I have a sinus headache, so I have been parked on the couch sedated since 4 this afternoon, and basically just channel-surfing (reading makes my head hurt worse, for whatever reason). At any rate, Grease just came on HBO, and I swear I have not seen it since 82-84 (also on HBO then). I remember watching it as a kid, and thinking it was a really dirty movie. We were really acting wild as kids (I was 12ish then) watching it.
At any rate, I am watching it now, and it really is easy to see why folks like Brent Bozell blow a gasket about every perceived display of vulgarity on television. Grease, by today’s standards, is a kids show.
I don’t think that makes Bozell and his guys right when they wage their silly wars, and I don’t know if there is any way to really judge whether we are worse or better off because times have changed. Not to mention, we simply aren’t going to turn back. Likewise, I am sure someone 20 years older than me could point to a show from the 50’s and make the same sort of claim I am making here.
But it is illustrative of how much things have changed, and how little time it has taken for the change to happen. America is changing, and fast. Our culture, our values, our way of life. I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing, but when you sit back and look at things, it does go a long way to explain the sometimes incoherent rage expressed by certain segments of society about the ‘coarsening of the culture.’
The United States of 2005 isn’t the United States of 1978 as expressed in Grease. And it is a long way from the USA of the 60’s and 50’s, which a lot of people seem to peg as the glory years. While I prefer the technological advancements and the advances in individual rights (particularly for previously marginalized groups), we have lost a lot of what could alternately be characterized as innocence or naivete.
Back to the couch.
(BTW- I do think a particular scene in The Postman Always Rings Twice is the filthiest thing I have ever watched).
I should add that my mother, who has been to hundreds of Broadway shows, hates Grease. “I don’t like it. They took a perfectly nice girl and turned her into someone who looks like a slut.”
jobiuspublius
Change does not automatically or insightfully explain rage.
jobiuspublius
Sinus Headache => Open Thread?
Good luck with your sinus headache.
KC
Yeah, good luck. I’ve been having major sinus issues since I moved from the coast to Sacramento. Trust me, in terms of allergies and headaches, I’ve been regretting that move everyday since. Also, I’ve never seen The Postman Always Rings Twice, what’s so filthy about it?
tzs
Ouch, my sympathies. Suggestion: lots of mint tea and hot water bottles against the sinus cavities. The hotter the better.
ppGaz
Change is the only constant.
I have no sympathy for those who can’t tolerate it.
My grandmother thought that Elvis Presley was the advent of Satan. Her mother thought that women bathing in public was the advent of Satan.
Innocence and naivete are just forms of sentimentalism. The world is what it is. One can fear it and hate it, or embrace it, it’s a choice.
The 1950’s were not the “glory years.” They were bubble years, during which some people had it made, and others were screwed. Martin Luther King did not march and make speeches to inspire people who thought they were living in the glory years. They thought they were getting fucked …. and they were.
One person’s personal perspective is not another person’s reality.
ppGaz
There are two versions, the original with John Garfield and Lana Turner, and the remake with Jack Nicholson and Jessica Lange. The original is the better movie, but Nicholson and Lange are probably what John is referring to.
SomeCallMeTim
Anyway, people who are uncomfortable with modernity have options. They just need to exercise them.
KC
PpGaz, what’s so filthy about the Nicholson/Lange remake though?
Stormy70
You know, I grew up watching rated R movies, Jaws and 10 being a couple of them. I am normal, but I do like the more violent tv fare, like Deadwood and The Sopranos. Lifetime Chick flicks just suck. When I have children, I will take care of their TV habits. I don’t need a nanny state monitoring my adult tv shows right now.
Seal Pool
Sure there was innocence and naivite, but only in the movies. Today’s media are just closer to the truth.
I mean, haven’t you ever stuck your hand up someone’s crotch while French kissing them on the dinner table? People do it all the time. Much more often than they unload a Walther PPK into someone’s sternum, and yet folks don’t seem to mind seeing that on their broadcast TV every day. They think it makes for good children’s entertainment too.
But god forbid an 8 year-old should see some pubic hair.
KC
Stormy, I’m totally with you. Nobody’s forcing anyone to watch a movie with violence or nudity in it. I have to make a lousy 2 for 1 deal with my girlfriend just to rent certain movies (2 of hers for 1 of mine). I don’t need any more regulations on my viewing habits.
ppGaz
Well, the movie has what one reviewer described as “steamy sex scenes.” I dunno, John will have to answer, to me they were just steamy movie sex scenes. I’ve seen steamier. But Nicholson is, you know, Nicholson. A certain animal quality about him.
The 1946 version has no steamy sex scenes, but to me the subtle suggestion is a lot sexier than the remade “passion.” And of course, there’s
Lana Turner
Jackmormon
we have lost a lot of what could alternately be characterized as innocence or naivete.
Who’s this “we”? I had a very similar reaction to seeing Grease for the first time at 12, and that would be in the late 1980s. My sister’s children, who are not allowed to watch any TV programming that she doesn’t rent out on DVD for them, will probably have the same reaction to Grease if they see it at 12.
A lot of the TV programming right now, as Stormy70 says above, is aimed at adults. There is a lot of excellent programming for adults, and it’s sucking the revenues out of our increasingly lame movie industry.
Andrew J. Lazarus
I recommend azithromycin. Skip the weak stuff.
My 13-y.o. threw a fit when I wouldn’t let him join his buddies for Team America. It’s not just the sexual content, but the sheer leering smuttiness of it.
Ancient Purple
I guess it really all depends on how you were raised. Since my parents were rather cutting-edge in educating my siblings and me about sex rather early on in life, I still to this day never understood the controversy over “Grease.” I thought Olivia Newton-John looked great as the poodle-skirt girl and the leather-clad femme fatale. To each his/her own, I guess.
For my money, I thought that some of the best TV in the past decade was “Sex in the City.” It was honest, uncomfortable, in-your-face stories of women looking for Mr. Right in New York City. Yet, I know people who thought that a show like that should never have been aired and supported their position with claptrap like, “Won’t someone think of the children?”
Oh, please.
Joe Albanese
I actually find myself agreeing with Stormy and John Cole at the same time. Now that has got to be a first. I would never want to go back to those supposed halcyon days of segregation, McCarthyism and Levittown and I do enjoy entertainment that engages my adult intellect, but it sure is difficult raising children in a culture that seems to be completely obsessed with sexuality.
bains
Speaking of Nicholson and… animal qualities, and disturbing scenes, ppGaz, and John for this matter – umm you’ve seen Carnal Knowledge I suspect…
per Grease, Olivia rocks in lycra.
Stormy70
Prison Break premieres tonight. Set the Tivos, it’s getting good buzz. It’s on Fox at 8pm Eastern. 20 minutes from now. I am so ready for the new shows this season. I may have to fire up the Replay tv along with the dual DVR. Greatest invention evah.
Horshu
LastTangoInParis
ppGaz
Buffed butt-buddies, criminals. Right up your, uh, alley, Storm. Your version of Young Republicans at camp?
Seal Pool
How can you fight a culture obsessed with sexuality when it’s made up of people obsessed with sexuality?
God gave us sex organs so we could use ’em. And this sex drive he installed in us is not turned on during puberty for nothing.
We need more honest sexuality everywhere, not just smut. And as long as sex is so taboo in the US, graphic sex will be relegated to the cold environment of pornography, and innuendo and coy peeks at Jessica Lange’s vagina will be served up for the masses.
Matt
John, your mom is right. The moral lesson of that movie is awful, and honestly as bad at its core (not necessarily on its surface) as much of the entertainment that Bozell and company rail against today.
Gary Farber
“America is changing, and fast. Our culture, our values, our way of life. I don’t think that is necessarily a bad thing, but when you sit back and look at things, it does go a long way to explain the sometimes incoherent rage expressed by certain segments of society about the ‘coarsening of the culture.’”
There’s a reason I keep this as one of the many quotes on the sidebar of my blog: “Our youth now loves luxuries. They have bad manners, contempt for authority. They show disrespect for elders and they love to chatter instead of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants, of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up their food, and tyrannize their teachers.”
— Socrates
By the way, don’t go see The Aristocrats, okay?
Boronx
I’m no film buff, but weren’t the seventies filled with ground-breaking taboo-breaking films as gritty as anything today?
IMHO, they had darker, uglier violence, more boobs, and would tackle most any subject that might be tackled today.
I’ve heard there was another such period right before the big Hollywood pics in the 30’s.
Maybe what you’re seeing has nothing to do with changing culture, but more to do with changing television.
Emma Zahn
The Zyrtec and Benedryl probably dried your sinuses out. Be careful what you take for the sinus headache or you may just aggravate it. It has happened to me a couple of times.
Sudafed makes a liquid gel that is non-drying. Another thing that will help dried out sinuses is Vitamin A — about 25000 iu.
…
Doug
“Ward, don’t you think you were a little hard on “The Beaver” last night?”
CaseyL
What blows my mind is how my generation – the Sex Drugs Rock ‘N Roll generation – grew up to be so prissy.
I have a theory that when people become parents, their brains release an enzyme that erases their memories of what they were like as teenagers. It astounds me that people really seem to think kids wouldn’t think about sex, wouldn’t talk about sex, wouldn’t have sex, and wouldn’t generally be obsessed with sex, if only we could somehow keep sex out of books, movies and TV shows.
DougJ
So true, so true. Most of the movies today are nothing but filth with none of the wit and charm of Grease and some of the other movies from that era.
Change is not always progress. We have gained technology, but at such a price, not only is our innocence gone but signs abound of moral decline: more drug use, a higher crime rate, ever more provocative clothes, and a loss of all respect for the English language. I’m not sure who to blame, but it’s hard not to notice that a lot of this began when they took prayer out of school. I’m not saying it’s the only reason, but it’s got to be part of the equation.
jobiuspublius
“(BTW- I do think a particular scene in The Postman Always Rings Twice is the filthiest thing I have ever watched).”
================================================
Mary Carey. Saw her on Jon Stewarts show. I wanted to puke, and get tested for stds, typhoid, …..
Andrew J. Lazarus
Mary Carey is a Republican.
jobiuspublius
I know. hehehehehehe
Another Jeff
I grew up in an Irish/Italian neighborhood in SW Philly, tended bar at Irish bar in college and did six years with the Philly PD, so believe me, it’s not like profanity and all this other stuff bothers me, especially not considering how much i use it.
That being said, I do think one of the problems today is that too many shows try and push the envelope just for the sake of pushing it, not because it’s particularly relevant.
I peronally think the best show on TV is “The Wire” on HBO. Yes, it’s violent and loaded with profanity and all that, but it’s dealing with the drug culture in West Baltimore from the perspective of dealers and detectives. There’s no way to accurately tell that story without major violence and profanity.
But, my fiance is a big fan of some of the shows on F/X (Nip/Tuck, Rescue Me) and it seems that too much of them is just “hey, let’s say dick and shit and see if we can get away with it”. As i said, it doesn’t offend me, because i hear that stuff all the time, it’s just that they use it when there’s no point to it just because they can.
But, the fiance sat through all eleven dreadful Penn State football games last season and the season before without complaining, so i just watch and keep my mouth shut during her shows.
Stormy70
I kind of lost interest in Nip/Tuck last year because it became so over the top, and obvious with pushing the line. It became distracting. I will tune in this year and give it another chance. At least the shows on HBO use profanity in a believable manner, unlike most shows on prime time that overuse “ass” because it passes the censors. It seems forced, and it is bad writing. There are times when “ass” is called for, and times when it is not. ;)
Veeshir
The funny part? All those teachers and adults who said what that rock-and-roll would lead to this can now say there were correct.
That makes me laugh each and every time I think about it.
Narvy
Or not. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
Consider the possibility that taking prayer out of school (in my youth, it was always Christian prayer) and pushing the entertainment envelope (or transgressing the boundaries if you prefer) were both results of more basic cultural changes. Or that they were independent of one another, one suddenly being found to be unconstitutional and the other the result of money-making competition between providers of mass entertainment (combined with hypocrisy on the part of the mass audience).
Alexandra
I don’t think of smuttiness on TV in movies as a left-right issue, but as a parenting issue. I think the Sopranos is a great show–it’s really art in my opinion and I would not change it. It’s clear that it’s not a show for children and I think that’s fine. However, I do think there is so much coarse and inappropriate material all day and all night on television that it is hard to find much that IS good for kids. Yes, kids have to learn about sexuality, but not necessarily through dirty talk on television–there are much more human and humane ways to teach children about this part of life. My problem is not with the shows that are clearly for adults, but the fact that so often, there are embarrassing scenes or conversations or words that are thrown in in surprising or random places. Also, there are shows like Friends which look as if they should be kid friendly because they are comedies and because they come on at 6:00 or 7:00 at night, but which clearly are not. I have generally not let my kids watch much TV, maybe 3 hours or so a week if we rent a video or something, but we were on vacation last month and saw more television and found it very vulgar and inappropriate. We will not be allowing an increase in viewing any time soon!
Luddite
Stormy70 Says:
Lifetime Chick flicks just suck
Wait a minute Missy! Lifetime is about women overcoming adversity! Usually date rape.
Defense Guy
I realize that television viewing is difficult for parents with small children, but honestly it is nothing compared to the actual world. Watch TV with them, teach them the uncomfortable lessons and prepare them for what is to come. It ain’t easy, but is worth it.
My .02
That Olivia Newton John really is a whooore anyway.
DougJ
Certainly both are symptoms of the same disease: rampant liberal secularism.
Another Jeff
“Wait a minute missy! Lifetime is about women overcoming adversity.”
And for some reason, that woman who overcomes the adversity is almost always Patty Duke or the mom from “FAmily Ties”.
capelza
Yeah, prayer in schools will solve everything. With only a minority of people in this country actually attending churches, it would be just another feel good move that actually wouldn’t mean anything. Was a little girl when prayer was still said in the class every morning (after the SCOTUS disallowed it, btw.) It didn’t make a spit worth of difference, except to make kids who weren’t Protestants feel like they weren’t with the program. No thanks.
I think that as technology expanded exponentially, and the population as well, things that were actually the norm outside of a controlled media, as in television and the written word have become accepted in the “arts”. It isn’t neccessarily a decline, but a recognition of how the world really is. F**k isn’t a new word, and I heard it ( and all the other swear words) a lot from the barn or wherever the grown-ups were gathering for work or socialising (except when the preacher or priest was around…sometimes. I heard a few “Pardon my French” in that regard as well).
People had sex outside of marriage, the term “shotgun wedding” isn’t new either. Heck, didn’t Helen running off with Paris cause some sort of Ruckus?
Gary Farber’s Socrates quote says it best.
Defense Guy
Back it up, unless you are talking about Europe, and then nevermind.
capelza
Back it up? The figure is about 30% on average. Out here in the PNW it is very low (10 to 15%)..in the south it’s the highest. What’s to back up?
I say this as someone who does go to churh. I’m a very odd man (or woman as the case may be) out out here in Oregon.
Stormy70
All in a 2 hour package, with the “love of a lifetime” thrown in for good measure. Ugh! I’ll take The Sopranos with a double helping of Deadwood, you San Fransico C***suckers! I miss Wu.
He has juice.
Defense Guy
capelza
I don’t suppose you have a source do you? I’m actually in the ‘market’ for a church, having been away too long.
Defense Guy
Jews?
San Fransisco cocksucker not Jew, like wu.
sean
Stormy and DG –
did you know that the guy that plays Dan Dority in Deadwood is the same guy that played Warren in There’s Something About Mary??? i saw that on imdb.com the other day and was shocked. that is some actin’!!
jobiuspublius
Bull’s eye! This all about blaming the mirror. But, nobody has to spend all day in front of the mirror and certainly not naked.
DougJ
They had a piece on Fox about this — that 30% figure is a librul myth, that’s the percentage that attends every week. Over 90% attend at least occasionally.
capelza
Defense Guy. To be honest, the fear of John Cole coming on here telling me to “embed” my links, whatever that means, keeps me from posting links at all.
Google is your friend. (Don’t forget to check out the article on surveys that discusses the number of people who say they go to church because they think they should, but actually just roll over in the sack on Sunday morning :P) Though I’m curious why you’d need to know the number of folks who attend church would aid you in finding a church to attend.
DougJ…hahaha..going to a wedding or a funeral doesn’t count as church attendance. Your parody was slipping there.
DougJ
You’re probably right. That figure does seem high.