There are idiots on every side of the aisle:
A public school prohibited a second grader from singing a religious song at a talent show, prompting a lawsuit Friday alleging violation of the girl
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Sing. Sing A Song
God is in the details:
A public school prohibited a second grader from singing a religious song at a talent show, prompting a lawsuit Friday alleging violation of the girl’s constitutional rights.
A federal judge declined an emergency request t…
Nikki
And Amen!
A child singing a religious song for an audience in a public school is NOT inappropriate. Seems to me we are steadily becoming a nation of morons.
Andrei
Canada? New Zealand would be a better choice, mate.
SeesThroughIt
“At any rate, I am up to here (hand held over my head) with people who find nothing wrong with the Commandant of the Air Force Academy forcing his version of religion on his cadets. Likewise, I am also sick and tired of chuckleheads who think that an 8 year old kid singing a benign religious song is some sort of great threat to the nation.”
I could not possibly agree more.
metalgrid
It gets better once realize one side isn’t any better than the other.
Then again, add this to the growing pile or reasons why it’s better to get rid of government schooling and send your kids to a private school.
dan
Speaking as someone from the other side of the aisle, I must second Nikki’s “Amen”. This sort of BS is what makes people upset with we Democrats. We have got to lighten up about this stuff.
And God is, indeed, awesome.
Rick
I am about to move to Canada and leave all you damned fanatics here to battle each other to death. I am sick of all of you…
John,
If that were truly the case, you’d drop the Comments part of this blog, now wouldn’t you?
Cordially…
AWJ
What happened to common sense?
“Common sense” is to “public school administrator” as “calculus” is to “beagle”. Come on, it’s common knowledge.
JPS
John,
This may risk pissing you off even more, but here goes.
Maybe you should take that break. I’d miss your writing, but you sound like you’re really letting this shit get to you, which can happen when you lose your ability to shrug off idiots.
Yes, there are idiots on every side of the aisle. I’m sick to death, for example, of the people on my side who think liberals are the enemy.*
I’m glad you smack such people around. They deserve it. But then you hear from the people on our side who think you’re a traitor to the Cause. And then you get a Strange New Respect (TM) from folks on the left who think–know!–that conservatives are the enemy, and who are so proud of you that you’re finally starting to see it too.
It’s a recipe for shouting matches. Which are great as long as you’re enjoying them, but it doesn’t really sound like you are.
*: (They’re irritating and usually wrong, but they’re not the enemy.)
JPS
PS: I only write that because of your last paragraph. As Rick points out, it almost sounds like you’re talking to us. (Naaah, couldn’t be.)
Rick
And then you get a Strange New Respect (TM) from folks on the left…
JPS,
Isn’t that the private sector version of the public officials’ Grown In Office (TM) award? Like what Justice Kennedy and Justice Souter got?
Cordially…
Kimmitt
The weird thing is that Clinton promulgated documents which clarify this sort of thing — the administrator had access to information which would allow him to make this decision.
Kimmitt
Er, make it correctly, I mean.
Stormy70
Wingnuts make the blog world go ’round, do dah do dah!
JG
I remember being 8 years old and not caring one bit what anyone was singing about in a talent show. You could’ve sung about the glory of the Reich and neither me or any of my friends would have been paying attention anyway.
ppgaz
Wingnuts R or L, and blogs, go together like a horse and carriage.
When I was in school we were always singing songs like Onward Christian Soldiers, which is about the most un-Christian song I have ever sung.
Anyway, I turned out to be a mortal enemy of religious fundamentalism and Dobsonites.
So you see, songs are not going to make the world go much one way or the other.
Jeff
I agree, it’s just a song. Big deal.
Not just that, but….IF THE DEVIL DOESN’T LIKE IT HE CAN SIT ON A TACK..OW..SIT ON TACK..OW..SIT ON A TACK!!!!!
Mr Furious
Damn straight, John. I hate this crap. If the school assigned the chorus that song, that’s a problem. If a student were to lead a prayer from the stage, that would probably still be a problem. But this? Gimme a break.
I suppose there might be a slippery slope argument where a bunch of religious students would all pick hyms and hijack a public school talent show, but until that’s the case, STFU.
Same goes for the valedictorian who wanted to thank Jesus Christ in her speech [link]. Fine. Her speech was submitted, the content was pretty benign, in my opinion, and the school should back off. Every freaking athlete who wins anything starts out by “thanking my Lord Jesus Christ,” so, I don’t think this is going to have a dramatic impact on anyone.
Lighten up and/or shut up, people.
the other jeff
Oh, and by the way, while we’re taking up government time with these issues, there’s a war on, there’s terrorists to stop, there’s a budget to balance, maybe, and so on. Priorities…
Ted Barlow
When you’re right, you’re right, and you’re right. I don’t honestly know if we used to be more tolerant of each other, but it’s the only way we can live.
Personally, I think everyone should take more breaks, but that’s just me.
JPS
Ted:
“I don’t honestly know if we used to be more tolerant of each other,”
I think it was Sgt Stryker who wrote (I am quoting roughly, and absolutely not referring to any of present company in doing so):
“One thing about 2005–all the assholes seem to have decided, ‘What the hell, let’s just go for it.'”
Oh, Rick: You got it, but I’m pretty sure I stole “Strange New Respect” somewhere. Plagiarism is the sincerest form of flattery, and since I can’t remember who said that, I’ll just pretend it’s my own.
Shawn
It’s sad that the fringes of both right and left make everyone else miserable. I feel a good deal of sympathy for school administrators in these times. Let the girl sing her song and the anti-religion nuts scream bloody murder. Don’t let the girl sing her song and the pro-religion nuts scream bloody murder. While the rest of us mostly couldn’t give a crap one way or the other.
I long for this country to be reasonable and sane again, too.
Dave Ruddell
I am about to move to Canada and leave all you damned fanatics here to battle each other to death.
While we’d love to have you, John, I’m a fraid a relocation wouldn’t do much for your sanity. The concentration of crazies and idiots is the same.
Nikki
While the rest of us mostly couldn’t give a crap one way or the other.
Personally, I believe that if people would pay more attention to those of us who don’t give a crap and stop trying so hard to cater to the few who do, most of us would find our lives much less stressful.
caleb
This episode related by John is an example of what happens when the “slippery slope” arguement becomes so prevelent on both sides of the poiltical discourse.
metalgrid
The problem seems to be that those of us who don’t give a crap don’t end up making the most noise even though we’re probably the majority.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that..
benchley
go ahead and move to canada…you’ll find that the place is filled with the sort of folk that leads you to think that the dear Lord tilted the continent and all the loose nuts and fruitcakes rolled north, just as if they were marbles….
Jeff
Mr Furious made reference to athletes thanking Jesus every time they win something.
I agree with everything John said in this post, but one thing i’d be willing to get behind is government banning athletes from thanking God if they’re playing in a publicly funded stadium.
The Eagles used to have a WR named James Thrash and even if he caught a two yard pass on 3rd and 15, he’d still get up pointing at the sky for ten seconds.
I’d vote for anyone, regardless of party, who put forth legislation banning that.
(Just so nobody gets too pissed off here, i’m being sarcastic. I don’t really think they should ban it. Well, maybe not.)
BumperStickerist
my observation after 4 years of watching my son’s public school band/chorus concerts is that religion is fine, so long as it’s not in English and does not involve that Jesus-fellow.
KC
I agree John, people are getting way too sensitive about some of this stuff. That being said, I can understand the superintendent’s concerns a little. She was probably not overly worried about the content of the song per se, but how people would react to it when they heard it sung at a school event. I bet by not letting the girl sing it, she was trying to avoid accusations of religious partisanship and refereeing shouting matches between parents of differing religions. This doesn’t make her decision right, and obviously she’s going to be taking heat from some in the Christian right for it, but it does illuminate the difficulties public administrators face in these hyper-sensitive times. No matter what she decided, she’d probalby be in the same situation.
KC
I agree John, people are getting way too sensitive about some of this stuff. That being said, I can understand the superintendent’s concerns a little. She was probably not overly worried about the content of the song per se, but how people would react to it when they heard it sung at a school event. I bet by not letting the girl sing it, she was trying to avoid accusations of religious partisanship and refereeing shouting matches between parents of differing religions. This doesn’t make her decision right, and obviously she’s going to be taking heat from some in the Christian right for it, but it does illuminate the difficulties public administrators face in these hyper-sensitive times. Lets face it, no matter what she decided, she’d be taking heat for it. Truly sad.
KC
Oops, sorry.
porkrind
Please don’t take a break. Let the fire burn and let it burn bright.
The real problem is that not enough people get pissed off, they just sit there and take it. Every time I start to rant, people just roll their eyes but DO NOTHING!
If some of your angst rubs off, we’ll all be better off for it.
Rick
JPS,
I recognized the phrase, because I am old enough to have witnessed and remember the (small c) creation.
Cordially…
P.S. Without Googling further, I believe Tom Bethell was on Jim Garrison’s team “investigating” the JFK assassination. And quit. Correction(s) welcome, unless it’s to claim Oliver Stone was really onto something.
JG
Hey John, if you are going to take a break I have to recommend Jamaica. I just got back from 5 kick ass days in Sandals Negril and 2 slightly less awesome days in Sandals Montego Bay (having a girlfriend in the travel industry rocks :D). I’ve been home two weeks and so far nothing political has pissed me off. I didn’t even get mad when my dog ate my couch while I was gone. And before youo ask, No I didn’t smoke a thing while I was down there. I did however have to say ‘No tanks mon’ a lot. LOL
James Emerson
Reading between the lines (the story’s not yours), the controversy over an 8YO singing a religious song seems to be more about her Mom than herself. I mean really! What 8YO would want her classmates to be pointing fingers at her on the playground and taunting her with mock lyrics about some awesome god raining stuff down on them. Mom had to have known that this song sung in a public school setting had the potential to ignite a controversy. But NOOOO…Mom had to embarass her child. It was exactly this kind of religiosity that led me to escape from the familial fundamentalists cluthces at an early age.
Seems to me the best way to deal with this kind of problem is to either disallow all religious songs from being sung at all school events, and risk being highlighted on the 700 Club, or to allow all religious songs for the same, including the Hari Krishnas, druids, muslims, jews, and assorted devil worshipers, and risk being highlighted on the 700 Club. At least then all the religious factions could be officially allowed just as they are required to be allowed in the Califronia Penal System. Seems like a fair solution…operating the schools like prisons.
On the other hand…Costa Rica is always nice.
brenda
This is just sad. Everyone is so political these days. I think it all started with talk radio. They found out they could get an audience as long as the host was nuts. Then it spun off into cable TV.
smijer
I am the biggest secularist and church/state separation proponent that I personally know. I hoped it would do John Cole’s heart good to know that I agree with him whole-heartedly about the stupidity of the school administrator who woulnd’t let the girl sing her song in the talent show. That’s ridiculous…
Turn about’s fair play. As the world’s most reasonable conservative, Cole often does my heart a lot of good.
Mike S
It sure is nice to find a Republican I agree with more than not. I was beginning to lose hope.
To the comment above about “forcing” a choir to sing religious songs. Most choral arangements are religious. And a large portion that aren’t is simply crap. The thing is that while you sing it there isn’t really a lot of thought about what the song is saying as much as what it sounds like.
I sang throughout my entire time in school. There were times when Orthadox Jews could not sing a song because of the mention of Jesus. Not one of them complained and every one else respected their choice.
We meed to back off on this jihad both for and against religion. Live and let live and maybe we can start working on the real problems facing kids and schools. Maybe making sure kids can read at grade level could be a starting point.
ppgaz
Good discussion, and all that.
Just want to suggest …. slippery slopes don’t exist in a vacuum.
If Dobsonites quit wrongly insisting that not being able to display their religious artifacts in public buildings is an “attack on christianity”, nuts on the other side might not need to act as if the girl’s song is a big deal.
Christ, religion, or whatever you think the right icon is for “faith” or “God”, does not need stone tablets in public buildings to defend christianity.
Stone tablets in public buildings are not worth a plug nickel. So why try to force them down anyone’s throat? Because it’s about power, and winning, not about faith, or christianity, at all.
When it becomes about winning, then the little girl’s song looks like a threat.
The song is not a threat, and asking the religious to please put up their own buildings to display their tablets is not a threat either.
Sooner or later, reason will return. In the meantime, we are stuck with ….the meantime.
JoshA
I’m not sure the crazies of the left would vanish if the crazies of the right were suddenly raptured or whatever. Both sides have the ability to create enemies and threats where none exist, although I think Dobson and company excel at it.
Ben
How about a little disdain for the parents that are suing? Denying the little girl the right to sing is stupid… it is even more stupid and pathetic for the parents to sue… to teach their daughter that everytime she doesn’t get what she wants she can file a lawsuit and whine like a big titty baby. Besides, surely any parent in this country today would know better than to choose a religious song… right?
brenda
I wonder how much the parents were involved. It wouldn’t suprize me if the little girls choice of material wasn’t exactly freely chosen
tim
I’m not sure the crazies of the left would vanish if the crazies of the right were suddenly raptured or whatever. Both sides have the ability to create enemies and threats where none exist, although I think Dobson and company excel at it.
I’ve been hoping for the rapture for years. As you note, it only solves half the problem, but then we can just beat the other half to death.
Doug
I have to agree with those who suspect mommy was a bit of a problem. Possibly the type who went out of her way to inject religion into every situation?
But, in any event, with respect to the very important issue of athletes constantly thanking God — they should be required to blame God when something goes wrong.
“Ooh, tough loss. What are your thoughts on the game.”
“Well, things were going fine until Jesus made me fumble.”
ppgaz
And He did, too. When the ball popped loose, the fans could be heard to mutter, “Jesus!”
KC
Ha ha.
The Disenfrachised Voter
Speaking as an agnostic, and a strong believer in the Seperation of Church and state (I even think “Under God” should be removed from the pledge), I see nothing wrong with this girl singing “Awesome God” at a school show. She has every right to do so. I’d really like to meet the people who think she shouldn’t be able to sing the song, because I’d like to hear their explanation as to why they think that way.
I always enjoy reading your blog John, keep up the good work.
RW
Thanks for the link, John.
Guest
The thing is, John, this is not just politics – the school is protecting itself from a potential constitutional violation. Having worked on some school ceremony + 1st amendment issues, I can say that school administration was acting wisely here.
The problem for the administration is that if they review and approve the songs the students sing, then they run the risk of “endorsing” a religion by becoming involved in the process. This arises frequently in graduation cases. The key for the administration is to not pre-screen the songs, then the students can sing whatever they want. The catch is, no administration wants to give students this kind of carte blanche. So we’re stuck with the situation where if the school wants to have control over the content of its programs, then it must deal with the constitutional restrictions that accompany having that kind of control.
ppgaz
Ah, the Pledge.
Why is the government in the business of prescribing a pledge, and dictating its language, at all?
Where is the Constitutional authority for it?
Why do citizens of a country like this think they need a government-approved pledge …. and then fight over its construction?
The Disenfrachised Voter
Heh, funny you mentioned that ppgaz. I agree with you about getting rid of the pledge. It is nothing more than deliberate nationalistic programming in my opinion. However, I don’t see that happening anytime soon, so I’d first like to see the pledge go back to its original verses where there was no mention of god at all. The words “under god” were added in the 1950’s because of the red scare, as I’m sure you know.
buermann
I take it nobody looked at that phrase “Our God is an awesome God!” and thought of the implied corallary “And Your God(s)(lessness) is a lame God(s)(lessness)!”?
If anybody in the audience was offended for whatever inane reason and sued the school they’d almost certainly win, I don’t see how it’s the school’s fault for being anal about it in the first place.
If you’ve got a problem its with the scope of the establishment clause, which ought to have an addenum excluding cute little girls and puppy dogs.
ppgaz
Yes, the details escape me, but basically Pres. Eisenhower acted somewhat out of character (he was a true conservative, as I read him) and went along with the change as a way to get some red-scarers off his back.
What strikes me as odd is: Americans cherish their independence and have a natural distrust of big government. So why do they just bend over and let the government tell them how to recite a pledge? Are we not free? I can say, or not say, any pledge I like. I don’t need no stinking approved pledge, and I don’t need the government telling my kids how to say a pledge, or even telling them that they “should” say a pledge.
If somebody came into the room and said, you are required to say a pledge, my answer would be two words, the second of which is “you.”
Richard Bottoms
Ahh, I love the nostalgia for a simpler time in America.
You know the old tolerant days when my father couldn’t vote because he’s black and rode in the Jim Crow car back from Washington after getting his lieutenant bars pinned on in WWII.
Those pre-Vietnam days of consesus and of Emmett Till getting lynched.
And the days when police could enforce the law like men instead of wimps and beat a confession from blacks if they had to.
You mean those good old days?
Thanks, I’ll take the occasional excesses and foolishness of today because unlike my old man, I can vote, and sit any damn place I please in public. It is all due to some of those same annoying gadflies buzzing about today.
Deal with it.
ppgaz
Richard, you mean ….
the good old days, before politicians learned and practiced the art of turning those masked dysfunctions into marketing opportunities, and lines of division along which to carve out coalitions?
I wonder what people think is going on when they listen to the Limbaughs and the Sharptons? the manipulations are so obvious and so blatant.
In the good old days, the dysfunctions were crude, and kept out of polite conversation. Today, they are slick and smooth, and sold the same way they sell Levitra: Slick presentations, repeated over and over.
Richard Bottoms
Ahh, I love the nostalgia for a simpler time in America.
You know the old tolerant days when my father couldn’t vote because he’s black and rode in the Jim Crow car back from Washington after getting his lieutenant bars pinned on in WWII.
Those pre-Vietnam days of consesus and of Emmett Till getting lynched.
And the days when police could enforce the law like men instead of wimps and beat a confession from blacks if they had to.
You mean those good old days?
Thanks, I’ll take the occasional excesses and foolishness of today because unlike my old man, I can vote, and sit any damn place I please in public. It is all due to some of those same annoying gadflies buzzing about today.
Deal with it.
Richard Bottoms
>In the good old days, the >dysfunctions were crude, and >kept out of polite conversation.
I’m sure Emmett Till appreciated the distinction while he was being tortured to death.
Three days later, Till’s body was discovered in the Tallahatchie River. Its was weighted down by a seventy-five pound cotton gin fan that was tied around Till’s neck with barbed wire. His face was so mutilated that when Wright identified the body, he could only do so based on the ring that Till had been wearing.
http://afroamhistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa021703a.htm
Good old days my ass.
ppgaz
That’s called a whoosh, old buddy.
Brian
Perhaps she should piss on a Bible. That would go over just fine.
The Disenfrachised Voter
Oh give me a break Brian. Take your ridiculous comments to Free Republic, where the wacko’s there agree with them.
In case you didn’t notice this is blog meant for thinking conservatives, not nutjob ones like yourself.