This is a bad precedent:
The Florida Supreme Court said Thursday it will not consider an appeal from conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh over prosecutors’ seizure of his medical records during an investigation into whether he illegally purchased painkillers.
The 4-3 order did not explain the court’s reasoning.
Limbaugh’s attorney had argued that an appeals court misconstrued Florida law when it ruled prosecutors could review the records.
Prosecutors seized Limbaugh’s medical records in 2003 for an investigation into whether he illegally purchased prescription painkillers, but they have remain sealed, pending the outcome of Limbaugh’s appeals. Investigators allege that Limbaugh “doctor shopped,” illegally visiting multiple doctors to receive duplicate prescriptions.
Limbaugh, who has not been charged with any crime, lost at the appellate court level and wanted the Florida Supreme Court to overturn a ruling that would open his medical records and possibly allow prosecutors to build a case against him.
It is abundantly clear that this is a politically motivated prosecution, and now, thanks to some Democrats in Florida, your medical records are less private than they used to be. Are we now to the point that you are going to have to make arrangements with your physicians to keep your medical records at home?
And because I know it will happen, someone with a bee in their bonnet is going to try to argue with me that this isn’t politically motivated. Save yourself the time, it is, and the good liberals at Talk Left have been honest enough to cover this issue fully.
Kudos to the Talking Dog.
Kimmitt
It is abundantly clear that this is a politically motivated prosecution,
Again, Limbaugh allegedly committed multiple felonies, including allegedly forcing his maid to act as a drug mule. I agree that most rich white guys would get a slap on the wrist, but come fricking on.
dagon
‘politically motivated’?
john-
please be so kind as to point out the liberals in florida who have the juice to get the florida juiciary to gring their axes against limbaugh for them.
weren’t you just talking about how, contrary to the opinions of the lunatic fringe of the right re the schiavo case, that many in the florida judiciary have CONSERVATIVE backgrounds?
you can debate the prudence of allowing prosecution access to his records all you want, but to suggest that it’s politically motivated by some supposed left-wing power brokers, particularly with the political climate that exists in florida is a stretch.
i know you’re desperate to reestablish some of the ‘street-cred’ that you lost with the foaming republican faithful of late, but please, don’t start carrying water for limbaugh in this manner.
peace
Steven
The prosecuting attorney in Palm Beach County (who started the investigation) is a Democrat. My guess is he went after a high profile (what to call Limbaugh? fill in the blank yourself) to score political points of his own. I seriously doubt this case would have been brought or pursued so vigorously if a 72 year old Jewish grandfather had been the purchaser of the drugs.
norbizness
The irony, of course, is that Jeb Bush’s Office of the Attorney General would have had to argue for the constitutionality of the search warrant before the 4th District Court of Appeals and the State Supreme Court, and won both times. I assume John’s initial comment dealt with the people in the Palm Beach prosecutor’s office and not the judges, but you can never be too careful.
BTW, I side with Limbaugh’s legal position (you need a subpoena and not a search warrant for sensitive medical records), which was also supported by doctors’ associations, Talk Left, and the ACLU. I don’t like seeing bad, 4th Amendment-shredding precedent set, even if it is to the detriment of a bloviating, hypocritical piece of shit.
dagon
steven,
i thought we were talking about the precedent being set by the judiciary.
in this scenario, the motives of the prosecutor who started the proceedings aren’t really relevant now are they?
i have no problem believing the prosecuting attorney in pb county might have had a jones for limbaugh but what we’re talking about now is the seizure of his medical records being help up by the judiciary.
i’m not saying i agree with their ruling either, but please illustrate how it is politically motivated at this stage.
peace
John Cole
Again, Limbaugh allegedly committed multiple felonies, including allegedly forcing his maid to act as a drug mule. I agree that most rich white guys would get a slap on the wrist, but come fricking on.
There have been no allegations- allegations come in the form of charges. This is a politically motivated investigation in which records have been seized so as to create charges. Barry Krischer, the prosecuter in the case, has been caught doing all sorts of bullshit and I believe has even been reprimanded.
please be so kind as to point out the liberals in florida who have the juice to get the florida juiciary to gring their axes against limbaugh for them.
Oh for goodness sakes- I said the prosecution of this case is politically motivated. Judges don’t prosecute, do they?
I am talking about the person who started this investigation, a Palm Beach Democrat, not the judges, although I think that allowing this sort of seizure of medical records to start fishing for criminal charges is a horrible precedent.
Really- read the link to Talk Left I provided you- it details all the bullshit that has been going on in an effort to get Limbaugh.
I don’t like seeing bad, 4th Amendment-shredding precedent set, even if it is to the detriment of a bloviating, hypocritical piece of shit.
Hence the phrase ‘and liberty and justice for ALL.’
dagon
“I am talking about the person who started this investigation, a Palm Beach Democrat, not the judges, although I think that allowing this sort of seizure of medical records to start fishing for criminal charges is a horrible precedent.”
–john, i am inclined to agree on that. but, we are at the point where the judiciary HAS weighed in. wouldn’t it be more instructive to discuss why they didn’t decide that this is the dangerous precedent that we both seem to agree that it is and stop this?
peace
Slartibartfast
Yes, even bloviating, hypocritical pieces of shit are entitled to some nominal protection under the law. It’s why John Couey didn’t get his genitalia sawed off with a rusty hacksaw and force-fed to him.
John Cole
wouldn’t it be more instructive to discuss why they didn’t decide that this is the dangerous precedent that we both seem to agree that it is and stop this?
I have no idea why, although I would speculate that they are inclined to believe that the legislature intended for this to be allowed. Who knows. It is still a horrible precedent.
dagon
“wouldn’t it be more instructive to discuss why they didn’t decide that this is the dangerous precedent that we both seem to agree that it is and stop this?”
I have no idea why, although I would speculate that they are inclined to believe that the legislature intended for this to be allowed. Who knows. It is still a horrible precedent.
–i agree. i’m just trying to apply some perspective and take some of the sting out of the partisan direction this convo seemed to be heading.
peace
Flagwaver
dagon,
I assume you are conveniently forgetting that these are the same FLA appellate and Supreme Court that made multiple efforts to award the 2000 election to Al Gore on the basis of questionable “recounts” not provided for in Florida election law.
The Florida judiciary is as partisan as the left accuses the US Supreme Court of being.
This (execrable) ruling MAY not result from this partisanship . . . but I sure as heck wouldn’t bet that it is made in good faith.
space
John Cole:
The fact that prosecutors may have gone after Limbaugh because he is high profile does not mean that the investigation is politically motivated (nor does the political affiliation of the prosecutor absent further evidence). The same was true of Martha Stewart. The DOJ pretty much admitted they prosecuted her case because they are resources-limited and try to prosecute high-profile cases in order to send a message.
Also, while TalkLeft certainly agrees with the position that Dr. records should be subpoenaed and not seized with a search warrant, I didn’t see any evidence that they support your belief that the prosecution is politically motivated.
And while I agree with the principle that Dr. records should be subpoenaed – so that the subpoena can be challenged – in reality I don’t see that there is a substantive difference in this case. My understanding is that Limbaugh’s lawyers moved so fast that the records were sealed before the prosecutors could go through them. In which case, the practical effect of seizure relative to subpoena was nonexistent.
Finally, what Limbaugh and Roy Black are arguing is that the records should now be suppressed. Now I admittedly hate Rush’s guts and want to see him behind bars. So my opinion is biased. But I can’t help but note that suppression of illegally obtained evidence is exactly the type of “bleeding-heart liberal” technical rule that usually drives conservatives nuts. And while I normally agree with the rule when you are talking about a violation of Constitutional rights (beating information out of a suspect should be suppressed). I can’t agree with that in this case. If the Florida courts want to rule that police need to obtain a subpoena, fine. Suppressing the evidence in this case? No fucking way.
John Cole
Google Barry Krischer and read, Space.
Check up on how many times cases like this have been prosecuted.
Check out what Krischer said prior to this playing out on the national stage.
Check out what he did after this got national attention.
Check out the leaking.
Check out the bullshit about Limbaugh trying for a plea agreement.
As Limbaugh has already cleaned up and been to treatment, ask yourself what the benefit to society might be.
Look up prosecutorial disgression.
Tell me then, with a straight face, that this is not politically motivated.
space
Don’t get me wrong. This may very well be politically motivated (Although I’m skeptical that it is anything as simple as a Democratic-Republican dynamic. The evidence that I’ve seen is that Palm Beach County is a hotbed of OxyContin use and abuse. If it’s “politics” it appears to be the politics of making a high profile prosecution of a crime that is troubling the community.)
But, I’ll be honest. I don’t really care whether the prosecutor is going after Limbaugh as long as he’s guilty. The only question is this: Did Limbaugh break the law?
As Limbaugh has already cleaned up and been to treatment, ask yourself what the benefit to society might be.
Hey, man, you’re preaching to the converted! I hate the War on Drugs. I’m the first to say that drug abuse should always be dealt with
through treatment rather than imprisonment. But that isn’t the world we live in. We live in a world where Limbaugh and his followers have been preaching that we need to put MORE drug users behind bars. If he can talk the talk he should walk the walk.
On a side note, Dr. shopping appears to be the least of what Limbaugh did. According to witnesses, he purchased tens of thousands of dollars of OxyContin on the street. That’s no different than buying coke or heroin. And there are people in America serving life terms (3 strikes) who have done far less.
He also may be vulnerable to money-laundering charges. Bullshit? Maybe, but those are the types of charges that prosecutors use to threaten ordinary Americans into taking plea deals EVERY DAY.
Randolph Fritz
<tiredsnarky>This garbage is typical of the drug war. It’s been going on for years. I’m glad you’ve noticed it, but, guy, I wish you’d noticed before it happenned to Rush.</tiredsnarky>
Hint: Fourth Amendment rights have been a screaming issue for the ACLU for quite a few years now.
Kimmitt
Cole’s pretty consistent on this issue. I’d have more sympathy for Rush if Mr. Limbaugh weren’t so stridently in favor of “civil rights for me, but not for thee.”
Randolph Fritz
“Cole’s pretty consistent on this issue.”
Then I apologize to our host.
space
I just want to add one last thing. While most of the prosecutions in these Dr. shopping cases tend to — rightly — be against the doctors, it is still illegal for the patient to doctor shop. This isn’t a situation of police looking at Limbaugh’s records to build a case against someone else. Limbaugh is the suspect.
While I absolutely support privacy of medical records, nobody suggests that the right to privacy should be an absolute one. If you and your doctor conspire to murder someone, and the authorities have a reasonable suspicion that evidence of the conspiracy is contained in medical records, the police are going to be able to look at the medical records. Criminal investigations can justify invading the doctor-patient relationship.
Now, maybe these Dr. shopping laws are a bad idea (as I suggest they are). Fine. But as long as the crimes are on the books, the police have the right to investigate the crimes using the available evidence…medical records.
Halffasthero
In this case, Limbaugh does appear to be something of a hypocrite where drug use is involved. The ACLU defending him is usually pretty consistent in their actions where they defend “Justice For All.” As far as being politically motivated, I have no doubt that is how it started. He made himself a target, however, the minute he grabbed that microphone and started preaching from the far right. Politics has always had a two edged sword and everyone who enters the arena has to be ready to get hurt. Rush (like many politicians and pundits) has not been clean in his politics so can’t expect any courtesy in return. If he did it, then he knew what he was doing. When he was fishing for doctors he crossed the line. If his rights are being trampled as a drug user then perhaps this will help him to see things from the other side of the coin. Its easy to preach the evils of right and wrong and claim everything is black and white where drug use is concerned. People don’t take drugs because it is their wish to be a criminal; they usually do it for escape from pain. The thing is, he helped create the “jail then all and let them rot” philosophy so now he has the opportunity to see what he has sown. I hope he learns from this, because a lot of good can come of it if he does. He is a well known radio personality who has the ear of a lot of people. Perhaps his experience can enlighten people that it isn’t always “the other guy” who has the problem.
If that sounds liberal, well, I AM from Minnesota. Fiscal conservative, social liberal. Moderate.
John Cole
No one should have their medical records pulled so prosecutors and investigators can then determine if a crime has been committed, particularly in politically-motivated gotcha cases like this.
Period.
Those of you trying to explain this away because Rush somehow made his bed by being an idiot on the issue and helping to ‘create the culture’ are missing the point. No one should be subjected to this, no one should have the infinite resources of the government sifting through every aspect of their private lives to determine if a crime has been committed. Period.
Kimmitt
No one should have their medical records pulled so prosecutors and investigators can then determine if a crime has been committed, particularly in politically-motivated gotcha cases like this.
I agree, but we’ve already established that between the War On Some Drugs and the War On Terra, Americans are pretty close to having the privacy penumbra fully revoked. At that point, it’s just nice to see the revolution claiming its own. There really isn’t anything else to hope for; it’s not like the folks in charge at this point have a deep and abiding love of civil liberties or the rule of law.
Halffasthero
“No one should have their medical records pulled so prosecutors and investigators can then determine if a crime has been committed, particularly in politically-motivated gotcha cases like this.
Period.”
I entirely agree. The fact that it is being done and, especially being done to Rush should give him and the rest of all of us a nice dose of what civil liberties should all be about. He should now think twice before deciding whose need defending, because the next one can be you, me and him.
Bob Munck
No one should have their medical records pulled so prosecutors and investigators can then determine if a crime has been committed, particularly in politically-motivated gotcha cases like this.
I notice that you don’t ever mention the concept of “sufficient cause.” In fact, you seem to have snipped the words “with search warrants” out of the article you clipped (though it’s possible that the article was changed at its source after you accessed it). You make it sound like prosecutors are running amok through doctor’s offices, peering into file cabinets at random in hopes of getting lucky. In fact, a judge had to rule that there was sufficient cause to believe that a crime had been committed in order to grant the warrants. That’s how Limbaugh’s privacy is protected and it appears that the issuing court, the appeals court, and the FL Supreme Court all agree that it was in fact protected.
So it appears that two separate branches of government, executive and judicial, have to agree on the need to violate privacy to investigate criminal activities. Are you saying that you can’t trust the government, even when a checks-and-balances mechanism is involved? Would you prefer that the legislative had to be involved also? That’s worked so well in the past.
John Cole
I would have preferred some prosecutorial discretion, but barring that, a subpoena for the records, the manner this is normally handled, would have been ok.
John Cole
And I would definitely like it if the hysteria about drugs would stop, and people who seek treatment for their addictions, fulfill the treatment, and then move on with their lives be left the fuck alone.
dagon
“And I would definitely like it if the hysteria about drugs would stop, and people who seek treatment for their addictions, fulfill the treatment, and then move on with their lives be left the fuck alone.”
a secular amen to that john! but, as a lifelong republican, you haven’t exactly been on ‘the side of the angels’, when it comes to voting your conscience on this position.
something could very easily be done to stop this ridiculous ‘war’ on drugs if sensible people in the republican party would stop accepting the cynical sloganeering and demand that this shit be taken off of their platform.
but as we know, the republican party has been too busy recruiting the fundies and reactionaries to risk backing off of their punitive stances on drug addiction, poverty and mental health.
i’m not trying to get into a republican bad….democrat good discusiion, but let’s at least be honest about the situation.
peace
Barry Goldwater
It is abundantly clear that this is a politically motivated prosecution
So Rush Limbaugh being addicted to prescription drugs isn’t true? Rush didn’t check himself into rehab afterall?
Listen, when you’re dealing with the large amounts of illegal PRESCRIPTION DRUGS obtained through “Doctor Shopping” your medical records are extremely pertinent to the case. The records have to be reviewed so they can determine why and how Limbaugh was able to acquire his illegal drugs.
Does it bother the nutjobs in this party that Limbaugh is a drug addict, O’Reilly a sex offender, and Bennett is a compulsive gambler? When they judge someone else morals do Republicans feel embarassed and ashamed?
This party makes me sick. I’m now an independent.
Bob Munck
a subpoena for the records, the manner this is normally handled, would have been ok.
So your whole argument is that this was done with a search warrant rather than a subpoena? Wow, I can see why you’re outraged! A lousy search warrant. The horror, the horror.
Explain again how “[my] medical records are less private than they used to be.” Keep in mind, I’m not suspected of breaking the law and there’s no evidence that I have done so that a judge might see as sufficient cause to issue a warrant or subpoena.
Al Maviva
Bush v. Gore.
Schiavo v. Schindler.
State v. Limbaugh.
Noticing any common threads? I have friends who practice in the 11th Circuit, and they have dropped some hints…
As for people worried about the precedent of the Limbaugh case, I wouldn’t worry about it. If the Florida Supreme Court cared one whit for the text of the law, or precedent, there would be reason to worry. But there’s no reason to think they do, and all the evidence is that nothing other than political partisanship and sometimes random chance influences their decisions, and perhaps what they ate for breakfast that morning. Florida Supreme Court – the least intellectually rigorous regularly convening body this side of the Teletubbies.