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You are here: Home / Politics / Someone Save Patterico

Someone Save Patterico

by John Cole|  October 20, 200512:44 pm| 93 Comments

This post is in: Politics

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Because Harriet Miers has him about to jump:

If you need me this morning, I’ll be out on the window ledge. Because it is becoming clearer and clearer that we are headed towards the confirmation of a Supreme Court justice who has no idea what the Constitution says.

Sexist elitist pig.

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Next Post: Goodbye, Harriet? »

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93Comments

  1. 1.

    TallDave

    October 20, 2005 at 12:57 pm

    It’s pretty clear that Bush was trying to avoid a fight, and appointed someone who is not particularly qualified. My guess is she will not survive the hearings.

    I do have to wonder how hard lefties will be kicking themselves if she’s withdrawn and Janice Rogers Brown is nominated.

  2. 2.

    TallDave

    October 20, 2005 at 1:06 pm

    Here’s the link in text, since the site seems to be chewing the a tags.

    news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/703440.stm

  3. 3.

    TallDave

    October 20, 2005 at 1:06 pm

    oops wrong thread

  4. 4.

    Tim F

    October 20, 2005 at 1:08 pm

    I do have to wonder how hard lefties will be kicking themselves if she’s withdrawn and Janice Rogers Brown is nominated.

    NP. Two up, two down.

  5. 5.

    Tim F

    October 20, 2005 at 1:13 pm

    We haven’t had a Drownie thread in awhile. You know what I’m thinking? Yes, you know what I’m thinking. Drownie time!

    WASHINGTON –
    Federal Emergency Management Agency officials did not respond to repeated warnings about deteriorating conditions in New Orleans and the dire need for help as Hurricane Katrina struck, the first FEMA official to arrive conceded Thursday.
    ADVERTISEMENT

    Marty Bahamonde, a FEMA regional director, told a Senate panel investigating the government’s response to the disaster that he gave regular updates to people in contact with then-FEMA Director Michael Brown as early as Aug. 28, one day before Katrina made landfall.

    In most cases, he was met with silence. In an Aug. 29 phone call to Brown informing him that the first levee had broke, Bahamaonde said he received a polite thank you from Brown, who said he would check with the White House.

    “I think there was a systematic failure at all levels of government to understand the magnitude of the situation,” Bahamonde said.

    The testimony before the Senate
    Homeland Security Committee contradicted Brown, who has said he wasn’t fully aware of the dire conditions until days later and that local officials were most responsible for the sluggish response.

  6. 6.

    Davebo

    October 20, 2005 at 1:15 pm

    TallDave

    Well, I like my chances. Withdraw Miers amid disgust from all sides and nominate whomever he pleases.

    Then try to push them through the senate with the 1/3 of his staff not under indictment and approval ratings that would make Nixon laugh.

    Bring it on

  7. 7.

    Jack Roy

    October 20, 2005 at 1:17 pm

    Speaking as an American who doesn’t want to flee this country when it burns the ground, this story makes me sad. Why do you link to things that make me sad, John Cole?

    Speaking as a lefty, if you Janice Rogers Brown to be nominated, bring it on. Just what the Democratic party needs in advance of midterms, is all the moderate voters in the country to be saying, “Wait, Republicans think like that?”

  8. 8.

    Lines

    October 20, 2005 at 1:25 pm

    Why is there such a high belief that Miers will be confirmed?

  9. 9.

    Vladi G

    October 20, 2005 at 1:27 pm

    Reid to President Bush: PWN3D!!

  10. 10.

    Jack Roy

    October 20, 2005 at 1:28 pm

    Vladi G—

    Pawned? What the hell does that mean?

  11. 11.

    Tim F

    October 20, 2005 at 1:32 pm

    It’s compu-geek-speak for ‘owned.’ The ‘p’ comes from a variation, ‘kerPOWned,’ which added emphasis. The number 3 looks like the letter E in reverse. As in, ‘l337’ for LEET.

  12. 12.

    Mr Furious

    October 20, 2005 at 1:32 pm

    Yeah, I need help with that one too.

  13. 13.

    Mr Furious

    October 20, 2005 at 1:33 pm

    Tim F-

    That didn’t help at all.

  14. 14.

    demimondian

    October 20, 2005 at 1:33 pm

    PWN3D (or even PWNDZ3R4ted) means “owned”, as in, “I OWN your box, biatch” — l33t speak for “I’ve just taken over your box from outside, so there.” In more modern parlance, it’s “I just killed you/beat you soundly/otherwise had fun at your expense in a video game.”

    (What can I say? I have teenagers.)

  15. 15.

    Mr Furious

    October 20, 2005 at 1:36 pm

    I just wasted a half an hour at Patterico’s site [via The Crank or Insta or someone…].

    Pure schadenfreude for me.

    [It was my first time reading him, and he’s actually a pretty good writer.]

  16. 16.

    Vladi G

    October 20, 2005 at 1:36 pm

    It means owned in l33t speak.

    Reid recommended Miers, and something in me says he did it because he knew if Bush was stupid enough to nominate her, it would blow up in their faces. If you prefer “Punk’d”, that’s fine too.

  17. 17.

    Krista

    October 20, 2005 at 1:37 pm

    demimondian – oh dear god. I’m impressed at your mastery of the lingo. I’m going to be so utterly lost when the day comes that I have teenagers. (Mind you, I’ll probably be doddering and half-senile by the time I get to that point, so I suppose it won’t matter.)

  18. 18.

    Mr Furious

    October 20, 2005 at 1:41 pm

    Thanks, demimondian. Now if I just knew what the hell your name meant…

    dem·i·monde (n.)
    1. A class of women kept by wealthy lovers or protectors. Women prostitutes considered as a group.

    2. A group whose respectability is dubious or whose success is marginal

    In the right ballpark?

  19. 19.

    demimondian

    October 20, 2005 at 1:41 pm

    demimondian – oh dear god. I’m impressed at your mastery of the lingo.

    Don’t be. The eldest and I don’t see eye-to-eye politically, and he likes to send me snide emails. Gotta be able to defend myself somehow — I sure can’t win the video games any more…

  20. 20.

    Geek, Esq.

    October 20, 2005 at 1:42 pm

    We were due for a Warren Burger-type of Justice.

  21. 21.

    Jack Roy

    October 20, 2005 at 1:43 pm

    Vladi, Demi and Tim—

    Umm… thank you? I think? for the explanation. And I think I may have just lost my faith in God.

    Sheesh, kids these days. In my day, we taunted our classmates like “Thus have I boxed you ’round the ears, scalawag,” and we were perfectly happy.

  22. 22.

    demimondian

    October 20, 2005 at 1:45 pm

    We were due for a Warren Burger-type of Justice.ROTFL.

    That is the best snark since DougJ referred to Anon os Onan.

  23. 23.

    demimondian

    October 20, 2005 at 1:54 pm

    Thanks, demimondian. Now if I just knew what the hell your name meant…

    And here I thought people were puzzled by what I wrote, not my nick.

    You’ve nailed half of the basis of my nick. The other half is that I work for a large software corporation based in the pacific northwest, the emplyees of which are often referred to as “Redmondians” in the technology press. I sold out some of my ideals to come work here, which makes me, in my own eyes, an intellectual whore.

  24. 24.

    John S.

    October 20, 2005 at 2:21 pm

    Demimondian-

    I believe you just redefined the essence of the question “What’s in a name?”.

    Excellent and soul-bearing stuff there, my friend.

  25. 25.

    Sojourner

    October 20, 2005 at 3:03 pm

    I do have to wonder how hard lefties will be kicking themselves if she’s withdrawn and Janice Rogers Brown is nominated.

    It won’t be just Dems who will suffer if Brown is confirmed. The woman is f’ing insane.

  26. 26.

    yet another jeff

    October 20, 2005 at 3:07 pm

    My first thought was the PAWNED meant “owned, but held in low esteem and pawned for beer money”. In that sense, much more insulting than OWNED.

    Bush picked her because the conservative elites said he couldn’t pick Gonzo. He just doesn’t give a damn as long as he gets his way.

  27. 27.

    Krista

    October 20, 2005 at 3:15 pm

    Don’t be. The eldest and I don’t see eye-to-eye politically, and he likes to send me snide emails.

    Then you’ve done an excellent job as a parent, if the kid actually has political thoughts and the wherewithal to express them.

    I thought I was doing so well keeping up with the slang…I’m still being dragged kicking and screaming into adulthood, so it’s disheartening to find out that I’m completely and utterly out of the loop. Do me a favour, though…if I ever descend to the point of polyester slacks and sweatshirts with kittens on them, someone take pity on me and shoot me, okay?

  28. 28.

    SeesThroughIt

    October 20, 2005 at 3:20 pm

    Sheesh, kids these days. In my day, we taunted our classmates like “Thus have I boxed you ‘round the ears, scalawag,” and we were perfectly happy.

    Bwah! Hey, I used to work for a video-game magazine; the l33t-speak letters we used to get were just plain astounding. Around the office, our favorite exclamation was “OMG111” But you had to actually say it that way: oh-em-gee-one-one-one.

  29. 29.

    demimondian

    October 20, 2005 at 3:27 pm

    Around the office, our favorite exclamation was “OMG111″

    The last time the eldest taunted me electronically, he put in a quote from me, and then said..

    OMGWTF!!!111ONE-ONE-ONE

    I got the message

  30. 30.

    Pug

    October 20, 2005 at 3:29 pm

    It won’t be just Dems who will suffer if Brown is confirmed. The woman is f’ing insane.

    The Right wants her bad. They are just itching for a fight with the evil liberals. They think she splits the liberals into all kind of factions. Could be right, I guess.

    Clarence Thomas and Janice Rogers Brown as the two blacks on the Supreme Court. They just love that in-your-face stuff. If Bush had nominated her, he would be a legendary hero forever with the right-wing.

  31. 31.

    DecidedFenceSitter

    October 20, 2005 at 3:34 pm

    Generally, if my friends and I are snarking the leet speakers it’s OMG!!!oneone!!!elevenoneone!!!!

  32. 32.

    Kimmitt

    October 20, 2005 at 3:44 pm

    I’m still being dragged kicking and screaming into adulthood, so it’s disheartening to find out that I’m completely and utterly out of the loop.

    It’s a gaming subculture thing which has metastasized into teen culture, so it’s kind of obscure.

  33. 33.

    Sojourner

    October 20, 2005 at 3:44 pm

    They think she splits the liberals into all kind of factions

    Nope. The libs learned an important lesson from Clarence Thomas – never again. Being African American is not enough.

  34. 34.

    RA

    October 20, 2005 at 3:51 pm

    Riiggght! And those seven baby killing pricks who gave us Roe know what the constitution is all about!?? Miers is far more knowledgable and honest than the gang of seven or Ruth Bader Godzilla, Sutter, O’Conner or Kennedy.

  35. 35.

    Andrei

    October 20, 2005 at 4:09 pm

    Sheesh.. Geezers all of you.

    PWNED does indeed mean “owned” as in “I just kicked your ass, bitch.” But the “p” comes from gamers constantly hitting “p” instead “o,” which are right next to each other on the keyboard, in the heat of battle.

    If you really want l33t speak, you can also say OMGWTFPNWEDBBQ. Which basically means you been faced in the worst possible way imaginable.

  36. 36.

    Lines

    October 20, 2005 at 4:11 pm

    Someone sounds like they need a nap

    Miers is far more knowledgable and honest than the gang of seven or Ruth Bader Godzilla, Sutter, O’Conner or Kennedy.

  37. 37.

    Rome Again

    October 20, 2005 at 4:17 pm

    Riiggght! And those seven baby killing pricks who gave us Roe know what the constitution is all about!?? Miers is far more knowledgable and honest than the gang of seven or Ruth Bader Godzilla, Sutter, O’Conner or Kennedy.

    I hope you’ll be just as upset when we have an influx of human children suffering on the street because their parents weren’t ready to raise them.

    Abortion is not something anyone cheers about, but it is a solution to the problem of unwanted pregnancy. If you really cared about unwanted pregnancy, then why not write your congressmen and tell them that birth control products would make many abortions obsolete. But, see, we liberals already realize that not only do you conservatives not want abortion, you want no birth control either. Abstinence is not a reasonable solution, it never was, it never will be. If you can’t get serious enough to at least allow birth control to those who will not remain abstinent, then you will be responsible for the wails of suffering that come from those unwanted children on the street.

    Live with it.

  38. 38.

    Pug

    October 20, 2005 at 4:19 pm

    And those seven baby killing pricks who gave us Roe know what the constitution is all about!??

    Uh oh. “Baby killer” has been introduced into the conversation.

    Abandon ship!

  39. 39.

    yet another jeff

    October 20, 2005 at 4:29 pm

    Heh, baby killing pricks…and Ruth Bader Godzilla! Ah, that’s some quality paranoia there. Mmm.

    Oh, and Andrei…I haven’t heard the term “faced” in years! Thanks for the reminder.

  40. 40.

    SeesThroughIt

    October 20, 2005 at 4:50 pm

    Oh, and Andrei…I haven’t heard the term “faced” in years! Thanks for the reminder.

    Me either, though I thought its meaning had been changed to mean drunk, as in short for “shitfaced.”

  41. 41.

    rilkefan

    October 20, 2005 at 5:11 pm

    “approval ratings that would make Nixon laugh.”

    Nixon’s not laughing at Bush yet.

  42. 42.

    jg

    October 20, 2005 at 5:35 pm

    Is today over yet? This day has sucked so far.

  43. 43.

    srv

    October 20, 2005 at 5:54 pm

    Someone Save Patterico

    Damn. It’s probably too late to drive down to LA and scream for him to jump. I wonder what sound a republican blogger makes when he hits concrete.

  44. 44.

    yet another jeff

    October 20, 2005 at 5:57 pm

    I believe the sound is sort of a thud-squish. I mean, it’s not like a tree falling in the woods with no one around.

  45. 45.

    Steve S

    October 20, 2005 at 6:17 pm

    Yeah, Janice Rogers Brown is the classic definition of an extremist.

    She started off a Maoist Communist, and now adheres to kind of a Nazi Fascism ideology. But that’s not the type of person you can depend on. She could just as easily flip out and start speaking Klingon on the bench.

  46. 46.

    Krista

    October 20, 2005 at 7:07 pm

    It’s a gaming subculture thing which has metastasized into teen culture, so it’s kind of obscure.

    Ah, that’ll do it. The last time I was heavily involved in a game was when FFVII came out…

  47. 47.

    John S.

    October 20, 2005 at 7:15 pm

    Ah, that’ll do it. The last time I was heavily involved in a game was when FFVII came out…

    You’re showing your age, Krista.

    Boy, was that a great game though…

    ^_^

  48. 48.

    Krista

    October 20, 2005 at 7:17 pm

    Wasn’t it, though? Took me 52 hours to finish it. I don’t know how I could be showing my age, though…I could have been 15 or 55 when I played that, hm?

  49. 49.

    jg

    October 20, 2005 at 7:18 pm

    WTH is FFVII?

  50. 50.

    Krista

    October 20, 2005 at 7:24 pm

    jg – Final Fantasy VII – it’s a role-playing game, made primarily for the Playstation. It had a really interesting story line, some phenomenal graphics, and some really challenging fight sequences.

  51. 51.

    John S.

    October 20, 2005 at 7:25 pm

    I could have been 15 or 55 when I played that, hm?

    That is true. I know a guy who is 52, and still an avid video game player.

    WTH is FFVII?

    The video game Final Fantasy Seven.

  52. 52.

    Krista

    October 20, 2005 at 7:31 pm

    John S. – your assumption was probably right, though. I’m 30.

  53. 53.

    jg

    October 20, 2005 at 7:36 pm

    As soon as I posted it I figured it out. Never played that game but I did see the movie.

  54. 54.

    TallDave

    October 20, 2005 at 7:38 pm

    Well, all of the last 7 Presidents had approval ratings lower than Bush right now, no one has been indicted yet, and Brown will be have to filibustered to stop her nomination. That will be fun! I was really disappointed when Bush nominated someone so unworthy of a big fight. I love seeing the Left and Right go at it.

    Oh, and the governors of Arizona and Florida just came out and said “Gee, the federal response was just fine when we had problems.” They seem to imply the problems originated with local incompetence.

  55. 55.

    jg

    October 20, 2005 at 7:45 pm

    They didn’t imply that but that didn’t stop you from inferring it. No one is saying there was no blame at the local level. However since in Katrina’s case there was very little remaining of the local level its wrong to put all blame on them IMO.

  56. 56.

    rilkefan

    October 20, 2005 at 8:08 pm

    “Well, all of the last 7 Presidents had approval ratings lower than Bush right now”

    Consider this graph.

  57. 57.

    rilkefan

    October 20, 2005 at 8:10 pm

    “Florida”

    Thanks for the laugh, TallDave.

  58. 58.

    John S.

    October 20, 2005 at 8:18 pm

    I am surprised that the Governor of Florida brother of the President just came out and said “Gee, the federal response my brother was just fine when we had problems.”

    Just shocked, I tell you.

    There are other legitimate reasons why Florida fared better than New Orleans, and I assure you that geography has more to do with it than local incompetence.

  59. 59.

    rilkefan

    October 20, 2005 at 8:32 pm

    “I assure you that geography”

    You mean demography.

  60. 60.

    John S.

    October 20, 2005 at 8:44 pm

    You mean demography.

    Uh, no. I said geography because I meant the ‘study of the earth and its features and of the distribution of life on the earth, including human life and the effects of human activity’.

    Although I’m sure ‘the characteristics of human populations, such as size, growth, density, distribution, and vital statistics’ certainly played a factor, geography wins out in the end.

  61. 61.

    rilkefan

    October 20, 2005 at 8:55 pm

    I’d argue that the higher standard of living, the larger electoral count, and the even D/R split are more important, but probably that depends on what one’s measuring.

  62. 62.

    Otto Man

    October 20, 2005 at 9:13 pm

    I can’t stop laughing over Tall Dave’s assertion that since Jeb Bush thought the federal response was so good, then that settles things. Christ, that’s funny.

    Speaking of the Florida responses last year, they are instructive since they show what the federal government can do when it puts its mind to it. From the current issue of the Atlantic:

    Imagine if, in advance of Hurricane Katrina, thousands of trucks had been waiting with water and ice and medicine and other supplies. Imagine if 4,000 National Guardsmen and an equal number of emergency aid workers from around the country had been moved into place, and five million meals had been ready to serve. Imagine if scores of mobile satellite-communications stations had been prepared to move in instantly, ensuring that rescuers could talk to one another. Imagine if all this had been managed by a federal-and-state task force that not only directed the government response but also helped coordinate the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, and other outside groups.

    Actually, this requires no imagination: it is exactly what the Bush administration did a year ago when Florida braced for Hurricane Frances. Of course the circumstances then were very special: it was two months before the presidential election, and Florida’s twenty-seven electoral votes were hanging in the balance. It is hardly surprising that Washington ensured the success of “the largest response to a natural disaster we’ve ever had in this country.” The president himself passed out water bottles to Floridians driven from their homes.

    Too bad for Louisiana and Mississippi it wasn’t an election year.

    Of course, this article was written by Richard Clarke, so I’m sure that negates everything he has to say, right?

  63. 63.

    scs

    October 20, 2005 at 11:20 pm

    the confirmation of a Supreme Court justice who has no idea what the Constitution says.

    First of all, I doubt that’s true. But it wouldn’t really even matter even if it were true, for the sake of argument. People have judged her from day one before they ever really knew anything of substance about her. They judged her because she had never been a judge and went to a non-Ivy League school and in my opinion, because she wasn’t male, three things which are NOT required to be a Justice. Every one wants mindless consistency I guess, it comforts them. They want the same old boxes checked each time and then they will be comforted that they are making a good decision. Never mind selecting a justice who has had a lifetime of real world experience in managing law firms, town councils, running the bar association, and in the top levels of the White House. And all as a woman in earlier times which certainly adds a little edge to the experience.

    Nooooo. They want a dude who has been sitting around in an ivory tower and a circuit court, removed from all real life for his whole career, living as some sort of omnipotent dictator handing down sentences and writing high falluting opinions on them that no average person and most lawyers will ever read. THAT is quality to them! People love group think. Bush should have known better I guess.

  64. 64.

    CaseyL

    October 21, 2005 at 1:36 am

    “Nooooo. They want a dude who has been sitting around in an ivory tower and a circuit court, removed from all real life for his whole career, living as some sort of omnipotent dictator handing down sentences and writing high falluting opinions on them that no average person and most lawyers will ever read.”

    scs, I’m not sure what you meant by that.

    Do you mean that having little or no understanding of Constitutional issues is acceptable in someone who will have ultimate authority to interpret Constitutional issues?

    How would that work, exactly?

    Do you pick your doctors on the basis of their not knowing very much about medicine?

    Also, you seem to have missed out on the latest depth charges.

    In her questionnaire, Miers mentioned the necessity to uphold “proportional representation requirements.” That one alone caused many conservatives’ heads to explode, since “proportional representation requirements” means “quotas,” which are anathema to them.

    She’s been asked to show the Judiciary Committee her legalwritings,esp. legal writings associated with constitutional issues. The writings she’s produced show a mediocre mind with a mediocre understanding of constitutional issues.

    There’s also some issue about Miers’ capacity for upholding any law, not just Constitutional law. The Texas law firm she so famously headed got into repeated trouble for financial malfeasance:

    Under Miers’ leadership, [Locke, Liddell & Sapp] represented the head of a “foreign currency trading company [that] was allegedly a Ponzi scheme.” The law-firm admitted that it “knew in March 1998 that $ 8 million in [the company’s] losses hadn’t been reported to investors” but didn’t tell regulators…the firm was forced to pay $22 million to settle a suit asserting that “it aided a client in defrauding investors.”

    “This wasn’t an isolated incident, either. The Austin American-Statesman reported in 2001 that Miers’ lawfirm was forced to pay another $8 million for a similar scheme to defraud investors. The suit, which dealt with actions the firm took under Miers in the late 1990s, was again quite troubling. As the 9/20/00 Texas Lawyer reported, Miers’ firm helped a now-convicted con man “defraud investors and allowed the firm’s [bank] account to be used as a ‘conduit.'” The suit said “money from investors that went into the firm’s trust account was deposited into [the con man’s] bank accounts and was used to pay for his ‘expensive toys.’

    …oh, and Miers somehow omitted any mention of any of that in her questionnaire, or in any conversations with Senators.

    So what we seem to have here is someone who doesn’t have a better-than-average understanding of Constitutional law, someone who doesn’t seem to have any consistent philosophy of law, and someone who doesn’t seem to have very much respect for the law.

    A perfect Bush crony, in other words.

    But how does that make her a good choice for the SCOTUS?

  65. 65.

    McMartin

    October 21, 2005 at 4:11 am

    “Sheesh, kids these days. In my day, we taunted our classmates like “Thus have I boxed you ‘round the ears, scalawag,” and we were perfectly happy.”

    I feel it necessary to point out that “pwnt” is for when you boxed them SOUNDLY `round the ears.

  66. 66.

    Tractarian

    October 21, 2005 at 7:25 am

    scs is channeling Roman Hruska

    “Even if he was mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren’t they, and a little chance? We can’t have all Brandeises and Cardozos and Frankfurters and stuff like that there.”

  67. 67.

    Shygetz

    October 21, 2005 at 9:38 am

    Hey scs, I’m not even a lawyer at all! Can I be a Supreme?

  68. 68.

    Zifnab

    October 21, 2005 at 11:32 am

    I mean, I’m with SCS on this one. Haven’t we all grown up being told that we can each be President if we just work hard and do our best and live a model American life? Why should this be any different for a Supreme Justice. After reviewing Mier’s record, I can only conclude that she’s done “a hellava job”. I mean, she’s a lawyer and she’s certainly well known by the President and, um… she’s female, which is certainly better than being not female. And… she’s… um… oh! Qualified. Yes, she’s very qualified. Somehow.

    I mean, she can’t be worse than Micheal Brown, right? Hell, just stick her next to Roberts and whenever he says something, she can just say “I agree.” That’ll work.

  69. 69.

    Sister Toldjah

    October 21, 2005 at 11:34 am

    Heh. I just made a jump myself – not off the ledge, but off the undecided fence and am now amongst the “no” crowd on the Miers nomination.

  70. 70.

    Another Jeff

    October 21, 2005 at 1:42 pm

    West Virginia is lucky their game with South Florida got postponed, because WVU was ripe for an upset. (I’m just seeing if John is still alive)

  71. 71.

    RA

    October 21, 2005 at 2:47 pm

    So killing unborn, unwanted children is a solution!? How about killing already born unwanted children. That solves a problem too. Then how about killing unwanted old people. They are just a drag on the family. Also, how about killing unwanted parents who are standing in the way of an earily retirement for all you selfish yuppies. Then we can clean up the streets by killing all the unwanted people who live in gang infested slums. That solves a huge propblem.

    I’m in favor of killing people who believe it is justified to kill innocent human life for convenience.

  72. 72.

    Defense Guy

    October 21, 2005 at 3:06 pm

    Dude, that’s a lot of killing. Maybe you should have a glass of milk and a nice nap first.

  73. 73.

    Shygetz

    October 21, 2005 at 3:14 pm

    Shorter RA (on all topics): “Someone must speak for the womb babies!”

  74. 74.

    Another Jeff

    October 21, 2005 at 3:15 pm

    I think RA’s point is that if you abort all black babies, the crime rate would go down.

  75. 75.

    Shygetz

    October 21, 2005 at 3:15 pm

    And RA, you just publically threatened to kill what probably amounts to a billion people or more. Nice job.

  76. 76.

    docG

    October 21, 2005 at 3:21 pm

    RA

    A fetus is NOT a child, it is but a potential child. Abortion does not kill a child. My wife and I’s fourth pregnancy sadly ended in spontaneous abortion (miscarriage)15 years ago. (My empty arms still teach me each day about the difference between a child and the potential child that a fetus is.) Does this mean Randall Terry and I should picket the Intelligent Designer?

    While I personally think induced abortion is an ugly choice of last resort, I don’t get to tell any woman what to do about a pregnancy. You don’t either, unless you are a woman, and then you are limited to choosing for one woman only.

  77. 77.

    Defense Guy

    October 21, 2005 at 3:25 pm

    It looks like someone else thinks killing is ok. More milk and naps are called for.

  78. 78.

    John S.

    October 21, 2005 at 4:11 pm

    This entire administration thinks killing is ok (as long as it isn’t fetuses). I think more milk and naps are definitely called for, but I’m not sure it will do much good.

  79. 79.

    Steve S

    October 21, 2005 at 4:32 pm

    Republicans believe the right to life begins at conception, and ends at birth.

  80. 80.

    Defense Guy

    October 21, 2005 at 4:40 pm

    Democrats smell of elderberries. It’s all relative really.

  81. 81.

    Krista

    October 21, 2005 at 5:22 pm

    While I personally think induced abortion is an ugly choice of last resort, I don’t get to tell any woman what to do about a pregnancy. You don’t either, unless you are a woman, and then you are limited to choosing for one woman only.

    EXACTLY! Spot on! If the pro-life movement could only acknowledge that the vast majority of pro-choicers feel that way, I think it would make the debate a lot more sensitive and productive.

  82. 82.

    Krista

    October 21, 2005 at 5:52 pm

    And now I’m off for milk and a nap.

    Actually, a Grolsch and then a hot shower, but it’s still pretty restorative.

  83. 83.

    John S.

    October 21, 2005 at 5:53 pm

    Democrats smell of elderberries. It’s all relative really.

    And your mother was a hamster…

  84. 84.

    SeesThroughIt

    October 21, 2005 at 6:11 pm

    This “milk and nap” plan people keep talking about…can the milk be chocolate, and can the nap be of the power variety? If so, it has my full support.

  85. 85.

    Sojourner

    October 21, 2005 at 6:41 pm

    EXACTLY! Spot on! If the pro-life movement could only acknowledge that the vast majority of pro-choicers feel that way, I think it would make the debate a lot more sensitive and productive.

    Why do “pro-lifers” love the fetus but don’t care about the child? Because the issue is about sex, not about life.

  86. 86.

    CaseyL

    October 21, 2005 at 8:55 pm

    Why do “pro-lifers” love the fetus but don’t care about the child? Because the issue is about sex, not about life.

    That’s most of the reason. There’s another, a reason specific to fundies, that doesn’t get much attention, and should.

    The apocalyptic branch of fundamentalism – the ones who know, just know the Second Coming is nigh – believe certain conditions must be fulfilled first.

    One of those conditions concerns souls. Some fundie sects (Mormonism for sure, possibly others) believe God has already created all the souls for all the humans who will ever be, and that those souls wait their turn to be born into bodies. Armageddon can’t start until everyone’s been born. What happens after birth is irrelevant: the newborn can die immediately or live to a happy old age. The soul, having inhabited a mortal body (even if only for a moment) goes back to Heaven as an adult, a soldier of God ready to take part in the Final Conflict.

    So a fetus who doesn’t get born not only deprives a soul of a body, but also delays the End Times. When fundies rant about “40 million murders since Roe!” they’re actually ranting about all those unenlisted Christian soldiers.

  87. 87.

    Kimmitt

    October 21, 2005 at 10:16 pm

    There are two kinds of pro-lifers:

    1) Those who are cool with abortion in the case of rape and incest. These folks are all about control of sexuality; “good girls” who didn’t do anything wrong are allowed to take care of business, but “bad girls” who did do something wrong should be forced to deal with consequences. They tend be really into fag-hating, too.

    2) Those who are not cool with abortion in the case of rape and incest. These folks are generally good people whose thoughts on morality have backed them into an absurd corner and who are not willing to reexamine their assumptions — or who are so horrified by parental notification laws that they have a visceral reaction to the debate.

  88. 88.

    SeesThroughIt

    October 21, 2005 at 10:36 pm

    Why do “pro-lifers” love the fetus but don’t care about the child? Because the issue is about sex, not about life.

    Very true, and I have seen some wingers actually slip and be somewhat honest about it, too. Really, despite all their inflamed rhetoric about “right to life” and “culture of life” and all this other bullshit, what they hate is “irresponsible sex” (which, of course, is any premarital sex), so by proxy, they hate abortion, birth control, sex ed, etc. because to them, these things enable and even encourage “irresponsible” sex. So they want the government to tell the citizens how and when they can have sex (and, in the case of homosexuals, with whom they can have sex, the answer being “not the gender you’re attracted to, sorry”). Of course, this is in direct conflict with the alleged conservative value of keeping the government off people’s backs and not wanting a nanny state, but nobody ever accused wingers of being logical.

    Also, I agree with Kimmit above.

  89. 89.

    rilkefan

    October 22, 2005 at 12:54 am

    Leon Kass hating on sex. Well, really hating on love.

  90. 90.

    Another Jeff

    October 22, 2005 at 8:51 am

    There are two kinds of pro-lifers:

    1) Those who are cool with abortion in the case of rape and incest. These folks are all about control of sexuality; “good girls” who didn’t do anything wrong are allowed to take care of business, but “bad girls” who did do something wrong should be forced to deal with consequences. They tend be really into fag-hating, too.

    2) Those who are not cool with abortion in the case of rape and incest. These folks are generally good people whose thoughts on morality have backed them into an absurd corner and who are not willing to reexamine their assumptions—or who are so horrified by parental notification laws that they have a visceral reaction to the debate.

    Wow, i consider myself pro-choice, but that has to be about the most idiotic over-simplification that i’ve ever seen.

  91. 91.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    October 22, 2005 at 10:28 am

    Not speaking legally about abortion, but speaking morally here.

    Abortion is not only justifiable–but completely moral–even in cases of rape, incest, or in which the life of the mother is not threatened. The choice belongs to the individual, since she is the one who has to carry the child for 9 months, and the one whose life is going to be the most affected.

    A fetus in the first 22 weeks is not a being unto itself, so therefore abortion is not killing. According to a majority of medical experts, the fetus is not sentient, and therefore, is not self-aware, cannot feel sensation–or pain–before the 22nd week of the pregnancy. The reason for this is because before the 22nd week, the central nervous system is not complete and the fetus is not a self-aware being. Therefore, it is completely moral to have an abortion during this time.

    Now, I’m sure there are people who disagree with me, and there are a small number of experts who claim the fetus is self-aware and pain can be felt after the 7th week. However, the vast majority of medical experts claim that pain cannot be felt until at least the 22nd week because the synaptic connections of the central nervous system have not been formed yet.

    Since the fetus is not sentient and the fetus cannot feel pain within this period, the decision to terminate the pregnancy is completely moral–regardless of what anyone says.

  92. 92.

    The Disenfranchised Voter

    October 22, 2005 at 10:29 am

    that was suppose to read “even in case when there is not rape, incest, or when the mother’s life is not in jeopardy.”

  93. 93.

    Kimmitt

    October 24, 2005 at 6:47 pm

    Wow, i consider myself pro-choice, but that has to be about the most idiotic over-simplification that i’ve ever seen.

    Hey, now. I’m sure you’ve seen oversimplifications far more idiotic than anything I could hope to generate.

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