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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Plame till you Puke

Plame till you Puke

by John Cole|  July 12, 20058:51 am| 36 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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The NY Times comes out swinging:

Nearly two years after stating that any administration official found to have been involved in leaking the name of an undercover C.I.A. officer would be fired, and assuring that Karl Rove and other senior aides to President Bush had nothing to do with the disclosure, the White House refused on Monday to answer any questions about new evidence of Mr. Rove’s role in the matter.

With the White House silent, Democrats rushed in, demanding that the administration provide a full account of any involvement by Mr. Rove, one of the president’s closest advisers, turning up the political heat in the case and leaving some Republicans worried about the possible effects on Mr. Bush’s second-term agenda.

But the story ends with a balanced ‘fizzle’:

Based on the e-mail message, Mr. Rove’s disclosures are not criminal, said Bruce S. Sanford, a Washington lawyer who helped write the law and submitted a brief on behalf of several news organizations concerning it to the appeals court hearing the case of Mr. Cooper and Judith Miller, a reporter for The New York Times. Ms. Miller has gone to jail rather than disclose her source.

“It is clear that Karl Rove’s conversation with Matt Cooper does not fall into that category” of criminal conduct, Mr. Sanford said. “That’s not ‘knowing.’ It doesn’t even come close.”

There has been some dispute, moreover, about just how secret a secret agent Ms. Wilson was.

“She had a desk job in Langley,” said Ms. Toensing, who also signed the supporting brief in the appeals court, referring to the C.I.A.’s headquarters. “When you want someone in deep cover, they don’t go back and forth to Langley.”

The predictable outcome is another blast of anger from both sides. Personally, I will stick with Tom Maguire’s analyses (the most recent installments are here and here), although not necessarily his conclusions.

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36Comments

  1. 1.

    Tim F

    July 12, 2005 at 9:24 am

    To start off the day’s flame war, I think that Valerie Plame would have kicked James Bond’s ass. He had that piddly little Walther PPK, she had WMDs.

  2. 2.

    Doug

    July 12, 2005 at 9:26 am

    I’d tend to take the New York Times reporting on this with a grain of salt until we figure out Judith Miller’s role in the whole thing. I don’t mind folks having a dog in the fight, I just like to know what the dog is. Also, I think it’s astounding that the White House press corp suddenly developed a memory once one of their own went to jail. I don’t think this is the first time McClellan has said something inconsistent with a prior statement, but I think this is the first time the press has gone after him so hard.

  3. 3.

    over it

    July 12, 2005 at 9:33 am

    Ok. I have not really been following this subject…most of what I have gleaned about I have gotten from this site.

    I have a question. I am a bit confused about who is in trouble and why. From what I can tell….Cooper apparently spoke to Rove after Novack realeased his article. My question is: if Novack is the one that wrote/released the article that ‘outed’ Plame…why isn’t he the one in trouble? Who gave him the info? Why isn’t he the one in jail instead of Miller? Why is all the heat on Cooper and Miller and not on Novack?

    I am guessing that I have somehow missed something obvious…but for the life of me I cannot figure out what it is.

  4. 4.

    David Janes

    July 12, 2005 at 9:43 am

    Factual Note. The NYT article:

    Nearly two years after stating that any administration official found to have been involved in leaking the name of an undercover C.I.A. officer would be fired,…

    Bush’s statement:

    “If there’s a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is,” Bush told reporters at an impromptu news conference during a fund-raising stop in Chicago, Illinois. “If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of.

    Hmmm. Unless they’re referring to some other statement (please correct me), this seems like a stretch.

  5. 5.

    Mr Furious

    July 12, 2005 at 9:47 am

    I don’t realy understand exactly why Miller, who never published anything is actually the one in trouble, yet Novak is sipping lemonade on his porch.

    Miller is in jail for contempt, not actually anything to do specifically with the outing of Plame. But it doesn’t seem fair that the guy who actually did the deed seems to not only possess some magic “Get Out of Jail Free” card, but also a “You Can’t Even Call Me Before the Grand Jury Card.”

    Novak obviously covered his ass carefully at the time of the leak, before he published the column.

  6. 6.

    Tim F

    July 12, 2005 at 9:51 am

    over it,

    Cooper’s emails demonstrate that Rove spoke with him before Novak’s column was published, although it isn’t clear whether the conversation was also before Novak’s column hit the wires.

    Furious, Miller may be in this a lot deeper than just one conversation with Rove. She’s tangled with Titzgerald before, and has acted as the Bush court’s loyal stenographer in many cases that may potentially interest the prosecutor. The Plame case potentially ties into a larger web of lies, leaks and intelligence falsifications in the runup to the Iraq war.

  7. 7.

    Tim F

    July 12, 2005 at 9:53 am

    um yeah, his name is ‘Fitzgerald,’ not ‘Titzgerald.’ Please don’t subpoena me.

  8. 8.

    Mr Furious

    July 12, 2005 at 9:56 am

    David,

    Bush carefully chose his words in the statement you refer to. So much so that it implies knowledge of an unethical or unbecoming action by his staff, that wasn’t technically illegal. Thanks for bringing it up. It reflects even more poorly on him than simply refusing to follow through on his bluster.

    Of course, his inability to improvise anything when questioned means he almost certainly strayed from that precise message at one time or another. McClellan certainly did.

    After all the talk from those two, they don’t really have any reason to stand by Rove, whether Plame was actually covert or not, or whether Rove committed an actual crime. He participated in the whole thing, and he (and/or the White House) tried to cover it up.

    If this was any other White House he’d have been long gone by now.

    Not that it matters, he will perform the same functions from the private sector, operating even further in the shadows. Personally if he’s not going to jail, I’d prefer to keep him in plain sight. At least working in the White House his calls, visitors and actions are subject to some scrutiny.

  9. 9.

    Mr Furious

    July 12, 2005 at 10:00 am

    I agree with you Tim, that Miller may be a thread that unravels a lot more lies, actions and cover-ups than Plame. It may not lead to anything with Rove and this specific issue, but I’m curious to see if the media is encouraged enough to keep pulling at it.

  10. 10.

    Tim F

    July 12, 2005 at 10:07 am

    Marshall Whittman says Rove will have to be indicted out of the WH. More or less reaffirms what we already guessed, but he knows more about GOP inside baseball than you do or I do.

  11. 11.

    Jon H

    July 12, 2005 at 10:09 am

    “If the person has violated law, that person will be taken care of.”

    Of course, in the Bush administration, that means Rove will get the Congressional Medal of Honor and a promotion.

  12. 12.

    Mr Furious

    July 12, 2005 at 10:14 am

    I liked this Op-Ed [courtesy of Armando at Kos]

    White House Leaks: A serious security matter

    SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER EDITORIAL BOARD

    President Bush has plenty of evidence to begin acting on Karl Rove’s involvement in the disclosure of a secret agent’s name to exact political vengeance. The president’s choice will say a lot about whether he intends to control abuses of power within what some see as one of the most power-hungry administrations the United States has ever experienced.

    The president ought to be outraged that, so far, one reporter has gone to jail for acting honestly while some in his administration continue to be free of consequences for revealing Valerie Plame’s identity as a CIA operative. The leak of her name and role to Bush-friendly columnist Robert Novak in 2003 was a violation of federal law, if done deliberately…

    Now, Newsweek reports show that Rove, Bush’s closest political adviser and currently deputy White House chief of staff, was one of the aides discussing Plame’s work with reporters. And it was done in precisely the context everyone understood lay behind her outing: Rove was trying to discredit Wilson.

    Rove’s lawyer said his client did not use Plame’s name in the conversation, apparently referring to her only as Wilson’s wife and a CIA official. That may be relevant in determining whether, under the law, Rove committed a crime by revealing her identity. It should hold little weight with the president.

    …Rove has discredited the White House. In October 2003, White House spokesman Scott McClellan firmly assured the public that Rove had played no role in the leak. No boss, least of all the president of the United States, should tolerate a top aide who lets the office cover for him in presumably trusting fashion like that.

    More specifically, the president must live up to his early promises about dealing severely with the abusive leak of Plame’s identity. On Oct. 6, 2003, Bush told reporters, “This is a very serious matter, and our administration takes it very seriously.” Unless the plain meaning of those words is not their true meaning, Bush was saying that he and other top advisers were outraged at the leak and had nothing to do with it. Now, it turns out that Rove, indeed, did have something to do with using Plame’s CIA activities to attack Wilson.

    The president would bring credit to himself and his administration by firing Rove immediately. Whether or not Rove violated the law, his actions on behalf of the administration broke trust with the American people and with the president’s own stated view of the matter. Minimally, enough is known that the president must suspend Rove and cease all contacts with Rove until the investigation is complete. Rove, it appears, cannot be trusted with the United States’ secrets.

  13. 13.

    over it

    July 12, 2005 at 10:15 am

    Tim-
    So, is it thought that Cooper and/or Miller gave Novack the information? If not, why is there no apparent interest in where Novack did get it? I guess, big picture, I just do not understand why Novack is not the one in hot water. He was, afterall, the one that outed Plame to the public. I am missing the logic here.

  14. 14.

    BumperStickerist

    July 12, 2005 at 10:22 am

    MrF – puh-leaze.

    The first paragraph’s use of ‘secret agent’, ‘political vengenance’, and ‘some see as the most power hugnry {blah, blah} in the history of Western Civilization’ is enough to make any reasonable person toss it under the bird and then go on to read the Sports.

    For full Bull Goose conspiracy theories, we should rightly focus on Judy Miller, NYT reporter … and … covert CIA operative? Hmmmmmm….?

    Hmmmmm…..?

    A CIA op working for the NYT is certainly a *more* plausible cover story for a Secret Agent than, say, Wife of an Ambassador who served in Iraq and Africa. And, since this is the internets, I have a link to the story and, as we all know, a link means proof:

    Read the Whole Thing – if you dare.

  15. 15.

    Jon H

    July 12, 2005 at 10:22 am

    “I guess, big picture, I just do not understand why Novack is not the one in hot water.”

    The law involved doesn’t cover him. For one thing, he didn’t out Plame to the public, he *is* the public, so his source outed Plame “to the public”.

    Even if Novak hadn’t written anything, the law would still have been broken, by Novak’s source. (Or maybe his source’s source, depending on when the info was passed to someone who shouldn’t have known it.)

    Novak would *only* have broken the law if he made a regular practice of outing covert agents.

    That leaves the question of whether he has cooperated with the Grand Jury or not, which nobody knows. I suspect that either he has, and has kept it quiet, or else he made some other arrangement that satisfied Fitzgerald.

  16. 16.

    Mr.Ortiz

    July 12, 2005 at 10:26 am

    Clearly, when the President said the leaker would be “taken care of”, he meant well taken care of, as in a big fat raise and NBA Finals tix (courtside, natch).

    Sarcasm aside, I still think that (1)Rove, if he did break any laws, will get off with a slap on the wrist, (2)Dems know that Rove will get off with a slap on the wrist and so (3)they’re trying to get in as many punches as they can now, before the situation deteriorates into so much legalese and the public tunes out.

    As for Novak, if he’s not being threatened with jail, one would hope it’s because he’s cooperating with authorities.

  17. 17.

    Tim F

    July 12, 2005 at 10:27 am

    over it,

    Conventional wisdom has it that Novak sang like a canary. Unlike reporters with principles to defend, there’s no reason for Fitz to incarcerate Novak. By law printing Plame’s name is not a crime, it’s the guy who had the security clearance and passed on Plame’s name to Novak, or inside the administration, who’s in trouble.

    CW also holds that one or more folks stand to go down on obstruction and/or perjury charges. Since Rove apparently didn’t have clearance that’s likely where interest in him is coming from. Another CW nugget suggests that the guy in the administration with both access and the most interest in smearing Wilson and shutting down the Iraq doubters at Langley is, surprise, John Bolton.

    But really, it’s all kabuki theater for now. We’re the guys in Plato’s cave trying to make sense of shadows on the wall.

  18. 18.

    BumperStickerist

    July 12, 2005 at 10:34 am

    The ‘Miller is a Covert CIA Agent’ article is here, btw

    http://susiemadrak.com/2005/07/06/16/19/the-judy-miller-show/

    It’s too stupid to not be true.

  19. 19.

    Jon H

    July 12, 2005 at 10:37 am

    The big problem with the “Miller is CIA” theory is that the CIA didn’t like or trust Chalabi, whereas Judy wore kneepads for Chalabi.

    She’s more likely to be DIA, or even contracting direct to the Office of Special Plans in the Pentagon.

  20. 20.

    Ben

    July 12, 2005 at 10:40 am

    Folks,
    Mr. F is the only one who really gets what is pertinent with this case. Obviously, the Repubs and Bush will stick to the weak, it depends on what “is” is like argument of Rove didn’t use Plame’s name garbage. But, more importantly, weren’t the Repubs supposed to be the “party of values”? The party of Jayzus? This little episode has proven, along with a bunch of other stuff, that the Bush administration is as dirty, if not more so, than the Clinton administration was. What Rove did may have been legal, but it wasn’t moral or ethical, especially when considering his motives. The Repubs are lying sacks of shit just like the Dems.

  21. 21.

    Tom Maguire

    July 12, 2005 at 10:44 am

    Personally, I will stick with Tom Maguire’s analyses (the most recent installments are here and here), although not necessarily his conclusions.

    My feelings exactly. Feel better.

  22. 22.

    Doug

    July 12, 2005 at 10:47 am

    Yup. Suddenly the Republicans are A-OK with Clintonian hair splitting.

  23. 23.

    Mr Furious

    July 12, 2005 at 10:50 am

    Yes, Tim! The Bolton thread/connection was what I couldn’t quite remember upthread. This might all tie back to him as he had the motive and the opportunity. Wonder why the white house is refusing to release the documents to the Dems on the Committee? Therein lies the answer, perhaps…

  24. 24.

    Don

    July 12, 2005 at 10:59 am

    “”She had a desk job in Langley,” said Ms. Toensing, who also signed the supporting brief in the appeals court, referring to the C.I.A.’s headquarters. “When you want someone in deep cover, they don’t go back and forth to Langley.””

    And here I foolishly defered to the CIA itself in deciding if someone is or is not an agent with a cover! Wish I’d known all along that the rest of us are entitled to make these decisions and public announcements on our own recognisance.

  25. 25.

    David Janes

    July 12, 2005 at 11:06 am

    Just to get on the record here, I have no dogs in this particular fight.

    So, onwards with the factual stuff.

    6 July 2003 [http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050711/NEWS/507110328/1021]
    Joseph Wilson publishes his op-ed in the NYT.

    11 July 2003
    [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek/]
    Time magazine correspondent Matt Cooper sends e-mail to boss revealing conversation with Rove

    14 July 2003 [ibid]
    Robert Novak reveals Wilson’s wife was a CIA officer.

    I’m establishing the timeline just to show there’s a _possibility_ that Rove leaked the name as a smear operation; obviously if this had happened before the 6th of July, this would be a different story.

    A few notes, about what I’m thinking about:
    – was it known (generally) that Plame was a CIA officer
    – was it known specifically to Rove that Plam was an _undercover_ CIA officer
    – it still needs to be established how the info got from Cooper/Time to Novak.

    The illegality of Rove’s actions depends on whether he knew Plame was undercover [need URI reference here]. If he didn’t, then he was just undermining Wilson which may or may not be justified [a topic for possible later examination]

  26. 26.

    David Janes

    July 12, 2005 at 11:07 am

    Just to get on the record here, I have no dogs in this particular fight.

    So, onwards with the factual stuff.

    6 July 2003 [http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050711/NEWS/507110328/1021]
    Joseph Wilson publishes his op-ed in the NYT.

    11 July 2003
    [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek/]
    Time magazine correspondent Matt Cooper sends e-mail to boss revealing conversation with Rove

    14 July 2003 [ibid]
    Robert Novak reveals Wilson’s wife was a CIA officer.

    I’m establishing the timeline just to show there’s a _possibility_ that Rove leaked the name as a smear operation; obviously if this had happened before the 6th of July, this would be a different story.

    A few notes, about what I’m thinking about:
    – was it known (generally) that Plame was a CIA officer
    – was it known specifically to Rove that Plam was an _undercover_ CIA officer
    – it still needs to be established how the info got from Cooper/Time to Novak.

    The illegality of Rove’s actions depends on whether he knew Plame was undercover [need URI reference here]. If he didn’t, then he was just undermining Wilson which may or may not be justified [a topic for possible later examination]

  27. 27.

    David Janes

    July 12, 2005 at 11:08 am

    Just to get on the record here, I have no dogs in this particular fight.

    So, onwards with the factual stuff.

    6 July 2003 [http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050711/NEWS/507110328/1021]
    Joseph Wilson publishes his op-ed in the NYT.

    11 July 2003
    [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek/]
    Time magazine correspondent Matt Cooper sends e-mail to boss revealing conversation with Rove

    14 July 2003 [ibid]
    Robert Novak reveals Wilson’s wife was a CIA officer.

    I’m establishing the timeline just to show there’s a _possibility_ that Rove leaked the name as a smear operation; obviously if this had happened before the 6th of July, this would be a different story.

    A few notes, about what I’m thinking about:
    – was it known (generally) that Plame was a CIA officer
    – was it known specifically to Rove that Plam was an _undercover_ CIA officer
    – it still needs to be established how the info got from Cooper/Time to Novak.

    The illegality of Rove’s actions depends on whether he knew Plame was undercover [need URI reference here]. If he didn’t, then he was just undermining Wilson which may or may not be justified [a topic for possible later examination]

  28. 28.

    Tim F

    July 12, 2005 at 11:16 am

    Why do you think that Novak got his info from Cooper? His column was filed on the same day that Rove spoke with Cooper (columns are filed in advance of printing). There exists no reason to believe that Novak’s “two administration sources” are not in fact two sources within the administration.

  29. 29.

    Tim F

    July 12, 2005 at 11:21 am

    – was it known (generally) that Plame was a CIA officer

    No.

    – was it known specifically to Rove that Plam was an _undercover_ CIA officer

    Whether yes or no, what matters is who had clearance to know that Plame was undercover and told other people, even within the administration. That is why I brought up Bolton upthread. He had contact with Plame, strong motive to attack her skeptical faction at CIA and this sort of boneheaded move fits his MO perfectly.

  30. 30.

    David Janes

    July 12, 2005 at 11:28 am

    I don’t think anything; I’m just piecing together the story from reasonably factual (as opposed to opinion) sources. Sorry for the multiple posts — I was having some MT difficulties.

    I meant to include the possibility of Rove directly to Novak as a possible (and even probable) thread. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Note that Tim F and Don are more or less disagreeing on whether it was generally known that Plame was a CIA officer, undercover or not.

  31. 31.

    J. Michael Neal

    July 12, 2005 at 11:37 am

    I highly suggest that folks go over to Mark Kleiman’s blog, and search for “Espionage Act”. Everyone is focusing exclusively on the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, under which the leaker may well not be guilty and, even if he is, it would be hard to prove. However, a number of events suggest that Fitzgerald may be focusing on the Espionage Act as the basis for a prosecution.

    If so, not knowing specifically that Plame was undercover isn’t relevant, and neither is the question of whether she’s been out of the country in the last five years. It is also the case that, under the Espionage Act, unlike IIPA, Novak could be in trouble, too. It is possible that he hasn’t testified to the grand jury because he is a target of the investigation.

    This is, of course, all speculation, since we don’t know what Fitzgerald is doing. His office has been wonderfully leak free, which is admirable above and beyond the fact that it allows for more fun speculation.

  32. 32.

    Tim F

    July 12, 2005 at 11:51 am

    I’ve heard that Novak spread Plame’s identity in private circles before his article was printed. Assuming that the article has some protection as ‘journalism,’ his private conversations do not.

    It’s interesting to think that Novak could be a target himself. God knows that over his long career, he’s earned it.

  33. 33.

    Tim F

    July 12, 2005 at 11:53 am

    Note that Tim F and Don are more or less disagreeing

    Don is not disagreeing with me. Don is quoting a source cited in the NYT article in order to point out that she is an uninformed blockhead.

  34. 34.

    Andrew J. Lazarus

    July 12, 2005 at 1:27 pm

    You have to remember that the NY Times has some incentive for fizzling out in the end: the bigger deal Plamegate is, the more their reporter Judy Miller belongs in the slammer. That “no crime” argument was submitted to the Appeals Court and they rejected it unanimously.

  35. 35.

    Don

    July 12, 2005 at 5:26 pm

    Tim – correctamundo, though I meant it more generally since, sadly, several people have piped up on this and news media have included it in their stories as if it matters. Double-super-secret or sorta-secret, if you’re not her boss/handler it’s NOT YOUR CALL TO MAKE.

  36. 36.

    Mr. Relax

    July 13, 2005 at 9:44 am

    Mr. F and Tim F (probably brothers) I find it interesting to bring in the Bolton hearings when it was Kerry who – oops outed a for real CIA operative during those hearings. Also, it was Wilson who became an employee of the Kerry campaign and has been grinding axes. There are multiple cases of his deliberate lying, well documented.
    It reads to me like Rove stated that it was not Cheney that got Wilson assigned to the Niger investigation it was his wife. If Wilson hadn’t squealed like a stuck pig to elevate his worth in the Kerry campaign, all the while knowing his desk job wife was not ‘outed’, this would never have elevated to an ‘issue’ at all.

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