Dear Families of Loved Ones Lost In Katrina:
The Federal Emergency Management Agency has requested that photographers refrain from photographing the bodies of victims of Katrina:
The Federal Emergency Management Agency, heavily criticized for its slow response to the devastation caused by the hurricane, rejected requests from journalists to accompany rescue boats as they went out to search for storm victims.
An agency spokeswoman said space was needed on the rescue boats and that "the recovery of the victims is being treated with dignity and the utmost respect."
"We have requested that no photographs of the deceased be made by the media," the spokeswoman said in an e-mailed response to a Reuters inquiry.
We disagree. We believe that the bloated, decaying corpse of your loved one(s) should be splashed on national television and on the fronts of newspapers, even if you have not been notified of their status, because this government President Bush must be held accountable for Hurricane Katrina. After all, "people have died and suffered because of the dithering of a Republican president, and they’ll do anything in their power to hide and cover that up."
We believe it is important that you "see the results, in some part, of Bush's FEMA handiwork." What we fear is that "an entire city is going to be erased from the map, and you are not going to be allowed to see it."
So, when we demand that those who died in this natural disaster have their bloated corpse bandied about like a political prop, it is really because we care deeply about this country.
Without a shred of human decency,
Attaturk
Oliver Willis
Stirling Newberry
(and many more to come, you can be sure)
John Cole
Why are you such a Bush apologist, John Cole?
Davebo
Spoke for the first time with my wife’s uncle last night, a FEMA employee for over 20 years (back when FEMA was primarily a spook agency).
He’s flown over NO and the region and it has stunned him. And this man has seen it all. He’s seriously shaken by the scope of the disaster.
As for releasing the photos of those lost, it’s obvious that the photos are going to dribble out, but I can understand FEMA’s position.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Sure, let’s show the dead floating bodies…. only if we can show the images of dire inner city NOLA poverty that rampant liberalism has been breeding for 40 years. Deal?
neil
Liberal bloggers call for journalists to be allowed to photograph dead bodies: An unconscionable outrage
FEMA recruits 50 firefighters to pose in photos with President Bush while bodies are not yet deaed: Apparently nothing wrong with that
Miller
Wednesday is Day 10 of the flooding of New Orleans. For President Bush, it is Day 8.
Davebo
Then again, they don’t oppose all photos do they?
John, I’m suprised you haven’t commented on this atrocity.
http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3004197
” But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew’s first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.”
Davebo
Neil, I believe the term is “selective outrage”.
Or in this case, “myopic outrage”.
Davebo
That’s it, the final freakin straw I tell ya!
I’m not voting to re-elect either Willis or Attaturk!
Steve
This letter appears to be a fabrication? I can’t find any link as to it’s source.
So now John Cole has become so desperate defending Bush, he can’t just cherry pick quotes… he has to make shit up.
What’s the point?
neil
I wouldn’t go that far, Davebo, since John’s blog is not an accurate picture of what’s going on in John’s head.
Davebo
Neil
So you mean that all along it was nuts like John that kept John in the Republican party?
“I’m a schizophrenic.. And so am I..”
Anderson
This letter appears to be a fabrication?
Another bit of news, Steve: Jonathan Swift was only kidding about eating Irish babies.
Love your preemptive comment, Cole. And I confess I hadn’t thought about the “oh, there’s Daddy” problem. Still, if the alternative to seeing Daddy on page one is not knowing about Daddy for the weeks it takes to get the news out, maybe there are worse things.
John Cole
Steve:
Wow. I mean just wow.
Neil: It is the reason WHY they want the photos shown, not that they want them shown. You did follow the links, didn’t you?
Steve
“Sure, let’s show the dead floating bodies…. only if we can show the images of dire inner city NOLA poverty that rampant liberalism has been breeding for 40 years. Deal?”
How exactly is this the liberals fault?
poverty existed in New Orleans long before 40 years ago.
Tim F
One could ask what has been the policy for previous American tragedies? The ’06 San Francisco earthquake, WWII, Vietnam? If printing dead bodies has always been somewhat verboten then so be it. If this is new then I have a hard time sharing John’s outrage.
Given the hysterically desperate spinning operation coming out of the White House I think it would be criminally stupid not to even meet them at the chessboard.
You want to get angry at politicizing tragedy, super. I’m right there with you. But for god’s sake let’s stop with the pretending that The Left (capitalized, of course) can even begin to compete with the pros in the administration.
Stormy70
B-B-B-BUSH! {Tourettes kicks in}
Mike S
Dear Katrina Victims,
We believe that the scope of this calamity should be hidden from the public. Our first concern is the viability of the Republican Party and our dedication to starving governmental agencies. If the public were to see the devistation wrought by our slow response our fear is that our dreams of a premanent Republican majority would be dashed.
Therefore we will be doing everything possible to keep the press at bay. We will make sure that we control the information. We have worked hard to ensure that everything we do remains a closely held secret, and will continue to do so in the future. Please forget all of the instances where we made claims only to have them disproven by facts. Obviously we would NEVER do that again, except for our hiding of the vast amount of photos from Abu Ghraib.
Please remember that we do this for the benefit of the party, which as we all know is more important than the country. Your help in any possible white wash is greatly appreciated.
Without a shred of personal responsibility or accountability,
The GOP
BinkyBoy
Well, we wouldn’t want any Republican’s to worry their pretty little brains after seeing the real effects of this tragedy, now would we?
Davebo
John,
What was the reason why Sterling Newberry wanted the pictures shown? And more importantly, how did you manage to divine it?
neil
You smeared Stirling Newberry for saying: “That’s right, an entire city is going to be erased from the map, and you are not going to be allowed to see it.”
You smeared Oliver Willis for saying something similar, while insinuating that the decision was made for political cover (a suspicion which, I’m afraid, is backed-up by recent history).
They want the photos shown for the same reason that the journalists do, I imagine: so that the event can be accurately chronicled for history. They are afraid that the event will fail to be chronicled because Karl Rove thinks it would be bad for Bush’s short-term popularity.
Now it’s my turn: what do you think was the reason that FEMA wanted firefighters to be a backdrop for Bush’s photo op even as rescue workers in New Orleans had been working for 3 days without a break?
Davebo
After all, why should Bab’s have to Worry her beautiful mind about some dead low lifes in Nawlins?
Anyone up for Bridge?
Stormy70
Really, John, I will not be able to go on reading this blog if you are going to defend Bush one time out of 25. WHEN are YOU going to ANSWER my QUESTIONS.
John Cole
Mike S:
The more the scope of the devastation is shown, the less people will ‘blame’ FEMA. You did read Davebo’s first comment, didn’t you.?
When all is said and done, and cooler heads look at this, it will be recognized that 99.99% of the victims of this disaster came from the hurricane and the flooding- hardly things that can be pinned on Bush and the GOP.
capelza
Not trying to stir up any shit, but are a lot of the people “expressing outrage” over bodies being shown the same that watched the beheading of Nick Berg because it was “important” to do so? It helped ratchet up the “outrage meter”. It helped them “know” how bad it really was. These are the reasons I was given when it was first showing up on the web.
This is not an attack on John Cole,but a broad response to some comments I have seen elsewhere. One side’s “outrage” is more acceptable? One side’s ghoulish behaviour is worse than the other? I won’t even go into the images that came from the tsunami this past year.
In some way, I do understand why some might find it hard to see, but are the families of these poor peope even watching TV? Are they showing it on the big screen in the Astrodome?
On the other hand, it is part of the tragedy that in this country, there are dead and bloated bodies lying in the street and in the water…apparantly some people refuse to believe it is “that bad”, like Byran on here last night, because he hadn’t “seen” the dead bodies…it must be an exaggeration.
John Cole
Follow the links.
BinkyBoy
Yes, Stormy would really like to know what Condi thinks of her new shoes and where to get the next set of “support the troops” booties for her cat.
Davebo
John,
Regarding you quote on my first comment. I’m afraid your ESP is still failing you.
Better stick to divining what Casey Sheehan would have wanted. Apparantly your skills only work on active duty military dead and not live veterans.
Nikki
Then it stands to reason that the photos SHOULD be shown. Or isn’t FEMA willing to take that gamble?
srv
A picture is worth a 1000 words, except in the Blogosphere.
Obviously, motivation and intention is still more important to many than reality is. Good luck with that.
Stormy70
Yes, I’m sure the evacuees will appreciate their loved ones decomposing corpse to be shown on TV. Let’s not give them the dignity of privacy, but use it to make a political point. Do you want to go there?
emily
Just because some people want to use photos of the storm victims to further their political cause does not mean that is the only purpose of showing those images. Call it a failure of imagination if you like, but seeing those pictures makes the impact more real for some people.
You wouldn’t want to forgo an investigation into FEMA’s response to the disaster because some will use the outcome for political gain, would you?
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
Liberal welfare programs were supposed to alleviate the poverty. They didn’t. So now we have poor people who are completely dependent upon govt. who never think to do something for themselves. I think that’s a problem.
I heard some of the poor didn’t evacuate because they were waiting for welfare checks. True or not, don’t you think it’s a problem that a segment of this country can’t afford bus fare to escape a hurricane? Liberal social programs were supposed to take care of this, but…….
BinkyBoy
Just a reminder: it took Bush 3 days to address the nation and to stop playing Magic Flute at Bandcamp and get his ass to work during this nation’s greatest natural disaster in my lifetime. He then used the opportunity to drag thousands of rescuers into a photo op. He is also the one that appointed “Brownie” to his position despite any evidence that he could handle the job.
How many people died while Nero fiddled and diddled?
Maureen Hay
There wouldn’t be the outrage over journalists being banned from the area if our government could be trusted to tell the truth about the situation.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
I just wanted add: social programs have exacerbated poverty, institutionalized it, made it generational.
Poverty will always exist but trying to cure it thru govt. intervention is far from a cure.
Oh, and Conservatives are just as guilty as Liberals in their support of social programs that hurt more than help.
Blue Neponset
ShitHurricanes HappenMike S
When all is said and done we should be looking at the cuts that were made to federal agencies who’s job used to be planning and assisting in protecting our people. People will see the pathetic response through out the region. I saw people on the news last night who said the only time they have seen any relief workers was when one got lost and stopped in their town to look at a map.
Ask yourself this. If, as you say, people would blame Bush and the administration less if they were to see all of it, why isn’t Rove making sure that every last picture is shown?
neil
The more the scope of the devastation is shown, the less people will ‘blame’ FEMA.
I think this is probably right.
hadenoughofthisyet
Just to get you up to speed. There is no more welfare. , In 1996 reform legislation replaced Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC or welfare) with Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF). It requres work in exchange for time-limited cash assistance.
So don’t worry, no more welfare queens driving around in Cadilliacs. We just have corporate welfare now.
Rome Again
So many blogs… so little time!
So long everyone. I came here because I enjoyed the individual voice that was John Cole; but that voice has now been silenced and his symbiote has one again taken control and caused him to rejoin the ranks of the “can do no wrong” right. There is too much going on now, and too many individuals starting to see the light for me to spend my time reading this GOP apologist crap. Bye!
Don
I’d be a lot more sympathetic to generous interpretation of this request if the fed tended to be at all open. Instead there’s fights over pictures of flag-draped coffins which cannot be at all connected with the identity of who is in them. The US press has a long history of discretion and restraint when it comes to pictures of the deceased even when they are not identifiable. Requesting video – which is much harder to vet – not be taken is one thing but still photos?
If FEMA had requested that the press be careful about revealing identifiable characteristics it would be one thing but no photos at all smacks of hiding.
Another Jeff
John,
It sort of surprises me that you’re still shocked by the stupidity and the mindless spewing of talking points that you get from a lot of these people.
I mean, Will Rogers would be proud of the lefties you have here, because they certainly ARE organized, and capable of spewing out whatever Kos and HoDean tell them.
Remember, John, if 100% of your posts aren’t about how Bush is 100% to blame for every single bad thing in the last five years, you’re a dupe and an apologist.
Mike S
Tom DeLay is doing his part.
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
And it’s just as bad and rotten to the core.
neil
Fuck you, Jeff, that is a malicious lie.
BinkyBoy
Its ok Jeff, because everytime it looks like John might be going too far right, we have far right wing psychopathic asshats like yourself to remind us just how far right he could still go.
Mike S
If the GOP worked half as well as the GOP message machine, they would have been drinking perrier at the convention center 4 hours after Katrina moved out of the area.
Get back to Pravda, err, FOX and find out what you are supposed to say next.
John G. Spragge
Oh,Boy.Stupidity! wrote:
Let’s see. Ronald Reagan ended most of the Great Society programs a quarter century ago. Bill Clinton ended the last federal New Deal entitlement (AFDC) a decade ago. Seems that welfare entitlements have baneful effect decades after their repeal, if you believe some conservatives.In fact, the weight of the evidence tends to discredit that particular meme. Consider Montreal, a city awash in entitlements, where citizens can count on welfare if they ned it and free cradle to grave health care; a city so divided between the descendants of the original francophone settlers, newer immigrants, and First Nations community that the federal government has had to dispatch troops twice in a generation. When a disastrous ice storm hit the Montreal area in 1998, devastating transportation and power, leaving millions with out heat, some for weeks, virtually no looting took place. Likewise, consider New York, arguably the American liberal capital; after 9/11, no widespread looting took place.Nope, blaming the welfare state for the New Orleans debacle just doesn’t fit the facts.
over it
Stormy, while I agree the BushBushBushBushBush folks are tiresome….someone else is a much better example of Tourette’s’esque behavior, don’tcha think? ;)
I have about reached the conclusion that EVERYONE is to blame at this point. Some more than others….but that can be figured out on down the road.
Have the Dutch offered their engineers as a form of aid yet? When all is said and done….sounds like they are the ones that will be the most help to us in preventing this from happening again.
The UMC down the street filled a semi last night….it may not seem like much, but it is a small church and we packed it tight.(looks like I am saying that the congregation is in the truck….don’t worry, they aren’t).
Churches and other groups all over the country…the world…are doing the same. Maybe more focus should be placed on them right now rather than on who is ‘to blame’.
Nelson Muntz
Stick to Kelo. You won’t look as much like an rethuglican orwellian dupe. You’ll sleep better at night, and you won’t wrinkle.
Don
No doubt FEMA’s motives are entirely pure and they’re not trying to hide anything.
MikeV
I still have great respect for John and I don’t think he’s a GOP apologist, but like RomeAgain, my initial reasons for making Balloon Juice one of my “daily must reads” have pretty much gone out the window, starting around the Sheehan fiasco and steadily deteriorating since.
The reason I think there’s such disconnect with John and a lot of his readers lately is because his main attractions, his independent spirit and moderation, are sometimes interrupted by his still partisan and right wing world view. Which actually isn’t really a fair criticism I suppose, since basically it’s bashing John for not being (what you would consider) PERFECT!
Anyone who’s really into politics almost kind of naturally slants one way or another, whether they’re generally fair and honest or not. John slants right, most of his readers (or posters) slant left. So if you’re reading Balloon Juice to have your Democratic world view reinforced, you’re likely to get bummed out occasionally because that’s not what John is, nor is it what he claims to be. So we shouldn’t be pissed for not getting what we shouldn’t have expected anyway. That’s kind of dumb.
GBCW@!!@@!@!@@#!@!
DonS.
Well, I’ve been a lurker on this blog for about three months, slogging through the comments. As a moderate to liberal type it was enlightening to read a more conservative viewpoint.
But I’ve decided that this blog has become indistinguishable from many other right-wing, hate-filled blogs. And the change has been led by Mr. Cole himself.
I’m removing this blog from my reading rotation. Perhaps I’ll check back in a few months to see if any sanity has penetrated the partisan fog.
Andrei
So wait a second… you are ready to concede that the natural part of the disaster couldn’t be avoided, then neglect to discuss the issue of why the part of the population that did not evacute was the poverty stricken black people of the city? Poverty has nothing to do with the GOP agenda in this country?
It seems quite clear that those that had the means got out in large numbers with only a few staying to ride it out. Those that didn’t have the means stayed behind in large numbers and got slammed. How many died because of the hurricane itself or because of the flooding is a question that even you can’t pin a number like 99.99% on yet, especially if you are going to ask people to wait for the facts to come in. (I’d wager the number of dead will come from the point after the levee broke, not before, but truth is, no one does know yet.)
However, to think the GOP and Bush don’t have a serious problem on their hands either way seems way off the mark. I think David Brooks even recognizes this for the GOP. The question, once cooler heads prevail, will largely revolve around why the poor and poverty in this country were either left behind to fend for themselves without having any real evacuation plan for them or left to survive for too long a period of time once the waters were rising after the levee broke. In that regard, the question is seriously important for Bush and the GOP because their policies and legislation have largely not been about the poor and poverty stricken in this country. Unless you think poor people need an estate tax cut. The GOP is not the party of the poor, and rarely has been.
The only thing that will save the GOP in its current form from this soon to be heavily discussed topic in the aftermath is the media unsaviness and lack of bold leadership in the Democrat party. Having Bush as a leader doesn’t scare nearly as much as watching the Dems die like a beached whale, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory time and time again.
gratefulcub
In many ways I agree that we can sort out who did what, later. There is plenty of blame to go around. Some of it will be on Bush, but it can wait.
But, we don’t need happy stories about the church groups quite yet either. They can be included, we all need a pick me up. There are so many people, doing incredible things, within and outside the government. Their stories will be told.
We do have to play part of the blame game NOW. This is a crisis, that is going to be followed by more problems. Some known, some unknown, some unknown unknowns.
-The city is turning toxic, and that water is being pumped into a lake.
-There could be another storm, and NO is now protected by a levee made of dirt and sand.
-We have a million refugees (what are we supposed to call them?)
The list goes on and on. We have to quickly examine who in the government is fit to lead the response to these upcoming issues. In my opinion, Brown and Chertoff have proven themselves unfit. And the top of FEMA appears to be filled with campaign managers without disaster or relief experience. They need to be led by the best in brightest in the field to cope with what’s coming. Chertoff and Brown may have done a great job, we need an investigation to find out, and we need it now.
It isn’t just a political ‘blame game.’ It is examining who is fit to continue, and who isn’t. And that is important.
If we can take picture or not – not a priority. There will be pictures taken. Most of the media will use discretion. In the grand view, it is insignificant.
hadenoughofthisyet
Let’s see. What is the definition of propaganda? Let’s check wikipedia:
Dontcha just love America!!
Matt
John, the “Bush is 100% to blame” meme is ridiculous, I agree. But the mismanagement of the situation by FEMA is hard to deny, and Michael Brown is, seemingly, a large contributor to that. I think that we can put Bush’s cronyism for a little more than .1% of the responsibility for the post-levee breach response, yes?
Vladi G
I’m re-posting neil’s earlier post. I wanna know, John. Why is so outrageous that you have to go out of your way to write a satirical response to a few bloggers who are tired of this administration hiding politically harmful information from the public, yet still no comment on how FEMA has decided to employ 1,000 firefighters as PR spokesmen for the administration, including diverting a good portion of those to be used as props in a photo opp. Can’t be bothered to comment on that, eh?
As an example of fucked up FEMA truly is, here is their defense of this policy:
So here we’ve just had what is probably the country’s biggest natural disaster in it’s history, and their response is to a) do P.R., and b) request that first responders in other parts of the country leave their jobs to volunteer to hand out flyers. What a bunch of assholes! I’m sure that if someone’s house in Utah were to burn down, they could be comforted by the fact that a couple of the guys who would normally have answered the call were busy repeating 1-800-621-FEMA over 1,000 miles away. They could hire a few parrots to do the same thing.
MikeV
Although that being said, this is exactly the kind of post that’s lessened the frequency of my visits here. Why do I have to read such sickening partisan garbage on Balloon Juice? Short answer: cause it’s your site. Fair enough, just saying’.
By the way, every time there’s a stir up between John and the readers, I’m always reminded of Kos and his readers, especially his “fuck you, it’s my site” policy. Which I respect, even though it still pisses me off sometimes.
Stormy70
Every little bit adds up, and what doesn’t seem like much to us, will make a great impact, none the less. Most of us can’t give a huge amount, but we can all give a little. We all may argue aboout politics, but I bet everyone here has donated something.
Saw Noah’s Wish on the news last night, so one of John’s charities are out there rescuing the animals. One kitty was behind the bumper, so they removed it to get to him. They are breaking in to houses to get the pets out, too.
Don
I said it before, I’ll say it again: the most terrifying thought I’ve heard expressed in this is “is this the quality of response we can expect after a terrorist incident too?” You can put that off onto the individual states if you want but then I want to know why DHS doesn’t have a program in place to examine the capabilities and quality of the state response. After all, huge amounts of federal money is flowing out for that so if it’s not being used wisely we all deserve to know about it.
ppGaz
The drumbeat of Bushist lies and strawman arguments continues unabated.
Nobody has claimed that Bush is to blame “for everything.”
What is claimed, and what is true, is that Bush is to blame for acting like Bush acted last week.
That is what Bush is to blame for. And that’s what he is being correctly bashed for.
All the rest of this crap in here is just …. crap.
Its purpose is to deflect from the truth of the situation.
Bush is going to be blamed for his sorry, incompetant behavior of last week, including his embarassing tv show on Friday, because that’s what he gave us, and that’s what went into the record. That record of that sorry, shameful performance is what he deserves to be tagged with, and will be tagged with.
BinkyBoy
Look, the American public in general is now aware that our federal government is in no means ready for another terrorist attack on this country.
Who is responsible for that readiness? Well, Dear Fucking Leader is responsible. He’s shown the least capability, the least awareness and the least amount of leadership for this disaster.
Its not the blame, its the sheer lack of clothes that the emperor is wearing. He’s the worst president this country could possibly have, and this is just a clusterfucked example of that, yet the apologists, such as Another Jeff, rush out to defend the little clown whenever they feel threatened, instead of looking at the evidence of his failure, they make shit up, find the barest examples of counter arguments and then leap about and shout “Gotcha” while looking ever the more foolish.
And then you have John, caught doing the same thing, just in lesser quantity, coming out with critical story after critical story, then leaping upon a small evidenciary link trail to shout at those damn “liberals” and screaming his outrage.
Its just a good thing I have all you Conservative posters to keep me liberal.
MikeV
Alright, for some reason, probably cause of the font, when I first read this post I thought it was an excerpt from another site, rereading it I realize it’s straight from John..so, yeah, count me disappointed. That’s some really sick stuff, John.
ppGaz
Yes, it’s called the “No controlling legal authority” defense, and I am going to hang that moniker on every example of it I see around here. The hypocrisy and mendacity of it is stunning …. but not surprising.
Matt
Amen, Don. And that buck eventually stops at the President. And if he is unwilling to hold any of his subordinates responsible (as his history would suggest he is), we, as his bosses, have every right to hold him responsible.
Otto Man
We agree that it’s a problem that a large segment of this country can’t afford bus fare. So tell, me — what exactly is the Republican solution? If you think liberal social programs have made things worse, what’s your alternative?
Another round of tax cuts for the rich and budget cuts? Because that’s where we seem to be heading. Bill Frist is trying to repeal the Estate Tax and replace it with the Paris Hilton Protection Act. That’ll sure help, right?
Another Jeff
Binky,
Learn to read, you worthless little tool.
in the post that obviously has your underoos all in a bunch, i mention “numerous Bush fuck-ups”. That’s not apologizing for anything.
You just babbled on and on for five paragraphs and all you did was prove my point. Nowhere did i defend Bush, yet you said I “rushed out and defended him”.
In some weird way, though, that’s the beauty of a lot of you twits. You just proved my point, proved that you can’t read, proved that you’re not capable of thinking on your own, yet you’re probably sitting there thinking you’re smart.
BinkyBoy
Yeah, its a virtual list of who’s responsible.
Another Jeff
Whoops, wrong post. I didn’t mention “numerous Bush fuck-ups” in that one. It was another one.
Still didn’t apologize for him, though.
Another Jeff
Show me where i apologized for Bush, binker.
I’ll give you $1000 if you do.
Shygetz
Even if he does hold his subordinates responsible, he’s the guy who hired them. He is the head of the executive branch; he gets his share of the credit when things go right, and his share of the blame when things go wrong in his branch. Thus far, Preznit “Personal Responsibility” Bush has been more than willing to take the credit, and less than willing to take the blame.
And John, I read those links. You pulled this post out of your ass, and I would hope that you are smart enough to know it. Not to mention that you cherry-pick what a few insignificant bloggers say on one side, and completely ignore what the leaders of the free world are pulling on the other. But you’re not an apologist, no, never.
Matt
Geez, even Hitchens is on the “Bush’s response was terrible” bandwagon, in the middle of his Why-Iraq-Is-Irrelevant article at Slate:
DougJ
Colie, you’re doing a heck of a job.
docG
Hey, Friends:
I hear FEMA is offering Club Shitmo t-shirts, featuring a picture of New Orleans on the front and Brownie on the back.
Could be just a rumor, though.
Trent
John,
THIS IS NOT THE FUCKING ARGUMENT!!!
We’re not blaming Bush for the fucking hurricane or for people dying!
We’re accusing Bush of having a incompetent, piss-poor, lackidasical response.
We’re accusing Bush of FAILING in his responsibilities to respond to a natural disaster.
We’re accusing Bush of appointing lackeys and cronies in positions of vital national importance.
We’re accusing Bush of focusing on photo ops rather than substantive action.
We’re accusing the entire Administration of staying on vacation while the nation’s worst disaster unfolded.
So, if you want to continue to pursue “winning” your argument that no one else is arguing, feel free. Because boy you’re persuasive!
If you’d like to reclaim your title as a fair-minded, rational conservative blogger, who isn’t afraid to call it like it is, we’d love to have you back.
Amazing how Intelligent Design works you into a rage but you seem thrilled as punch about Bush’s actions of the last 10 days.
Intelligent Design is starting to have more credibility than this blog.
Watcher
So the corpses to be that jumped from the towers are ok to show on tv again?
Yes, Yes that 13% you libs hold gives you the absolute moral authority to act outraged that I would even suggest such a thing.
hadenoughofthisyet
You know, those are my sentiments right about now. In the face of this human tragedy, I watch this administration muster all the resources available to the strongest, richest nation on earth…
and unleash…
a powerful spin and disinformation campaign.
And I am supposed to be okay with that? This administration is replete with examples where they manipulate the facts and information and they attempt to manipulate the news media to distort the facts. So call me hyperbolic.
This will be my last post.
DougJ
How many FEMA officials does it take to replace a lightbulb?
None, no one ever anticipated that the bulb would go out.
ppGaz
The muck will eventually recede from this place, and normal life will return. But at the moment, this place stinks to high heaven.
Oh, you thought I was talking about New Orleans?
Not.
Just Some Guy
I know two firefighters with disaster response training who are still waiting to go down to the Gulf Coast. They’ve been in close contact with other first responders down there who have basically said “don’t bother”. 10 days and no one can coordinate anything better than a pamphlet campaign (oh, and photo ops) for emergency rescue volunteers.
slide
prohibiting the photographing of Katrina’s destruction
prohibiting the release of photos from Abu Garib
prohibiting the sight of flag draped caskets from Iraq
prohibiting soldiers from expressing themselves on blogs
prohibiting us from seeing Robert’s memos
prohibiting us from seeing Bolton’s memos
prohibiting us from seeing who was on Cheny’s energy committee
prohibiting us from seeing who was at fault at the CIA
prohibiting … I can go on and on and on and on and on
Bushsonian Democracy in full blossom.
Krista
Thank you! That’s exactly what most of us have been trying to say. Unfortunately, everybody tends to focus on the more provocative, extreme statements, and then everything gets blown out of context.
Nobody’s saying that Bush is 100% at fault here. However, to claim that he bears NO responsibility at all…well, how can the head of the federal government bear no responsiblity for the slow response of a federal agency?
Even if FEMA had taken just as long, I don’t think people would be vilifying Bush as much if he had shown true leadership, grasped the gravity of the situation right away, and gotten to work on the problem immediately. Effort counts for a lot…and he has really just seemed to be half-assed at this whole thing.
DJAnyReason
John Cole sez:
Uhh… so 1 out of every 10,000 deaths can be attributed to anything but the hurricane or flood? Which is like… I dunno, 1, 2 at the most (well, hopefully), that died due to slow response time. Yeah, that sounds about right.
Look, I know its hyperbole, but try to wratchet it down into something even remotely resembling reality, mmm’kay?
Tim F
Cole got sick of the people like Albanese who attacked anything he said so he decided to give them some real rightwing commentary for awhile. Why do I think so? He did the same thing with Plame.
A lot of us came here when John got fed up with the pubbies over Schiavo. When the whole world seems dark it’s a damned good feeling to see reasonable people ‘over there’ start to recognize what’s going on. Unfortunately some of us forgot that hating Bush doesn’t automatically make you a kossack. The folks who expected, nea demanded it will disappear in a huff and balance will be achieved without needing to ban anybody.
Anyway, that’s how I see it.
slide
John Cole:
A very ignorant or willfully false statement.
Watcher
How dare you not feel that hate for Bush that these fine folks do Cole? Can you not see their outrage is based on the firmly grounded reality of a very small elitist minority of ‘patriotic’ Americans?
Why will you not feed their self-delusional rantings? Why must you have a cooler head that will examine the facts as they come in? Why will you not see that showing the bodies will help their cause?
You evil rethuglican mouthpiece you!!!!! I demand that you prop up my worldview by allowing us to turn this into another Kos or Atrios.
capelza
TimF..Thank you! I have been trying to formulate a similar response. John Cole posts something that the left disagrees with (including me), and the “left” gets in a huff because, suprise, a Conservative blogger shows that he is still..a Conservative. Will getting John Cole to issue some mea culpa make all the difference? Will browbeating him at his own home change the poltical landscape?
Tim F
That said I don’t actually think much of the commentary has been that rightwing. Seriously, that last post mostly just demanded that people wait for the dust to clear before making up their minds. That attitude might seem a bit dated at this point given that the NY Post and Washington Times have pretty much called for FEMA on a pike, but overall it still counts as reasonable.
Mostly it seems like people are angry about sins of omission. How can you be angry about A and not angry about B? What about the firefighters? etc. The firefighters thing is already all over the blogosphere and in the MSM so here at B-J it has the appearance of demanding that a monkey dance. I know every blogger puts up with that nuisance every day of the week, but still.
SayUncle
At least Ollie signed his screed correctly with Scum.
capelza
That said…this particular “letter” is quite shrill…:)
Trent
So conservatives believe in failing to respond to a national emergency? Conservatives believe in half-assing their responsibility to protect the nation? Conservatives believe in cronyism?
Maybe someone should inform this guy.
Tim F
Tell me that you didn’t know already that John hates leftist firebrands. My only question is whether restricting the press is normal in American emergencies. If so then so be it. If not, then once again Bush sets a depressing new precedent.
BTW, links: Washington Times. New York Post.
Trent
And you were calling for cooler heads during the Monica Lewinsky ordeal?
Retief
On the other hand, news photographs may be the one and only chance these people have to identify their dead relatives. If these corpses have been floating for a while I think you’d want a photographer there ASAP. It’s not like we have the capacity to bring the refugees by to check all the bodies or bring the bodies to the scattered refugees, photos may be the best we can do, and if not via the news then perhaps some enterprising blogger will set up wheresmydeadgranny.com. Of course, then we’d need internet access for those who are missing relatives but at least the evidence would no longer be disapearring, so we could solve that one at our leisure.
Reflexive belief that FEMA is wrong is a little silly but no more so than reflexive belief that FEMA is right here. And the belief that Bush tries to hide bad news is simple experience.
Tim F
I think that some of it is wait-and-seeism, which I can’t really blame, and some of it is trying to piss us off. I agree that several conservative bloggers have run ahead of John on this one, but after Schiavo and Plame and abu Ghraib I think he’s earned the benefit of the doubt.
Mike S
As opposed to the firmly grounded cult worship of people like you?
I don’t blame John Cole for not reacting like I am. He and I have a very different view of Government. I don’t begrudge him any opinion because more often than not he is a reasonable man. If there were more like him in the New Republican Party this country would be in much better shape.
I thrive on debate and compromise. The country used to as well. But the new GOP does not. As a matter of fact the article a few weeks back about the religious right’s classes in DC said that compromise was a sin. And by the looks of it that suits you just fine.
Watcher
Shades of ‘they are hiding the bodies’ that we saw after Andrew?
Geek, Esq.
So, it’s okay for Bush to fly firefighters in to serve as props for his photo op, but it’s not okay for people to demand that the full horror of what’s in NO be revealed?
You do know that FEMA is headed up by Bush campaign and PR officials, right? I’m sure that has nothing to do with their response . . .
Watcher
Thats right Mike S. Let the hate run through you. Debate is not necessary when you are talking about those evil GOP bastards. Feed it so that no reasonable argument that points you away from your view of the ‘other’ can creep in. Do not be fooled by rules or laws or reason. Bask in the soft warm glow of liberalism. Understand that your responsibility for your fellow man ends when you pay your taxes.
Laughing at you we are.
Mike S
Is Watcher vying for the biggest idiot on the board? There’s some awefully stiff competition for ya.
Cool, a Star Wars geek no less.
Watcher
Yes, Yes, how dare the GOP point out that the first response in any disastor must be local. How dare they take away from the reflexive hatred of Bush that feeds the current crop of liberals. It is shameful that they responded to the loose shit accusations coming from the left. After all, responding to accusations cannot be allowed if we are to keep the hate breeding.
How dare they squash the dissent of the small minority who really knows what’s going on in this country. Insert dean scream here.
ppGaz
What are you, Yoda?
“Laughing at you.” That’s the Bush way. Laugh at the WMDs. Laugh about New Orleans and Trent Lott’s porch and what a great job Brownie is doing, while people are swimming in shit right down the road.
You are a funny, funny bunch of people, all right.
Otto Man
Make sense please.
Watcher
That almost sounds reasonable, if I didn’t know that you would shield your leftist brothers from that ‘title’. You have failed, yet again, and everyone not involved in the Bush hating circle-jerk can see it.
ppGaz
What is “conservative” about propping up a vile little man like George Bush?
Barry Goldwater was a conservative, and he would have flicked George Bush off his shoes like a dog turd.
George Bush is a nasty little man who jokes around and calls the head of the most laughed-at and despised agency in the world “Brownie” on television while people are swimming around in shit just down the road.
What the fuck is “conservative” about that?
Watcher
Otto Man
Around 13% of the country is liberal. The latest poll numbers indicate that this is the same number who feel that the blame for this disaster should go to Bush.
Krista
I think we’d all do well to remember this, everybody. Being right doesn’t automatically make the other person wrong. Everybody here has valid opinions, and should be able to debate them intelligently, and with respect for each other, instead of engaging in name-calling, or trying to put people into convenient little categories (i.e. left, right, wingnut, etc.)
Steve
Stupidity wrote: “Liberal welfare programs were supposed to alleviate the poverty. They didn’t. So now we have poor people who are completely dependent upon govt. who never think to do something for themselves. I think that’s a problem.”
You know, that’s an interesting question. I was looking at the US Census Dept’s statistics on poverty, and from the surface you’re right… It does not appear to me that the numbers have changed dramatically.
But then notice this…
“Noncash benefits (such as food stamps and housing subsidies) do not count.” This is in reference to calculating earnings…
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/povdef.html
So I’m not sure how we can claim these programs did not work, because we don’t appear to be calculating whether the programs really lift people out of poverty.
“I heard some of the poor didn’t evacuate because they were waiting for welfare checks. True or not, don’t you think it’s a problem that a segment of this country can’t afford bus fare to escape a hurricane? Liberal social programs were supposed to take care of this, but…….”
Uhh, wow. I just don’t know what to say to such stupidity.
There was a supposition that some poor didn’t have any money left to use to evacuate, because it was near the end of the month and they’d receive checks on the 1st.
That’s not terribly surprising. When I was making shit for wages, back in the day… I actually got paid at the 1st of the month which I’d then go use to pay all my bills. What was left over, I’d buy groceries for the month, and leave some amount for spending money.
Now, I had a credit card, in the event of unforseen circumsstances, but we could reasonably assume that most poor do not have that.
I just don’t understand what your solution is. If you were suggesting a FDR/CCC style program where we hired people to do things… you know, that I could probably sign up for.
But this suggestion that if we stop giving people money, that this is somehow going to solve their problem of not having any money. That makes no sense. Preferably, it would be nice if private industry stepped up to the plate and hired people at living wages. Thus far, they have not done so, and Republicans have continued to fight efforts to help make that happen.
Just interesting. This is my problem with Republicans. I’m not much of a believer in Welfare, but the Republicans really don’t offer any solutions other than to draw the country back to a time when people lived in abject poverty. I just don’t see what that solves.
You see, my family used to live in poverty. My grandparents received government aid during the depression. I’ve got some family pictures that show things the way they were back then, along with stories from letters and such as well. Things weren’t better. They are better now. I would even argue that those today living in poverty or close to it today, aren’t as bad off as they could be. They’re certainly better off than my grandparents were back in 1931.
The 20th century has netted a tremendous gain to the United States standard of living, despite all the whining by Republicans about unions, welfare, EPA and other programs. I think it’s clear at this point that history has shown you to be completely wrong.
The question really is, what’s the proper balance between spending and achievement. Republicans 50 years ago realized that. The wingnuts today are just out of touch with reality.
Watcher
Anyway.
Let the hate keep showing, it makes it so much easier to defeat you morons in the next elections. CYA.
Steve
Oh, and John Cole. I’m still waiting for a link to this supposed letter.
I’ve seen some discussion about news photography, and it has nothing to do with disrespect for the corpse of loved ones. Rather it has to do with an argument of whether to hide or highlight bad news.
As an American, I believe in full disclosure. Bad or not, I don’t care what party it effects. I say get the details out there, and then we can properly address the problem with solutions. Hiding because the bad news makes you uncomfortable is the trait of a coward.
You’re not a coward, are you John?
Trent
It’s no longer a question of liberal vs conservative. It has become Liberal vs Party Idoltry.
The Right is no longer motivated by ideals and principles. They’re motivated with winning at any cost. They’ll bend their arguments around like a pretzel to win, while liberals… Well, i’m not going to paint them as the pure idealists, but i do think that they try to maintain a degree of philosophical consistency.
I’m sure there are some real conservatives out there. I was one 10 years ago and clearly understand and respect what drives it. But a real conservative would have a number of problems with the Bush administration. Goldwater certainly wouldn’t approve of this insanity.
Pat Buchanan is certainly a real conservative. He’s always stood up for what he believes without flaying in the political wind too much. He can be a nut job sometimes, but compared to Coulter and the gang, he’s quite rational.
Believe me, i don’t resent people for having conservative views. At this point, i encourage them. I just want them to usurp the Party Loyalty that has infected the entire Republican Party and allowed the Administration get away with to the core corruption.
How can people so enthusiastically support an Administration that really doesn’t stand for what you believe?
Mike S
Watcher, isn’t there a cult meeting starting about now? Run on over and get your new talking points. Your old ones are getting stale.
Narvy
Or anywhere else.
dave
The Bush Legacy: Ineptitude – Indifference – INCOMPETENCE!
Trent
Not Yoda, how about Watcher = Darrell?
ppGaz
Suspicious, we are.
Trent
Same style…
Otto Man
Actually, the CNN poll you’re referring to has “Bush” and “federal agencies” as two separate categories, ones that combine for 31% of respondents’ choices. Since Bush is the head of those federal agenices, it seems odd to divorce the two.
There’s a rally-round-the-president effect in all disasters. When the waters recede and people look at this more closely, those numbers will go up.
Krista
Getting back to the actual original topic of this thread, I don’t really think that a lot would be accomplished by letting journalists photograph corpses. They probably wouldn’t be useful for identification purposes at this point (not to be gross). However, where the government has a habit of quashing information that might hurt it, I can see why people would be suspicious about what’s being hidden.
If we knew that the journalists would use these photos responsibly, then that would be one thing. But unfortunately, so much in the media is sensationalized now. (I think 24-hour news channels are much to blame for this, but that’s another topic.)
Vlad
Avoiding all the stupid partisan crap in this thread (including the stupid partisan crap in Mr. Cole’s initial post), I think it’s important to photograph all aspects of the recovery effort, including the disposition of corpses. Having pictures of the process will be necessary to establish a historical record of the tragedy and its aftermath. Just think what would’ve happened if people had been banned from documenting WWII events like the discovery of concentration camps or post-Bomb Hiroshima. They would’ve become unverifiable, and to one degree would’ve faded from public consciousness, to our loss. People need to be able to see what’s happened, or there won’t be any impetus to do a better job next time.
I do think that it’s important to treat any images involving American corpses respectfully, and I’d object to running an image containing an identifiable body without the consent of the victim’s next of kin.
Davebo
She related that she had urged Bush at the White House on Tuesday to fire Michael Brown.
”He said ‘Why would I do that?”’ Pelosi said.
”’I said because of all that went wrong, of all that didn’t go right last week.’ And he said ‘What didn’t go right?”’
”Oblivious, in denial, dangerous,” she added.
http://nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Katrina-Washington.html?hp&ex=1126152000&en=4af1952a8a967c88&ei=5094&partner=homepage
I’d say Pelosi is on target.
over it
What I keep seeing is the far end of one side saying All The Blame is Bush’s…..and the far end of the other saying Bush Is Blameless. Both are wrong. Though, honestly, I have seen more of the Bush Is Blameless than the All The Blame is Bush’s.
Ironically, if you go through the comments…it is the Bush Is Blameless folks that type All The Blame Is Bush’s(or some variation) the most. They do so when presenting their interpretation of what other commenters are saying. This interpretation is usually wrong.
In fact…Is there anyone that has been commenting here that believes that this is All Bush’s Fault?
Has anyone commented to that effect outright?
I, for one, am in the There are many to Blame Including Bush camp. I do not think that I am alone in this belief.
Pointing fingers right now, though, I feel does little good. There should be(and I hope will be) a reckoning…..and those accountable should(will?) be held fully responsible for their roles.
Uh..yeah…I do not know if any of that made sense..but, whatever.
Vladi G
Based on John’s reaction to the latter, and his refusal to even so much as make a small comment on the former, I’d say it would be fair infer that this is what he believes.
Geek, Esq.
If Pelosi’s account is accurate, Bush shouldn’t be impeached–he should be institutionalized.
Narvy
That’s a joke, right?
I can’t see that having news photos of the bodies would achieve anything worthwhile, unless one thinks turning all of the MSM into the Weekly World News is worthwhile.
But lest my raving liberal credentials be called into question, I do think photographs of flag-draped military coffins should be published. (I know, some were given to the press, but we have a policy prohibiting it.)
Trent
Personally, the reason for my intense anger over Bush’s culpability is that he has the least excuse.
He’s the President. He can get anything done with a phone call. (We all know about this administration’s view of executive authority.) He has all the resources in the country at his disposal.
What happened to moving heaven and earth?
On top of that, he was re-elected under the claim that he would protect the country. And he failed. Miserably.
Narvy
I thought this discussion was about publication in current-news nedia.
John Cole
This is what I don’t get. Why would images of people who drowned in New Orleans ‘HURT’ the government? I am supposed to assume that images of the dead in Mississippi are going to ‘hurt’ Haley Barbour? Or Riley in Alabama?
All FEMA did was say they would like to treat the dead with some degree of dignity, and when we say we are treating the dead with dignity, we are actually doing that for the LIVING. The dead don’t give a shit.
What disgusted me was the crap that came from the people I LINKED TO- the ones claiming this is part of a cover-up, because they are convinced the victims of a natural disaster will somehow ‘HURT’ the ‘government.’
It is absurd, it is gruesome, and there is no need to show bloated, decaying, corpses that have been soaking and baking in the sun, half eaten by animals, etc.
No purpose whatsoever.
Trent
Boooo.. to Davebo who messed up the web page’s width with his super long link.
Use an anchor field next time. ;-)
(Especially when this site has the SLICKEST comment interface out there. If you haven’t, click on the arrow button above the comment textbox.)
Mike S
Are you asking them to give up their greatest weapon? Straw is far too important to them.
Like I said last night, I’d like to see Nagin, Blanco and Barbour voted out of office. But I have no way to hold them accountable. Only their constituents can do that. But the fed government is accountable to me, and I will hold them to account.
over it
Did I miss something? I thought that the ‘letter’ was written by John….as a sarcastic dig to the guys listed at the end of it(I do not know who they are…..my guess is editorial writers or bloggers).
Am I wrong on this?
Narvy
A question for Bush-bashers and Bush-basher-bashers:
I wrote in another thread that the President is directly responsible only for his own actions. But as the Chief Executive of the United States and the Commander-in-Chief of the miltary, exactly what is he not incharge of?
ppGaz
MAYBE IF THEY SHOWED THE SAME URGENT CONCERN FOR THEIR DIGNITY WHEN THEY WERE ALIVE, people would cut them some goddam slack.
Do ya think? Brownie, heckuva job, man!
Jesus H Christ.
Vlad
“I thought this discussion was about publication in current-news nedia.”
The request was not that the media refrain from using photos (a point with at least some merit), but rather that the media refrain from taking photos at all. If photojournalists can’t document the situation, who will? Future historians after the discovery of the time-scoop?
Krista
I could be wrong on this, but I think it could hurt them via public opinion. People are already upset and shocked about this tragedy. Emotions are running high. And a lot of that emotion is being vented in the form of blaming those responsible for dropping the ball. Whether you think that’s the right response or not, it’s still what a lot of people are thinking. So if everybody’s all worked up, and pointing fingers, and looking for someone’s head on a platter, and if there is ALREADY a lot of blame being put on the federal government…well, if anybody sees those photographs, the emotions are going to get that much stronger, and people are going to get a lot louder.
Just a theory.
Otto Man
Maybe because it puts a human cost on the screw-ups made by the government at all levels — local, state, and yes federal.
I’ve seen countless images of flooded streets and damaged homes, but that shot of a bloated body being gnawed at by a dog? That shocked me more than anything else. That showed just how far-flung and far-reaching the damage is, that there are still bodies just lying around in fields like a disaster movie, a full nine days after the storm. That made it clear that there’s a real vacuum of leadership and, all of the president’s soundbites to the contrary, things aren’t all well.
And the former campaign PR officials over at FEMA may not know how to do their current jobs, but they clearly remember how to do the old ones. And that’s why they’re clamping down on the photos. Not out of respect for the lives of survivors, but out of hope that they’ll survive the aftershocks themselves.
You may not think the photos serve a purpose, but I think they do — they remind people that there’s real, widespread suffering there. More than any litany of numbers might do, they remind us all that there’s a real cost here. And I think we’re grown-up enough to face that reality.
Mike S
This administration has reacted to this type of thing in two ways. If something is going to hurt them they make sure the info does not get out. If it is going to help them they make sure it gets out including declassifying stuff as fast as possible.
You are asking me to trust an administration that has shown that they will hide anything damaging. I am saying that they have given me zero reason to trust them or their stated motives.
Vladi G
That’s all well and good, and I don’t necessarily disagree with you. But I think it’s my decision to make for me, and your decision to make for you. I don’t think it’s FEMA’s decision to make for any of us.
Cyrus
Watcher Says:
So the corpses to be that jumped from the towers are ok to show on tv again?
Yes, Yes that 13% you libs hold gives you the absolute moral authority to act outraged that I would even suggest such a thing.
I’m sure this will be hard for you to understand, and I think it says a LOT about your worldview that you need to be told this, and I HOPE you do not speak for most of the right wing, but moral authority does not come from strength in numbers.
And Jeff,
from dictionary.com:
a·pol·o·gist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-pl-jst)
n.
A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution.
You’re saying that Bush’s opponents are stupid and mindlessly spew talking points. I don’t see how that is anything other than defending him. Granted, just calling names doesn’t amount to an “argument,” but…
(Incidentally, I would not apply the same to John Cole, partly because he, both on the hurricane and on other issues, has come down against the administration often. You, as far as I can remember, have never written something that added up to be nicer to Bush’s opponents than to Bush. By that standard, off the top of my head, I suppose I’m an apologist for the left around here, but let’s both of us be honest about it.)
But I haven’t been calling Cole names mostly because it’s his blog. You don’t like it, leave, and writing posts explaining why you’re leaving and how this has gone downhill looks twice as pompous as I’ve been in my life.
And finally, about calling Oliver Willis et al. ghoulish and opportunistic in your original post, John – maybe if the media was identifying bodies, you’d have a point. But as far as I’ve noticed (correct me if I’m wrong) that’s happened rarely if at all, we’re just seeing them covered up, floating face down, etc. A lot of peoples’ tender sensibilities are being hurt by this, but that’s acceptable if not downright required. People seeing dead friends and relatives on TV before they hear from friends/the government? It would be terrible, but it’s a nonissue unless it’s happening.
And sure, the feds are well within their rights to make the media stay out of rescue boats. I don’t think they should, but nitpicking that is ridiculous. It would be like requiring journalists embedded in combat units. But “We have requested that no photographs of the deceased be made by the media?” I can’t imagine a reason for that other than a shameless PR decision to keep people ignorant of just how bad this was.
Nate
Yep, this is where I get off the bus as well. I have come to this blog for some informed (though right-ward slanted) commentary and observation, but when our host applauds jettisoning the 1st Amendment (though don’t touch the 2nd!) and supporting an administration that revels in secrecy and absolutely controls all the information it can (where are the next set of Abu Ghraib photos?), I find I have many, many, many better things to do.
My only comfort is that, as usual, John knows he’s on the wrong and un-American end of this argument. Never stopped him before, though.
BinkyBoy
John,
when all of the “independent” investigations are done, I feel that one of the end findings will be that due to gross incompetence by FEMA -> Bush some number X people died. Cholera, disentary, etc take their toll, and the sluggish way in which the response started most likely will result in a significant number of dead. So if those images are shown, and some percentage of those bodies are due to the incompetence of Brownie, Bush and Jerkoff, won’t that hurt the Republicans?
I’m just trying to find some sort of answer. I’m not sure thats true, just what those bloggers may be alluding to.
Pug
I’m no Bush apologist and I agree nothing good will come of showing the bloated corpses of dead New Orleaneans. In fact, I’ve already seen some floating corpses on the cable news. There’s no point in dwelling on it.
Sure, let’s show the dead floating bodies…. only if we can show the images of dire inner city NOLA poverty that rampant liberalism has been breeding for 40 years. Deal?
This is such BS. I think “dire inner city NOLA poverty” started a little more than 40 years ago. I’m just guessing here, but two hundred years of slavery followed by one hundred years of Jim Crow might have also had some impact. It’s what you call a legacy.
What a stupid ass thing to say. Statements like that are caused by rampant moronism.
FastMovingCloud
“Liberal bloggers call for journalists to be allowed to photograph dead bodies: An unconscionable outrage”
It sure would be, if it were true. Your friend John Cole, made the whole damn thing up!
Vladi G
He made up the letter. He made up the sentiment. He didn’t make up the basic facts.
Andrei
Yes, there is a purpose, to understand the scope of the tragedy, especially in our comfort obessed world right now. You may think that is not a good enough reason, but in a society that prides itself on freedom of the press, all information, no matter how gruesome, has purpose and should not be squelched just because it makes many of us retch.
It’s the same purpose that we view photographs of the piles upon piles of dead Jews from the Holocaust. The same purpose the photo of a Vietnamese commander shooting a hand-cuffed prisoner point blank in the forehead. The same purpose we see a little girl running, screaming from the atom bomb blast in Hiroshima while the flesh burns and slides off her body.
It’s history and photographs have a way of recording history that no amount of written record can. There is always a purpose for what some reporters are trying to do right now in wake of the New Orleans tregedy. To deny that seems emotional and irrational, John.
Having said that, I think FEMA obviously has every right to tell reporters they will not becoming on the boats with them due to logistical purposes and out of respect for the dead they are collecting. Many in the media are savvy enough to find other ways to record the event for the purpose of history, so in that regard, they are on their own in having to find a way to do their job.
But reporters and photographers do have a purpose, and it’s important they do their job for the sake of recording what has happened so those in future generations have a memory of what can happen when grave mistakes are made.
Don
Moral authority comes from percentages now? Cool, the no-abortion-ever camp will now have to STFU forever since >50% are for it. Oh wait, that’s not how moral authority or free speech works, is it?
As far as nutjob conspiracy folk, well, both sides have em. I don’t see how – given the last few years of mistreatment scandals and secret zero-oversight TSA no-fly name lists of terrorist babies – you can find it unreasonable when suspicion is the result of the fed asking for information blackouts.
Suspicion of the mainstream media showing identifiable photos of victims is completely without reason. Newspapers and networks have consistently erred on the side of caution when showing violent or revealing photos. TV news cuts away from jumpers when they can and never rebroadcasts it when they can’t. Have inappropriate images ever leaked out? Sure. Is there every indication they show discretion and restraint above and beyond what the Pentagon et all do? Yes.
Here’s another odd FEMA moment described. The guy is real nice about it but my response is “why is there anywhere press can’t go? What’s the secret?” Sure, there are things related to personal privacy the press doesn’t need to be privy to, but the suggestion that there’s complete latitude on the part of FEMA to decide what is and is not free for the world to know I find questionable. Last I looked I was paying for their services.
chadwig
Hear no evil, See no evil, Speak no evil. You have no conscience. Hiding corpses will not save your puppetmaster John, the truth is coming out at long last and you sticking your finger in the dike of reality will not save your Dear Leader from being drown by it.
It’s too late for you John, time to jump the bandwagon.
pleonastic piranha
i’m of two minds about this, and i think they could both be accomodated.
if i were missing a person i care about, i would want to know whether they’re dead, as soon as possible. i don’t require somebody to knock at my door and tell me in what they think is a sensitive manner; i just want to KNOW. and i’ve seen dead bodies that have floated in water for a while; i am not particularly squeamish — my imagination is almost always worse than reality.
i also don’t believe that the consequences of a catastrophe should be hidden from people. how can we learn if we’re not being told and shown the truth?
i realise however, that for many people seeing the bloated body of a loved one on CNN would be severely traumatic.
so, make it an opt-in system. have every body found photographed, and have those photographs accessible to the public. don’t splash it over the front pages of CNN et al, but make it accessible from there. those who don’t want to find out like this don’t need to look. those who want to know, can find out.
scanner
You mean photos like this:
http://www.kevinsites.net/
Oh, sorry, them’s furriners we can show them
Narvy
That’s a point, but is there any reason to believe that the pictures would not be published? After all, they are photo Journalists.
RW
Tough to know if the letter actually ever existed. The source in the link tends to scrub archives when they later prove embarrassing.
Filed under “cowardice”
Steve S
Given how Republicans have behaved in the past, treating us to endless discussions about blowjobs and other things in the public square… I think it’s fair to say that they have no sense of decency.
Therefore it’s not unreasonable to assume that the reason FEMA is making this demand is for something other than what they are saying.
There’s a shocker. It wouldn’t be the first time… *cough* Iraq *cough* WMD *cough*
RW
Yeah, blowjobs in the public square was SOOOO the fault of the Republicans, wasn’t it? And that damn Jack Ryan forced the Chicago Trib, that later endorsed Obama, to go to court to force open his divorce proceedings, further illustrating the GOP’s lack of decency. Add in that the party pays Duncan Black, Kos and americablog to out the sexual history of Republicans in hopes of “outing” a gay, and you’re spot on in saying that they “have no sense of decency”.
Pretty soon, they’ll have party poster boy Larry Flynt offering a million dollars to anyone willing ot dish sexual dirt about politicians, all to ZERO CONDEMNATION from anyone in the party (and I mean, anyone).
Nah, not even they could go that low.
DougJ
So you’re happy that guns are being pointed at members of the media now, huh, Colie.
Like I said, you’re doing a heck of a job.
ET
Part of me says no pictures. Another part of me want the who nighmare photographed if for no other reason that city/state officials in other places see it and go NOT IN MY TOWN/STATE. I want something positive to come from this utter freakin’ nightmare. And if that is that other states and cities are cognizant of what can happen with a complete and utter breakdown of society and take pains to prepare and plan ahead of time then hopefully they handle their situation better than NO and the Mississippi Gulf Coast.
Of course none of those are my relatives, friends, neighbors – if they were I might feel differently.
Redleg
Oh,Boy.Stupidity- yeah, like the free market has cured poverty. Go read another Ayn Rand book.
Speaking of “liberal” policies, many of the New Deal policies helped many Americans survive the Depression. Liberal policies, such as G.I. bill made it possible for veterans to afford college.
FastMovingCloud
“It sure would be, if it were true. Your friend John Cole, made the whole damn thing up!
He made up the letter. He made up the sentiment. He didn’t make up the basic facts.”
Funny, the same thing was true of the CBS memos during the election and you guys went batsh–t crazy over a typeface! You know Bush ditched service and you know he was a party animal that only joined the National Guard to avoid active duty. But, you didn’t want to hear about the basic facts then. It was all about an IBM typewriter. Double standards.