In the grand tradition of reactionary and humorless feminism, Shakespeare’s Sister didn’t recognize that this post titled “Why Democrats Can’t Win” was supposed to be a joke and a light-hearted jab at all the parties involved:
Democrats Can’t Win Because of Me, Or so I’m told. Me and the rest of “the crowd who dares not shave their legs.”
Just a thought, but perhaps a bigger part of the reason Democrats can
ppgaz
What’s funny is that in this medium (the big one, not the particular blog) nobody really listens to anybody else.
If some people spent as much time listening to others as they do lecturing on the proper interpretation of posts ….
Maybe part of the problem is that some people don’t think that having the dominant political party declare war on its own country is funny? I don’t think it’s funny.
My posts are laced with humor, sometimes, and sometimes I write through clenched teeth. You know, just like you do. If I’m misunderstood, that’s generally my responsibility. Of course, I don’t own the blog, so I don’t get to make my own rules up as I go along. I post at the pleasure of the site.
But the bottom line for me is, one takes the risk, when posting to a topic that gets people riled up on one side or on both, that a tossed-off chuckler will be taken seriously …. or vice versa.
Actually, the Kos pie kerfuffel is amusing. Marcos himself has waved it off as a tempest in a teapot.
If anyone is keeping score, the Kossack community pretty much holds Balloon-Juice in high regard, and says so with regularity. As a matter of fact, that’s how I found this blog in the first place.
“Hell hath no fury like a feminist scorned.” I just coined that, all by myself. Speaking as one of the rabid Dems here, let me say …. I gave up on the feminist bloc a long time ago. I think they’re mostly full of shit.
Sojourner
I consider myself a feminist and I like to think I’m not full of shit. Perhaps you’re referring to the radical wing of the feminist party. :-)
ppgaz
As a bloc, which I have to admit, doesn’t really exist any more, I stick to my guns. No refelction on individual feminists, though.
Of course, I was referring to the feminist wing of the radical party :-0
So, here we are in 2005 …. what exactly is feminism all about these days? Seriously, now that you mention it, I’ve averted my eyes from it for a while now.
slickdpdx
The partisan are often a little tone deaf. In their defense, slightly, is the fact that sarcasm doesn’t always come across as clearly in the written word.
Birkel
I’ve always thought rugged individualism and meritocracy were grand feminist principles. Thus, I count myself a feminist in the best traditions in the movement.
Sadly, I think the radical feminists have excused themselves from those two fine principles.
Dave
I think a lot of the less moderate feminists are still upset at kos for slamming NARAL for endorsing Chafee, which does seem to be a pretty stupid move on NARAL’s part.
carot
I noticed how Fox asked Dean if he hates white Christians, now the Democrats will be the anti Christian party as well as the ones who think Christians are lazy and don’t work.
It reminds me of an old Henny Youngman joke where the patient says to the doctor “It hurts when I do this” and the doctor says “Well don’t do that”.
If Democrats don’t like what happens when they say these things they should stop saying them. Better to say nothing and be thought a fool than open it and remove all doubt.
Kimmitt
I noticed how Fox asked Dean if he hates white Christians…
Well, at least they’re doing away with the fiction that they are anything other than a propaganda arm of the RNC.
carot
“Well, at least they’re doing away with the fiction that they are anything other than a propaganda arm of the RNC.”
This misses the whole point. You don’t slander white christians and then ask them to vote for you in the next breath. This is the equivalent of Republicans calling Blacks lazy and evil, then asking for their votes.
The issue isn’t the character of the right’s representatives, but the nature of the right’s ideology.
The right is like the mythical Hydra. It doesn’t matter how many of its heads you hack off by trying to get rid of its leaders. You can get rid of Bush, Cheney, Dobson, Santorum, Delay and other just as bad will take their place, the Hydra will grow more heads. The Hydra is the problem not the heads.
Remember how they got rid of Trent Lott and were so happy, and then Frist was just as bad?
And let’s say for example that the Republicans only had for its representatives nice polite people would it make the slightest bit of difference to the problems they are creating? No.
It might make the Dems feel less wounded but it would change nothing. The only thing that will change things is if the Republicans moderate their policies, but they are under no pressure from the Democrats to do this. In fact they get help whenever they are trouble because the Dems end up slandering the swing voters, calling them lazy, evil, etc.
The only chance the Republicans have to change is if its own members realise they have gone too far to the right, and decide to endure the slandering from the Democrats and not vote, or vote for the people who keep calling them lazy, stupid, and evil. This is the position John Cole is in.
This is because the Dems never accuse the Republicans of being too far to the right. Try and list the number of times they actually accused Bush and Cheney of being too conservative in the last election.
You’d think the Dems don’t care how far to the right the Republicans drift as long as they are nice while they do it.
Instead of actually making the Republican extremism the issue they Primal Scream all their hatred at the swing voters.
And that’s why the Dems can’t win because they no longer disagree enough with right wing extremism to say so. The issue for example with Social Security wasn’t privatisation but the politicial extreism behind it.
Kiganshee
Deaniacs take note: carot is 100% right. Democrats would be a way more attractive alternative to increasingly right-wing policy if they weren’t insulting me all the time. You can argue that Dean’s comments pull swing voters into the fold, but as a person in that position I tell you that YOU ARE WRONG. Straight-up insults like that just suggest that you have nothing real to say.
carot
Just imagine if the Republicans talked about gays, Jews, or blacks the way Dean talks about the Republican base.
There is nothing new in politics or the political spectrum. Every kind of political idea falls somewhere on it, from extreme left to extreme right. Calling swing voters evil or stupid is not a political argument. They want to be convinced who can run the country best, the left or the right.
The current situation is a classic extreme right wing situation, that has common up for thousands of years, it’s called a coalition of the Princes and Priests.
The wealthy and royalty/aristocrats ally themselves and use the moral authority of the church to keep power. This was how the Church held power through the Middle Ages.
Is it the right policy for now? That is the question but the Dems won’t ask it, they seem unable to comprehend the current situation politically and all they have left is insults and tantrums.
If the policies are increasingly right wing the Dems should say so in every sound bite. Most people have a belief that extremist left or right policies are bad for a country, but if the Dems won’t point this out then you can be sure the Republicans won’t say anything.
Actually they do the other way. Every election they put the Dems under the microscope, on trial as being too Liberal to Govern.
Can anyone name a single situation when the Dems claimed the Republicans were too Conservative to Govern? If they don’t believe this then why are they even bothering contesting elections?
Fledemaus
You don’t slander white christians and then ask them to vote for you in the next breath. This is the equivalent of Republicans calling Blacks lazy and evil, then asking for their votes.
Calling white christians “Republicans” is slander? You learn something new every day.
carot
Dean and other Dems slander Republicans all the time, then when you say they are mainly White Christians it implies the slander is about White Christians. Just recently for example he called Republicans lazy, so now White Christians are lazy. When he says there are no minorities in the party except working in the kitchen he calls White Christians bigots and snobs.
All of this implies Dems are slandering White Christians and then wondering why they don’t vote for them.
None of this ties in politics which is why people vote for parties. It sounds more like Gollum “you stole the preciouss election and we hates you” and like Gollum a minute later crawling back with insincere backpedalling.
People don’t care if Republican leaders are flawed, they care if their policies are right or not. They don’t care whether Bush was AWOL like they didn’t care Clinton was an adulterer.
What Dems fail to do is what the Republicans do consistently and that is to avoid personal attacks and tie all negatives about Democrats into symptoms of being too Liberal.
If Dems are too strident say about some judges then the Republicans say this is evidence they are too Liberal. If they are too Liberal on this then people wonder what else they are too liberal on. Maybe if they are too liberal on ANWAR they might be too liberal on Al Qaeda and prison terms.
That’s why labels are important and why the Dems fail when they slander Republicans instead of tying their behavior into being a symptom of being too Conservative.
For example if Bush is too conservative on then environment this implies he might then be considered to be too conservative in defence. If he’s too conservative on social security this implies he might be too conservative to balance the budget.
Once you get the label to stick, it sticks on all their policies. Once they paint the Dems as too liberal on one thing then they stand tainted as too liberal on everything.
But the Dems don’t do this, when they attack the Republicans they do it on single issues and certain people. So attacking Delay proves (yawn) that some Republican leaders are flawed but since no attempt is made to show this as a symptom of being too right wing voters don’t conclude the party is too far to the right. It just means the party has some bad apples and all the Republicans have to do is imply Dems do it too.
When the Republicans try and get rid of Social Security this doesn’t hurt them on any other issue because the Dems don’t imply this is an integral part of simply being too right wing.
They should say the Republicans are too conservative to govern because of social security privatisation not that they are too Christian!
Sojourner
carot:
“What Dems fail to do is what the Republicans do consistently and that is to avoid personal attacks and tie all negatives about Democrats into symptoms of being too Liberal.”
You can’t be serious. The Repubs are the party of Lee Atwater, Newt Gingrich, and Karl Rove. These folks turned dirty politics into an art form.
Hell, the Repubs have no qualms about smearing their own candidates. Remember all the attacks on McCain by the Bush attack dogs?
You need to get out more.
Rick
The Repubs are the party of Lee Atwater, Newt Gingrich, and Karl Rove. These folks turned dirty politics into an art form.
Soj.,
I’ll tell you a little GOP insider secret:
Back in the late-60s and early 70s, our politburo got tired of lame Johnny Carson, John Wayne and Jack Benny impersonations. So they switched to impersonations of Dick Tuck, Tip O’Neill, and James Carville.
Thus, the trio *you* cited are just derivative acts.
Cordially…
P.S. The point is that politics is rough play, and your party is far from “more sinned against.” Really.
carot
“Hell, the Repubs have no qualms about smearing their own candidates. Remember all the attacks on McCain by the Bush attack dogs?”
Republicans only smear in ways that aren’t true as a bait and switch. Then the Dems spend all their time trying to disprove the stories instead of discussing the politics of the right.
For example Kerry ran on a platform of integrity as a Veteran. Bad move, if the public cared about the integrity of a candidate half the Republicans would be gone. Then the Republicans made up some lies about his integrity and Kerry spent most of his time trying to prove and disprove things no one cared about. Obviously if people didn’t care if Bush went AWOL they wouldn’t care if Kerry was a good soldier or not. Kerry’s policies were an afterthought.
When Republicans criticise things that are true they paint them as a symptom the Dems are too liberal to govern. Then the Dems spend 1/3 the time ditching everything they stand for to try and shed the label of liberalism. Then they spend 1/3 of the time trying to prove they aren’t the kind of people portrayed in the smears. For example Hillary will now spend the next 6 months saying she wasn’t raped instead of focusing on the politics of the right.
The final third of course is spent calling Republican voters names for not voting Democratic, such as evil, stupid, liars, corrupt, fascist, homophobes, racist, heartless, warmongers.
And no time at all is spent on the only thing they should be talking about, which is the policies of the Republicans, and if they are too far to the right. The impression is that the Dems don’t think the Republicans are too right wing, they just bargain too hard on some issues, and have a potty mouth sometimes.
Maybe they should change the name of the party to “Just like the Republicans but nicer”.
But feel free to keep trying to taunt and slander swing voters into voting Democratic on the platform of “I wasn’t really raped”, “Rush Limbaugh is a big fat liar” and “I really did go to Cambodia at Xmas”.
You won’t win a single vote with it.
Kimmitt
And no time at all is spent on the only thing they should be talking about, which is the policies of the Republicans, and if they are too far to the right.
You have to be kidding. The Democratic Party has been relentless in discussing the insanity of Bush’s fiscal policy as well as his proposed Social Security policy.
I mean, didn’t we just almost shut down the Senate over whether or not Bush could appoint some truly insane judges?
meanwhile
Meanwhile,real people in this country need some help paying for their health care. Wages are going down (unless you are a CEO). Gas prices are going up. Schools are going to hell in a handbasket.
The people of this country would very much appreciate it if members of both parties could grow the fuck up and work on solving the real problems of the American people.
Thank you.