I was actually looking for something to talk about other than the hurricane, and I found this in the Science section of the Times. Some more info rolling in on the levee that failed:
In an interview last night, Mr. Naomi said the cuts had made it impossible to complete contracts for vital upgrades that were part of the long-term plan to renovate the system.
This week, amid news of the widening breach in the 17th Street Canal, he realized that the decadeslong string of near misses had ended.
“A breach under these conditions was ultimately not surprising,” he said last night. “I had hoped that we had overdesigned it to a point that it would not fail. But you can overdesign only so much, and then a failure has to come.”
No one expected that weak spot to be on a canal that, if anything, had received more attention and shoring up than many other spots in the region. It did not have broad berms, but it did have strong concrete walls.
Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that was particularly surprising because the break was “along a section that was just upgraded.”
“It did not have an earthen levee,” Dr. Penland said. “It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick.”
The story also has this:
Since 2001, the Louisiana Congressional delegation had pushed for far more money for storm protection than the Bush administration has accepted. Now, Mr. Naomi said, all the quibbling over the storm budget, or even over full Category 5 protection, which would cost several billion dollars, seemed tragically absurd.
“It would take $2.5 billion to build a Category 5 protection system, and we’re talking about tens of billions in losses, all that lost productivity, and so many lost lives and injuries and personal trauma you’ll never get over,” Mr. Naomi said. “People will be scarred for life by this event.”
I don’t understand why the levee’s were not already at Cat 5 level, and I don’t understand why they hadn’t been there or under construction since Camille. And I am all for a debate on the spending priorities of this administration and congress, and I have no answers for the cuts in light of all the gigantic spending bills this congress and President have passed and signed.
But until we know what happened, and according to the information that keeps coming in, the cuts and unfinished projects had little to do with the actual failure, I would appreciate it if folks would cut the noxious attempts to pin this levee failure on Bush and this administration.
*** Update ***
james richardson
I agree that some people are jumping on the Blame Bush Bandwagon a little too…. eagerly and ferociously, but your last two paragraphs… it is almost as if you answered paragraph two with what you said in paragraph one.
Humans didn’t cause Katrina, but humans do control the funding for preparedness against the effects of storms like Katrina. I am glad you are taking a cool-headed approach to all this though. It’s refreshing in the blogosphere.
james richardson
errr… make that answered #1 with what you said in #2.
notamerican
2.5 billion that s like 4 weeks of irak war.
i can just picture OBL and his minions right now comtemlpating the possibilities…
Peter T.
Will folks cut the noxious attempts to forestall criticism of the Bush team’s reaction to the catastrophe by disingenuously pretending the critics are blaming Bush for the hurricane?
maybee
But if the hurricane had hit another city, and caused a different kind of damage, the people blaming Bush now would say, “Oh, he didn’t protect Tampa because he allocated money to New Orleans where they haven’t had a cat5 hurricane in 50 years.” The same argument would have happened if this had been a terrorist attack in the French Quarter. Then it would be, “Instead of spending money on homeland security, he spent it on money on an aging levee system.”
This whole line of argument is also similar to those that, after Columbine, couldn’t believe schools didn’t already have mandatory metal detectors. Surely someone knew that one day a student could bring a gun to school???
Disaster mitigation is very much about allocating money where it is most likely to do the most good against the most likely scenarios. It doesn’t mean you can protect against all scenarios you deem possible.
But that is exactly why this line of blame is so fruitful for those that seek to politicize. No matter the tragedy, there is always something else that could have been done.
ppGaz
If this has already been seen here, my apologies.
The link is courtesy of DKos. If there is any doubt that our current disaster was forseen, this should clear the matter up.
I posted this to another thread by accident; if the dupe is illegal, please pull down the other one.
National Geographic Sees the Future?
Mike
A “system” is more than a wall. It’s not unlikely (though I have no idea how the money would have been spent) that Cat 5 preparations involve more than stengthening levees. I’d like to think it might include plans to evacuate those who couldn’t otherwise leave ahead of a known approaching disaster, ensuring hospitals, etc. had capable generators, emergency supplies, etc., plans to move refugees after a disaster (one would expect that just as a part of the billions spent on homeland security in the last few years, if not hurricane prep), and so many other elements of preparing for what we knew was an eventuality.
I agree with you in the sense that this would have been a major disaster in any case. But, how much better might we have coped with it? We can’t know. But what we do know is that thus far, it’s looking very bad indeed, and those cuts are difficult to defend under the circumstances.
JC
Well, it’s a little early to do an analysis on why the levee failed – and also, I believe there are two levees that have failed, right?
But otherwise, you are attacking a straw man argument. While some may say “Bush did it”, most responsible people are looking at:
1. The chronic underfunding for these type of projects.
2. The moving of these funds to Iraq needs
3. The slow, fuzzy, response.
4. The dishonesty or spinning of the president on Good Morning America – look at redstate.
5. The dishonesty or absolutely incompetence today on “we didn’t know about the convention center”.
6. The 4 day lag in getting food and water to those well-known places, such as the convention center, that have had reporters for days.
7. And lastly – and isn’t this familiar? – the lack of “boots on the ground”.
Haven’t you been watching CNN? The absolute lack of coordination, lack of planning? The whole point of DHS, FEMA, is to respond to things like this in a “national emergency”, but these guys decimated the infrastructure necessary to respond quickly.
scs
Good article. Love the NYT, they are always so in-depth and answer the detail questions no one else does. So the newly reinforced part broke. That leads me to think the only way to prevent this entirely was to move people out of there.
rkrider
“I don’t think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees.” G. W. Bush (today on GMA)
I would appreciate it if folks would cut the noxious attempts to pin this levee failure on Bush and this administration.
We’ll cut out the noxious attempts, when you admit Bush is a lying, usless monkey.
People dying on televison, no water, no medicine, babies dying, no food, people living in human waste.
One phone call from Bush and those people could have been taken care of. You’ve been watching on your television, and all you want to do is protect this incompetent asshole…un-fucking-believable.
hadenoughofthisyet
I don’t understand how Congress could approve (in the recent highway bill) to spend $231 million on a bridge to a small, uninhabited Alaskan island while cutting $42 million for hurricane and flood projects in New Orleans.
It just boggles my mind.
Charlie (Colorado)
… but part of the point here is that the failure was in a levee that had already been upgraded. Got that? Already upgraded.
If the $42 million (which was, in fact, for a feasibility study that wouldn’t have been finished until 2008) had been spent … the levee there would still have failed.
hadenoughofthisyet
Well, at least we get a bridge to no where out of the deal, eh?
james richardson
errr ignore my 2nd post, the 1st one was right. but to maybee…. since tampa is on the shore on a penensula, and new orleans is on the shore and an important port city, you’d think they’d both get money. it’s not like you send the hurricane money to kansas….
GT
Charlie got it right.
What’s more amusing is how no one is asking..
“Why would this levee issue be the Federal government’s problem?”
I’m reasonably certain that it shouldn’t be. we don’t need the Fed micro managing every city and state. (It happens enough for god sakes)
If we must blame someone, Why not the city of NO or the state? That’s who’s responisbility the place is after all. Why eren’t the funds for such an upgrade (that would have failed anyway as we can see) paid for by the people who lived there and not the entire nation?
What were they doing begging, pleading or pork bareling the feds for it?
So put the blame (if you must) wheere it lies, with teh people who are in charge of the city.
Accountability is a dirty word
This is bipartisan failure. Why the federal government wouldn’t fork out $2.5 billion to overengineer for the worst case scenario, knowing full well the doomsday scenario we are now in will cost 20X that or more, is completely irrational.
Were Bush’s specific budget cuts (made urgent due to massive deficits for other reasons) to blame? No.
Was FEMA woefully unprepared for very realistic and much discussed contingencies that have occured? No.
Accountability is a dirty word
The answer to that last question should have been YES.
rkrider
Fuck the levees….what do you think about Bush letting these people in NO die right in front of his eyes, without lifting a finger to help them? Wake the fuck up people, Bush doesn’t give a rat’s ass about anybody but the “haves and have mores.” There is absolutely no excuse in heaven or on earth for him not ordering immeadiate help for those hurricane victims.
There right there on your TV! the old, the sick, the poor…this is supposed to be a Christian man, WTF!?!?
ppGaz
As you say, so it would seem. Also unprepared were the city government and the State of Louisiana.
Zifnab
You can’t blame a man for a hurricane, even a man who callously disregards Global Warming. You can’t blame an administration for the same reasons.
But an error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it. The error of allowing New Orleans to lay prone to this level of devistation has been compounded by the tragic mistake of doing the bare minimum to actively fix the problem. When Mehlmen wants more tax cuts and Condi is off shoe shopping (I don’t care if this isn’t technically in her jurisdiction, she could be doing SOMETHING better with her time), you have to question where the responsibilities of a Party and it’s people finally pick up.
Accountability is a dirty word
Since John cited the NY Times in making his point, he should also cite this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/02levee.html?pagewanted=2
The ACOE had no system in place to detect small breaches and they had no immediate materials in place to stop a breach. Thus, the heavy choppers were diverted to rescue when there may have been a chance to stop the breach before it spread. If there were not enough heavy choppers why weren’t they contracted? I would even think big Dick’s company had a few in the area?
james richardson
GT, there are some emergencies that are larger than one state government can afford or prepare for. florida got emergency money no problem. hopefully that wasn’t just because jeb is in charge. surely LA, MS and AL deserve no less. or should we just leave it to be “every man to himself, and the sick and poor who can’t evacuate to their summer homes are screwed and should die in peace”?
maybee
james richardson-
I don’t understand what you mean by ‘hurricane money’. There isn’t special hurricane money out there. Just plain old money.
No, you wouldn’t send hurricane money to Kansas, but you would send money to upgrade tornado warning systems, or drought protections, or irrigation systems, or flood mitigation. And once that money is spent, it can’t be spent somewhere else.
So in your example, you spend money in Tampa’s port and on NO’s levee and then you don’t have money to spend it on Kansas City and suddenly there’s a flood and look! Bush wasted all that money on two areas that rarely get bad hurricanes!
This does point out that pork is dangerous in two ways. It spends money needlessly, and it takes money away from projects that are truly needed. But who knows? Maybe those proposing the levee studies saw even those studies as pork.
rkrider
Bush’s plan, it all makes sense now:
james richardson
how bout you spend money for hurricanes and tornados? how about your priorities include more poor, who don’t have the resources to leave during a crisis? how about you stop trying to downsize fema and stop putting political allies in charge of it who have no experience in distaster management? how about you don’t roll fema into homeland seurity and turn it’s focus into terrorism? couldn’t what see in NOLA right now be the same as an aftermath of a terrorist attack? is this really all of what we’re capable of? is this what it’s going to be like after another terrorist attack?
John Cole
Yeah. Sure. I would want every last damn american sleeping in a cot in 2 feet of water before I would recommend contacting Halliburton for anything to help in this disaster.
We would lose 1/3 of the public, as the left’s heads all simultaneously exploded upon learning about it.
ppGaz
Well, the missus and I were just accidentally tuning into yet another New Orleans / Katrina report.
There is Chertoff, in his weird manner of speech:
I swear to God, he said this.
My wife burst out laughing. I just shook my head.
I really think this is the end of the potatohead government. For two days I held out for more time, let’s wait and see.
Sorry, time’s up. I am convinced that these potatoheads couldn’t govern their way out of a paper bag if we gave them a head start, flashlights, a map and an instruction book.
They are just absolutely embarassing and feckless. Their every word and action is just hopelessly insincere, out of touch with reality, the very embodiment of “talk is cheap.”
Just like everything else they have done.
I knew they were bad, but I never really thought they could screw up something as badly as this.
These are the guys who are going to build a new, stable Iraq? These are the guys who are going to protect us from terrorism?
Good lord, we are so fucked.
jobiuspublius
Just wait till the survivors get a hold the videos of these Dear Jackasses waddling around with their feet in their mouths, while people died.
maybee
james richardson-
I completely agree that more thought and money for protection needs to be put into people who cannot leave in disasters in the future.
As for the rest of your post, you are doing exactly what I said is the problem (or joy, depending) of the argument. There are a million ways to spend money, but choices have to be made on the best way to spend it because it simply cannot be spent everywhere. And the minute something happens, you can always find a way that money that was spent for the OTHER thing would have stopped/lessened this thing.
There’s a flood? Complain the money went to Homeland Security. There’s a terrorist attack? Complain the money was spent on the levee. Or sidestep both arguments and complain the money went to Iraq (while also complaining that Iraq isn’t being rebuilt fast enough).
Perhaps if 6 months ago we had seen some politicians standing up and screaming that this was going to happen and it was more important and more dire than any other priority- rather than screaming that we were
a) not spending enough on the troops’ protection
b) not spending enough to protect ports/trains/cities from terrorist attacks
then I could have some sympathy for this particular argument.
srv
Protecting N.O. for a Cat 5 is like protecting yourself against an F5 tornado. How you can take hundreds of miles of levees and stop a 25′ storm surge, it just isn’t going to happen.
rilkefan
Once again, the storm was not Cat 5 at landfall.
srv
I didn’t say it was. The topic above discusses building Cat 5 levees.
jobiuspublius
So, people’s complaints never have any merit. It’s all just politics, for this side, but not for that one.
Actually, the complaints go back as far as 2001, at the very least. That was covered extensively today. Look around.
space
You know, it seems to me that this ultimately misses the point. The administration should be blamed for doing stupid things. Whether or not the budget cuts ultimately were a cause of the breach is academic. The stupidity was in cutting funding the programs despite the fact that a breach was a very real possibility and the consequences of a breach were horrific.
Similarly, the continued failure of the administration to protect chemical plants against attacks is incredibly stupid…even though no such attacks have happpened yet.
maybee
jobius-
“So people’s complaints never have any merit. It’s all just politics, for this side, but not for that one.”
Is that your argument? Because it certainly isn’t mine. I think both sides can play politics but I prefer it when they don’t, especially in situations like this.
I know there were complaints about the levees- for decades, I believe. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about someone that had the certainty BEFORE this happened that this was the one disaster to rule them all. Because everyone is blaming Bush for not realizing that, and foolishly putting his focus on other potentials for disaster.
And as I said, that is a easy argument for political opponents to use, because it can be used in every single bad situation.
rilkefan
John still insists on his strawman despite being called on it at 1) here.
ppGaz
Welp … it was a long day here at the ppGaz compound. If I told you all what I have been doing, you would just shit.
But anyway, I started out on Day 2 of “Let’s wait before bashing the gummint” on this Katrina thing.
I have just watched Nightline. I have seen Ted Koppel absolutely dismantle the head of FEMA in a nose-to-nose Q and A session. I have heard the gummint talking heads.
I have voted in my private voting chamber and I am ready to announce my decision:
It’s over. Credibility in this government is now over. This government and this catastrophe are an embarassment to this country, around the world, and indicates a real danger to the safety of every citizen of this country. These are the people running a war? Protecting us from terror? Be afraid, very afraid.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not “blaming” the Spuds for Katrina, or even for the failed levees.
What I’m seeing is that these idiots, these morons, are completely incompetant, they do not speak to real people and to real problems with truth and honesty, they absolutely can’t do anything right. You are watching a national calamity and a spectacle of bungling and doublespeak the likes of which I have never seen in my six decades, in this country.
Chertoff? The man is a laugh-out-loud buffoon. Brown? Completely incompetant, and either stupid, or dishonest. Bush? Every newsperson on every responsible (non-FOX) channel is almost laughing out loud at the “we didn’t know the levees would break” gaffe.
If you get a chance to see Nightline, do so, you will be flabbergasted at how bad Mr. Brown looked, and how bad his answers were. I mean, you can’t imagine that any person in a management role anywhere could have a day like this and not get fired on the spot. Yet, there he is.
These guys may bounce back from this colossal failure, I don’t know. But as of tonight, I’m telling you, there is no excuse for apologizing for them any longer in regard to this disaster. They’ve been put to the test, and they have failed that test. It’s my opinion that this will be the judgement of the people when the noise from this has died down. The government that rushed to town on a Sunday to vote a feeding tube for a braindead woman cannot seem to get food and water to a couple of evacuation centers fast enough to prevent a bunch of people and babies from dying of dehydration, heat exhaustion, and lack of medical care.
Say whatever you want, Bush apologists. It doesn’t matter. The record on this has been laid down, and it’s not something that is going to be spun away or distracted from.
Ignore the “don’t you dare criticize Bush” mantra surrounding this story. Just ignore it. It’s just the Wizard of Oz’s frantic curtain-flapping. Criticize away. These potatoheads deserve no cover, and no break here. Give it to them with both barrels. Every last vestige of their claim to some high ground here …. gone.
“We didn’t know the levees would be breached.”
That will be the epitaph of this sorry bunch of imcompetant crapheads.
rilkefan
“That will be the epitaph of this sorry bunch of imcompetant crapheads.”
Maybe if they commission the headstones themselves. Not to attract your obviously able wrath, ppGaz, but it’s “incompetent”, which I point out only because it’s going to be so much in use in the coming months.
PotVsKtl
Bottom line, the FEMA leadership is totally incompetent. People have known about the thousands suffering at the NOLA Convention Center for days and Chertoff had the nerve to go on national television and claim they had just learned about it and were working desperately to get aid to them.
The pathetic response by FEMA (psrtially a result of totally unqualified jerkoffs being installed at the top levels and partially due to being essentially abandoned by this administration) will ultimately be responsible for hundreds of needless deaths.
Ancient Purple
I am completely stunned. I am honestly not sure if we have a government that has any expertise or common sense in dealing with this crisis.
I am simply dumbfounded by the FEMA and HS management team. They are PR suits with nothing meaningful to contribute. Brown and Chertoff are disgraces as civil servants and as human beings. We are now on day five since the hurricane struck and the federal government is nowhere to be found except giving flowery speeches or denying their gross incompetence.
Oh! Strike that. I stand corrected. Bush is appearing on Good Morning America and saying that no one in the entire world had a clue that the levees could ever fail. Dick Cheney is on vacation in Wyoming. Condi Rice is hoping to God she gets tickets to Spamalot! for tonight (because, after all, she just bought new shoes and what a better way to show off her Prada purchases than a night out on Broadway). And has anyone heard a peep out of Interior Secretary Gale Norton?
This entire travesty is a clear indication that nothing has changed since 9/11. The federal government is prepared for nothing. We are sitting ducks and when the next disaster happens, everyone will wring their hands and say, “We had no idea.”
Ah, but at least we all got tax cuts, so all is grand.
PotVsKtl
The problem is that this administration has been handing out positions left and right to totally unqualified assholes. Now we are seeing the fruits of that position. Congratulations jerkoffs, you’re wrecking our nation.
Veeshir
ppGaz, I really liked when you wrote this
I have voted in my private voting chamber and I am ready to announce my decision:
It’s over. Credibility in this government is now over.
That’s quite the strong statement coming from somebody who totally supported and trusted this administration so much before.
What’s next? Tom Daschle being saddened by the developments. Ted Kennedy going off the wagon?
Wonders abound.
DecidedFenceSitter
Except Veeshir, for all his standard dislike of the Bush Administration, PPGAZ has been consistent in his, “Would you liberals pleas shut up until after we save people?” Meme.
I think a lot of the problems are coming from the “Starve the Beast” and “Drown it in a Bathtub” thought processes that are on the side of the right.
Hell, I’ve been reevaluating my small-government leanings in the last several days.
I think, and note this is currently evolving, that my stance is changing to, “Government is there to protect us from the Other”. From another nation, to the weather, to our neighbors. Now where this falls precisely, I’m still not sure, and there will always be grey.
But I think a lot of the current problems I think occur due to the “Federal Gov’t IS the problem” thought process, or “We’re from the gov’t and we’re here to help” being considered a nightmare.
Cromagnon
The slow response is because the White House has two other overriding priorities at the moment:
1) Insulate Bush from any potential political fallout or accountability. Talking points are being distrubuted to all the usual suspects in the punditry at this moment
2) Figuring out how to best gain politically from the situation. How best to stage-manage the photo ops today so the president looks concerned and engaged
Seriously… Does anyone really believe Bush gives a rats ass about whats going on other than how it will affect him politically??? After all, he doesn’t get to play war-leader and invade someone or launch a bombing campaign
John S.
Tell that to tens of thousands of people that suddenly find themselves unwilling participants in Mad Max: Beyond the Bayou.
Yes, this is not entirely Bush’s fault. It is decades of systemic failure by government authorities – local, state and federal. But right now, Bush is the head of the government. And when people are upset and dismayed with their government, who else do you expect them to blame?
When does the buck ever stop with Bush, John?
CyberLady
About $250M was allocated to NO in 2000 to help to reinforce the levee system. Unfortunately, our fearless leader wanted to invade Iraq and, as a consequence, the allocation was cut to about $50M.
What a beautiful, fun and facinating city New Orleans was. I lived there for 12 years and it’s always had a special place in my heart. I loved living there and go back as often as I can.
Everyone who knows NO knows that hurricane season is always a “crap shoot”. Katrina was the storm that we all feared, coming into the mouth of the river and lake. We knew it would happen some day and it did. The incredible thing is that Homeland Security only recently evaluated various risks that would affect the nation and the top three were EQ in a major city like LA, another terrorist attack and a major hurricane hitting New Orleans. Everyone knew what could and would eventually happen there.
The thought of them not rebuilding and/or not being able to rebuild this unique city makes me very sad.
Bob
My prediction is that the Bush helicopter will not land in New Orleans proper when he tours today. But if he does maybe he can pose next to a corpse that’s been laying out in the sun for 48 hours, being gnawed on by rats.
jobiuspublius
Northcomm just came out of Dear Leaders mouth.
Someone will quickly point out “Completing every recommended project over a decade” and say, “See, leave Dear Leader alone”. No, this simply shows that Dear Leader has a lot of accomplices. I’m tired of the blame, even though I think it’s for a good cause. I just want people to get rescued. But, I just saw a white guy stranded in mississippi in a sea of flattened houses. “They can send all those helicoptors to Iraq? And they can’t do that for us? C’mon bush, you can do better than that.”
jobiuspublius
Forgot the link to the above.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/opinion/02fischetti.html
jobiuspublius
And lets not forget that a hurricane in N.O. ranked up there with terrorrism.
Narvy
JC says
The President is not responsible for the levee failure (after all, “I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees”). The President is not responsible for Hurricane Katrina.
The President is responsible for demonstrating leadership, by returning from his vacation immediately and demanding an accounting of plans and activities of FEMA and Homeland Security (you know, the agency that refused assistance from the Canadian urban search and rescue team). The President is responsible for appointing Brown to head FEMA and Chertoff to DHS and thereby responsible for their incompetence. The President is responsible for ensuring that his promises of help are fulfilled quickly:
(A little specificity wouldn’t hurt either: food? potable water? shelter? medical supplies? power generators? law enforcement assistance?)
The President is responsible for acting like the President of the United States, which I do not think he has done.
Speaking of not anticipating a levee breach, consider this bit from Senator Feinstein’s (D-CA) website:
The fun just never stops.
SRN
From Wonkette:
“This is from a friend at the EPA:
We’re naming it Lake George, ’cause it’s his frickin fault. Have you seen all that data about the levee projects’ funding being cut over the past three years by the Prez, and the funding transferred to Iraq? The levee, as designed, might not have held back the surge from a direct Class 5 hit, but it certainly would not have crumbled on Monday night from saturation and scour erosion following a glancing blow from a Class 3. The failure was in a spot that had just been rebuilt, not yet compacted, not planted, and not armed (hardened with rock/concrete). The project should have been done two years ago, but the federal gov’t diverted 80% of the funding to Iraq. Other areas had settled by a few feet from their design specs, and the money to repair them was diverted to Iraq.”
Darrell
That pretty well sums up the ‘thinking’ of the left. Next up, the left will dump a truckload of New Orleans corpses at the Crawford ranch while screaming “see what you’ve done Chimp, it’s all your fault!”
p.lukasiak
I held back on being part of the “Blame Bush” crowd, but the evidence keeps piling up that the extent of the disasterous chaos we are now seeing in N.O. is a result of Bush’s policies.
Simply put, I cannot understand why we cannot get 100,000 people out of a city that is literally drowning in four days. I can come up with ideas…. a flotilla of small boats ferrying people to barges that will take them to safety in Texas or Florida…. commandeering every Bus in a 500 mile area to get those people out of there….
Where is the leadership? Where is the person saying “For Christs sake, these are Americans….GET IT DONE!”
Darrell
I agree with much of what Lukasiak wrote. What I don’t think most people grasp is the level of devastation in that area, especially the destruction of infrastructure needed to deliver aid and the fact that the city is underwater. FYI, there has been a flotilla of small flat bottom boats (virtually all of them volunteer sportsman using their own boats) early on. I recall the first or 2nd day one guy on CNN saying he had rescued over 100 people in his little boat that day alone. Could more have been done? Probably. But given the devasation, I’m not convinced yet that it’s anything more than dealing with an unbelievably difficult situation. New Orleans is a city below sea level.
However, I am quite sympathetic to the “JUST GET IT DONE DAMNIT!” sentiments expressed. I think a full airing of how this was handled needs to be done and govt officials from top to bottom need to be held accountable. But my feeling is that New Orleans is a unique city with unique vulnerabilities… and that no matter what the preparation and planning, not much more could be done in the face of such a severe hurricane striking so close to the city.
I’d also like to know why the levees weren’t originally designed for Cat 5 levels. My guess is the costs would have been so astronomical (although less than what it’s costing after the fact) that no politician was willing to take ownership of the idea/project, as the height of the walls would have to be DOUBLED around the entire network of levees (to sustain the 30 foot water from a Cat5), plus additional reinforcement, plus the cost of right-of-way land.. and factoring in the fact that levees continually sink, and they sink quickly.
Narvy
after my previous post (September 2nd, 2005 at 10:08 am – can’t get the link to work) I found this item:
So maybe some of my concerns are being belatedly addressed. BUT…
That’s Leadership!
jobiuspublius
I heard Gerry Springer’s favorite caller, Ed, today. He’s ex-army, a Dear Leader and Iraq war supporter who still, to this very day, literally, thinks Dear Leader is handling Iraq as well as can be handled.
Ed was livid about the response Dear Leader and friends have had to this disaster. Ed does not normally come across as the worlds most sensible or compassionate person.
………
OH FUCKING CRAP DEAR LEADER IN MOBILE HAVING A FOTO OP WITH MILITARY PERSONNEL I’M PUKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
shark
If you want to blame Bush, please also place blame on every President, Congress, LA Gov, and New Orleans mayor since HURRICANE CAMILLE for not getting this upgraded to cat. 5 measures
George Turner
p.lukasaik,
The Astrodome is already filled with people who left NO on buses. Meanwhile, people spending their time bashing Bush have failed to keep up with current events.
jobiuspublius
I’m watching Dear Leader on TV now having a fucking foto op. He’s yammering to rescue people. Telling them what they will do. The boy king is lecturing. He mentioned rebuilding Trent Lott’s house,
You dont say. THIS IS PATHETIC
L.A. and M.S. governors are sucking up to Dear Leader. This was contrasted with “What was coming out of New Orleans yesterday. … S.O.S”
jobiuspublius
N.O. is considered too dangerous for the president, so, he is 2 states away. To much is being made of the looting, in a sense. It is important, but, there seems to be a hype, an expectation. What about the thousands of innocent harmless people needing rescue?
jobiuspublius
The cover up begins.
CyberLady
I truly hope he doesn’t try to go into the city of New Orleans. If he does, everything will stop until he’s back out again.
If his handlers have a brain in their heads they’ll keep him at the nice, air-conditioned airport.
Pray that he does!
Darrell
No, no, it’s not that Bush wants to avoid diverting resources and attention away from rescue operations to a Presidential visit in NOLA.. it’s that Dear leader is hiding from the problems he created there, don’t you see?
Narvy
Actually, he did that earlier in the week at Crawford.
tBone
I don’t know – we’ve seen a lot of eerily-prescient predictions about the consequences of a storm like this, dating back to at least 2001 and probably well before that. Nothing that’s been happening since the storm should have come as a surprise.
From all of the chaos we’re seeing, it sure looks like either a) the preparation and planning was grossly inadequate, or b) the implementation of that planning and preparation was grossly incompetent.
Note that I’m not trying to place blame here – there will be plenty to go around, I’m sure, and I know that everyone who’s down there right now is doing their best in an awful situation. But I think saying “not much more could be done” is kind of a cop-out in this case, and I’ll be amazed if we don’t see lots of heads rolling on a local, state and federal level before this is over.
NickFurious
Whoa. Deep breath folks.
“Waiting two days” to make a judgement is probably adequate for American Idol, but this seems more complicated as bits unfold. Read the below.
From the WaPo :
And this from the local NO paper (8/28!)
I am sure we will learn more as we start to hear from sources other than the cable news personalities.
Larry West
Blaming Bush for the levee needs debate but there is no debate that FEMA failed to do its job after the flood, droping food and water was their responsablity…Their job is to respond after a natural desaster…saving lives…”Brownie” must be fired.