I would trade them for shrill, isolationist (except when one of their own is in power), socialists.
Like I said, demonization has been pretty thorough.
John Cole
Swallow tests were done repeatedly. Check the medical record.
RW
Perhaps it’s actually the obvious: people really don’t like your ilk and vote against you (for such reasons as hijacking almost every thread for the incessant “the Republicans really are evil people and that’s why I’m not one”.
Bo.
Ring.
John, perhaps there are some of us on the right who aren’t represented: People who are sick of the whole episode & simply can’t wait for it to go away?
Aaron
Maybe DeLay plans on giving her the magic pixie dust known as stem cell research?
After all the Dems claimed that would let Christopher Reeves walk again.
You know, I wouldn’t take any medical advice from Congress – possible exception for Frist…where’s he on this matter?
Tom Maguire
Here are two stories about the guardian appointed in 2003. It appears that he was dismissed with some unanswered questions,
Mason
Speaking of the villainization of Michael Schiavo…
Terri’s *father* just indirectly but *strongly* suggested that Michael is responsible for Terri’s condition on Hannity & Colmes.
Steve Malynn
http://www.nationalreview.com/interrogatory/george200503211140.asp
Sorry about the html, but Prof George should be read.
John, you are still accepting the idea that some life is not worth living. What affirmative value is there in ending her life as opposed to continueing care?
RW
This is just one of those sad, sad, stories without any rhyme or reason. Methinks there’d be less oppo to the husband if he hadn’t moved on in such an obvious manner, so to speak, so long ago.
John Cole
John, you are still accepting the idea that some life is not worth living. What affirmative value is there in ending her life as opposed to continueing care?
At some level, I do have no problem stating that some ‘life’ is not worth living. You and I, apparently do not agree on what ‘life’ is, however.
Life, to me, is more than lying in a vegitative state with only a pulse on my side.
However, what I really accept is that Terry and Michael Schiavo are best equpped to make this judgement, and not Tom Delay, Randall Terry, and a bunch of people who have radically different concepts of what life really is.
Jimmie
And yet the judge and Michael prvented her famiyly form bringing in a priest to administer a final communion. There was something there about the possibility that she might swallow the host.
If definitive swallow tests had already been administered, what’s the big deal in trying? After all, Michael only wants her to be at peace with her Lord (or so he said on Larry Kin’s show). Would he not want her to have that final cleansing of her soul before she meets him? Or might there be some possibility that she might actually successfully swallow?
Not a question worth casual dismissal, I’d say.
Scott Chaffin
Since I’ve read a million things about what life is today, I’ll probably get this wrong, but the courts have said that life *stops* when the brain can no longer sustain breathing, heartbeat and major organ function without mechanical enhancement (in a paraphrased nutshell). Since court judgement is important to your other arguments, I think it’s a good idea to understand if you agree or disagree with that.
As I’ve read a million things today, again, I might have missed it. Where are the swallow tests documented? I have yet to see that, and I don’t believe it’s true.
John Cole
http://www.abstractappeal.com
HE has the court documents, and the swallow tests are in there. As well as in the Guardian ad litem document. She was issued three tests, the final one they determined future tests would be pointless.
One of the ‘rehabs’ that Michael cruelly denied her invloved training her to reflex swallowing using electric shocks. Of course, all that would do is insure that she either asphyxiated or caught pneumonia.
Scott Chaffin
Read the GAL report, and I accept that swallow tests were administered a decade ago. I don’t accept that that means there should be no more tests ever, but so be it.
Another therapy that Michael prohibited was putting washcloths in her hands. All that would do is keep her fingers from curling inward and causing wounds from her fingernails and from pressure. Another prohibited therapy was animal therapy, even though she liked animals enough to adopt two cats from a shelter. It’s been shown that trauma victims respond positively to animal therapy, and it’s fair to say that it should at least be tried. We can play this game for a long time to no good end, though.
Do you agree or disagree with what I have said the courts have said about “life”? I level the same accusation as yesterday — you are defining life up and down according to your whims.
I contend that it’s not your decision to make, nor is it Micheal’s, nor is it the courts. We do value life in this country, and we always have. We go to great pains to ensure that even our murderers have every protection available to them, specifically denying the viability of hearsay. Yet you are perfectly willing to accept that in this case. It’s beyond puzzling.
Ernest Brown
Scott,
Precisely, denial of the Host and Extreme Unction to a faithful Catholic is beyond evil.
If she chokes to death on the Host, what’s Schiavo’s problem? He gets rid of the “b—h” that much sooner.
If she swallows it, however, tis another story…
If the Federal judge* orders the tests done and the MRI AND the other tests come back showing brain-death to the satisfaction of the majority of the 40+ medical doctor petitioners for more testing, I’ll be glad to let them pull the plug.
Note that Cole agrees with Schiavo that this shouldn’t take place, however.
This is not a “right to die” case, this is a “don’t rush someone to death with pathetically inadequate testing” case.
*I knew that the Clinton appointee would pull something like this. He’s simply going to sit on his fundament until she dies and renders the case moot.
“Oops, so sorry. Tough manure for you, Terry’s parents.”
Sav
“what I really accept is that Terry and Michael Schiavo are best equpped to make this judgement”
John, how can you say Terry is making any argument at all is this matter? What is that based on?
I don’t like Congress getting involved here any more than you do. Nor do I like a judge deciding that Terry Schiavo wanted to have her feeding tube removed without evidence that she does. And, as I mentioned the other day, Michael is really only her husband in name only anymore. I’m not denigrating him, that’s just the reality. He moved on long ago which is fine, but he certainly isn’t more a part of her family at this point than her parents are.
Congree getting involved may end up being a bad precedent but so is a judge deciding that someone wants to die without proof.
bg
“I knew that the Clinton appointee would pull something like this.”
See! If she’s allowed to die, it’s Clinton’s fault!
Ernest Brown
“I knew that the Clinton appointee would pull something like this.”
‘See! If she’s allowed to die, it’s Clinton’s fault.’
No, it is the fault of the culture of death that you and the Clintons buy into.
Clintonian State Action=a boot smashing into a human face forever.
Ernest Brown
“John, how can you say Terry is making any argument at all is this matter? What is that based on?”
The hearsay testimony of a perjeror and oathbreaker, that’s what.
s
” Terri Schiavo’s desires and the desires of her husband don’t matter. ”
So now you’re a psychic?
His desire is known.
Hers is not.
Paul B.
bg: Stopped reading Ace o Spades and a few others after they advocated flooding the Pinellas Park Hospice that Terri was in with food and water, like they don’t have enough crap to put up with there. And sure enough thanks to the self anointed deciders of good and evil I read in the local section of my St. Pete Times this morning that a woman couldn’t make it through the new security checks to see her grandfather one last time when she got the call. None of the other 71 residents can even go outside now thanks to the bozos and the food thing is just remote harassment. My wife has had two family members pass there, one fairly recently. Harassing the hospice because of a decision you don’t agree with is about the most insensitive thing I can possible think of. But alas when you’re “right” who cares about other people that get in your way?
bg
“No, it is the fault of the culture of death that you and the Clintons blah blah blah blah blah”
You’re full of shit and you know it. You said what you did because you want to do a little reach around. Ever gotten a reach around? Kind of like ’em myself.
worn
willyb: “Where did you get the “fact” that Terri Schiavo wants to be starved to death?”
She doesn’t “want” anything, willyb (if you are using the word in the present tense, that is). Her cerebral cortex is almost completely gone. The operative question seems to be “What would she have wanted?”
But honestly, is your argument that ANY BODY that is capable of being kept alive via mechanical means should be forced to be? After all, if it merely “life” we are supremely valuing, why take into consideration, for instance, a living will in which one might state that in a similar situation they would wish the tube pulled? Could be considered aking to assisted suicide, eh?
I mean, what is the PRINCIPLE you are advocating here? Can you state it succintly?
Anonymous Coward
Well, it certainly seems that conservative blogs attract more idiots than liberal ones. So much “knowledge of the facts of this case” from folks who’ve had so little to do with it over the years. It’s truly incredible that so many people here think they can understand more about this case from the unreliable information on the web than professionals who’ve been involved for many years. Probably less surprising that you all get so exercised about a white woman’s situation but care nothing for a black child being taken off life support against his mother’s wishes (but not against W’s). I guess you left off a word: you’re really in favor of “a culture of [white] life”.