I have said I am out of touch with America regarding what is expected for disaster relief. Maybe, but the people spreading the meme that the vast majority of who did not evacuate New Orleans did so because they simply chose to ignore the warnings are out of touch with reality. I just heard James Carville state that the Governor and Mayor did all they could, and that some people “just didn’t listen.”
That may very well be. ‘Some people’ probably didn’t listen, and instead chose to just weather the storm. But the vast majority of people who are stranded, and, I fear, dead in the flooded parts of NO in numbers we have not yet begun to discover and comprehend, did not ‘choose’ to ‘ignore’ the warnings.
They simply had no place to go, no way to get there, no way to afford living in a motel/hotel somewhere else, no relatives outside the region, no automobile. I know it is always funny to make fun of the “Hurricane Strikes- Poor Hit Hardest” headlines, but there is some truth to it.
Sure, a lot of the people interviewed on cable may say they just stayed because they have seen all sorts of hurricanes. They may say that. But I am willing to bet a lot of them are just saying that to save face. Ever been broke? And I mean, chronically, long-term, without ANY money, broke? It sucks, and it can be embarassing, and it isn’t likely most people are going to admit it. I know most of you are affluent, but was there never a time in college when all your friends were going somewhere, going to a concert, going out, going on Spring Break, and you wanted to go, but couldn’t? Instead of saying “I’m broke,” how many of you said something like “I’ve got better things to do,” or “I hate Florida,” or made some other excuse?
So while ignorance, stupidity, and a disregard for warnings may have played a role (probably a more prominent one in the coastal regions of Mississippi and Alabama), I am betting that tragically there is a whole other reason for why people ‘chose’ not to evacuate New Orleans.
JBD
Absolutely right, John – thanks for saying it.
docG
Poverty sucks.
Makes you want to go out and start some programs to help out, doesn’t it? ;-)
BinkyBoy
John, you’re moving too far to the left again, are we going to have to find some Kos diarists for you to rail against?
Just kidding. Its nice to hear you bring this up, its amazing to see you more liberal than Carville, though.
JBD
John, don’t know if you saw it, but Mike Chertoff just came out and announced that “September is National Preparedness Month.” Apparently this is a planned thing, but seems like probably not the most opportune of moments for the announcement.
Demdude
Denial is a very strong emotion. It trumps reality far to often.
over it
I commented briefly on this somewhere else(perhaps even here). The fact that there are elderly and infirm(and poor) dying/dead because they were UNABLE to evacuate is, in my opinion(humble it is not), unconscionable. There is absolutely no excuse for this other than a distinct lack of proper planning. Disgusting.
The ones that were able but UNWILLING to evacuate are a whole other story….but are still deserving of better than what is happening.
MI
thanks, John. So many people in the media, and I think a lot of well off people in general, live in a bubble, and they’re just unable to grasp that lots of folks in America are straight up fuckin’ poor.
I’ve always thought Republicans were half right about the press being liberal elitists.
Anderson
*Carville* said that? Is he auditioning for Karl Rove’s job after the Plame indictments come down?
No wonder the Democratic Party is a failure.
Sam Hutcheson
To echo JBD, thanks for saying as much, John. Growing up in the most economically depressed section of southern Georgia, I have first hand knowledge of “being broke.” Some of my family still are. If something like Katrina came through down there, they might not even be able to afford gas to come stay with me in Atlanta for a while. Living up here in the shiny new suburbs, I find it’s difficult to convey the idea of poverty to many of my coworkers and neighbors. I don’t know if it’s the decades long indoctrination that “the poor have only themselves to blame — they shouldn’t be so lazy” we get from talk radio, or if its the fact that most people who were born to privelege just don’t understand what it’s like not to be, or what, but it seems impossible to explain to many suburbanites that, well, not everyone lives in a two-car garage home in Alpharetta.
In some ways, this wraps back around to the GA voting law discussion, and the problematic fact that it *assumes* that everyone who votes would have a car, and thus a license. It’s the assumption of middle class suburbia, to the detriment of lower classes, most of whom aren’t “just lazy.”
So again, thanks for pointing this out. There are of course some who just didn’t leave because they didn’t want to. But the majority simply couldn’t. And that’s the tragedy of this event.
Marcus Wellby
Carville’s comment is similiar to a lot of what I hear not only in the media but from others who have no concept at all what it is to be flat out broke.
Some people are in such dire straits that they will NEVER recover from this storm. Imagine living check to check, if you’ve never had to, and now imagine what life will be like if you’ve lost not only that job but whatever belongings you have. I am not even talking “luxeries” like a crappy stereo or 10 year old TV, I am talking about plates, cooking utensils, your clothes, shoes, bedding. Imagine needing to replace EVERYTHING you had, with no job and no money.
It is a total and complete distaster for so many people. But luckily, the oil companies won’t need to face even a minor a drop in profits, so I guess all is well in America.
As the reality sets in regarding the displaced poor, you can count on the media to demonize the poor as ignorant or maniacal potential looters. Class must be hidden from public view, to do otherwise would just be “socialist”.
Otto Man
Thanks for once again reminding me of the chasm between you and Jonah Goldberg. His stupidity on this issue is just mind-boggling. Not only does he clutch his hanky to his chest, crying that no one cares for the rich, but then he mocks the poor as “extra-special” in the media’s eyes.
Mr.Ortiz
You’re right, but I’d like to make the broader point that it doesn’t matter why they stayed, chastising the victims is an ugly, boneheaded thing to do.
demimondian
You know, I must be radically out of touch.
Let’s keep something in perspective: 80% of New Orleans evacuated. Eighty-freaking-percent! Yes, it was a mandatory evacuation, but–where were the cops dragging people out of houses? That’s a *mandatory* evacuation. This was more of a “get out, even if you can’t afford it, because this could be the end of the world and we’re serious, so we’re telling you it’s mandatory” evacuation.
And people got out. They trusted their incompetent, corrupt, hated mayor, and their crooked, lying, racist police, and even Chimpy McHallibushton’s cronies up in DC…and *they got out*.
I keep being stunned by that, because I’ve been flat broke, so flat broke that I have to choose between eating and buying a hard-to-find reference book. (Yes, of course, I bought the book.) It’s hard to make those choices, and it’s really easy to say “I’ve been through this before”, while ignoring that little voice in the back of your head is saying “not this bad, d00d.”
zzyzx
I’ve been broke enough that I have gone without food for days. I’ve been homeless (albeit a comfortable homelessness) and have had to spare change before. If something like this had happened to me then, I don’t know what I’d do.
I can understand the vast difference between having to raid my savings and live in a suboptimal city for a few months and being incredibly hurt over losing irreplacable objects, and being stuck in a leaking football stadium with tens of thousands of people, some of whom have guns and not knowing where the next meal is coming from or where I can go.
Jcricket
Thanks for saying this John, I agree with you. I wish there wasn’t lawlessness and looting going on, but I do understand some degree of it. Desperate times and a complete breakdown of city services have definitely created a situation where some people are looting to survive, and others have just allowed their baser instincts to take over.
I really fear for those in hospitals or shelters who now need to evacuate. Hopefully the Natl Guard will bring some order to the town in the next day.
I’ve been to NOLA a number of times and the amount of poverty is just staggering. States like LA and MI are perpetually poor because they are unable to even tax themselves out of poverty (not enough middle or upper-class people), if they wanted to. Even states like Alabama are dealing with this issue (deep poverty hard to overcome without raising taxes on everyone else).
So, I really can’t imagine how those two states are going to recover from this in any way that resembles how things “used to be”.
People who have lost all their possessions and their homes have likely also lost the only jobs they had, and/or family members they relied on for shared income, etc. I think we’ve, sadly, only begun to see the devastation.
Wrye
Well said, John. Others have said similar things on the same theme, but this one can’t be said often enough and widely enough. The bus station and the airport were closed on Saturday; what were people without cars and a spare month’s rent for hotels supposed to do-walk out of the city? People were taking taxis to Texas because they had no other way to escape-does that sound like an affordable option for 100% of the population?
I don’t think we’ve even begin to hear the last of this.
Joel
Good post. The orgy of finger-pointing over the past few days has been pretty dismaying.
Mr Furious
Good points all around. people. Thoughtful threads like this are the reason Balloon juice is this lefty’s favorite blog.
Vladi G
Then again, maybe they stayed because, hey, no one could have anticipated the breach of the levees. The President himself said so.
jobiuspublius
What do you expect from Mary Matlins wife?
Thx, for this Mr. Cole. Your heart’s in the right place. Any chance you could replace Allen?
doghouse riley
I think, frankly, that the magnitude of what was happening, and what was about to happen, took a while to sink in. People imagined this was just another bad hurricane, live through it, bury the dead, get on with rebuilding.
That’s understandable in the casual newswatcher. It’s absolutely unforgiveable in people who are responsible for emergency response.
And Carville’s a Southerner. He ought to have known better. I hope the images of all the “stupid people who brought this on themselves”, the elderly, the sick, mothers and infants, the uniformly poor, will be giving him nightmares for weeks if they allow him to sleep at all.
capelza
Carville is being an asshat. He should know better than that.
Brian
One has to view merely 10 minutes of video footage from New Orleans to see the glaringly obvious amount of poor, primarily black faces out there. They are lost, helpless, hungry, and increasingly desperate. I don’t believe that these people “chose” this for themselves. Their circumstances chose their predicament.
Last week, I cracked a new book on the San Francisco earthquake and fire of 1906. The quake wasn’t necessarily the tragedy. It was the subsequent fire and lawlessness. The richest layer of the city took control of government and restructured the city to their liking, all the while keeping the financial institutions in New York (which could be counted on to lend for rebuilding efforts) in the dark as to how badly things had deteriorated. The poor were pushed aside, allowed to fend for themselves, even to die quietly and anonymously. The goal was to rebuild ASAP, without regard to protecting the city and its poor from future disasters.
The same won’t necessarily happen in Katrina’s aftermath, thanks to the vastness of our media and the role of FEMA, but the poor in the region seem to be suffering the same fate.
Tony Dismukes
Even people who weren’t truly poor could have been stuck. I’ve always been able to make ends meet, but I’ve many times been broke, with an almost empty gas tank, on the day before payday. What happens to someone in that situation when the hurricane hits on payday, and the company they work for doesn’t exist any more to deliver the paycheck?
I’m fortunate enough to have a support network, and family who could help me out in such an emergency. Some folks with my finances don’t have family. Some people with my finances do have a network of friends and family – all of whom are much worse off then they are.
I’ve been really having some of that “there but for the grace of God go I” feeling the last couple of days.
Clever
FEMA suspends boat rescue operations in New Orleans because of dangers to rescuers, officials say.
As per CNN Frontpage.
JBD
As Clever notes, this is just going from bad to worse. And where on earth did Bush get the “no one anticipated that the levees would break” line? Practically every forecaster was talking about well before landfall. Ridiculous.
aaron
New Orleans…67% of population is black. 27.9% of population is below poverty level. Greyhound bus services stopped last SATURDAY…and it wasn’t free when it was in operation. This happened at the end of the month…when most poor people are evn poorer.
There was a terrible lack of planning for this. It’s not about BLAME..it’s about RESPOSIBILITY. Which is the ABILITY TO RESPOND. There is a difference. And our leaders are responsible for the ability to respond. People say “Well even the best laid plans…” The same excuse for screw-ups in Iraq. Here’s a question for authorities…”What do we do if there is no communication with the residents of the city? And what do we do if there is no authorities to keep the peace?” Simple questions with answers that should have been laid out long ago.
jobiuspublius
Did they salvage the busses for later use? Dear Leader has alot of friends.
capelza
Funny thing, jobiuspublius. I just saw an aerial view of N.O. and one of the shots was the acres of submerged yellow buses (school buses I assume). Now useless, and yet they couldn’t use them to get people out?
Now I’m not assigning blame, but that one picture just seemed so sad…
Andrei
Wow. A full on bleeding heart liberal post, Cole. I guess when you say it, it’s ok. But when one of us “libruls” says it, we’re off the planet moonbats.
I happen to think you are correct. It’s the hardest thing to reconcile in attempting to be a socially liberal but fiscally orietened libertarian mindset. At some point, you have to find a way to sustain everyone because if you don’t, when disaster strikes or the well goes dry, those the bottom will take out everything in their way not because they are bad people, but because the human nature survival instinct kicks in. Often times, they’ll take out too much in that situation.
There were a couple of good reports on NPR about this very subject two days ago. Try looking in the archives of All Things Considered and Marketplace.
KC
Good post John.
guyermo
President Bush has proven he didn’t even bother to receive updates on Katrina, and his incompetency came out on Good Morning America this morning with this quote:
“I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. They did appreciate a serious storm but these levees got breached and as a result much of New Orleans is flooded and now we’re having to deal with it and will,” he said.
Which can be placed against this report I found from Drudge:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html
Anderson
Atrios links to Michael Chertoff, whom I’m reluctantly concluding is a complete asshole, repeating this “chose to stay” meme.
Of course, Chertoff as head of Homeland Security is the ONE CABINET OFFICIAL MOST RESPONSIBLE FOR SEEING TO IT THAT POOR PEOPLE WERE EVACUATED.
They’re not stupid, they’re evil. This disaster has confirmed it.
jobiuspublius
Rep. Heather Thompson, IIRC, is on the Tavis Smiley Show. They’re repeating the same old crap about Iraq.
A woman called into the Al Franken Show. A relative of hers is a police officer, high rank, forgot which. He and his police are trying to hand out water and rescue people. But, they’re out numbered and prisoners have escaped, looted firearms, raped nurses.
Chairs on the Titanic.
skip
Whatever the intent of the WH, Bush’s lame speech, and his having lunch with Alan Greenspan (!), evidences a Dumbo-sized tin ear.
I am still waiting for an explanation for the lack of post-war, OOPS, I mean post-hurricane, planning. Do we see a pattern here?
Nordquist said he wanted Bush to shrink the government till he could drown it in a bathtub. Bush seems to have opted for drowning New Orleans instread.
Skip
pmm
I don’t know what the President was talking about this morning, either. It’s a pretty crazy thing to say and only confirms my growing fear that they are not getting out ahead of the crisis anytime soon.
Tim F
Two excellent blog posts make you wish we still had Clinton in office. FEMA was an agency once.
jobiuspublius
Ah, but, Andrei you underestimate the extreme delusional individuality that fuels Crackers and they love a good blood bath, especially if they can get it done. Caged quail gets old fast. Looters will be dealt with ruthlessly. That’s what we are to these people, cost, looters.
jg
When will some hippie tree hugger start carrying on about the gun shops being looted? If there were no gun shops they couldn’t be looted, right? I see a 2nd amendment fight in our future because of this.
Accountability is a dirty word
WTF is Bush having lunch with Greenspan about the economic effects of the storm when the situation hasn’t even been stabilized yet!
jg
Because the most important thing is preserving the tax cuts.
John Cole
Listen to you fucking people.
No event, no catastrophe- NOTHING, is simply out of bounds for you to use as political fodder.
Mo
I was watching one of the broadcasts where someone was outraged by the fact that people were looting the empty houses of those who evacuated.
My thought was, if a bunch of rich people had packed up their cars and headed north, leaving me and mine to die in our attics, I don’t know how respectful of their stuff I would be.
It is sad when the people in power, through their incompetence, feed the conspiracy theorists.
ape
jc – someone on the previous thread said:
“this is more than partisan bickering. this is the left’s worst fear. we’ve always been terrified of what Bush is doing to this country”
quite right. read Bushwhacked by Molly Iwins or whatever her name is.
she saw it first: trying to give soe account of the effects on people of Bush’s determination that NOTHING was out of bounds for him to screw with for his industry buddies: every form of environmental and consumer protection was chucked out the window.
it’s all in the al franken book too – toxic rivers, chopped of mountain tops, shit lagoons…
remember Bush was called the toxic texan. you can say that’s all bullshit, but you can’t call it opportunism.
Tim F
You can hardly blame Bush for that. Losing the Gulf oil facilities will have a massive impact on the US economy and the least they can do is try to figure out what it will be. I’d prefer that they did this effort beforehand, but that’s the sort of thing that FEMA would do. And we don’t have FEMA anymore.
So yes, I’m a bit sore that they didn’t do their stupid econ homework in advance, but I’d be a lot more mad if they weren’t at least trying to catch up.
Gold Star for Robot Boy
John, I’ll say this as a raging moderate: It cuts both ways.
jg
Condi Rice is out buying shoes and seeing broadway plays during this tragedy but I guess we aren’t allowed to talk about that. I don’t ccare if the Sec State doesn’t have an active role to play. People are stealing essentials because they’re starving, she’s buying $1000 shoes.
Tim F
After 9/11 the bar for politicizing tragedy got set way, way too high for us lowly blog commenters to reach. They politicized every goddamned decision they made. Whenever they need any stupid policy justified they drag out the dead bodies of the 9/11 victims to justify it. No, the Bush administration got on their knees and begged for this treatment.
Don
No doubt there’s a lot of BS stumping but writing it off as ‘fodder’ is unfair. The above Tim F linked blogposts have clear timelines and facts pusing their beliefs that the administration had made missteps. I admit I am personally not hard to convince that the administration has cocked something up in a half-assed manner, but I feel like I have some basis for that expectation.
Never the less, political change is accomplished in this country by convincing enough other people that you are correct, and that’s done through argument. Calling it fodder doesn’t change that.
jg
Bush put political appointees with no emergency management experience in charge of FEMA? This after Clinton had cleared out the previous administration useless political appointees? And we can’t lay any blame for the poor response on Bush?
BinkyBoy
Blaming Bush/Administration/Government may be a coping mechanism, John. Liberals have no visable leadership right now. On the flip side, Republicans should be coalescing (sp) behind their Dear Leader and his efforts to assist the Gulf States.
At least, thats how I see it. Its all about coping, some people do it differently.
Now saying that shooting looters should take priority over saving drowning people, thats just psychotic.
Jussi Hämäläinen
This story is quite familiar from earlier natural disasters.Quite often it is the poorest folk who are most reluctant to leave in the face of an oncoming natural disaster,be it a hurricane or a volcanic eruption.
Why?Are they stupid?
Economically rational is more like it.The poor are more likely than others to have all of their assets in non-liquid,non-movable property,like houses or plots of land (when they are farmers).
The poor are less likely to possess fat bank balances,insurance,rainy-day funds.
Let me put it this way:imagine you are an elderly,impoverished New Orleaner waiting for Hurricane Katrina to hit.True, the Mayor just called for everyone to get out now.If you stay,you might get killed.True,but if you leave,the neighborhood thugs will ransack your house,your only property – while the police will be busy protecting the `good neighborhoods`.
You don’t have insurance.You don’t have liquid assets.You can’t afford to live in a hotel.Your prospects of building a new career on the spot are limited,to say the least.
In other words,you balance the possibility of losing your life against the certainty of losing everything else – a choice the middle and upper classes rarely encounter.
And you decide to take your chances – and “ride it out”.
POSTSCRIPT:Any decent emergency plan for New Orleans would have included a guaranteed busing out for EVERY citizen – with guaranteed temporary shelter for as long as necessary.And,the city and the state would have paid a guaranteed compensation for every citizen who lost property due to looting or theft while they were out.
Cullen
Don’t blame us for “political fodder.” That’s all that Bush is about and the only thing that “awful little man” understands (using ppgaz’s great description). And if you can’t bring Bush to account for his actions during moments like this when they are revealed so starkly, then the terrible tragedy of New Orleans becomes even more so.
Krista
True, but let’s think of those rich people for a second, who might not even be all that rich. A lot of them are probably regular, middle-class folks. You’ve been told that there’s a mandatory evacuation of the city because of a huge hurricane that’s coming. I don’t know about you, but I have to confess that during that time, I’d be making sure that my family and loved ones got safely out of there. Maybe it’s selfish and horrible, but I just don’t think that a lot of people at this time were worried about anybody other than the people that they knew directly.
Anderson
People are dying like flies for want of water and rations that ANY DECENT GOVERNMENT would have had stockpiled regionally after 9/11, together with coordinated airdrop plans.
And somebody wants to say we shouldn’t “be political” by criticizing the President?
Fuck. That.
It’s the political tax cuts that helped this happen. It’s the political Iraq War that helped this happen. It’s the political indifference to homeland security & disaster management that helped this happen.
How DARE anyone watch those people dying in N.O. and then say “but of course, you’re not allowed to blame the government.”
Tim F
If you’re not pissed off enough yet there’s Atrios. Wow. I’m afraid to even see how far gone Aravosis and friends are.
And of course, if you haven’t given to the Red Cross yet then there’s something seriously wrong with you.
guyermo
John, Bush cut funding to levie projects by 40% and then had the audacity to say that noone expected this to happen!
We are all agreeing that this is the worst tragedy in American history in the past 100 years. But if it were not for the budget decisions of PResident Bush and the Republican Controlled Congress, that money would have still been there and these levies would have seen improvements that might have withstood this hurricane or at least mitigated the damage.
The reason we on the left are pushing it now is because by the time the immediate humanitarian crisis is over, the attitude will be “well, it doesn’t matter about the funding being cut because the damage has already happened.”
There is blame to be placed, and this time there’s no teflon.
Anderson
And of course, if you haven’t given to the Red Cross yet then there’s something seriously wrong with you.
My firm matched Red Cross donations for the tsunami. We’re in Jackson MS & surely they’ll do the same for this, but no word yet; so I’m waiting.
Darrell
Bridges and infrastructure have been almost completely destroyed. Have you seen all the bridges knocked out? Aid, which usually can be trucked into disaster areas to a large extent, now needs to come by air and once it lands, how to distribute it? Via boats? I’m all for holding local and fed govt officials feet to the fire, but given the destruction of infrastructure in a city of canals and waterways linked by bridges, I’m not so willing to say that they’re not doing the best that could be expected under these circumstances. There needs to be a full airing of how this was handled at a later date, but there is a helluva lot of rush to judgement and ignorant second guessing given the destruction and geography of that area
Accountability is a dirty word
Darrell, everyone in the know had models depicting what might happen due to a major hurricane. Contingencies should have been made. This is not like a curve ball out of the blue. Unlike a tsunami where there is very little time to prepare, in this case the NHC track implicated NO 2-3 days ahead of time.
Tim F
Good god, you’re right next door. Do you have refugees in Jackson?
My post wasn’t meant to be an invective against anybody in particular so I hope it wasn’t taken that way. I just feel that if we’re going to sit here and opine about the tragedy then we’d better have all ponied up.
John Cole
Quit being so reasonable, Darrell. This is all Bush’s fault. He was on vacation! And Condi bought shoes! Everyone knows FEMA is supposed to have everything up and running months before hurricanes even hit!
It’s a fucking tragedy. Something that is painful to watch, and awful for those involved, but while people give lip service to how devastating this hurricane was, that seems to be forgotten when we make the demands that everything be fixed. This is going to take a shitload of time to sort out- they haven’t even stopped the flooding yet, but the rush to fault the the various government entities and the rescuers for failing to do a good enough job is, right now, disgusting.
jg
Maybe Bush is so detached because he doesn’t think this is a problem of the federal gov’t. This is a state issue and the republicans are the party of states’ rights and small to no federal gov’t. Maybe his first thoughts were that the Louisianna and Mississippi governors have got themselves a crisis. Just a thought. I could be wrong but I know plenty of conservatives who don’t think their tax money should go to disaster cleanups in other states.
John Cole
What part of city underwater and obstructed roadways and ruined ports are you not comprehending?
They are doing the best they can. Basing an analysis of what what wrong with the rescue, relief and cleanup while the disaster is still occurring is a touch premature.
Krista
I just can’t understand why they’re not letting the Canadian team in. They let the Red Cross in, but they’re not letting in DART from Vancouver, which is a ridiculously well-trained disaster response team who helped out during 9/11 and during the tsunami. They’re sitting there waiting to get moving, get this rescue effort well-coordinated, and get people the hell out of there, and the U.S. government has basically said, “not right now, thanks. We’ll get back to you if we need you.”
Whereas I’m sure the people still in N.O. would have an ever-so-slightly different response to this offer.
snaporaz
John Cole reminds me of Rummy about now. “You give aid to the disaster victims with the national guard you got…”
The disaster is still occuring because there is no one there to stop it. John Cole point me to one single recent news article or video report that shows Fed government workers/troops giving aid and relief inside NO.
Cullen
“but the rush to fault the the various government entities and the rescuers…”
What “various government entities” are you talking about? Who’s faulting the “rescuers?” We’re talking about one guy, BUSH, and accountability for HIS actions, okay? He’s the one in charge. He’s the one who has been whittling away at the safeguards American citizens used to enjoy. And he’s the one who, given his penchant for rewarding bad behavior, should give himself the next Freedom medal, or whatever the hell they call it.
Accountability is a dirty word
“What part of city underwater and obstructed roadways and ruined ports are you not comprehending?”
Are you saying that planning for a post Category 3-4 hurricane wouldn’t have anticipated roads being underwater or obstructed? I know government bureacracy is inept but it can’t be this bad.
jg
The part where this was a completely unexpected occurance and so it IS unreasonable to think there could be any semblance of a plan for dealing with it.
KC
While I do think the administration should have been more on top of this when they saw it coming, and to me there is no excuse why that team of Canadians can’t come in and help, John’s right that this is a crisis still unfolding and that things will get sorted out later in terms of crisis response responsibility. Right now the thing is to make sure people get the help they need down there, that the Red Cross etc. has the tools it needs to do its job.
Tim F
It seems perfectly fair to blame the administration for strangling FEMA. You could argue that FEMA is doing its best to handle the situation, fine, but what is FEMA’s best? Is it the same best as it would have been in 2000? No. The agency practically doesn’t exist anymore and nothing has been created to replace its mission.
Screw these ridiculous standards that Bush defenders keep setting. Nobody thinks that Bush giving half a shit about disaster preparedness would have prevented Katrina entirely. We’re saying that it would have helped.
Bush’s incredible neglect of disaster preparedness gives people a gold-plated mile-wide outlet for the anger and grief that surrounds this sort of tragedy. I for one won’t say that he doesn’t deserve it.
Anderson
Do you have refugees in Jackson?
Oh yeah, hotels, shelters, the trade mart & coliseum I think … my wife is rounding up clothes, etc. for us to take down there.
John, I think you’re in denial. The point is not “it’s too hard to get supplies in there.” The point is that it was perfectly foreseeable that it would be hard to get supplies in there, and that as a nation, we are supposed to plan for that eventuality.
I mean, is it really too unreasonable to expect FEMA and Homeland Security to have some plans drawn up, so that Chertoff can ask his FEMA guy “what do we do?” and FEMA says “execute Plan B-6,” and they do it, and it at least halfway works? Especially when, in 2001, FEMA had identified an N.O. flood as one of the 3 biggest potential disasters it had to address?
Is that really too goddam much to ask from the Cabinet-level department assigned with protecting American citizens from disasters and attacks?
jg
snaporaz
In a month Cole will apologize, say that he wanted to believe that the government was doing everything they could, wanted to believe that something like this could not have been imagined, etc etc.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Why does FEMA exist in the first place? If a private insurer won’t take the risk of insuring your high-risk home, then why should anonymous taxpayers assume that risk?
Happens all the time in CA. People build on mountainsides. Can’t get private insurance. House falls down, taxpayers foot the bill. Typical leftwing shell game, blame it all on someone else/have someone else assume responsibility.
Again, I ask, so when will George Soros and TH Kerry start writing checks?
jg
http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2005/09/index.html#007555
For some reason I can’t get the link to work. My above quote is from Yglesias at Tapped.
BinkyBoy
Hey Stupidity, how do you know they havn’t?
Grow up you pathetic twit. FEMA was organized to help people when there is something like a huge flood that wipes out everything. You know, like right now.
It worked in the past, so of course your party decided to dismantle it.
Just Some Guy
They could probably get ahold of the State Department and ask the Secretary of State to expedite their entry, but she just found a fabulous bag at the Prada store on 5th Ave., so they’ll have to wait.
Another Jeff
“Grow up you twit.”
Ah yes, little Binky, the guy who yesterday posted nothing other than “clap harder, clap harder” as people were dying is now telling others to grow up.
The sad part is, he’s probably too stupid to see the irony, or too shameless to care.
BinkyBoy
Gee Jeff, I may have been refering to the fact that most people would never blame Dear Leader for failing to fund FEMA or other catastrophic support agencies and organizations, coupling that with an earlier blog entry here where John asked what the Tinkerbell Strategy was.
Humor, must be way too fucking hard for you to figure out.
KC
Tim F, I think this sentence says a lot:
I think that’s what’s coming out now. People saw the president go to Arizona and California after a storm had ravaged the Gulf Coast. He cut his unprecedented five week vacation two days short, but for a lot of folks, this sacrifice wasn’t enough. On top of seeing the crisis unfolding, people are now seeing the cuts to FEMA, saw the president’s less than compelling speech on the disaster, and are just venting with frustration. It’s the kind of thing that’s just going to happen during a disaster, especially one wherein there is a perceived leadership vacuum.
I want to add that this venting isn’t just happening on the left. I spoke with my father yesterday on the phone. If you’ve never heard a recording of Michael Savage’s radio show, give my dad a call. At any rate, after five minutes on the phone with him, it was obvious that Savage had also had some pretty unkind words for Bush respecting his disaster response. My dad kept saying “where the hell has Bush been? What the hell’s he doing out here in California?” He said Savage was saying Bush needed to tell all his oil cronies to start coughing up some cash and get some guys in there to deal with the looters.
I’m suggesting we take Savage’s (or my father’s) advice, I’m just pointing out the current line of venting isn’t the sole domain of the left. It’s happening on the right too.
pmm
Snaporaz wrote:
If he does that, at least he’ll be basing it on actual information and not just projecting his preferred biases on events as they unfold.
Krista
Can you prevent a natural distaster? Hell, no.
Can you prepare for it the best that you can? Hell, yes.
Can that preparedness make the difference in the number of lives lost? Yeppers.
Despite Bush’s alleged hotline to God, no, he obviously had no way of preventing the disaster. That’s a given.
But, if his economic policies crippled FEMA, then yes, he does bear some responsibility for the fact that New Orleans was not as prepared as it could have been for this disaster, and he therefore also bears responsibility for the fact that the response has been very poorly organized. Would people still have died? Of course. Would as many people have died? We don’t know…that’s the question that haunts us.
But is it haunting him???
Another Jeff
Well, binker, ignoring for a second that humor is supposed to either clever or funny or at least a little ironic, and you failed on all counts, I’m glad you felt the need to try and inject your humor into posts about the hurricane on a day when there was mass suffering and death on the streets of New Orleans.
It’s just another example of why guys like you get so defensive when you’re accused of trying to politicize things. You don’t give a flying fuck about the victims and anyone with a brain sees your crocodile tears for what they are.
BinkyBoy
I can’t help it if you’re pathetic and can’t see the humor in it. Your side is clapping heartily for a Bush speech that was less than pathetic, defending his cuts to FEMA, trying to get everyone to look away from the obvious black hole that is the power structure in Washington. But you can clap, can’t you? Just like a bunch of trained seals, sitting on your little pedestals, clapping and blowing your horns waiting for a little piece of fish (tax cut) to come your way so you can clap even harder in the future.
Anderson
Cold, sir, magnificently cold.
Another Jeff
I know, binker, people are dying but that’s really funny. Clap, clap. It just makes any of your other posts with all your fake concern look so lame.
Of course, being as that you’re up in Idaho because you’re scared to live around non-whites, i’m sure you’re not all that concerned about the dying, since so many of them are black and you’ve already proven yourself to be the bigot that you are.
jobiuspublius
Haley Barbours, “Looters will be dealt with ruthlessly”, seems more and more ominous by the second. We may have our own miniature holocost by the time this plays out. I hope I havn’t minimized the original holocost. It is not my intention.
BinkyBoy
Yeah, thats why I’m a lone Blue in a Red State, because secretly I’m a racist and a bigot.
Thank you for helping me see the light. Are you going to the circle clap tonight?
Scared of living around non-whites… hahahaha, I live in a town made up of over 80% migrant workers. I’m so glad they scare me so.
But keep up those good personal attacks, it must really soothe your twisted little ego.
Krista
And just think…countries that have constant civil war or unrest have been living in circumstances just like this for years on end. I’m not making light of New Orleans at all, but I think that this situation has really opened our eyes to how damn lucky we are to live in a really peaceful area. This looting and anarchy is shocking and horrible to us, and rightly so. But in many other places, it’s just the status quo.
jobiuspublius
Krista, I’m not looking to lower my standards.
Another Jeff
A little defensive there, aren’t ya Binker? Like i said, you were the one trying (but failing) to be funny as people were suffering and dying.
Given your past comments, track record, and geographic location, I can only think that it’s due to the fact that you don’t care because it’s mostly black people dying.
BinkyBoy
Why do you believe everyone in Idaho is a racist? A little short sighted and narrow minded of you, isn’t it?
Oh well, what can I expect of a pathetic Republican clapper like yourself?
Adam
Nice to know Congress might convene tomorrow. How long did it take them to convene when the Schiavo Disaster happened? Oh, that’s right, like, ten minutes and on a Sunday. Fuckers.
Darrell
You have no clue whether or not there was “incredible neglect” on the part of anyone, but you blather as if you have a clue. New Orleans, densely populated with most of the city below sea level, WAS A CATASTROPHE WAITING TO HAPPEN. All the planning in the world couldn’t have done a damn thing to prevent the city from being underwater after a hurricane like Katrina.. And neither Bush nor FEMA designed those bridges and roads that were wiped out or are underwater. It looks to me like the rescue workers are doing the best they can under VERY difficult circumstances.. We should have a full accounting of what was done right and what was done wrong to help future disaster relief efforts. But for now, the left is demonstrating what lowlifes they truly are.. laying the blame all at Bush’s feet – “Bush’s incredible neglect”. What’s incredible is the hatred and the stupidity of people posting that kind of crap
Tim F
Darrell, I don’t really expect you to listed to a damned thing anybody says. We’re all leftists after all and The Left is always wrong.
Anderson
Shorter Darrell:
It was a catastrophe waiting to happen, and thus no one could be prepared for it.
DougJ
This is by far the most assinine and offensive thing I’ve ever heard Carville say, and I’ve heard a lot from him. What a jerk! “Party of the poor” my ass.
Accountability is a dirty word
“It looks to me like the rescue workers are doing the best they can under VERY difficult circumstances.”
Are you watching FEMA TV? Because what I’m seeing on the tube is people in need of food and water and it’s been over 72 hours since the storm passed.
Nate
You know, the only reason BushCo. has any power today is because they exploited 9/11 so absolutely ruthlessly. Bush was just doing so days ago (as the hurricane was hitting NO) and the Pentagon is *still* planning their merry march, linking 9/11 to the Iraq war. We can’t rescue people fast enough from NO nor provide our troopps with body armor, but we *can* stage a Nuremburg rally!
What fucking hypocrisy!
Tim F
Reconsidering my vituperation, I’m honestly wondering whether Darrell doubts that FEMA was gutted, or whether he doubts that a properly-functioning FEMA would do any good. There’s a big difference.
snaporaz
600 disagree with John Cole
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/01.html#a4734
Darrell
The left hates Bush, aka “Dear leader”, so very much, there is no doubt that if they could, they would fill a dumptruck with drowned New Orleans corpses and drop them in the driveway of his ranch. “Look what you’ve done Chimpy, it’s all your fault!!”
Joe Albanese
John “the apologist” Cole says:
Is anybody faulting the rescuers? Jesus they always use the same argument, “the left is attacking the job the soldiers are doing” NOPE… NOPE…. NOPE…. This is not a failure of the individual resuers who are doing a very dangerous job probably while they have just lost their house as well but a failure of LEADERSHIP… OF POLICY…. OF PLANNING… OF PREPAREDNESS……
Am I asking TOO muich of my “government entities” that they could get SOME food and water to disaster vicitims FIVE DAYS after a hurricane?
I think Jack Cafferty said it best on CNN:
Darrell
The bridges are destroyed, the city is underwater, and the water is not draining out because the city is BELOW SEA LEVEL.. “Why hasn’t FEMA fed and clothed everyone by now!!”. Incredible
Andrew J. Lazarus
All the planning in the world couldn’t have done a damn thing to prevent the city from being underwater after a hurricane like Katrina..
Visited Holland, Darrell? Oh, wait, it’s in Europe. The consensus seems to be emerging that planning for the underwater city was totally inadequate.
Say, anyone else remember Presidential candidate Al Gore getting savaged for misremembering which disaster he visited with the Clinton Administration’s FEMA wizard? So instead we have a president who even now is figuring out how to invade Venezuela in revenge (and for his poll numbers). Rainforests of Mass Destruction or some such.
mac Buckets
I’m pretty sure it was because the best the Democrats could offer was John Kerry.
Silly point, made more silly by the Nazi ref (Godwin rules). Besides, I can guarantee you that no National Guard will be pulled from NO to participate in the 9/11 walk.
snaporaz
Darrel blows goats.
I have proof.
ppGaz
No, it isn’t. There are a lot of questions to be answered as we go forward.
BumperStickerist
30 days before Katrina, there was Hurricane Pam
There had to have been several deja vu moments at the Louisiana State Emergency Operations Center last week.
Nate
And you’d be wrong. Nice dodge, though.
Who’s silly, apologist? Great, they won’t use the National Guard. Well, that makes me feel better! That the Penatgon is spending money on a vioctory rally when we have ongoing disasters in NO and in Iraq should shame all of you. Unfortunately, you have none.
DougJ
I’m a little confused, John. We CAN criticize Barbour and Blanco, but we can’t criticize the FEMA response or the the lack of money spent on levees and wetlands? Is that it? It’s hard to keep all your rules straight here. Maybe you should just do a post where you tell us who we can criticize and who we can’t. That would be simpler.
John Cole
I guess myDOugJ fake Republican has finally decided to quit playing.
You can criticize whatever you want, petunia. Just have it be a valid criticism that makes sense.
Rocky Smith
Those who have looted for food and water should be helped out. Those who loot stereos, TVs, jewelry stores and the like should be shot on sight. Where would you take all these looted items anyway? Aren’t most homes flooded out?
Interesting how this thread has devolved from talking about the disaster to bashing the President and his administration. I guess it’s therapy for all you Bush haters. Note that Katrina was a category one when it crossed Florida and grew over night to a category five. Bush must have employed some secret weapon to build it up quickly over a few hours. Damn him! It sure isn’t the fault of anyone who built a large city below sea level.
DougJ
And another thing, John: why the pot-shots at Barbour for saying he’d be tough with looters? You wanted him to make them get warrants before they went into places where people might be looting.
And you call ME a fake Republican. Kettle, meet pot.
jg
No one said Bush should have stopped the hurricane. Are you that stupid? You think you’re arguing with people who think Bush controls hurricanes? If you can’t follow the logic that puts blame on Bush don’t just make shit up so you can feel active in the debate.
DougJ
Some DID blame it on global warming, though, so John does have a point there. The “blaming global warming” argument is stupid and he’s right to condemn it.
I take exception, though, with anyone who says we couldn’t have done more with levees and the wetlands.
KC
This is absolutely disgusting. It’s not just the president, but the governor, the city, etc. What the hell is going on? Why is the president giving damned interviews to Good Morning America right now? This isn’t a PR game. Also, does anyone have any idea what the governor is doing? Hell, is there anything she can do? Christ.
Rocky Smith
What I think is that it is a HUGE mess down there that many of you seem to think should have been cleaned up by now and all returned to normal while they haven’t even gotten the flood waters out. You are all demanding miracles, IMHO. Has the planning and execution been perfect? Surely not. Do I give Bush and the rest of the government a complete pass? No. I was attempting to llustrate that the storm gained strength over night and that many of you seemed to think Bush should have known that and planned in a few hours for it. I guess I shouldn’t expect reasonable expectations from libs.
ppGaz
Congrats to John, this thread just got major notice on CNN’s “look at the blogs”.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
I am grown up, that’s why I don’t need the govt. to hold my hand for me from cradle to grave. It worked in the past. So what? Leeches and bloodletting worked in the past, too.
The private sector handling charity and such would work even better. But of course, I don’t expect a childish and braindead Lefty like yourself to understand such concepts. See, in the grown up world, we depend on our friends, family etc. to help out, not always looking to the ANONYMOUS U.S. TAXPAYER to help bail us out every time some tragedy happens.
ppGaz
Agreed. This is not exactly government’s finest hour.
It’s really hard to be me and to be pointing out that if government would start paying attention to what citizens need, and stop paying attention to things that don’t matter (I can’t list them without snark) ….. we’d be better off.
Honestly, though, if this is what we can expect at the next terrorist attack or big earthquake or hurricane …. we need to rethink what the hell we have government for.
I keep thinking this is going to get better, and then I turn on the tv, and it’s worse. I see suits talking to cameras, and then I see people who are largely screwed. Something is very wrong with this picture.
sean
I saw that too, ppGaz. congratulations, John! and the way the girl phrased it made it sound like you were big doings:
“….and this is from Balloon Juice. That’s John Cole’s blog.”
good for you.
Joe Albanese
Rocky says:
Really? Can you show me posts where anyone suggested things should be “returned to normal”. I think I asked why the goverment can’t seem to get food and water to the people that congregated around the Convention Center. After nearly five days? Reporters are there. Newtrucks are there. But no officials with food or water. Pretty disgraceful I’d say. Even an apologist like John has to be discouraged.
Joe Albanese
you sure that wasn’t big DROPPINGS?
adri
i have been flat broke for the majority of my life as has my family. the only reason that i have this laptop is because i went out and “got” it. so i can understand how these people never left. i find it funny that they are actually planning on prosecuting people for taking bare necessities such as water, food, and diapers. i am just happy that i was born in seattle and not nola. give me an earthquake anyday.
Joe Albanese
Anybody see the President’s briefing today? Spent about five minutes on the situation in New Orleans and then the rest of the briefing on gasoline. Strange priorities.
jg
Nope. Again just making up arguments to rail against.
jg
Good point since its location makes it accessible from west NO and its on relatively high ground. They mayor said he’s going to walk people out of there if help doesn’t come.
Joe Albanese
Why the fuck isn’t helping “coming” at this stage of the game. Five days into the hurricane that was predicited to hit NO for a week before that. Was there ANY pre-planning?
Joe Albanese
maybe this had something to do with the lack of planning:
.
jg
Whats funny is wingnuts will reads Joes post and think it says Bush should have stopped a hurricane.
KC
The Times-Picayne’s blog is really good for information. This story of events on the ground puts the chaos in frightening perspective. I really hope they can get more guard and police down there.
ppGaz
I could not help thinking that it was just bizarre. He even caught himself using that oil-industry “lingo” at one point, as if he were talking to his oil buddies down in Houston.
Well, I guess he was, now that I think of it.
Joe Albanese
Policy decisions have CONSEQUENCES. Throughout these posts we have all gotten to see what Bush’s polices were regarding: FEMA, disaster preparedness, refortifying the levees, and Homeland Security. Unfortunatly we are also seeing the consequences of those policies.
CONSEQUENCES should have ACCOUNTABILITY.
Joe Albanese
and if bush uses the term FOLKS one more time I’m going to pull the hair out of my head
Tim F
Louisiana has three thousand guardsmen that they could really use right now.
…two thousand nine hundred ninety-eight…
Andrew J. Lazarus
Josh Marshall helps explain why no disaster relief is arriving (quite a separate question from Bush stopping the hurricane):
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
You guys are too much. Okay, so Bush isn’t doing anything about the high price of gas (not that he can do anything), but it’s bad for him to talk about gas/oil/energy?
Bush is the Pres. of the Whole United States, not just NOLA.
Goddamn, some of you guys are such first rate PUSSIES. Listen to yourselves. Sob, sob, the Pres. isn’t feeling our pain. Why doesn’t he hold my hand tighter? I’m so scared. Where’s the govt. to tuck me in and read me a bedtime story?
You’re like attention starved first graders.
Gosh, if only John Kerry was president. Why, he’d have Zarqawi himself squeeging up NOLA. Why, NOLA would have been smacked by rainbows full of love and puppies instead of Katrina.
How about a challenge, nancy boys, eh? Next time you hear some “vital” govt. agency is underfunded, why not open up your hearts and checkbooks and send some of your money in.
Again, I ask: When will George Soros and TH Kerry pony up some cash, you know, for the children?
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Oh, and how do I know they haven’t ponied up some cash: do you honestly believe the DNC would keep quiet about it?
John Cole
You know what Joe, just go fuck yourself. You clearly have no respect for me. You clearly have never been capable of a rational thought in your life. You clearly just hate Bush, republicans, and anyone who disagrees with your jaundiced view of the world.
Just go away. Go live in the hills by yourself with all the people who think like you.
But most of all, just go fuck yourself. I am tired of even pretending to care what you think, and I am certainly done noticing your existence. Go get a blog. You can call it
Ihatechimpymcbushhitler.blogspot.com
And you can rant and rave all you want, and none of us will have to deal with your bullshit. But most of all, I won’t have to deal with your insults and your bullshit.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
One more question: again, we see how well govt. really works, or rather doesn’t work, so who’s up for some good ole socialized medicine? Huh? Any takers?
jg
i’m sobbing? I’m a pussy? It must be nice to live in a fantasy world where you are sooo right that the other guy doesn’t even have to be listened to. Instead you can just make up their position for them. Easier to put it down when you invent it right?
Joe Albanese
John… all I do on here in post information. Links. Information. Go back over my posts and see how many of them are linked to substantive articles on the subject at hand. I back up what I say with information and thats more than I can say for you. Don’t question our government john that is fine with me. “They are doing the best job they can.” Bull shit. Stick your head in the sand if you want to but I am going to continue to offer my opinion.
yeah, right. And you are so open minded right. And yes, I do hate Bush at this moment. Not because he is Bush but because he is an incompetent, self centered, over his head, uncruioius, uncaring moron that is HURTING our nation on a daily basis. My opinion.
jg
I’ll admit I don’t like George Bush, used to but don’t now, and that it definately causes me to be skeptical of anything he says. Doesn’t mean the stuff I say doesn’t have some merit. Conversely I think some people have got so much Bush love they can’t see his actions clearly. Too worried about being seen as not supporting the president to look at him critically.
Nate
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!, who clearly has masculity issues, says:
Government doesn’t work very well, macho man, when it’s deprived of funds and personnel. Why don’t you take some time out and think about that?
KC
Congress is meeting and I think that’ll put the president back into focus. Indeed, I have no doubt he’s already probably exchanged words with a few Senators and Congressmen who have told him to snap out of it. He’s also got his father and Clinton now to help him out and organize relief efforts. It’s late, yes, but hopefully things will be organized and sorted out soon.
jobiuspublius
So, why aren’t you in Iraq? You know it’s a govenment operation, the Iraq War, right?
Joe Albanese
You clearly just hate Bush, republicans, and anyone who disagrees with your jaundiced view of the world.
on this very blog I’ve attacked:
the DEMOCRATIC Governor of LA
the DEMOCRATIC mayor of NO
the REPUBLICAN president of the USA
the REPUBLICAN Governor of Mississippi
and I’ve praised profusely:
the REPUBLICAN mayor of NY (previous)
the REPUBLICAN Governor of NY (current)
Yeah.. but to John I’m just a partisan hack. Just filled with hate for Bush and Republicans. No… I’m filled with hate for incompetency and corruption whereever the chips may fall.
jobiuspublius
So, what’s stopping them?
Oh, not so independant after all. Why can’t we all get along and have a national fund for tradgedies?
And what happens to people who do not have family and friends that can help them? You know, the poor, the old, the sick, or orphaned for instance.
Just Some Guy
If the government doesn’t take care of natural disasters, who does? I’m very curious about this. In your perfect world, who would be passing out supplies and evacuating survivors? Would it be a for profit scenario? Who would provide security?
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
What, your checkbook is on the blink? Who’s stopping you from donating time and your obvious employment skills?
The govt. deprived of funds. Oh, please, dude, up the Prozac prescription. The US Fed Govt. is the largest employer in the nation, and in CA alone we spend about 6K of taxpayer money on every single K-12 student. Govt. has enough money.
WHAT GOVT. DOESN’T HAVE IS THE INCENTIVE TO BE EFFICIENT, and that’s because nitwits like yourself seem to blindly think throwing money at the Federal Dept. Of Fill in the Blank will solve all problems.
DougJ
Actually, Joe, I agree with some of what you’ve said here, but you are excessively insulting to John Cole, who does a great job with this blog. Why the stupid “big droppings” joke for example? It wasn’t even funny.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Huh? What? Somebody get this nitwit a reading primer. What does Iraq have to do with Socialized Medicine?
You seem to love govt. when it’s giving you a freebie (at someone else’s expense of course) but when it’s trying to stop the spread of terrorism and the Pres happens to have a R, not a D next to his name, well, then you just break out the protest placards.
jg
The gov’t has enough money. There it is. From the party of deficits don’t matter we also get the gov’t has enough money. That whole borrowing from China thing is all for their benefit anyway.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
How about having State and Local govts. provide most of the funding. Are you telling me the Local Pols of NOLA couldn’t raise any money to save the freakin’ levees? Of course the Feds should have some involvement, but it seems like everyone points their fingers at the feds and expects the Feds and the Feds alone to provide solutions.
The fed. govt’s #1 job duty is to protect this country from domestic and foreign invaders/criminals, etc. This should be accomplished at 100% peak efficiency before the feds start poking around into EVERYTHING.
Private businesses and non profits should be more involved. And yes, profit should factor into it because profit is what motivates people to do a good job. Sorry, but it’s true. Ever been to a DMV and was impressed? Yeah, me, neither.
I have no vision of the perfect world. But the more we rely on the Fed Govt. to solve all our problems and make us feel warm and fuzzy, we’re heading for disaster.
While the Feds debate Steroids in Baseball, NOLA goes underwater.
Still waiting for Soros and Madamoiselle Kerry…..
Anderson
Actually, Joe, I agree with some of what you’ve said here, but you are excessively insulting to John Cole, who does a great job with this blog.
Yeah, Joe, I’m frustrated with Cole’s stance on this issue, but you don’t need to call him an “apologist.” He’s certainly earned some cred for calling them as he sees them; he just doesn’t see this one correctly, sez me. Doesn’t make him an “apologist.” Save that for the Jonah Goldbergs of the world.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Huh? Go back to your school and demand a refund.
The govt. spent 100 BILLION in the past 30 years developing alternative fuels and we have what to show for it. Give 100 Billion to a private sector company and our cars would run on oxygen.
Of course deficits matter, but I must have missed the lone Dem politician who’s in favor of cutting anything other than the Military, you know, for the children.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Just Some Guy:
One more thought– why are so many US cities reeling from lack of Police and Firemen. Why isn’t this their number one priority? We would need FEMA as much as we currently do if state and local govts. would actually stick to their sworn duties instead of trading taxfunded handouts for votes.
jobiuspublius
Tony Zimbado, on NBC, reports from inside the N.O. convention center. He says there is no violence. He saw to babies die infront of him from dehydration. People were told to go to the convention center. Now they are standed.
jobiuspublius
*stranded, not standed
jg
Who do you think recieved the 100 billion? Our latest energy bill gives 8 billion to the oil companies. Why are we giving them taxpayer dollars to fund their devlopment of a product that will keep them in business when the oil runs out? Isn’t it their job to fund that themselves?
ppGaz
Preaching to the choir, mostly, Joe. Nobody despises Bush more than I. I swear, not even you. I wouldn’t let the man clean my bathroom.
But maybe today isn’t the best day to see everything in those terms. And John is doing a good job with the Katrina aftermath, it wouldn’t kill a person to point that out.
Just a suggestion, you could take it down a notch. Plenty of time for bashing over the Katrina situation, in the fullness of time. We don’t have to do it all in one day. and there is plenty out there to criticize over this thing, plenty to go around.
Thoughts?
Just Some Guy
In the case of a disaster of this magnitude, the Federal government is the only entity equipped to handle it. And even they aren’t sure what to do (it seems). I agree that more should be done at the state and local level for prevention. But response is well outside of the ability of any state agency.
I think protecting the country includes protecting one of the largest ports and a quarter of the oil refineries. There are alot of goods reasons for the nation to protect New Orleans.
Private businesses just won’t do anything long term. Businesses are driven by profit and things like building levees is a long term investment — something that cuts into short term profits. Check US Steel in the early 1900s for a good example.
I don’t think the Federal government is good for much, but it does have the ability to do some things that no one else can. Long term projects like building infrastructure is one of them.
Don’t even get me started on this Congress…
jobiuspublius
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!, what you don’t understand is that the private sector is full of the same shit that makes up the public sector. People are no more angelic in the private sector than they are in the public sector. Economics is not a fool proof mechnism. It does not make people anymore reliable than usual. It does not protect people from malfeasance. The problem is not government. The problem is people.
jg
Matt at Tapped again
jg
http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2005/09/index.html#007565
daddyx
As someone who’s sat out more than my fair share of hurricanes here in the south, I’ll tell you from first hand experience that most hurricanes aren’t that bad.
There’s a lot of wind and rain but that’s about it. I’ve been evacuated twice, and neither time were the results of the storm all that bad. All the while you’ll hear the people in the newsrooms crying “worst disaster to come!”.
A lot of people down here have taken to ignoring the media when it comes to hurricanes… You can only cry wolf so many times before people begin to ignore you.
And screw all of you idiots who are making any sort of political hay out of this storm.
Could things have been done differently?
Yes they could have.
It’s very easy many of you to be armchair generals, when you’ve never had to deal with the the pressure that comes with this kind of responsibility.
Even the smallest descision these people make will affect thousands of peoples lives.
jg
How can you say ‘screw’ us then state our point? The whole point is things could have and should have been done differently. this ain’t the first time these guys didn’t have a plan for dealing with something forseen by other people, people who obviously ‘hate america’ since they won’t just get behind the leader, they actually ask for answers.
Nate
I think we need a new wortd for “apologist”, because the wingnuts have broken it.
Were Gore president in 2000, he would have been impeached by a Republican Congress for negligence regarding 9/11, and if he survived that, impeached again for this disaster. The only reason we haven’t seen more outrage over both calamities is that the entire Democratic party is hiding under my bed.
Darrell
I read that there were some cuts to FEMA (not sure the details of what was cut and why), but I have read nothing to indicate that they were short money or manpower to deal with New Orleans. Which begs the second part of your question, no, I don’t think even a perfectly organized FEMA could have done much about New Orleans. NOLA is densely populated and BELOW sea level, making it a catastrophe waiting to happen. Being below sea level ensures a) catastrophic flooding will occur when a class 3 or 4 hurricane hits directly or nearby and b) that the water will not recede for a very long time. Had a hurricane like Katrina hit, say, Jacksonville, FL, most or all of the flood waters would have receded by now. And Katrina was not even a direct hit on NOLA, landing 40 or so miles to the east
The fact that the bridges were blown out and roads are underwater means disaster aid cannot be trucked in. The fact that most of the city is underwater, means it’s extremely difficult to distribute aid once it arrives in the city. Pointing at all the tragic deaths while jumping up and down screaming “Bush’s fault” doesn’t change these realities.
jobiuspublius
Castro seems to be pretty good with hurricanes. Maybe we could hire him in exchange for him stepping down from his self appointed gradiosity.
Frank
Darrel- Ican’t belive you havent already seen this but href=”http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001051313″>here
Over the next 10 years, the Army Corps of Engineers, tasked with carrying out SELA, spent $430 million on shoring up levees and building pumping stations, with $50 million in local aid. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside.HURRICANE COVERAGE
Editor of Biloxi Paper Surfaces With a Column
‘Times-Picayune’ Finds New Home, Reports Looting
For ‘St. Pete Times,’ Katrina Coverage is a Test of Preparedness
Baton Rouge Paper Rides Out the Storm
Biloxi Paper Perseveres
Hurricane Blog, Day 3
Hurricane Blog, Day 2
Hurricane Blog, Day 1
Yet after 2003, the flow of federal dollars toward SELA dropped to a trickle. The Corps never tried to hide the fact that the spending pressures of the war in Iraq, as well as homeland security — coming at the same time as federal tax cuts — was the reason for the strain. At least nine articles in the Times-Picayune from 2004 and 2005 specifically cite the cost of Iraq as a reason for the lack of hurricane- and flood-control dollars.
Newhouse News Service, in an article posted late Tuesday night at The Times-Picayune Web site, reported: “No one can say they didn’t see it coming. … Now in the wake of one of the worst storms ever, serious questions are being asked about the lack of preparation.”
In early 2004, as the cost of the conflict in Iraq soared, President Bush proposed spending less than 20 percent of what the Corps said was needed for Lake Pontchartrain, according to a Feb. 16, 2004, article, in New Orleans CityBusiness.
On June 8, 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, Louisiana; told the Times-Picayune: “It appears that the money has been moved in the president’s budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that’s the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can’t be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us.”
Also that June, with the 2004 hurricane season starting, the Corps’ project manager Al Naomi went before a local agency, the East Jefferson Levee Authority, and essentially begged for $2 million for urgent work that Washington was now unable to pay for. From the June 18, 2004 Times-Picayune:
“The system is in great shape, but the levees are sinking. Everything is sinking, and if we don’t get the money fast enough to raise them, then we can’t stay ahead of the settlement,” he said. “The problem that we have isn’t that the levee is low, but that the federal funds have dried up so that we can’t raise them.”
The panel authorized that money, and on July 1, 2004, it had to pony up another $250,000 when it learned that stretches of the levee in Metairie had sunk by four feet. The agency had to pay for the work with higher property taxes. The levee board noted in October 2004 that the feds were also now not paying for a hoped-for $15 million project to better shore up the banks of Lake Pontchartrain.
Frank
Despite local papers saying no one could say they hadn’t been warned Bush claimed no one anticipated the levees failing. He stopped work on exactly the levees which failed in 2003. He cut 80% of the Army Corp funding for this work 2 years ago.
daddyx
Apologist and wingnut…
I served this country for six years, and you refer to me as a wingnut and an apologist?
Get a freaking grip…
Terrible cards have been dealt, and now the people of New Orleans are stuck with this hand.
Do you know how much in the way of logistical planning and supplies that this rescue will require?
Even if they were fully prepared, this is not something that could happen overnight.
We are talking about moving an entire city of over 2 million citizens, and rescuing several hundred thousand who are probably scattered in a haphazard fashion across a city which occupies 350 square miles.
I’ll promise you that the FEMA doesn’t, we’ve never dealt with anything this large before.
Hell it’s such a big thing that it’s affecting the rest of the country as I type this.
And while I agree that things could have been done differently, now is not the time for this.
It disgusts many of us to see the finger pointing which is going on, on both “sides” of the issue.
So grow up, and hold off on the vitriol until things calm down. There will be plenty of time in the near future to determine what went wrong and right, in the upcoming weeks.
For christs sake there are people dying of exposure, thirst, and disease in one of our greatest cities.
Let’s help sort out the problems first.
Darrell
A couple of points Frank. First, the levees are killing off the wetlands which serve as buffers for the hurricanes, a huge negative:
Secondly, the levees are 15 feet high and are not a good solution for a number of reasons. Not just the costs, and the fact that the levees sink quickly and have to be continually rebuilt, or their destruction of the wetlands, but wave action on Lake Pontchartrain would likely breach the levees at some point, and this
30 feet high water with 15 foot high levees = catastrophe. Hell, water went over the levee in 1998 with Hurricane Georges which wasn’t a direct hit on NOLA either. The levees are as much a threat as they are protection.
Darrell
Posted by John Cole on another thread:
A fierce hurricane struck near a very vulnerable area resulting in a huge tragedy. All the red-faced finger pointing at Bush doesn’t change that one bit
Frank
Darrel- I am not sure why you are bringing this (levees bad) up. Are you saying it was a good thing that they failed? I don’t think you actually mean that. Bush was right to cut funding since they were damaging wetlands, and we should just regard the loss of N.O. as necessary egg breakage? Again I don’t think you really meant that. So whats up with your post?
I misread your earlier post somehow and thought you were claiming that the Army Corps of Engineers hadn’t had budget cuts in this area. The only things I know about FEMA are that the director resigned over budget cuts in 2002 and Bush replaced him with someone who had no experience, and that they no longer are supposed to be tasked for natural disasters. Bush moved all that to Homeland Security. If we have spent the last 4 years getting ready for a big terrorist attack, I don’t see any evidence of it now.
Frank
Darrel- Well certainly if that Colonel had said anything different he would be looking at the end of his career. No question about that. Loosing his job would also be the least of his problems after saying Bush had any blame.
Nate
Please explain to me how serving this country means that you can’t be a wingnut and an apologist?
Way to try and quash argument by bringing up your service. Is that why you joined up?
Yes, you’re right that our focus should be on NO, but look around you just a bit. We have Bush strumming on a guitar mere days ago, Condi in NYC buying shoes, and Ken Mehlman lobbying for an end to the death tax when thousands of people are dying or in need of urgent care. What kind of a message do you think they send? Even if NO had been as prepared as possible (and it wasn’t), it just looks callous.
That’s what you all said about 9/11 and Iraq. “Don’t ask questions and don’t point fingers.” Yeah, that would be a democracy. Do you want this to happen again, Vet? Then we’d damn well better start asking questions, because if we’re this unprepared for a natural disaster that we knew about, what’s going to hapopen when you or I get hit with the next terrorist attack?
Darrell
Yes moron, that is what I said.. I clearly said “I am glad the levees failed”. oh, wait, I never said or implied that, you just pulled it out of your ass
Fuck you for putting more words in my mouth which were NEVER said or implied
Frank wrote:
My exact words:
Not much there to “misread”.. and my earlier posts never even mentioned the Army corps of engineers as you falsely claim.
How so? Bridges blown away, roads under water.. share with us your ‘insights’ on how we could better distribute aid in these extreme circumstances
Irregardless of budget cuts the levees would have failed. Red herring issue. Furthermore, levees are a very flawed means of protecting the citizens of New Orleans from flooding as they are almost guaranteed to breach in the face of a category 3 or higher hurricane, they destroy wetland buffers, and they help trap water in the city
DougJ
Darrell, I think you’re right that there isn’t much they could have done to improve the levees in advance. I do wonder why couldn’t someone have gone around and checked the levees for breaches the next day. That seems to me like something for local or state officials to take care of, but I’m not sure. I could be wrong about this whole possibility. Maybe there’s no way to repair breeches.
I think the real issue is restoration of wetlands. There’s plenty of blame to go around there. It’s been a problem for something like 15 years. I make no claim to understand this, but it does seem like all the experts say it might have made a difference.
I think in the end, you’ve got to say none of the authorities here (local, state, or federal) covered themselves with glory here.
Frank
Dickbreath- I don’t claim any special insight into how to get supplies to people, though Bush should have let DART in by now and called they company that supplies heavy lift helecopters by now.
DougJ
I know I am not the moderator here nor do I have the respect of many of the posters — if the constant insults aimed at me are any indication — but I think too many of you are getting _way_ too hostile here. I understand that a lot on the left are angry (wrongly or rightly) at Bush about this and a lot of others — like Darrell — are angry at the left for doing this.
But let’s remember that we are all Americans and that — I hope — all of us are greatly saddened by the loss of life, the loss of homes, and the loss of a whole city’s culture that we may be witnessing. It is depressing to see this turn into name calling.
To those on the left, I hope you’ll notice that many on the right here are being pretty reasonable. For example, I’m willing to admit that the White House deserves some blame and Darrell admitted it was dumb of Bush to say no one thought the levees would break. So cut us a little slack.
jobiuspublius
It is not reasonable to cut our government looters any slack.
jobiuspublius
Doh, DougJ, missed the us in your last sentance. Don’t want you to think I’m calling you a government looter. I’m not.
maybee
To your original point, John-
I think there were definitely people that simply couldn’t leave NO, which is what the Superdome was supposed to be for. The people that couldn’t even get there- due to age or infirmity- theirs is the situation that will have to be most reviewed in the future.
But I’ve lived in hurricane areas, and it is fair to assume that people that say they chose not to leave did in fact, choose not to. After all, nothing like this had ever happened before.
I do wonder what affect the tv coverage has on people’s decisions not to leave. Watching Anderson Cooper and Rob Marciano standing outside through storm after storm- I’ve got to believe that people will think “If they can do that, surely I can sit in my own home”.
daddyx
First the rescue, then the issues.
So calm yourself down there, Nate. Your indignance isn’t a very endearing quality.
And I’m quashing discussion? Not at all.
I’m just simply pointing out that making any sort of political hay over this is disgusting at this point.
Again, there are lives to be saved.
And no matter what, it would take a few days to get a rescue off of the ground.
Where do you think the resources for the rescue mission would come from?
FEMA only coordinates, and the local police and fire departments only have so many people. The National Guard is there, but they are being overwhelmed.
We could ship in a Division from Ft. Polk to stabilize the area, but it would take time to muster the troops, get the fuel supplies, and to transport the troops there.
When they got there, how would they begin to secure the flooded areas, or rescue the wounded from those areas. The Army doesn’t have rubber rafts or boats just lying around.
When we get the people out, where would they put them? The operation would require a huge staging area. What about food for the troops, and the rescued. The soldiers may go in with a weeks worth of food, but anything beyond that would cause a huge issue. How about bathroooms, hospitals, replacement parts for the vehicles which break down.
What about the looting? Federal troops are not allowed to fire on US civilians, thanks to the Posse Comitatus act. So what do we do, arrest them? Where would we put them? Who is to judge what is OK looting (food, medicine, water) Vs. bad looting (TV’s, car radio’s and the like)?
And once more we are left with the issue of an already overwhelmed National Guard, Police force, and Fire Department.
You need to step back and think about the big picture, Nate.
To accuse me of being a wingnut and an apologist is definately off base, and as stupid as the idiotic KOS kidz blaming the President and his band of evil neo-con, Haliburton, Jooo’s of starving the levee fund for money, because he wanted more oil and to kill the black folk…
beemer
And this, at long last, is the ultimate example of the ownership society. Own, or get owned.
beemer
“First the rescue, then the issues.”
Ah, yes. Another accountability-free moment for BushCo.
RLinPenna
Its apparent, when it comes to human compassion we always need a wakeup call just like 9/11, and then it’s soon forgotten until we are awaken from that senseless sleep. The reality is it happened, we learn from our mistakes, but how many mistakes does our federal government have to make before they learn? Now, as I see it as a U.S. Citizen, and a retired miltary person, those poor souls in New Orleans paid the price in suffering, and taxes. They are entitled to the support of our nation, but our nation delayed the warnings. Now, should we let the federal government cause the trickle down effect, and request 10.5 (Billion) dollars they we must pay in the long run, or should we demand the help for what we and they paid for? Forget that night out, and make a donation to help pay the bill in full. It’s your choice, however mine, I made the donation from my pocket, and do whatever it takes to help my fellow citizen, no matter what the color of their skin, thats the bottom line. !!! Maybe we should learn what the Amish know so well, help ourselves within our community.
B. Ross
People who evacuated in cars but got stuck in the traffic jams were ordered to go back to the city. People stuck in hotels who couldn’t get planes out were ordered to go back. People without cars couldn’t get out unles they had friends who could take them. You have haves and have nots–the have nots, as in did not have a way out, regardless of economic class, were screwed. They need food, and water. First.
Money went to Iraq instead of toward building up the levees. That was Bush’s priority. He said, “No one anticipated that the levees would be breached” which is total, utter bullshit.
Why aren’t there helicopters dropping food and water to these stranded people? Where are the helicopters and the National Guard? Military helicopters can’t take a little sniper fire? Or aren’t there any damn helicopters left?
Nelson Muntz
Ha Ha!
(Must suck to be a Rethuglican with a semi-conscious conscience!)
jobiuspublius
That’s easy to say. I wonder what those in Katrina’s death trap would have to say about this? Desperation? Yes. But, desperation has a hell of lot more understanding of this situation than you’re expressing. Go to crooks and liars. Tell the victim in that clip there that he has no right to his opinion that Dear Leader shouldn’t be president anymore. If you ask me, his shit list is a little short, but, you have to understand he has real problems now so …
jobiuspublius
This disaster rivals 9/11, but, you’d never know it from watching TV. Nothing stops the clown show.
CP
I’m a little late to this thread, my comments may have been more poignant earlier this afternoon.
I was in Germany in 2001 during the worst floods that at least three countries(European countries) had EVER seen. The Elbe, one of the largest rivers in the world, overwhelmed its banks. The total death toll for all three countries was under 100. Germany sent emergency services/equipment from the other side of the country. They arrived as the flooding was happening- not in the aftermath. It wasn’t the military- it wasn’t the national guard- it wasn’t the fire department. It was emergency crews in existence in case of disasters.
I know we live in a much, much larger country than Germany and mobilizing forces and equipment and services is quite a more daunting proposition here. However, seeing as how this disaster occurred in an area where disasters can be counted on to happen. I have seen no such services. It’s the national guard. The footage I’ve seen of the national guard has portrayed the NG as soldiers. These emergency servies in Germany, those guys had bulldozers and shovels. Where are those services in NO?
It’s absolutely mind-boggling to me to see the differences between two countries that faced the worst disasters in their history.
What’s more, Gerhardt Shroeder was on the scene immediately. He was in boots wading through flooded streets to see first-hand the damage and to give support to the people, the victims. His demeanor: solemn and grave as was befitting of the situation. Not hopeful that we would be stronger than ever when we get through this. He didn’t have to answer to questions as to why it seems like the govt hadn’t done enough.
Why wasn’t an area prone to disasters equipped? Why do our politicians look so inept? I can only imagine what the sentiment is in other countries. Heartfelt in Germany, I can assure you. But confused as to the level of suffering that has resulted from the response or lack of a competent one.
jobiuspublius
But, CP, to the government appologists, Dear Leader is just a little slow to respond, and it’s all about the levees, and it’s hard work and … and oh cut our little buddy some slack.
jobiuspublius
It would be great to get footage of Shroeder. Maybe, it’ll sink in then.
CP
Yeah, and people are doing all they can in such an unprecedented disaster. Oh yeah, and thank you politicians for showing all your support. Yadda yadda yadda. I’m sure that’s what’s on the minds of all the starving suffering hurricane/flood victims.
Seriously, I have not seen footage of one piece of large equipment. I haven’t seen footage of sandbags. I haven’t even seen a shovel in he hands of an emergency worker. Hell, I haven’t even seen an emergency worker. Are they there and the media just isn’t showing them? It seems for sure that Fox would jump to the defense. But all I’ve seen are soldiers. Probably necessary given the circumstances(poverty, heat, lack of food and water- I’d be pissed), but where are the bulldozers and shovels and backhoes?
daddyx
Exactly what I’m talking about. One side is as bad as the other.
Darrell
CP, thanks for your comments, but there is really no comparison to New Orleans. First of all, did the Elbe river experience a Category 3 – 4 hurricane? No? Wasn’t the flooding a result of a dam breaking? Well then, we can all see how “valid” your comparison is. Any cities near the Elbe below sea level like New Orleans? no again? Well then, you are certainly qualified to lecture Americans based on your experience. Do you see what a moron you are? just curious as to how dishonest you Eurotrash really are
Darrell
Glad to see all the support from our European/Eurotrash “friends”. In case the European press hasn’t reported it, most of NOLA is underwater, making the operation of bulldozers a bit difficult. just thought you might want to know
jobiuspublius
Just so we understand, I was sarcastic here. I’m not really cutting him some slack. He should get his own tailor.
CP
Touche. You make some good points. But aren’t we one of the most tech-advanced nations in the world? It just seems like there would be some heavy equipment- be it aerial, amphibious, land-based- whatever. I just haven’t seen it. The cultural story of societal breakdown is of utmost importance and relevance. But I haven’t seen any cleanup- any damming of the levees. These aren’t even stories- they’re sidenotes. I heard once in the very beginning about how there would be sand(bags) dropped to block the levee breaks. I haven’t heard anything since the first day after the storm hit. Is the media not covering the cleanup efforts? The efforts need to multi-faceted- survival supplies, cleanup, transportation.
Nate
Indignance generally isn’t. You’re right on the ball, I see.
But it could *not* be more disgusting than the number of times the Right has invoked (and defiled) 9/11. So stop the innocent virgin bit, please. *That’s* disgusting!
I wonder why.
You’re just blathering excuses, and this time the press has caught on, thank God.
No, *you* need to see the big picture. About time you conservatives did. “Carrying water” for the Administration now has a new meaning.
If the galoshes fit…
djc
gNate’s back!!!
I see the mouthy little boy is in fine form tonight. He must have a lot of free time these days, because he’s around this blog like a fly around a pile of dogshit.
Ballet business a little slow in NYC thse days? Or is it just slow for you? I suspect the latter.
Nate
I’m not finished yet,daddy-o…
Nearly every major newspaper is carrying articles with local officials blasting federal preparedness. Do you know better than they do? I’m in awe.
For me (and for a lot of people), it’s not just that. It’s that when things REALLY matter to BushCo., they can move mountains: return *really* early from vacations, convene emergency sessions of congress, start wars, give enormous tax cuts, etc. Katrina makes landfall and where are Bush, Cheney, and Rice after the extent of the disaster is made known? On vacation.
Go ahead, justify, and then explain again how you’re not an apologist…
djc
gNate,
Do you have a job?
Didn’t think so.
Quit blaming theBushHitler and Haliburton for you’re miserable position in life.
Be a patriot and go down the NO Convention Center and get gang-raped.
daddyx
So Nate, there it is in all of it’s foul glory.
I wondered how long it would take you to get around to spewing the same noxious points that I’ve been hearing for the past five years.
People like you are the reason I’m now an Independant.
You sound just like the Republicans I used to laugh at back in the mid-nineties who were constantly yapping about the black UN helicopters…
By the way, you’d make a better case if you’d bite your tounge and wait a few more days for them to recover the victims of this terrible natural disaster before you start screaming your BushCo mantra.
But I guess there’s nothing like striking the iron while it’s hot, eh Nate.
BinkyBoy
djc and daddyx are complete waste of electrons.
Bush and his worthless cronies should all be marched out of the White House and a new leader appointed from the Military. The lack of leadership and organization is going to destroy this country.
Just think what a terrorist attack or another natural disaster would do to this country.
The little turd president has had 4 days and has given 3 useless non-compassionate speeches. WOW, color me not impressed. Get the little barney-humper out of there and get someone with some balls and a brain to get us back and working again.
Yogimus
2 options were available.
Leave, or Stay.
One option was harder than the other. Much harder. But it was still a conscious CHOICE that they made. As such, no pity.
Henry Smith
We Americans claim to be believers in God, but refuse to see His warnings. It could be a warning from God that if we keep on throwing bombs on innocent people in Baghdad and in Afghanistan while trying to kill the terrorists, this is what could happen to America. We have to think of a peaceful way out of hurting the poor, the needy and the ignorant.
Ivan
Give me a break! You bunch of whiney cry babies. I live in Ukraine. Most people here find it incredible that your “poor” people weigh 400 lbs. Here there are very few who can afford to get fat. The average wage here is equal in buying power to 200 USD per month. Most of us do not have to pay rent, or medical care, but the rest is the same. I’ve lived in both places. Most of use would give our left arm to be a “poor American”. Judging by the looks of most Americans, they couldn’t exit one of our subways (200 steps) much less walk out of New Orleans.
It is incredible to me that someone could live below sea level next to an Ocean and a lake and a river, in hurricane country, and have no plan, no self-provision, to escape. (Couldn’t even manage to save up for a tent?) So you blame it on your government. We were once communists. Even our socialist goverment never taught us to be such spoilt babies.
John Hubbard
Listen, it’s a sad fact that there never was, and never COULD be a solution to poverty. It is simply impossible to make people work and overcome the innate desire of laziness. There are those few who are legitimately helpless who are taken care of by the government, their family, their neighbors. But in the end, this life is all about survival. If you choose to give up and look to blame someone else, you will stay in that situation. Suck it up and bite the bullet. Bad things, catastrophes happen and man will never be equipped enough to avoid them. This isn’t the first time New Orleans has been devastated by flood. If I had half a brain and just TWO cents, I’d WALK out of that area and find another town to apply for aid from.