This is too funny:
A film festival being organized by left-wing director Michael Moore has some right-wing competition.
A local activist and a conservative group from Texas said Wednesday they were putting together an alternative to the Traverse City Film Festival, which Moore and residents of this Lake Michigan community are organizing.
“People are fed up and tired with the extreme left-wing radical fringe
ppgaz
I’d ignore Moore too, except for two things, which I list here in no particular order:
A, or One: His movies are funnier than hell. “Roger and Me” is a great masterpiece. His takedown of the insane Charlton Heston is a great masterpiece. Cruel, to be sure, to show a guy whose brain appears to have been first pickled, and then ravaged by a terrible disease. But of course, the real cruelty is that a huge lobbying organization would prop up poor Heston as their mascot, but that’s another story.
B, or two …. I’m still waiting to hear a single refutation of the assertions in Moore’s use of the Bush-Saudi connection as a hee-haw device. A brilliant stroke on Moore’s part. One, he could laugh at it, in his way, which is brilliant, and two, the connection is real. Absolutely true, and probably much more corrupt that even Moore portrayed it. So he had no fear of having to defend the portrayal against any “outrage” from the Bushies …. because the outrage, if it exists, is only that the Bushes are exposed for what they are: Rich, corrupt oil people who think they have a right to rule the country. Hardly a wonder that they get along so well with the Saudi royals …. they’re peas in a pod.
History will record two things about the latter topic:
One, Moore got rich and had a great time, and more power to him, that’s the American Way. Two, the corrupt relationship between the Bushes and the Saudis will go down as one of the deepest and darkest stains on the history of this country … that is, barring a miracle. Or a Rapture.
KC
The fact is the right has made him a success as much as anyone on the Left. I saw Bowling for Columbine just because I heard so much screaming about it on talk radio. I actually thought it was a pretty entertaining movie too. Sensationalism makes him thrive.
Stormy70
I remember how pissed the base was at Bush, then Moore’s movie came out, and voila, they got more pissed at Michael Moore. Thanks to Michael Moore for helping the Republicans get out the base, and defeat Kerry’s lame ass. I like how quickly Hollywood turned on him after the election. It was beautiful.
This is America, where even Micheal Moore can make a buck.
ppgaz
Sorry, not buying that. The “base” gets riled up as they are told to get riled up.
They were told to get riled up about things that didn’t matter. Rather than have people focus on the sick and corrupt relationship between the Bushes and the Saudis, which is what the movie was really about, they were told to focus on subfacts that really had no bearing on the larger issue. Such as, whether Saudi planes were or were not taking off at some certain time.
That’s called a strawman. Moore did not invent the footage of Bushes affectionately stroking the vestments of Saudis .. all he had to do was rent the canned footage already on the shelf. He didn’t make it up, he just arranged distribution for it.
Gee, that makes him a really BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD, scary person, doesn’t it? Showing canned newsreel footage and laughing his ass off. Now THAT’S the face of evil!
Give me a FUCKING BREAK.
srv
It was curious how many of the so-called intellectual right didn’t go see F911. Ah, there used to be a day when you couldn’t respectfully refute something you hadn’t seen, heard or read.
If I were Dean, I would take that April photo of George and Prince Abdullah walking through the bluebonnets together and mass mail it to every Republican email address I could find.
Darrell
This ‘Traverse Bay Freedom Film Festival’ smells phony to me.. It’s just so damn stupid and caricatured..c’mon showing reruns of ‘Top Gun’ and ‘Raiders of the Lost ark’ to promote pro-family values? sounds fishy to me
Well, with MM’s painting Bush family connections as enabling Saudis to leave the country a couple of days after 9/11 when in fact ALL charter planes were free to leave at that time.. And how MM actually spliced tapes on the golf course comments from GWB which were shown in the preview clips? Or how he lies about the Saudis giving ‘billions’ to Bush and his associates, Saudi embassy bullshit, etc, etc
All this Bush-Saudi conspiracy mongering is tiresome
ppgaz
Darrell, your endless stream of bullshit is tiresome.
Did I use the word “conspiracy”? I did not.
The fact is, the Bush-Saudi record is rather out in the open, and no matter how you slice it, no reasonable person can look at that record and see anything but corruption and the appearance of corruption. That’s the reason why the right reacted so strongly to Moore’s film. They don’t want the subject drilled into, pun intended.
The most fascinating thing about it is the complete and deafening silence from the right, and from the Bushies themselves, on this subject. Silence, from people who trade in noise. Why?
Your reference to the “charter planes” item is telling. What does that have to do with the decades-long buttfuck between the Saudi royal family, and the Bush family? Like I said, it’s a strawman. What is this phony bunch of self-serving, sanctimonious “democracy lovers” doing kissing the rings of a family of oil barons who have no use for democracy? What’s that about, Darrell?
Stormy70
Moore is one big conspiracy theorist dude. Good for a laugh, but not to be taken seriously, as the last election proved.
Moore is a gnat, and if you are easily manipulated by a movie, then he’s your man.
Every country in Europe, and every President of the US has ties with the Saudi royal family. They are sitting on vast reserves of oil, that the entire world’s economy is resting on. That is called “Reality” for all you reality-based folks. Unless it is something else you are putting into your cars, then you have ties to the Saudis as well.
ppgaz
Excuse me? I am supposed to wink at this because I put Saudi Oil in my car? That’s the whole point. That’s exactly why it cannot be winked at.
Answer the question. Don’t feed me a line of crap like that. “Every president of the US has ties with the Saudi Royal family?” Name them, and describe the ties. Which US presidents had long-established business and personal relationships with these slimy thugs?
Darrell
Uh, Saudis funneled millions of dollars to Clinton’s library.
Clinton’s former Ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Wyche Fowler, has been earning big bucks as a Saudi apologist serving as chairman of the Middle East Institute, a research organization heavily funded by Saudi Arabia.
Your assertion that Saudi ties were ‘only’ with the Bush family demonstrates how ignorant you truly are. Stormy was dead on correct that every country in Europe and every Prez of the US has had ties with the royal family
Jess
Michael Moore is really not that radical, and definitely does not represent the America-hating branch of the left-wing. In fact, I find him a refreshing alternative to the post-modern nihilism that took over the academic left in the 80s and 90s. I don’t agree with him all the time, but I do think he’s asking good questions that deserve to be answered. I see no reason to ignore him. Listen to what he has to say, check his facts, and make up your own mind on the subject.
Darrell
No? How bout this quote of his:
The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not “insurgents” or “terrorists” or “The Enemy.” They are the Revolution, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow — and they will win
the head chopping terrorists are, according to MM, like our heroic revolutionary war ‘minutemen’. Sounds to me EXACTLY like the America-hating branch of the leftwing
Rick
Darrell,
Mike Moore might be plea-bargained down from the “America-hating branch of the left-wing” charge to simply being incredibly obtuse, stupid and amoral. But he knows his constituency.
Cordially…
Darrell
The real problem with those who believe that Bush is so corruptly tied in with the Saudis, is squaring that belief with what Bush has done.
The Saudis strongly pressed him not to invade Iraq. How’d that one turn out? And why, if Bush is so “in the pocket” of the Saudis, is Bush such a strong backer of Ariel Sharon? Hmmmm?? How about the fact that Bush has stocked his administration with so many neocons who see Saudi as our mortal enemy, making noises about putting Saudi Arabia “next on the list” after Iraq? Hellooo a-holes, I can’t hear your explanations? Oh, and those on the religious right who you claim ‘control’ Bush.. well, they hate the Saudis even more.. So yeah, you guys really have a “solid” point here on Bush being the lapdog of the Saudis. I can tell you all are real deep thinkers
ppgaz
Nope. dog won’t hunt.
Name the presidents and describe the ties. We are talking about close personal and business relationships, not diplomatic relations on a government-to-government level.
Name them, please, and describe the ties.
I know of two, who happen to have the same last name. Others?
Again, Darrell, you argue with ghosts. I said nothing about “control” of Bush. I said nothing about “lapdogs.”
I said that this family has close personal and business ties, and that those ties appear corrupt. Stormy’s well intentioned retort only adds to my point. I should look the other way at two governments who went to war over “democracy” while being personal business partners with a glaringly undemocratic family of thieves who happen to run Saudi Arabia because I put oil in my vehicle????
No, it’s exactly because I have to put their stinking oil in my vehicle that I want the government of this country completely independent from their slimy influence.
skyla
i think that more men should be getting on the internet and putting their houghts in to the computer!!! how bout that gurls??? do u like that idea?? and i dont really understand y the computer has to be so complacated i neva can find anything anymore cause i forgot how to do stuff cause its to f’ing complacated!!! right??
Darrell
I named the President and I gave you two glaring examples which were NOT government-to-government diplomatic relations. Millions in private donations from Saudis to the Clinton library and Clinton’s former ambassador to Saudi Arabia being placed in a posh job working for a Saudi funded “institute” which is nothing but a propaganda front organization for Saudi interests. What’s really crazy is that when Clinton appointed Fowler ambassador to Saudi Arabia, Fowler couldn’t (and still can’t?) even speak arabic. Neither example falls under “government-to-government” diplomatic relations. Sorry if you don’t like facts
“appear” corrupt?? On what basis do you make that assertion? I’ve given a pretty thorough lineup of examples in which Bush went against Saudi wishes and interests on important matters, yet all you have to offer us is that Bush “appears” to have corrupt ties to the Saudis? Corrupt ties (your characterization) would seem to mean “bribe” or “quid pro quo”, would it not? If so, judging by Bush’s actions, the Saudis should be demanding a refund, don’t you think?
ppgaz
You cited the giving of money to a presidential library.
Are you asserting that this is the equivalent of 30+ years of a close personal business relationship which is, to my knowledge, unmatched and unprecedented in American political history?
You can believe that if you want. I don’t. Maybe I don’t trust wealthy oil barons who operate undemocratic governments and pocket the wealth of the their country as easily as you do.
That’s a difference between us that I am quite happy with.
There are exactly two presidents that I know of who meet the criteria I posed, and they are both named Bush.
If the ties are not corrupt, then the president and his family can easily distance themselves from them. Why don’t they?
Read this
… and believe whatever you like, Darrell. I don’t trust them, and I don’t trust you. I think you could turn on your tv and see George Bush wearing a rag around his head, and a colorful robe, and Laura wearing a burka, and you’d still tell me that you think it’s all just fine.
Good for you. I don’t, and I don’t have to see THAT picture to get the message.
Darrell
ppgaz the source you linked to is Craig Unger, who is a discredited hack trying to hawk his anti-Bush book. From the link you give:
“In this way, Unger argues, $1.4 billion flowed from the House of Saud to the Bush family and their interests.”
Ah yes, 1.4 billion from the Saudis to the Bushies. Except that crap from Unger has long ago been shredded to pieces with the facts. Unger basically pulled that number out of his ass and it was later used by MMoore. Unger’s basis? Almost the entire 1.4 billion he claims went to the Bushies, came from contracts in the early 1990’s to a defense contractor called BDM, for training the Saudis military and National Guard. And BDM was at the time was owned by the Carlyle Group, of which Bush Sr was an advisor (along with George Soros and others), hence his claim about the “billions flowing from the House of Saud” to Bushies
Except one problem. Bush Sr. didn’t join the Carlyle advisory board until April, 1998, five months after Carlyle had already sold BDM to another defense firm, and well after the Saudi contracts had been awarded anyway. The rest of his book and his columns are riddled with similar errors and mistatements of fact
This ppgaz, is the type of horsesh*t source that you swallow hook, line and sinker. You cite this BS, and you believe it, without questioning.
Oh yeah, I’ve always advocated that we should trust the Saudi scumbags, haven’t I? Keep pounding away on those strawmen ppgaz, it’s good exercise for you
jdm
> Again, Darrell, you argue with ghosts. I said
> nothing about “control” of Bush. I said nothing
> about “lapdogs.”
>
> I said that this family has close personal and
> business ties, and that those ties appear corrupt
You do go on and on and on… Like what? In what way? You’ve already ruled out control or lapdogs, but included ring kissing and butt-fucking.
So ring kissing and butt-fucking have nothing to do with control? Or are just your way of saying it’s a friendly relationship? And that’s a sure sign of corruption.
Sort of like Saddam and, say, Abu Nidal? But there’s nothin’ going on there, no siree. Or those 25 large paid to the family of every Pali suicide bomber? Just a little token of condolence from a rich, ruthless dictator, I’m sure.
But the Bush/Saudi thing, well, that’s some serious shit. Yeah, I see.
And what the hell is it with you oh-so tolerant Democrats that when you really get’a ranting you whip out the homosexual alliterations?
ppgaz
In my context, Darrell, butt-fucking is a figure of speech.
I can certainly understand how you might take it literally, though.
Yeah, it is serious shit, Darrell. The next time you hear your sleazebag president talking about “democracy”, remember who he and his family pal around with. Wealthy potentates who run a nondemocratic country, and pocket the wealth of same.
If that’s okay with you, then good for you. It isn’t okay with me.
p.lukasiak
all I know is that Moore made available the footage from the school where Bush was told ‘America is under attack”…and he did nothing until that portion of the photo op was over.
And for that, he deserves all the adoration he gets.
ppgaz
Sorry, mis-attribution, my bad.
But Darrell, I don’t care if it’s 1.4 billion or some other number. Are you claiming that the Bushes and Saudis have NOT been in close personal-business relationships lo these many years? Not even the Bushes have claimed that. Sounds like you have a scoop.
Try to run away from your own shit if you like, Darrell. I asked a question: What are two presidents who make speeches about “democracy” doing palling around and doing business with wealthy oil potentates who run a non-democractic country and pocket the wealth of that country?
Why don’t you try answering it? Or, you could go on trying to portray me as a fool for asking it. Your choice.
Sojourner
ppgaz:
You don’t seem to understand. Bush won the last election, which means he’s entitled to do whatever the hell he wants.
Sojourner
And in case anyone missed it, my lost post was dripping with sarcasm.
Darrell
Yeah, I recall well how Bush was laughing loudly, slapping backs and yukking it up for the cameras in the school after being informed that planes had crashed into the WTC.. Bush was all about the photo op at that time. That is how it happened, isn’t it p.liksak?
Didn’t the secret service have Bush wait until they secured a route for him to return to Airforce 1? Doesn’t that make a weee more sense to you ‘reality based’ lefties? Nah..
Darrell
I pointed this strawman out to you earlier on this thread, yet you insist on repeating it. You *do* realize do you not, that I have never said or inferred that it’s ok for “wealthy potentates”(Saudi leadership) to maintain an undemocratic society, pocketing the wealth themselves? Nope, never said it, nor did I ever remotely suggest it. Look, I have no problem you pulling out your strawmen for flogging if that’s what floats your boat.. it’s just that you keep dragging me into it, putting words in my mouth that I never said
Bob
The American oil industry has been in bed (but only figuratively, Darrell) with the House of Saud going back to before WWII. Back in those days they were ably represented by the Dulles. The Bushes do that same job today. During that period the U.S. has gradrually drifted deeply into debt to foreign energy suppliers. The one president who actually tried to come up with a plan to free us from foreign oil, Carter, had his Bert Lance getting dirty with the BCCI, so no one in our government has gone completely untainted.
To argue that a few million tossed to a Presidential library in Arkansas somehow exonerates the Bush Family’s long embrace with the likes of the Binladens and the Sauds shows shows the shallowness of Darrell’s black and white world. When Reagan won and took the solar panels off the White House roof it signalled America becoming the coked-out whore for foreign oil. The Bushes have been doing the pimping.
Bob
The American oil industry has been in bed (but only figuratively, Darrell) with the House of Saud going back to before WWII. Back in those days they were ably represented by the Dulles. The Bushes do that same job today. During that period the U.S. has gradrually drifted deeply into debt to foreign energy suppliers. The one president who actually tried to come up with a plan to free us from foreign oil, Carter, had his Bert Lance getting dirty with the BCCI, so no one in our government has gone completely untainted.
To argue that a few million tossed to a Presidential library in Arkansas somehow exonerates the Bush Family’s long embrace with the likes of the Binladens and the Sauds shows shows the shallowness of Darrell’s black and white world. When Reagan won and took the solar panels off the White House roof it signalled America becoming the coked-out whore for foreign oil. The Bushes have been doing the pimping.