Might be time for another invasion of Europe:
Who’s funding the insurgents in Iraq? The list of suspects is long: ex-Baathists, foreign jihadists, and angry Sunnis, to name a few. Now add to that roster hard-core Euroleftists.
Turns out that far-left groups in western Europe are carrying on a campaign dubbed Ten Euros for the Resistance, offering aid and comfort to the car bombers, kidnappers, and snipers trying to destabilize the fledgling Iraq government. In the words of one Italian website, Iraq Libero (Free Iraq), the funds are meant for those fighting the occupanti imperialisti. The groups are an odd collection, made up largely of Marxists and Maoists, sprinkled with an array of Arab emigres and aging, old-school fascists, according to Lorenzo Vidino, an analyst on European terrorism based at The Investigative Project in Washington, D.C. “It’s the old anticapitalist, anti-U.S., anti-Israel crowd,” says Vidino, who has been to their gatherings, where he saw activists from Austria, Denmark, Germany, and Italy. “The glue that binds them together is anti-Americanism.” The groups are working on an October conference to further support “the Iraqi Resistance.” A key goal is to expand backing for the insurgents from the fringe left to the broader antiwar and antiglobalization movements.
Unbelievable.
Stormy70
Europe has problems, which, historically, does not bode well. I hope we are watching them closely.
p.lukasiak
yawn….
I mean really. Is there any evidence that this campaign is in the least bit effective? There will always be people on the fringe, but if it makes you feel more self-righteous to rail about it, there is nothing to be done.
Stormy70
Whatever, I’m supposed to let Europe’s funding of our enemies go by? Europe needs to clean up their own backyard before they tell me to clean up mine. Maybe they could concentrate all that anti-American energy into clamping down on the anti-Semitism that is rearing its ugly head again. Or figure out a way to get their economy moving again.
DecidedFenceSitter
Why not Stormy? They’ve let the fact that our private citizens fund terrorism slide by for years, why not tit for tat?
And I’m speaking of funding Sinn Fein and the IRA during the 70’s and 80’s.
Stormy70
Maybe you should censure Ted Kennedy for funding those terrorists if you are so concerned about it. Most of the people funding the IRA and Sein Fein were all those democrats in the East.
So you want to let the funding of terrorists that kill women and children in Iraq slide by? Nice. Does your hetred of Bush know no bounds? Do you hate the War so much, you’d excuse leftist groups in Europe of funding our enemies? Quick, find a way to put the blame back on America.
p.lukasiak
And I’m speaking of funding Sinn Fein and the IRA during the 70’s and 80’s.
lets not forget US citizens funding terrorism directed at Cuba for years and years (which one suspects is still ongoing, since we are harboring at least two known anti-cuban terrorists on US soil at the moment….)
Aaron
Nice shot at Ted Kennedy, Stormy.
I never understood why someone would fund the IRA and why the heck it wasn’t stopped by our government.
Except the Irish vote of course. And now the Cuban vote.
DecidedFenceSitter
*Shrug* Common Enemies make for strange bedfellows. Otherwise, how to do you defend the US intervening on the behalf of dictators and other authoritarian regimes when the common enemy of the Soviet Union and Communism.
I doubt anyone in the government at that time went, “Oh boy, now I get to support a dictator!” However, the realpolitik at the time, in their eyes, required that they swallow hard, I hope they did at least, and make allies.
This is much the same IMO, the same tactics, the same realpolitik bedfellows.
DecidedFenceSitter
Does my hatred of Bush know no bounds? No, I really don’t hate him. I despise his short-sighted policies. I defended the war Afghanistan as necessary, but I feared he’d get bored when it got tough; and I defended the war in Iraq for my own personal humanitarian reasons (cause Saddam was a bad, bad man); and yet, my worst fears about post-war Iraq planning were made true. I’m seeing the same sort of group-think, small-group decision making problems that led to the Bay of Pigs fiasco.
Do I approve of the giving of money? No. But then again, to them I am the enemy. But I can analyticaly draw comparisons from their activities to ones undertaken both by the State and by the private citizen here.
DecidedFenceSitter
Aaron,
As far as why one would support the IRA? Because there is a foreign invader on the homeland soil.
Let’s play a what-if. You are in England, and Canada invades and takes the North East, Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont, citing a variety of reasons for it.
If someone came to you and asked you for 50 dollars to help liberate and reclaim your heritage wouldn’t you be inclined to help? I can honestly say that I know I would. (The fact that I’m from Vermont originally is probably not incidental to this.)
Okay, triple post score.
Rocky Smith
Fence sitter-
You sound as if you believe we are in Iraq for the purposes of keeping it as a US property. Surely you aren’t that stupid.
BillR
Rocky-
“You sound as if you believe we are in Iraq for the purposes of keeping it as a US property. Surely you aren’t that stupid.”
of course, the fact that we are building several PERMANENT
military bases has no bearing on this. I wonder why this gets so little mention in the MSM as well as on blogs
DecidedFenceSitter
I expect to be there for 5-10 years. Plus it doesn’t matter what *I* believe. It’s what the natives of that area believe, and apparently, some of them believe that we aren’t going to be leaving in the next generation.
But yeah, if we are going to stay until things are stable and secure, as apparently 60% of Americans want, then I see us being there for 5 (which is what two years away) to more than 10 years depending on the relative stability of the country. Right now I’d be betting on 10+, as long as we aren’t settling for “Yup, this is secure. Really,” but instead waiting until it’s actually stable and secure.
Brad R.
Can we please keep in mind that these people are fringe wackos and don’t represent Europe as a whole, por favor?
DecidedFenceSitter
But Braaaaadddd that’s no FUN! :)
Stormy70
Brad R. – Spoilsport! Over-generalizations are the stock in trade here. ;^)
Mr.Ortiz
Err, I consider myself a lefty, but I can’t see defending this on any level. A lot of what I’m reading here sounds like the right-winger defense of theocrats, “oh, they’re just a small part of the party.” And if you counter this by saying that far-right has more clout in the US than the far-left does, that’s the “our torture chambers aren’t as bad as Saddam’s” defense.
If you’re against this war it should be because you want peace. Funding the insurgency does nothing to promote peace.
Some of the people involved here are from coalition nations. I wonder if they can be arrested for aiding the enemy under their countries’ laws.
Geek, Esq.
In a few years, these Cretino-Left dinosaurs will be extinct anyways.
I mean, does anyone listen to the rhetoric of Galloway and Chomsky and think “Now there’s an intellectually vibrant movement!”
Leftists acting like reactionaries. Pathetic.
Darrell
*Shrug* Common Enemies make for strange bedfellows. Otherwise, how to do you defend the US intervening on the behalf of dictators and other authoritarian regimes when the common enemy of the Soviet Union and Communism….This is much the same IMO, the same tactics, the same realpolitik bedfellows
Nice. Tell us fencesitter, how are the US and allied coalition a “common enemy” of both Europeans and Al Queda? Tell us, what is the ‘realpolitik’ between those bedfellows. The US, in supporting certain dictators during the cold war was making a ‘lesser evil’ type decision, supporting a dictator to prevent the fall of that country to communism. Because although the dictators we supported were no angels, these countries were nothing like the human disasters of the countries which had fallen to communism (see N. Korea, Cuba, Cambodia and E. Europe under communism).
Reading fencesitter’s comparison, it’s clear he is saying that Europeans are not acting so unreasonably in their support of Al Queda & Baathist terrorists.. the terrorists are merely the lesser evil compared to the US, making a ‘realpolitik’ alliance, like in the Cold War.. at least in the minds of some Europeans.. and leftists here in the US it seems.
Personally, I think DecidedFenceSitter’s comparison is despicable, but typical of many leftists. He is of course, excusing and downplaying those Europeans supporting real enemies of the US…murderous enemies of Western civilization really. No exaggeration needed regarding fencesitter’s comments, because excusing and downplaying our enemies is precisely what he and others on the left have done and are doing. They’ve told us the head choppers are “minutemen”, now fencesitter elaborates further, excusing and explaining away those supporting islamofascist
terrorists as merely a ‘realpolitik’ alliance like in the Cold War.
Think I’m exaggerating? Re-read his comments for yourself. Don’t look for many leftists to denounce the European support of Al Queda and Baathists, look for them to make excuses for them as Fencesitter has done. But don’t dare question their patriotism, ok?
ppgaz
Amen. The only thing that will bring peace would be improving Iraq’s own security forces. Whatever it takes to do that, let’s do it.
Meanwhile, though, I volunteer to spend two years in Paris, researching the problem there. Then, on to Rome. From there, in between bottles of Chianti, I’ll provide you all with regular dispatches replete with details of any anti-American activities that I see.
jami
so y’all are saying that if a foreign power, maybe france (gasp!), decided they didn’t like the looks of our last two elections and our international-law-breaking leader so they invaded, you’d just sit there? nice.
i can understand where the resistance is coming from. but if what they want is our troops out, they have to realize that the main criteria for us is for them to stop killing their own people!
course, y’all’d probably blow up some liberals in my scenario, right?
Stormy70
ppqaz – for a true fact finding tour, it must be bipartisan. I will volunteer to go with you, but we better swing by the French Riviera, lots of anti-American activity there.
Really going to work now. Bye.
ppgaz
Uh, show me the money, please. Actual funds, actual “aid and comfort.”
Two tons of medicine? Is that a joke?
How do you provide aid and comfort to a suicide car bomber?
You know, there are somewhere around 6 billion people on earth who are not Americans. Do you suppose that a few of those people might be anti-American, you know, among the 95 percent or so that are not American?
Let’s review. How do you fight a “war on terror” again?
I don’t know which is more absurd: The California National Guard story, where weekend warriors are going to play sleuth, or something …. and this story about …. well, close to nothing, as near as I can tell.
I’m sorry, I missed it …. how DO you fight a war on terror, again? Give me the executive overview, please.
John Cole
I don’t give a shit if 1 pound of aid got through. If I could get my hands on these pukes, I would throttle them. Quit making excuses for the inexcusable.
ppgaz
Sorry, I read my post over again. Where are the “excuses” in the post, please? I don’t find that a nod to reality is an “excuse”. In fact, it isn’t any particular commentary, it’s just a rather obvious conclusion. It’s a big world, with a lot of people in it.
Six billion people out there. How do you fight a “war on terror”, again? I’ve never seen any coherent answer to that question yet, and I’ve been asking it for years.
I understand the anger, but I’m not sure how we go about throttling millions of pukes who don’t like us, John.
On 9-12-01, I was having a phone conversation with my brother, and we were saying, boy we were pissed. Let’s go over there and shoot those motherf-ers for what they did to us.
He said, okay, but who do we shoot? Aside from the fact that it’s a line from the movie “Grapes of Wrath”, it’s a rather relevant question.
Once we stop foaming at the mouth, what then?
Mr.Ortiz
ppgaz, the amount of impact these people have will be small, perhaps even laughable in the grand scheme of things, but if they only manage to buy one gun for the insurgency, they have blood on their hands as far as I’m concerned.
Darrell
yes ppgaz, because fighting and killing Al Queda, Taliban, and Baathist terrorists and murderers after 9/11 is merely a result of the US “foaming at the mouth”, right? that is your point, no? You seem to have a big problem drawing a hard line against the terrorists, as do a disturbing number of other leftists. Hand wringing like “why do they hate us?” and all.
Mr. Ortiz, to his credit, has no such hesitation in calling a spade a spade.
Quit making excuses for the inexcusable.
That says it all for me.
Mr.Ortiz
Actually, as far as I’m concerned, these people are PART of the insurgency, as much as any Saudi wahabbist sneaking over the border with a kalashnikov, and they should be tried for treason if they’re citizens of a coalition nation. See? We can hate these people and still be liberals. I’m recommending legal action where right-wingers like john want heads to roll!
ppgaz
Yes, a fine rant, but this is all about a couple of trees, and I’m looking for some information about the forest.
The “war on terror”, if there is such a thing (I add the caveat because, as I said, I have never seen a coherent description of such a war), is not about a few crackpots or a few misguided activists here and there.
It’s about the fact that we live in a small world with a very large number of people in it, a dangerous percentage of which can and will, given opportunity, employ violence against that part of the world that they despise. They are not organized, they don’t have a real headquarters, they disperse like cockroaches do when you turn on the kitchen light. They are fanatical. That makes them beyond unreasonable. There are a lot of them, and they are resourceful and they improvise very effectively.
Okay, we can stand here and shout “die, you bastards.”
Once we get that out of our system, how do you fight a war on terror?
DecidedFenceSitter
Actually, if you read, none of that is excuse. It is an explanation. It’s an attempt to move beyond the knee-jerk, “kill em all”, and figure out why. And once again, it’s not Europeans, it’s the far-left groups, anti-israeli groups, the authoritarian groups, and finally the anti-US groups.
And also it depends the on the aid given. If it’s for guns, then that’s wretched.
However, the only non-blog I can find is their own report of sending medical aid, “About two tons of medicine are going to be sent to the Iraqi province of al-Anbar, . . .This aid will be distributed to everyone who is in need” (General Flakiness eliminated)
But I’ll take it with a grain of salt.
—
And ppgaz, since I’m apparently a flaming all too-lefty now, I’ll go with you, so they can “know their own” and get you into all the best groups.
docG
Well now I am confused. The original post came from the on-line version of U.S. News and World Report that appears to be taken seriously by many of those responding. I thought the MSM had no credibility. Is the new rule that MSM reporting is credible if it agrees with my position, or is it still all biased and wrong?
Beyond the sarcasm, there has long been a significant and active anti-American segment in many European countries, i.e. France, Italy, and others. I trust our intelligence forces are investigating and infiltrating those who fund anti-American terrorism in Europe and elsewhere and cutting off their financial lifeblood. Even if the decision to invade Iraq was misguided (it was), even if the Iraq invasion and occupation is being terribly mismanaged (it is), even if Bush is cynical and dishonest (nope, just immune from feedback and suffering from “knows-the-answers-before-the-questions-are-asked-itis”), aiding and/or encouraging those who have or plan to attack United States citizens is simply wrong.
ppgaz
Since I have to offline for while, Darrell, you’ll be beating your chest for nothing for a little while, but I thought I’d save you some time.
I’ve already given the only answer I know to the Big Question, and it hasn’t changed since 2001. One, you go into Afghanistan and try to get OBL and his butt buddies. You pursue that as best you can. Which is to say, better than we have done so far.
But meanwhile, the next thing you do is, harden the homeland. You agressively and intelligently protect your vulnerabilities, your transportation system, your food supply, your utilities, those sorts of things. We are doing a shitty job of that as far as I am concerned.
Once you really harden the homeland, and hopefully without turning it into a stupid police state, and you are doing your best on the OBL front, then …….
That’s where the trail ends. What next? And when you construct your answer to that part, whatever it is, please explain why your proposed strategy is not to be considered an “experiment” because I don’t know of any successful model already in place and tested out there.
Darrell
FenceSitter, the linked article for this post said:
“But some funds may be buying more deadly stuff; one leader boasted to Vidino that the campaign will send “everything it takes” for the resistance to win, including weaponry.”
Financial support given to terrorists trying to kill Americans. Let’s not pretend you didn’t know, ok? Just be honest and admit that you are making excuses for those who support islamfascist terrorists. You really were
Jon H
Other funding is coming from black market sales of the Iraqi antiquities we failed to secure.
Kimmitt
I went to the Iraq Libero site. They list as allies the Freedom Socialist Party in the US. There are a few fringe crazies everywhere.
That said, from the site:
The figure collection sara’ devolven to the National Alliance Irachena (Patriotic Opposition),
Any idea if these are folks who are staging rallies or folks who are setting IEDs?
p.lukasiak
but if they only manage to buy one gun for the insurgency, they have blood on their hands as far as I’m concerned
considering the fact that your tax dollars have resulted in the deaths of between 20,000 and 100,000 innocent iraqi civilians, I’d be far more concerned with the fact that you are swimming in a vat of blood than I would be about the tiny bit of blood on the hands of these idiotic radicals.
Kimmitt
Answer: IEDs.
Rozencrantz
So an entire continent gets blamed for the actions of a fringe group? by that logic, we should bomb Asia because that’s where Aum Shinrikyo was.