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You are here: Home / Dumbest Persyn On the InterTrons

Dumbest Persyn On the InterTrons

by John Cole|  August 8, 20057:45 pm| 29 Comments

This post is in: General Stupidity

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Amanda Marcotte.

Read my original post. Read the moronic response. And I mean moronic in the most gender neutral manner possible.

That, folks, is what it looks like when you take the short yellow bus to your Womyn’s Studies classes.

A.) I never advocated the study was accurate. Lindsay Beyerstein claims it is.
B.) I did state that it was anti-intellectual to jump the gun and call a study sexist before having read it.
C.) I think the re-writes of the study that appeared in the Scotsman and elsewhere are crap.
D.) Calling a study ‘cute,’ ‘self-serving,’ and ‘sexist,’ before even reading it is anti-intellectualism.
F.) Only in the weird world of Amanda Marcotte is having one author of a website ‘suggesting’ something to the other author an attempt to ‘control the womenfolk.’

The Scotsman article was stupid and a load of bullshit. So was Amanda’s response, to simply dismiss the study because of the article, without having read the actual study. And her utter inability to recognize that, and to simply launch into another one of her public displays of victimhood is precisely what I meant when I described her as a ‘feminist caricature.’

At least Amanda and I agree on one thing- there are many ‘layers of stupid’ here. I doubt we agree where those layers start and end.

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Reader Interactions

29Comments

  1. 1.

    db

    August 8, 2005 at 7:51 pm

    My frickin’ God! “Moronic Response?”

    please, that is insulting to morons!!

  2. 2.

    db

    August 8, 2005 at 7:56 pm

    There are lots of things that make me ashamed to admit I have ever voted for the right. There are things like this that make me ashamed to admit I have ever voted for the left.

    The comments I have read from readers on this topic today have been insightful and, for the most part, respectful of other persons’ points of view.

    If I could somehow make all the thoughtful readers of Balloon-Juice rulers of the world….

  3. 3.

    ppGaz

    August 8, 2005 at 8:00 pm

    First of all, men who think their penis makes them super-special shouldn’t be lining up

    Is she making a political comment, or composing a singles ad?

    Helluva straight line, really.

    Proudly glad I don’t have to sit down to pee since 1946, I remain, not-so-special ppGaz.

  4. 4.

    SeesThroughIt

    August 8, 2005 at 8:05 pm

    Look, that giant chip has an Amanda Marcotte-shaped thing attached to it!

  5. 5.

    Pelikan

    August 8, 2005 at 8:25 pm

    Dickthink?
    ..

    ..

    I’ll say it again, some of you on this site, both right and left may be assholes, but at least you all sound like real people.

    I can’t imagine anyone outside of a very small classroom using the word dickthink with a straight face.

    ..

    Amanda, if you read these comments, please stop blogging for about a year and go talk to some people outside of your little clique, we’re not that bad.

  6. 6.

    Jack Roy

    August 8, 2005 at 8:31 pm

    It pains me to sell out a fellow liberal, but you’re exactly right about her. And it’s frickin’ infuriating for those of us who think feminism is a little more respectable than that cartoon makes it look to have her get such unthinking dittoes from her (rather childish) readership.

  7. 7.

    SomeCallMeTim

    August 8, 2005 at 8:40 pm

    Amanda pulls the gendered trigger a bit faster than I’m comfortable with, but, as your post included this:

    “And maybe this will help some of you understand the corrosive impact of identity politics that Jeff Goldstein has been talking about for the past few days. Probably not.”

    it’s hard to say that you had a particularly good point either. Ideological splits are nothe same a sexism (or racism or homophobia or whatever); conflating them is silly.

  8. 8.

    Jane Finch

    August 8, 2005 at 8:52 pm

    As a pinko feminazi of the first degree, the last thing I’d call you is sexist. If anything, you’re an equal opportunity offender, which is as it should be.

  9. 9.

    james richardson

    August 8, 2005 at 9:09 pm

    let’s not judge the whole of pandagon on one response please. we can all link to articles by our favorite bloggers that make our jaws hit the floor.

  10. 10.

    db

    August 8, 2005 at 9:19 pm

    “let’s not judge the whole of pandagon on one response please. we can all link to articles by our favorite bloggers that make our jaws hit the floor.”

    PANDAGON SUCKS ON HAIRY, SWEATY NUTSACKS!!… [Send that to Pandagon to link to]

    I understand your point but, still, when someone posts something that is jawdropping, is called on it, and then goes on to defend said statement…. well, what else is there to say?

  11. 11.

    John Cole

    August 8, 2005 at 9:25 pm

    Well- clearly I still read Pandagon. The original post that started this was about a point about Horowitz that Jesse and I agreed upon

  12. 12.

    Tulie

    August 8, 2005 at 9:33 pm

    If you’ll take the time to read the posts and comments on Amanda’s threads, she states pretty clearly she was reacting to an article ABOUT THE STUDY. Not the study. And she says, again in pretty plain English, that the story was taking a viewpoint the study does not, and that the study is intriguing. The entry may not have been the most clearly written on the planet, but neither are some of yours. Or anyone else’s.
    But it will be amusing to see just how many men take the chance of this comment thread to play a nice round of bash the feminist freak.

  13. 13.

    John Cole

    August 8, 2005 at 9:40 pm

    Tulie, from Amanda’s original post:

    This may be the cutest study yet demonstrating that men simply can’t be normal human beings and have to be coddled by women because they are simple-minded morons.

    and

    I love these studies that try so very hard to excuse behavior that stems directly from male dominance—I know from experience that a man’s willingness to listen to women is inversely proportional to his sexist belief that women are stupid and have nothing of value to say.

    and

    The thing that I find so funny about these self-serving studies about how men “naturally” have to be assholes and losers is the stench of desperation.

    Only as a throwaway does she come back later and recognize the distinction between the study and the idiotic news write-up.

    Furthermore, how was she in any position to know whether the newspaper article was accurate or not? She hadn’t read the damned study.

  14. 14.

    Stormy70

    August 8, 2005 at 10:09 pm

    Maybe she needs some dickthink in her life. She might be less uptight. ;)

  15. 15.

    BumperStickerist

    August 8, 2005 at 10:16 pm

    Amanda seems to forget that women hold only a Bushian 51% of the population, a slender majority at best.

    This gives lie to Ms. Marcotte’s opening salvo:

    This may be the cutest study yet demonstrating that men simply can’t be normal human beings and have to be coddled by women because they are simple-minded morons.

    Well, who defines ‘normal’ human beings in so closely split a populace? Is Amanda so vulvafied that she simply takes as granted that the female perspective on ‘normal’ is definitive?

    Let’s find out:
    ___________________________

    Luckily, I can’t carry a tune for shit, so I guess men have to actually listen to me. This statement is about to be directly contradicted by Amanda.
    ___________________________

    In the next sentence.

    Who says women don’t reserve the right to change their minds?

    ___________________________

    I love these studies that try so very hard to excuse behavior that stems directly from male dominance–I know from experience that a man’s willingness to listen to women is inversely proportional to his sexist belief that women are stupid and have nothing of value to say.
    ____________________________

    Well, men – as a class – apparently have managed to not listen to Amanda, despite her non-melodious manner of speech.

    Also, is it me or does Amanda find it easier to deal with Men as a group rather than men as individuals?

    _______________________________

    The thing that I find so funny about these self-serving studies about how men “naturally” have to be assholes and losers is the stench of desperation.
    ________________________________

    Amanda, apparently, does not read ‘Cosmo’. The stench of desperation sells a lot of women’s magazines.

    ________________________________

    In the past, male dominance was asserted as a natural fact because women were considered stupid, lustful, and generally inferior.
    _________________________________

    Women, being the majority of the population, have had the ability to change this condition, if they were smart enough to figure it out – I don’t know, maybe women were too busy being lustful to figure that out.

    ______________________________

    Now in an effort to obtain female tolerance for lousy behavior, the official line is that men have to be indulged because their bodies make them mean, lustful, and incapable of interacting with their partners.
    ______________________________

    … and women can’t check to see if the toilet seat is *down* before peeing because …

    ______________________________

    I can’t imagine that men are going to tolerate being told that they are stupid, mean, shallow assholes by nature much longer.
    ______________________________

    Right. Amanda, we tell each other that we’re stupid, mean, and shallow assholes by nature every day. And we tell ourselves that, too – with male voices, which we can hear and process.

    Apparently, females telling us the same thing will matter, how?

    __________________________________

    And nor do I see how these theories are supposed to convince women to just accept awful male behavior. If men are really this bad, then there’s no real reason for women to deal with them at all.
    __________________________________

    We’re back to that ‘lustful’ thing again.

    Then again, a more careful observer might consider the opposite of the premise ‘If men are really this bad” and think ‘No, I guess men really aren’t that bad’.

    And, in a best case scenario, might think ‘Well, this one particular man is the least loathesome male creature I’ve ever met, I’d like to go out on a date with it, er … him’

    _________________________________

    Luckily, these EP theories are a bunch of bullshit and men aren’t actually born unable to be anything other than humping, mean-spirited animals.
    __________________________________

    Maybe Amanda needs to read her Desmond Morris, watch The Discover Channel, find out that adolescent male dolphins have been known to gang rape female dolphins, and consider the irony that it’s women who have been raising the boys throughout history.

    Though, maybe expecting men to not be women would be a good place to start.

  16. 16.

    John Cole

    August 8, 2005 at 10:17 pm

    Great Stormy. I will get blamed for that comment, and only readers here know that you aren’t an ‘angry white male.’

  17. 17.

    Sinequanon

    August 8, 2005 at 10:23 pm

    Frankly, this is the kind of pseudo – femistist crap that no one should pay attention to as it actually hurts women’s reality-based causes.

  18. 18.

    db

    August 8, 2005 at 10:32 pm

    Tulie:

    And she says, again in pretty plain English,

    Well, being cursed with the Y-chromosone, I apparently am not only incapable of hearing what Amanda has to say but also what she has to write…

  19. 19.

    Mr Furious

    August 8, 2005 at 10:48 pm

    Yeah, Amanda got a lot of hype (or so it seemed–maybe it was just from Ezra and Jesse) before joining Pandagon. I had checked her previous site “mousewords” (?) a few times through links, and she seemed pleasant enough…even added it to my bookmarks.

    Then Ezra went solo and Amanda took his spot. It was okay at first, but slow shift took hold, and it really seems like she dominates the site over Jesse now, and often coming only through her increasingly tilting feminist POV.

    A shame really, because when Ezra and Jesse were clicking together they did their best work, and Pandagon was one of the most enjoyable reads around.

  20. 20.

    Tulie

    August 8, 2005 at 11:01 pm

    Also from Amanda’s original post:

    Edited to add–I should have been clear–the article on the study is sexist. No telling yet if the study itself has value.

    Ever edited a post after commenter feedback? I’m a regular reader of Pandagon, and it had been edited by the time I read it that afternoon.

    From comments made by Amanda:

    But the story was cute rationalizations and didn’t present itself as anything but. The actual study, as this post notes, is kind of strange but interesting.

    There is time spent on problems with the study – no evaluation of how females hear male/female voices, no testing for comprehension of the words spoken.
    Like I said before, not the most clearly written post. But deserving of this sort of reaction? Someone is protesting a bit too much.

  21. 21.

    Stormy70

    August 8, 2005 at 11:03 pm

    Great Stormy. I will get blamed for that comment, and only readers here know that you aren’t an ‘angry white male.’

    Always trying to help you out, John. Can you hear me, though? Do feminine voices come through the keyboard, thus getting tuned out by the men? They ought to do a study. I’ll do it for some crazy grant money.

  22. 22.

    John Cole

    August 8, 2005 at 11:05 pm

    Tulie- I am reacting HERE to her reaction. My original post stated the following, and nothing more about this issue:

    Via Jesse Taylor at Pandagon, who is quite exercised about this, which is only slightly ironic considering the a priori dismissal of a scientific study yesterday by feminist caricature and Pandagon co-author Amanda Marcotte. Perhaps we could implore Jesse to pass on some of his respect for the academy to his co-author, and maybe then she will actually read studies before labeling them ‘cute,’ ‘self-serving,’ and ‘sexist,’ even if on first glance they appear to conflict with her dogmatic worldview.

    From that, we got the ‘new’ Amanda post. I might ask? Was that deserving of this reaction?

  23. 23.

    ppGaz

    August 8, 2005 at 11:52 pm

    Do feminine voices come through the keyboard, thus getting tuned out by the men?

    Didn’t you — not that long ago — pipe up that nobody here thought you were “a chick” until you pointed it out to them? “Do I sound like a dude?” I think you said.

    But all seriousess aside, if you hadn’t said so, or mentioned a husband, I’m not sure I would have figured it out.

    Whether that answers our question or not, I have no idea.

  24. 24.

    Cutler

    August 9, 2005 at 12:24 am

    To be honest, I thought she was male until that last post, course I haven’t hung out here that much.

  25. 25.

    Katherine

    August 9, 2005 at 1:35 am

    It’s not so crazy to misinterpret a stupid article describing a study for a stupid study.

    I’m not a big fan of hers. I agree with a lot of what she says, but there’s a refusal to engage honestly with the other side which really irritates me.

    Of course, most of the blogs on your blogroll share that. But I thought Jesse’s humor and Ezra’s earnestness complemented each other well.

  26. 26.

    Geek, Esq.

    August 9, 2005 at 1:45 am

    JC absolutely had the better of the exchange. I’m a liberal and engaged to a radical feminist (you should see the loyalty oath I had to sign!) but sloppy, undisciplined junk like that post offends me–especially when it comes from my side of the divide.

    That said, Bill and Jeff’s misogynistic, frat boy “why don’t you get laid honey” routine was even less clever.

    There’s no need to call feminists sex-starved, no need to call Michael Moore a fatso–just like there’s no need to call Bush Chimpy McCokespoon.

  27. 27.

    Ellie Dee

    August 9, 2005 at 11:55 am

    Feh, Amanda Marcotte. She has the mind of a 5 year old sent to bed without dessert. I find my days are better when I don’t read Pandagon, but sometimes my morbid curiosity takes over. Then I regret it. It’s only funny until you realize the blog is not a parody.

    And as unfair as Stormy’s comment was (yes, I know it was in humor and sarcastic) it is the exact sort of thing Amanda usually brings up. “Anytime a man disagrees with me, he’s sexist. And he’s sexist because he has a tiny penis!” But whereas Stormy was joking, I get the feeling Mandy isn’t.

    Fight fire with fie, I always say.

  28. 28.

    Off Colfax

    August 9, 2005 at 6:15 pm

    Yeah, Amanda got a lot of hype (or so it seemed—maybe it was just from Ezra and Jesse) before joining Pandagon. I had checked her previous site “mousewords” (?) a few times through links, and she seemed pleasant enough…even added it to my bookmarks.

    Then Ezra went solo and Amanda took his spot. It was okay at first, but slow shift took hold, and it really seems like she dominates the site over Jesse now, and often coming only through her increasingly tilting feminist POV.

    A shame really, because when Ezra and Jesse were clicking together they did their best work, and Pandagon was one of the most enjoyable reads around.

    Mr. Furious says it all for me… I’d take Pandagon off my blogroll entirely if it wasn’t for Jesse still having 33% of the posts. But if it ever dips below a weekly average of 20%, then I’d pretty much give up on it.

    Can a RSS feed be filtered by author on a multi-author site? If so, there goes all my worries. I can read Jesse and not even see what Amanda writes.

Comments are closed.

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  1. Balloon Juice says:
    August 26, 2005 at 1:33 pm

    […] Then again, there is always the possibility that Amanda Marcotte was one of the subjects, and she just dragged down the female scores. […]

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