I have narrowed my search down to the following used vehicles:
Honda Accord
Subaru Legacy sedan
Toyota Camry
I am really leaning towards the Subaru, even with the stigma of Subaru drivers. Comments?
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Stormy70
The Camry is your best choice. We’ve owned two Camries, and my father owns two. Even my mother owns one. They are reliable, and ours went into the shop only one time. Granted, it was the time I ran over my husband’s Camry with my Toyota Tacoma truck. In the driveway.
My father and stepmother have driven from Austin to Maine, from Austin to Wyoming, from Austin to damn near everywhere in their Camry. Camry’s go forever and get great gas milelage. Smooth ride, as well.
Kimmitt
My understanding is that the Subaru’s nicer to drive, but you will bequeath the Camry to your grandchildren.
Mark
My mom has a Subaru. All I will say is: beware the parts cost if something goes wrong.
bg
I have a Legacy. It’s fantastic, I expect it to last 12 years and parts aren’t much more expensive than other Japanese cars
bg
Also: when the hell did I get a stigma?
Kidding – Subaru’s have a much better reputation out west.
John Cole
Every enviro whacko in the state of WV drives a mid 90’s subaru wagon plastered with stupid stickers.
They are often found in the passing lane going significantly under the speed limit.
My favorite thing, of course, is watching all these environmentalists clogging the highway to drive four hours to ride their damned bikes or canoes.
Having said that, I test drove a Subaru Legacy sedan and liked it and the price.
Steven Taylor
I own two Toyotas: a Corolla and a Sienna mini-van and am quite pleased with both.
My in-laws have ownd teo Camries and two Toyota pick-ups and were exrremely pleased with both.
Mike Jones
Not sure what sort of winter you get there, John, but we love our Subaru here in upstate NY. It’s not so much that it goes where our other car (VW Golf) won’t, but that it’s a lot less exciting. We’re on our second Outback wagon after our first took on a brandy-new Volvo V90 that ran a red light. Totaled both vehicles, but no injuries to wife and kids. Never thought of replacing it with anything but another Outback.
the friendly grizzly
Subaru, eh? Strange. You don’t LOOK like a lesbian…
Mark is right: beware of parts costs. And, after 3 years, rattling windows.
Given that NONE of those three are a “bear car”, I have no axe to grind because none are suitable for my needs. To drive a car, I have to be able to get in and out of it easily, and with my tall torso I need either a pickup or a crossover like the Murano or the Rendezvous.
George T
I realize how passe this is, but what happened to the idea of buying what is manufactured in America by American business, because the profits stay here and keep Americans employed? So what if it costs just a little bit more, either in direct acquisition cost or in maintenance? The difference is negligible, and when balanced against the overall positive effect this has on our standard of living its miniscule.
A lot of Americans complain about “the race to the bottom” when talking about corporations outsourcing jobs overseas because of the lower labor costs. Too many of those same complainers don’t even see that they do the same things — i.e., race to the bottom — when they shop at Wal-Mart (non-union, low wages, almost no benefits that we the taxpayers have to supplement, “always low prices” that guarantees jobs going overseas); or when they buy cars or other items that are made overseas or by foreign manufacturing transplants here. To intentionally use the pun, the bottom line is that we are selling ourselves out to the lowest bidder without regard to the serious and negative long-term consequences to our economy and therefore our very national security.
John, I think you ought to start a trend and buy a GM or a Ford or a Chrysler. I would do it, if I had a job. And yes, I might be biased — I was born and raised in Flint, Michigan, the home of the 1936-1937 sitdown strike against GM (my grandfather was one of those brave souls) and the home of the U.A.W. If we fail to take a stand, those days of the brutal corporate bosses and the lack of benefits and security — already too real — will become the norm again.
Amazing what a little thing like buying a used car can represent, huh?
John Cole
I owned a Chevy Celebrity up until 6 months ago- loved it. It was the only car I ever had, and I am 34. I would like an American car, but I can’t find one with AWD and the reliability and gas mileage and the price.
BTW- foreign cars arent as foreign as they used to be.
http://www.autospectator.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=1230
TigerHawk
I’m unaware that Subaru drivers bear the burden of a stigma. Honda drivers, however, are an entirely different story…
Eyedoc
I’m presently driving a 10 year old Legacy which except for routine work has had very little wrong with it. The car was built in Indiana. Most of the Japanese cars are built in the US now.
JKC
My wife had a Subaru Impreza that ran 126Kmi with only one major repair; we only got rid of it because we couldn’t fit rear-facing car seats in the back.
If you want AWD, the Subaru is the only way to go. If not, consider a late-model Ford Focus. I just bought a 2005 wagon, and am very happy with it so far.
Stormy70
My father had a Toyota Corolla in the late 80s and 90s we called “Crunch”. It survived three teenage boys and one teenage girl, as well as surviving all the hippies who rammed their cars into it in Austin. It had 200,000 miles on it, and was still going strong years later, after all the kids had left. The Japanese can really build a car. He finally got rid of it when his dog refused to ride in it. So he traded it in for the first of several Camries. Did I mention you should pick the Camry?
Jon H
A Subaru stereotype is that it’s preferred by crunchy, outdoorsy lesbians.
bg
I’m tellin ya’ man, ain’t no Subaru stigma out west. If they’re not as popular as other cars, that’s just as well. It’s our little secret.
A buddy of mine just got an STi. I drool over it. What’s particularly great about Subarus is you usually get more car for your money. Both of our cars appear as though they should cost $10,000 more than they did.
But the bottom line is, of the three you’re thinking about, all are great cars.
And George, I know what you’re saying. My dad feels the same way. But I think my position is more tough love. American cars look like shit, drive like shit and break a lot. Until Detroit fixes that, I ain’t getting one.
Kimmitt
I bought a Saturn before GM screwed up their reliability. Then I bought a Chrysler and I’ve been regretting it ever since. 3-year-old appropriately maintained cars aren’t supposed to flat-out break down.
Jon H
Hey, John Cole.
When you’re looking at Subarus, if you visit a dealer, you should make a point of asking if they’re going to have a hybrid model coming out.
Even if you aren’t planning on buying one anytime soon, if ever, it can’t hurt to encourage them.
gswift
“I realize how passe this is, but what happened to the idea of buying what is manufactured in America by American business, because the profits stay here and keep Americans employed? So what if it costs just a little bit more, either in direct acquisition cost or in maintenance? The difference is negligible”
What happened to the idea of Americans making a sedan that’s not an utter POS? As someone who does quite a bit of basic work on my cars, the Japanese cars always outstrip the American models in every way, especially the Toyotas, with Hondas running a close second. The cost is not negligle. There’s the occasional outlier getting a trouble free American sedan, but on average they’re not in the same league with regards to longevity.
The earlier 80’s Subarus had horrendous problems with the CV boots and joints, but I’ve heard they fixed that years ago. Every Toyota in my family (two sisters with Corollas, Dad’s had two Camrys, I’ve got a Corolla and a Celica) has been a model of reliability. My experience in working on friends Toyotas has been the same. Again, Hondas a close second in reliability, but seems like the hondas were a bit more fun on the performance side.
bago
Rattling windows are easily cured by a brisk application of vaseline.
There’s a reason they say it’s not good lube. It softens rubber.
Pudentilla
the subaru is the national car of northern new england – even straight republicans drive them (you can tell because there are no bumper stickers). we got it because of the awd and because the awd and anti-lock breaks were standard. if winter is an issue in your life they’re a great choice – you never think about the snow.
on the other hand – when this one wears out (it only as 120K miles) we’ll be looking hard at hybrids, especially if they have 4wd or awd options – whoever makes em.
Veeshir
I used to sell used cars. My advice is to look at older models of the car you want to buy. Look at how well a 1990 version has held up.
Hondas are nicer as they get older. I’m not saying better, but nicer. Honda puts more money into the fit and finish of their cars.
bryan
I have a 93 camry that’s been a real road warrior with over 170,000 miles. We bought it with 90,000 miles on it.
Never owned a Honda, but I understand people swear by them.
The Lonewacko Blog
You can check edmunds.com for the years you have in mind and see prices, problems, etc. Also, check the auto newsgroups, especially (IIRC) rec.autos.tech. Price common replacement parts and repair costs looking for outliers.
I’d also consider getting a Jeep, Cherokee or Wrangler.
Kimmitt
Hondas are nicer as they get older. I’m not saying better, but nicer. Honda puts more money into the fit and finish of their cars.
Interestingly, this is a function of the Voluntary Export Restrictions, back in the 80s and 90s, in case anyone was curious.
SilverRook2000
I currently own a Honda Accord, and have owned a Civic in the past. I am 6’4″ and can report they both fit, although I prefer the Accord. Hondas are made in Marysville Ohio. I also owned three Subaru’s. Two Legacies and a Justy. Very tough cars. Parts are more expensive than a Honda though. They are made in Layfayette, IN and owned by GM. In the Midwest..snow and ice matter more than sexual orientation…
Mr Furious
Alright. I’ve had a Subaru, a Toyota and currently have a Honda. While I haven’t had any of the particular models you are choosing between, my experience has been extremely positive with all of them.
My Subaru was a 1980 4WD Hatch. An absolutly bulletproof car. Though when I worked at a Subaru dealer (washing cars as a kid) I can attest to the CV joint issue mentioned upthread, but everybody in New England swears by ’em. They’ve definitely closed the gap on the other two.
My Toyota was an old LandCruiser, old school FJ40, not this leather-bound poseur stuff people drive now. I was amazed that Toyota basically took a Jeep, re-engineered it into a vastly improved, far superior version of the same truck and brought it back over here.
We drive a 2003 Honda Odyssey as our family car, and it is fantastic. I’m kind of curious, I’ll have to run outside and see where it was assembled… Even if it was put together in Ohio, it left the drawing board a far superior minivan to anything offered by the big three.
From Consumer Reports:
I think that paragraph pretty much applies to any of the last five years…
Depends on what you want out of your car and how old a version you’re getting. If you deal with bad weather and are willing to sacrifice a bit of mileage, the Subaru is a clear winner with the AWD. Personally I’ve always thought the Accords were a better looking car than the Camrys (especially lately), but I’d probably say the Toyota might have a slight edge on the other two for reliability. But very slight. I don’t think you can go wrong, if you’re flipping a coin, go with whichever has the best local dealer or mechanic you’ll likely never need…
Mr Furious
More from Consumer Reports [all emphasis added by me]:
The Disenfrachised Voter
What happened to the idea of Americans making a sedan that’s not an utter POS?”
LOL. Ahh the truth hurts sometimes. I’ve only owned 1 car in my young life and that was a Chrysler. The thing was only 7 years old but it gave me nothing but problems and was a POS. I will never, ever buy an American made car again.
The Disenfrachised Voter
Oh and btw, I’d go with the Honda John. Honda makes some great cars and they seem to last forever.
Mazza
I am currently driving a 2003 Accord with a V6. Frankly, I can’t believe that, dollar for dollar, there is a better car on the road…
bonk
Honda has the best certified used program out there – 1 year bumper-to-bumper warranty plus (I think) 7-year/100,000 powertrain. This was what tipped it for me, since I found reliability, features, etc. between these companies to be more or less equal. Bought a 2000 Accord a couple of years ago and have been very happy with it.
Jay
Check out the Hyundai (wait wait) Sonata 6 cyl. Every bit as much car as your contenders for lots less dough.
http://www.nctd.com has comprehensive info and links to reviews.
Hyundais might be the best dollar for dollar value in the market, AND they have a 10 year 100,000 mile bumper-bumper warranty in addition to the 5 year 60,000 mile powertrain backup.
People will scoff, as they did in the early 70’s when people bought Toyotas, Hondas, and Datsuns, but Hyundai just finished 2nd behind Lexus in the JD Powers customer satisfaction survey.
Report back.
anon
Hey, John — isn’t it funny that the same people who accuse you of pinko economics when it comes to coddling big Pharma think you should buy a inferior-quality vehicle just because it’s an American brand?
Mr Furious
Consumer Reports listed Hyundai right up there with Honda and Toyota for quality/reliability. Crediting them with an astounding improvement. (Which might mean, that you want to stay away from an old one…).
I’ve never so much as sat in a Hyundai, so I can’t say much about them, but theyt are cheaper…
JKC
My brother-in-law has a Hyundai Santa Fe that he’s very happy with.
Dodd
The Honda and the Toyota will hold their value much better than the Subaru. Havign more experience with Toyotas, I’d recommend that, but Hondas are great cars, too.
Jay
One reason put forth for Hyundai’s quality turnaround is that they are using Japanese manufacturing processes and robotics.
I’d stay away from anything older than 2003 though…
Mr Furious
As someone who could not afford even a 3-4 year old Outback when I looked this winter, I’d say the Subarus hold their value just fine…
the friendly grizzly
I keep hearing what pieces of crap American cars are. This has just, plain NOT been my experience or the experience of our family. I see folks further up the list here who will never buy another American car ever, based on one car they bought used. do you KNOW the history of those cars? I doubt it.
My brother runs a one-man boat transport business. He regularly drives his Chevrolet trucks 250K before he sells them, and gets another. That usually takes 18 to 24 months. I have had domestic cars for years; I would fix or update maintenance previous owners had neglected, and then drive them many trouble-free miles.
I have a Chevy truck of my own. Some of the miles I put on it include picking up a work associate at the Toyota agency where his Tundra goes for transmission service, and brakes every 23 to 25K.
As they say in the car ads: your mileage may vary.
See my blog, March archives, for further commentary. I don’t condemn imports out of hand, but do not see them as being the shining light at the top of the hill either.
Now, I must depart: got a friend picking me up in his 318K old Buick LeSabre; we’re headed out on a road trip.
John Cole
Griz- I want something that has all the things I want. Most of the American cars don;t offer it- and I have looked.
BTW, like I said, I had a Chevy my entire life. And I would drive a LeSabre, but for the mileage issues.
I bet your friend’s LeSabre has that 3800 engine. Very solid engine.
Kimmitt
do you KNOW the history of those cars? I doubt it.
The thing is, the poster above uses non-anecdotal evidence from Consumer Reports on the issue. There are a few good American cars, and the rest just don’t measure up to their Japanese counterparts.
the friendly grizzly
John, it is indeed, and gives a more or less consistent 29 to 30 on the highway. He’s on the original engine, and the tranny went 285K before needing a sensor.
The car mags all turn their nose up at the 3800 because it is not loade down with all manner of whirly-bits; it’s just a pushrod 2-valve V6. But nothing outlasts it, outruns it, or is as good with gas vs the performance offered.