Previously unreported speculation:
A loose barge may have caused a large breach in the east side of the Industrial Canal floodwall that accelerated Hurricane Katrina’s rising floodwaters in the Lower Ninth Ward and St. Bernard Parish, Army Corps of Engineers project manager Al Naomi said Monday.
Naomi said the barge was found on the land side of the floodwall, leading corps officials to believe it could have crashed through the wall and sent a huge amount of water – which was already pouring over the top of the wall – into the neighborhoods immediately downriver.
“We have some pictures that show this very large barge inside the protected area. It had to go through the breach,” Naomi said. “The opening is a little bit wider than the barge itself. One would think it’s the barge that did it.”
If it did strike the floodwall, Naomi said, the barge would have “precipitated a tremendous collapse” that would have quickly flooded the Lower Ninth Ward and then St. Bernard Parish. The breach is “ultimately in my opinion what got (St. Bernard) Parish flooded,” Naomi said.
There are two large breaks in the floodwall, said Ivor Van Heerden, deputy director of the Louisiana State University Hurricane Center, who did an aerial survey of flood damage Sunday. The larger of the two, possibly caused by the barge, is about 800 feet long. The second is 500 feet.
A possibility, I guess. That was one of the first reported possibilities:
Corps of Engineers officials said their analysis indicated that a limited amount of water washed over the top of the levee in waves, scouring and weakening the foundation on the levee’s dry side.
Suhayda said that’s possible. But another possibility is that, during the half-day floodwaters built up in Lake Pontchartrain and the canal, water may have percolated through the earthen part of the berm, undermining it.
That effect, combined with the cumulative pressure over time, may have caused a breakthrough.
“There’s no question that those kind of conditions might have just reached the limit of what that particular levee could handle,” said James “Bob” Bailey, a flood and wind hazard risk expert with ABS consulting in Houston.
It’s also possible the levee was older and had degraded as all earthen and concrete structures do, he said.
A final possibility is that an unknown, massive chunk of debris struck the levee at some point during the night, causing a breach.
I still find it difficult to believe that there was no plan in place to immediately deal with a breach/failure, other than ‘giant sandbags.’
Sandbags, btw, that were not even filled.
Don Surber
But CAGW said studies on Cat 5 hurricanes were “pork”
Pork pork pork pork
And of course editorial writers being the mindless hacks they are globbed right onto this
Pork pork pork
(I still love the highways bill)
Don Surber
Oh and John, check this out: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4796
Charlie (Colorado)
Uh, you have any ideas on how to close a 300 foot hole in a levee in the middle of a hurricane? I sure don’t.
Tim F
God bless Barbara Bush:
Rome Again
Maybe I’m missing something here. With a category 4/5 storm heading towards an area close to (or as originally predicted, right into) an area with levees that can only withstand a category 3 storm, the levees were bound to fail. It matters not if the failure was caused by debris hitting the structure, water eroding the structure or whatnot. The fact that NO sits on the Gulf, in a area known for high capability of seeing hurricanes, it only makes sense to build levees to withstand a category 5 storm. If they can’t do that, then why not set up a series of levees, a breakwater of levees, say 3 or 4 deep, where the innermost protection has more chance of NOT being penetrated.
I would like to add that I live on the Gulf as well, in S.W. FLA; in an area that is about five feet above sea level, and we have no levees. If a storm hits here, we have no protection… but we have plenty of millionaires and billionaires here, and if we get one, I’m sure you’ll see a huge contrast of faster federal response as a direct result of the money our residents control (not to mention the fact that our Gov is also the President’s brother).
capelza
Not trying to start anything here, but in perusing the web ihave come across this on a few sites…the main breach, on the 17th St. Canal was a concrete levee built in the last two years.
Has anyone else come across this? If it is true, what does it mean? Honestly I am just trying to find out.
Darrell
No doubt a predictable result of Bush budget cuts. [/moonbat]
Darrell
A good percentage of them do appear to have been homeless and destitute. Not only have they been getting 3 squares a day plus spending money, but the Houston Chronicle had a story yesterday on how already a couple hundred of them (many more no doubt as time passes), are getting nice FREE apartments with all furnishings paid for by donations from local businesses. You should have seen the apartment complex in the news photo.. they look like really nice digs, new construction with nicely designed architecture and landscaping.. much better than sleeping by the dumpster outside Harrah’s, that’s for sure
Rome Again
Upon writing my last post, I decided to check something out. Being as I live in SW Florida (about 40 miles south of where Hurricane Charley hit); I did a search on FEMA response to last year’s hurricanes. While I cannot find a lot of information about pre-planning on Charley, just weeks after Charley, I can find lots of information on pre-planning on Frances. [note: I worked for FEMA during this time, but only in a clerical capacity and was not aware of the direct inner workings of what FEMA was doing other than as it directly affected my responsibilities.]
It seems that after Charley made such a huge impact on Punta Gorda during the 2004 Hurricane season, FEMA learned a few lessons and was prepared with much pre-planning of relief for Frances.
From the Homeland Security website, I find the following regarding this pre-planning:
{note: asterisks substituted for list bullets)
Now, this assessment of what FEMA was pre-planning for Frances gives us the idea that they knew how to pre-plan a year ago. Did they learn the lessons and then forget them a year later? Did having the Governor of Florida being a Bush have any impact on the readiness of this federal agency? It seems that either one of these is true, or the other is… unless I’m missing something.
It seems to me that if FEMA could be so prepared a year ago for Frances, the least they could have done is advise Louisiana’s Governor, and NO’s Mayor of the importance of having at least these same contingency plans.
Now, I’m not one who thinks this tragedy happened because of race, but I do believe it happened as a direct result of class structure. SW Florida is full of rich retirees, did that make a difference? I’m not saying yes, but it does leave one to speculate.
John Cole
That may be the most offensive god damn thing I have read yet.
I am with you on the failure of the local and state government, something many on the left refuse to acknowledge or downplay, but you are out of line here.
Darrell
How so?
Vlad
“How so?”
By implying that poor people are lucky to have lost all their worldly posessions, lucky to have had friends and relatives killed by the storm, lucky to have spent a week in third-world conditions, and lucky to have been re-located to another state, just because it got them an apartment.
That kind of luck, I could do without.
Darrell
They did:
More here. Oops, so much for your nutty “Bush only cares about the rich” conspiracy theory
Stormy70
Darrell, most of those people are working class to lower middle class people with family. Some are already working, and trying to find permanent housing. They are not all poor. However, their are alot of poorer people who will have a better life in Texas, than they did in LA. Houston is the number one city in the nation for black entrepreneurialship, beating out Atlanta. Fact is, most will not want to go back to New Orleans.
Shygetz
Yeah, and you know those homeless freeloaders are just lining up to sign book deals about this. Hell, they’re going to end up wealthy from it. So, if you really want to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina, then eliminate the federal estate tax.
(/darrell)
Stormy70
their, there. Whatever!
John, I had seen that speculation about a grain barge a few days ago, but I could never relocate it.
Darrell
Re-read what I posted. Tim F was ridiculing Barbara Bush’s comments. I pointed out that for at least some of them, they will end up better off than they were in New Orleans (regular meals, housing, medical treatment, etc), so BB’s comments were not so “obviously” ridiculous after all
Rome Again
Darrell said:
You should have seen the apartment complex in the news photo.. they look like really nice digs, new construction with nicely designed architecture and landscaping.. much better than sleeping by the dumpster outside Harrah’s, that’s for sure
Hmmm, and how does that make you feel Darrell? Are you happy that these storm victims have received some comfort? Or does it piss you off royally that they’re getting apartments to live in? I’m just wondering.
Darrell
Show me where I said or implied otherwise
Exactly my point, so again I ask, so how was I “out of line”?
doinkman
John,
How do you propose to fix a 800′ long gap in a levee?
Once a levee fails, it’s just about impossible to fix. Think about it….millions of gallons rushing through and undermining the entire structure on both sides and the bottom. When you drop something in to block a portion that just makes water rush even faster through the remaining holes and scour the levee even faster. I’m only partially talking out my ass, I’m an environmental engineer and I have no idea how you would fix the levee.
capelza –
I’ve heard that too. What it means is we can point fingers and blame anybody and everybody but the bottom line is we can’ out-engineer nature.
Darrell
Pound on those strawmen Rome, that’s all you’ve got
Rome Again
Well, obviously whatever they did during a “fictional cat 3” didn’t happen during a real cat 4. Where was FEMA during the build-up of this storm?
Rome Again
Darrell
Positioning supplies and personnel while working with Louisiana state and local officials. Are you really that ignorant?
docG
Darrell says:
“Oh, yessah, Mista Darrell. We’s sho lucky that you be’s taking such good care of us darkies. We’s sho nuff ‘fraid we’s goin to hav to gives up our new digs. Praise Jesus, dat storm kill Grandmama, she jus ol and in de way, nohow.”
Fuck you, you stupid, racist bastard. Do everyone a favor and donate your computer to the Red Cross.
Doug
The story about a barge busting open the levee reminds me of a law school tort law case study we had. I can’t remember the outcome or the name of the case, but it started with an individual who didn’t properly tie down his boat. It came untied during a storm, drifted down the river, busted a bridge, and prevented a pregnant woman from getting to the hospital.
Think of the liability if a barge did break the levee because it wasn’t properly secured.
Darrell
Fuck yourself you racist sack of shit.
Rome Again
Darrell, your link didn’t send me to the page you indicated it would. I find nothing about “Hurricane Pam” on that page.
capelza
I was going to stay out of the Darrell stuff but this has to be the second most assinine thing you ever have said
Yeah, hundreds of thousands of them “appear” that way as we speak…
The MOST assinine thing is the rest of that post.
Darrell
Rome you moron, where did I ever say that my link would direct you to Hurricane Pam? Can you read?
Darrell
As in homeless and destitute before Katrina even struck.
TexasMike
Darrell:
One week ago, as New Orleans was filling with water, your President was strumming the guitar, cutting cake with John McCain and playing golf.
Absolutely and completely indefensible.
And before you start making apologies for this pathetic administration, ask yourself if you would be so forgiving if John Kerry were president.
Shygetz
No strawmen Darrell, the real deal.
Yeah, and you appear to be an asshole. Do you have any evidence as to how many of them actually were “sleeping by the dumpster outside Harrah’s?” Does it live up to the “so many of these people” standard that Babs gave in her “Let them eat cake” quote?
Not only have they been getting 3 squares a day plus spending money, but the Houston Chronicle had a story yesterday on how already a couple hundred of them (many more no doubt as time passes), are getting nice FREE apartments with all furnishings paid for by donations from local businesses. You should have seen the apartment complex in the news photo.. they look like really nice digs, new construction with nicely designed architecture and landscaping
capelza
How the hell would you, in your infinite wisdom be able to tell which were previously “homeless”? Is it the ill-fitting clothes (all the people who had homes they had to bail out of on the spot, bothered to pack their Sunday best, yeah, that’s it!) or the look of…oh never mind.
Darrell
Many of the homeless, the chronically poor, and elderly (elderly which may fit into the the ‘homeless’ or ‘chronically poor’ categories) many with no family to speak of, are being handed a better life in Texas.
BinkyBoy
Why do you guys try to convince Darrell that he’s an asshole? Even though a majority of the people that comment here agree, well, that doesn’t mean its true! Come on, he could be a great guy! If only it wasn’t for his ignorance and stupidity, I’m sure he could even be a good commenter.
Darrell
Capelza, is there even a SHRED of honest doubt that a good number of these people, people who lacked the resources to leave town, are mentally ill, substance users, homeless (before the storm) or near homeless? Yes, there was a horrific tragedy, people lost family. Doesn’t change the fact that for many of them, they will have a better life given to them in Texas then they had in LA. They were not all middle class families
TallDave
I think we all know why the levee failed: because Bush doesn’t care about black people.
Plus, he wanted an excuse to shoot them, and to force them to become cannibals.
Rome Again
Darrell said: “Positioning supplies and personnel while working with Louisiana state and local officials. Are you really that ignorant?”
Darrell, you obviously didn’t read the list I supplied from the Homeland Security site. Most importantly the following, which I don’t believe happened during Katrina:
– Homeland Security officials are fully coordinating preparations and holding daily video conference calls with our federal partners, governors, and other state and local officials in possible affected states.
Wasn’t it you who insisted that STATE and LOCAL authorities were responsible and FEMA shouldn’t be expected to be involved in the initial hours after the storm hit?
– FEMA’s Hurricane Liaison Team is activated at the National Hurricane Center in Miami, Florida, to assist with advisories, information coordination and emergency evacuation activities.
Wasn’t it you who stated that the STATE and LOCAL authorities (and not FEMA) were responsible for evacuation activities?
– FEMA has deployed an Advanced Emergency Response Team to the Florida and Georgia State Emergency Operation Centers to facilitate state requests for assistance. Rapid Needs Assessment Teams have also been deployed to these states to provide support as necessary.
Where exactly were these teams during Katrina?
– Preparations are being made for Disaster Field Offices and Disaster Recovery Centers to be established in the hardest hit areas within 72 hours after a federal declaration. This will allow impacted residents to receive disaster assistance as soon as possible
Was it not you who argued recently on another thread that the information you found stated FEMA and/or DHS would have 96 hours to respond? Why this difference in time frame?
– The Department’s Information Analysis and Infrastructure Protection unit is assessing the vulnerabilities and potential impact to critical infrastructure located in the storm’s projected path. Based upon these assessments, Homeland Security will be prepared to work with private sector partners and state and local government officials during the recovery phase.
According to statements made by Chertoff and others that they didn’t expect Katrina to do the damage it did to NO (in spite of the scientific data stating NO had a great potential of flooding), obviously the above was not done, or done half-assed.
– Homeland Security is working with the American Red Cross and other volunteer agencies to ensure sheltering and critical needs are met immediately. More than 350 shelter sites have been identified by the American Red Cross for those displaced by Hurricane Frances.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but as I understand it, the Mayor of NO chose the Superdome as a shelter of last resort for Katrina, did Red Cross have any assistance in place there? I don’t recall hearing about it if they did. How many shelters were made available?
capelza
Darrell, you showed your true colours with the Harrah’s dumpster crack.
I saw an interview with a N.O. Natl. Guard soldier (yeah, they were there from the beginning..go figure).
He was talking about soldiering on for his community, he and his soldiers, even though some were MISSING and some couldn’t find their own families.
You obviously, from the comfort of your ROOM, have no idea about real poverty. They HAVE to be homeless, mentally ill, or crackheads.
But enough, this topic WAS about levees failing.
Davebo
Look guys. You’re all thinking short term here IMO.
Yes, Houston is helping out and will continue to do so. But in the long run these folks face some serious challenges.
There aren’t going to be free apartments forever, and eventually they’ll have to leave the cruise ships in galveston.
Many will find employment as frankly as sad as it all is, Katrina is a financial windfall to Houston. But many won’t for a variety of reasons.
Not even the fourth largest city in the US undergoing a temporary boom can absorb 40,000 new citizens. We already teach our children in trailers for the most part and our legislature punted yet again on coming up with a reasonable school finance system in two special sessions this summer.
Eventually a lot of these people are going to have to seek new lives elsewhere outside of Texas. And it’s going to be extremely difficult.
Just take a stroll through your home and imagine starting over from scratch. Look at all the things you’ve aquired over the years that have to be replaced. It’s a daunting task and sadly I fear a lot of folks, once the enormity of the task becomes clear, will just give up. That leaves folks who were previously working poor falling into the hopeless homeless category.
Tim F
Substantive as always.
Darrell
Again, is there one SHRED of honest doubt that a good number of those people, people who could not even afford to leave town.. that a good percentage are mentally ill, or substance abusers, or homeless before the storm hit? Any doubt about that at all?
Translation: I know the topic was about levees failing, but I wanted to get in my cheap shots, loftily pretending as if a good percetage of the evacuees in the Astrodome did not have serious problems, even before Katrina hit.
Vladi G
See, in Darrell’s world, if you point out that he’s a racist, he feels you’re being intolerant of his racism, which in turn makes YOU a racist. Interesting, but fucked up, mind on that one.
Oh, and he’s a serial liar.
Darrell
How is it a financial windfall to Houston?
Rome Again
Well, excuse me, when you reference Hurricane Pam, and then add a link that says “more here”, I assumed it was about Hurricane Pam. That IS the way the English language works, you know.
By the way, I’m not taking part in any namecalling here, so why don’t you cease as well? I’m tryiing to engage you in conversation. I find your insults repugnant and irrational.
capelza
No, Darrell, the translation is I am sick of you killing any thread you post in, because it becomes ALL Darrell, ALL the time.
Rome Again
TallDave, I don’t think that is why the levees failed at all, and I personally find that viewpoint insulting.
Mr Furious
Barbara Bush is a fucking bitch. And Darrell is her long-lost son.
Seriously, why the hell is she allowed near a microphone? Because there are a whole lot of people silently nodding along with that sentiment. That is red meat for a lot of the base. Darrell and (one can anticipate) Rush are the only assholes brave enough to follow it up. I guess they deserve some warped kudo for their honesty.
Heartless assholes.
TallDave
Plus, Barbara Bush hates poor people and hates to see the homeless getting a free meal.
Rome Again
Yes, there is a shred of honest doubt, at least in my mind. While I’m sure each of those categories can claim a certain number of NO citizens among their ranks, I don’t believe the majority of those who stayed behind were any of these things, but simply poor people who couldn’t afford to leave or pay for the means to live elsewhere.
Why do you think these conditions will change in the long term after relocation? The mentally ill will still be mentally ill in another city. Drug abusers will still look for drugs after they’ve been moved elsewhere. The homeless who are being housed will not stay there forever, and the circumstances that made them homeless originally might not be rectified.
Furthermore, why do these things even matter? The fact is they are HUMAN and deserve to be helped! Are you human Darrell?
Tim F
TallDave bravely shows that what this situation needs more than anything else is sarcastic irony. We salute you, TallDave.
Darrell
No, no, what this situation needs more than anything is self indulgent pontifications like
Davebo
Darryl
The Port of Houston is taking on shipments from New Orleans and Pascagula.
Hundreds of New Orleans companies are relocating either temporarily or permanently to Houston. Real Estate brokers reporting they aren’t even negotiating on office space.
It goes on and on and on.
Another Jeff
Hey Tim F,
Why don’t you get off your soapbox? I don’t think TallDave’s snark is particularly helpful, but you’re the one that posted the Barbara Bush quote in a link about the levees breaking, so please spare us the righteous indignation.
Rome Again
I don’t agree John, I’ve seen many lefties insist that state and local officials also should share the blame, and I totally agree.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Yeah, you just know Babs Bush had evil intentions. It was that parenthetical laugh she did. I bet she stroked her thin handlebar mustache, too, when the sinister music was cued up.
Do you really wanna tell me that a bunch of bums who easily could be face down floating in the river that is New Orleans aren’t grateful to be alive, dry and fed?
When will George Soros and TH Kerry open their doors to NOLA’s displaced, you know, for the children?
over it
Darrell, this is exactly the type of comment I was referring to yesterday when I said that your quotes could be quoted by the Left as evidence of the Evil Right.
All they have to do is block quote you and say “You want to see how deranged some (most?) Righties have become? This deranged!”
Whether or not the people in shelters now were in dire straits before the storm DOES NOT MATTER. You are defending a crass, inhuman, indefensible, vile comment that should NEVER have been made. There is NO excuse for it. PERIOD. To waste your time jousting at the windmill of this conflict only bares your ass. NO ONE will support you/or Barbara Bush on this unless they truly are from the DERANGED end of the Right OR the Left.
I have seen you type some pretty crass, combative, incendiary things….but this is the first truly loathsome, vile, hateful, absolutely unforgiveable thing I have seen from you.
Once again…the ONLY persons who you will find to agree with you are from the cesspool of humanity(left, right, middle whatever).
Her comment was disgusting….but could be attributed to a lack of thought. To defend her comment knowingly is nauseating…and can only be attributed to a lack of humanity.
Sheesh.
capelza
So, can we go back to my question about the 2 year old levee breaking on the 17th street canal? Some good partisan flaming about why a levee was built in this day and age, knowing that a Cat4 or 5 could topple it…why?
Please, Im trying to move the question back to the topic..induldge me :)
Rome Again
Excuse me if you think I was being crass Darrell, but you are the one making the point that the victims of this storm are for a large part mentally ill, drug users or homeless. Talk about crass!
By the way, do you have any data to back up this assertion? I’d like to see your links, all of them.
over it
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!, Add yourself to my diatribe above.
I do not care if you are from the Looney Left or the Radical Right or the Malcontent Middle….to adhere to this mentality is repulsive. To say the least.
Tim F
When you compare my snark to TallDave’s snark, mine wins. By a mile. Look at it this way, in my case all I needed was the direct quote. Poor Barb did the work for me. By contrast T-Dave was reduced to taking what some people actually said, blowing it up into a ridiculous caricature and then attributing it to The Left in general. You can say that they’re both snark but in terms of art you can’t really compare.
Rome Again
Good question Capelza, and I would also like to know why “Hurricane Pam” which Darrell states was a “worst case scenario” was supposedly a category 3 drill. Why didn’t they drill a category 4 or 5? Because they knew it was impossible to recover from that? Maybe!
over it
There is nothing partisan about it. BOTH parties screwed up on this one. The blame for this woefully inadequate defensive barrier extends over DECADES. I commented in a previous thread about the Dutch and how they started building their system in 1954 after a storm in 53 flooded them and caused catastrophic damage. They built the new system in preparation for the “Perfect Storm”. They did not finish the project until….get this….1998. Took them DECADES. It is obvious that we are(and have been) decades behind the ball on this….neither political party is solely to blame.
Like I also said before….we need to get our hand on the best DUTCH engineers we can and get to building a system worth a damn.
Darrell
Tell us you f*cking prick, explaine WHY is was so “vile” and so obviously “loathsome”? since only those who would agree with me are the “cesspool of humanity” and all. Again, fuck you
Rome Again
Bunch of bums? It must really burn you up that your tax dollars are going to feeding and caring for them, eh? Aren’t you so happy that your lot in life was so much better? Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you “the Compassionate Conservative”.
capelza
Thank you! I agree about the Dutch. Somewhere I read some great snark…the first guy that runs on the “Dutch Engineer” ticket in LA wins hands down.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
You’re an idiot. Seriously. What was the crass statement made? That the down and out feel lucky to be alive instead of drowned? You need to get a life, dude.
What should Barbara have said? Here, let me take a crack: “My son George is an idiot. If only John Kerry were in office, I’d be 20 years old again and hurricanes would rain down puppies and gumdrops! Those currently housed in the Astrodome need to file lawsuits immediately. The displaced should all be given mansions and Porsches all paid for by Haliburton!”
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Actually, I made my lot in life better. These BUMS have every chance of cleaning up their life, all paid for by hardworking people like me.
There are free public schools and all sorts of free (read: taxpayer funded) programs, local, state and nationally, to help the poor. Don’t give me this crap about “lot in life.”
I don’t choose to spend my life sitting in my own pools of urine and feces waiting for my next fix. The BUMS do.
over it
Actually, this “f*cking prick” is a “f*cking bitch”. Get your gender insults correct.
As for the rest. *Yawn*.
I need not bother to explain anything to you. I tried to do so quite civily yesterday….and, in fact, at one point even recieved an apology from you. I took this as a sign that you were not actually a loon….just a pissed off partisan. I now see the error of my thinking..you are indeed a loon(foaming at the mouth nonetheless). I have come to the conclusion that continuing any sort of civil discourse with you is a worthless endeavor.
For as much as you rail about the Left…you give superb ammo to anyone wanting to bash the Right.
Save your breath/fingers….I’ll never respond/comment to you again. To loosely quote(ironically) Mrs. Bush— “I mean, it’s, you’re not relevant. So, why should I waste my beautiful mind on someone like you?”.
I have a feeling that John will soon have Flame threads for you where you and you alone are the only one ranting and raving. Have fun….I, for one, will no longer play your little reindeer games.
:P
summr
Several ways: Houston Finds Business Boon After Katrina
Excerpts:
…
By the way, your Harrah dumpster comments are unbelievably repulsive. Since you think it is such a wonderful thing, one can only hope that someday you will also get to partake of freebies in the wake of a natural disaster that robs you of all your possessions. I’m sure you’re eagerly looking forward to that day and the wonderful opportunity to rebuild your life from scratch.
Darrell
over it wrote:
yes “over it” , we can all see you’re so above that insult thing
Rome Again
Oh, what a GEM you are!
Jesus said “ye shall always have the poor”, “love your neighbor as yourself”, “what you do to the least of these you also to do me”, “sell all you have and give to the poor”.
You don’t seem to care about humanity and trying to alleviate suffering. How sad a commentary that is.
over it
Again, not a dude…not that it really matters though.
As for the rest of your oh so enlightend comment….where does Mrs. Bush say ANYTHING that can even be remotely interpretted as meaning that they were lucky to be alive and therefore better off there? What she said was “And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway”…as in, PRIOR to the storm. She did not say “So many of these people have lost their homes and all of their belongings perhaps even family members,…so this is working very well for them”. Two VERY different statements.
Now, I say again…she may well merely be a victim of lack of brain to mouth control…and perhaps did not mean to say what she said. However…what she said is indefensible and I HIGHLY doubt she would repeat it if given the opportunity.
I am not Barbara Bush bashing…I am upset with something she said. I am however bashing anyone who would actually DEFEND her statement….whether as it was stated(Darrell)…or by changing the meaning of her words to suit their position(Oh,Boy.Stupidity).
Again….don’t bother flaming at me anymore…I am done communicating(word used VERY loosely) with you as well.
:P
over it
Yeah, I know that there is probably some unwritten rule about block quoting yourself…but…I just noticed my unintentional pun and it made me laugh. Figured others may as well…and God knows a giggle would not hurt this place. ;)
hadenoughofthisyet
Exactly. Doing a little reading — it seems that IEM, Inc., a Baton Rouge, LA based emergency management and homeland security consultant, was contracted by DHS/FEMA to develop a catastrophic hurricane disaster plan for Southeast Louisiana and the City of New Orleans.
It seems the second part their work was not funded. Funding was cut. Perhaps we might be in a little different place if it hadn’t.
http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/03/Worldandnation/One_question_builds__.shtml
Krista
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been to Holland, and when you consider how the place was utterly destroyed 60 years ago, and see how beautiful the place is now, it really impresses. They actually know how to make buildings fit in with their surrounding environments, as opposed to just barfing up a bunch of concrete and calling it a building.
space
Mama Bush once again reminds us of where her son developed his compassionate conservativism. Kudos to the Republicans on this thread (including John Cole) who appreciate how disgusting such sentiments are.
But back to the original thread topic: What’s up with the levees? I’m guessing that a barge or other boat did collide and cause the collapse of at least one of the levees. But I don’t think it really matters. With multiple breaches, it is clear that the entire system was ineffective. Indeed, we knew that and that is why a mandatory evacuation was ordered. You don’t clear out an entire city just because a bad hurricane is coming through.
As for the blame game, I have no doubt that some Democrats bear some of the blame. Clearly the city’s evacuation plan was lacking. There appear to have been buses that went unused. And I’m sure that there are many other things that the mayor and governor could have done before and after Katrina struck.
But there are two critical factors which distinguish the responsibility of the mayor and governor from that of DHS/FEMA. First, disasters ARE WHAT FEMA DOES. They have PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY for both planning and relief of major disasters in the U.S. If N.O. and Louisiana had insufficient plans in place, FEMA should have stepped up to, at least, alert people of the lack of adequate preparations.
Second, the strategic importance of America’s largest port and largest refineries mandates that the federal government not leave their survival up to the whims of local officials. The New Orleans mayor is not accountable to the the American people. George Bush and his appointments at DHS/FEMA are. When people ask why gas is $4/gal., I don’t want to hear the president pointing fingers at local officials. It’s pathetic.
Darrell
They had lots of plans and had received lots of Fed money.. but they had piss poor execution. Was the Superdome even on the list of approved shelters in their local plan? Mandatory evacuation orders not issued until Sunday?
Should the Feds just take authority from a recalcitrant State govt? That opens up a very steep slippery slope, don’t you think?
Tim F
Darrell, don’t act surprised when people call you a complete retard. State and local governments begged for federal help. FEMA’s own website makes it clear that in this sort of disaster they have primary responsibility for planning, rescue and reconstruction.
It’s a shame that being wrong isn’t painful.
Tim F
For example:
Rome Again
Great point, thanks for making it!
summr
I’ll admit I know nothing about building levees, but I imagine that in the wake of this disaster, any new levees built will take advantage of knowledge from the Dutch and the research being done by the Army Corps of Engineers
in conjunction with various universities (link posted by John Cole in a different thread).
It is troubling that it has taken even the Dutch decades to build a first-rate
defense system; what if another catastrophic storm had occurred in the interim?
Trent
Hey John,
Amazing how one Darrell can turn your reasonably rational, high-minded site into a shit-for-brains mudfest.
Good thing we got rid of the Dear Leader quips, though!
Steve
Not much you can do. Once that levee is broken, you got a mess. Even if they did have the sandbags there, by the time they got around to deploying them, the city would have already been flooded.
I watched this play out in the ’93 flooding. Living in Iowa at the time, we at least had some advance warning to go forth and reinforce existing levees. Even so, many of them did break, and when they did the flooding was rapid with very little time to respond except get the hell out of there. The situation in New Orleans is all the worse, as it’s a bowl to fill, rather than just a flood plain like we dealt with, where you just had to go to higher ground maybe a few hundred yards away.
I know that you’re still trying to find some way to blame the locals for the Bush administrations lack of reaction… but you’re stretching here.
jobiuspublius
I know, but, it’s hard to swallow all this at once. We are, by implication, already looking at the long term. No sane person trusts this Worst POTUS ever to protect us.
docG
From MSNBC:
Uh, huh. And O.J. will find the real killer.
Stormy70
She may have put it inelegantly, but in some cases it is true.
John S.
Posters to Balloon Juice:
If you are tired of these threads turning into “all Darrell all the time”, then simply ignore him.
You’ll be amazed at how fast he goes away when nobody pays any attention to his mindless drivel.
Ever hear the sound of one hand clapping?
Demdude
Amen John S.
Trent
Yea, and in some cases, it was true that some 9/11 widows were happy that their husband died.
So we should be thankful for 9/11?
Darrell
Well lookie lookie who’s agreeing with my “vile”, “loathesome”, and “racist” comments (from Stormy’s LA times link):
Oh where is their humanity?? the heartless bastards
Darrell
Translation: Darrell schooled me the other day, pointing out factual errors and lies on my part, making me feel really stupid. I don’t like to feel stupid so I’m not going to respond to him
over it
Yeah Trent…I would react equally as vehemently had this been said:
“And so many who lost their spouse in New York here, you know, were unhappy with them anyway, so this (she chuckled slightly)—this is working very well for them.”
Once again…even if there is some amount of truth to the statement…it is beyond ‘inelegant’ to say it out loud(especially when you know every word is being logged by reporters).
I will still give Mrs. Bush the benefit of the doubt as to her intentions with her statement(if she meant it as she said it there can be no good intentions). I am willing to call it a slip of the tongue(or of the brain). But to defend her comment is..well..indefensible.
Darrell
Barbara Bush:
Underpriveleged former New Orleans resident:
Hello, leftist idiots, this highlights in big giant letters what self-righteous head-in-the-sand dumbasses so many of you truly are
Mike S
Darrell can’t understand the difference between someone who has lived through the experiance making that kind of statement and someone who watched it from afar while screaming “Don’t blame Bush.”
He’s the type that agrees with a woman who says she’s fat, far too stupid to understand when to keep his big mouth shut.
Rome Again
Interesting, I read the link, and looked up other information regarding this. I find it strange that your link calls “Hurricane Pam” a category 5 storm drill, yet many other websites say it was a category 3 (including Darrell’s link). Is this revisionism? They are not even sure which category storm they drilled for?
By the way, I just read a link from CNN entitled Chertoff: Katrina scenario did not exist and I’ve come to the conclusion that Chertoff is a MORON! I’ve seen some of his quotes about not knowing the severity of the storm and such previously, but I did not see the following until today:
Funny thing, this “perfect storm” as he calls it, wasn’t even a direct hit on NOLA, nor was it a cat 5, so it could have been MUCH worse.
Don’t you feel comforted now?
over it
Multi-millionaire Barbara Bush:
Underpriveleged former New Orleans resident:
There is a very striking difference between these 2 quotes. If you are unable to comprehend it…there is little anyone can do to help you see it.
Quite sad actually.
jobiuspublius
Ideally, they would have been given credit for trying depending on the effort they put forth. Tell me about the effort put forth by Worst POTUS Ever and Friends. Tell me about leadership.
Trent
Guys, the difference is that Barbara Bush is the mother and husband of two Presidents. She should have more of a clue.
But that entire family is divorced from reality, so how can you expect more from them?
To be honest, i don’t think it’s a big deal BECAUSE i know they’re so divorced from reality. It’s the like the crazy beggar on the corner. I expect bizarre behavior out of him.
I expect inappropriate statements from the Bush family.
Rome Again
Somehow got Balloon Juice web info in that link to Chertoff quote on CNN, sorry! Here it is: Chertoff: Katrina scenario did not exist.
jg
We didn’t get leadership, we got, ‘not my job’. And we got assholes supporting Bush as he sat on vacation saying ‘not my job’.
Darrell
BB: There are many underpriveleged here, and it’s working out well for them
Former underpriveleged NO resident: It’s working out well for us
Hilarious to watch the blatent dishonesty, trying to change the meaning of the English language pretending the two statements don’t mean EXACTLY the same thing. Oh and nice touch, with your dismissive “if you don’t see it, then there’s nothing anybody can do”. In other words, how dare I point out that you are in fact lying your ass off when you clam that there was a “striking difference” in what was said between the two. Oh where is your humanity ‘over it’?
Mike S
Definately not within your soul. But I’ve come to expect it from idiot children like you.
Rome Again
They aren’t the same thing at all.
hadenoughofthisyet
Hmm. A new term. I don’t see this term described by The University of Delaware’s Disaster Research Center. They have three terms: emergencies, disasters, and catastrophes. They have differentiated disasters from emergencies and catastrophes as follows:
So is he still going to use the argument that the local and state officials were still responsible for the after event duties?
I wonder how he is going to spin his way out of this one. Maybe an ultracatastrophe prevents federal officials from performing their duties. That’s the ticket. Does this mean we should contact the UN?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster
Rome Again
OMG hadenough, I grew up in U of D country, Newark, born in Wilmington!
What would he call a cat 5 direct hit, I wonder?
Darrell
‘over it’, remember counseling me the other day about aggressive name calling? And here you show up on this thread, hypocrite that you are, and launch into me with “vile”, “loathesome”, “cesspool”, etc, etc. And now it turns out you were wrong. I apologized to you the other day when I was proven wrong (and at that time I didn’t use nearly the insults you have thrown out today). So now that you have been proven wrong, do you have the decency and the honor to apologize? or will you continue to lie your ass off claiming that the English language doesn’t mean what it means?
over it
Definitely. Please refer to previous John Cole Grammar thread. ;)
And, being a child has nothing to do with one’s level of idiocy. I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of you would consider me a ‘child’…..I was unable to vote in the Presidential election. ;) And though my comments will sometimes reflect my age(I freely admit that there is much I have yet to learn ad experience)…I will never use it as an excuse. :)
jobiuspublius
What’s being left out by the Evil Barbie appologists is that she is afraid that those people will want to stay. She deserves to join the pig man, at the levee, at the bottom. There, the argument has come full circle, game over, AGAIN.
As for the Jerktoff appologists, the results of the Hurricane Pam excercise were never reviewed and followed up. I posted that link earlier today.
hadenoughofthisyet
I fear the answer to that. Especially since I live in an area that is exposed to hurricanes.
Andrei
John, for what its worth, are you referring to general people on the “left” or those on this comments board? Because many from the left who comment on your blog have conceeded that point. I don’t think this is a fair or accurate comment in that light.
I’m also not sure Darrell heard you as he seems to think the out of bounds and offensive comment he made earlier, which has basically derailed this entire comments section (not surprised), can still be said over and over. Maybe you’re forcefulness wasn’t enough John?
Rome Again
Me too, I’m on the gulf, 40 miles south of where Charley hit. I delivered newspapers during Katrina here in SW Florida. All we got was a nice breeze and some wind. It ended up crossing about 100 miles south of us over the Keys. Initially it was predicted to go right over us.
Rome Again
nice breeze and some rain I mean, not much rain… although I was training someone to take over my route that night (I recently took a management position with the paper) and he refused to double bag. I’m so glad those papers didn’t get wet, each complaint of wet papers would have meant $3.00 off my check!
Darrell
Or maybe John doesn’t like defending whining little bitches like you who are always running to him trying to hide under his apron
Andrei
To be fair… John Cole was first in the pool with “That may be the most offensive god damn thing I have read yet.”
But you seem to be ignoring Cole’s own assesstment of your comment for whatever reason and refuse to budge an inch in this thread. So for that, you get the “make your own bed and sleep in it” advice.
It’s quite easy to apologize for stepping out of bounds with remarks, Darrell. I did it, and I feel the world better today for it. So much so that not even you will get me to reneg on my promise to tone it down.
Mike S
Hey Darrell. You do remember that the first person to call you out on your disgusting comment was John Cole himself, right?
I can only pray that you make comments like that to the general public. It’s the best way to show just how “compassionate” the New Republicans are. The less people see of people like John and the more they see people like you, the better the Democratic party’s chances are for the foreseeable future.
Andrei
Sorry to disappoint. Not taking the bait.
Tim F
If an ‘ultracatastrophe’ can be a short, smirking prick then I think we already have one.
over it
Actually, Darrell…I will apologize…for the ‘cesspool’ comment, the ‘loon’ comment, and the ‘lack of humanity’ comment(I do not recall using ‘loathsome’).
Those were direct insults to a person/people as a whole….and as such, not justifiable. So, for those portions of my comments “Mea Culpa”.
As for the rest of it, it applied to comments made and behavior exhibited, not to the person. Therefore, noting the above exceptions, I stand firmly by the rest of what I said.
Basically, I did what I asked you not to do yesterday…I stooped to the level of those spewing insults on the page and did so myself. Ironically, it was to your level that I stooped.
Go back through every comment I have made on this site and you will find that this is the only thread that I stooped to said level. The behavior of name calling and other incendiary language from you is not limited to this thread. I would, in fact, be surprised if it was limited to this blog.
Now, for really real, I am done. I have an apology from you, you have one from me, and it is obvious to me that for us to continue any sort communication is not worth the headache.
Fare thee well.
TallDave
Can’t we all just agree that Republicans are evil, and everything they do is intended to hurt blacks and the poor?
Darrell
Yes, he did say that, but since when do you kooks consider everything John Cole writes to be gospel? Only when it fits with agenda, right? And Cole wasn’t one of the lowlifes calling me a “racist bastard”, “loathesome”, etc. And guess what lowlifes? We now have a former destitute NO resident validating EXACTLY what I said, exactly what BB said, validating what anyone with their eyes open could see..
TallDave
Come on people, we need UNITY! And to bash Republicans!
hadenoughofthisyet
?
Funny thing. Most of my relatives consider themselves Republicans. So no, I don’t agree with that sentiment. But I also don’t recognize the current Republican party as resembling anything that my relatives believe in. And neither do they. Except for my brother-in-law — so I have written him off as in a permanent state of cognitive dissonance. It’s a shame, really.
Vladi G
It’s hliarious to watch Darrell, the serial liar, accuse others of lying on this thread. Pot-Kettle indeed.
Darrell
over it wrote:
Part of the “rest of what you said” was:
And the 2 quotes were:
Barbara Bush: “And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this (she chuckled slightly)—this is working very well for them.”
Underpriveleged former New Orleans resident:
“Actually, some people were a little better off after the storm,” said a 26-year-old man who spoke on condition of anonymity as he took groceries out of a store last week. “I had gotten to the end of my rope. Now, I got a little something.”
“Striking” difference between the two, eh? Do you see how dishonest you are?
John S.
You people really are gluttons for punishment. You know Darrell is a legend in his own mind. You know he will never believe anything other than his own bullshit. You know that he drags the level of discourse down to a level somewhere between ‘child wanting a cookie’ and ‘teenager defying authority’, and yet you all persist in engaging him.
It is like that phenomenon known as ‘rubbernecking’, where people cannot help but to stare at something they really shouldn’t be paying attention to thereby contributing to the very bottleneck they just spent untold minutes railing against.
I don’t know if anyone has used this term before, but please refrain from bloggernecking. You’re only making the traffic worse.
over it
Hey now Vladi…watch who yer callin’ a Kettle. ;)
Darrell
That makes a helluva lot of sense, especially regarding the Port. You smart boy Davebo. Too bad it comes at the expense of such a catastrophe. OTOH, Houston city services will be pressed doing more for the approx 100,000 (including hotels and people staying with relatives) newbie arrivals
John S.
For me, it isn’t about bashing Republicans. It is about laying blame at the feet of those in government responsible for this fiasco, be they Democrat, Independent, Republican, Communist – whatever.
I’m sorry if you feel that this culminates in a ‘bash Republican’ mentality, but the simple fact of the matter is that the large majority of those in power who are responsible are Republican. That is the byproduct of their recent consolidation of power, and with that power (here comes the cliche) comes responsibility.
Whether you like it or not.
John S.
Wow, I almost overlooked this particular piece of delusional fantasy, so I have to ask…
Darrell, do you REALLY think this is the case? I mean, is it possible that you ACTUALLY think you are some sort of legendary commentator that strikes fear in the hearts of those you shriek at?
over it
My mom said that I cannot play with you anymore Darrell. Go find someone else to play “I know you are but what am I?” with. Preferably someone in another neighborhood.
Back to topic….
Just out of curiosity…how else could a barge have gotten on the city side of the levee?
Why weren’t the barges sent out to sea when the hurricane was coming? That is what they do with the Navy ships here. Now, there may be some aspect of Atlantic vs. Gulf that I do not understand….but it seems like they would have done SOMETHING with the REALLY big floaty things.
And, who in the long run is responsible for deciding where to begin the rebuilding/reconstruction? Do they start with the environment? The public buildings? Whose decision is it? When does the decision get made and implemented?
Andrei
Just out of morbid curiosity Darrell, what do you think Cole meant when he said:
“…may be the most offensive god damn thing I have read yet.” [Emphasis added.]
Rome Again
You are correct, I am guilty of this, and have made an effort to stop as of about an hour or so ago. Please forgive me, I did not know who Darrell was, as I have not been on Balloon Juice much lately. I’ve been working every day for the last two weeks, about 70 hours a week including my route that I had to replace with a new carrier (trained three, one quite, fired two… finally asked the former carrier before me to come back for a short time until we can get someone reliable). Thought I could come here on my first day off. Maybe I should have lurked again first. My mistake, apologies.
I will no longer engage Darrell!
Davebo
Daryll, and perhaps for your other brother Darryl.
The biggest expense is police overtime at the Dome, convention center, etc.
FEMA is covering that. As to hotels, sadly many are raising rates in response to the demand but I think our DA is investigating claims of such.
I have no idea what you mean by you smart boy but hey, whatever gets you through the embarrassment of the nightly Jeopardy episode dude.
Trent
I can’t properly express how happy I am that this place has become the Darrell Show.
John S.
I hope the answer to that – and many other questions – will be more forthcoming than the answers we were given as to how 9/11 could have happened.
Darrell
Because everyone remembers all the talk about the threat of planes flying into buildings before 9/11, right? I remember well all the government and news warnings prior. Anyone could have seen 9/11 coming.. “It’s all the fault of criminal Bush!!”
moonbats
Demdude
Why weren’t the barges sent out to sea when the hurricane was coming?
==================================================
A barge is: a roomy usually flat-bottomed boat used chiefly for the transport of goods on inland waterways and usually propelled by towing.
I believe the ratio of barges to tug boats is quite large. We used them to transport fuel. Probably not enough tug boats.
I don’t think flat bottom boats do well in open sea (my father was on one in WWII.-LST, they ran to port if a storm got anywhere near them)
That is my amatuer explanation. I willingly stand to be corrected with someone with real knowledge.
Tim F
It looks like a three-year-old has commandeered T-Dave’s login. If anybody knows TallDave’s phone number, I’m sure that he’d appreciate it if you called him and let him know.
CJ
Two reasons. Barges aren’t particularly seaworthy. They are for use on inland waters for the most part. They usually don’t have their own power and sending one out into the ocean during a hurricane would be silly as it would undoubtedly sink, creating a navigation hazard. Like most moored vessels, you would likely just tie it up and hope for the best.
The second reason is if, as I’ve read somewhere (here?) the barge was being used in construction of a bridge spanning the canal, it was likely topped by a large crane and other equipment that may or may not have fit beneath that bridge (or others) as it stood. In any case, the barge was likely tied up to keep it from coming loose and that mooring failed. Further, there may not have been time to tear down the equipment and get the barge to a safer location.
Mind you, this is pure speculation based on personal observation of construction barges in Milwaukee and Minneapolis and of grain barges in St. Paul.
CJ
Rome Again
Excuse me for stepping into the pile of Darrell doo-doo again, but I need to debunk this piece of crap he just posted here… I apologize for doing this after I said I wouldn’t, but this in my opinion HAS to be addressed:
No Darrell, we (private citizens) were not privvy to that information, but the the president and his staff WERE, and they had an August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing entitled “bin Ladin determined to strike in the U.S.”… ask Condi, she’ll tell you about it.
Now, I’m done playing with you, go find another sandbox please.
Marc
Darrell, please go see a psychiatrist. I’m serious. You apparently have some major issues.
gratefulcub
Darrell,
You feel the need to defend this shit?
You feel the need to defend this? The former first lady of the united states talking about her own citizens, saying that the hurricane that killed 10,000+ friends and relatives is “working out VERY well for them.” Republicanism at its best: death and destruction is fine, as long as you get more shit out of it.
They all ‘appear to have benn homeless and destitute.’ They just lived through a hurricane and flood and are wading through a toxic city. They ‘appear’ destitute. That is america’s opinion, and it IS because they are black. Large groups of poor desperate blacks, scares the hell out of America. The reports were that the city was going to riot at any moment. Why? Because they were black, and that is what the negros do. Right?
I am not going to call you names, I don’t know you. But that post above, is the most heartless racist blather I have come across. It is disgusting. Anything you say from this point on is less than meaningless. Anyone that can harbor such sentiments is useless in any constructive conversation.
Darrell
I’ll post whenever I damn well please as long as John Cole permits. You kooks want a leftist echo chamber so you can stroke each other without anyone pointing out what stupid loons you are for saying “Bush should have known Al Queda would fly planes into our buildings!”
Rome Again
smarter opposition please?
Trent
No, the problem is, you act like a jackass.
Up til now, everyone’s been more or less intelligent and mature. You’ve turned this place into the freeper board.
Rome Again
Hiliarious stuff Darrell, isn’t that what KOS is for? I’m not there, I’m here communicating with Republicans, as well as Democrats. I’m not here because of the Democrats, I’m here because I feel it is important to debate current events with the opposition!
Darrell
then this shit:
Fuck you gratefulcub.. you and your f*cking hateful baseless accusations of racism. Who the hell said the evacuees were ALL black you hateful moron? There are white people in there too.. did you know that? Here is what one of the destitute evacuees said which confirms Barbara Bush’s statement:
The destitute validating EXACTLY what Barbara Bush said, because the truth of what she said is obvious to anyone who doesn’t have their head up their ass. Not everyone evacuated were middle class. These are people who, for the most part, couldn’t even afford to leave the city
And anyone who hurls charges of racism at another because you think my skin color (of which you have no fucking clue) make me fair game are themselves racist.
Jeezus you people are fucked up. Yet you see yourself as decent and honorable, right?
Tim F
Because they still would have hit the city, but with more velovity. Because you will never find a human being smart enogh to get a tug license but stupid enough to push a massive pallet of barges out to sea, and into a category 5 hurricane. If it weren’t for the fact that the load of barges would break up on open water it would be the prospect of experiencing The Perfect Storm, in IMAX, with lifelike drowning.
gratefulcub
I care not what you say.
Darrell
Because you’re a fucking lowlife who had no right or basis to call me a racist
gratefulcub
Still don’t care.
Jim Caputo
Here’s something I heard about today. Mike Parker, the former head of the Army Corps of Engineers, a republican and a Bush appointee, was forced to resign in 2002 because he couldn’t go along with the Bush administration cuts in funding for infrastructure projects, including the levees that just gave way.
Here’s some excerpts…
Now I’ve seen quotes on here from the current top guy of the Army Corps of Engineers, but it’s apparent that to get and keep the job, you can’t come out against this administration, so I think anything he says has to be evaluated with that fact in mind.
Rome Again
Sounds like Shinseki all over again! I hope that an independent investigation proceeds, and they discuss this information.
Krista
I think there IS a difference. Yeah, there may have been a VERY few people who had absolutely nothing before the hurricane, and now own a few material goods…”a little something”, as it were. I don’t think too many of them are making out like bandits, which seems to be what Barbara Bush has implied. “And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this (she chuckled slightly)—this is working very well for them.” She seems to be implying that the vast majority of poor people in New Orleans are much better off now because of this hurricane. And you know what? Even if some of them do own a toaster, or a DVD player now, or have access to some temporary housing, I still wouldn’t say that this is “working out well” for them. How many of those people watched loved ones, neighbours and friends become bloated corpses in front of their eyes? I think it’s offending so many people, because she obviously hasn’t a sweet clue what it’s like to go without, and from many previous comments that she’s made, has shown us all that she lives in a bubble of privileged unreality. So for someone like that to say how much better off these people are now…well, she just seems like the Texan Marie Antoinette to me.
John Cole
Great Jim. Except Mike Parker himself said that the cuts iun funding would not have had any impact on this. Thanks for building up his credibility, though!
PotVsKtl
But you are racist Darrell. You can accept that about yourself and try to correct it, or you can fly off the handle into a temper tantrum every time somebody points it out to you.
Rome Again
Jeezus you people are fucked up.
No, your projection of who we are is what is fucked up. I don’t consider a black man any different than a white man, he is human. I don’t consider a large group of black people any differently than a large group of white man, they are human. I don’t consider any man or any large group of people to be anything other than human.
I will walk in the midst of a group of black people (and have many times), with no fear, because I respect they are human. Will you do the same?
Cyrus
Darrell,
Mrs. Bush said “many of the people… this is working very well for them.” The random local said “some of the people were a little better off.”
Aside from the ridiculous arrogance of a multimillionaire making a blanket pronouncement about how a natural disaster which affected most severely poor people is a blessing in disguise, she and you are saying it worked out very well for many of the people, whereas the local is saying some of the people are a little better off. That is the difference, and if you still claim you can’t see it than… I don’t know what. I mean, why am I posting this?
The second is true of… almost anything really. In a large enough group, some people will be better off after an upheaval. The first could be true to the strict letter of the statement – a hundred people is “many” by some standards – but in any meaningful sense, it is vile. In order for “many” of those who stayed behind to be better off after the hurricane, “many” of them – a quarter, a third, more – would have to be homeless, friendless drug addicts. And believe it or not, some people get stuck in poverty and still know how to use utensils besides just a coke spoon. Even if they’re black. I know, who’da thunk it?
Tim F
Some time ago while pointing out that the concepts of a capitalized Left and a capitalized Right are silly, Darrell made a particularly feeb post to which I replied,
Well, there you go. Republican or Democrat, it’s long been clear to most that the Bushes at times can be insensitive, priviledged doofuses. Cultists OTOH would see a founding member fo the Club Of Right being criticized and rush to defend her. She could have bitten off the head of a live infant and it would come out the same.
We all know Darrell would rush to her aid. Stormy flirted with the idea for one post and I can’t what exactly TallDave was trying to do, but otherwise it’s pretty much unanimous in favor of giving Barb a ball gag at least until the bodies are buried. That’s an encouraging sign.
Andrei
John, shouldn’t that beg the question: Should the weight in the unfolding of a catastrophe on the scale of a New Orleans be loaded more on state/local officials who may be in over their head, or on the federal government, which have agencies and people trained to do things like fight large scale wars halfway around the world?
You title this post, “How did the levee fail?” but I don’t get the point of that question… It failed. While that’s a mildly interesting factual angle on this part of the story, I guess I’m left asking, Now what?
What’s the point of the original question? If you got what you felt was an intellectually honest answer — maybe even from someone on the left — what would that satisify for you?
Darrell
Are you people for real with your extreme caricatured views about race? Because if you’re not kidding, you kooks are are EXACTLY like the people here
Testimonial:
More testimonials from a black person:
and
Tim F
Christ, not that again. A hurricane isn’t a binary event where it either happens or does not happens. It’s a scalar phenomenon with the probability heavily slanted towards the lower categories. That means, for the umteen millionth time, that levees don’t have to defend from this particular once-in-a-century event to be a worthwhile investment.
Did the Corps of engineers get a memo from God telling them that The Big One would hit midday on August 29, 2005? We know that Bush talks to God on occasion but He seems to have left that part out. Since the Corps didn’t know when the goddamned hurricane was going to hit, they deserve some credit for making the effort for trying to get the defenses up as soon as possible, even if as soon as possible means twenty years. If The Big One came around in twenty-five years they’d be sitting pretty.
Since that memo from God apparently never made it to Bush, he deserves 100% of the blame for de-prioritizing hurricane management. Just like on 9/11, Bush chose to ignore a threat that many in his own government were screaming about. Whether or not he could have prevented this particular event, it speaks volumes about his leadership that he decided they simply didn’t matter.
John S.
Good lord!
The roadkill everyone is gawking at (Darrell) must be something awesome (and truly pungent) to behold to have inspired so much bloggernecking…
The mature responses to the barge question DO seem perfectly reasonable to me. I guess with a hurricane as large as Katrina, it can be extremely difficult to move potential projectiles far enough out of the way without making them a potentially larger problem.
If anything, it further underscores the difference between a contingency plan and a plan of action. It also makes me seriously wonder what sort of useful (and implementable) plans they have for us in South Florida should a Cat. 4/5 hit a densely populated area here.
Mike S
Huh?
Rome Again
Dream on, I greet them with a good morning or good afternoon, engage in conversation with them as I would any other person, shake their hand when we agree on something and say goodbye and walk away calmly because I have treated them no differently than I would any other human. You know nothing about me, leave your silly theatrics out of this. I wouldn’t spout off about Tiger Woods with a white man, let alone a black man. I’m female, and I don’t follow golf.
On the other hand, I know someone I work with who calls them “niggers” behind their backs any chance that person comes in contact with them, which, I might add, is quite often. This person doesn’t say it to them, they say it to me, and it makes me feel very odd, but since this person is my superior, I can’t do much about it. I like my job, and I have no inteniton of losing it. I only wish that those blacks that would come in contact with my superior could somehow come in contact with me, so I can give them the respect any human being deserves.
Fuck off Darrell, your silly storytelling is nothing but disgusting ignorance.
Darrell
Rome’s Black co-worker:
Rome Again
/ignoring Darrell and hoping John sees the need to give him a swift kick since he contributes NOTHING to the commenting here, except personal attacks and namecalling, and loathesome, vile, reprehensible thought processes.
Darrell
Depends on the meaning of the word “is”, don’t you think?
over it
Thanks for the responses to my barge question. They do make sense….honestly, I did not even know that they were flat-bottomed.
This may sound strange….but could they sink them? I know that one sunk not so long ago here(near the Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel) and they refloated it. I do not know how involved that is(nor do I know how violent the seas are beneath the surface in a hurricane) so this may be an absolutely ridiculous idea.
Whatever the solution(if there is one), it is only itty-bitty part of the bigger problem.
Darrell
I guess the leftist whackjobs didn’t pay attn to what Mike Parker himself said days ago in a CNN interview:
Parker himself saying it would not have made one damn bit of difference as even had they had full funding, it wouldn’t matter one bit, and the part of the levee which did fail was upgraded to Max capacity. The fact that the left is still trying to play cause and effect games with these small budget cuts makes it clear they’re not looking for truth, they’re desperately throwing out anything they can find, with or without basis, to try and pin it all on Bush
Mike S
Guess what, fuckwit? I had not seen that. But I’m glad to see the way you responded. It shows your true infantile need to protect your God at all costs.
Please get off your computer and get outside where more people can see this face of the GOP. Pathetic little fuckwits like you do more good for our side than anyone on our side can. The word “cultist” can’t be described any better than showing your pathetic little face to the public. Pleas Darell, let the entire country see just what you are. I’ll even pay for your airtime.
Darrell
Rome wrote:
Yes, but of course, and don’t think your black co-workers aren’t grateful to you for that:
over it
Over 2 days and 2 posts I have been called:
Dishonest. Hypocritical. Scumbag. Ignorant Bush-hater. Hateful. F*cking prick. Idiot. Dumbass. Dismissive. Liar. Lowlife.
And recieved an ever so couth “Fuck you”(classy, eh?).
I recieved more peronal attacks/insults and namecalling, from a supposed adult who does not know me, in 2 threads than I did in my entire middle school experience.
Now, those were just the lovely terms directed to me personally. I am not going to bother to list the ones thrown at the ‘lefties’ on this site. In reality, I am not a ‘leftie’, but here…the definition of ‘leftie’ according to the insult thrower is: Anyone who does not agree with me. So, in his(thankfully small) world, I am a ‘leftie’. If you add those up…..nevermind, don’t bother….would take WAY too long. You’d think that he had Tourette’s though. I guess every blog has to have one though. :(
My point?
It is laughable. The only one I will accept as a legitimate lable is ‘Dismissive’. Because I sure as heck am going to be dismissive of anything the name caller has to say from here on out.
On that note, I am outa here…..volunteering at the UMC down the street tonight. I think we are going to be sorting clothing and loading trucks to send to Texas. Feels good to be able to do something to help other than hand over my paycheck.
Have fun. ;)
Mike S
Yup, Darrell is showing his white sheets a little more clearly with each and every post. Keep going little one, you’re the gift that keeps on giving.
Darrell
And how should I have responded to you when you started in on me calling me
loathsome, vile, hateful, absolutely unforgiveable
the ONLY persons who you will find to agree with you are from the cesspool of humanity
and can only be attributed to a lack of humanity
Classy on your part, eh?
Darrell
I’m feelin’ the love baby
Rome Again
You’re a sick fuck! I have nothing more to say on the matter!
Darrell
Rome Again wrote:
Keep the love comin’!
Mike S
I do love you Darrell. I’ve copied quite a few of your comments and sent them to my real Republican friends. Needless to say, they are quite embarrassed by you.
Jim Caputo
That’s not exactly what he said. You’re paraphrasing it so as to give the best spin for your position. But kudos for presenting your spin in such a snide manner.
What he actually said is that while some flooding may have been inevitable, the disaster wouldn’t have been as bad had the money been spent to fix up the levees.
Jim Caputo
Oh and John, don’t feel like you have to ban yourself on account of that exchange. Exposing the disengenous nature of your reply was justice enough for me.
Ah well, who knows…maybe you were misled into believing what you wrote by Rush or Sean or Bill or one of the those other rightwing pillars of truth.
Jim Caputo
Here’s another article quoting Harper:
Less damage = less flooding = fewer dead
Come on, let’s all get the smear machine working on this guy. We need to find something in this man’s personal life to discredit him. Maybe he got a blowjob once. Oh man, if only he got a blowjob, then nothing he said would matter.
Darrell
Yes it is
Marc
Is anyone else amused that Darrell linked a parody site about people who don’t realize they’re racist? Because I just can’t stop laughing.
On a serious note, Darrell — seek professional help. Not for anything connected to racism, but for the weird combination of simultaneous insecurity and superiority you exhibit, all leavened with an unhealthy dose of rage. Get help.
Andrei
So much for the new comments policy…
Darrell
I’m glad you caught on to that. The other leftist kooks haven’t realized the parody yet, because, well, because their own writings mirror what’s on the parody site.
Note the number of loons who are making posts which are NOTHING BUT personal commentary and insults on. Nothing else. Look at the sheer numbers of posts about me made by you loons. You kooks obsess over me. I’m in your heads and you can’t get me out. You have nightmares about me and pee the bed. I own you kooks
Jim Caputo
I’m only going to respond to your post so as to give an explaination for what is a complete turnaround in Parker’s position. My opinion of you remains the same and I won’t debate this further with you because I think you’re only here to antagonize people and I don’t want to contribute to your illness. I won’t waste my beautiful mind on you.
The transcript you linked to was from a September 2nd show. The articles I linked to were both written before September 2nd, therefore they represent Parker’s original viewpoint. It’s no secret that Bush has people out there working the spin and leaning on those republicans who have been critical of the adminstration’s handling of this to reverse themselves and give the president better lip service when talking to the press. That someone got to Parker is not surprising. He’s not the first to reverse himself once the Rove machine got involved. We’ve seen it with others including Rep. Charles Boustany. So while you can choose to believe Parker’s reversal, I’ll believe what he said before BushCo. began twisting his arm.
jg
The strategy:
http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2005/09/index.html#007598
Mike S
Bawawawawa, that is too funny. You are a baffoon Darrell. And a racist who posted this:
What’s a “good percentage,” 10 or 20. Litle Darrell sees black people and a “good percentage” of them must be “sleeping by the dumpster outside Harrah’s.”
Darrell, we laugh at the absolute stupidity and hatred that comes out of you. And did you ever think that people didn’t catch your “parody” because it sounds just like something you would say? You’re a Democrats dream come true. An idiot racist who thinks he is a smart boy and spews his innanities everywhere he can.
We love you Darrell because we can point you out as a symbol of the New Republican Party.
Marc
Sorry, I must have misunderstood you. When you said this:
… I thought you took the site to be real. (If the people you’re yelling at aren’t kidding, then they’re like this website, which by extension, mustn’t be kidding either.)
Whatever.
And, seriously, get help.
Marc
Seriously. Get help.
John S.
Are there any posts on this thread that don’t have something to do with Darrell? It’s nearly impossible to tell. I guess when someone comes in making statements akin to ‘the Earth is flat’, it can be difficult to resist shouting from the rooftops the sheer idiocy and fallacy of such a point of view…
Anyway, roadkill may be fascinating to poke a stick at a couple of times, but to gawk at it for hours and hours on end is morbid and positively disturbing.
Speaking of disturbing, I apparently received an inadvertent answer to my question:
Whatever gets you through the day, pal.
Mike S
No wonder Bush thinks “Brownie” is doing a good job. He filled that photo op like a damn professional.
BadTux
The whole system lacked redundancy and backup, and in the aftermath of the storm, when it should have been inspected for damage and any damage fixed before it got too big to fix, nobody did it.
BTW, for the morons blaming the local levee boards for poor levee maintenance: I’ve been on those levees in New Orleans, the Ponchartrain and Mississippi River levee both. They’re marked with large sighs that say things along the lines of “WARNING: Entering Federal property.” with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers logo. The levees were owned by the Corps of Engineers, period. The local levee boards were involved only in that they would pitch in money if the Corps had no money to fix a particular portion of the levee. It was the job of the Corps of Engineers to inspect those levees in the aftermath of the storm, and if they needed manpower, I’m sure that they could have gotten hundreds of volunteers with one phone call to the local radio station. But they never did that.
One thing to note: the levee system itself was in excellent shape, it had only recently, over the past ten years, received a fairly major overhaul. The storm was just too big for it, and known weak points got overtopped and washed out the base of the concrete floodwalls, which then toppled. The left wingnuts blaming Bush for this situation are, well, nuts — Bush didn’t design the system, and it’s been known for over 40 years now that the system had to be fixed or a Category 4 hurricane (like this one) would turn New Orleans into a soup bowl. Given the intensity of the storm that slammed into it, the levee system did surprisingly well, actually… it certainly exceeded its design specs. For what that’s worth. A lot of people will survive who would have died almost instantly if the levee system had done what everybody predicted it would do when a category 4 hurricane slammed into it, i.e., collapsed instantly. Instead, the fairly slow overtopping then slow collapse gave most people time to reach their roofs or attics, from whence they could be rescued.
Whatever system is put into it splace is going to need redundancy and compartmentalization, so that one collapsed levee doesn’t flood a major part of the system. And it’s going to need to be much stronger and higher. For forty years the problems of the current levee system were well known, and nobody did anything about it. Well, now there’s really no choice — there’s no other logical place on the lower Mississippi to put a major port city, New Orleans *will* be rebuilt, and rebuilding it *without* a new levee/dike system to cope with the biggest storms would be, well, penny wise, pound foolish.
– Badtux the Louisiana Penguin
Jim Caputo
Yeah, we wouldn’t want to truth of FEMA’s ineptitude to get out, would we?
I heard on the radio today that one of the firefighters complained because he was told their first job when they get to N.O. is going to a photo-op with Bush. I shit you not.
It’s all just more plastic turkeys.
DougJ
You’re doing a heck of a job, Colie.
goonie bird
I wonder if the envirmentalist wackos found a endangered bug living on the leavees?
Cyrus
goonie bird Says:
I wonder if the envirmentalist wackos found a endangered bug living on the leavees?
Well, since the leavees [sic] aren’t there any more, I doubt it. You’d be surprised how few envirmentalists [sic] have visual hallucinations.
Henry
The red cross did not go to the superdome because the State Department of Louisiana Homeland Security (that is the state government, not federal) prevented them from going into New Orleans to help out.