It took the Huffington Post about 36 hours from when I discovered it to veer hard left into the fever swamps. Go read Jim Lampley and John Conyers forwarding the myth that the 2004 election was stolen in a Rove scheme. I have to say I am surprised- I didn’t think they would go moonbat left this early, and I thought it would be a more established lefty nut (like Garafalo) to lead the charge into tinfoil hat territory.
Lampley’s evidence- the sportsbooks were wrong:
People who have lived in the sports world as I have, bettors in particular, have a feel for what I am about to say about this: these people are extremely scientific in their assessments. These people understand which information to trust and which indicators to consult in determining where to place a dividing line to influence bets, and they are not in the business of being completely wrong. Oddsmakers consulted exit polling and knew what it meant and acknowledged in their oddsmaking at that moment that John Kerry was winning the election.
And he most certainly was, at least if the votes had been fairly and legally counted. What happened instead was the biggest crime in the history of the nation, and the collective media silence which has followed is the greatest fourth-estate failure ever on our soil.
John Conyers thanks Lampley for his courage:
On Huffington Post today, Jim Lampley brings the story back to its essential question: who are you going to believe — what the mainstream media tells you or your lying eyes? During the challenge, filmmaker Linda Byrket released a short film about Ohio that I sent to every Member of the Senate as they were deciding whether to support the Ohio challenge (it is a large file that you can download here).
In much the same way Ms. Byrket made the facts of this injustice accessible through film, Mr. Lampley’s post offers an accessible perspective I have never heard before. I highly recommend it and congratulate him for his courage. He is right — it is the biggest story of our lives.
And there you have the far left in a nutshell: smug, condescending, deceitful, paranoid, self-congratulating, in denial and divorced from reality, and wholly uncredible. Some choice the American system has- John Conyers or Pat Robertson. Isn’t there any way to marginalize stupid?
Predictably, Atrios Attaturk, Guest-blogging for Atrios (Thanks, Bumper!) is gleeful:
Somebody is a blog-reader!
Yeah, but not the right damned blog. How many times is this exit poll myth going to have to be debunked?
*** Update ***
For the record, I don’t think it sucks at all. I actually like it and plan to keep it as adaily read. I am just surprised they delved that quickly into the conspiracy theories.
*** Update ***
Byron York has the temerity to introduce facts into the debate, and Lampley explodes. And the intra-blog nasty fight I wanted has materialized already. Joy to the world.
BTW- They originally had the wrong picture up for Jim Lampley, which was amusing. It actually looked like a picture of Larry Merchant, if you can believe that…
Libertine
I am suspicious of ES&S and Diebold. I don’t think the people who run voting machine companies should be active in supporting particular candidates, which they have been. But the far left needs to either show proof of voter fraud or stop their unsubstantiated claims.
But there was disenfranchisement of many Black voters in 2000/2004 which should be addressed. I am not saying it was part of a concertred effort…IMO no conspiracies. I just take the position that everybody who wants to vote should be able to, and judging by the lack of machines in some Ohio districts and confusion at the polls I am not sure everybody who wanted to vote were able too…
Maybe hold the national elections in a 2-3 day period instead of one day.
Brian
Went there. It’s not a blog. It’s just a newspaper. A liberal rag. There are others, this one counts least of all.
A blog.
A blog is written by someone without a publicist, a press agent, an editorial team, an agent who reels in writers, a slew of web designers and coders, and most of all, a launch party.
I blog. I write what I want, and no one says “could we reword this part? The humor is offensive”. I write when I want. I am unconcerned with web traffic. It’s my log. I’m not some prudish purist, I just get what blogging is about. This is like Vanity Fair, only more liberal, and completely ignorant of it’s demographic.
What in the name of all that is holy and sane made Arianna think anyone in the bloggosphere (or people who in general like to read online publications) remotely desires another outlet for famous liberals to vomit into? Surely if these outlets were in demand, the NY Times would have good circulation numbers right now.
Good. I’m glad she did it. Let all these people spew. It’s fine. It’s like a rich person rolling in soil to be accepted by the working class. Condescending bullshit no one is fooled by.
Yay.
Rick
John,
The difference being, Pat Robertson is just a “name” evangelist. If the Democrats retake the House of Representatives, Conyers will most certainly chair a committee.
So the choice isn’t too difficult for a people wishing to stay free (/smug).
Cordially…
Christie S.
Umm, John…this is Arianna Huffington we’re talking about. Did you really expect a centrist point of view?
But, as you say, they’re brand new on the circuit. Maybe they’ll go Crossfire on us. Which could, at least, be interesting to read.
Kimmitt
Um, when the dude counting the votes promises to do everything in his power to get one guy elected, it’s really naive not to suspect something.
Rick
I just take the position that everybody who wants to vote should be able to…
Dare I hope that you mean “every legal, registered voter?”
The Diebold suits rolled up their sleeves and counted votes? Rather commendable on their part, I would think, Kimmitt.
As for their affiliation, better it be known, than camouflaged or lied about, as in the case of so many erstwhile objective talking heads and eminences.
Cordially…
Laurence Simon
Lampley: idiot.
Conyers: race-baiting idiot-enabler
It’s called King County in Washington State. Investigate that.
If you want ethical malfeasance in Ohio, fine. Go after Stephanie Tubbs-Jones.
Jeff
Lampley sounds like someone whose brain is scrambled more than Meldrick Taylor’s after the Chavez fight.
Libertine
Dare I hope that you mean “every legal, registered voter?”
Yes, that is what I meant Rick. And I don’t think that all registered voters were allowed to vote due to right wing conspiracy theorists who think that black voters are involved in massive voter fraud…
And as far as Diebold and ES&S go. One…they are partisan Republicans. And two…there are legitimate questions about their code and it’s security. Until these questions are fully resolved there are going to be people like me (suspicious) and others who go farther and claim conspiracy.
ketel
Look, I’m not convinced that anything bad happened in the 2004 elections. But to say that people who want to protect our elections and make them more fair are out to curtail our freedoms. Rick, I’m talking to you. All Conyers is asking for is an investigation, not some legislation invading your privacy or making you do something you don’t want to do, like carrying a frickin’ Real ID national identification card. (I’d love to hear John’s take on this latest nonsense.)
Still, some very troubling things happened last year. Did you see the video Conyers linked to? Do you find anything wrong with that? Can we try to fix the problem? Can a conservative here please tell me what would be wrong with new legislation that helps to build confidence in our voting system? Is there anything wrong with making November 2 a national holiday so people could take time off work to vote? Is there anything wrong with demanding that there be an absolutely rock-solid way to verify votes, including using secure voting machines, if we use machines at all? If not, why not?
If Republicans are so sure the country is really just a big swath of red, why don’t we put to rest all those blue state insecurities about the voting process and make the whole thing much more transparent and open to review? Why do Republicans vote against legislation that could only possibly serve to reinforce our democracy?
ketel
curtail our freedoms is ridiculous. Sorry!
S Ty
I think the past several elections have shown rather emphatically that American elections are about as corrupt as it’s possible to get in a democratic system and the republicans are massaging “the system” with the best of them.
You don’t see anyone worrying about “electronic voting machines” anywhere else do you. Anyone who DOESN’T think votes are getting manipulated is the naive one.
BumperStickerist
point of order …
Atrios is the blogger
Eschaton is the blog
the post in question was written by Attaturk, not Atrios.
which is to say, by blogosperic standards, I’m OUTRAGED at John Cole’s sloppiness and this fatally detracts from John’s credibiltiy any issue whatsoever on this or any other blog OUTRAGE!!
Rick
right wing conspiracy theorists who think that black voters are involved in massive voter fraud…
But this often seems to be the case. Mostly due the lamentably high correlation of Blacks w/Democratic affiliation. It’s the pockets of one-party utter dominance (King County, as someone mentioned above, anyone?) that are most susceptible to this.
So there may be some real crimson-red precincts that are crooked. I fully trust the Democratic-leaning media to sniff out such vote fraud. But I fully trust them to leave the Democratic fraud un- or under-reported.
Who might not have been “allowed” to vote, rather than chose not to wait in line? If these supposed disfranchised voters are African-American, it’s hard to see palefaced right wingers having much sway with their election officials, being Democratic districts and all.
Of course, the KKK was a Democratic society, and old habits may die hard (and not Die Bold).
Cordially…
S Ty
I think the past several elections have shown rather emphatically that American elections are about as corrupt as it’s possible to get in a democratic system and the republicans are massaging “the system” with the best of them.
You don’t see anyone worrying about “electronic voting machines” anywhere else do you. Anyone who DOESN’T think votes are getting manipulated is the naive one.
S Ty
I think the past several elections have shown rather emphatically that American elections are about as corrupt as it’s possible to get in a democratic system and the republicans are massaging “the system” with the best of them.
You don’t see anyone worrying about “electronic voting machines” anywhere else do you. Anyone who DOESN’T think votes are getting manipulated is the naive one.
BumperStickerist
actually, not OUTRAGE per se .. just OUTRAGE per Sullivan
Libertine
Who might not have been “allowed” to vote, rather than chose not to wait in line? If these supposed disfranchised voters are African-American, it’s hard to see palefaced right wingers having much sway with their election officials, being Democratic districts and all.
There were no lines in Ohio’s Republican precincts. But massive lines and a shortage of machines in minority districts. Ken Blackwell was in charge of allocating the machines. The same Ken Blackwell who chaired the Bush/Cheney team in Ohio.
And as far as the example you cite of voting irregularities Rick…citing that as proof of some vast left wing voter fraud conspiracy is like someone claiming the e-voting machines were rigged because some of the anomolies that occurred the last election. Neither is proof to me…
Libertine
And I am curious too Rick. How is Conyers going take away our freedom?
And I agree with ketel…our elections (which have been a shining example for the rest of the world) should be without question. Do any of us have a problem with transparent elections? Why won’t Diebold and ES&S let the machines be examined? And I am tired of hearing that they are proprietory owners of the code in the machines and don’t want their code stolen.
ppgaz
I haven’t really followed this story, because conspiro stuff gives me a headache. Give me facts and hard evidence, or leave me alone. There’s enough work to do without wasting brain cells on mighta-coulda-beens.
But make no mistake, the right has the territory sewn up when it comes to conspirowacko bullshit. Or have we forgotten the Vince Foster murder already? The government’s plot to burn down the Branch Davidians? etc ad nauseam. Check Usenet under alt.conspiracy and read a million articles going back to 1997 and earlier if you doubt me. By “a million” I mean, many more tens of thousands than you can possibly read.
I can’t imagine why anyone wastes their time with such nonsense … or wastes prime blog real estate (yours, John) on it either, pro or con. But that’s just me.
Jay
Does Lampley really believe this nonsense or is he putting his readers on? I’ve heard Lampley sub for Jim Rome before and he’s quite the wise-ass.
This just seems too off the wall to be true.
Jay
Does Lampley really believe this nonsense or is he putting his readers on? I’ve heard Lampley sub for Jim Rome before and he’s quite the wise-ass.
This just seems too off the wall to be true.
Jay
Sorry for the double post.
Rick
Libertine,
Uh…Blackwell didn’t control the state’s pool of voting machines (does any Sec’y of State have such a monopoly? I wouldn’t think so):
http://www.house.gov/cha/Blackwell%20HAVA%20testimony1.doc
The report stated
Libertine
Jim Lampley…LMAO!! Anybody who tries to make the case he tried to make is nothing more then a conspiracy theorist. The bookies and their odds is not the proof…just more lunacy.
We need much more transparency in our election process because I agree with ppgaz…
I haven’t really followed this story, because conspiro stuff gives me a headache
Anybody got some Advil?
Rick
Please note: my post just above contains a large c&p passage that ends with “…even insulting.” For some reason, there seems to be a strict limit in the comments here on italicizing passages.
Rick
ppaz,
The right has it sewn up. Just ONE WORD, ppaz, ONE word: Michael Moore & Oliver Stone.
OK, more than ONE WORD. There’s also dozens and dozens of conspiracy peddling dot-orgs vacuuming bucks from left wing boobs. And that’s a good thing, I think.
Cordially…
Rick
Libertine,
Conyers is a greater threat than the Pat Robertson punching bag by dint of his tenure in Congress.
Also by dint of his association:
http://bernie.house.gov/pc/members.asp
Now some folks see “progressive,” and their heads fill with visions of sugar plums. I, OTOH, see barbed wire and reeducation camps. But only after a gestation period of greater taxes, and greater regulation of American life.
Theocracy without God.
Cordially…
pudintame
Repuplicans suck and suck and suck and suck and suck and …..
ketel
Most of the Cleveland/Columbus districts with the lines were using punch cards, and not the RNC controlled Diebold/ESS killer aps. ;)
Wrong. Again, did you watch the video or are you just happy to parrot your made up fantasy? Over and over and over again you can see black voters talking about “broken machines” being a part of the huge delay problem (heheh). These are not broken punch-card voting machines, they are electronic voting machines.
Also, your whole diatribe about democrats in the process is moot. I know that power can be abused regardless of who holds it. I just want to absolutely ensure that we have as accountable of a voting system as possible. Why don’t you?
And again, why did Republicans in Florida repeatedly vote against and try to stymie any attempt to provide some accountability. Oh yeah, printing receipts was way too hard and would cost too much. Like it’s broken the backs of grocery stores that print out millions of receipts every day.
Also, please do provide some real evidence for why Conyers has an authoritarian mindset. Then explain how having a national ID card with a microchip with too much personal info on it, that has to be machine readable, the data from which must be stored in a massive federally maintained database for easy crosschecking, and which can contain biometric information in the future, is not authoritarian. To top it all off, this quite serious bill that will change all of our lives was smuggled through Congress hidden in the most recent Iraq military spending request. You can’t vote against the troops!! No public notice of this important legislation, no open debate on the floor of the House or Senate. WTF??? And I’m a little cynical around the likes of you, but could you possibly refrain from calling an elected official (and particularly a black one) a Congresscritter?
Rick
Congresscritter Conyers! Neener-neener! Particularly Black!
Cordially…
bogeyman
Now some folks see “progressive,” and their heads fill with visions of sugar plums. I, OTOH, see barbed wire and reeducation camps. But only after a gestation period of greater taxes, and greater regulation of American life.
Theocracy without God.
Now THERE’s some paranoid delusional thinking. Or is it just standard BS to distract us from the topic at hand?
AchillesHeel
Sure.
All the anomalies and malfunctions in Ohio distributed along one axis of consistency–favoring only candidate Bush–and you guys write it off.
Suit yourselves.
Rick
Ketel,
Try to impeach this source:
http://ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=191201
► No Ohio County used Diebold Electronic Voting Machines (See Press Release Below)
Ohio did not use modern electronic voting machines in this election. Six counties use an older form of electronic voting, which has a means of verifying the accuracy of the vote. In 69 Ohio Counties, punch card ballots were used.
Some parroting of fantasy by Ohio Dems, no doubt.
A video of some complaints is proof of conspiracy? Then I take it you have great faith in the charges borne by the “Clinton Chronicles.”
As for Conyers, a post of mine earlier will stand.
A Star Trek ID card as you describe is unnecessary, but would probably serve as an internal passport in a progressive regime, so perhaps it’s inevitable. I’d prefer a combo Soc. Sec./ID/Passport as establishing citizenship, and voting rights.
Cordially…
ketel
Thought so. Minus the childish reponse, you didn’t answer a single thing I said. Classic.
Oh, and as for that progressive list you linked to there followed by “see barbed wire and reeducation camps”. You’re just as much of a nut as Lampley. Where do you get this crap from? This is the face of the new McCarthyism and I for one throw it back in your face. I’m a proud progressive, thinking person who doesn’t think constantly of sugar plums, but lives in reality. Again, please provide some evidence of Conyers authoritarianism. Anything.
Sincerely and with much love…
Rick
I guess all the socially-just workers paradises from 1917 to 1991 were merely my paranoid delusion.
No affiliation with socialism or anything “progressive” at all.
Keep moving; nothing to see here. After all, when history repeats itself, it does so as farce.
Cordially…
ketel
Thought so. Minus the childish reponse, you didn’t answer a single thing I said. Classic.
Oh, and as for that progressive list you linked to there followed by “see barbed wire and reeducation camps”, you’re just as much of a nut as Lampley. Where do you get this crap from? This is the face of the new McCarthyism and I for one throw it back in your face. I’m a proud progressive, thinking person who doesn’t think constantly of sugar plums, but lives in reality. Again, please provide some evidence of Conyers authoritarianism. Anything.
Sincerely and with much love…
shark
Do the Dems want to really see an election stolen?
Suppose the Dems win the next Pres. race while the GOP still controls congress.
When the electoral votes are being certified, why doesn’t the GOP just challenge and throw out enough Democrat electoral votes to give their guy the election?
Then they can REALLY cry about a stolen election…
ketel
Sorry, I should have waited for 8 more responses separately answering different points.
If my progressive thoughts equate to all the failed, corrupt socialist regimes in the past, then you are an Arab mullah trying to impose a theocracy on us all. Neither is true, so please dispense with that nonsense. I am not a boogeyman and neither are you.
That Star Trek ID you wrote about above was voted on today and will probably pass. And it requires all the things I stated above. Go read it for yourself. Unless someone stops it somehow, we will all be carrying one.
fairies be unto you… BOO!
shark
By the way, what’s the over/under on how long it takes something one of these idiots writes on this blog to get them fired/suspended/in hot water at their real jobs?
Libertine
Rick…right is right, and you were. I went back and checked and your right Blackwell had nothing to do with allocating of machines the within the counties. But that does not temper my criticism of Mr. Blackwell. He tried like hell to minimize absentee and provisional ballots…provisional ballots are used in mainly minority districts. Blackwell’s actions didn’t pass the smell test IMO. I do have a problem when someone who is in charge of running elections being the chair of a candidate’s re-election team.
And while no Diebold machines were used in Ohio the ES&S machines were. The former chairman of ES&S is Chuck Hagel. Now I am not saying that is a smoking gun but it does raise questions. There were questions from 2000 about the accuracy of the e-machines and those questions ended up getting more muddled after 2004.
My main issues…
1.) I have issues with people in charge of administering elections being involved in a particular candidate’s campaign.
2.) That the companies that make the voting machines being SO VERY partisan.
As far as point number 2 goes…I wouldn’t be as concerned if there was transparency. But being partisan companies and a lack of oversight is a daily double that makes me very uneasy.
M. Scott Eiland
Lampley needs to team up with Keith Olbermann on his show; after all, the only thing better than one overrated sportscaster turned incompetent moonbat political commentator is a team of them.
Rick
Ketel,
Please give a cite for the ID. All I see from Google in the past few minutes is stuff like this:
http://www.theledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050508/NEWS/505080374/1036
Not a terrible idea. but Congress ought to fund it. I’m not terribly concerned with the government collection such info, as this is mostly repetitive. IRS intrustion makes any else seem like a month in the country.
Cordially…
Libertine
Conyers is a greater threat than the Pat Robertson punching bag by dint of his tenure in Congress.
Also by dint of his association:
http://bernie.house.gov/pc/members.asp
Now some folks see “progressive,” and their heads fill with visions of sugar plums. I, OTOH, see barbed wire and reeducation camps. But only after a gestation period of greater taxes, and greater regulation of American life.
Theocracy without God.
Was that a link to Bernie Sander’s site? The people of Vermont love Bernie and I am betting he will be Jefford’s replacement.
I still don’t see how you make the leap that Conyers is that much of a threat…but even if the dems do regain the Congress how much worse can it be then now? The government is allowed to spy on us, the Bible replacing the Constitution, coprorate welfare (costing tax payer’s billions), we are waging unprovoked wars of agression (at the taxpayer’s expense again), and larger more intrusive big spending government.
I take a much different view who is a bigger threat to our freedoms. I hate the neocons. Whatever happened to true (Goldwater) conservatives? I miss them…
Rick
Libertine,
Blackwell confesses failure to limit provisional ballots in the link I gave above:
“Regarding provisional ballots the report stated,
Libertine
I was not just trying to say Blackwell is the only politician who does it. I don’t think it is right democrat or republican.
And I too hope for honest elections where people don’t have to jump through hoops to vote and there are no questions of if the vote is accurate. Would the dems rule the day? Possibly. Maybe it could be the GOP? I don’t know. I say let the chips fall where they may as long as the vote is honest. But right now I am not convinced the process is honest and fair.
ppgaz
Moore/Stone versus General Conspirowackodom:
Stone and Moore have figured out how to make a lot of money out of uncertainty and doubt. Good for them, it’s the American way.
But general conspirowackodom is a whole ‘nother horse of a different ballgame, if you’ll pardon the deliberately butchered metaphors.
The real conspirowackos actually believe that the government controls the weather, that the government caused 9-11 and deliberately blew up the Pentagon and rigged the twin towers to fall down, that the government blew up the Murrah building and faked the moon missions and …..
… on and on. Michael Moore? His movies are funny as hell, and consist mostly of rented footage. Those pictures of Old Bush schmoozing with the Saudis? Canned newsreel footage. The guy took canned footage, made a few rather good jokes about the shithead Bush family, and made millions of dollars. Good for him, I wish I’d thought of it. Is there an outrage? Yeah. Our government is run by people who suck up to the goddam Saudis, that’s the outrage, and good for Moore to expose it, because it is disgusting.
Moore is not a conspirowacko, he is a brilliant huckster. Stone? Who knows. Who cares? People didn’t believe the Warren Commission before his movie, either. Looks like he also figured out how to profit from the gullibility of the public. Like that’s a new thing?
I guess those “end time” bestselling books are just honest religious texts, then? Yeah, that must be it.
Rick
PPgaz,
Actually, at the fringe right, and the fringe left, there is an unholy unity. IOW, any distinctions make little or no difference.
Aryan nation/Indymedia and on and on. Nihilists.
Cordially…
Rick
Libertine,
Oh, I’m sure right now the voting process isn’t honest and fair. I differ with some on this thread, and I guess you, in my belief as to which side suffers most from the fraud.
Mmmmmm…I rather admire the “neocons,” as they’ve concluded that their youthful “progressive” ‘tood was a bunch of hurtful bunk. Sure, since he’s been dead, it’s safe to praise Goldwater. Old Landslide Barry.
I liked him a lot, but how little hyperbole changes: in 1964 he was…wait for it!!!…SCARY!! Like Pat Dobson.
Cordially…
Gary Farber
There’s no content in the Huffpost posts, of course.
However.
John, for six months I dismissed the claims of significant problems, let alone worse, in Ohio as simple griping from those unable to believe they could lose, and willing to believe any conspiracy theory that played to that.
But it appears that there were — and I would make no claim at all stronger at this time — serious questions indeed. You wouldn’t call Christopher Hitchens someone inclined to buy into baseless anti-Bush ranting, would you?
There are questions that need to be answered about Ohio’s election day before simply assuming any answer. Any answer. Elections are too serious for us to assume.
Libertine
Goldwater had the same fate of a democratic candidate 40 years later Rick. Sadly the “nuclear bomb” ad was the beginning of the decent of political discourse in this country. And it has become lie, smear and discredit at any cost. The electorate has been dumbed down that no one really pays attention to the issues (save for us on the blogosphere). It is all about “image” with the vast majority of the people voting.
But sadly now that “win at all cost” style of campaigning has become the way the politicians govern. Talk to all the old school Republicans Dole, Kemp, et al and they are horrified at the proposed “Nuclear Option” in the Senate. But what the hell up to now the parties used to communicate with one another to make sure Judicial Nominees were acceptable to both sides…now not only is that not happening there are some who want to change the Senate rules…so they can win at any cost. I don’t see the fences being mended in the short term, unfortunately.
That is why I like this place John has…it allows rational people on both sides discuss things in a civilized manner even in disagreement…
Stormy70
Weren’t duels fought in Congress at one time? Bitter partisan politics is par for the course, thank God. It is the American Way.
Libertine
Fighting duels? I don’t know about in the Senate…maybe the House. Didn’t representative Calhoun (SC) beat a fellow House member from Massachusetts senseless with his cane in the 19th cnetury? I don’t know if that is anything but infamous and shameful…and I am thinking God would not want thanks for that, just my 2 cents.
Andrei
“The electorate has been dumbed down that no one really pays attention to the issues (save for us on the blogosphere).”
Sorry… but in reading the comments that people leave at places like Little Green Footballs and DailyKos, I’d have to disagree. The Blogosphere imho is making the problem worse by allowing people to be less accountable for their political positions while congregating in larger numbers to preach to their own choirs.
“That is why I like this place John has…it allows rational people on both sides discuss things in a civilized manner even in disagreement…”
It certainly tends to be better than most.
Libertine
Sorry… but in reading the comments that people leave at places like Little Green Footballs and DailyKos, I’d have to disagree. The Blogosphere imho is making the problem worse by allowing people to be less accountable for their political positions while congregating in larger numbers to preach to their own choirs.
LOL
You are right about people just spouting stuff and preaching to their respective choirs (I have been guilty of that once or twice). And even though at times their views might be very biased or are debatable in terms of factual accuracy…at least people are talking issues…for the most part. :-)
ppgaz
Rick, I agree, fringes are fringes.
And fundamentalism and extremism are … bad, no matter which side of the fence they come from.
Rick
Libertine,
Dole favors employing the filibuster for judicial nominees? Cite please, because I read otherwise: http://www.qando.net/details.aspx?Entry=1667
As for Jack F. Kemp, ahhh…now Mr. Nuance, much like the Massachusetts JFK of last year’s election. To think Kemp couldda been a contenda:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/jackkemp/jk20041115.shtml
And to think my first political BB brawling screen-name was Rick4Kemp96! What a naive-tard I was.
Anyway, there’s nothing in the Constitution about filibusters, or supermajorities for the Senate’s advice and consent. If Bush nominees are too extreme, that verdict should be rendered in an up or down vote.
Like Ruth Ginsburg got, despite being on the left, left bank of the “mainstream.”
Cordially…
Rick
Nitecap on vote fraud: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/10/AR2005051000971.html
In the GOP stronghold of Milwaukee, no less.
Of course, this article appears in what one correspondent here had the sense of humor to describe as the “conservative leaning” Washington Post.
Oh, I still chuckle.
Cordially…
Al Maviva
Pat Robertson isn’t in Congress, and couldn’t buy a seat.
Conyers is a respected member of the Dem leadership.
Big difference between one fringe, and the other.
ketel
Sorry, had to go do some work. Rick, use this link instead.
Libertine
Rick…To quote Bob Dole.
“WASHINGTON
Libertine
And Rick you call into question Ginsberg? She is fairly moderate…while Scalia and Thomas are somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun.
Actually the two most liberal Justices are Souter and Stevens. Stevens was appointed by Ford and Souter was appointed by Bush’s old man, LMAO!!!
Jason
Stevens was appointed by Ford and Souter was appointed by Bush’s old man, LMAO!!!
If that’s the case, what are Dems so afraid of? The GOP has a lousy track record of appointing jurists who march in lockstep with their agenda.
Maybe that’s the whole problem… Bush, for all of the dumbass references that are leveled at him by his enemies, is actually getting results in areas where his party predecessors failed.
Jason
Stevens was appointed by Ford and Souter was appointed by Bush’s old man, LMAO!!!
If that’s the case, what are Dems so afraid of? The GOP has a lousy track record of appointing jurists who march in lockstep with their agenda.
Maybe that’s the whole problem… Bush, for all of the dumbass references that are leveled at him by his enemies, is actually getting results in areas where his party predecessors failed.
Libertine
Well Jason…either we get Stevens and Souter or Thomas and Scalia. It is 50/50 at best…
In the 80’s Bork was blocked for being too extreme and Brown and Owens should be blocked for the same reason, not because they are conservative. I have no problem with conservative judges, in fact I like them…I just don’t like extremes on either end of the political spectrum.
Sorry I think I have helped get this thread waaaaaaay off topic though.
KC
Off topic, but did anyone see that story on United defaulting on its employees’ pension plans? Seems a litte f’d up to me.
KC
Off topic, but did anyone see that story on United defaulting on its employees’ pension plans? Seems a litte f’d up to me.
Rick
She is fairly moderate…while Scalia and Thomas are somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun.
Libertine,
Nooooo…Sandra O’Connor is fairly moderate. Ginsburg is an ideologue. But the right kind, so certain constituencies.
Attila was a wuss, BTW. Caligula, now we’re talking. ;)
Cordially…
Rick
Thanks, Ketel.
Extra PITA, but not the Great Terror. As I suspected, it’s duplicative in re: content.
Which a famous government specialty.
And if combats vote fraud, its worth it.
Cordially…
Compuglobalhypermeganet
Jim Lampley? Jim Lampley? The talking haircut from HBO Boxing?
What next? Frank Gifford’s take on the filibuster of judicial nominees?
Marv Albert answering the question, “Should the Social Security wage cap be raised?” (His answer, not surprisingly: “YES! And it counts!”)
I’m holding out for a Vin Scully lyrical essay on the ideal makeup of the Iraqi government.
Lamps, tell me about Sugar Shane Moseley, and I’ll give a crap about your opinion. Until then, lose the condescending tone and start every sentence of your political diatribes with, “I’m only a TV boxing analyst, but…”
yeranalyst
I guess the ranks of statisticians who examined the numbers from that election including the exit polling and determined that the odds that the election wasn’t fixed are astronomical should all be donning tin foil hats as well. Here we have it from a sactimonious died in the wool Republican that these people are all looney tunes without offering one shred of rebuttal evidence. We have only his charm and strong sense of partisan veracity to make us believers. He sounds like good material for the msm.