I fully expect this will simply add fuel to the fire in the ongoing anti-military argument circulating through the blogosphere the administration:
The United Nations on Sunday condemned as “utterly unacceptable” the alleged abuse of detainees at the main U.S. base in Afghanistan, and urged the U.S. military to allow a probe by Afghan human rights investigators.
The New York Times reported Friday that poorly trained U.S. soldiers had repeatedly abused detainees. Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Saturday called for tough punishment of abusers, and for the United States to hand over all Afghans still in its custody.
Please, right-wingers, because I am particularly cranky this week-end, spare me the howls of outrage about an organization that has Sudan, Egypt and all sorts of rogue governments sitting on the Human Rights council having the nerve to criticize the United States on torture.
While our sins pale in comparison to the hideous regimes, and I would in no way equate our sins with those of Syria or countries like her, we continue to rend people to these countries for torture. We continue to do little to nothing about the ongoing abuses that are alleged in virtually every prison camp we are running. So far, the only people to pay a price are a few low level enlisted soldiers and one General had a star removed and was able to retire on full pay.
So just spare me the outrage at the UN making these statements. What do you expect them to say?
And while you are at it, recognize that their statements of outrage will most likely be every bit as inconsequential as the frequent statements of outrage over abuse made by our Congressmen and this administration. The UN, much like the United States, knows how to say the ‘right’ things, do nothing, and get back to business as usual.
I am, in short, just flat outraged out.
Lee
It’s not that people aren’t ‘outraged’ (that word seems to be an overused buzz word like ‘multiculturalism’ and ‘diversity’), but it’s the tone the msm takes reporting these stories. It’s like the NYT is saying “aha… Gotcha” each time something like this is reported. Of course its terrible. but so is this: http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/44A395F3-A22D-406F-990E-5A11B2B73DA8.htm
I am very frustrated. frustrated that in a war, atrocities happen. but frustrated too, that I can’t trust the reporters to tell me the news fairly.
ppgaz
What is the “fair” way to tell you that your government deliberately arranges for, or winks at, or turns a blind eye toward torture, as a means to achieving its ends?
Stop lying to yourself, and stop polluting the Internet with such claptrap, Lee.
Jon H
Such outrage would be especially misplaced, considering that the shady members of the UN Human Rights council are, effectively, our subcontractors for torture and interrogation.
Bob Munck
The UN … knows how to say the ‘right’ things, do nothing, and get back to business as usual.
Is there some positive action that you feel the UN could take against our torture and outsourcing of torture? If so, what is it? Should they be sending troops to Gitmo, or raiding our prison camps in Afghanistan?
KC
John, if the American people don’t care, there’s really no reason for outrage. Torture is acceptable, at least if it has the proper gloss on it. You may not like it, neither do I, but that’s what the truth is now.
syn
So, when US soldiers are tortured how many times has the UN stepped up to the podium to condemn such acts?
Jon H
“So, when US soldiers are tortured how many times has the UN stepped up to the podium to condemn such acts?”
Why should they, when it’s US policy too?
Halffasthero
The UN lecturing the U.S. on torturing would carry more weight with me except for the fact that they have let Sudan go to hell with barely lip service for how to fix it. Send it to the U.S. to try and come up with the answer. I will take criticism from our own country, but until the UN starts leveling the field a bit on addressing other countries failures, they are not carrying the moral high ground.
Bruce
Prisoner abuse is a terrible thing. Several inmates have died in the city jail here in Tulsa in the last year. Is that evidence of abuse? Or is it likely that in a large enough body of people that some will die?
Lee
ppgaz–you aren’t very learned in the happenings of war. there i don’t fault you. what’s a ‘claptrap’, and can you get it on ebay?
Cecil Turner
“So far, the only people to pay a price are a few low level enlisted soldiers and one General had a star removed and was able to retire on full pay.”
Not quite. Col Pappas, the MI commander, was fined at NJP, several were relieved and/or reprimanded:
The reason for the apparent double standard is that the officers were only being punished for failing to supervise–there was no evidence the soldiers were told to abuse prisoners. A couple of the enlisted soldiers tried the “just following orders” defense, but the court didn’t buy it:
Karpinski, by the way, appears to’ve just been stupid. She misinterpreted the TACON order to mean the MI unit was in charge of the prison, and told her supervisors to “stay out of the towers” (and went so far as to reprimand one of her senior NCOs who checked on Graner and company).
These posts came highly recommended as particularly convincing, but ISTM you’ve got a couple factual errors, and that undermines your case.
John Cole
Cecil- Only Karpinski was pushed into retirement and only a few low levels have been jailed.
From what I understand, the others are still in the military.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Cecil Turner
“From what I understand, the others are still in the military.”
I’m not sure, but any who were relieved or reprimanded won’t get promoted, so they’ll have to leave fairly soon. In any event, I don’t think most people would say they didn’t “pay a price” just because they didn’t get kicked out of the military.
I’d also point out that in your earlier post you defended Newsweek by saying we should remember “who pulled the trigger.” Consistency suggests the same argument applies here.