Just because I am evil and I want to keep Democratic cardiologists busy, I offer you two opinion pieces about Joseph Wilson. The first, from Michael Barone:
But Wilson, like Oates, lied. His Times article said he had been sent by the CIA at the request of Vice President Dick Cheney. But Cheney denies he made any such request, and former CIA Director George Tenet said the trip was initiated inside the agency.
Wilson’s article said George W. Bush lied in his 2003 State of the Union Address when he said that British intelligence reported that Iraq had sought to buy uranium in Africa. But Wilson’s mission covered only one country, and the British government has stood by its report.
Moreover, the report that Wilson sent the CIA said that Iraq had sought to buy uranium in Niger in 1998, unsuccessfully; agency analysts concluded, not unreasonably, that this strengthened rather than weakened the case against Saddam.
Wilson denied repeatedly that his wife had played any part in his assignment to Niger. But the Senate Intelligence Committee, in a report subscribed to by members of both parties, said she had suggested his name.
And for dessert, Mark Steyn:
This controversy began, you’ll recall, because Wilson objected to a line in the president’s State of the Union speech that British intelligence had discovered that Iraq had been trying to acquire ”yellowcake” — i.e., weaponized uranium — from Africa. This assertion made Bush, in Wilson’s incisive analysis, a ”liar” and Cheney a ”lying sonofabitch.”
In fact, the only lying sonafabitch turned out to be Yellowcake Joe. Just about everybody on the face of the earth except Wilson, the White House press corps and the moveon.org crowd accepts that Saddam was indeed trying to acquire uranium from Africa. Don’t take my word for it; it’s the conclusion of the Senate intelligence report, Lord Butler’s report in the United Kingdom, MI6, French intelligence, other European services — and, come to that, the original CIA report based on Joe Wilson’s own briefing to them. Why Yellowcake Joe then wrote an article for the New York Times misrepresenting what he’d been told by senior figures from Major Wanke’s regime in Niger is known only to him.
And yes, the only reason I posted these was to see the reactions in the comments. Consider this today’s flame war thread.
And just because I don;t know where to stop, there is this:
New York Sen. Charles Schumer, a Democrat, has called Rove’s action “dastardly.” Plame is still alive, of course, which is more than can be said for the Egyptian operative who died in the 1980s while helping to capture a perpetrator of the Achille Lauro hijacking – allegedly as a result of Vermont Democratic Sen. Patrick Leahy’s loose lips. I can’t find where Schumer called Leahy “dastardly,” or anything else, for that matter.
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi wants Rove fired. She never asked that of Leahy – and, again, just so it’s absolutely clear, an operative likely was murdered because of Leahy’s indiscretion. What’s worse, Leahy was then head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, an oxymoron perhaps.
For those of you who like to claim I just ‘parrot’ Gop ‘talking points,’ of course.
Vladi G
Not even worth it.
Sojourner
There’s really not much to say. The only thing I care about is the fact that a CIA operative was outed by the Bush administration. The Bush apologists like these guys can blow all the smoke they want but it doesn’t change that one basic fact. I do not understand how anyone can defend the outing of “one of ours.” Especially for political reasons. It’s pathetic the extent to which this administration will destroy anyone who challenges them.
Tim F
Josh Marshall sends his love.
Jon H
Yawn. Do you have anyone who hasn’t autolobotomized?
Wrye
I am glad that Joeseph Wilson will finally be made to pay for his horrible crimes.
mac Buckets
You are assuming that she was meant to be outed and that it was for the purpose of revenge. None of that is supported so far.
Tommaso Sciortino
As a true-blue Berkeley liberal I can say that, yes, Joe Wilson probably was dishonest or misinformed about a lot of stuff. The real issue is that someone outed a CIA agent thereby putting our people at risk. It doesn’t matter if Valerie “deserved it” for having a scumbag husband. It doesn’t matter if Joe Wilson was a pious saint.
I don’t know if Karl Rove did it, or someone else in the white house, or someone else with the appropriate security clearence. But unless some top secret documents accidentally flew out of someone’s window at the white house, a crime was committed. That conservatives and Republcians are more egear to trash Wilson than get to the bottom of a very real security threat is well… one of the reasons that I’m proud to be a liberal.
Tim F
Can’t help but laugh. Gravity is just a theory, dontchaknow.
Otto Man
Sorry, but I gave up on taking Mark Steyn seriously when he took Wilson’s comment that his wife wasn’t a clandestine officer as soon as Novak outed her to somehow mean that she not only wasn’t a clandestine officer when the article came out, but hadn’t been a clandestine officer for six years.
I know the doctors will want to run tests, but I’m fairly sure Steyn is functionally retarded.
Jeff G
Not to throw cold water on the Rove-lynchers who seem to be waiting around here with their hands on their ropes, but an amicus brief pointed out that Plame had been “outed” by the CIA itself sometime in the 90s; additionally, that both Novak and Cooper went to Rove would seem, to anyone who’s interested in talking about this non-story honestly, to refute Rove’s purported motive — specifically, that he was out to retaliate against Wilson for his high-profile criticisms.
Related: an interview with Karl Rove’s breakfast burrito.
Oh. And Tim, you’ll want to check here for a detailed response to Marshall and Daalder.
Mike S
As I said before, one side of this argument is going to look spectacularly stupid when the GJ is finished. If it’s mine I will be happy to come here and be ridiculed by the other.
Will the Rove defenders do the same?
Sojourner
If this were true, why has there been a multi-year investigation of the case and why is a journalist sitting in jail as we speak?
ppGaz
Because we’re all on Candid Camera?
DougJ
Great post, John. Long story short: Wilson is a liar, Rove is a patriot. It doesn’t matter whether Rove outted Wilson’s wife. Rove was advancing the cause of freedom, Wilson was part of the anti-American Democratic jihad. That’s all that mattters.
Jeff
To put to rest this entire “was she a clandestine officer or not” debate once and for all.From this week’s issue of TIME
She was BOTH no longer a clandestine officer AND also a covert agent. Both sides were partly right. And if both sides actually listened to each other instead of bitching about how the other is wrong, they might have gotten to the actual truth
Jeff G
Here’s the media’s amicus brief.
More here.
As to why Judith Miller is in jail, I don’t know. Do you?
Sojourner
No. One side has consistently argued that she was outed. What you wrote is consistent with that.
DougJ
Judith Miller is a great reporter and it just shows to what lengths Fitzgerald is willing to go in his anti-Bush crusade that he has chosen to imprison her. She’s a got a lot of guts. She put her neck out on the line on WMD and she’s doing it again. I wish there were more reporters like her out there.
Bob
Barone says:
[Joe Wilson’s]
This is what the article actually said:
The Disenfranchised Voter
Heh, talk about spin. This guy is a hack. The uranium claim is still open for debate. Anyone who claims either side in the uranium debate was 100% correct is lying to suit their agenda:
and
Sojourner
Since the case is about the outing of Valerie Plame, this would indicate that it has to do with the outing of Valerie Plame.
Mr Furious
[swimming right past bait]
Steve
This lie that Wilson once claimed he was sent at Cheney’s request has been repeated so many times by now, I am quite certain that the conservative blogosphere would have found a citation if there was any support for it whatsoever.
Sojourner
Given the lack of any facilities in Iraq to process the uranium, my first question is what would he use it for? It seems to me this is another problem with the position that Hussein attempted to buy uranium.
Tim F
Oh. And Tim, you’ll want to check here for a detailed response to Marshall and Daalder.
Oh goody, a link that leads off with:
I’ll be sure to give a shit what this guy thinks.
His belief in pure government is touching. No wait, stand aside while I puke. You can’t suddenly discover faith in government after Clinton leaves office.
The post never gets back to Daadler’s chief point: The Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had not sought Uranium abroad since 1991. It may be true that the British had other sources than the forgeries, in which case Josh loses with his single-source theory, but now we know those other sources were also wrong.
Why would Iraq want Uranium? They had plenty. You’ll recall Tuwaitha for example. And they had no nuke program. Even if you give it the benefit of the doubt, the ‘yellowcake’ story only makes sense if Iraq had some plan for that uranium, which we now know it didn’t. That we once thought Iraq had an active program is the only reason that story ever had credibility.
mimi
One expects sleaze from a political operative the likes of Rove. When Fitzgerald wraps up his investigation, I’d like to see Rove step aside.
The greater disappointment lies with the CIA. Joseph Wilson’s opportunism and his wife’s inability to reign him in demonstrates what a mickey-mouse operation the CIA had become. (For starters, did Mrs. Wilson not know that her husband was regaling journalists the likes of Kristof with his tales of his jaunt to Niger, did she not know he was penning editorials to the NYT, couldn’t she or her employer put a muzzle on him?) To the White House, Joseph Wilson must have been the icing on the cake. The anonymous sources coming out of the CIA in the lead up to the war were relentless. The intelligence the CIA ultimately delivered was weak, poorly sourced and disputable. There were appropriate channels to voice their concerns. Calling the President a liar in the press reduced the legitimate concerns to partisan gamesmanship.
PS – Mark Felt is not a hero.
Jeff
I agree with that. I wasn’t arguing that the quote validates both sides claims. Those who claimed she wasn’t outed were wrong. What I was arguing was that during this debate, many of those who claimed that she was outed would not listen to evidence to the contrary, including that she was no longer a clandestine officer. Those who did believe she wasn’t outed wouldn’t listen to evidence to the contrary. If both sides were willing to listen more, they might have seen that both had elements of the truth, and the actual reality was a blending of the two. By only believing what would benefit their side though, they missed the actual reality.
Joe Albanese
Michael Barone said:
Now here are Ambassador Wilson’s own words in the NY Times op-ed that has started it all:
John Cole
I see this post has had the desired effect.
Buahaha.
DougJ
“PS – Mark Felt is not a hero.”
Agreed 100%! He is a rat, nothing more. His backstabbing set into a motion a tempest in teapot that felled a great president and led to wholesale slaughter in Cambodia.
JC
From one JC to another –
You are starting useless, pointless flame wars purposely? For kicks?
You evil bastard!! Did you kill Kenny??
:)
But I digress.
Let’s dispense with the easy ones first – even thought a lot of these accusations sound like the Chewbacca defense, meaning that the accusation or point has nothing to do with the actual guilt or innocence of said subject.
Wilson could be a sleaze, and he could be lying his [email protected]@ off, but that still doesn’t explain why a clandestine NOC CIA operative was leaked – however it was leaked. And that’s the crime in question. The case never would have been referred by the CIA, had Plame not been a NOC operative. All the Republican judges who have ruled on the case to compel testimony also wouldn’t have done so if there wasn’t a compelling reason to do so.
I was surprised at Barone on the “Wilson lied about Cheney sending him”. We’ve covered this here, so much, it’s silly. The Cheney office was interested in more info, it was referred to the CIA group in question, Wilson was tapped, etc. Wilson never said CHENEY sent him.
Sheesh.
The Steyn article – cmon, that’s just silly. “Just about everybody on the face of the earth except Wilson, the White House press corps and the moveon.org crowd accepts that Saddam was indeed trying to acquire uranium from Africa”. The Iraq Survey Group, on the ground, with access to everything for a year, have confirmed that Hussein never went looking for this stuff – from the Comprehensive Report –
ISG has not found evidence to show that Iraq sought uranium from abroad after 1991 or renewed indigenous production of such material
Sojourner
But the actual reality is that Plame was outed – so I’m not sure what your point is.
db
MILLER IS ROTTING IN JAIL??
JG
Settle down Ben Stein. I’m sure you’d find it laughable if anyone said that the Clinton impeachment weakened him so that he couldn’t properly deal with Al Qaeda after the Cole bombing in 2000.
Tim F
Cole’s only doing this because I threatened to turn the next cat thread into a Plame war if he didn’t. It’s all for Tunch.
Jeff G
Jesus, JC. They HAVE to investigate. The CIA is statutorily obligated to investigate. The fact of an investigation DOES NOT INDICATE that a crime was committed.
And this, from the Butler report, section 499, seems to be at odds with the ISG Comprehensive Report:
“There was further and separate intelligence that in 1999 the Iraqi regime had also made inquiries about the purchase of uranium ore in the Democratic Republic of Congo. In this case, there was some evidence that by 2002 an agreement for a sale had been reached.”
JG
The fact that he was trying to get urananium or that he even reached an agreement to purchase doesn’t rise to the level of imminent threat to the security of the US does it?
Tim F
Not if Saddam already had uranium, which he did.
Jimmy Jazz
And meanwhile, back in the real world:
JC
Jeff G:
Statutorily obligated. Interesting point. Cite? Also, at least 4 or 5 decision points here:
a. CIA decided to refer case to Justice.
b. DOJ decides to appoint prosecutor.
c-e Prosecution takes investigation, and compels testimony from numerous people/journalists etc. Judges keep slapping down motions to deny testimony, on the basis that this is serious.
It’s pretty compelling to me that it wouldn’t have gone this far unless Plame’s status was still that of a NOC within the five year period – although I would grant that the NOC status might have been coming off soon.
Also, re: Butler – the best takedown of this point is from Josh Marshall here
Relevant portion:
“Here he claims among other things that Iraq really was interested in getting its hands on Nigerien uranium.
That’s based on? Well, the British Butler Report of course, notwithstanding the fact that the Butler Report doesn’t exactly say that or the fact that the Butler Report itself can be shown without great difficulty to be intentionally misleading about the British reliance on those same forgeries to come up with their claim about an Iraq-Niger connection.
He even throws in the spoon-fed bit of disinformation that appeared in the Financial Times back in June 2004. This was the story about the shadowy gang of central African uranium smugglers who’d conspired to sell uranium to more or less every rogue state in the world.
But why mess with preliminaries? The Iraq Survey Group more or less owned Iraq for more than a year, had access to all the evidence leading up the war, all the evidence in Iraq, all the scientists arrested by the US military, everything we’ve learned since the war. And, as Ivo Daalder pointed out a few days back, the ISG concluded that Saddam’s regime had not sought uranium either at home or abroad since 1991, period.
What else is there to say?”
Tim F
This section of the ISG report si especially illuminating. Excerpting the good stuff would turn this flame war into a spam war, so go forth and read.
In sum, some of the things that the British claim as ‘evidence,’ while circumstantial, are likely true. The Butler report did not have access to the actual Iraqis involved in African diplomacy. Hence, they had no way to know what was the nature of the contact. The ISG did have access, and so we now know what was the nature of the contacts. It wasn’t uranium.
JC
Ayatollah so!
What’s up with stealing from Billmon’s jokes? Give him props guys!
Andrei
What? That you can whip some people into a froth while still avoiding speaking relevantly on this issue? (The way you spoke relevantly on the Schiavo issue, issues of recent GOP bills and spending or the general political climate with regard to gays?)
Given how well you’ve defended or pontificated on other issues at length — even ones I or others disagree with you on — I’d have to say you’re being a real pussy on the whole Rove/Miller/Wilson/Novak/Plame now Libby story in particular. This post also has the effect of proving that point.
IMHO.
Andrew J. Lazarus
I’m busy at real life job today, but I have time to echo half a dozen others starting with Bob.
Wilson never claimed to have been sent by Cheney.
It’s that simple. He said he was sent as a result of inquiries that Cheney made, but that doesn’t mean Cheney picked him, asked for him, knew about him, OR SENT HIM. That’s just plain English.
Once you see the straw man, you just know the rest of the slanderous Barone attack is B.S. Just not worth reading. The Rove Defense Team has picked its attack and all of the mice have been ordered to stay on message.
Tim F
Okay, I was kidding about Tunch. I’d never turn a thread about that adorable furball into a Plame war. This thread came up so that all the people who claim that Cole ‘parrots GOP talking points’ can get their jollies railing against some real GOP talking points. Flush out the folks who can’t tell the difference between the above and an actual Cole post.
DougJ
“Wilson never claimed to have been sent by Cheney.”
Should we nominate him for sainthood based on that? He’s a dishonest partisan who was out to embarrass the Bush admin. Isn’t that bad enough?
JC
Andrew,
What’s interesting is – given the full-throated orchestration of defense playing by the whole Republican operation – is this an indication of how worried these guys might be?
There’s only 3 months left in the probe. It’s NOT an independent probe, and still subject to the AG’s approval/disapproval. All Dem’s on this matter who suddenly believe that Fitzgerald will be able (probably not even willing) to go after the “real” culprits, wherever it may lead, is wishful thinking. Given all the journos, possible WH officials, etc, WHY spend all this type with easily disprovable allegations against the Wilsons?
The most likely reason is because someone WAS caught with their hand in the cookie jar.
What are other possibilities?
JC
Or that is wishful thinking. But what else?
BumperStickerist
Well – we know that Valerie Plame, a key undercover supersecret agent in the vitally important WMD anti-proliferation section that was the ebenezer upon which the Clinton built its terrorism policy came in from the cold in 1997. Valerie may have gone off NOC/Covert status after 1999, which is when she listed ‘Brewster Jennings’ as her employer. But Valerie does not appear to have undercover status.
Then again, if Valerie was working at a desk in Langley in 1999 and listed ‘Brewster Jennings’ on her campaign contribution to Al Gore … evil Repbulican smear tactic #31, according to the Karl Rove playbook … Campaign finance violations … Al Gore …nuns, then the NOCs …
The press’s amicus brief regarding Plame’s cover being ‘blown’ a while back in the 90s would support her being pulled back at that particular time.
I don’t know if that counts as a talking point.
Tim F
Try it once more, but coherent.
Marc
Yes, Wilson was an ambassador under George H.W. Bush. Clearly a Republican partisan.
And if pointing out that the administration was pushing the country to war on completely fabricated charges is a little “embarrassing” to the Bush team, then boo hoo for them.
DougJ
“Yes, Wilson was an ambassador under George H.W. Bush. Clearly a Republican partisan.”
He became one of those anti-war loonie lefties. Maybe because he didn’t get the position he wanted in the George W Bush administration.
The Disenfranchised Voter
PS – mimi and DougJ are un-American.
eileen from OH
Before he went to the White House, Ronald Reagan often wore tights, supposedly for his posture. However, even Nancy couldn’t explain why he donned the rest of the matador costume, nor his insistence on being addressed as “El Ronno The Magnificent.”
eileen from OH
Sojourner
No. Let me explain this to you s l o w l y…
He became a Democratic supporter because the Bushies outed his wife, hosing her career, and because he believed that Bush lied to the American people – a position which the majority of Americans share.
Duh.
Otto Man
Or maybe he opposed the war because he understood it was premised on a pack of lies?
No, no. I’m sure it was all about his poor hurt feelings.
DougJ
“and because he believed that Bush lied to the American people – a position which the majority of Americans share.”
Then, why, pray tell, was Bush reelected. I think you’re engaging in a little left-wing wishful thinking.
When this is all over and done with, when Rove has been cleared of all wrong-doing or, in the very worst-case scenario, convicted and subsequently pardoned, I’ll be sitting back and laughing as a fillibuster proof Senate meets in 2007.
J. Michael Neal
I have no idea if Michael Barone is lying or just mistaken, but he is way, way behind the curve. Take this paragraph:
Moreover, the report that Wilson sent the CIA said that Iraq had sought to buy uranium in Niger in 1998, unsuccessfully; agency analysts concluded, not unreasonably, that this strengthened rather than weakened the case against Saddam.
how many times does this have to be corrected? The report said that Iran (that’s with an “n”) sought to buy uranium from Niger. Given the prominence of the corrections, it’s impossible to take anything else in this piece seriously.
Ridge
John-
While I admire your efforts to come to some consensus about Plame/Rove, by reprinting the desperate spin by the GOP, you are continuing the spread of lies used to try and obscure the real issues in the matter.
example-
Barone wrote-
“But Wilson, like Oates, lied. His Times article said he had been sent by the CIA at the request of Vice President Dick Cheney. But Cheney denies he made any such request, and former CIA Director George Tenet said the trip was initiated inside the agency.”
What Wilson said-
“In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney’s office had questions about a particular intelligence report. While I never saw the report, I was told that it referred to a memorandum of agreement that documented the sale of uranium yellowcake
DJ
OMFG JOHN YOU DRANK TEH KOOLAID TALKING POINTS!!11!SHIFT!
Bob
DougJ, the Republicans spend a week saying that Wilson lied when he said that Cheney sent him to Niger. When it’s demonstrably proven that it’s a lie your response is that he’s a partisan hack. What does that make the partisan hacks that have been lying for a week? Honest patriots?
By the way, DougJ, the latest ABC poll says that 25% of the American public thinks that Bush is cooperating with the investigation. I guess the other 75% are partisan hacks.
DougJ
“I guess the other 75% are partisan hacks.”
No, but who wouldn’t believe that after all the anti-Rove propaganda the liberal MSM has been shoving down their throats all week. Rove has been drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion. What was it Clarence Thomas said about high-tech lynchings?
HH
More right wing spin slandering the patriot Joe Wilson and no-spin guy Marshall…
Sojourner
Hey Dougie: Check the poll numbers on Bush’s honesty. 41% think he is. I guess the other 59% didn’t get the jobs they wanted in the Bush administration.
Sojourner
I remain fascinated that the right-wing “patriots” defend the outing of a CIA agent. What’s with that? i thought we were supposed to protect our own? I thought we were supposed to be afraid of WMD, Plame’s specialty? It can’t be that you guys are mere partisans, can it?
Sojourner
Turns out Thomas lied under oath about his pornography viewing habits. Bad choice for an example.
Russell
I don’t care if Joseph Wilson lied.
I don’t care if Valerie Plame was working a desk job when Rove gave her name up.
I don’t care how Rove found out that Plame was Wilson’s wife.
I don’t care if Plame recommended Wilson for the Niger trip or not.
It’s all a lot of pissy, he-said she-said bullshit.
Dig this:
1). Karl Rove disclosed the name of a CIA employee who had done highly classified work in the area of WMD proliferation. He had not business even having that information, let alone offering it to a newspaper reporter.
2). Rove gave up Plame’s name to discredit Wilson’s public statements about the nuclear WMD intelligence Bush was using to justify going to war.
What the f*^k else needs to be said?
In something like fairly short order, Fitzgerald will take some action based on the grand jury proceedings. He may charge Rove, he may not. If charge, Rove may be convicted, or not.
Regardless of what, if anything comes of the grand jury proceedings, points (1) and (2), see above, stand as fact.
Rove is a venal, partisan, Machiavellian son of a bitch, one in a generation-long line of the same employed by the Republicans generally and the Bush family in particular. If he’s hoist by his own petard, he’s only himself to blame.
Don’t waste your breath defending him.
As an aside, I will lay odds that, in the event that Rove ends up going down, it will take Bush approximately one femtosecond to cut him loose and put about 10 miles of distance between Rove and himself.
Nice guy, that.
And no, I don’t know why this post is centered.
Cheers –
DougJ
“I thought we were supposed to be afraid of WMD, Plame’s specialty?”
Maybe we would have found some if she’d done a better job.
HH
“I don’t care if Valerie Plame was working a desk job when Rove gave her name up.”
Thanks for the honesty, if only others on your side would do the same. Covert, shmovert, it’s all about taking down Rove.
ppGaz
The status of the agent is not tied to the job she is currently assigned to. “Undercover” status can remain in place long after the actual covert ops assignment.
WAPO
Get a fucking clue. This information has been out there for 20 months, and it took me 30 seconds to find it on Google.
Jesus H Christ!
DougJ
ppGaz: So what? Politics is a contact sport. Careers get destroyed. That’s life in the big city. What matters is that Saddam’s torture chambers have been closed forever. What matters is that freedom is on the march.
ppGaz
ABC News Poll, as reported by Markos:
DougJ
No, ppGaz, the problem is the kool-aid the liberal MSM is peddling.
When all the facts come out, I expect a swift backlast against both the liberals in Congress and their foot soldiers in the MSM.
ppGaz
A little over the top there, Doug :-)
You’re blowing your OWN cover.
DougJ
“You’re blowing your OWN cover.”
I’ve got something here you can blow, ppGaz.
Sojourner
What else are you willing to destroy for politics? Now I understand why you’re such a huge Karl Rove fan. You don’t have any ethics either.
Tough guy with no ethics = piece of shit human being. Congratulations.
ppGaz
Yes, uh, sorry, I’ll have to take a rain check.
But I’ll tell Darrell and Rick you’re in the mood.
DougJ
ppGaz, you disappoint me. A more quick-witted liberal would have said something back about Jeff Gannon.
ppGaz
I thought you WERE Jeff Gannon.
DougJ
Time for me go to bed. It’s been a pleasure, ppGaz.
Don’t take that the wrong way.
Kimmitt
Man, gay-baiting righties just never gets old, it really doesn’t.
Russell
Well, this has been astoundingly pointless.
I thought I’d try a post here because John’s comments are consistently thoughtful and intelligent. My assumption was that the discourse among the commenters might be similar.
Sorry, my mistake.
Bye. And, don’t worry, the door won’t hit me in the ass on the way out, because I’m already gone.
Cheers –
Blue Neponset
As you have noted before John, this is a tough story for the Repubs to spin. I think that is because there isn’t much wiggle room regarding this issue.
It really comes down to one question:
Was it wrong for Karl Rove to discuss the identity of a CIA operative with a reporter or not?
There are a few reasons why it would be OK, but I haven’t yet heard anyone mention one of them. Most of the arguments on the Pro-Rove side sound more like excuses than explanations.