So someone claimed Bush “doesn’t care about black people.”
I think the title sums up my reaction, but along with the levee nonsense that was started before the city was even fully flooded, it will be conventional wisdom by the next election that Bush was trying to actually kill all the black people in New Orleans.
Jesse Jackson, the Congressional Black Caucus, and our friends on the left will see to that:
If the federal response has seemed flat-footed, does anyone believe that President Bush got on the phone with the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, Michael Brown, and said, “Hey, Michael, let’s slow-walk this thing — we’re talking about mostly black victims here”?
Apparently some people do believe it. According to Jesse Jackson, “Many black people feel that their race, their property conditions and their voting patterns have been a factor in the response.” Voting patterns! Louisiana voted for Bush and just elected a Republican U.S. senator. Is it plausible to think Bush wanted to watch the state’s major city sink into chaos for political reasons? Not to mention that the chairman of the Republican National Committee, Ken Mehlman, has devoted his chairmanship to winning more black voters.
A professor at the University of Massachusetts, Martin Espada, told the New York Times: “We tend to think of natural disasters as somehow evenhanded, as somehow random. Yet it has always been thus: Poor people are in danger. It’s dangerous to be poor. It’s dangerous to be black. It’s dangerous to be Latino.”
More here, and some abuse for Kanye Who? here.
I guess you don’t know but Kanye West is the biggest rapper in America right now.
I was thinking about the Bush bashing last night. Lord knows I’ve been doing this myself. However, it does kind of make sense.
Many of us both love the city of New Orleans and/or have people caught up in this mess. To a large degree, the entire country has been mourning this. Is it that shocking that many have been going through the anger stage? We need someone to blame and Bush hasn’t exactly behaved perfectly.
I haven’t followed rap since NWA and Easy-E. I guess I do have some Lauryn Hill, but is that really rap?
I have to confess- I listen to NPR and A radio mostly, so I am not up to speed on music.
Gee, I don’t see how this could have happened. Surely it has nothing to do with the Republicans’ effort over the last decade to convince all Christians that Democrats want to outlaw their religion?
I’m sure that all the good Democrats will start defending Bush against these scurrilous attacks just as soon as all the other stuff is cleared up.
You have one brain dead white woman and Congress convenes suddenly on a Sunday night to pass her a law. You get thousands of poor black people in a destroyed American city, and well, Congress takes a few days, the President sort of takes his time on his way back to DC etc etc
so sayeth Al Sharpton. Racist motivations involved or not, he’s got a point there.
If you’re pro Bush, you’d much rather deal with easily deflected accusations of racism than discussions about preparedness, response and competence. You should thank Kanye West for doing you a favor. Without West’s ridiculous charge. how could you dismiss the serious questions as to the care and maintenance of NO’s levees as being ridiculous too?
By the way:
West’s comment about the president was cut from NBC’s West Coast airing, which showed three hours later on tape.
Too bad they didn’t do the same for Justice Sunday. I was serious, by the way — this seems no more misleading or unsupported than the absurd Democrats-hate-Catholics meme. Except when Dennis Hastert tells that lie, they rebroadcast it on the evening news.
Did you see the FOX NEWS report with Shepard Smith and Geraldo Rivera on the Sean Hannity show? That is one of the most unbelievable things I have ever seen. People are LOCKED INTO the Convention Center, not allowed to WALK to nearby Gretna, LA where there is electricity? Why? I think if you asked either one of these right-wing reporters if Bush hates black people, they would say yes!
Before this tragedy, I would not have said that George Bush hates black people. I don’t know that he likes them, but he does have Condi as his best girlfriend and everything. It didn’t seem like that much of an issue for him. But the way that black people are being treated during this tragedy is as if they have some sort of communicable disease and need to be isolated. I just don’t understand why 700 (white) hotel guests were put at the FRONT of the line, before the people waiting at the Superdome, to get buses out of New Orleans. What IS the explanation for that? Okay, maybe it’s money, not race. But why should money matter, either? The hotel guests aren’t paying for their ride, are they?
I mean, I just don’t get it. I am amazed. People LOCKED IN to this filthy business. Not given food and water. Babies dying. Corpses and filth. Not enough soldiers to safeguard the innocent from the opportunists. What is going on? Maybe he doesn’t hate black people. Maybe he just doesn’t give a flying fuck about anything or anyone except Trent Lott’s goddamned porch. I mean, honestly. How can he give a speech talking about Trent Lott’s vacation house when babies are dying as he speak? Jesus Christ, I don’t care where George Bush parks his goddamned ass when American citizens are floating face down in a stew of sewage and water.
And that’s the best I can say about George Bush. That maybe he doesn’t personally hate black people, but that his actions show a supreme indifference to the lives of black people and that he is letting them die by the dozens or hundreds. That is pretty goddamned sad.
Another thing–how can you make an evacuation plan in a city with hundreds of thousands of people and not have buses to take them out? How. Can. This. Be.? What the hell kind of planning is that? And how can you have an evacuation plan for more than 100,000 people which involves putting them all in a place which has room for 25,000 people and is 13 hours away by bus? Couldn’t they rent hotel rooms, or put up tents, or do something that is a little closer than being plonked down in a city 13 hours away?
“A modern metropolis sinking in water and into anarchy — it is a really cruel spectacle for a champion of security like Bush,” France’s left-leaning Liberation newspaper said.
This, I think, gets at the heart of why people are really mad at Bush over this. Not because he made mistakes (but he might have), not because he doesn’t care about black people (but he might not). Because he has won 3 elections now with the theme that the Republicans are the only people who can keep you safe, and then has taken those victories and gone on to govern like a Republican — shredding the safety net, cutting first responders, and giving Louisiana full responsibility for what happens within its borders.
But just like the lefties have been shrieking all along, people who don’t follow politics _don’t really understand that he’s doing this_. They hear his rhetoric about keeping people safe and assume that it is backed up by policy. That’s why the lefties are thrashing this so hard — it is their chance to prove that Bush is not running the country the way that people want him to, even if people like you and me know he’s running it the way he always has. His campaign lies have finally caught up to him, and we will see to it that people remember it for a long time, and next year, they will get the government they want instead of the government that knows what they want and lies about giving it to them.
The Kossacks are on the side of the angels this time, when they are hitting Bush on incompetence and not on conspiracy theories or mistakes. But stuff like Kanye West’s comment does help. When the Republicans are down, a good kick or two will sure help to keep them down. They have been doing the same thing to the Democrats for years now, and I think they might have learned a thing or two from it.
Stupidity Rules: Why don;t you check out the next two paragraphs of the story, it will contain the answer as to why that happened:
Mayor Nagin was responsible for that.
John Cole, I never blamed anyone for it. It’s just lovely.
I read somewhere that the people at the Convention Center weren’t being evacuated cause the Super Dome was top priority. It seems it wasn’t.
The Super Dome had police that stopped people to leave the building, the Hyatt had police that stopped other people to enter the building…
Alexandra, you’re a twit. Your last post hit the nail on the head. The DEMOCRATIC leadership of NO & Louisiana, you know, the FIRST responders in a crisis had an inadequate plan or no plan in place. There are hundreds of buses under water NOW in NO that could have been used to evacuate the 100,000 or so that didn’t leave.
The City of NO, not GWB, was responsible for having adequate supplies in place at the Superdome and other staging areas for evacuees. The City of NO, in concert with the Gov of Louisiana, was responsible for having the necessary security in place. The Gov of Louisiana is the one responsible for calling up the Nat’l Guard. Remember it is called “The Louisiana Nat’l Guard” for a reason.
The Mayor of NO is responsible for ensuring that emergency vehicles, including BOATS and choppers are available for first responders. As him why the ambulances, fire trucks and police cars are NOW under water. Ask him why he abandoned all those people to Katrina instead of mobilizing those hundreds of buses that are now under water.
Check the City of NO web site and see what their Emergency Prepardness Plan states. You’ll find that the Mayor has total responsibility for planning and implementation. You might ask the Govenor why she waited for President Bush to call her and REQUEST that she order a mandatory evacuation of NO. She certainly wasn’t going to do it on her own.
You might ask, since Bush DIDN’T care, why he preemptively declared Mississippi, Fla, Ala and Louisiana a federal disaster area. You might ask the Mayor why Red Cross relief centers ready to house 70,000 basically sat empty while 100,000 of his citizens rode out the storm.
But obviously, you do not want REAL answers, you want to blame Bush and the Feds for disastrous planning and implemention at the local level.
I take it back. You are not a twit. You are an idiot.
She’s also a hysterical hatefilled racist b*tch:
I think Bush could be legitimately asked why there apparently was no review of plans supposed to be put in place to help in emergencies, since apparently no such plan seems to have existed. He created DHS, FEMA falls under DHS, together the two groups surely must have an active — not passive — oversight role to look at such plans on a regular basis nationwide, working to improve on what is in place in case of emergency or to demand improvements on the local and state level.
Or do they?
Seems to me ‘trust but verify’ comes into play. Did DHS/FEMA simply hear someone lower say ‘it’s all good’ and think that was enough, or did they actually want to see results before signing off on it?
One would want to expect a little more — and while blaming Bush solely is foolish, asking him to be accountable for whatever the cabinet-level department he himself created did in this instance is not. Truman, though not perfect, put it best — ‘the buck stops here’ — a sentiment I have never sensed Bush wishes to embrace.
(And FWIW, John, Kanye was just on the cover of Time last week — which maybe you don’t read [I don’t either] but it was kinda hard to miss at newsstands and convenience stores and etc.)
Good job showing us who’s hysterical and hate filled, Darrell.
The thing I loathe most about the Democratic party is their willingness to engage in hatefilled divisive racist language. Using race to smear opponents, dividing Americans. It’s not just some Democrats, but MOST of them who either engage in that type of behavior, or stand silent because it’s coming from their side. Oppose affirmative action? You must be a racist! Or using “code” for oppressing minorities. It’s f*cking despicable
Darrell, so saying someone is a racist or that he’s indifferent about other people makes you a racist?
Personally I don’t think Bush got any humanity, but I’m basing it more on how he mocked Karla Faye Tucker Brown when she pleaded not to be executed.
I seriously doubt that the city of NO, or any other city in America, has the financial wherewithal to be prepared for a crisis of this magnitude. Also, watching TV, you’ll notice that many of the Guard now moving into NO are not from Louisiana but from other states. The fact that Bush pre-emptively declared Louisiana and Mississippi disaster areas is just another piece of evidence damning the federal response as inadequate. Actions speak louder than words.
In 1978 we had a blizzard in Boston. Compared to NO, that storm was an inconvenience. The Army was sent to help dig us out. The Feds are expected to be there in major emergencies – that’s why we pay them.
Also, rayabacus – you’re a wingnut and a moron.
The guy was upset. Cut him a little slack. I thought the stuff about feeling guilty that he didn’t give right away was heartfelt.
He’s dead wrong of course — president Bush has probably done more to help African-Americans than any other president, especially through No Child Left Behind — but people see other people dying on t.v. and get emotional.
Yes, when BASELESS charges of racism are recklessly thrown about because you don’t like someone’s politics, you’re damn right it’s racism. And the left is most guilty of this. It really is despicable
I just want to say that Kanye West is one of my favorite artists and every in interview I’ve ever seen him give he has been smart, very articulate, and honest. Unlike 99% of rappers out there, he doesn’t care at all for the gangsta culture or women- and gay-bashing. He’s an anomaly in the rap world. Some of his views are downright conservative (although he would never say that.) So to see him like this, inarticulate, flustered, and stammering, is really shocking to me. Obviously, he, like a lot of us, has been deeply affected by this disaster. Sometimes with these celebrities you never know if they give a shit, or if they just want some free face time. Not with Kanye though. You know he’s broken up inside. He was even honest enough to admit that he went shopping before he felt the need to donate. I think we should cut him a break here. Despite his “Bush hates black people” comment, Kanye really is a treasure to pop culture in this country.
Darrell, George Bush is accused being rasist against black people by someone. Who is this person being racist against? George Bush?
You could call that person a lot of things that might be true or not, but the person isn’t a racist.
Peter T says, “I seriously doubt that the city of NO, or any other city in America, has the financial wherewithal to be prepared for a crisis of this magnitude.”
Let’s see, the buses are already purchased, the emergency vehicles are already purchased, the Nat’l Guard are already in existence and trained and the City has an Emergency Preparedness Plan….hmmm….that makes me think that your are WRONG, Peter T. All of the assets were available, therefore your argument is void. Local imcompetence by Local Authorities is the major cause of the misery that lingers.
The Guard that is coming in NOW from other states are the Specialists required AFTER initial triage. Hey, idiot, Peter T, you gotta know what you need, before you supply the need. The LA Nat’l Guard is directly under the command of the Governor. She had the authority to call them up BEFORE Katrina hit.
I’m the moron? And you cannot add 1+1. C’mon, I guess I have to call you an idiot too.
Look, there is something very strange about how this country has reacted to this as opposed to how it reacted to 9/11. And it’s probably because the people in NO are black. To put this on George Bush is of course ridiculous. But I understand how black people might be outraged about what’s going on and want to blame someone.
I think president Bush and those around him understand that. And we should understand it too. Kanye West shouldn’t have said he said but he freaked out because he cares about people in New Orleans — and so does president Bush, by the way, regardless of their skin color.
How many babies did Kayne West forget to save? I think we have bigger fish to fry. And let’s not forget that Dear Leader went to Mississippi before N.O. He CHOOSE Mississippi above N.O. I know there are black people in Mississippi too. But, the disaster in Mississippi is not nearly as OBVIOUSE as the one in N.O. Dear Leader is just doing everything he can to draw all sorts of criticism. Maybe that’s the plan. Make your opponents scream foul, then, hand out the aid they can’t. A false choice: screaming foul vs. aid. What’s a “refugee” to do?
rayabacus – You can criticize the impoverished city of New Orleans all you want, but that DOES NOT absolve the federal government. New Orleans may be the most inept city in the country. That doesn’t excuse the shameful response from the federal agency charged with helping Americans, before, during and after disasters. But when you appoint an idiot who got fired from a horse association, you almost have to except incompetence. How you can’t be disgusted with the lack of preparedness and then the response from FEMA and DHS is beyond me. Where I live, in Sacramento, we have two major rivers. We also have underfunded, vulnerable levees. A major storm in early spring could send snow melt from the Sierras with disasterous consequences. And though we are far better off than New Orleans, we would have to rely on federal help to evacuate. We would need federal help to save those who couldn’t leave. If our mayor was brilliant in response to a catastrophic flood, we would still require federal help. If Arnold finally did something right, we would still need federal help. What has happened in New Orleans is a NATIONAL DISASTER. Bush’s leadership has been deplorable. You can hold the mayor of NO to a higher standard than the president if you want, but most Americans don’t. This is a turning point. My Republican father has officially left the party. For the time being, at least, Bush has lost one of his biggest apologists, David Brooks http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/political_wrap/july-dec05/bop_9-2.html. Hell, even Gingrich is pointing out the obvious. But you’re still desperate to keep all blame form George W.
By the way, I think Kanye is right in a way. It’s not about race, though. I just think Bush is too removed from most Americans’ reality to have any empathy for anybody not of his own elitist world. That’s not to say he doesn’t have sympathy. But does he have any appreciation what it means to be poor or black or helpless? No. And it’s hard to care about someone when you can’t wrap your head around what they’re going through.
If you’re willing to to promote hateful stereotypes (“white people, especially Republicans, don’t care! They hate you!”) because you don’t like someone’s politics and you think their white skin color makes them fair game, you’re a f*cking racist. If you’re willing to hold people to different standards because of their skin color, you’re a racist. This is standard operating procedure for most Democrats on the left, not just a few of them. The left promotes racism, they excuse it, and they defend it
Given the desperate situation in N.O. vs Mississippi, doesn’t it make just a teeeny bit more sense to stay away from N.O. for the time being, rather than using resources and attention which would occur from a Presidential visit to N.O.? No, of course not, Dear leader was hiding from the disaster he caused in N.O., every moonbat knows that..
Obviously you know nothing about HOW Federal Disaster Assistance works. There IS a chain that this has to go through. The local authorities (Read City of NO) are the FIRST responders. They are the ones that are responsible for security, establishing communication networks, determining WHAT KIND of assistance is needed and REQUESTING that assistance from the State and Federal Government.
It’s all right here http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf
page 26 is just one place in the 114 pages of how FEMA and fed releif works.
A mayor or city or county manager, as a jurisdiction’s chief executive, is responsible for the public safety and welfare of the people of that jurisdiction. The Local Chief Executive Officer:
■ Is responsible for coordinating local resources to address the full spectrum of actions to prevent, prepare for, respond to, and recover from incidents involving all hazards including terrorism, natural
disasters, accidents, and other contingencies;
■ Dependent upon State and local law, has extraordinary powers to suspend local laws and ordinances, such as to establish a curfew, direct evacuations, and, in coordination with the local health authority, to order a quarantine;
The Mayor did NOTHING early on about looting or preserving order. They didnt even pull the police and EMS vehicles to higher ground. Indeed there is already famous video of the POLICE looting things like DVDs themselves. The Gov didnt declare that the Guard could shoot looters until day *5*. She also did not ask for federalization, which means the FEMA hands were tied by law until she did.
■ Provides leadership and plays a key role in communicating to the public, and in helping people, businesses, and organizations cope with the consequences of any type of domestic incident within the jurisdiction;
His incessant fingerpointing in hopes of casting blame away form the corrupt government of New Orleans (Previous adminstration has how many under indictment for corruption?? Hmm?) and lack of any leadership made things WORSE. He didnt coordinate with the Salvation Army, Catholic Charities, or any of the other disaster relife agencies that could have had food and water there at the dome. He Did NOT coordinate with the state who could have had more guard troops and state police there sooner. He did NOT do like NY did and gather the business leaders and ask them to put their people and best brians to solving this.
Instead he tried to angrily cast emotional darts so people will not look so closely at him and realize HE is to blame for the excess deaths through his incompetence.
No insults: its all there in the facts. Compare and contrast the response in communities hit much harder in Mississippi: thre was LEADERHIP there, and planning – and execution of the plans. Same goes for those Florida communities who handled hurricanes as well. They planned, and executed the plan. The flaw here isn’t in the Fed response – it was right on time, within 5 days. It was that the local response was non-existent and the state response was mixed up mudddled and poorly planed. Indeed Presidnet Bush delcared the disaster EARLY – after he had to talk the Gov of La into it – and begged her to start the evac earlier than they did.
By your reckoning, Bush is responsible for the thousands of, mostly poor, people who the Mayor did not evacuate and transport to the Red Cross emergency shelters ready to house approx 70,000 people. Shelters that mostly sat empty. Now you’ll excuse me if I somehow find your logic….uh, illogical.
I’m not going to try to sugarcoat any of this. Logic dictates the following:
1. The person responsible for preparing the City for this natural disaster and implementing Emergency Preparedness is the Mayor of New Orleans.
2. The Mayor showed NOT leadership and ingenuity in this crisis, but incompetence and disregard for the lives of the, mostly poor, in the inner city.
3. Logical conclusion: The Mayors actions (inactions?), along with those of the Governor, are close to criminal neglect.
If you want to continue to beat the “Bush’s fault” drums, then you also are an idiot.
Kanye west is a moron. This is a guy who admitted that the only politicians he even knew of were President Bush and John Kerry. He claimed he was going to vote for somebody he knew nothing about but that his assistant lost his absentee ballot. West went on to say that he was more pissed about the assistant losing his Ferragamo shoes.
Hint to Katrina victims, Southern Politicians and assorted political observers: if you wanna get Bush on your side, don’t call him a racist. The Black Panther attitude spewing from the pampered Grammy-winning mouth will not win him any new fans.
So AFTER George Soros and TH Kerry finish writing checks for the Katrina victims, will Jesse Jackson THEN come out and repudiate K.W.’s remarks?
Using race to gain votes.
Darrell, when did Alexandra say anything about a/ republicans, /b white people or /c white republicans? And you call her a racist. First you can only be racist against one of the three choices. Guess which. Secondly she didn’t even call George Bush a racist.
The only one who has called anyone a racist in this thread is you.
She directly accused Bush of “letting” black people die. F*cking disgusting. That you defend her shows what a lowlife you are
Darrell, when did I defend her? I’m just pointing out your stupidity.
Accusing Bush of letting black people die doesn’t make her a racist. It can depending if you believe it or not make her a lot of things, but neither of those is a racist.
Try to understand.
Innocent childs play long ago compared to the sheer volume of racial hatred spewed by leftist Democrats. Anything Repubs done which can remotely compare to the NAACP (wholly owned subsidiary of the Dem party)not so long ago blaming Bush for the dragging-behind-the car death of James Byrd?? F*cking scumbags.
NAACP head Kweisi Mfume accused Bush of treating blacks like prostitutes and of wanting to “take blacks back to the days of Jim Crow.”
Dems have been pulling this sh*t for decades. Andrew Young said about Ronald Reagan: “like a code word to me that it’s going to be all right to kill niggers when he’s President.”
Coretta Scott King: “I am scared that if Ronald Reagan gets into office, we are going to see more of the Ku Klux Klan and a resurgence of the Nazi Party.”
Despicable? yes, but it’s in the DNA of leftists Democrats. It’s who they are. It’s how they think. They’re hateful racists, nothing more
Hey, thanks, Stupidity Rules! Darrell certainly seems to have his Darth Maul Underoos in a bunch over things I didn’t even say.
My point about George Bush is not that he does or does not hate blacks. Hurricane Katrina didn’t hate blacks, but it harmed them–as well as whites, Asians, and all kinds of other people– with sublime indifference. The toll was certainly worse on the poor, most of whom are black, than it was on the white because of what the government did. The government did not provide for buses or shelters for the poor in this crisis. They were the ones stuck in New Orleans. Then, the man who is in charge of the country, who is empowered to activate the National Guard and focus vast amounts of energy and attention on this crisis, acted with absolutely jaw-dropping slowness and disinterest. It doesn’t really matter if he hates blacks. The effect is that he just doesn’t seem to give a damn if they live or die. I make no particular assumptions about what he has in his heart–but his sublime indifference has literally stilled the “beating heart” as the anti-choice crowd likes to say, of dozens, perhaps hundreds or even thousands of his fellow citizens.
Oh of course not, Bush was merely “letting” black people die. Nothing racist about that, right? And I must have missed your posts criticizing the black city and state officials who have screwed up so badly.
I guess you are too ignorant to know that the National Guard in Louisiana was at the command of the governor
You are STILL an idiot. Read my post. If you think that those “poor” people were discriminated against, because they were poor and unable to get out of the City, I agree with you.
The difference I have with you is I name the person responsible for the discrimination; The Mayor of New Orleans. I, however, do not believe that he discriminated against them because they were black. I don’t know WHY he left them there – I don’t know WHY he did not provide enough provisions for them at the Superdome – I don’t know WHY he failed to provide adequate security to safeguard those people. Although I don’t know why – I am not prepared to call him a racist.
I am prepared to call him incompetent.
You have a brain the size of a pea.
The thing I loathe most about the ___________ is their willingness to engage in hatefilled divisive racist language. Using race to smear opponents, dividing Americans. It’s not just some ________, but MOST of them who either engage in that type of behavior, or stand silent because it’s coming from their side. Oppose affirmative action? You must be a racist! Or using “code” for oppressing minorities. It’s f*cking despicable.
If you take away the reference to Democratic Party, this become a very telling statment.
Darrel, you are using code words that politically correct rascists use.
Methink you doth protest too much.
Ok, how about this, since we are in no rush to judgement. You don’t know the chain all that well. You don’t know specifically what the Mayor did and should have done. There are reports that N.O. had HUGE communications problems. The police were cut off from each other. In any case, Nagin says that he was told that so many people and supplies were on their way, but, had not arrived. Maybe, Dear Leader was late? There are reports of FEMA getting in the way, delaying offers to provide help.
Nagin said that the govenor would not delegate to him the authority to command the military. Isn’t the military a BIG component of the relief and rescue?
cd6 has it completely right.
Oh Oh me me, I know …
Don’t impeach him.
is how often they fail to prevail against Dear Leader.
John Cole, Sorry, but you can be forgiven for not being a follower of rap. But, Kanye West has been all over the press for weeks.
He was on the cover of Time Magazine last week actually.
Truly, you should have simply done a Google, and you would know who Kanye is… regardless of whether one agrees or disagrees with his statements…
You really do a disservice with the title of this blog…
You presume that since YOU don’t know who he is… he is no one.
You really do jump the shark here.
It’s your blindspot. And, your mistake.
“There are reports that N.O. had HUGE communications problems. The police were cut off from each other. In any case, Nagin says that he was told that so many people and supplies were on their way, but, had not arrived.”
But I do know what he DID NOT do. He did not evacuate those people that had no transportation. He did not have adequate supplies on hand for the people he TOLD to go to the superdome. He did not secure emergency vehicles and buses out of the flood zone. He did not establish a back up communications plan. In short, as the CEO on site, he did not do all of the things he was supposed to do to protect the lives of his citizens.
“Nagin said that the govenor would not delegate to him the authority to command the military. Isn’t the military a BIG component of the relief and rescue?”
And this is Bush’s fault, how? It seems you are making my point – that the FIRST RESPONDERS, local and state, were ill equipped, ill prepared and mismanaged. All of this due to the INCOMPETENCE of the Mayor and Governor.
Then why do you dump all the blame on him? Don’t you see all the resources Dear Leader is finally providing? Do you actually expect a city to provide all that?
Because John Cole not being familiar with Kayne West is sooo much more important then the hate filled racist stereotypes being promoted by Mr. West.
Does anyone know how far a major of a city are allowed to evacute people legally without permission? Is he/she allowed to evactute them outside of the city limit? How far can a governor evacute them? I would guess he/she is allowed to move them to anywhere in the state, but if they were evacuated outside of the state? Just curious.
Have you read John’s new comments policy?
It seems that most people expect Dear Leader to handle the disaster preparation and mitigation and think that he has failed. If it not the case that he is supposed to handle the disaster preparation and mitigation, then, why did he change that? I never heard a Mayor get all this blame.
The governor had called for a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans. Permission had not just been granted, but ordered
I’m sick and fucking tired of people deflecting responsibility from the federal government. Take a short cyber trip to the Department of Homeland Security website. Look down the page at who has PRIMARY responsibility for any natural disaster in the US. It ain’t local or state government. It is – yep – the Department of Homeland Security, that goliath lump of bureaucrats we’ve been throwing gobs and gobs of money at for four years.
And the situation in New Orleans wouldn’t have been ignored for so long had it happened in a white, Republican-voting city. It just wouldn’t. Look at response times in Florida – they’ve never been this bad.
And all of the “they couldn’t have known it was going to be this bad” bullshit – they had a multi-million dollar training exercise for federal agencies in July of LAST YEAR called “Hurricane Pam” for just this sort of storm. So that’s bull.
And why might that be Tulie? Could it be that unlike anywhere in Florida, NOLA is BELOW SEA LEVEL where water cannot drain off? Bridge blown away and roads underwater have something to do with it? Nahh, of course not. It’s because Bush told FEMA “don’t bother to hurry fellas, N.O. votes Democrat and it’s full of black people”
jobiuspublius is also an idiot. He/she apparantly cannot read, or cannot comprehend, or heavens forbid, he/she just conveniently ignores the facts that disagree with his/her ideological bent.
If you read the posts, pubicus, you will note that the RESPONSIBILITY and consequently the AUTHORITY, in ADVANCE of the disaster belongs to the local authorities (Hizzoner the Mayor). I guess you misseed the point where HE alone is responsible for Emergency Preparedness in HIS city. He MAY call upon the Governor for assistance, as in activating the LANG (he requests-she approves or disapproves said request), the Gov MAY ask for assistance from the Feds and/or other states (NG Reciprocity).
We are speaking directly about events PRIOR to Katrina landing. The Feds have done a TREMENDOUS job of getting personnel and materials into devastated areas within a period of 72 hrs. You might check to see exactly WHEN dear Gov requested assistance from other State NG’s. Some (Michigan & CA) are stating they did not receive a request from the Gov until Thursday, although they were mobilized and ready on Sunday.
I call him President Bush, does not have the authority to call in the National Guard unless Federal Martial Law is declared. I say again, idiot pubicus, that you either fail to read, fail to comprehend or are being just dishonest.
The incompetence belongs at the Mayor’s feet. He is the one that failed the people of his city.
Look, Darrell, I’ve been through hurricanes. I’ve been in Houston when it was under 8 feet of water. There were National Guardsmen there *before* the storm hit. Lots of people in Houston can’t afford to evacuate either – I don’t recall Whitmeyer or White ever having been raked over the coals for it.
You can call me a stupid jackass all you want, Darrell. I’ve been in a (Republican) city while disaster relief was under way three times. It never took five days. Not once. White folks were never locked in a convention center overnight.
But you’re right, there is a chance that race has nothing whatsoever to do with the response. In which case it is just criminal incompetence. Pardon me if that doesn’t make me feel any fucking better.
Darrell, you complain about a DL comment, maybe you should limit your use of racist to I don’t know, real racists? Like people who hate all black people or all white people?
Cause now you’re are up to calling two persons racists without showing any evidence that they really are racists. They might be stupid, but they aren’t racist.
Tulie also is an idiot. My, my, there are a whole herd of idiots out today. Hey, Tulie, take a tour here and see what you can see about FIRST RESPONDERS;
Seems you failed to read the part where the Mayor is the CEO responsible for FIRST RESPONDERS. Your point about the Florida response proves my point exactly. LOCAL FIRST RESPONDERS in Fla had a plan, had their equipment out of harms way and got in quick, surveyed the damage, knew exactly what help was needed and procured that assistance. They did ALL of the things that the Mayor of NO and the Gov of LA did NOT. They had a plan, they had trained people executing that plan and they had competent people managing the trained people.
Now go to the City of NO web site and read about the Emergency Preparedness Plan, it plainly spells out that the Mayor has total authority and responsibility. Hell, he left his citizens to fend on their own when he had in excess of 500 buses at his disposal to get them out.
I covered problems with bus evacuations in another thread yesterday. (Gas shortages, where do you round people up, how do you decide who gets to go, do you take first responders out of the city to drive them or force bus drivers to leave their families, traffic, who pays for hotels, etc). I’ve never heard of a city using bus evacuations before a storm – if you’ve got a link, please show me.
First responders, aka polica and fire departments did pretty much everything they could. Most cities only have one, two, or three helicopters for the first responders. Fire trucks were out as long as they could be, and still are in drier areas. Police ran themselves ragged for 72 hours, while their own families were who-knows-where. What more would you have them do?
As I post here from Houston having lived here through Alicia and Allison, I can tell you there is no f*cking comparison between hurricanes in Houston, a city which is inland and above sea level, and New Orleans, which is on the coast and below sea level.. What about below sea level don’t you understand? Below sea level = WATER DOES NOT DRAIN. The levee broke, flooding the city turning it into a deathtrap. Did you see the pictures of all the bridges that were blown out and the road underwater? Has I-10 or I-45 here ever remained under more than 5 feet of water for more than a day?? You ignore these realities as if they don’t even matter. Nothing in Houston’s history of hurricanes comes remotely close to what happened in N.O. and your ridiculous comparison reinforces how stupid you truly are. And hateful too, injecting race into it
Darrell, I know they are not the same circumstances. I was pointing out vast differences in response times. Five days is utterly unexcusable in the country in which I thought I grew up in. Whatever the “justification”. As has been typical under compassionate conservatism, the response of the American people is overwhelming and wonderful. Response of agencies with actual mandates to respond…rather flat.
Nor do I think pointing out potential race issues is hateful. I think pretending everyone is color-blind is hateful. Denying that this country has race issues is hateful. Saying white people “find” food and black people “loot” is hateful. And I’ll talk about it if I see it. That is not racism.
I don’t expect us to agree, we never have before. But I would appreciate it if you would not call me racist when you know nothing about me and I have said nothing racist, and to refrain from calling me a stupid jackass again. Thanks.
Tulie speaks for the Mayor, “Wahhhh, we couldn’t do it.” So it is Bush’s fault. Tulie, you idiot, it is called
Don’t believe I ever said it was Bush’s fault.
I won’t limit myself to that narrow definition because in addition, anyone else willing to promote hateful stereotypes such as “white people don’t care to rescue you because they hate or don’t care about black people”… making such smears only because they think the white skin color of those being smeared makes them fair game. That also is racism
OOPS! WRONG BUTTON, IT WAS MY FAULT!! As i was saying before I burped, Tulie, you idiot, it is called HAVING A PLAN, having a plan entails having volunteers, what we used to call the Civil Defense, ready to go to the buses, with their families and start hauling people to safety. It means having the fuel (called foresight and/or PLANNING) for such a situation, it’s means having a back up communication system, be it morse code if necessary or smoke signals or something, it means BEING PREPARED, specially if you are the Mayor of a City that sits on a coast, where parts of the city is 20 feet below sea level, and are in Hurrican Alley.
It means more than just yelling at your citizens to “GET OUT”. 500 plus BUSES!!!!! They are now ALL inoperable. It is called INCOMPETENCE any way you cut it. It borders on criminally negligent. I can’t shout it any louder. THE MAYOR IS THE PERSON THAT WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR GETTING HIS PEOPLE OUT OF HARM’S WAY. HE HAD THE ASSETS TO DO IT. HE DIDN’T DO IT. HE IS INCOMPETENT.
Do you think hurling BASELESS charge of racism is hateful? Because that is exactly what you, and so many others on your side are doing now have done so often before. You do it because Bush is white and you would never do the same to a black person under the same circumstances. You are in fact subjecting others to your racist double standards.
You should know. You have been calling lots of people in here racists based on the
You should know. You have been calling lots of people in here racists based on their dislike of Bush.
I think Rayabacus is right. The mayor had a big responsiblity in this and did not do the things he could have. It seems he was, pardon the pun, over his head on this one. I heard he was a new mayor. Who’s to say just because you’re elected mayor, you’re an expert on flood evacuation? There shoud be, and I hope there is, a continung post of someone responsible for this kind of activity. Does anyone know if there was a N.O. Hurricane Tsar?
What I still don’t understand is why the trucks of water and food to certain gathering spots for refugees in the city, such as certain highways, took so long to get there. Some of those roads were passable within a day or so of the storm. Was that a state thing or a federal thing?
A blatent lie, typical of you and your side. Show me ONE statement in which I accused another of racism simply because they ‘disliked’ Bush.
The only hwy in as far as I know was I-10. Local authorities are solely responsible for FIRST RESPONDERS. I would imagine that those responding would be involved in life saving issues first (search and rescue). A well organized plan, in my opinion, would be to have on standby water, at the least, to be distributed to areas where rescued people/evacuees are being staged.
My charge that the Mayor was derelict in his duties comes from these facts:
1. The Mayor (according to the City of NO web site and the homeland security website) is the Executive in charge of planning, evacuation, first response, etc.
2. The Mayor neglected the safety of his citizens by not having a plan to evacuate the poorest of the parishes. Although it was known that ONLY one out of six people living there had personal transportation, he did NOT provide transportation although issuing a mandatory evacuation order.
3. Providing shelter in the Superdome for a liminted number of evacuees, most physically impaired, was an excellent idea. However, if you are going to virtually imprison people, you have a duty to provide for their basic needs. (Water, food, sanitary facilities) He DID NOT do this.
4. By not moving emergency vehicles and mass transit vehicles to high ground ( a couple of miles), those vehicles are now lost for the relief efforts and buses have had to be brought in from other towns and states. Had those 500+ buses been available, with pre-assigned volunteer drivers, the Superdome and Convention Center would have been evacuated immediately after the storm and buses could have been waiting at those two loci with water and food for those survivors looking for transportation.
Remember, many people were trying to get to the Superdome because they were told before the storm that it would be a place of refuge. Even after the bus evacuations bagan, the population at the Superdome swelled to numbers larger than before the evacuations began. Wouldn’t it have been really nice if people FINALLY reaching their safe haven could have been given water and food and almost immediate transport to a refuge facility?
I, for one, am anxiously awaiting an explanation from the Mayor and Govrnor. I call it incompetence on both their parts.
Darrell, so why did you call Alexandra a racist?
Darrel’s all over the place. It’s just pathetic. It’s laughable actually. Twisting in the wind by his own twisted hateful logic.
I love it when Darrel accusses someone of hate with hateful words of his own.
I already explained why.. repeatedly. She accused Bush of “letting” black people die.
Looks like Kanye West has a history of this kind of crap
Whitey bringin’ crack to da hood..
Well rayabacus, that sounds pretty bad on his part. My question is, how do we know the Mayor knows how to do this stuff? After all to become mayor, you probably need some decent people skills, not emergency management skills. Was he the ONLY one involved in this? Doesn’t he have someone to advise him? If not, why not?
And once all his mistakes were made, and after the flood, why couldn’t busses and trucks of food come in from somewhere else in the state to the convention center and the highway overpasses and the convention centers? I know the roads were flooded, but a couple days later I believe the areas around those places were still accessible by busses, even if their underbellies got a little wet. Who was responsible for that?
Well, scs apparantly we have evidence that he does NOT know how to do his stuff or he just shrugged off doing his stuff.
I think to become Mayor all you need is one more vote than your opponent. I am assuming that there were a whole plethora of people involved in the Emergency Preparedness Planning for NOLA. Whether they were competent or just political appointees I cannot testify to. You can check for yourself here:
As for your second set of questions I can only answer for the buses-they were under water. Why didn’t the local and state officials have supplies ready to roll, I don’t know…um, incompetence? Hell, why didn’t the Gov activate the LANG sooner and have it in place? Why did she wait until as late as Thursday to ask for specialized NG from some of the other states. Mich NG stated they were ready with 500 MP’S as early as last Saturday, but only got the request from the Gov on Thursday.
The City and State have SOLE responsibility for First Responders. First Responders by their definition are the first on the scene, to determine WHAT KIND OF HELP, in what quantity is needed. They are there to handle the initial life saving, rescue and to analyze the situation on the ground. The City reports this info to the Gov, who then assigns assistance and REQUESTS assistance from the Feds or other States if needed.
This from Captains Quarters, Ed says it with less passion than I:
“After the levees broke on Tuesday, the situation broke down rapidly, a drearily predictable result. The two main refugee centers, the official one at the Superdome and the ad-hoc site at the Convention Center, should have been evacuated at that point. However, even two days after landfall, New Orleans had not moved its buses to high ground to keep them ready for use in case the levees broke. Lousiana’s governor had not called out her National Guard units, only 25% of which have deployed to Iraq. With I-10 from the east completely unusable for vehicular traffic and the New Orleans PD completely absorbed by search-and-rescue functions, looting ran wild and order completely broke down. Nagin only ordered the PD to take on looting as a high priority on Thursday.
What did George Bush do? He had a wide area of devastation to manage. Mississippi has also sustained catastrophic damage, with entire towns destroyed, flooded, and unable to fend for themselves. He does not have the authority to call out anyone’s National Guard until he federalizes the units, a move usually reserved for use when governors prove recalcitrant in mobilization. Yet within three days of the levee burst and the drowning of New Orleans, Bush had 40,000 troops entering the city to take over the management from Nagin and Blanco, delivering the aid that had waited for lines of communication to get established and the order that the NOPD and Louisiana could not maintain.
We work within a federal system, where cities and states control the allocation of resources used within their borders. We do this because we recognize that, for the most part, federalism works. Local decisions about resource allocation usually create better results than top-down bureaucratic management. The main requirement for that to work is local leadership.
The main failure in New Orleans came when the local and state governments refused to recognize that the storm had a high chance to cause catastrophic damage and use its assets to get the poor and infirm out of its way. They had plenty of resources (in vehicles) with which to do that, but left them right where the floods would destroy them. All the rest of the damage would have been mere property destruction, difficult to rebuild but nonetheless easier to accept than the unbelievable hardship we’ve seen this week.”
It is a tragedy. It is a tragedy because there was a failure of leadership. This does, unfortunately, emphasize that elections do have consequences. As I said before, one does not need to be a fine executive to be elected Mayor – one just needs one more vote than one’s opponent.
Rayabacus, don’t forget, you can be elected as President with FEWER votes than your opponent.
And you’re right elections sure do have concequences.
You’re right on both points. Although I acknowledge that your second point had a different meaning than mine.
But it is the same for both of us, and everyone else. Elections do have consequences.
Ok rayabacus, I agree with you. The Mayor f__ked up. Yes, he was responsible fro the first response and he didn’t do it right. But my question is, what then? Where was the response after the mayor messed up? I guess you are saying that the state government did not request the Fed help until too late. Couldn’t then the Feds have insisted to the Lousianna Governor to accept help? If not, why not? I’m sure she wouldn have broken down and accepted it.
As to busses rolling in with supplies, you said the busses were under water. I’m talking about busses elsewhere in the state. School busses from Baton Rouge perhaps. Maybe not in the first two days, but surely after that. Just get a food drive going in Baton Rouge, and Houston, and Memphis, and drive them down. Come down with food and leave with passengers. Might not have been a lot but it would have helped some.
Anyway, I still think there is blame to go around.
First responders? Are them the folks Bob the Rebuilder in Chief keeps unfunding and mandating?
rayabacus, you’re making shit up. Half N.O.’s police evacuated themselves. You know nothing about the cities resources. Foriegn and other state aid was bottled up by FEMA.
BTW, checkout the signatories in that link rayabacus is so fond of. Tell me if you see a govenor’s or mayor’s signature on it.
Now do we get it?
So, Darrell, you say
“Oh of course not, Bush was merely “letting” black people die. Nothing racist about that, right?”
and I say ohmylike, god, we actually agree about something. Letting black people die is racist. I’m amazed. We are so on the same freaking page.
But–Bush IS letting people die. There are thousands still in the convention center. He’s just now getting around to using his guitar-strummin’ hand to authorize more troops to help these people. So let me see if I can activate that tiny hamster wheel in your brain by asking the following: If letting black people die is racist, and George Bush is letting them die, are you trying to tell me–that George Bush may be a bit of a racist???