This is so patently offensive that I don’t have adequate words to describe how truly wrong this is:
As the Senate heads toward a showdown over the rules governing judicial confirmations, Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader, has agreed to join a handful of prominent Christian conservatives in a telecast portraying Democrats as “against people of faith” for blocking President Bush’s nominees.
Fliers for the telecast, organized by the Family Research Council and scheduled to originate at a Kentucky megachurch the evening of April 24, call the day “Justice Sunday” and depict a young man holding a Bible in one hand and a gavel in the other. The flier does not name participants, but under the heading “the filibuster against people of faith,” it reads: “The filibuster was once abused to protect racial bias, and it is now being used against people of faith.”
If you don’t share our politics, you hate the baby Jesus.
If you don’t share our politics, you hate religious people.
If you don’t share our politics, you are evil.
Congrats, Republicans. Our leaders have now taken the traditional rhetorical demonization of our opposition and elevated it to heavenly heights. I assume my friends on the right are going to spend the week-end attacking me for being a ‘religious bigot’ because I rightly point out the inappropriateness of this behavior. The usual suspects are front and center:
Some of the nation’s most influential evangelical Protestants are participating in the teleconference in Louisville, including Dr. James C. Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family; Chuck Colson, the born-again Watergate figure and founder of Prison Fellowship Ministries; and Dr. Al Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.
But why are you reading me? I hate religious people because I respect the role of religion in people’s lives, but don’t want religious texts or leaders dictating our domestic and foreign policy. And I really don’t want them using God and religion as a weapon for petty partisan gain.
*** Update ***
I read this three times to make sure I wasn’t missing a self-parody or an inside joke. I wasn’t:
Is it the position of Frist’s critics that it is illegitimate for the Majority Leader to give a speech to mainstream Christians? If so, then that is about as radical a tactic as we have seen in a long time –urging elected officials not to even speak to gatherings of the 40% of the country that attends church weekly. This is another outbreak of “religousrightitis”, one that underscores the ongoing effort to delegitimize the right of people to vote their values if those values are based on a religious worldview, and it makes a mockery of the idea that Dems want to appeal to “values voters” when they are encouraging the equivalent of “shunning” by electeds.
Hugh Hewitt, at his best.
A.) He can talk to them all he wants. What frightens me is that you consider them mainstream Christians and that Frist agrees with their radical viewpoint that Democrats are voting the way they are because of anti-religious views.
B.) They can vote their values all they want. I vote mine. I just don’t demand that their values be given the weight of law.
C.) How can they appeal to value voters? By your standards, there are none, because if you vote Democrat, you hate religion.
over it
John, why do you hate the Baby Jesus?
;)
Democrat
Ahem, aren’t you being something of a “Johnnie come lately” here (pardon the pun)? You (yes, you personally) voted for these people. They have power thanks to your voting for Bush (“Christ–he changed mah heart”). And, frankly, I hope they totally take over your party. It would be a fitting comeuppance for all these decades of playing footsie with the christianofascists.
Quiddity
I share your concern. I couldn’t believe the report, but it’s true, a blatant charge that Democrats are anti-Christian. And the Senate Majority Leader as part of it.
When will other people of faith speak up to condemn this linkage of religion with procedural rules of Congress?
Nash
“Ahem, aren’t you being something of a “Johnnie come lately” here (pardon the pun)? You (yes, you personally) voted for these people.”
Can you explain to me how attacking Mr. Cole for his comments does any good here, Democrat? (Other than make you feel smug, that is.)
Why is one person’s search for perspective such a target for your vitriol?
I’m a White Sox fan, but if, say, Ozzie Guillen told me directly to “f-off”, I wouldn’t remain a White Sox fan for long.
chloeindia
This is no laughing matter – it is the “fundamental” problem with the Republican party. Look at the history, people. Richard Viguerie of the radical right began an assault on the Republican Party 25 years ago. He took a look at the two parties and decided that the Republicans would be the easiest to take over. The GOP has been the victim of a concerted effort to take it so far to the right it is now in danger of falling off the edge of the earth (which, if we keep listening to these people we will soon be believing is flat).
The traditional Republican party was the party that gave us the minimum wage and some of the best, most well-balanced environmental legislation we have ever had. It was the party that truly believed in states rights – solving problems as close to thier sources as possible. The current Republican party is driving us into the dark ages with its abhorence of science and its “beleive as I believe or you are the devil incarnate” attitude, while attempting to legislate ever more aspects of our personal lives. Reasonable Republicans must either stand up and boot these body snatchers out (and this means getting involved at the local level, rasing money, and fielding moderate candidates) or they must unite with Democrats to create a moderate majority.
I may sound like I am fear mongering, but with the radical right in control of so much of the media (please note the various studies that have shown that people who get their information from Fox news believe more things that have been proven to be false than do people who get their information from NPR), I believe we are in danger of a one-party rule that will push us ever closer to a theocracy. That does not bode well for democracy.
Meanwhile, the corporate interests are busy stealing everything that isn’t nailed down. I can’t wait for the new bankruptcy bill to take effect. Guess where the greatest number of bankruptcies take place – that’s right, the red states. Maybe as these people find themselves destitute thanks to their beloved GOP, they will open their eyes and see that they are sheep following the GOP to slaughter.
Compuglobalhypermeganet
+++(please note the various studies that have shown that people who get their information from Fox news believe more things that have been proven to be false than do people who get their information from NPR),+++
Come on, you could prove any agenda with a “study” like that. I’d wager that 95% of NPR listeners believe the falacy that Bush inherited a robust economy with a surplus and ruined it in a year.
Compuglobalhypermeganet
But seriously, the religio-phobia here is ruining what was once a good read. It’s leading to ridiculous demagoguing like “I sided with the medical community, the courts [as if that were a PLUS?], and TErri and Micahel Schiavo, and not Sean Hannity, Randall Terry, and Tom Delay” while not mentioning that you are also siding with Teddy Kennedy, Barney Frank, et. al., and against Terri’s parents. I mean, that fourth-grade “I’m with the smart people and you’re with the stupid people” is the hallmark of post-2004 liberal rhetoric. I’m stunned to find it here.
It’s also leading to a gross stretching of Frist’s remarks into something which they are clearly not. I am assured that some of it must be playful hyperbole, but that’s not how it comes off — it comes of as a Kos rip-off.
Anyway, hopefully issues will arise that can get us away from the religious intolerance of both sides — it was more fun when Berger was stuffing top secret documents into his underoos.
over it
%95 of NPR listeners may well believe that Compu’net….chloeindia never said they didn’t.
Chloeindia did not say that people who got their info from NPR did not believe in things that had been proven false. What chloe DID say was that those that get their info from FOX believe in MORE falsehoods.
Unfortunately, none of the media options provide the whole truth and nothing but. I for one, however, would prefer to get my info that provided MORE of the truth….not less.
FOX, like it or not, when compared to NPR by non-partisan factcheckers….comes up short.
Watch FOX for it’s entertainment value(afterall…it’s talking heads ARE talented and entertaining)..but do not rely upon it as your sole source of ‘news’.
mds
But seriously, the religio-phobia here is ruining what was once a good read.
I think that many traditional conservatives share some of John Cole’s (and chloeindia’s) concerns. I was raised in a religious household, and hold religious values. But I don’t think federal judges should be selected by religious test, and neither did the authors of the Constitution. The federal government has demonstrated yet again that it can just as easily trample all over states’ rights under Republican control as it can under Democratic control, at the behest of a vocal minority with a particular religious agenda. The Republican party does not need to be returned to the hands of the “religio-phobic” people; it needs to be returned to the hands of the sane people, whether religious or not. And what if, all evidence to the contrary, true Christians are being horribly persecuted in this country? I say, read the Epistles of Paul again (or more likely, for the first time), and suck it up.
John Cole
“But seriously, the religio-phobia here is ruining what was once a good read. It’s leading to ridiculous demagoguing like “I sided with the medical community, the courts [as if that were a PLUS?], and TErri and Micahel Schiavo, and not Sean Hannity, Randall Terry, and Tom Delay” while not mentioning that you are also siding with Teddy Kennedy, Barney Frank, et. al., and against Terri’s parents. I mean, that fourth-grade “I’m with the smart people and you’re with the stupid people” is the hallmark of post-2004 liberal rhetoric.”
If that is how you are going to phrase it, who am I to disagree?
People who willfully misinterpret the law, attack a conservative judiciary for not ruling their way, make medical diagnoses from the well of the Senate, completely distort the medical facts, attack the husband and appointed guardian, incite trouble with inflammatory rhetoric, and, in this case, coach ‘WITNESSES,’ are STUPID.
chloeindia
If Christians are being persecuted, at least some of the “blame” for it must reside with the radical evangelical right. I was rasied a Christian, never felt persecuted, and yet find myself recoiling at the actions of “Christians” who bomb clinics, demand that Congress interfere in a familiy’s choices about dying loved ones, and want to impose a religous test on judges.
The Jesus I was raised with did not close the door to anyone. He also preached that we have a responsibilty to care for the most vulnerable members of our society. His “culture of life” focused on the sick and the poor among us now. I also do not think he ever believed that the ends justified the means – being against abortion does not justify bombing clinics. I would love to be a fly on the wall when some of the “righteous” among us answer to God for their actions on this earth. I suspect more than a few of them will find out that they were led astray. Satan works in wonderfully clever ways. He often gets us to betray our values just as we are screaming the loudest about them.
Jorge
To quote the poster
“End the fillibuster on Religious people”
I am so angry. As a born again Christian, I can’t get over how angry I am at folks like Frist and Santorum. The have taken my faith and turned it into an elitist, ignorant thing. I think of Jesus’ Christianity, a religion for the poor, the outcasts, the people out of government and out of influence. Heck, the early Christians were below the Jews in the Roman hierachy. How much less power over the secular and earthly could you possibly have?
chloeindia
**I am so angry. As a born again Christian, I can’t get over how angry I am at folks like Frist and Santorum. The have taken my faith and turned it into an elitist, ignorant thing.**
How is it that we can feel such fear and loathing at the thought of Iraq becoming an Islamic theocracy ala Iran and yet not see that there is a very vociferous group of Americans striving to make us into a Christian theocracy? You may be able to convice yourself that a government based on “Christian values” is a good thing, but it isn’t a very big step from there to a place where there is only one set of those values that is allowed. If the history of Christianity in America has demonstrated one thing, it is that we want diversity in how we practice our faith. I wish more Christians were as aware and upset as Jorge.
Pudentilla
the republican party you remember has been dead so long the corpse doesn’t even stink anymore. the republican party you presently belong to stands now for christian triumphalism, fiscal insanity, and god help us, “go it alone international intervention.” the daddy party on an acid trip.
jerry
Your taxpayer dollars and your fundraising dollars at work.
Face it John, you are an enabler.
chloeindia
Just to tie my comments about Christianity back to my first post, I sincerely doubt that the Jesus who threw the money changers out of the temple would have supported the bankruptcy bill the illustrious GOP passed yesterday.
chloeindia
**the republican party you remember has been dead so long the corpse doesn’t even stink anymore.**
I agree, and I chose to leave the GOP last year. I am not sure that was the right decision. It might have been better for me to stay and to try to interject a voice of moderation and reason into the GOP, however, at the time I left, I did not see how that would be possible. With the gross overreaching we have seen from the GOP lately, more middle-of-the-roaders like me may have the guts to stand up and try to move the party back to its very respectable roots.
Unfortunately,I don’t think there will be an incentive to reform until the GOP loses big time so for now I am focusing on that defeat. The best way I have found to do that is to work to elect Democratic candidates. Moderate Republicans may discover that this is the only way to get the attention of the party leadership.
mds
Your taxpayer dollars and your fundraising dollars at work.
Face it John, you are an enabler.
Well, the way this administration and Congressional majority wants to fling money at specific religious groups (especially the Moonies), we’re all enablers when it comes to taxpayer dollars. And yes, Mr. Cole still supported the Republican party, even though it should have been obvious what it has turned into. But this degree of payback to the American Taliban is a new development. President Reagan was a master at co-opting religious talk, but actually provided very little to the religious extremists. So I think Mr. Cole should be cut a little slack. I didn’t start voting consistently against the Republican party until November 2000. These things take time. :-)
Randolph Fritz
The majority of the USA doesn’t agree with this, and is likely to vote their opinions 2006, so it may cost the Republicans the House in 2006 and perhaps a few Senate seats as well. I do hope we keep the filibuster; without it, whenever House, Senate, and Presidency are in the control of the same party, the USA is a single-party state.
elmysterio
As a Christian, I’m disgusted at this blatent misuse of religion. This just shows how low the GOP will stoop to “get their way”. Unfortunatly, a great number of my Christian brothers and sisters buy into the venomous rhetoric spewed by the likes of Dobson and Colson. it’s a shame really. The Dems are not blocking some nominees because they hate “religous people”… it’s because the judiciary has great power, lifelong power and putting an ideologue on the bench, either from the right or from the left is just plain wrong. Nominations need to be considered carefully. The judges are there to enforce the laws, not rule based on their own value system. Responsible, impartial people should be on the bench… not extremists! Shame on Sen Frist for using religion to further his own agenda… Also, a great number of “lefties” don’t have a problem with God… just the rabid “Christian Right”… I love God, but mourn because so many of the Evangical Christians have lost their way.
electricgrendel
Could someone please address the fact that all of the powers of each branch are checked by the other branches? The Senate was never meant to just rubberstamp the President’s nominees. If the Founders had intended it, then the President would just appoint the judges without any review process. To say that the founding fathers could not have written that were that their intention is absolute nonsense.
The question that Republicans need to ask themselves is how they would feel if the filibuster had been eliminated during Clinton’s time in office when Democrats controlled by houses. If you can honestly say that even a Democratic President should have no Senate opposition to his of her judicial nominations, then you are either lying or far too indoctrinated.
However, it is nice to see that there are secularist Republicans left. Now if only the media would recognize the religious Democrats. Hrm.
Rick
The Senate was never meant to just rubberstamp the President’s nominees…If you can honestly say that even a Democratic President should have no Senate opposition to his of her judicial nominations, then you are either lying or far too indoctrinated.
Well, do you have a problem with committee-vetted/passed nominees getting a floor vote, like all of Clintons nominees that emerged from committee? Shoot, like every other comparable nominee in history, save for the semantic issues regarding Abe Fortas’ proposed promotion and the preliminary, four-day “filibuster.”
Should 41 ‘pubbie Senators have filibustered to stop Ruth Ginsburg (advocate of applying foreign law to Constitutional questions). Now you tell us?!
Cordially…
Blogsy McBlog
John, come now. Are you arguing that you couldn’t tell this was happening during the 2004 campaign? The Republicans ran on a vigorous agenda of gay-bashing, values-thumping, and patriotic vitriol. It is disingenuous for you to poo-poo them after you put them in power, unless you assumed that “it wouldn’t be this way.” Well, that assumption would be pretty implausible.
electricgrendel
“Well, do you have a problem with committee-vetted/passed nominees getting a floor vote, like all of Clintons nominees that emerged from committee?” -Rick
Actually- it’s funny you should mention this. When the Republicans controlled the Judicial Committee the last five years of Clinton’s Presidency, the REpublicans did not have to filibuster. They just didn’t let the nominees come up for a floor vote. How is that any better than a filibuster?
Perhaps if we get rid of the rights of the minority to protest the egregious flexing of ideology, then we should remove the power of the majority to stand between the sitting President and his ideology. Of course, fairness is not a part of the judicial filibuster debate. It has nothing to do with honoring the intent of the Constitution for the will of the majority to never be able to crush the respective minorities.
It does, however, have everything to do with short Red memories. From the mewlings of DeLay (lead actor in the Clinton smear) to the retooling of the Constitution, Republicans are proving themselves poor students of history.
mds
Well, do you have a problem with committee-vetted/passed nominees getting a floor vote, like all of Clintons nominees that emerged from committee?
The precision of this statement is impressive, the key phrase being, “that emerged from committee”. Googling “blue slip” as regards the Senate Judiciary committee makes for useful reading. Sixty-four of President Clinton’s nominees were blocked from even receiving consideration by the Judiciary Committee. With the traditional “blue slip” method no longer available to them, Democrats retain only the filibuster to block nominees. Which leads to the obvious conclusion that 41 senators opposing a nomination thwarts democracy, but one single senator with a blue slip blocking a nomination during the Clinton administration was power to the people. Were all of Mr. Clinton’s nominees qualified? Certainly not. Senators had, and have, a traditional right to block nominees, albeit currently in a much more limited way. So don’t pretend that the blocking of nominees is an “unprecedented” action. Things don’t always go the executive branch’s way, and that’s actually a feature, not a bug.
mds
Whoops, what electricgrendel said. I obviously should have refreshed the view when my internet connection came back. :-)
JG
I was a republican who voted for Kerry 6 months ago. Now I’m no loner a republican. I’m leaving the party for the same reason I gave up on organized religion. I’m tired of being yelled at when I don’t drawn the preferred conclusion from a situation. I was called a liberal by people who knew me better than that when I stopped buying everything this administration said or did. Now I see it happening to JC. I’ve seen this place referred to as a left wing blog on FreeRepublic.com. I can’t align myself with a group of people who refuse to divorce themselves from what they believe to be right long enough to actually look at an issue. Maybe I’ll start a new party, the Griffinists. We can even have a cool half eagle half lion symbol rather than a jackass or an elephant. Who’s with me?
Chumley
The “religious right” has become a cult of constant victimization, despite its unprecedented power. Any religion or spiritual movement or ANY kind of group of people who weilds the kind of power this group does, but STILL cries victim, is morally bankrupt.
I think “Christianity” is too kind a label for the current religious right-wing in this country. Sure, they throw the name “Jesus” around like it’s their favorite brand of soft drink, but ignore just about EVERYTHING he says in the New Testament. They have completely perverted the most moral teachings the world has ever been given, making Jesus a mouthpiece for their greed and power machinations, and then they whine about being persecuted when true people of faith and good will object.
They are committing a terrible sin: using God cynically, in service of their own earthly power. The Lord is not a hand puppet to be popped out whenever you want to score a rhetoric point against your political opponent. Jesus saved some of his biggest contempt for the religious and political leaders of his time, for doing the exact same thing.
Shame on them all. They really are defiling the name of Jesus Christ.
Christie S.
JG, if your party is for moderation and control, send me a sign up sheet. I’m tired of the bs from the extremes of both parties.
ppgaz
It’s okay for a congressional leader to talk to a “Christian” group.
what is not okay is for that to happen in the clearly understood context that that leader is there to pander to the group, or suggest that his role is to represent *their* agenda and ignore the majority of Americans who do not share it.
Frist can talk to them all he wants, for my money. But he thinks he is now talking *for* them. That, I can’t tolerate.
Christie S.
The Lord is not a hand puppet to be popped out whenever you want to score a rhetoric point against your political opponent>
What a great quote. May I borrow it, permanently? I’d say steal, but the situation is a bit to serious for that.
Shoeless Joe Stalin
Your all going to hell. I never believed in Hell so it’s not very cold here, but I’m in my summer dacha.
chloeindia
Great post, Churnley, you hit the nail right on the head. The scary thing is they have a great PR machine in the right-wing media to ensure that their simultaneous victimization and self-rightousness are heard round the world.
CaseyL
Seeing non-crazy Republicans realize what’s happening to their Party is good, but I think it’s pretty much limited to the blogosphere – simply because the more alarming issues and events are only being covered in detail by blogs. And for every JC, Moderate Voice, etc., there’s still Tacitus and Redstate still nodding and applauding.
What they don’t get, and what most Americans don’t get, are the long-term, real world, consequences of the Religious Right’s crusade to turn the US into an authoritarian theocracy.
One: brain drain. Once our science curricula is neutered and our non-science curricula has to pass political/religious tests, the best minds will go elsewhere for education. Where will the next breakthroughs in medicine and alt.energy technologies come from? Not here, that’s for damn sure.
Two: economic stagnation, following from the loss of innovation noted above. (It also ties in to Bush’s and the GOP’s crazy economic policies, which seem to think our creditors will not treat us the way we’re now going to be treating our own debt-ridden citizens.)
Three: national security and defense. These are supposed to be the GOP’s strongest of strong suits. Even people who disagreed with everything else Bush said or did voted for him because he “made them feel safe.”
But, when you take Bush’s ruinous military policies and his bad-joke idea of diplomacy, and add to them a superpower governed by and for fundamentalist nutjobs, you cannot possibly make good, competent, or even sane national security and military decisions.
Delbert_G
Hell, even Clinton chose Supreme Court nominees off of a list of acceptable ‘liberals’ created by Orrin Hatch and other republicans. Why can’t Bush just pick moderate-conservatives for the court. Half of the American people voted against him; I think he owes them at least that.
Michael Spaulding
My wife thinks I’m nuts to be so “overly excited” about this pending threat to our privacy and freedoms-of religious expression and intellectual inquiry specifically-posed by those who espouse what they refer to as a “Christian Nation.”
The term alone is a disconnect for any other people of faith who currently are free to follow the dictates of their hearts. What is going to happen to the Hindus, Jews, Muslims and Buddhists in this country? Where will the foundations of this country go?
Here is a recent quote from D. James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries
“Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost,” Kennedy says. “As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors — in short, over every aspect and institution of human society.”
Whatever the cost? Vice regents of God? Godly dominion? Pious exhibitionism and dangerous hubris is more like it. Does anyone remember Afganistan and the Taliban? Probably not.
In “The True Believer” published in 1951, Eric Hoffer notes that those who initiate programs of vast change:
“. . . must have the feeling that by the possession of some potent doctrine, infallible leader or some new technique they have access to a source of irresistible power. They must have an extravagant conception of the prospects and potentialities of the future. Finally, they must be totally ignorant of the difficulties involved in their vast undertaking. Experience is a handicap.”
If these people gain the power -for, despite their mouthings, that is the key here, power and money-then the tyranny of orthodoxy will usher in a new inquisition.
It is not difficult to extrapolate the consequences. After the books are burned and the dangerous rebels are locked up or dead what will become of the pious then? They will turn on one another. It’s happened before. Such tigers often eat their own young.
I’ll tell you though, dear reader-just between us-I hope to God my wife is right, just this once!
Shoeless Joe Stalin
Good call. Hoffer, the longshoreman/philosopher. A true libertarian as well. Pay close attention to that word, “dominion” because it holds more significance for them than it does to you.
Scott Games
Oh, my God (pardon the pun), you people really do still exist!! I say bravo for your honesty and attention to truth. You know, there was a time when I considered becoming a Republican, because the Republican Party was the one people could count on to support the liberties and freedoms of the individual. Then W. showed up, and that whole notion has evaporated. Good luck to you all. Here is to hoping that the direction of your party heads to where it once was, not to where I fear it is headed.
Ice Station Zebra
John — I say this with absolutely no irony: you are a true patriot. Would that there were more like you, more who spoke their consciences rather than kow-towing to their party “leaders.” Kudos.
True Believer
The interesting thing is Christianity is under attack in America…
it’s under attack by Frist and his religious goons.
Still, you guys crack me up. acting all shocked tat the Republican party is so vile. :-)
The Babaganoosh
As a “secular” rightist, it irritates me to see the GOP head in this direction, but I just have to remind myself that the other choice is always worse. I’m hoping that the next GOP administration continues with W’s foreign policy and tax cuts, but leaves the “Religious Right” to come up with their own candidate.
Kimmitt
I just have to remind myself that the other choice is always worse.
That’s okay, ever since we contracted with Nyarlothep, we actually feed off of your hatred, which significantly decreases our grocery bills. Better than Pell Grants.
Roy Mitchell
Nice post, John. I like a conservative who loves his country and its freedoms more than he wants to push his idea of religion on his countrymen.
Sadly, the Babaganoosh hasn’t gotten the memo – the religious right folks don’t like him either. Trust me, I grew up with these folks – you’re going to hell as well, and as soon as they get rid of us pesky liberals, they’re coming after you secular righties.
I think you’d do a lot better with some folks who might get more of your money in taxes than with the folks who want you baptized in the blood of the Lamb and will stop at nothing to involve themselves in your most personal decisions.
But that’s just one Texan’s opinion.
Hannah
Hey, it’s great to read comments by “real” Republicans (Babaganoosh excepted), not the theocrats that have taken over the party (for more information see http://www.theocracywatch.org). As a liberal Christian it pains me to see what these people have done to Jesus, to Christianity.
Anyhow, I wish you the best of luck in taking back your party. With any luck, the far right will sail off the edge of their lunacy and you all can pick up the pieces and get the party back on track.
And thank you to John for letting us post here.
JG
‘Seeing non-crazy Republicans realize what’s happening to their Party is good, but I think it’s pretty much limited to the blogosphere – simply because the more alarming issues and events are only being covered in detail by blogs.’
I think its limited to the blogosphere because most ‘average americans’ don’t read. They get they’re news from FAUX news or radio talking heads. Neither of which gives more than their perspective on issues and are always designed to influence not inform. Its an educational issue. Almost all of the people I know who support Bushs SS plan do so under a complete misunderstanding of how SS works. FAUX and Limbaugh do nothing to correct that misunderstanding, they actually exploit it. I would bet most republicans are the kids in class who said over and over ‘why do I need to know this? I’ll never have to use this knowledge. You’re wasting my time, I’ll be working for the city like my dad.” Try explaining what a snow job Bush is giving when he says US Treasury Bonds are worthless IOUs to someone who barely remembers a second of high school econ 101. Or a high school dropout who hates liberals because his dad sat around yelling at the tv blaming everything on liberals, and who reacts violently when shown how wrong he is. We’re screwed.
The Babaganoosh
See, I really think you’re overstating the threat here. The “Religious Right” is destined to sail off a cliff political-wise, just as the Howard Dean/George-Soros left is. I’d like to see both of those elements gone from the major political parties. However, I see the Republicans having an easier time handling the religious (once W is out of office, of course) than I do the Democrats dealing with their secular zealots who want to make sure no one is allowed to have religion at ALL in public. I know a small government party is impossible in today’s pork-barrell loving word, but I feel better knowing the country is in the hands of the Republicans than in the hands of the Democrats.
And to the commenter who said that “the religious right folks don’t like him either. Trust me, I grew up with these folks – you’re going to hell as well” – Reagan and Bush 41 (and moderate Nixon) got into office without too much help from the religious right, and I’m sure that the GOP can do it again. Just like the Democrats outlasted the Whigs, the Republicans can certainly outlast the “I’ll impose my morals on YOU” division.
And really, the way the two of you responded to me does NOT want to make me jump into the Democratic Party’s arms, as I’m sure you’re well aware.
Shoeless Joe Stalin
We’ll all love to watch you go sailing off the cliff with them, comrade Babaganoosh. Have a nice flight.
Shoeless Joe Stalin
Oh yeah, Comrade Babaganoosh, I feel your pain.
Shoeless Joe Stalin
LMAO! Check out Babaganoosh’s Blogroll on his piddley little Blog. Nothing but righty Blogs. But wait… what’s this? Jesus General! What’s that commie blog doing there? Babaganoosh never got the memo! Babaganoosh must have missed all the meetings. No satire or parody genes in that illustrious bloodline! People that out of touch are your problem. It ain’t liberals. That includes far too many people on the right.
Shoeless Joe Stalin
“And to the commenter who said that “the religious right folks don’t like him either. Trust me, I grew up with these folks – you’re going to hell as well” – Reagan and Bush 41 (and moderate Nixon) got into office without too much help from the religious right, and I’m sure that the GOP can do it again. Just like the Democrats outlasted the Whigs, the Republicans can certainly outlast the “I’ll impose my morals on YOU” division.
And really, the way the two of you responded to me does NOT want to make me jump into the Democratic Party’s arms, as I’m sure you’re well aware.”
Figures, coming from a young kid who is barely out of high school and knows nothing about history except what he reads in textbooks or learned in his obviously close minded home environment. People in the Soviet Union during the Cold War weren’t as brain washed as twirps like you are today in the Post 9-11 USA. Without Nixon’s 1969 Silent Majority, then the Moral Majority, there wouldn’t be the American Talibanazis of today. Code words for the same thing, though they were never a majority in this country. You’ve been played by different incarnations of the same wolf in sheep’s clothing. It’s time for an unfortunate intrusion by reality, Slick, and frankly, we don’t want you. You aren’t ready and we need something to point at and say: “See? This is what we don’t want to be like. This is not what we stand for.” You are the poster child for what is wrong with the right today. Young, dumb and full of cum, but not on the front lines fighting for what you espouse. It certainly isn’t the religious wingnuts. America is a liberal contry. Love it or leave it. You are that poster boy. Because we on the left can’t just say we are against Talibanazis wherever they are, can we Capt. Obvious? No, we need mainstream morons like your idol Glenn Reynolds and the list goes on… to point to and say: “This is the enemy. These are the America Haters.” because that’s what you really are. Then Americans can really see the difference between us and them. And by them, I mean you. Fringe groups just won’t cut it. But in time, you and your ilk we be a fringe group too.
Sherman
Good luck to all of you that are still sane and remain in the Republican party. Unfortunately I think it is too late to take back the GOP, but at least you guys are starting to wake up to the fact that the Religious Right doesn’t want to govern, they want to rule.
B Patterson
John,you know all the Repubicans are doing is anchoring their message to an already held value. They did the same thing years ago with “Family Values.” Oppose our platform and you oppose American families. The democrats did the same thing when they tried to anchor their policies on gun control to “Child Safety.” If you oppose gun control, you’re against the safety of children. In the present case, the bulk of the country is Christian and these are deeply held beliefs that incidentally carry with them the idea that questioning religious dogma will result in eternal damnation. The mental trap is such that if you oppose the “Culture of Life,” and its accompanying legislation, you de facto reject the achored issue, Christian values. The truth of the matter is that one can be devoutly Christian AND oppose the intrusion of religious dogma into government.
Helena Montana
I am a Democrat, but my son, whom I love very much, is a an active and professional Republican. I know that over the past year or so he has become very disturbed by some of the antics of the religious right.
I think it is beginning to dawn on him that his brand of conservatism and theirs doesn’t have a lot in common. I don’t think he has realized yet that if his brand of conservatism is to survive, he and other traditional conservatives will have to begin to fight to take their party back.
Because of his particular position, this will be a very uncomfortable and inconvenient awareness, but I believe it is coming. Whether it will come in time is another matter engirely.
Nelson Muntz
Ha Ha.
CM
[If Christians are being persecuted, at least some of the “blame” for it must reside with the radical evangelical right.]
It is always amusing to hear the religious reich complain about being persecuted and, in the same breath, crow about how they’re the nation’s “moral majority” and that their values rule the roost?
Which is it? You’re either the persecuted minority or the accepted majority.
You can’t have ot both ways but it sure does help keep those pledge’s coming in and those collection plates overflowing, now doesn’t it?
serena
What a relief it is to read civil, intelligent discourse about what is happening in this country. It is encouraging to know that people are beginning to awaken to the “realities” of what befalls this nation.
I wonder if the republicans pandering to the religious fundamentalists are knowingly compromising their principles or whether they had any in the first place. Take as an example: Frist because he is considering running for president in 2008 plays to the far right fundamentalists to gain their favour and support and their vote. As a doctor, he has said and/or has agreed with some outlandish claims. During an interview on TV he was ‘forced’ per se to deny HIV is transferred thru tears and sweat. The disconnect from his oath as a doctor and politics is stunning. The problem, he is only one of the many that know better yet fail to correct or deny the extreme distortions, mistruths and lies perpetuated by the religious far-right wing of this nation. Just how far are they willing to go for a vote!
It is apparent that those willing to compromise their values will just as easily compromise our nation. Maybe it is time to vote them all out of office –dems and republicans alike– and start anew.
Bill
I think you will be shunned by your peers, then excommunicated, then threatened, I think it a trademark of of religious bigotry to eventually turn on each other.
spacemonkey
Silly liberals.
von
This article is linked (with approval) at Obsidian Wings, John. (Sorry, your trackback feature doesn’t seem to be working.)
KJ
If there is one thing this thread lacks, it is perspective. The Judges are being judged by their religious values. Pryor was denied a vote (he is currently sitting as a recess appointment) because he is personally a conservative Catholic. He thinks abortion is wrong. Yet, he says can be a judge, just as he was a lawyer, and enforce laws with which he disagrees. And he has proven it. As attorney general of Alabama, he had to take on Judge Moore’s personal PR campaigne and he won. As an 11th Circuit Judge, he has been mainstream. But he is a conservative Catholic – he doesn’t even deserve a vote. There is no other evidence against him. The left is a political bigot against people of faith. It is a fact. The religious right can be stupid, too. That is a fact. But we are so far from the religious theocracy you chicken little’s are crying about that you wouldn’t know a decadent, primarily areligious society if you saw one, which you do every single day.
Dave Munger
If you say one thing, you mean something comepletely different.
Can anything with a head on it believe that the Democrats aren’t up to exactly what they’re said to be up to? Is Bork a Conservative, or just really religious? Can you percieve ANY relationship at all between Natural Law theory, constructionism, historic conservatism, and traditional western religiousity? What DO you think happend to Bork?
Doesen’t it turn you stomach to be called “civil and intelligent”? That’s what Presbyterian bittys say about NPR. It is not a very accurate description of gross misrepresentation (If you don’t share our politics…), either.