In today’s politically correct world, any observation of race can be called ‘racism’:
Air Force coach Fisher DeBerry was reprimanded by the top commander of the academy on Wednesday after making statements about black athletes and recruiting.
DeBerry issued a public apology, saying “I realize the things I said might have been hurtful to many people and I want everyone to understand that I never intended to offend anyone.”
DeBerry raised the topic Monday while discussing Air Force’s 48-10 loss to TCU, telling The Gazette of Colorado Springs the academy needed to recruit faster players and noting, “you don’t see many minority athletes in our program.”
Asked about it Tuesday, DeBerry noted that TCU had more black players than Air Force.
“It just seems to me to be that way,” he said. “African-American kids can run very well. That doesn’t mean that Caucasian kids and other descents can’t run, but it’s very obvious to me that they run extremely well.”
Quick, other than Jason Sehorn, who is notable only for sleeping with Angie Harmon, name me a white cornerback in the NFL. Name me a white safety other than Adam Archuleta. Name five current white wide receivers (and yes, Tim Dwight is quick). Name five white running backs. Do pictures like this look familiar:
Does anything stand out in that picture?
Noticing something does not make one a racist, and this coach had no reason to apologize.
Mac Buckets
So now it’s racist to say that a minority is obviously better at something than the majority is? Jeff G. is going to have a fit, if he hasn’t already.
The Disenfranchised Voter
His comments most certainly are racist comments…
However, they are not offensive in the slightest. I don’t see the big fuss.
ppGaz
It was an idiot thing to say. Nobody who knows the PC history of the subject could possibly not know that his ass would be in a sling over the statement he made.
That being true, and it is, then since there is absolutely no reason on earth why the man needed to say the stupid thing, I say, screw him. The man is a fool, in the same class as the fat fool pig Bill Bennett. The fact that a statement can be defended technically does not remove the dunce cap from these idiots’ heads.
What’s more, this is a non-story and deserves no attention whatever. No he’s not a racist, he’s just a fucking idiot. So by all means, let’s erect a statue to the dumb shit.
John Cole
So in PPGAZ’s world, even if something isn’t offensive or incorrect, people shouldn’t say it for fear of, well, people like PPGAZ and the PC POLICE.
You are part of the problem.
ppGaz
No, you damned fool. When you live in the public eye and speak to the public, you will be judged by a certain standard, one which has been applied over and over again in just this type of situation. Whether it’s right or wrong, a bullshit argument. That’s just the way it is.
The man is a goddamned fool, and I don’t know what the name is for what you are doing. Explain it. Making the world safe for college coaches to go out in public and say that black people run really fast? WHAT THE FUCK, John? What do you think you are defending here?
A pathetic post, really. Gratuitous and stupid.
Flagwaver
Gosh, John, I guess you really got ppGaz’ panties in a wad (not that that’s much of an accomplishment). Too bad he doesn’t descend from high dudgeon long enough to actually read, and think about, both your post, and Jeff Goldstein’s excellent posts on meaning and reference, and realize that he IS part of the problem. As long as the perpetually offended control our use of the language, our language will be bowdlerized, and certain topics will remain imponderables, or at least “undiscussables,” whether or not there are valid lines of inquiry foreclosed as a result. See, also, Larry Summers and his totally defensible and rational remarks regarding women in math and science.
And, to ppGaz, a hearty, “Fuck you and the horse you rode in on. I’ll effin’ well use WHATEVER language I choose, to discuss WHATEVER topics I deem relevant, and if you don’t like it, you can kiss my rosy red ass.”
Darrell
So anyone claiming that in general, black girls are prettier (‘superior’ beauty) than white girls would be guilty of racism
jg
Why would I care?
I think he was right, and its his right to say it, and that it’s the right of others to be offended, and that he should’ve known better.
IN terms of talking about race relations we’re at the level of teenagers in the ‘awkward silence’ phase of dating. Its uncomfortable but we have to talk through it not go silent.
ppGaz
All hail John Cole, who shall make it safe for college coaches to go forth and say that “black people really fun fast.”
Now THAT’S something really noble, honorable and worth doing.
Jesus H. Christ, you couldn’t invent some of the shit you see around here.
“Coaches everywhere can now talk freely about the speed and dexterity of black people, thanks to the courageous efforts of John Cole.”
Amazing. Absolutely amazing. And the guy considers himself knowledgeable about “communication.”
I got news for you John …. the world is not a college classroom. It doesn’t behave like one and it isn’t sitting out there waiting for you to teach it something.
jg
Yup. Sayng you prefer blondes is the same I guess.
I think you guys are missing ppGaz’s point. He’s not saying the issue should be suppressed by the PC police. He’s saying the speaker should have known what he said would cause a firestorm and found a different way to make his point, his point will now be lost because he mentioned Nazis, er I mean race.
Darrell
ppgaz is a textbook example of the “terminally offended”. Take a pill or somethin
ppGaz
You know what, Darrell? This really is the place for you. That is without a doubt the dumbest comparison I’ve ever seen from you, and that is really saying something.
This place is ideal for you, and you for it. Really, I mean it. If I were John I’d put your picture on the masthead.
ppGaz
Congratulations, John, you’ve invented the Darrell Blog.
I’m sure the book publishers will be at your door any minute now with their checkbooks open …..
Great googly fucking moogly ….
ppGaz
Thank goodness somebody has a brain around here.
Not that this place will benefit from it, though, if this stupid thread is any indication.
How many thousands of wasted words did we see here in this vast desert of ideas concerning Durbin and his Nazi remarks? And then fast forward to this unbelievable, stupid thread.
You can’t make this crap up. Nobody would believe it.
Darrell
My mental image of ppgaz
Flagwaver
You called it, Darrell. “Terminally offended” describes ole wedgy drawers to a T. Just in case you missed the “nuance,” ppGaz (you folks being ALL ABOUT nuance, of course), Jeff G’s point (and John’s, at least in part, I presume) is EXACTLY that totally innocent statements, such as the ones noted, DO create a shitstorm from the perpetually offended, such as yourself. Just because a bunch of idjits get their panties in a wad whenever anyone mentions race, doesn’t mean I have to, or should, accommodate their stupidity by self-censoring comments that any RATIONAL person would find neither offensive or inappropriate. FOAD.
ppGaz
Jesus, Darrell. You are a fucking abomination of a human being.
Good work, John. Darrell is your mascot now. That’s Darrell, the serial liar and well known idiot, he’s behind you 100 percent.
I say again, absolutely amazing. You COULD NOT make this crap up.
Brad R.
Does anything stand out in that picture?
Yes- only the guy in lane 7 isn’t on steroids.
ppGaz
You stupid jerk, CAN YOU READ?
That’s what I said. Is that a “shitstorm” to you?
Vladi G
John Lynch.
Vladi G
ppGaz, keep in mind, Darrell is a serial liar. He can’t help himself. It’s like a drug to him.
Matt
I don’t see why anyone’s surprised that people are uncomfortable discussing inherent differences between races in this country, and that those with high profile jobs can find themselves in trouble for pointing them out. We frown upon such talk, and perhaps rightly so. After all, it’s a short leap from discussing a perceived superiority in a minority to turning the tables and pointing out their “genetic inferiority” in other (usually more important) respects. And, hey, you’re just “noticing something,” right?
ppGaz
Yes, I know. I spent an evening watching him spin a spaghetti bowl of lies …. for no particular reason other than it would have been slightly inconvenient for him to admit he was wrong. What an ass.
Flagwaver
Oh, GOD, NO, ppGaz. No shitstorm, here. If this is such a non-story, whence comest all the
“That being true, and it is, then since there is absolutely no reason on earth why the man needed to say the stupid thing, I say, screw him. The man is a fool, in the same class as the fat fool pig Bill Bennett. The fact that a statement can be defended technically does not remove the dunce cap from these idiots’ heads.”
and the
“Amazing. Absolutely amazing. And the guy considers himself knowledgeable about “communication.””
and the
“You stupid jerk, CAN YOU READ?”
And the answer would be, ppGaz, that YES I can read . . . I read all of your hyperventilation about this “non-story.” For a non-story, it sure seemed to get YOUR panties in a knot, didn’t it???
Fuckin’ imbecile.
aop
On the one hand, it is certainly true that, pragmatically speaking, any public figure should know better than to make a statement like this. Every year, like clockwork, some sports commentator does a Jimmy the Greek and falls on his sword. It’s just incredibly stupid that, by this point, guys like DeBerry don’t know better.
On the other hand, is what he said factually untrue? Does anyone really doubt that black people dominate at sports? Take a look at any sport besides ice hockey and bowling and say it’s untrue. I mean, you’d have to be stupid or a liar to deny it. So, if they dominate at sports that mostly involve running fast, it probably means they run faster than other races. Could this have something to do with, among other things, selective breeding during slavery? Where, for hundreds of years, physical weakness was weeded out in an effort to produce superslaves? Probably. Is it racist to say so? I guess if the definition of racism by today’s paradoxically unenlightened PC standards is “to notice any difference whatsoever between races,” then yes, it is.
Fortunately, I’m not a commentator for CBS Sports…
Slide
so if we abort all black babies we would have no criminials or running backs?
Actually, I with John on this one. He has nothing to apologize for other than having a political tin ear.
Matt
I was the white kid on an all black football team. Our coached always said that we had a speed advantage when we played a teams that were predominantly white. No one said they were racist.
jg
Chris Rock said that was the reason in one of his standup routines.
NoName
“That doesn’t mean that Caucasian kids and other descents can’t run…” Other descents? John’s post is a good example of how blind many of are to racism and bigotry. I plead guilty myself.
Coach DeBerry could have just pointed out that TCU has a lot of team speed, but he didn’t did he? Jimmy the Greek got himself fired for making similar “compliments”. Subconcious racism is still racism.
metalgrid
Geeze, from reading that, I thought he was being accused of racism against white people for saying that blacks are more proficient at running than whites.
Kimmitt
Based on my experience as a tennis fan, all I know is that white people are really good at hitting things.
ppGaz
No you didn’t, dumbbell. My rant was about John and his stupid post, not the coach. The coach is just a damned fool, nobody really cares.
But the gratuitous pageview-ginning crap on this blog is really tiresome. I’ve said so before and I am saying it again, and if you don’t like it, too bad. I’m right, and you’re wrong.
You are now participating in a blog where the great contribution today is to make the world safe for college coaches who don’t have enough sense not to go around saying that black people really run fast.
How frigging embarassing and stupid can you get?
You should be ashamed of yourself, really.
Black people really run fast.
aop
But his point wasn’t just that TCU is faster than Air Force, his point was that TCU is faster for a reason, and that reason, he’s saying, is that black people, on average, run faster than white people. Is that racist, or maybe a better question is, is it racist to say it even if it’s true? You tell me.
kl
Somebody get this man some blood-pressure medicine and a thesaurus.
Tractarian
The only disturbing thing about DeBerry’s comment is that it seems he just realized this.
KC
Sometimes I worry about you, Ppgaz.
Mike S
Funny how many of the people complaining about the “pc police” in this situation scream with outrage when Dean says something about the GOP.
Personally I don’t give a crap about the comment. Antone who went to school saw black kids picked first for sports.
aop
What school did Antone go to?
The Disenfranchised Voter
False analogy.
Now if you were to say black girls are prettier than white girls because they are black, then that would be racist.
I don’t think the coach is a racists, just that his comments were racist–by definition. I do not find his comments offensive, and thus he has no need to apologize.
The Disenfranchised Voter
a racist*
Baron Elmo
GOD, not another mundane PC controversy, PLEASE. I’ve barely recovered from the brouhaha about the pink locker room. This latest installment makes me want to lie down on the spot.
Once more, to my fellow lefties: political correctness is the reverse image of fundamentalist Christianity… both of which serve as the domains of puckered-sphincter types who live to wallop the less “enlightened” with the THAT’S NOT RIGHT stick.
It’s annoying and humorless, and provides ammunition galore to those who bash leftists for being shrill killjoys… and endless amusement to them that spew offensive crap (Coulter, Savage, Malkin, etc) just for the fun of watching uptight liberals squeak and gibber with rage. No more, please. If we on the left stopped succumbing to apoplexy at the likes of Coulter and her idiocies, she’d topple into the abyss of oblivion overnight.
That said, it never ceases to amaze me how many public figures manage to step in that same politically loaded bear trap that Coach DeBerry blundered into. Doesn’t say much for his common sense, does it?
Mr Furious
Wow, ppGaz is really off the rails on this one. Especially since it’s a “non-story.”
Here’s the deal as I see it. What this coach was pointing out is something anecdotally true to most people. I’d venture to say that if somebody did an involved study based on pro sports and big-time college sports it might actually bear out in the data. So, in essence he’s correct.
But ppGaz is right. The guy is a jackass for bringing this up in an interview. He is a major college coach. While there may be a debate about black athletic superiority, there is no debate about the hot water you lower yourself into if you start pontificating about it.
When you run an athletic program at a college, you have a responsibility to make sure that this kind of crap stays out of the discussion. Blacks outrunning whites is a slippery slope back to whites are better quarterbacks. Do your recruiting, run your 40s and if the best athletes on your team happen to turn out to be black, fine. But the minute you start talking like this, it’s fair to speculate that you make personel decisions and recruiting decisions based on race.
The Astros are in the World Series without a single black player on the roster. Do I think that’s because the team is racist? No, of course not. But if the GM or Phil Garner were fool enough to say something about whites being more patient at the plate, that would be a problem.
Obviously DeBerry is not a Klansman. This guy is guilty of being a dumbass who made insensitive remarks from a position that requires more brains than that. Yes, I know coaches aren’t required to be diplomats, but, to me, especially in college, doing better than this is not too much to expect.
ppGaz
This isn’t about “PC” at all. It’s about bitching about something you don’t like, and calling it a PC issue.
John represents that it’s, you know, awful, that a college coach can’t go around saying that those pickaninnies reall can run and jump and everything, without someone playing the “race card.”
But actually, the truth is, the coach is just a tin-eared ass who found out the hard way that there is a reality to the world he lives in and he an either respect it, or he will have to eat shit and bark at the moon. Just like everyone else does all day every day. We all tailor our speech for the situations we’re in. It’s called having common sense.
PC? The real PC part is that a guy like John doesn’t dare pass up an opportunity to snark over this meaningless damn story. The PC part is that the knee-jerk thugs of the right will come in here and take baseball bats at anyone who dares to all John, or anyone else, on this shit.
The coach is an ass. Hardly anyone would know or care, but the blog world will see that plenty of people do now.
This is beyond stupid. It’s Darrell-stupid.
And KC? F**k you.
ppGaz
Yes, I am.
stickler
I think I agree with Mr. *gaz, though his high dudgeon alarms me a bit.
But that, to me, sums it all up. Damn, that’s like a kind of Kelvin-scale for stupid. A 10 on the scale of Absolute Stupidity.
ppGaz
Snort. “High dudgeon” alarms you?
Darrell alarms me.
kl
An apt summation.
ppGaz
Those black people sure have kinky hair, eh kl?
I’m not a racist, I’m stating a fact.
Get it? And in the new PC-free world, I can say things like that and I ain’t gotta apologize to anybody, ever.
An’ iff’n I do, righty bloggers will be there to defend me.
What a great country!
kl
And rhythm.
Just Some Guy
Also a product of slavery.
ppGaz
And big lips for playing the trumpet (Satchmo!).
Did I mention, some of my best friends are trumpet players.
Laura
There used to be very few black quarterbacks. And the reason had nothing to do with skills or potential. It had to do with coaches stereotyping athletes, and therefore limiting their opportunities. To me, that’s why what DeBerry said was so stupid.
The problem with a coach of his caliber saying something like this is that it influences how kids are coached from a very young age. In the U.S., black kids are told they should be sprinters and white kids should be the distance runners. If you only saw U.S. track and field, you’d probably determine that white guys are the best long distance runners. The Kenyans blow that thinking to pieces. But in the U.S, the best distance runners do tend to be white. That’s not because of nature. It’s because when kids go out for track in 7th grade, there are too many coaches with DeBerry’s mentality. I’m not saying there aren’t some real physical differences between people of different races, but if more black kids were encouraged to be distance runners and more white kids were encouraged to sprint, that picture above would look a lot different. Of course, it’s not just coaching. For example, the lack of inner city baseball fields has resulted in less black players in MLB. On the other hand, there are a lot of Latin American players today, not because they’re naturally inclined to play baseball, but because baseball is absolutely huge the Domincan Republic and Panama, so every kid grows up playing. Nature’s part of the equation, but there’s a whole lot of nuture that’s happened by the time an athlete gets to college and plays football or runs track. But DeBerry’s statement feeds the stereotype that it is all nature. And that ends up restricting the options of all kids of all races. He shouldn’t be vilified. But what he said isn’t worth defending either.
kl
Their skin tends to be dark as well.
ppGaz
My grandmother believed that if you held your hand up to a light, and you had Darkie blood in your veins, you could see it. And then you’d know that you were part Darkie.
She never got her own blog, though.
kl
Well, to be fair, she did live through the Civil War.
ppGaz
Heh, not quite. But you meant “the First Civil War,” right?
kl
I meant the Ken Burns miniseries.
rilkefan
What Laura said.
Also, the Bennett analogy is wrong. He was trying (somewhat ineptly) to condemn racist attitudes. Unless this coach’s point is something to the effect that his school’s racist reputation is keeping away “minorities” (is he talking about Latinos or Asians or …?), bringing race into the conversation is just stupid.
Aaron
Ahem. There has been some research into sports performance and genetics. Is anyone here going to deny that genes affect your athletic performance?
Note this does not mean skin color can determine any given individual’s skill, but:
Eastern Europeans have body types amenable to weight lifting. Some Africans have body types and muscle types better for running.
Here’s the science:
http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0657.htm
BTW, if I am wrong, then shouldn’t we have some quota system installed in professional sports to encourage diversity?
Aaron
Also, it’s funny that those who so disparage anti-evolution people would themselves not believe that evolution would natually create certain body types for their environments. (or play some game where we can’t talk about it.)
Veeshir
I always like watching ppGaz call Darrell stupid and a liar without ever having actually having addressed any of his points. That just makes me laugh.
Since that part’s over, can we get to the part of the thread where ppGaz, Krista and Mike S start telling each other how brilliant they all are?
I find that very entertaining.
Veeshir
Is this racist?
Or is it okay because it’s a black man doing it?
Nikki
Speaking as a black woman (and having read the entire article)–yup, it’s ok because it’s a black man doing it.
What, jealous that you can’t?
Shygetz
Darrell mumbled:
Wow, Veeshir, you sure got ppGaz there. He never addressed one of those salient points that Darrell brought up. And Darrell is a serial liar, and probably stupid to boot.
The difference is, the PC police aren’t trying to make it illegal to be insensitive, just unpopular.
The guy was dumb for saying it (sorry if you don’t like it, Cole, but that’s the world we live in). While it is probably technically true that the average black person runs faster than the average white person, I would hope that he’s not recruiting the average person. The most correct thing to say (not politically correct, but technically correct) is that we need to recruit faster players. I’m sure he doesn’t care what color they are.
Maybe he was trying (in a clumsy way) to point out that Air Force has difficulty attracting black students in general, which of course hurts football recruiting. But regardless, he said something he probably knew he shouldn’t. I don’t see the big deal about it, but then again, the moment I heard his comments on ESPN, I knew exactly what the rest of the story was going to be.
Veeshir
Nope, I think it’s despicable and I also think that it says very bad things about you that you could actually type that response.
As for Shygetz, how about an example of Darrell’s lying. Multiple examples since you typed this
And Darrell is a serial liar,
C’mon, let’s see you back up your statement. Oh wait, I forgot, you’ll just insult me, insult Darrell, never, ever, ever back up your statements and then congratulate yourself on your brilliance.
Jay
But actually, the truth is, the coach is just a tin-eared ass who found out the hard way that there is a reality to the world he lives in and he an either respect it, or he will have to eat shit and bark at the moon.
This is classic. The coach had to find out that the ‘reality’ he lives in is a country where the perpetually offended are ready to start telling everybody how offended they are whenever the need arises.
I tired of it all. I’m tired of people looking for reasons to be offended. I’m tired of people like ppqaz defending the ignorance of others. I’m tired of the speech police who tell us that even though what somebody says is right, they shouldn’t have said it because some ignorant fool who never took the time to understand speech and vocabulary is going to take offense at it.
Enough already.
Jay
sorry if you don’t like it, Cole, but that’s the world we live in)
See what I mean? Sorry John! We live in a world dominated by ignorance and stupidity. Conform John, conform!!
Shygetz
Multiple lies of Darrell, hmmm. Ok, I’ll bite, and then wait for your concession and apology. First, from the Stem Cell thread:
Totally untrue, as shown by the federal audit process. Professors do not pocket the change from research grants. This was pointed out, and Darrell continued to state that it occurred regularly.
And then this recent gem, from the 2000 Dead thread:
Read the linked Georgetown Univ. speech, and you will see that Kerry was calling the insurgents “antagonists”. Here, I’ll post the relevent quote for the lazy.
“It is true that our soldiers increasingly fight side by side with Iraqis willing to put their lives on the line for a better future. But history shows that guns alone do not end an insurgency. The real struggle in Iraq – Sunni versus Shiia – will only be settled by a political solution, and no political solution can be achieved when the antagonists can rely on the indefinite large scale presence of occupying American combat troops.”
Those are multiple factual lies of Darrell, as you stipulated. I insult Darrell because he deserves it. I didn’t insult you in this thread (go ahead, look it up). I await your apology.
Shygetz
Hey, Jay, you want to live in Utopia, please, by all means do. Send me a postcard, because I sure as hell don’t live there. But as it stands now, what he said was dumb. As a spokesperson for a Federal university, he shouldn’t have said it. Maybe it’s not right that he shoulnd’t have said it, but that’s reality. You want to change reality, please do. But until you do, you reap what you sow. Like I said, the moments I heard the words come out of his mouth, I knew what the response was going to be. Either he didn’t know, which means he was dumb, or he did know and said it anyway, in which case maybe he is being principled, but will still take a beating for it. I guess I will amend my statement; if he made that statement out of some protest against PC thinking, then he isn’t dumb, but he still deserves to get in trouble (he wasn’t hired to make that kind of protest).
pleasewakeupy'all
ppGaz’s initial volley:
What’s more, this is a non-story and deserves no attention whatever. No he’s not a racist, he’s just a fucking idiot. So by all means, let’s erect a statue to the dumb shit.
Agreed.
15 entries later, I gotta ask, why bother?
goonie bird
What ever became of FREEDOM OF SPEACH has it gone that far that you cant use words the offend minorities? its time to end this stupid PC nonsense and end rediclous speach code and screw JESSIE JACKASSON
Shygetz
Freedom of speech means that the government won’t pass laws saying that you can’t say something. It doesn’t, and shouldn’t, mean that you can say whatever you want without criticism. RTFC (Read The F*cking Constitution).
Jay
Shygetz, is has nothing to do with me wanting to live in Utopia. I just want to live where people aren’t looking for reasons to be offended.
And it isn’t just African-Americans. Mexicans were offended at the Taco Bell commercials with the chihuahua that said, “Yo quiero Taco Bell?” Italians are offended by ‘The Sopranos.’ Native Americans offended by Braves fans doing the ‘tomahawk chop.’ Homosexuals are offended by television and movie characters that are straight reacting in horror and repulsion to somebody thinking they’re gay. Fox Movie Channel stopped showing ‘Charlie Chan’ movies because Asians were offended by them.
I could sit here all day with tons of examples. With everything going on in the world and with all the other things people have at their disposal to occupy their time, they consistenly waste their lives telling everybody how offended they are at something. I’m just sick of it already.
metalgrid
One can’t change it without confronting it. Good for him that he did. The more people that keep doing it, the faster it will lead to positive change.
Shygetz
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like PC either. But, in the modern climate, a public figure goes against it at his own peril. metalgrid, you say good for him (DeBerry) that he did…if I were his employer and I thought he said this on purpose to start a shitstorm, I would fire his ass. He wasn’t hired to make a statement about PC to the detriment of the image of the Air Force Academy. Either he was too dumb to guess the (obvious) effects of his statement, or he decided to make some kind of stand on his employers’ time. Either way, I won’t condemn him as a racist, but I won’t shed any tears over him either.
Aaron
Wait, so if it was a black coach, he could say that he needed more black players? Is that right Nikki?
Nikki
Wow, Jay, you’re tellling us that minorities have no right to be offended when stereotypical images of themselves are served up to the general public?
LOL! Did you forget you were living in America? A black coach would’ve made sure he had all the black players he neeeded either by (a) coaching at an all black school or (b) simply recruiting the black players without saying stupid shit to the press.
Krista
Okay, okay, okay!
ppGaz – BREATHE!
I agree that on occasion, political correctness can go way too far. That being said, whether you like it or not, we do live in a society that tries to be as politically correct as possible. And THAT being said, if you are a public figure, you have to keep in mind that anything that comes out of your mouth cannot be taken back, and therefore have to always think before you speak. It’s basic PR people…much easier to prevent fires than to put them out. So I don’t think that what the guy said is all that heinous, but as a public figure, in the P.C. society we live in, it was very imprudent (or dumb) of him to make any mention of race.
He just should not have gone there.
Veeshir
First lie isn’t a lie, it’s a difference of opinion. And a bunch of people agree with Darrell. Since you didn’t link to the thread I’ll surmise that maybe he meant the grad students get paid peanuts to do all the work while the prof gets paid much better and doesn’t do much? Could that be what he meant? I know that I assume that stuff like that happens all the time. Mostly because I know profs like that and know of profs like that and also because the grad students keep going on strike to get paid better. Google “GSEU strike”.
You see, “pocketing the change” means the prof gets paid the grant money and pays the grad student peanuts.
Second lie isn’t a lie. It might be taking the absolute worst definition of the word for Kerry, but that’s not lying.
I always think of one antagonist fighting another antagonist. For instance, in this setting we are antagonists. I know there’s a definition where the “antagonist” fights the “protagonist”, but that’s the secondary definition, not the first, and generally pertains to literature.
Not a lie, a difference in definition of a word.
That’s pretty weak.
And Grateful Cub chimes in:
. Is he/she lying too? Is he/she a serial liar too?
I happen to agree with Gratefulcub and also agree that what Kerry said could be taken to mean that our troops are antagonists. I just don’t see it as a negative and wouldn’t have typed what Darrell typed. Words have definitions and just because you don’t like the conclusion doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t use those words.
We are antagonizing jihadis the world over. By not being Wahhabbi Muslims and by not treating our women worse than domestic animals. I like antagonizing people who deserve it.
Different opinions aren’t lies, merely differences of opinion. But that’s what I expected from you, if you deigned to back up your statement.
That’s the lefty mindset toward conservatives, they’re dishonest until proven Hitler.
I didn’t ask you to provide proof that Darrell is stupid because I know your definition of stupid. It’s that same as your definition of “liar”.
Someone who disagrees with you
You’re exactly right, you didn’t insult me. Good work. Give yourself a gold-star, You actually exceeded my very low expectations.
Tony Alva
Not a smart statement from a coach of a premiere service academy. He’s probably regretting the hell out the whole thing right now. Why don’t we just leave it at that. He’s not racist, he a little ignorant. There’s a big difference.
All in all, the controversy only helps my cause to ensure that the Commander In Chief Trophy is returned to it rightful place at West Point NY this year.
On brave old Army Team
On to the fray
Fight on to victory
For that’s the fearless Army way….
Go Army Beat Air Force!!!
APF
I’m going to write twenty rabid posts about why this is so unimportant to me. The comments weren’t racist but I’ll continually imply that all you want to do is defend racist comments; I’ll also call everyone who doesn’t give me complete deference a fool, a fat fool, a damned fool, a goddamned fool. I am just a visitor to this site but I demand you post only those topics I approve of. MY OPINION MUST BE HEARD! DO NOT STIFLE MY DISSENT!
Shygetz
Veeshir–
Darrell said Kerry called our troops “antagonists.” (Quotes in original). He quoted Kerry saying something Kerry did not say. Kerry did not call them “antagonists.” It is a lie. The second is not a statement of opinion; saying that someone “pockets the rest” is a statement of fact; after underpaying graduate students (which is not in dispute), the professors take the left over money for their own (which is a lie). He was saying that professors use this method to illicitly get rich off of federal grants (i.e. “pocket the money”), which is also a lie. I told you which thread it was, you can look it up for yourself in the archive entitled “The Stem Cell Debate”. I assume GratefulCub didn’t read the speech, but mistakenly took Darrell’s word for what it said.
ppGaz
Are you kidding? Laughing my ass off. This whole thread is just so preposterous, and watching the knee-jerk reactions to my complaint … priceless.
Like I said, this ain’t about “PC”. PC has become a code phrase for the people who can’t stand the idea that stupid speech is not the same as free speech. Coach is free to say that the darkies can run fast. What the fools don’t realize is that other people are also free … to call coach a fucking idiot and embarrass the hell out of him.
Freedom of speech is also freedom to be shouted down. The people who cry “PC!” just can’t stand that, because for one thing, they just don’t get it.
The coach has learned his lesson. I think John Cole has yet to learn it.
APF
And you will learn it when, exactly?
Laura
Thanks for the link to that article Aaron. I love this kind of science. Talking about race in sports shouldn’t be taboo, but it also depends on the context. Most Americans have a whole mix of ancestry, so I can’t imagine looking at a 12 year old and knowing which sport they can potentially thrive in. My ancestors, that I know about, are French, Irish and British. But they came to North America in the 1600’s. 300+ years later, who knows what my ethnic heritage is. That article says East and West Africans have different body types. And most African Americans have American Indian and/or European ancestors, so while there might be tendencies among races, it’s a lot more complicated in a country like ours. I think it’s fascinating how genes are passed down, and how certain traits skip generations and then show up again. (I have no idea where my olive green eyes came from, for example.) The problem in the U.S. is that even though most of us have multiple racial heritages, a lot of Americans have a very limited idea of what race is. My sister-in-law is Panamanian. When she was back in Michigan, my genius uncle asked her if she was a good Mexican cook. She had never had Mexican food until she moved to Sacramento. But she has brown skin and speaks spanish, so of course she makes great tacos. And the other day, my co-worker was looking at a picture in the paper and said that a guy looked black but his name was Juan. She said blacks aren’t named Juan. (She’s African American). It never dawned on her that being latino has nothing to do with race. If we could talk about race without pigeon holing people, nobody would get offended. But for the most part, we can’t. And when it comes to sports, a lot of kids are pushed in certain directions because of their race. If my brown nephew wants to play American football, he should. And if my blue eyed, blond haired little sister wants to be a sprinter, she should. But probably more important to me, it’s not the subject, it’s the source. DeBerry is the same idiot who put a Christian banner in his locker room. Nevermind that the Air Force isn’t a private Christian college, he’s either too stupid to know his banner would alienate his non-Christian players or too insensitive to give a damn. I suspect it’s a combination of both. I’m a Christian, but that banner was far more infuriating than what he said about African Americans. But because of his history, I don’t trust that he’s trying to trigger a discussion on race. I think he’s simply stereotyping. And like I already said, that ends up limiting opportunities for kids.
Shygetz
The problem about stereotyping (even true stereotypes) is that it causes people to make ill-founded conclusions about individuals. If DeBerry wants faster players, he should recruit people based on their speed. Even if the average black person is faster than the average white person, you can still find a lot of slow black people.
Darrell
Yes, I did claim that, and it was an honest mistake. I scanned through that part of his speech too quickly. If I wanted to be “serial liar” about it, I wouldn’t have posted a link to his speech. Everything else in that post I stand by.
Speaking of serial liars, in the Stem cell thread Shygetz made this claim:
Given that I called him on this, asking for his citation proving that ‘all’ private technology (medical, microchip, wireless, manufacturing, etc.. ALL of it) is based on public science, Shygetz of course, having lied his ass off, never came up with the citation. No excuse for such serial lying when earlier in that same thread, Shygetz asserted the same thing and I called him on it. Shygetz wrote:
Shygetz, where is your citation proving that ALL private technology is based on publicly funded research??
If I make a mistake, and in the case of John Kerry it was a minor one, as his ‘truth to power’ quote was correct, I’ll admit it. As you can see based on Sygetz’s behavior, serial liars never do. It’s who they are. When I literally take apart half-wits like Shygetz, insults projecting their faults is all they have. He’s a kook obsessing over me. Doubt it? Re-read his obsessive claims
Darrell
Adding to your point, many Panamanians (1/4 or more I’d guess based on my visits there) are black.. very black. I’d say a majority of those from the Dominican Republic are too. Yet if you talk to them, they consider themselves latino/latina, not black.
Laura
That’s my point. I’m just too long-winded to make it that succinctly.
ppGaz
Bwaaaaaahahahaha! You mean, when will I let the baseball-bat-weilding righty crowd shout me down for daring to piss on their phony-baloney “PC” whining?
You should know the answer to that by now, amigo.
In your dreams. I’m right, and they’re wrong.
ppGaz
Point to you. THAT was funny.
Shygetz
I didn’t continue the discussion because I had to leave the thread (believe it or not, I have a life) and it was dead before I came back. I cannot individually cite the scientific background for every technological innovation because I don’t have the time or space. But I did refute every example you gave–the integrated circuit, wireless technology, all biotech/pharma, etc. Go back and reread the thread to find my examples. Take it on back, and you will find public science behind all of it at the basic science level, and often beyond. I will concede that there may be ancient technology that does not apply (knowing very little about prehistoric markets), but every technological innovation beginning from, say, ancient Greece has its foundation in public science. Give me one example of your choice (if you want detailed citations, I suggest something relatively modern) and I will demonstrate.
My only obsessive claim is that you apologize for saying that professors commit fraud by pocketing Federal grant money. You refuse to, and persist in this libelous lie. This, on top of your other deceitful and misleading posts, has led me to conclude that you are a serial liar and/or troll. But I wasn’t the first to bring that fact up in this post; I just concurred with someone else who pointed it out. Normally, I just ignore you now.
Darrell
That is a risk, but we all have to deal with imperfect, incomplete information. This is not utopia. Hence we make reasonable stereotypes on people all the time based on how they dress, how they talk, and in the case of running fast, it is entirely fair to point out that the fastest sprinters tend to be black, as John Cole’s pic at the top of this thread aptly demonstrates. Stereotypes can be quite useful, as long as you understand that not ALL people who talk or dress a certain way or whatever, will fit the stereotype
Leftist kooks try to inject racism into even the most innocent of remarks. Re-read this thread for ample proof of that
Darrell
This is another lie, because 1) you made the claim twice on the same thread and were called on it and 2) you obviously re-visited that thread again to dig up my old quotes
So again, you lied, and you refuse to admit it
That wasn’t your ‘only’ obsessive claim you dishonest prick. You are popping into threads calling me a ‘serial liar’ like the loon that you are
Professors receive grant money based in large part on the estimated number of hours the Prof will spend on the project. I have seen personnally cases in which the Profs then delegate “their” man-hours to grad students who are paid little or nothing, yet the prof pockets the money. I said the exact same thing in the other thread and I stand by it. No lie, it’s the truth
ppGaz
Oh oh, the thread has devolved into a Darrell Thing now.
Game over. Please exit through the door on your right. (Or, in my case, left).
Shygetz
I said it once, Oct. 24th, 3:41 (there’s another lie for you, Veeshir). I re-visited the thread, but it was dead when I got there which is why I didn’t continue it (as I said in the quote which you conveniently cut off).
Profs are paid usually not to do much bench work, but to administer the grant and supervise the graduate students (which you would know if you had any experience with academic research). If you think that is not hard work, then you have no experience in the area. The prof cannot pocket money budgeted to graduate students, and he cannot pay graduate students money that is budgeted to go elsewhere, including his salary. The only money he can take is money that was budgeted to go to him. Graduate students do not administer grants, graduate students do not have responsibility for overall supervision of the project; graduate students perform supervised bench work as part of their training, usually getting paid a pre-set stipend (in the natural sciences) which is budgeted in the grant if the stipend is for research, and is not if the research is done solely for credit. If you knew jack about the auditing and granting process, you would know all of this. So exactly how does the professor “pocket the money” budgeted for him to do the job he’s doing?
Shygetz
ppGaz–Sorry for hijacking the thread. I’d love to take it outside, but there’s no door here.
Laura
Yep. My sister-in-law’s dad was black, her mom is white. She has a great aunt who is indigineous and still lives like the people of 300 years ago. My sister-in-law, Rosa, is dark brown with course hair, and in her facial features, you see both her African and her indigenous heritage. I can’t see any Spanish (European) traits, but considering my nephew is brown and my niece is white, I think some of Rosa’s Spanish heritage has resurfaced in my niece. But there’s more than just skin color that gets inherited. Who the hell knows what athletic abilities Rosa inherited and passed down to my niece and nephew. You can say the same about most Americans unless they’re recent immigrants with a distinct ethnicity.
Darrell
Answered clearly in my previous post you obsessive loon
Shygetz
ANd I’ve retorted–see, Darrell, that’s how arguments go. You say something, I retort. I said that graduate students cannot do the professor’s main job, which is to administer the grant, supervise, and train the students. You have not addressed this. You lying sack of crap.
neil
He’s saying the reason his team lost is because it didn’t have as many black people. That’s racism.
Darrell
Ok shygetz, if that’s how arguments go, then show us the citation which proves that ALL private technology is based on public science. You said you had such a citation. Where is it? since that’s how arguments go and all. talk about lying sacks of shit
Darrell
I disagree. If someone’s school is beaten in an Academic Bowl and then comments: “I wish we had more Asian Americans in our school. Asians tend to perform well academically”, they are just making an observation based on facts. Same with the quote regarding how blacks run well. No racism there unless the race-obsessed want to insert it there
ppGaz
Bwaaaaaaaaahahahaha! There is no point so un-subtle that you can’t still miss it, Darrell!
IT’S NOT ABOUT WHETHER HE’S RACIST. It’s about the propriety of speech, which depends more on the audience than the speaker. A subtle point lost on the likes of you.
A college coach cannot go around saying that black people run really fast. Sorry, Darrell, that’s the way the world is. Trying to politicize it and whine PC!! and pretend to be injured by it — a la John Cole , who also doesn’t get this at all — is not going to make a difference.
The speech will be booed, and the speaker will either apologize, or eat shit and bark at the moon. That’s the real world …. sorry you can’t stand to live in it.
ppGaz
Shygetz, not to worry. Having a thread spiral down into Darrellisms is actually an effective way to declare victory and move on. Even the most rabid righties will usually withdraw once they realize that they are being linked to his insane blatherings.
Darrell is sort of the Comments Zamoboni Machine of Balloon-Juice. When he comes onto the ice, everyone heads for the refreshment stand.
Shygetz
In every instance in which you said that a certain technology was not based on public science, I proved you wrong. Microchips, wireless technology, computers, biotech/pharma–every one. I offered to do so again, with any technology you choose. So take me up on the offer. I am offering an empirical test, one that I have already demonstrated on (if I remember the old thread correctly) four different instances. You find some technology that you think owes nothing to public science, and I will demonstrate how pulic science was critical to its development.
You want more than that? Fine, we’ll go back to the beginning. Aristotle established empricism as the key element of the scientific method while working as a public philosopher. Roger Bacon established the first actual reduction to a method while at Oxford. Descartes wrote his book on the scientific method while working directly for the Netherlands. Without public science, we would not have the scientific method, upon which all science (and scientific technology) is based.
Darrell
Only because race-obsessed kooks like yourself start screaming “racism” to anyone stating an obvious fact
thanks to aholes like you
Darrell
You made the claim that you had a CITATION proving that ALL private technology, all of it, was the result of public research. Simple question: Where is that citation? show it, or admit that you lied your ass off about having such a citation
Darrell
Hey, mexicans make great margaritas, better than most white-run restaurants. That’s a racist remark, right kooks?
Shygetz
I just did, dumbass. Read the second paragraph, ADD boy. Do you want me to link to the source for all that information, or can you Google it for yourself?
Darrell
So the entire basis of your “citation” rests on this
So then, according your kook-logic, without Descartes, there would have been no further advances in technology, right?.. so therefore all technology invented by the private sector was a result of publicly funded research. Do you see what a drooling loon you are? has it dawned on you yet?
Shygetz
And I made the claim that I cited that all technology had a basis in public science, not that I had a citation. I did that by gathering empirical evidence that this was the case, and presenting that evidence, refuting all (and I mean all) of your challenges. If you knew anything about science, you would know that empiricism (or circular logic based on the identity property) is the only way to prove a universal positive. I submitted my evidence, and you have not refuted it. I will agree to any empirical challenge you would care to place before me. Or, I will accept your concession that I was right. C’mon, if I’m wrong, prove me wrong.
Defense Guy
Black people are statistically more prone to sickle cell anemia. Oops, I am such a racist.
Mac Buckets
Hmmm. So now it’s dumb to mention the obvious truth that different races have different characteristics. Instead, we have to pretend that we believe that all races are exactly the same — sure, all humans look the same and act the same and have the same exact abilities. Aren’t I a genius?
Again, and try to wrap your brains around this one: We are to the point where we have to pretend to be stupid in order to avoid offending the thin-skinned. It’s like the old Barry Sobel stand-up routine, where he sacastically pretends that no stereotypes are ever true. “Fine, black people don’t talk back to the movie screen. Fine, Puerto Ricans love birth control. Fine, Arabs don’t work in AM/PM minimarts. Fine, Koreans are excellent drivers. Fine, Jews are terrible with money. Fine, a black guy’s butt is not higher up than a white guy’s butt. Fine…”
That’s where the PC morons have taken us — it’s dumb to tell the truth, and not even a “you look fat in that dress” truth, but a “you look better than me in that dress” truth.
Congratulations — the PC police have scared and shamed America to the point that people who speak the truth must be silenced in order to avoid offending the dumb people. You’re only smart if you pretend to be stupid.
Shygetz
Nice strawman, Mac…does it come with a hat?
It’s dumb to stand up as a spokesperson for a major institution and say something that YOU KNOW is gonna piss off a sizable portion of the country. Yes, it’s dumb. Part of being smart is knowing when to keep your mouth shut. You think smart people tell everyone all the truth all the time? Please.
Note, I’m not saying that you’re dumb to be saying this stuff. You are a private citizen speaking (anonymously) only for yourself. DeBerry was speaking for his employer, and what he said was stupid. Like it, dislike it, whatever (personally, I think people are too sensitive sometimes), that’s the world we live in. DeBerry knew it, and he said the stuff anyway. It was dumb.
ppGaz
That’s right, Darrell! It all boils down to you thinking that real people in the real world are assholes.
Which, you know, is fine. Except it proves my point and not yours, if you have one. Mr. College Coach was making a fool of himself in the real world, and real people objected.
That’s not PC. That’s just common sense. The PC! shriek is a lie, it’s bogus. It’s a cover for the truth.
Here’s the truth: Some people want to be able to go around in public and say “Black people really run fast” and get away with it, never be challenged.
That, you idiotic little man, is the Great Principle that you and Cole are defending here.
Like I said from the get-go: How pathetic! How stupid!
If you don’t have enough sense to tailor your speech to be unobjectionable, fine, no law says you have to …. but at least be man enough to step up and take the consequences when they happen. Show some nuggets, for crissakes.
The COACH WAS A GODDAMNED FOOL. Just like you, Darrell.
APF
Saying “black people run fast” is an allegedly stupid remark not because it’s wrong, or because it’s racist, but because people are going to yell and holler at you that you just can’t say that. That’s a completely untenable position to be arguing in support of. Saying it’s the reality is the rhetorical equivalent of “who is John Galt,” and is not sufficient cause to be calling people fools for suggesting that gee, we need not be in a world where speech is forbidden not because of it’s inaccuracy or it’s inherent offensiveness, but because people will shout it down for no reason. The idea that you’re really arguing for free speech and your detractors aren’t, because you’re arguing that this is an issue of speech being countered by speech–so you’re all fools for even discussing this–is nonsensical and self-refuting. Speech is countered by speech, that speech is countered by more speech, and so on. It’s called discussion. Saying that the shouting should end the discussion is not advocating free speech–it’s advocating an ideological tyranny of the loudest, regardless of the inherent validity of what they are saying. That’s the opposite of free speech in any meaningful sense of the term.
Your pathetic ranting about “darkies” and etc are irrelevant red herrings, given that you already acknowledge these weren’t racist comments.
Mac Buckets
No, because becoming a quarterback is almost entirely matter of training and opportunity — and a look at the changes in the Pro Bowl rosters over the last 20 years should show you that. Speed is primarily a genetic gift, and it is indeed a gift that blacks generally have in greater abundance than the other races.
ppGaz
If you think I am wrong, Darrell, just ask yourself one question: The shading between “racism” and “stupidity” here is subtle.
Now look at your surroundings, and where they came from. Do you find that BJ is a place where the subtleties of speech and communication are going to be examined with care and a scholarly approach? Or is this a place where people are encouraged — BY EXAMPLE — to literally shoot their mouths off and let the chips fall where they may?
An arena for mouth-shooting is a fine thing, Darrell, I happen to enjoy it immensely. But I am not STUPID ENOUGH like you to think that the same rules apply to the whole world. They don’t. The whole world is made up of people who are going to hate you just because of the way you look, or love you because of the car you drive. It’s a real world with real people and real reactions to things, and a lot of those are not going to be to your liking.
So, you know what? Fuck you, Darrell, that’s tough. If you get a job as a coach, and then go around saying that black people run really fast, you are going to pay the price.
Don’t like it? Go kill yourself. Really, end it all, because you aren’t suited to live in the real world.
Shygetz
APF–you disregard the fact that DeBerry was not speaking for himself, he was speaking for the US Air Force Academy. What he said got him in trouble with his employer. Guess what? That’s dumb. Color it any way you want to, it was dumb. You can have all the free speech you want on your time. DeBerry was on Air Force time. If, after he quits/gets fired, he wants to say it again, fine.
He wasn’t making a principled stand against oversensitive people, and he didn’t say it to start a discussion about “is it okay to say black people run fast”. He said something without thinking. People yelled at him for it. It was dumb.
Darrell
Is it racist to point out that ppgaz * really is * a barking moonbat?
ppGaz
This thread just gets funnier and funnier. Right, Mac, you are a guy I can picture walking down the street and telling ladies as they pass by, “You look fat in that dress” and then crying “PC! Feminazis!” if somebody complains.
Truth? Try not to nail yourself to the cross quite so blatantly, butthead. You wouldn’t know truth if it took a bridcrap on the hood of your car.
Here’s the truth: Coaches can’t go around saying that black people run fast. Period. Don’t like that? Tough shit.
You’d politicize a fart if you had the chance.
ppGaz
It isn’t about racism, you dumb shit. That’s your code word.
It’s about this: COACHES CAN’T GO AROUND SAYING THAT BLACK PEOPLE RUN FAST.
Got it?
Darrell
It was as “dumb” as pointing out that Asians do well academically, or that elderly people tend to move more slowly, or that tall people tend to make better basketball players than midgets
Shygetz
Once again, Darrell, you are being deliberately stupid. You sit here, a private, anonymous person, saying that stuff, and it’s fine. If, say, you were the Secretary of State, or the President of Dumbass University, or head football coach for the Air Force Academy, then it would not be ok. You are no longer a private citizen, you are representing that group and saying things that they don’t want to be associated with. If a private citizen (say, George Clooney) wants to say it, fine. They can say it and weather the outrage and no one gets hurt but them. But when you represent an instituion, you can’t go shooting your mouth off all the time. You have to think before you speak. You should try it sometime.
ppGaz
If you really believe that those are equivalent, good for you. You are definitely stupid enough to think so, so I have no quarrel with your assertion.
However, I promise you this: If you get a job as a coach, and say that black people run really fast, and it gets out into the public, you are going to be smacked.
Take it or leave it, that’s the real world. Grow up.
Darrell
Only the race-obsessed would characterize his comments as “shooting his mouth off”. He made a perfectly reasonable statement, a COMPLIMENTARY one at that, and the race agitators scream ‘racist’ as usual. Incredible
Veeshir
shygetz getz a point
ANd I’ve retorted—see, Darrell, that’s how arguments go. You say something, I retort
Exactly, Darrell isn’t lying when he disputes your points, he’s arguing.
At least you got something out of this thread.
ppGaz
That’s your opinion, Darrell. I hate to break this to you, but in case you hadn’t noticed by some of the reactions you get, the world doesn’t share your opinion. There are zillions of opinions out there.
THAT’S why people in glass houses, like coaches at big colleges for instance, don’t go around saying things like that, Darrell. Because the world is what it is.
Your problem is, you don’t like the world. So, do the honorable thing, and leave it. Please.
Shygetz
And yet people got pissed off, didn’t they? And the Air Force Academy is taking some heat, aren’t they? And I bet they are not happy about it. And I bet that you could have seen it coming (I sure did). He spoke before thinking. It was dumb.
Shygetz
Veeshir, I pointed out three lies. The false quote (which he admitted to). The false accusation of fraud among professors. And the falsehood of saying that I posted something twice. I never complain about lying when someone addresses a point with opinion or true fact, only when they use lies. You conveniently ignored that, probably because it doesn’t fit in with your world-view of “Conservatives good and holy, liberals evil devils.”
Oh God, why do I bother with you people.
Shygetz
Veeshir eats babies! I have proof!
Veeshir said “I hates the white man!”
People who call themselves Veeshir are trying to shoot American troops in the head.
I’m not lying, I’m arguing.
Now I get it. Thanks Veeshir.
Darrell
So then, you concede that it wasn’t a “lie”, but an honest mistake
Definitively refuted above. Not false
You did post it twice. I posted your quotes. Anyone doubting me can re-read the Stem Cell thread themselves to see who the ‘liar’ is
And don’t forget your absurd claim that you had “cited” that ALL private technology is the result of public research.. and you cited as “proof”, that Descartes wrote his book on the scientific method while working directly for the Netherlands. Clearly without Descartes, no further advances in technology would have been made, right kook?
Veeshir
I guess shygetz didn’t get the point. Oh well.
Mac Buckets
I don’t think you’re using “strawman” correctly. You say, “Hey, he’s stupid, because he’s in this position and this is reality and talking about race will get him in trouble in this reality.” I say, “Granted, but you SHOULD be able to say what DeBerry said. PC and oversensitivity have made this reality stupid and silly, and we need to change this reality back to where it makes some semblance of sense.”
APF
The problem is, you’re arguing that it’s stupid because people will manufacture outrage at the comment, not because of the actual content therein. That’s why it’s meaningless to suggest that the real problem is the person who is saying it, not whether he’s pointing to a valid idea. There’s a difference between saying a comment is stupid–and I would agree, not because people would scream RACISM, but because of the simplistic framing of a complicated but obvious phenomenon–and saying they deserve to be publicly humiliated and punished for saying something the loudest shouters for no real reason think just shouldn’t be spoken.
Darrell
So then, using ppgaz’s “logic”, if there is not absolute consensus on something, then it cannot be spoken by a public figure. Because to do otherwise would be “stupid”. That’s a fair summary of ppgaz’s position based on what he’s written.. after wiping the drool off his mouth
Another Jeff
So that’s the new standard, huh? If somebody is gonna get pissed off, don’t say it?
So, if someone thinks that the 51% of US voters that voted for Bush are stupid, they should keep their mouth shut, lest they offend Bush voters?
Look, DeBerry said something obvious, no matter how much the chronically offended here wanna whine about it.
Show me the last time that a team won a Super Bowl or National Championship with two white guys starting at receiver and two white guys starting at cornerback. You’d probably have to go back to the Packers for the Super Bowl (if they even did) or an Alabama team before Bear Bryant started recruiting black players for the last National Champion.
Nobody is saying that Rerun from “What’s Happening” could run a 4.2 40 just because he’s black (especially now that he’s dead). But, it’s a fact that the positions that require speed are dominated by black players.
Mac Buckets
Your hilarious rhetoric aside… yes, he can say that black people run fast, because everyone who has ever seen an athletic competetion knows it to be the truth. He can say it, he did say it, and he’ll survive all you pointless idiots saying he can’t say it.
Mac Buckets
But it should be OK, right? The point is that, of course, this PC-world where you cannot speak obvious truths for fear of making a stupid person uncomfortable has become reality, but this reality is silly and needs to change.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Thank you. At least someone told the fool. I hate stupid people.
You’re wrong. Period.
I really don’t see how there is any argument about whether the comment is racist. The comment is, by definition, a racist comment. Please read the definition of racism:
As you can see, clearly the comment is a racist comment. That doesn’t mean the coach is a racist, it just means he made a racist statement.
BUT this isn’t what the debate should be about. The debate should be over whether the comment was offensive to anyone. I hardly see how anyone could be offended by his comments, so I don’t see the need for an apology.
ppGaz
.
In this case, yes. But we know from experience that if lying is required, he’ll do it.
Sure it can, Darrell. You just don’t get this. He can say anything he wants. And then other people can say he needs to apologize, because they are free to say so. And then guess what? HE APOLOGIGIZES and life goes on.
But that’s not good enough for the anal righty crowd, led by Cole. Oh no, we have to BEMOAN the fact that others (gasp!) were free to demand his apology … and get it!
Like I said, you just don’t get it. You want to be free to say whatever you want, but you don’t want others to be free to say your are full of shit or that they are offended.
And as I said before, tough shit, Darrell. The world doesn’t work that way. Luckily for all of us, the Darrells of the world don’t get to decide these things. Everyone gets to DECIDE FOR HIMSELF.
Mac Buckets
I think this is a more commonly-accepted definition of racism:
The Disenfranchised Voter
Says who Mac? I happened to think the definition I presented is the more common one. Yours seems like a definition from some racist apologist’s website.
Mac Buckets
No, it came from dictionary.com.
In the same sense that a sexist isn’t someone who says that men and women are different, it doesn’t make sense that a racist would just be someone who says that the races are different. To most people, there has to be some element of denigration.
Anyway, the second half of your own definition (“and that a particular race is superior to others“)pretty much clears DeBerry of any charges of your definition of racism. DeBerry never said that whites were superior to blacks or vice-versa.
Darrell
Even with a dictionary you’re still a dumbass. Just because a group of people of a particular race are, by and large smarter at math, or taller, or tend to run faster than other races, does not mean that they are overall ‘superior’ to other races, it just means that they tend to be, well, smarter at math, taller, faster, or whatever. That, you stupid-ass, is what the dictionary is saying.
Darrell
So if someone says “the sky is blue”, and a chorus of obsessive aholes like yourself claims offense at such a remark, therefore, based on what you posted previously, the statement about the sky was obviously “stupid”.
jg
I sthere a black man in the house. Is this really a bunch of white people arguing about whether or not blacks have a right to be offended by remarks a white man might say?
I think this is the type of thing that should be discussed, its healthy to air differences and this country is all about people saying things, others taking offense and asking for clarification. Speech is very inexpensive, lets splurge.
Darrell
Are you suggesting that the opinion of a black person’s race would weigh more heavily than that of a white person’s? Because it seems like that’s what you’re saying here
APF
Dictionary.com is a racist apologist’s website? What about Webster’s?
Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: ‘rA-“si-z&m also -“shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
– rac·ist /-sist also -shist/ noun or adjective
It’s not racist to suggest that there are genetic differences between people of different groups. If such a suggestion is true it need not imply that the group as a whole should be judged wholely “superior” due to those differences. In terms of Black athletes, any differences in top-tier performance may be due to a slightly higher standard deviation of certain characteristics (such as fast/slow -twitch muscle fiber distribution) that come into their own at the very highest level of sport–where fractions of a second difference can be the equivalent to a lifetime. Is it valid to suggest that the entire group is “superior” due to a wider distribution of certain characteristics? Gifted Black sprinters would easily be crushed competing against slightly-less-genetically-gifted marathon runners, f/e.
APF
? why was that line crossed-out?
Darrell
You kooks are unbelievable
ppGaz
You are very dense, so this is like pulling teeth.
Everyone has freedom of speech, Darrell. You and I can say what we please.
However, we do not have freedom FROM speech. My freedom to speak does not include freedom FROM being criticized for that speech.
If I am a coach and say “Black people run real fast”, I am quite free to do that.
But if I am the parent of a student at that school, and the coach says that, then I am free to speak and say “You are a piece of crap, sir. I demand an apology and your promise that you will not say such a stupid thing again.”
And then the coach is free to react as he sees fit. He can refuse. He can resign. He can tell the offended person to piss up a rope.
Everybody is free, Darrell. People are free to be offended by your speech, and tell you so. Whether you like it or not. Grow up, be a man.
Shygetz
Do you concede that Clinton’s “I never had sexual relations with that woman.” was an honest mistake because he later copped to it? Same thing. I think you did it intentionally based on your past history, and then confessed after you were caught.
Where? You haven’t refuted that professors are doing what they are paid to do, and are not “pocket(ing) the change” as you put it. You’ve alleged that professors are paid too much, which is completely different from “pocket(ing) the change.” You changed it to an opinion. Your original allegation is a lie, which you seem to have changed after you were called on it.
You posted two quotes. The latter one stating that I had “cited,” or advanced evidence for, the fact that all private technology is based on public science. You cannot bring forth one example to the contrary, where I have shown that our entire scientific establishment and method, from ancient Greece to today, is based on public science. I pointed out that I have refuted every single example you put forward of technology not based on public science. I pointed out that this is empirical proof, and for you to disprove the assertion, all you have to do is come up with one example of private technology that isn’t based on public science. You won’t, I think you can’t. I have met the burden of evidence. You haven’t even proposed one shred of evidence.
The earlier statement was an opinion stating “not jack would get done in science” without Federal funding. Those are two different statements, not the same statement twice as you said it was. One was opinion, one was alleging an empirical fact, and I defended them both in that thread. The only absurd thing about it is that I allowed Veeshir to drag me back into talking with such a dishonest person.
Shygetz
Why should I listen to you, Veeshir? You eat babies and hate the white man.
Shygetz
If that someone is spokeperson for a public institution, you’re damn right. Remember, we’re not talking about you saying black people are fast. We’re talking about the head football coach of Air Force Academy. You can say whatever you want…it only reflects on you (deja vu, I could swear I’m having to repeat myself). But if you stand up as the representative of an institution and say something widely unpopular, guess what, you’re going to get in trouble. Is it wrong that it is widely unpopular to say black people are fast? Maybe. Was it still dumb to say it as Fisher DeBerry, head coach of Air Force Academy? Yep.
The Disenfranchised Voter
You’re a fucking moron. The thing is BLACK PEOPLE ARE INHERITANTLY FASTER. Jesus christ you schmuck, the reason why the comment is most definitely racist is because not all black people are faster than white people. Their quickness has nothing to do with race.
The same goes for your racist asian comment about them being more intelligent. Their intelligence HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. It has to do with their culture you stupid shit.
Game Set Match.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Hahaha, Darrell you calling ANYONE a kook is truly laughable.
You are easily the most out-of-touch, delusional moron I have ever come across on this site. And I guarantee you I’m not the only ones who believes that either.
You are an ignorant nutjob. I wouldn’t be surprised if even John thought so.
jg
You are so stupid its criminal. That is about as far from my point as you can get.
I’m not saying anything all that complex but you always come away completely lost about what I’m saying. Weird. And sad.
Mac Buckets
I think I speak for everyone on this board when I say, “Huh??”
Darrell
And NO ONE suggested otherwise. NO ONE. This is Exhibit A on why you are such a stupid-ass
yawn
Shygetz
MacBuckets, I don’t think he’s racist, just that he said a dumb thing. Look, the fact that the Academy reprimanded him says that they didn’t want him to say such a thing. Should people have gotten all bent out of shape? Don’t know, don’t care. They have the right to get bent out of shape if they want. The fact is, either DeBerry didn’t realize that what he said would get people pissed (which I think is dumb, since I knew that it would) or he didn’t think before he said it (a dumb thing to do) or he said it to make some kinda statement about oversensitivity (and the fact that he apologized rules that out). So either way, he did something dumb.
Darrell
Oh yeah? Here’s what you wrote:
Pretty clear to anyone who can read english that you are suggesting that a black man’s opinion should be given more weight than someone of another race on this subject. If it’s not what you meant to say, it’s certainly what you wrote.. and I think you meant it too
The Disenfranchised Voter
Shit, oh no Darrell has Mc Buckets backing him up!
Oh wait Mac Buckets gives Darrell a run for his money in the nutjob department.
Oh well nevermind then.
Mac Buckets
On ESPN yesterday, Michael Wilbon and Stephen A. Smith both said they weren’t offended, and that, essentially, the whole controversy was stupid.
Mr Furious
Yes it is, dipshit. The fact that a Mexican bartender might make a good margarita is not genetics or because they are Mexican. It is because somebody else who knows how to make a good margarita showed them how. If that same person showed me, I could make a gen-you-ine Mexican margarita to throw in your face. And any that got in your mouth, would taste just as good as the Mexican bartender’s.
Yeah, that’s the problem. When a coach announces a stereotype-based philosophy like DeBerry, what black is going to get that opportunity? If he’s black, he’s fast — put him at wideout or corner. I guess the slow white guys get the line and QB. You are right that it’s experience and opportunity that makes a good quarterback, it’s thinking like DeBerry’s that kept it a white position for so many years. His statement is counter-productive to the opportunity you are advocating, don’t you see that?
Darrell
This, from someone claiming a dictionary is racist
Shygetz
And yet Air Force made him apologize. His employer didn’t want to be associated with those remarks. He said the remarks anyway. He later apologized. It was a dumb thing to say, but I don’t think that it was racist.
Darrell
Take a good look people. Behold the idiocy of the left, whereas the statement, “Hey, mexicans make great margaritas, better than most white-run restaurants” is deemed to be “racist”. You loons keep it up. You’re showing what half-wits you truly are
Kimmitt
Just Some Guy: Thanks.
Shygetz
And yet you didn’t address his point. You did a dishonest, half-cut and paste to selectively quote him, pretending that he had no point. Behold, the intellectual dishonesty of Darrell.
Mac Buckets
You should care. That should be the main focus of this whole affair. Do we let a good man get railroaded because he told the truth?
It’s only a “dumb” thing to say because people (including the top Commander of the AF, apparently) have gotten to be so oversensitive about race. That’s the main point we’re making about the stupidity of the PC police these days. I’m saying we need to change our way of thinking to allow for the verbalization of truth and fact, like, for example, the fastest blacks are faster than the fastest whites.
DeBarry is from a different generation — a generation that thinks it’s not “dumb” to tell the truth, especially when you’re not even insulting anyone.
Of course, I knew DeBerry was in deep when he said blacks were faster, but I also knew that what he said was truth, and when people get inflamed about someone telling the truth, we as a society have problems. The PC police want us to pretend that we don’t know blacks are faster, and that’s encouraging ignorance.
Darrell
And what “point” would that be shygetz? That making the statement “mexicans make better margaritas than white run restaunts” is ‘racist’? I am supposed to seriously address ‘points’ such as that? What’s to address? he’s a complete moron, and the fact you are defending his idiocy suggests you’re one too
Shygetz
There are no PC police (at least, not many). There are just people; people who get upset when their particular sensitivity is tickled. If you get enough of those people together, then you get a shitstorm over insensitive remarks, be they true or not. Until you convince these people not to be oversensitive, then you’re gonna have the same problem. But punching them in their sensitive spot and jeering “Why you cryin’!” ain’t gonna do it.
Oh please. It has always been dumb for a spokesperson to say something wildly unpopular. If he had stood up in “his day” and said Communists were more caring than capitalists, then he would have been in deep shit, whether it was true or not. The sensitivities change, but the principle stays the same.
Shygetz
Darrell–His point was that there is nothing inherent in being Mexican that makes you better able to make a margarita, so saying (or implying) that there is is racist. You ignored (and continue to ignore) this point, and just call names. Why don’t you remove all doubt of your lineage and start throwing your poop at people?
Darrell
What he said, and anyone doubting it can read it for themselves is this
What part of “Yes it is” don’t you understand?
The Disenfranchised Voter
Which is exactly what my position has been this entire thread. The comment is racist–by definition–because the coach is attributing their speed to their race. It is the same thing as attributing asians intelligence to their race. That by defintion is racist.
The comment isn’t offensive, however, so its no big deal.
Shygetz
You are so dishonest, it’s stunning. Here is the entire quote.
Note the convenient omission of the reason that he thinks it is racist–the exact reason I wrote and you refuse to address.
*splat* Oh, you almost hit me with that one, Darrell.
Darrell
Not according to the ‘racist’ dictionaries cited here. There are differences between races other than skin color. You seem to be in denial on that fundamental point. Reality based community my ass
Darrell
I don’t give a sh*t about his convoluted reasoning on why the statement
is ‘racist’. The idiocy of his conclusion and your defense of it, that the remark itself was racist is self-evident
Mac Buckets
You’re waaaaaaay behind the times with this rhetoric. This isn’t 1975 with James Harris coming into the league. If there is any stereotype in football right now, it’s the stereotype of the black, athletic quarterback as the most valuable player on the field. From Randall Cunningham to McNabb to Culpepper to Vick to Vincent Young, and those are mentioning just the successes.
Do you seriously think that Frank Beemer is unaware that blacks are faster than whites? And yet he put Michael Vick (and later, Mike’s brother) at QB for Va Tech. Do you think that Paul Pasqualoni hasn’t noticed the speed disparity between blacks and whites? Yet Donovan McNabb was his QB. There are too many other examples to ennumerate.
Don’t you get what DeBarry is saying? HE WANTS BLACKS ON HIS TEAM, PROBABLY TO PLAY QB! Air Force runs a spread option game that necessitates a speedy QB and speedy running backs.
DeBerry did not “announce a stereotype-based philosophy.” He stated what everyone already knows: the fastest blacks are faster than the fastest whites. It’s a (gulp) “reality-based philosophy.”
kl
Yep!
Shygetz
That is why you fail.
And MacBuckets, I think Air Force runs the triple option, not the spread option. Just a nit-pick from a football fan.
Mac Buckets
First of all, that’s an arguable value judgement, not a statement of easily-observed fact. You’ve got to see the difference.
Second, offending people with the truth is not a valid yardstick for “stupidity.” To recall a much-less-trivial case than this one (and save it, I’m not equating the importance of the two), lots of people were offended when Rosa Parks wouldn’t give up her seat. They were wrong, and she was right. The people attacking DeBerry, including the Commander of the Air Force, are wrong, and DeBerry is right.
Mac Buckets
The spread option offense is a triple-option offense. Technically, I think AF calls theirs a “flexbone.” Rice’s Ken Hatfield, under whom DeBerry assisted, calls his version the “spread option.”
ppGaz
Presentation is everything.
Stormy and I once got into a hair-pulling, crotch-kicking contest over my mention of her mother.
Now, the details aside, since they don’t matter here, the fact is that better presentation on either side could have prevented the argument.
If Stormy simply said, “I’d prefer that you not speak of my mother” I’d be inclined to say “Okay, but then you also refrain from talking about here, because when you talk about her, it introduces the subject.” And then she’d say “Okay, my mother is a topic that is off the table here” and I’d say, you got it, and we’d go on.
It’s possible to say things, make points, argue, or come to agreement … with — or without — offense, or agita. It all depends on the intent and skill of the people involved.
If a guy walks into a room and says “Man, black people sure can run fas” and it happens to be a room full of black people who never met this guy, I am going to guess that he is going to discover new things about his “freedom of speech” at that moment. And, he’s an idiot.
The coach is an idiot. There never was any story here, no “PC” violation, nothing. It’s all bullshit, for the pleasure of the Cole-Darrell axis to whine and pretend to be outraged over a phony “PC” thing that is entirely imaginary.
If Cole and Darrell are so concerned with constraints on speech, let’s see them express than concern in regard to something a little less obviously gratuitous than “black people run fast.”
The Disenfranchised Voter
I’ve already shown that the comments are racist but let’s take a sample of dicitionary defitions for racism:
From Dictionary.com:
From Webster:
From yourDictionary.com:
From Encarta:
From compact Oxford:
From Cambridge:
The list goes on and on. By all of these definitions, the comment was racist.
Defense Guy
All of those require a belief, or statement that one race is superior to others. You have not made the case that this statement rises to that level. Simply stating the supposed superior athletic ability of blacks does not rise to the level of superiority of the race itself.
Mac Buckets
Come on, people, saying that Mexicans make the best margueritas isn’t racist, any more than saying the best pizza is from Napoli. They invented it, it’s associated with their culture, they train their people to make it a certain, traditional, successful way…so they’re probably pretty good at it.
You guys can’t seem to distinguish genetic characteristics from learned skills.
Another Jeff
All i can say is, this half-Polish, half-Italian will put his ability to pour a perfect pint of Guiness up against any Mick out there.
Another Jeff
Oops, I meant Guinness, not Guiness. Apparently, my ability to spell it correctly isn’t equal to my ability to pour one.
Mac Buckets
No, they’d probably do what the black pundits have done this week, which is to shrug their shoulders and say, “Yes, we are, so what?” And then DeBerry would say, “So I’d like to give more scholarships to black athletes,” and the black people would say, “Good for you.”
Why do you assume that black people would react violently to a statement of their physical superiority? Those “darkies” just can’t control their violent, animal impulses, right, ppg?
The Disenfranchised Voter
Actually it is you who can’t. Saying that blacks are inheritantly faster because they are black is racist. Saying Mexicans inheritantly make better margueritas because they are Mexican is racist. Saying that Asians are inheritantly more intelligent because they are asian is racist.
The thing is that none of those traits are genetic characteristics. You are claiming they are. They are all learned cultural traits. It is the culture that influences those things, not race.
Mac Buckets
So how long do blacks study to be fast? Is that a 12-year course, or like a two-week seminar?
Darrell
One thing about this thread is that it demonstrates how extreme so many of these kooks truly are. Accusations of dictionaries being racist, you can’t say “mexicans make better margaritas” or “black girls are prettier than white girls” without it being a racist remark according to several on this thread, etc.. and not just the kooks making those statements, but the others who embrace and defend them.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Bullshit. Stop applying things that NOONE in this thread have said.
As I said before, Saying that blacks are inheritantly faster because they are black is racist. Saying Mexicans inheritantly make better margueritas because they are Mexican is racist. Saying that Asians are inheritantly more intelligent because they are asian is racist.
The Disenfranchised Voter
has*
ppGaz
Looks you’re the one who can’t control impulses. Throughout this thread, over two calendar days, I am pretty sure that I have spoken only of SPEECH as the response to SPEECH. I have neither described nor advocated anything like violence, or “animal impulses.”
It’s all about speech. Freedom to speak, and freedom from speech. Speech, speech, speech.
Freedom of speech includes the right to make racist remarks. It also includes the right to complain about racist remarks. That’s the nice thing about freedom, it’s so …. free.
“PC” is a code word for “not free.” People who bitch about PC constraints are really asking that others be made not free to register their complaints.
That’s all this is about. Everything else in here is just useless churn …. in other words, your cup of tea, Mac!
Mac Buckets
I guess you’ve never heard of fast-twitch muscles then, huh?
ppGaz
He’ll show you his if you show him yours!
WTF, Macdoodle? How many tangents to the real issue can you all construct here?
Mac Buckets
So when you wrote:
you meant that the black people would have a stern and frank conversation with the coach? I’m glad to hear that. I still think my prediction about that conversation would be more likely than yours.
Ah, if only I could aspire to the salience of your brilliant correspondence with Stormy and Darrell.
Darrell
Actually you yourself claimed that MacB’s dictionary.com defintion was racist. Here are your exact words:
Others on this site have said that by making the statement, “mexicans tend to make better margaritas than white-run restaurants” is in and of itself a racist remark. And I was told by jg that the statement “black girls are prettier than white girls” is a racist statement. Re-read for yourself.. I’m don’t have to twist the words or take anything out of context to demonstrate how extreme so many of you loons truly are. All I have to do is quote you.
ppGaz
You sound so wistful, it makes me sad.
Idiot.
Mac Buckets
I’m all about the slow-twitch. “For her pleasure,” you know…
Mac Buckets
Immediate remorse over posting that, followed by a little vomit-in-my-mouth.
The Disenfranchised Voter
I hate to break it to you Mac but just about everyone–on this conservative blog–thinks Stormy and Darrell are nutjob extremists…
It’s all about the company you keep, and your company ain’t looking so hot.
ppGaz
I meant exactly what I have meant all along. Freedom of speech applies equally to your audience. Speak in a way that is offensive to your audience, and be prepared to deal with the consequences.
Whining about PC — a bogus and manipulative term — is all about wanting speech without consequences.
Ain’t gonna happen. Argue it any way you like, ain’t gonna happen. Speech has consequences. Speak accordingly. If you aren’t man enough to deal with the consiequences, then shut up. Or at least stop whining.
Mac Buckets
Don’t leave yourself out of that category! Have you found the address for the Black Cultural Pedal Velocity Academy yet?
Another Jeff
All of that happens to be true. However, since DeBerry is the person that you allege to have said something stupid, i haven’t heard him complaining about the consequences.
The problem with your line of thinking is that you seem to be saying if person A says something that person B deems stupid or offensive, person B has every right to say it’s stupid and offensive.
So far, so good. But, you seem to have a problem with the fact that persons C, D, and E also have the right to tell person B that they’re an idiot for being offended.
Darrell
BWWAHAHAHAHA. So says the kook who claims dictionary.com is racist.
Mac Buckets
And those “consequences” for your hypothetical coach speaking to a room of black people were what exactly? A stern talking to?
Utter nonsense. This incident is about freedom of speech without knee-jerk, baseless consequences.
So we have a coach who said nothing untrue, nothing insulting, nothing harmful being piled on by a bunch of whining, scared simpletons because a white man dared talk about race. I’m amazed you are proud of that, because I’m not.
ppGaz
Indeed! It’s Cole who complained. Which is exactly why I told him that this thread is a heapa nuthin, last night.
There’s no story here. I said so in my first post to the thread. This is all churn, nonsense.
No. I have a problem with coming along after C (Cole) makes his crocodile-teared post about “PC” and telling him he’s full of crap, and then being chased after with baseball bats for doing so.
Cole can say whatever he wants. So can I. The main difference is, as I said last night, I’m right about this (there’s no reason for anyone to feign PC outrage), and he’s wrong (he thinks, apparently, there is).
And there you have it.
ppGaz
Make up your own. It’s a hypothetical. In this case, apparently somebody talked the guy into apologizing.
No, it is not. That’s a lie, and it’s the reason why I am here saying it’s a lie, because it’s a goddam lie.
“Scared, simpletons?” Yeah, you are being totally objective about this, for sure.
Fuck off, man, you don’t get this and never will.
Mac Buckets
…because you say so? Forgive us if we think you’re full of yourself, and little else.
You’re not Dennis Hopper, you know.
ppGaz
You mean, he’s not me. Poor bastard.
No you stupid idiot. Because it’s true, and your saying that it’s not doesn’t make it that way.
Stop and consider the totally asinine position that the MacBuckets-Darrell-Cole axis has put itself in here:
You want the world to be such that a college coach can go forth and say that “black people run fast” and there be no consequences of that. It’s just another day at the office.
You know what? Good for you, what a noble fucking cause!
But, alas, bad news! The world is not not going to see it that way. Poor you! Tough shit! Grow up and deal with it like a man, you whiney bastard.
The Disenfranchised Voter
I never said that is was a racist dictionary. Once again making up shit Darrell.
I said the strict intrepretation defintion that he broguth forth seemed as if it was from a racist apologist’s website
Furthermore, the defintion Mac brought forth was an alternate definition on dictionary.com. The main defintion is the one I presented.
kl
Half-Polish, half-Italian… so you have the glass upside-down as you’re trying to pour, and then it slips through your greasy fingers!
Another Jeff
See, I thought that was funny, not offensive at all.
Just make sure you don’t tell Randy Moss he’s fast.
kl
Me too!
ppGaz
kl is probably the funniest guy around here.
We certainly can use the humor.
kl, are you Jewish?
Jews are so funny.
Mac Buckets
Now you’re catching on! I’d also like him to be able to say “Water is wet.” Why in the world should there be “consequences” (I assume you mean negative consequences rather than kudos) for stating an obvious, non-insulting, non-injurious, non-threatening truth? I mean, other than that the self-appointed PC police have people so scared to talk about race that they nearly pee their pants. Speak Truth To Power, Just Not About Racial Diffences.
Mac Buckets
Or Differences. Whatever.
Mac Buckets
I think that honor goes to The Disenfranchised Voter with his “African Culture of Speed” riffs. Or did you mean intentionally funny?
ppGaz
Uh, well, get a grip on yourself. I caught on last night, as soon as John started this awful thread.
But you see, the point, the world doesn’t offer you the situation where college coaches can say these things and nothing happens. That’s some weird parallel universe where the ghosts of Republicans walk around farting in each other’s faces and stuff like that. It’s imaginary, in any case.
Out here, in the REAL world, as I said, that ain’t gonna happen. And calling it a “PC” problem is just a completely dishonest, bullshit attempt at manipulation, and whining and complaining like a schoolgirl.
Grow some nuggets. It’s a tough world out there. The coach, as big a fool as he was, apparently apologized and moved on. Be man enough to do the same. Move on. Admit defeat, send me my certificate of kicking your sorry ass around this thread, and move on.
Another Jeff
Wow, the brave new world of the blogosphere. In the old days, when old bastards couldn’t get their equipment to work, they’d go buy a sportscar to overcompensate.
Now, they talk shit on blogs all day.
kl
No, but my rabbi is!
Mac Buckets
It used to be a tough world. Now people like you have made it marshmallow soft for fear of offending some overly sensitive wannabe-victim. You think Bear Bryant would last two days in today’s PC coaching world? Two seconds?
Mac Buckets
Victory because you say so, eh? How can someone so impotent get so arrogant? Ahhh, the intertrons.
Mac Buckets
Looking back on this thread, I think DougJ has been using Ppg’s ID. I get it — joke’s on us!
ppGaz
Translation: I’m right, and you got nothin.
ppGaz
Uh, let’s review.
Shorter John Cole: “Waaah! We can’t say things like ‘black people run fast’ in public and be exempt from criticism! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Waaaaah! PC Nazis!” etc.
And I’m making the world soft?
Oooooooooooooooooookay.
People who live in glass houses should grow stones.
Grow up, please. It’s a real world out there.
What a bunch of crybabies. Pathetic, really. Sad.
The Disenfranchised Voter
I would venture to guess that the reason why blacks are better athletes is because they are more determined to make it pro, thus they train harder when it comes to sports.
Now, instead of repeatedly talking out of your ass… how about you provide evidence that speed is a racial trait of blacks? You have yet to provide any evidence whatsoever.
ppGaz
And how about comedy being a racial trait of Jews?
I mean, Henny Youngman, for crissakes…. I mean, for heaven’s sake.
kl
Exactly! Same thing with rap music.
Mac Buckets
Your unsupportable assertions just keep getting dumber and dumber. Let’s not even ask why you assert that blacks are “more determined.”
The Olympics suggest what a pile of dung your latest assertions are. Olympic sprinters are running primarily for country, so the financial aspect is almost entirely taken out of it. East Germans, Chinese, and Soviets were (and still are in the Chinese case) made to train to the point that an American would sue his coaches.
With the most rigorous (and technologically advanced) training, those countries — and I’m giving you all of Germany after the merge and all the former Soviet states after 1991 — won ZERO men’s sprint (100m or 200m) medals of any kind combined in the last five fully-attended Olympic Games. Black athletes won every single medal in sprints, except for the 2000 gold in the 200m, won by a Greek who was later disgraced in a doping scandal. The last white athlete to win any kind of sprint medal was in 1976, when the great Valeri Borzov won a bronze.
So tell me again how its all about training and how race must be some really coincidental factor?
Mac Buckets
Also, the fastest 200(!) recorded times in the 100-meters in history have all been posted by black athletes. Discuss.
Brian
And the potential of Cuban swimmers is wasted too.
ppGaz
I think it’s more interesting to ask why you are so determined? Is it genetic, or …. ?
Are you Norwegian?