This is something to be hopeful about:
Estimates of the death toll from Hurricane Katrina have run as high as 10,000 but the actual body count so far is much lower and officials who feared the worst now hope the dire predictions were wrong.
The recovery of Katrina’s victims speeded up in the last two days. As of Thursday, Mississippi had recorded 201 deaths and Louisiana 118, while other affected states had much lower numbers.
Searchers are now going door-to-door in New Orleans neighborhoods where the water has fallen enough for a look inside flooded homes. In Mississippi teams have been recovering bodies since hours after the storm struck on Monday last week.
The results in both places have encouraged some officials to hope the body count may not reach the predicted heights.
“I am thinking we are better off than we thought we’d be,” said Louisiana state Sen. Walter Boasso, who represents St. Bernard Parish near New Orleans, parts of which still sit under 8 feet of water.
The authorities are ready in case the total sharply rises.
A small glimmer of hope.
John Boucher
Something else to be hopeful about, further erosion in Bush’s standing with the American people. New AP POll shows the Little President’s approval falling to 39%:
Overall, do you approve, disapprove or have mixed feelings about the way George W. Bush is handling his job as president?
Approve 39% (was 42%)
Disapprove 59% (was 55%)
Mixed feelings 1% (was 2%)
Not sure 1% (was x)
Mixed feelings 1%
Bush is an incompetent and unworthy president, and it looks like the vast majority of Americans now knows it.
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050909/ap_on_re_us/katrina_poll_method_1
Demdude
He still retains his base with that number. I believe below 35% starts to erode his base support.
Correct?
capelza
I hope this proves to be correct, and that more people were saved or got out than originally thought.
It’s going to be a long time I think before we ever have a decent idea of who survived and who is lost. The diaspora of the people of the area, with family members separated (not digging at anyone) will make it harder to connect all the people.
One blessing is the internet and the media have been helpful in this.
jobiuspublius
I saw a headline a few days ago, something about Broussard claimng that the feds were not too honest. I didn’t read it and I can’t seem to google it anymore.
So, if the death toll is low does that mean that the first responders did an admireable job?
CaseyL
Does that mean that more people did evacuate before the storm? 90%, not 80%?
Because otherwise the numbers don’t make any sense. 20,000 in the Superdome, another 20,000 (?) in the Convention Center, and let’s say 10,000 on the overpasses… still leaves 50,000 unaccounted for, from the original estimate.
Where are they?
The airlifts haven’t rescued anywhere near that number.
We know they couldn’t have just walked out. There’s only two ways out of New Orleans, and cops sealed both.
John Boucher
Demdude:
Not necessarily. The new Pew Poll shows Bush’s approval dropping significantly as well (40%), even falling amongst those calling themselves Republicans.
From the article: “Republicans in July said they approved of Bush by an 88 to 9 margin. In Sept that margin was 79 to 18, reflecting a 9 percent shift from approvers to disapprovers.”
Hopefully our GOP friends are waking up to the fact that Bush as an issue isn’t a Republican vs. democrat situation, but the demand for competent govt versus the destructive incompetence of the current administration. By continuing to align themsleves with such an egregiously inept individual as Bush they only cause further damage those things they claim to believe in.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/contest/blog/2005/09/09/BL200509091150_pf.html
slide
One time I can agree with Cole 100%
capelza
CaseyL…as of a few days ago, the Coast Guard alone had rescued over 9000 people fro rooftops, etc. (I can’t remember the exact number and it is higher by now anyway).
John Boucher
MSNBC is reporting Bush’s approval number falling to 38% in the new Newsweek Poll. 52% now say they don’t trust Bush in a crisis, with more disapproving of his policies on terrorism for the first time.
Can’t we just fire the asshole and put someone competent in charge? At this point I’d even accept a Republican. McCain, Giuliani, anybody but this irresponsible eternal teenage clown.
tBone
The real question is, do these numbers account for the number of babies that Bush ate on his tour of the area? That would obviously skew the results.
jobiuspublius
Once the SCOTUS situation settles down, he has outlived his usefullness. Impeachments in ’06?
ppGaz
Hard to eat babies when one has his foot in his mouth.
“Brownie ….. ” Well, everybody knows that one by heart now.
“Out of the rubble of Trent Lott’s house will come a fantastic house, and I can’t wait to sit on the front porch again.”
“I fully understand people wanting things to have happened yesterday”
“The citizens ought to be working together.”
“I just can’t imagine waving a sign that says ‘Come and get me now.'”
rayabacus
But he is the President. And will continue to be until January 2009. And he will appoint at least two, maybe more, Supreme Court Justices. And Congress is solidly Republican and most likely to continue to be so. And a majority of the State Governors are Republican and most likely will continue to be so. And the majority of the State Legislatures are Republican and will most likely continue to be so.
God, it must really suck for your political ideology to be that far off of the majority of the populace. Hey, but at least you have your opinions.
As they say “Opinions are like assholes, everbody has one.”
Slide
ppGaz you missed one of my favorites. While Bush was in Air Force One flying over the devastation of Katrina, and as the pilot dipped one wing so Bush can get a better look from thousands of feet in the air, our great leader said,
Doubly? Ya think?
Slide
I wouldn’t bet the farm on that.
jobiuspublius
Not everybody has children.
capelza
He actually said THAT? In what context?
Mike S
Back to the topic, and away from bashing my favorite bashee, I hope this is right. I just can’t stand the thought of 10,000+ dead Americans.
rayabacus
I don’t intend to. Even the pundits and political prognosticators on the Left have accepted the inevitable that there is no way for the Dems to gain enough seats in either the Senate or HOR to overturn the Republican Majority. The best they are hoping for is a gain of three to five seats in the HOR, and admit that that is a best case scenario.
CaseyL
The WH/GOP strategy at first was to simply shift blame to local authorities.
When that didn’t work as well as they’d hoped, they sorta kinda demoted Brown. Plus, they cranked up the FEIMA (h/t to Michael Berube) campaign.
Maybe FEIMA will work. There’s not a single snake-oil pitch the Bush Admin’s tried over the last 4 years that the mass media and American people haven’t fallen for.
But if that doesn’t work, and people stay good and mad, the GOP will probably shift tactics to isolate Bush from the Party, so the anger doesn’t impact the ’06 and ’08 elections. They’ll say the problem is the man, not his vision. Gee, it’s too bad all those people died, too bad a major American city was lost, but hey! let’s not throw the Grover Norquist baby out with the New Orleans bathwater!
Because, as we all know, Bush can’t run for President again. (After Katrina, I doubt anyone outside the LGF crowd still has any hope of overturning the 22nd Amendment for Bush’s benefit.) But the GOP agenda must be protected at all costs. There’s still SocSec to get rid of, a few environmental regs to overturn, school curriculum and public health policies to theocratize, and the Estate Tax to repeal forever and ever, amen!
So, if people stay angry, Job One will be making sure the mud and blood drenching George Bush doesn’t stain the GOP skirts.
It will be interesting to see how the GOP, which has aided and abetted and lied for and covered up for Bush for lo these many years, goes about disassociating itself from him. Maybe they’ll retool one of Bush’s own favorite talking points and roll out one of those “No one could have expected” talking points: “No one could have expected the incompetence that the Bush Administration showed in its response to Hurricane Katrina… and, oh yeah, in its conduct of the Iraq war.”
jobiuspublius
Photo-op, is there ever another context for Worst POTUS Ever?
Slide
No way? Oh, I imagine there are a few ways. The aftermath of Katrina is not known at this time. It could be as cataclismic an event politically as it was in the Gulf coast. We may have indictments of top white house officals in a month or two. There are several other republican scandals just under the surface. All of this could form a perfect storm that makes that “NO WAY” prediction a bit premature.
jobiuspublius
George Will started laying down the foundation soon after Katrina struck. Leviathan in Louisiana
Look forward to the dominant party yammering about small goverment, as if that meant anything. It’s the same old song and dance. They’re going to mangle the security prosperity meme’s with small government gibberish.
First, exploit fear, say security. Then, show light at the end of the tunnel, say prosperity. Pretend you’re efficient, say small government. Let’s see if the opposition party can pull their heads out of their ass this time.
John Boucher
Rayabacus: I’d be curious, what political philosophy do you feel Bush represents? And is his incompetence part and parcel of the philosophy you subscribe to?
Bush has gotten a lot of Americans killed these last 5 years, both military and civilian. And most of these deaths you’d have to attribute to plain old ineptitude and indifference.
Is that what you’d consider it means to be a conservative?
Oh,Boy.Stupidity!
This thread shows the exact mindset of the amoral, noncompassionate Left. The thread is about the number of dead being less and you nutjobs turn it into a debate on the Prez’s approval ratings.
You guys are pathetic, but you already know that.
rayabacus
You care to elaborate? If you’re talking of the “Plame thing”, that is wistful thinking on your part. And please, oh sage one, enlighten us to the several other Republican scandals just under the surface.
You seem to have sole possession of the crystal ball. Please share.
ppGaz
On Sept 1, ABC Good Morning America:
As you see, even the, he had his priorities straight. Making sure there was no “playing politics” … even though anyone familiar with these sickening potatoheads knows that THEY are the ones that will gladly politicize their own grandmothers if they think it will make them look better.
I really think that the period of Tuesday through Friday of the preceeding week represents the absolutely sorriest, ugliest most embarassing performance by an American president in modern history. If Bush hadn’t done it, nobody could have made it up.
over it
I just came across this
Thought it could fit in on this thread. Do you think that the fact that they expect far fewer bodies(THANK GOD) has anything to do with them reversing on the no press policy? Or do you think it was all to do with the lawsuit?
Whatever the case….I am glad that it now appears that there will be fewer fatalities than first projected. Still far too many though. :(
rayabacus
I think Bush represents a hybrid political philosophy by his actions. That would be a combination of “Conservatism”
and ‘Classic Liberalism”.
And as far as the second question goes, that is like asking, “When did you stop beating your wife?” The incompetence happens to be your opinion, which I do not share.
Bush has, as far as I know, not killed a single American the last 5 years. I ask you, is it possible to quantify how many Americans deaths his policies have prvented? Since you so readily attribute the deaths of the Military serving in Afghanistan and Iraq to Bush, how many lives have been saved by interdiction and interruption of terrorist activities? You do not know and neither do I.
The ineptitude and indifference is, again an opinion of yours that I do not share. Like I say, you don’t need to convince me to accept your opinions and political philosophies, you need to convince about 5% of the voting populace.
linda
“Out of the rubble”
actually, the correct phrase was ‘out of the rubbles’ of trent lott’s house.
John Boucher
Rayabacus: 3 instances of where Bush’s incompetence and dereliction of his duties as president have directly rsulted in the deaths of American citizens.
1) Refused (or just didn’t understand) to act upon intelligence available during the summer of 2001 that indicated possible terrorist attacks using jet aircraft here in the U.S. This at a time, by the way, when Bush was in the process of running up a 42% vacation rate during his first 9 months in office.
2) Actively peddled the fairy tale that our troops in Iraq, (a war we now all know based upon reasons that turned out to be patently false – former Bush Secy of State Colin Powell’s mea culpa this week regarding the horseshit he peddled to the UN being a poignant reminder of just how bad this all was), would be welcomed by the Iraqi people as liberators. Nearly 1,900 military deaths and 10s of thousands of American casualties later, we now know just how deadly Bush’s incompetent leadership and poor judgement has been in this instance.
3) The Katrina disaster. While the president dallied about the West Coast and on his vanity ranch in Crawford, the most devastating natural disaster in U.S. history -Hurricane Katrini – was mowing down vast stretches of the Deep South. Only after the political consequences of Federal neglect and appearances of indifference became readily apparent (exacerbated, of course, by the strange antics of the inept cronies Bush himself had placed in charge of Homeland Security agencies such as FEMA), did Bush actually stir himself to exhibiting some level of concern. 100s of lives that could have been saved had he acted in the way the situation demanded, but George W. Bush had more pressing personal priorities.
There you go, 3 instances where Bush’s incompetence has cost American lives. You can cough up all the usual Limbot kneejerk denials you want, but as the polls now show, only a shrinking minority of the American people really believe that crap anymore. And today’s Newsweek Poll indicates that 52% of the American people no longer trust Bush in a crisis? Devastating. Man, do you guys have a lot of explaining to do!
So answer the question: Is incompetence really a conservative attribute? Even when it kills people?
Slide
If you think there aren’t going to be indictments in the Plame investigation I submit it is YOU that is enganging in wishful thinking.
Oh, and you were asking for other Republican scandals? Here ya go.
Tom Delay scandal:
Abramoff Scandal:
Pentagon Spy Scandal:
And of course we still have Halliburton fraud, Abu Garib torture, Intelligence manipulation with WMD, etc. etc.
I think there is a possibility that the free pass Bush has been given to date is about to evaporate like the morning dew. All of these scandals may, just may, cause the American electorate to “throw the bums out”. It won’t be the first time in history that has happened. And since the encumbant party in Washington right now is the Republicans, that will be bad news for the elephant.
John Boucher
Here’s a link the today’s Newsweek Poll. As the headline says: “Fifty-Seven Percent of Americans Have Lost Confidence in Government to deal With Another Natural Disaster; 52% Do Not Trust President to Make Right decisions in a Crisis.” All that and a 38% approval rating to boot.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050910/nysa013.html?.v=17
stickler
Regarding Republican scandals, Slide left out another one: the Ohio Republican Party mess. Tom Noe, a major fundraiser, was involved in the misallocation of millions of dollars from the state workmen’s comp. fund. Much of this was invested in rare coins and some is now, um, missing.
Here’s a link:
Ohio Republican Party Reeling
stickler
Damn. Messed up the link.
http://www.theconservativevoice.com/ap/article.html?mi=D8C35IDG0&apc=9008
Cut ‘n paste in the address bar. To hell with HTML.
Slide
Looking at the Newsweek poll, it seems like Americans are in a rather foul mood. Not ever a good sign for the party in power. A perfect storm brewing? Perhaps not a Cat 5 yet, but there certainly seems to be a Tropical Storm churnning the poltical waters.
Slide
stickler:
Right you are, forgot about that one, although it will have more local implications than nationwide I believe.
John Boucher
To me the Newsweek Poll, along with all the others that have come out this week, indicate this country has reached the tipping point with Bush. People just don’t believe in him or his abilities any more. The attempts to explain away Bush’s obvious incompetence regarding Katrina have fallen on deaf ears, and nothing is left except disappointment and disgust.
If this country was run like a business Bush would have been fired by now. But since it is govt we’re stuck with a burned-out and basically useless lame duck for another 3 or so years. And that at a time when we need effective leadership more than ever.
Slide
But we were told this was going to be the CEO presidency? That the Republicans, agree or disagee with them, were at least going to be competent. The Daddy party remember? No more wearing blue jeans in the white house… meeting were going to start on time… all that important stuff.
Slide
Bush’s dropping poll numbers will have a cascading effect, especially as an election year approaches. He is not going to have, what he has had in the past, unqualifed support among republicans. He is going to be as toxic to them as the waters in NO are. This will compound his probems. He will have to be dealing with the NO’s evacuees for quite a while and does ANYBODY think at this point they will do a GOOD job? Not me. There is going to be fuck up after fuck up with the government’s response to this and that is going to further sap his popularity. War in Iraq? If the constitution is defeated in October, as many predict, that setback will coincide most likely with the unfortunate milestone of 2,000 dead Americans. Social Security? – dead on arrival. His plan to make permanent tax cuts for rich? – not going to go over very well at this time.
A perfect storm you ask? Keep your eyes on that Doppler radar, the barometer is falling.
goonie bird
What a big disapintment it must be for the zero population freaks and egghead nit-wits like PAUL EHRLICH and the eco-weenies at GREENPEACE they wont be able to claim global warmming kills milloan in New Orleans
bains
Any more, all one has to do is scan the names of those commenting to know the tenor of discussion.
In this case, a hopeful post about initial death estimates being wrong is merely a preface to the same irrational diatribes.
(Using a trick that so many use here…) Its a known fact that if Bush’s polling numbers had not dropped this past week, the news that John Cole mentions would be cause for lamentation on the left – after all, they need and hope for a substantial death toll with which to bludgeon Bush.
Slide
bains said:
Fuck you. How dare you impune the motives of those of us on the left by suggesting we “hope” for a substantial death toll. Fuck you again. No one hopes more than me that the reports of a lower death toll are accurate. No one wants a high death toll and to suggest that that is the wish of the left is just reprehensible. And as for “needing” it to bludgeon bush that is just hogwash. Bush BLUDGEONED Bush. His actions. His comments. His appointments to FEMA. His spending priorities. His fuckin Mother. This is a self inflicted wound my friend and no one said it better than Craig Crawford today:
TallDave
This comment thread shows exatly why Democrats are not trusted by the majority of Americans anymore.
bains
You mean using your own tactics?
Slide
TallDave says this amazingly enough:
When the very Newsweek poll that came out today had this to say:
With these kool-aid drinkers, up is down, black is white.
TallDave
Slide,
Yeah, which party controls the White House, the Senate, the House, and the majority of governorships? Black is white, indeed. Sheesh.
And, I hate to break this to you, but people like you are the reason why.
slide
TallGuy boasts:
perhaps that accounts for this:
.
rayabacus
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165109,00.html
Here is the actual PDB paper that claims to indict Bush for a failure to act. You read it and tell me how you, or any reasonable person, would have acted. Would you have had the Feds shut down the entire US airspace based on this,? Let’s see Bush was in office less than 8 months at the time, all of Clinton’s intelligence apparatus was still in place and operating. There may have well been a colossal failure of the intelligence community in 1999 and 2000. I think there will be more information coming out on this as the Able Danger scenario plays out. If this is, according to you, solely Bush’s responsibility, then tell me, how many people did Bill Clinton kill? Your argument is, at best, disengenous or, at worst, an attempt to tar Bush with the intelligence failures during the Clinton Administration and other earlier Administrations.
You don’t really want to go here do you? Are you saying that after the dismantling of the Iraqi Army, that we weren’t greeted as liberators? I mean you can go back and look at some of the MSM footage if your memory is suspect. But, I know, you are not talking about then you are talking about now. Perhaps you are forgetting all about the 38 or so reasons that Congress spelled out for going to war in Iraq. And perhaps you forget that Congress authorized the war in Iraq, not once, but twice. Once when Clinton was President.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/10/20021002-2.html
Maybe you also forget that every other major intelligence apparatus in the world including Franc, Germany and Russia proclaimed Iraq in possession of WMD. I’m not defending our intelligence community for their failings, just pointing out what the world opinion was at the time.
First and foremost I disagree with your opinion that President Bush is incompetent.
You pepper your dissertation with hyperbolic statements and opinions. (Yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinions) If I take your logic that Bush is responsible for the death of every American since he took office, I guess that would make Lyndon Johnson a killer of 58,000 in Nam, Truman a killer of even more in Korea and FDR a killer of over 1/4 million in WWII.
I believe that decent, reasonable people can disagree about the decision to go to war in Iraq. But the CHIMPBUSHHALIBURTONNAZI
rayabacus
OOPS! Hit the wrong button.
But the CHIMPBUSHHALIBURTONNAZI crowd doesn’t get a lot of my attention. I can’t learn anything from them. I’m reasonably politically astute and I enjoy talking to people who have different political philosophies, or just different philosophies, than I do. I have learned many things through conversations with them, and they have learned some things from me.
I do not frequent the fringe blogs (DU,LGF,Freepers) and certainly do not comment on them if I do go there. There is not much sense made in any of them.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that hyperbolic prose, trying for that “Gotcha” moment, exaggeration, embellishment, etc. may look good on the comment board and get you some HEAR! HEAR! from like minded people, they just do not make for substantive debate on the issues. You also make the mistake of prejudging someone strictly from their comments. You assume that I am a Republican, far right wing Conservative, ditto head, Bush apologist. You are wrong.
I am a registered Independent and I vote in every election, even the ones for dog catcher. I diagree with the Bush Administration on many issues, just like I agreed with Clinton on many issues. I favor small government, therefore I think this Administration has been fiscally irresponsible. I am a firm believer in the “Modern Liberal” agenda, I just don’t think it can be achieved using “Modern Liberal” programs or techniques as it were. I am an atheist who doesn’t care that “In God We Trust” is on my money. I think the “War on Drugs” is an abyssmal failure. I think prison is the wrong place for drug addicts. The money we spend on housing them and taking care of their families while they are in could be spent on drug education. I do not care what consenting adults do. I do care what they do with minors. I think every woman that wants a safe, hygenic, professional abortion should be able to obtain one. I just happen to believe that those laws are the purview of soveriegn states, not the Federal Government. That leads to a discussion of Federalism, which leads to a discussion of (insert topic)
You know we could have lots of intelligent discussions on a myriad of topics, once we get over the need to bury each other in the hyberbolic bullshit. We could discuss the ways that policies we agree on could be implemented.
We could seriously debate policies we do not agree on. You could very well convince me to support one of your policies I initially disagreed with, or I you. But your hatred of Bush and his Administration prevents you from having those discussions. You have to vent. You have exaggerate. You have to assign to Bush, and Bush only, the same sins that previous administrations indulged. That others did it certainly does not make it right. It just puts a different light on it. “Business as usual in Washington”
So, here’s hoping that issues of substance can be discussed rationaly, with facts, acknowledgeing our opponent’s points. An exchange of ideas is always beneficial. An exchange of insults is degrading to all of us.
John Boucher
Laughable, Raygabbagabba. Just out and out laughable.
Really, do the faults of other presidents make Bush’s blunders OK? C’mon, man! You are an adult, right? Does the “But mommy! Billy did it, too!” rationale really work for you? Johnson did a horrible job handling Vietnam, so Bush now has permission to do a horrible job in Iraq? FEMA is doing a great job, and we shouldn’t make too much of Bush crony Brownie Cakes getting sent packing back to Washington? Our troops were greeted as liberators in Iraq? Really? When? Between your last LSD trip and your discovery of OxyContin? Was it the same day your first methamphetamine enema made you realize that Bush was just the victim of “bad intelligence?” Like Curly in the 3 Stooges, a the victim of circumstance?
You accuse me of making “hyperbolic assertions,” and then in the same damned paragraph you state: “If I take your assertion that Bush is responsible for the death of every American since he took office…”
Lay off the glue, dude. It is rotting your sense of irony.
Saying so doesn’t make it so, Ray. If you wnat to spend the next 3 years being an apologist for Bush’s wretched incompetence, so be it. But all the numbers indicate that for most people the point is moot. This guy had more than his chance to prove himself, has been proven to be an awful president, and the country now knows that and is moving on.
It’s over, the tide has gone out and it won’t be coming back. Nothing to do now but watch the beached and once ballyhoo’d “War President” flop on the sand and gasp for air.
rayabacus
You wish. Talk to me again after the 2006 election. You still forget that your ideology hasn’t won an election since Moby Dick was a sardine. You can rant all you like, your rants will not make an ant’s worth of difference.
Good luck to you in your magical kingdom. I’m sure you will by quite content with yourself. Remember, “Elections do have consequences”
rayabacus
Oh, by the way. How do you intend to cope for the next three and a half years?
Just curious.
John Boucher
Ray the Bush Groupie: I’m more concerned about how the country will cope. And judging by the stunning collapse of Bush’s support as shown in the 5 major polls released this week, so is the rest of the adult population of the United States.
rayabacus
John,
You can and probably will call me a Bush Apologist, but becuase you say it, does not make it true. The country will cope, it has before. I do not ever recall where polls brought the country down.
But you’re doing a good job Johnnie, keep it up. We’re all proud of you.
ppGaz
We’ll need to see the data ……
slide
rayabacus spewed this piece of wisdom.
You do know don’t you that in three out of the last four presidential elections – the Democratic candidate got more votes than the Republican candidate.
I dont’ know how old you are rayabacus but you really should study history a bit more. There was a time that the Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and had the Presidency too. These things have a tendency to go back and forth and usually the tide turns just when you think you have all the marbles. Gore got more votes than Bush in 2000. Bush’s approval rating, prior to 911, were rather anemic. Americans, when polled on specific issues more often agree with the Democratic position than the Republican’s. 911 changed everything as well all know. Bush reaped the bennefit of that as he was our leader during a time when we were under attack. He has squandered all of that good will and then some. The country has gotten a good look at what Republican leadership looks like. They have no excuses because, as you have rightly pointed out, Republicans control all the levers of power. When a huge majority of Americans think the country is going in the WRONG direction that could be quite a problem don’t you think?
You can’t see where you are going if you are only looking in the rear view mirror. Things are changing in the country. I’ve been around long enough to sense that. It might not happen overnight but things are definitly changing.
slide
I’m always curious as to why a Bush supporter is a Bush supporter. So, rayabacus can you tell me what Bush has done these last five years that make you such an ardent soldier. What are his proudest achievements? What can you point to convince a non-partisan of why Bush has been a good president.I am most curious.
rayabacus
Hey, slide. I’ll give you a chance to back that up. I will bet a $50.00 donation to the Red Cross for Katrina Relief that no one in the White House is indicted in the “Plame affair”. After the indictments, if any, come out if anyone in the WH is indicted I will donate $50.00, I’ll run it through John. If no one in the WH is indicted then you can donate $50.00 to the Red Cross through John.
Let me know if you’re still so confident in your prediction.
ppGaz
I’ll take the bet, provided you give me 20:1 odds on Karl Rove. If he’s indicted, you donate $1000.
Deal?
rayabacus
I didn’t say anything about Republicans or Democrqts. I said your ideology. And I probably know a little bit more about history than you do unless your are currently collecting your Social Security, since I’ve lived it. Don’t assume.
rayabacus
Deal.
slide
rayabacus still waiting for you to enumerate the reasons bush has been a good president?
John Boucher
Poor Ray is now tap dancing like an armless wino with a stick of lit dynamite up his ass.
ppGaz
Done. John has my email addy. Let me know what the drill is for handling the funds.
slide
This is not about ideology anymore. This about competence. This is about honesty. This is about fairness. This is about cronyism. This is about lying to the American public. This is about doing back flips to authorize torture. This is about increasing poverty year after year when Clinton decreased poverty for eight staight years. This is about changing scientific reports to make them match your ideology. This is about viciously attacking those that you disagree with. This is about using Swift Boat tactics to win at any cost. this is about lying to congress about the true cost of the Medicare bill.
Its not about ideology for me. Its about the character of the man, which for me, leaves a lot to be desired.
rayabacus
Slide,
OOPS, I missed your question.
I guess I am a Bush supporter. I never thought of it in exactly that way. I just don’t think I am a Bush apologist.
I think Bush is doing some of the things that I would do, were I President. I support the “Ownership society” and I think he has made strides in that area. I support holding public schools, supported by public funds, accountable for educating our children. I like the prospect of a parent being able to choose the school their child attends. I support school vouchers.
I believe that the tax system needs an overhaul and I support a consumption tax to replace the income tax. Bush has appointed a tax commission to study that possibility and others. I supported and still do the tax cuts. I am one of those that think that Federal revenues are increased by growth, not taxes, and the way to grow the economy is through tax cuts. Putting money into the hands of people that invest it grows jobs, as evidenced by the low unemployment rate.
I support Bush’s idea that Government should help people, not make them dependent on Government. We should provide an equal opportunity for all individuals, not equal economic status.
I support Bush’s stance on national security. It is my belief that the true purpose of a national government is the security of its citizens. I favor a strong military. I was and still am in support of Bush and the war in Iraq. I saw what a few ounces of anthrax powder did to this country and our economy and Iraq refused to account for 2000 gallons of the stuff.
I support the idea, not the plan, for individual investment accounts to supplement Social Security. Obviously not for me, I’m too old to benefit, but for my grandchildren. Something will have to be done about this Ponzi scheme in the near future. We cannot be increasing the onerous FICA, the most regressive tax on the poor there is.
I support Bush’s foreign policy. Especially as it relates to the State of Israel and the Middle East. I believe there are positive results of that policy such as free elections in Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, the Palestine Authority and baby steps to a Democratic Saudi Arabia. Stabiliztion of the government in Pakistan, which should lead to contested elections there. Libya declaring it had a nuclear program (that the CIA knew nothing of)and voluntarily giving it up. The Nuclear Materials interdiction program, worldwide. Over 1000 terrorist interdictions in over 300 countries since 9/11.
There are more that I could somewhat agree with and somewhat disagree with. There are some that I think are just flat out wrong. The boondogle of a drug benefit program I think will be a bigger drain eventually on the budget than medicare/medicaid is now.
The recent highway bill is nothing but an excuse to spend Federal money on local projects. A horrible bill that should have been vetoed. I disagree with Bush on the aspect of embryotic stem cells. I do not think Government has any place in private scientific research.
He is definitely not a fiscal conservative. I will not support his “guest worker” program. He is wrong. People in the country illegaly are unfairly taking the place of someone that goes through the proper channesl to migrate to this country. They have broken the law and should be deported.
As with any politician he does not embrace all of my policies, but enough that, yeah, I support him. Just as I supported some of the programs of Bill Clinton.
rayabacus
Cite please. It may very well be true, just supply the data.
rayabacus
Johnnie,
Not quite true. Just busier than a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.
rayabacus
You guys work on this discussion without me. I need to go home now. I’ve supported Capitalism all I can today. I’ll check back on Monday and see how you are doing.
Keeep up the good work, Johnnie. You’re doing a hell of a job.
Candidus
Dear Lord…
You can tell a man who boozes by the company he chooses.
For God’s sake, just close it.
John Boucher
Ray has been posting this malarkey on his boss’s dime?
Damn. Talk about your productivity loss.
rayabacus
Johnnie,
There you go again, making dumb-ass assumptions.
You know us Capitalists. We don’t work for the man, we work for ourselves.
slide
Just like Bush and his cronies:
Now if we could only get them to put as much energy and effort to work for the citizens of the country instead of their wallets we would all be a lot better off.
John Cole
If you guys can’t address Ray without petty and sniode insults, why do you even think you deserve responses?
slide
Ok, let me address something Ray said:
You’re a little behind the curve Ray as this washington Post article suggests:
At best a gain of 3 to 5 seats in the House you say? Keep the faith baby.
slide
And just for the record, I haven’t addressed Ray with any petty and sniode insults. Whatever a sniode insult is.
Jeff Maier
An embarrassing comment thread. John leads off with a story about how, hopefully, deaths from Katrina might be less than early estimates and the response?
70+ comments regarding Bush, Democrats, poll results, etc. Liberal or conservative, too often we all seem to lose sight of our humanity.
ppGaz
Yes, it’s the commenters’ job to figure out when John is “sincere” in dipping his foot into the Bathosphere, or when he is tongue-in-cheek, or when he is just out to “piss people off”, or when he is being funny, or …….
BadTux
According to a doctor blogging from the scene, they haven’t even begun searching the lowest/worst hit/poorest areas for bodies yet. The water is still 9+ feet deep in those areas and the only access is via boat.
He also reported “hundreds” of bodies on the second floor of the New Orleans Convention Center, apparently the bodies of those who died of a lack of water, food, or medication during the 5 days that Bush dithered over whether the President of the United States had to ask some tinpot governor for permission to save lives.
I think it is still far, far too early to even talk about how many people died. For one thing, a lot of the bodies in the parishes south of New Orleans ended up as alligator MRE’s, floating out into the swamps or waterways or simply eaten on the spot. We won’t even begin to know how many died in Plaquemines Parish, for example, until the relatives of the missing file their missing person reports — the whole parish was basically washed away, nothing left there except rubble and high water marks 20 feet up in the trees, and any bodies got sucked out with the storm surge.
In other words, I think we’re hearing the sound of spinning again. While I certainly hope that there was less than the tens of thousands of dead feared, that hope is more faith-based than fact-based — the facts are pretty bad, with Plaquemines and southern St. Bernard Parishes washed away and the east end of New Orleans (where *nobody* has gone yet other than rescue workers) still under 18 feet of water (no repairs have been done on the levees there, and no water has been pumped out yet). What’s under that 18 feet of water? I don’t want to know. I don’t want to know. But I fear I shall find out.
Slide
do you have a link to that Doctor’s blog?
Profbacon
Bodies are being eaten by Aligators. I wouldn’t consider this a good thing.
goonie bird
That still means the GALVASTON 1900 HURRICANE was much more worse then katrina