Slow down, Andrew:
It’s worrying enough that we find that some Christian fundamentalists have undermined the Air Force Academy. It’s bad enough that some extremists seem to think that this is a good way to win a war of ideas against extremist Islam. But when our own military seems to be advertizing an explicitly Christian identity in Iraq, then it’s time the president took action. Whoever in the marines allowed this tank to be defaced in this way needs to be removed from his post. It’s an outrage – to both the New Testament and to our mission in Iraq.
I think that recently I have as fine-tuned a hair trigger regarding theocratic outbursts as any, and in some cases, may be seeing a bogeyman where none exists, but getting upset about this, as Andy and some have, is a bit much for me to swallow:
Having the “New Testament” taped onto the bore evacuator of an M1A1 is most assuredly not a sign of an impending theocracy, and certainly is not a cause to remove a good Marine from his post. Stating otherwise displays nothing more than a propensity towards hysteria that exceeds even mine and a profound lack of knowledge about the military and the sense of gallows humor that soldiers have.
Tank crewmen have all sorts of names for their tanks, ranging from the inside joke to the borderline obscene, and no one thinks anything of it. I am willing to bet that the guys belong to November company/troop, because all the tanks in my unit (Alpha Troop, 1/11), had names that began with A.
Some of those names included, Anthrax, Armageddon, etc., and at one point in time my tank was briefly named Air Franchek, after my CO who could jump about as high as an M1 Abrams. I remember one tank in Bravo Troop that was named the “Benjamin Dover.” Shorten Benjamin to Ben, then say the full name out loud a few times and imagine seeing it on a massive gun barrel.
While this may be extremely culturally stupid, getting exercised about this would be as dumb as the religious right getting livid about the name my tank operated under briefly:
And that link isn’t safe for work, and neither were any of the pin-ups on the inside of the turret.
ppgaz
It doesn’t get any better than this. Good commentary, and great pinups too.
John, you are blazing new trails in blogdom.
I’m changing my voter registration to Republican tomorrow.
Bob
Wouldn’t it be a mischaracterization that U.S. military power has anything to do with the New Testament? Isn’t the New Testament clearly anti-violent, anti-empire, anti-militaristic? Wasn’t the New Testament about a man of peace who was martyred by an empire?
Where are these poor boys gettin’ their learnin’?
This is sort of like a sequal of “Gandhi,” starring Jet Li. This time it’s personal.
Libertine
Damn!!! A link to Amber Lynn’s site?? Cool…I am liking this site more and more John, LMAO!!! 8-)
tom scott
Good post John. I spent twenty years in the Air Force, 5 years at the Anchorage Police Dept (comupter op) and 12 years with the Alaska Dept of Corrections. I know black humor. A male oriented workplace, etc,. The moment Abu Ghraib broke I said it was bored mid-shifters with a lack of supervision. I worked nearly 20 years of shiftwork in the military. I worked straight swing shift at APD. I worked a weeek of days ( 12 hours daily), a week off, a week of nights (12 hrs) and a week off in corrections. I understood what happens on mid shift. In Alaska we had correctional officers allegedly dress as KKK and go to a black inmates cell after midnight. Does anyone believe that was warden approved? Does anyone believe that Abu Ghraib was Bush approved?
Abu Ghraib was an aberrant behavior that needed to be punished. And it was. And the media outpour continues ad nauseum.
BUT, if I had to guess at New Testament I would say that it referred to a testament to a new warfare, warrior, etc. A testament to their abilities. But it could be biblical but there is no proof of that. I come from a background that is fond of proof.
Andrei
While I agree that Sullivan is asking a bit much in having the marine who christened that tank the New Testament arrested or whatever, I would say it is a situation where you might not want to give people in the Muslim world any more ammo than they need.
Kind of equivalent to the Bush slip up of using the word “crusade” way back when.
In the end, it seems to be a very minor point. However, if guys are laying their lives on the line to fight a war and want to call their tank New Testament, then I’m not going to argue to with them…
But it doesn’t seem like a real smart to do in a war zone like the Middle East.
Kimmitt
Does anyone believe that Abu Ghraib was Bush approved?
Personally? No. But was there a general policy of either tolerating or encouraging the abuse and degradation of inmates and detainees? Yes.
AlanDownunder
If I were serving in Iraq, I wouldn’t want my comrades giving the locals the impression that I was on a crusade.
If it was all-out war like WW2, fine. But this is a battle for hearts and minds. Now that it’s not about WMDs but freedom & democracy, why give the impression the US is a Christian theocracy when trying to steer the place away from Shi-ite theocracy?
The worry is that the crew, their command, USMC PR staff and USMC website staff were all secularly daft, if not religious nutters into the bargain. Was there not an ounce of grey matter between the lot of them?
RW
Okay, a show of hands to the number of people who think Sullivan would’ve been upset had the banner read “New Testament, great. Gay marriage, better!”
No one?
Bueller?
Jokes aside, please folks…..the “we don’t want to upset them” blather is getting old. They freaking kill people because they get incensed that a report of a book was flushed down a toilet. They cut the freaking heads off of people because they don’t like another country’s policies. We should treat others civilly but the likes of Andrew Sullivan pontificating over the concept that our military doesn’t practice political correctness on a high enough plane is almost enough to make me want to puke.
Damn, did no one learn anything from 9/11?
Compuglobalhypermeganet
Wasn’t the New Testament about a man of peace who was martyred by an empire?
No, you’re thinking about Star Wars… :)
The bulk of the New Testament regards the spread of Christianity to new areas of the globe. In that respect, maybe some believe that New Testament wold be a great name for the war against Muslim Extremists.
Losing Faith
“They freaking kill people because they get incensed that a report of a book was flushed down a toilet. They cut the freaking heads off of people because they don’t like another country’s policies.”
So are you lumping in the everyday people of Iraq in with the insurgents or just forgetting about them altogether? That’s who should be considered when looking at this New Testament issue. I don’t understand why so many people can’t draw the parallels and see why this could be very upsetting (and therefore counter-productive) to the everday Muslim citizens of Iraq. That’s where the “war of ideas” is being fought. In the minds of the non-fighting Muslims. This just makes us look more arrogant, inconsiderate and less like the “liberators” we’re claiming to be. That being said, Sullivan’s going over the top a bit. I don’t think a reprimand that severe is in order, but these things should be caught. As far as the “report of a book was flushed down a toilet”; the report is not what set that whole situation off, but considering it was their holy book, it would almost be understandable. I hope mass Bible flushings start up in the Muslim world. Maybe then all the “Christians” will get it a little more. Probably not though since the “Christians” that act like they don’t get it aren’t really Christians anyway.
AlanDownunder
Damn, did no one learn anything from 9/11?
I wish the Prez had learned that a bunch of well-organised nutters did not represent the tens of thousands of ordinary Iraqis killed by his misdirected retaliation.
What was needed was a global police and security force action against terrorists. What we got instead was a war against where they didn’t come from – a war that PNAC had long wanted to wage and for which 9/11 was a convenient excuse.
Ordinary Muslim = terrorist? Pure bigoted sectarian fantasy.
JPS
AlanDownunder:
“Ordinary Muslim = terrorist? Pure bigoted sectarian fantasy.”
Please tell me where the President said this. It seems to me he went out of his way to make the distinction between terrorists and ordinary Muslims, over and over again.
“Islam is a religion of peace”–that ring any bells?
We can debate policy all you like, but don’t put racist words in someone’s mouth, then express righteous horror at their racism.
RW
Okay, now that this site is officially kos pt. deaux, I’ll sign off.
I don’t have time for moonbat lunatics still spouting PNAC blather.
John Cole
What did I miss, Ricky? I am saying that Sully is going overboard- I thought you would agree with THAT.
Grand Moff Texan
Having the “New Testament” taped onto the bore evacuator of an M1A1 is most assuredly not a sign of an impending theocracy
Yes, but it doesn’t inspire much confidence in their bible-reading, either.
The weapon should certainly read “OLD TESTAMENT.”
.
Grand Moff Texan
I don’t have time for moonbat lunatics still spouting PNAC blather.
Posted by RW at May 25, 2005 11:41 AM
The kitchen will be colder without you…
Barry
“Wouldn’t it be a mischaracterization that U.S. military power has anything to do with the New Testament? Isn’t the New Testament clearly anti-violent, anti-empire, anti-militaristic? Wasn’t the New Testament about a man of peace who was martyred by an empire?”
Posted by Bob a
Bob, it’s also about the empire which crucified him, and stepped on meek Christians. A very large, powerful empire – the most powerful seen in that part of the world.
Sound familiar?
AlanDownunder
JPS:
I didn’t attribute Ordinary Muslim = terrorist to the President as you allege. And I’m glad you appear to agree that it is Pure bigoted sectarian fantasy. Some here apparently don’t agree because it’s the basis of their defence of the USMC’s “New Testament” tank name.
JPS
AlanDownunder:
I was about to apologize for misreading you or putting words in your mouth, when I reread your first statement:
“I wish the Prez had learned that a bunch of well-organised nutters did not represent the tens of thousands of ordinary Iraqis killed by his misdirected retaliation.”
You finish by informing us (as if we hadn’t known) that ordinary Muslims are not necessarily terrorists.
So look, I actually am sorry if I read you wrong, but gee whiz, I think it’s not idiotic to read you as suggesting that the Iraq war was indiscriminate retaliation against Muslims, any Muslim will do (we don’t differentiate) for 9/11.
I could try to explain why I take issue with this, but I have the same reaction to “a war that PNAC had long wanted to wage” as Jules had when Marsellus told him he was sending the Wolf.
JPS
One more thing:
“And I’m glad you appear to agree that it is Pure bigoted sectarian fantasy.”
I do, and find the idea as offensive as you do. But I know a hell of a lot fewer people who believe that, than are accused of believing it by people on your side of the fence.
M. Simon
Don’t call it the “Old Testament”. That is offensive to Jews. The proper name is Torah.
M. Simon
Barry said:
“Bob, it’s also about the empire which crucified him, and stepped on meek Christians. A very large, powerful empire – the most powerful seen in that part of the world.
Sound familiar?”
You talikin’ about peace lovin’ tolerant Muslims here?
Joe
If the Military was so right in its actions here then why did they take the website down? I don
HGH
The Marine tank monicker is perfect.
Isn’t it consummately Christian to act the Good Samaritan by liberating and protecting people who were being tortured and killed while the pharisees of the United Nationettes walked on by? You say “Jihad”; I’ll say “Crusade.” Were it not for militant Christianity, charity might have ended with Nero’s watching the last lunch of the lions.
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