Alright folks- time to tone it down in the comments or I am going to start knocking heads.
I don’t care if you disagree with me- I disagree with many of you a good bit of the time, and I do my best to be fair. That is allowed, and I expect people to disagree with me on a number of issues. Sure, I fly off the handle when you push the right buttons- but guess what- it is my site. Tim and I are allowed to get a little unhinged when we see fit.
I try to be respectful of opinions that differ from mine, and, in fact, have even opened up my home to a liberal to add a broader range of opinions here. But some of you are simply over the line, and it is time for some house cleaning.
Believe it or not, but you are guests here. This site does not exist so you can turn entire comments threads into attacks on other bloggers, particularly ones I like.
Quite frankly, I don’t know why some of you even come here, since all you do is launch attacks on Republicans, conservatives, libertarians- basically anyone to the right of Howard Dean is the enemy in the eyes of some of you, and I am more than a little tired of it. I have no problem with people who want to argue, and forcefully- that is why I liked Tim enough to ask him to start writing. But some of you just come in here and shit all over the place, add nothing (rather, you detract) to the conversation, and then simply sit and heckle those people who you disagree with.
It ends now. Shape up, or get out. Quit coming in here and heaping all your bile on whoever you think best represents the archetypal ‘evil Republican.’ Go work out. Go start a DKos diary. Go donate some money to MoveOn or Code Pink. Go swap spit with James Walcott. I don’t care- just stop coming in here and crapping all over the place.
I am not trying to stifle debate- I could just close comments on posts if I wanted to do that. I do, however, want the comments threads to look more like this than this. I tried to do open threads, where people could flame away- but some of you just can’t control yourselves, and muck up every thread. Again- it stops, and now.
And Andrei- we can start with you. You can post your apology for your previous comments here (you know what they were), or just leave and don’t come back.
BTW- this is the last time I am going to try to get people to voluntarily clean up the comments. If this fails, we will go to registration.
*** Update ***
Of course this isn’t directed at only those on the left (although I can see how you would get the impression I am going to purge only lefties. I am not. Although the few people giving me the most agita have been from the left, I don’t want people running around calling people traitors. Just calm down, everyone, although a lot of you are simply being paranoid.
In fact, I don’t even intend to ban people permanently. The two people I have muted are free to come back in a week or two when they have calmed down.
John Cole
I officially declare the death of irony.
TallDave
Hehe, I wasn’t going to say it, but I was thinking it.
Enigma
LOL
Lines
Ironic my ass. Why do you really care whats in the comments, anyway? Because it offends Jeffy? Better check and make sure that Hindrocket and the Stormfront crew arn’t upset either.
And if you take the time to go look, most of those threads that have decended into likenesses of Blue Oyster Bar brawls are due to Darrell/Defense Guy or Stormy posts that defy all sorts of reality and usually are just put out to poke someone with a dirty needle to see what happens. Pointing out that someone’s post smells of racism/facism/mysogistic tendencies isn’t name calling or a violation of Godwin’s Law or playing race cards.
Theseus
Amen. Heh.
Enigma
Somebody has way too much time…….(Alright, myself included)
Theseus
It’s always the evil RightWingers I tell ya. Damn them all. Dangnabbit.
Jeff G
Lines doesn’t read my site. If I’m a partisan hack, he’s going to have to explain my position on the Miers nomination. Or on Schiavo. And a host of other issues.
I post a lot about language and intentionalism; I’ve been posting legal analysis; I’ve been holding dialogues with Roxanne at Rox Populi and the ladies at feministe. And I have been delinked by a number of socially conservative blogs, because I have no problem taking on anyone I believe is wrong.
I’d appreciate it, too, if you didn’t misquote me, Lines. I never said “destroying America,” I don’t think. Instead, here’s what I actually wrote:
At the time I wrote that, I was watching Harry Reid bark at reporters, express his disgust for Senate Republicans, and otherwise act like being in the minority entitles him to some sort of Senate affirmative action, where he has to be put in charge by dint of his party having been on the losing end of the elections that have given us the current power breakdowns.
Anyway, I expect such unhinged and vituperative bullshit from sloppy thinkers like you, Lines. You are the partisan hack. Me, I’m comfortable with the way I approach issues — which, I might add, I attach my name to.
Unlike some pussies I could name.
Lines
Looky Looky, John is smacking down the liberals, we can finally go back to our precious circle jerk of infinitly maintained opinion!
You might want to actually pay attention to the leanings of a lot of the posters here. They arn’t all as liberal as you’d like to believe. Many of them are just disgusted with the current Republican/neo-Conservative BS and are looking for more independents.
John Cole
Lines- I am not ‘smacking down liberals.’ I haven’t engaged you in any sense, and you have posted 3 pointless rants.
This is your last chance. Just knock it off.
Slide
Daddy Cole wants us all to be good.
Jeff G
Lines is a pussy.
Lines
Hacktacular!
And name calling from you is an honor, Jeffy G. Your balance on Miers and Schiavo (care to go back farther? I’m sure you can find more) don’t make up for this kind of disgusting BS. What damage, Jeffy? What do you see as damaging to this country? The sudden call on a coverup at a potentially damaging time for your party? Sounds like a well played hand, getting the attention away from missing white girls (or the equivalent) and back where Roberts promised it would be.
A week ahead of time? Sure! Because if they waited for that week, it would be another whitewash of the secrets, another possible coverup that would just ignore Democratic input and run with whatever plausable line of bullshit they could trot out.
You’ve managed to ignore mounds of evidence that says that the White House knew much more than Congress or the Senate, just so you can feel superior and not discuss the possibility that you sucked up the lies and misdirections of a spoiled child. Its ok to admit you are wrong, but you have to start with yourself, and I think you’re too far gone for that.
But hey, you were right about Miers, thats something, right?
Slide
That reminds me of when someone asked the famous bank robber, Willie Sutton, why he robbed banks and he answered, “thats where the money is”.
John, do you really want to only talk to the choir? Don’t you find it more interesting, even with the occasional foray into over-the-top rhetoric, to have divergent and strong view points duking it out?
chadwig
Jeff G, callling Joseph Wilson a congenital liar is the kind of bullshit that anyone with a brain would call you on…hack.
Kimmitt
Dude, it’s a conservative site — this isn’t like Tacitus which pretends to be a place where liberals and conservatives can come together and chat but is actually a place where liberals get their asses smacked around, then banned when they get uppity. Cole’s made it clear in other comments that the reason he isn’t a lib is basically because libs push his buttons in a way that conservatives don’t, even if his policy prescriptions (including a fondness for representative and clean government) tend lib.
The site’s being run by a basically honest center-righty. That means he basically agrees with us on the whole “government should be honest” thing. It doesn’t mean he agrees with us on everything, and it means he has a much, much higher tolerance for right-wing bullshit than we do, or else he’d have fled the Republican Party a long time ago. Accept this and/or move on.
Slide
Is it me or did the posts just get jumbled around?
John Cole
I fixed the daylight savings setting.
DougJ
I thought it died after 9/11. That’s what Bill Bennett said.
Good luck cleaning up the comments, John. (no snark intended there)
Slide
John does have a point. Its much better when we are all civil to each other but damn John its hard sometimes. And I know you feel the same way because I have been on the receiving end of some of your, in my opinion, unwarranted venom. We all feel very strongly about these issues – that is why we are here. And I think what gets to most of us, on both sides of the issue, is when our motives are questioned. Attack my argument. Attack my logic. But if you attack me by calling me anti-American, unpatriotic or that I don’t support the troops well then you are waving a red cape in front of me. I will not allow anyone to get away with that shit as it is deeply insulting. So John, just don’t concentrate on the counter-attack, be cognizant of the what sets some of us off.
DougJ
Good luck cleaning up the comments. Things have been getting bad, I agree.
DougJ
I love these jumbled comments. It adds a whole new dimension of fractured modernist narrative.
ppGaz
1) Not sure how much of this is aimed at me, but you have my email address, feel free to use it any time. Just tell me what you want and chances are pretty good you’ll get it, I am surprisingly easy to deal with.
2) The complaint makes it sound like people on the left are unilaterally the cause of a problem. You have some righty commenters here who are real pricks and can’t write a sentence without crapping on their lefty adversaries. If you are asking your lefties to put up with that and turn the other cheek, I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’d have a hard time doing that. I assume that the complaint is aimed at abating ad hominem attacks. No problemo for me. If I am not attacked, I can refrain from attacking. If I am attacked, I am inclined to fight back. With interest. That’s less about me than it is about human nature. I am not Ghandi. Hold your laughter. If I see Darrell talking like a human being, I can even be polite to him. Yes, even him. But I’ve been here a few months and I can’t remember a Darrell day when he wasn’t treating every lefty comment with scorn and ridicule, dripping with condescension and disdain. Other lefties will have to speak for themselves, but I can’t be talked to the way Darrell talks to people and keep a civil tongue. That goes for R. Bennett and a few other people too. I’m not a “Saddam lover” or a traitor because I won’t kneel at the altar of King George, and I won’t be talked to that way. If that makes me unfit to serve here, then just say so, and I’ll leave peaceably, no hard feelings.
Jess
Which is why I keep searching for some honest discussion on (supposedly) moderate sites. I’m starting to feel like Diogenes, though. It would be fanstastic if visitors to Juice could refrain from playground politics and focus on discussion rather than insults, but I realize that people come here for all kinds of reasons, including the opportunity to rant. But since we can’t control other people’s silliness, couldn’t we try harder to control our own? Just ignore the chronic offenders (Darrell in particular comes to mind; he has yet to say anything worth responding to), and focus on those who contribute something worthwhile to the discourse (which Andrei generally does when he’s not in reactive mode).
Andrei
Guess you’re going to have ban me, because I’m not apologizing. You yourself have fostered a tone of “edgy” commentary and now you have to sleep in the bed you made or censor people like me who have no qualms about taking measures more extreme than those put on me. It’s your content and you have every right to not let me contribute, but I’ll exercise my freedom of speech before you do and tell you that you’re being hypocritical to the thousandth degree in doing so before you remove my comment and ban me outright or deny my registration on future articles.
What’s the difference with you saying guys like George Galloway are lying sacks of shit or that Jesse Jackson can go fuck himself and me using an obvious “button pusher” bad word in repsonding to a comment by Stormy to exemplify a point? When you yourself resort to foul language, at what point does someone like me cross the line when I use more extreme foul language? (In my opinion, the moment you use foul language, you’ve opened the door to letting it all fall apart afterwards.) When someone responds to what I consider a legitimate debating point with name calling and verbal abuse, who’s to blame for the overall tone of the content when you are the spark for the tone of the “debate?” When people claim that because I oppose the war, I’m a moron, un-American or an idiot who is willing to watch Isreal perish at the hands “islamofascists,” am I suppose to take that lying down?
Please.
That’s a very slim tight rope you are walking, and I think you know it. If you don’t see how precarious a position it is to allow “edgy” partisan discussion to exist mixed with a decent dose of ad hominem attacks from BOTH sides, then I’ve given you far too much credit.
I’ll tone it down when you tone it down. I’ll admit what I said crossed the line, but I did so to prove a specific point. I know I crossed the line. I admitted that. THAT WAS THE POINT. I think you know that considering you vehemently defend the right of so many in the political arena to say things that are “tone deaf” but at their heart have a specific point to make.
I used a word whose only difference from the word “can’t” is an apostrophe and the letter “a”.
You want me to apologize? Ban me please. I will do no such thing.
You can start by changing the title of the post. Don’t let the door hit me in the ass on the way out? That’s how you want to clean house? Fine, the door will hit me on the way out. Please close it and close it hard to let me know just how much you think I’m an ass. Boo hoo. Poor me.
EXACTLY. Fully agreed.
Here’s the deal John Cole. I’m not an idiot, stop acting or talking like I am. I’m actually a damned reasonable guy who is a registered independent voter. I don’t believe in voting for Republican or Democrat just because I’m supposed to. I believe in results and our government should operate on results. Full stop. I have no political party that operates like that, but I feel I’m like a majority of Americans who sit in the moderate, middle position, which you appear to sit in based on what I’ve read from you over the past year. I believe in admitting that I don’t know everything so that those who do know can inform how I should lok at the world around me, or how I should consider a certain viewpoint.
Here’s what I believe:
I think you have a damned good shot at making a blog that could be extraordinarily useful to the political discussion for those of us who can’t stand discussing anything with the far right or far left types in this country. At the same time, you continually treat far too many on this site with contempt after they basically follow your own example in terms of tone and rhetoric.
I beleive that when you tone it down, and that when you figure out how to work with Tim F on posts, you’ll succeed in creating something that is long overdue on the web: a place where people can find a truly moderate position. The fact you invited Tim F to blog on BJ is an incredibly positive sign that you see the value in a MODERATE position for political discourse.
But I view you in the same way I tend to view Bill Maher. Whenever Bill Maher, whom I think is a pretty smart political comedian, introduces Ann Coulter as “my good friend” I think to myself, Excuse me? I don’t know Ann coulter on a personal level, but her partisan rheotric is so amazingly couterproductive I have no idea why Maher thinks it’s important to introduce someone who INVITES PARTISAN ATTACKS and begs for fights in the way she does. In truth, Maher does himself no help when he acts like an ass, and he knows it. It’s part of his routine. To be edgy but only when it’s convenient for him to be edgy. But if Maher was interested in honest debate, he would not invite Ann coulter on his show and he would not daresay she was his good friend.
I think you are a reasonable guy. The kind of person I could sit in a bar and truly have a honest, direct and aggressive political discussion with. The kind of person whom I might not see eye to eye on many policy issues, but whom I could disagree with and still feel I left the conversation knowing more or being exposed to more than I entered it with, which I find makes me a better person. but I also know that if you got too aggressive or went down a path that was overly emotional or unreasonable, I know I would do the same right back at you in that conversation to the detriment of us both.
In short, I challenge you to tone it down. To stop with the button pushing. To stop with the kind of arguments that lead to nothing but snark and ad hominem attacks in the comments. I challenge you to cut off petty comments by the likes of those commentators on the right equally as you do those on the left. You’ve taken great steps in inviting Tim F to post entries. He’s a very good moderate left position to balance your moderate right positions. But IMHO you yourself have to set the tone, and everytime you fly off the handle, it creates an atmosphere where the rest of us do it as well.
In short, I won’t apologize. As I said so many months ago, I can behave easily within the constraints of reason, decorum and intellecutal honesty. But the moment you falter, I can’t gaurantee I won’t falter as well.
The funny thing about this whole democracy thing which I think is a direct corallary to the situation facing Isreal and the Palestinians: Unless you plan on killing your neighbor, you better learn how to live them.
I promise you I can live with you, but you’re going to have to meet me halfway. Otherwise, you’ll have to ban me and never let me near your yard again by hook or crook.
APF
Rooting out obvious trolls isn’t necessarily about limiting the scope of debate. Rather, it can equally-if-not-more be about encouraging non-demagogues/combatants to include their own two cents, that may otherwise be shouted-down by obnoxious nothings whose sole purpose themselves is to cut-off any reasonable disagreement and/or discussion.
Midshipman Enfield
Lines, don’t be such a hyperventilating little cunt. Man up.
Or, take up knitting or raising bunnies, you know — something better suited to your temperament.
John Redworth
John,
I am lurker here since I find your site to be decent and fair minded… I am one of those moderates that are left of center but rarely do I have problems with the articles on your site… I guess I am one of those people that do not look for the huge partisanship battles but enjoy true discussion on the topics and will respect anyone’s opinion, even if it does not fit my own ideal…
You have a great site here and it is a shame that too many people (and from what I have seen from both sides of the aisle) have forgotten to accept other people’s opinions but would rather yell, scream and launch attacks… this is not that uncommon on Internet as many of the politically minded sites have the same problem…
Just keep up the good work and keep up the persona of being closer to the middle…
Ancient Purple
I make no qualms in that I have taken a few pot shots here and there. Okay, I can calm that down.
John, for your part, can you at least establish a policy that spoofing is not tolerated? It seems to me that a lot of the heat comes from people who are simply trolling under new id’s for the sake of stirring the pot.
www
Andrei,
You’re a fucking loser.
Go back to DU. It’s where you belong, douchebag.
www
Andrei the Asshole said:
Cole, that sounds like a veiled threat. You’ve got this asshole’s IP address, and I can tell you how to track that address down to his ISP. If he keeps it up, call the FBI.
ch2
John Cole,
Just came to see what you had to say these days and it seems you’re dealing with civil war, or something like that.
peace.
Geek, Esq.
I come here because I want to debate reasonable, honest Republicans/conservatives/non-Democrats.
JC doesn’t spout Free Republic or Redstate talking points–I try to avoid spouting Daily Kos and DemocraticUnderground talking points.
Doesn’t mean that either of us is always, or even mostly, rational. But it does cut down on the noise.
Geek, Esq.
Lines:
Jeff G likes nothing more than to bait and insult Democrats and liberals. He’s like Ann Coulter with a beard and a smaller penis.
Geek, Esq.
This time stamp thing is funked up.
Anyhoo. The point is that Goldstein’s point is to be inflammatory towards liberals and Democrats. A lot of what he says about Dems and liberals is false, defamatory, dishonest, and just plain stupid.
We should simply not take the bait and engage people who have no interest in good-faith dialogue with anyone outside the Republican party.
And huge flame-wars in JC’s house over someone else is bad form.
Richard Bennett
The closed-door session was clearly nothing more than grandstanding. The ink is barely dry on the Libby indictment, so it’s way too early to be insisting on more Senate hearings on the aftermath of the Libby indictment, which never was Senate business to begin with. Let the courts deal with it.
Of all the things the Congress does, investigations are the most brazenly political and pointless. Invoking Rule 21 without prior discussion and at this point in time was clearly aimed at turning the cable news discussion away from Alito on back to the Democrats.
It was shameless and Jeff called it correctly.
Speaking of shameless, Joe Wilson is a shameless liar; we know this because a Senate investigation said so.
Frank
John- I usually don’t bother to comment here, but I feel I have to put my two cents in on this discussion.
Example first: A few weeks ago, shortly after the collapse of the levees in NO you were defending President Bush on some related topic, and I felt moved to point out that if you wanted to defend President Bush you would need to look into the canceled maintenance/upgrade of the levee system in NO. My post was painfully polite and frendly in tone so I was slightly dismayed when your reply was condecending (you called me “dear”) and without saying anything about the issues at hand you basicly told me to teach my grandmother to suck eggs.
So it was with some amusement that I saw, the next day you frontpaged a post from Daily Kos which was very insulting to you and made the claim that Bush was responsible for the destruction of NO. This time you made some effort to discuss some of the facts related to the failure of the NO levee system.
Having had this aspect of your personality brought to my attention I began to see that it is frequently the case on your blog that you don’t engage the issues until you have gotten your juices flowing by an exchange of insults. The idea that you are interested in a polite dialog is laughable. It would bore you to tears, and that is precisely why most of your commentariat is liberal.
Be careful that in trying to tone things down a bit you don’t get too much of what your profess to wish for.
Like I said, I don’t usually try to comment here, so ban me if you want, I still may enjoy reading the blog, but for those genuinly looking for polite discussion I don’t think this is ever likely to become a good place.
Try Obsidian Wings instead.
Gray
I don’t think JC should make such a drama out of the small percentage of comments that are over the top. Imho, the majority of commenters here engage in a heated, but not name-calling debate. Of course, there are some extremists, but they are on both sides of the spectrum. It looks as though John’s main point is that there are too many leftist comments here. Well, bad luck.
Why should it be the fault of his readers that his blog attracts more liberals than repubs? Is it possible that it’s more likely for democrats to reach out to the center and that republicans reject everyone, who’s not strictly party line, as a leftist?
However, I’d like to see less descriptions of body parts here, too. Some writers should be reminded that it’s possible to phrase insults in a classy, intellectual manner. Like this one: “I’d say that Rick Santorum has one
of the finest minds of the 13th century.” Hehe. I love it.
Baron Elmo
To Richard Bennett–
That story about the Senate committee calling Joe Wilson a liar is not factually accurate. The portion of the report that “discredited” Wilson was slipped in later by GOP senators Pat Roberts, Orrin Hatch, and Kit Bond. If that’s your evidence for Joe’s lack of credibility, I think I’ll continue to believe his word over that of the White House.
As for the ad hominem attacks and snipings that fill the air at this site, this occasional poster would personally appreciate much less of it, from right AND left. Civility, friends. Be the bigger person.
p.lukasiak
In short, I challenge you to tone it down. To stop with the button pushing.
and here we have the nub of the problem.
Our esteemed host freely acknowledges that he gets his jollies by “pushing the buttons” of progressives, and now is acting high and mighty when the kind of “dialogue” he enjoys provoking steps over some imaginary line.
As for Jeff G., he deserves every slam he gets. The GOP Senate leadership has been riding roughshod over the traditions of the Senate for years (most notoriously on the issue of Senatorial privilege vis a vis judicial nominations, but on a number of other issues as well, including the Senates oversight functions) Now that the Dems have shown Frist what the Senate will look like if he continues to do so, Frist has a hissy fit — and Jeff G. goes nuts.
Frist has been pushing the democrats buttons for years — and the democrats have decided finally to push back. Our host has been pushing progressive buttons with increasing frequency — and some of us have pushed back—hard.
If John Cole wants civil discussion, he has to consistently provide the leadership himself. He can’t say “I’m going to be an asshole in Thread A, but you have to act like I’m not an asshole in Thread B” — if you’re an asshole in thread A, you are still an asshole in Thread B; just because your meds have kicked in or something doesn’t make you any less of an asshole.
Jane Finch
I actually don’t find your comments section all that bad, even when it escalates to flame war status. You want real goofy commenters, go to Kos, Crooks and Liars (a site I like but never read the comments) or Little Green Footballs (a site that encourages the loons).
As some have said, you’re an edgy guy, and will thus attract edgy posters.
Gray
And one more thing, JC. If you want to ban commenters, start with this guy who’s hiding behind the pseudonym ‘www’ (I guess he didn’t enter a valid mailaddress, too). “f***ing loser” “douchebag”, say what you want about Andrei, but he hasn’t sunk THIS low. At least he tries to make a point.
John Cole
Frank- No, I am not perfect.
Gray- No, I don’t care how many liberals/Democrats there are posting here. Yes, WWW is an ass.
P. Lukasiak- Again, I am not perfect, and I know I get testy.
I am more concerned with the 3-4 people here who take things down to the gutter on every post and simply spend their time doing nothing but attacking anyone they disagree with. They know who they are.
Andrei- Adios. I asked you to apologize for using the c-bomb against Stormy, and you won’t. Worse, you then justified it, and acted as if Republicans in general caused you to use the term. Goodbye.
JP
I hardly ever post here, but feel compelled to now. I consider myself a moderate, I am in favor of small government, fiscal responsibility and personal rights. At the same time I guess I tend to lean towards some social liberalism. I think subsidized health care and higher education benefits us all (look at Ireland for an example) but have little faith in our current representatives to be able to pull it off. I really can’t stand partisan bickering – I think it does drive most of the population away from participating in the debate and you end up with people on both sides that have blinders on.
It must be great to have such firm convictions in your far (left or right) beliefs. It takes a lot of the worry from your life – all of the problems are caused by the other side.
I used to have a political discussion mailing list that had about 20 users and at one time, during the run-up to the war, I got into a name calling attack with one of my best friends. It was very disheartning – I know exactly how John Cole feels. We finally sat down and over a few beers and hashed out our differences. We also came to realize that part of our heated exchanged came from our mutual sincere love of this country.
If you are a leftie or a righty I think it is important to understand that most of the people on this board are here because they have very strong convictions but also a deep concern for their country. Before a knee jerk reaction – ask yourself “is this good for the country?”
Also remember that their are trolls everywhere, learn who they are and ignore them – they will go away.
As for the point that this is just grandstanding by the Dems, well… Duh! Everything inside the beltway is about grandstanding. Where are the leaders that care more about country than party?
Ok. Feel free to call me a pussy now.
DougJ
John, in all seriousness, I think you have every right to crack down on the language here.
But shouldn’t you also crack down on people calling each other traitors and America haters? Isn’t that worse than calling someone the c-word?
DougJ
I second that.
Sam Hutcheson
When you get over being angry that Andrei refused to obey your orders, re-read his post. He makes a few decent points regardless of his launguage in previous threads.
And really, Stormy doesn’t do a lot to maintain chivalrous tones in the comments.
John Cole
DougJ- Contrary to what is asserted here, I have never called people traitors or America haters, and the only person I can remember doing so is Richard Bennett, who does so simply to bait some of you.
Sam- I read it. All he had to do was apologize for calling Stormy the c-bomb. And I dont care if Stormy maintains a chivalrous tone- some things are uncalled for, and the c-bomb is one of them.
Tim F.
Lines,
Here’s how I see things. When somebody goes unhinged and you stay cool about it, even if it’s all pointed straight at you, you win. When somebody goes unhinged and you go unhinged back, nobody wins. If you can’t keep your cool then you’ll end up on the losing end of a lot of online arguments. Offline as well.
I’m not directing ‘you’ at you in particular, but responding to your comment in the general sense.
Tim F.
Strange that my comment appeared before the comment to which I replied. Methinks the code hasn’t had its coffee yet.
p.lukasiak
Lukasiak- Again, I am not perfect, and I know I get testy.
John, everyone gets testy. The problem (at least part of it) is that you deliberately provoke “uncivil” behavior in certain threads (that you label “flame war threads”) where you basically vent about “liberals” that you don’t like in a wholly irresponsible manner, then when you are called on it, you hide behind the “its a ‘flame thread'” excuse.
The attitudes and tone found in the flame threads that result from your provocations will inevitably bleed over into the comments section of your more thoughtful posts.
You’ll sit down and do a “venting against liberals” thread, and an hour or two later come back and do something thoughtful and intelligent. But the average reader of the blog reads and reacts to both posts and their accompanying comments at the same time — and that results in the migration of the “toxic” atmosphere in the flame threads into the comments section of the “thoughtful” threads — especially when there are people like XXXXXX around who are apparently incapable of informed rational argument in both threads.
It really is too much to ask that your audience switch from disrepectful disdain toward the more irrational members of your readership in the “flame threads” to treating these nutcases respectfully in your thoughtful threads.
In other words, if you want consistently respectful and civil commentary, you have to stop provoking disrespectful and uncivil commentary. Its your blog, and you can do what you want — but the question is not whether you can do what you want, its whether you can achieve the purpose you have set out to achieve. And you can’t, as long as you continue to “push liberal buttons” and encourage uncivil behavior simply because you feel like venting.
ChristieS
For what it’s worth, I’m a frequent reader, sometimes poster, female and left-leaning moderate. John, I completely agree with you regarding Andrei’s comment. The use of the “c” word has absolutely NO rhetorical value in ANY type of discourse. And I use ‘rhetorical’ in it’s truest sense.
Ad-hominum attacks get boring very quickly, so I usually skim through them quickly. That type of vitriol, however, is uncalled for. It shows a small mind that must sink to those types of viciousness to play the game of one-upmanship. To me, if you can’t make your point without being reduced to writing filth, then that’s evidence that you need to brush up on your vocabulary; not to mention your critical thinking and writing skills.
Just my opinion.
DougJ
John, okay you’re right. It’s just Richard Bennett who calls people america haters.
Obviously, I know you don’t say things like that!
Bob In Pacifica
I hope this means that when Stormy says I fight like a girl that she’s banned. That kind of talk hurts.
I’d also suggest Jeff Goldstein and his “d–kl–s f–kt–ds” be banned. They are plain mean.
And, John, while we’re censoring here, could you put a sheet over that statue over there? Er, statue, not statute.
John Cole
I am not censoring anyone. I am kicking rude people out of my house. They are free to stand in the street and yell if they want. They are free to but the house next door and do as they please. But they are not free to come in here and muck the place up.
P Lukasiak- You are probably right, to some extent.
Bob In Pacifica
John, I guess that www is banned, right? He called Andrei a “f–king l-ser.”
And how about that guy who keeps calling Galloway a “l-ying s-ck -f sh-t”?
How about calling someone an indicted perjurer?
Davebo
Here’s a hint Cole.
If you don’t wan’t Jeff whining about your commenters, don’t link to idiotic, fact free posts by Jeff.
I went to his blog and answered a simple question, providing facts and cites that were irrefutable.
What was the response? Whines, and you popping in for advice on how to ban commenters.
Drop the comments. Enjoy your 22 hits a day of folks stopping by to read you rehash news stories and whine about how you hate the GOP but Burt Bacharach keeps you firmly entrenched in the Republican camp.
Frankly the irony is that they guy who constantly uses the word fucktard is looking for a kindler gentler comments section.
rayabacus
To be correct it would be “indicted alleged perjurer.
p.lukasiak
P Lukasiak- You are probably right, to some extent.
damn! that had to hurt :)
John Cole
DaveBo- Up to your usual standards of accuracy, I see. I didn’t link to Jeff. Tim did.
And you would be one of the people I was referring to in this post. I simply have no idea why you even come here. You hate me, the Republican party, and you do nothing to add to the debate.
BTW- I would check out the difference between facts and ‘known facts.’ You are full of one, short on the other.
Also, this is your first comment, which I read three times and still can not figure out your point. And you are surprised people didn’t respond?
Cyrus
Comments were flying fast and furious on the thread that prompted this discussion, so I didn’t even see Andrei’s offensive remark before it was deleted. So I’m missing some of the context on this “cleaning up the site” discussion, but at least one part of it is clear…
Off-topic, I’ve never understood how requiring registration helps. Does the system only allow one user name per IP address or something, or is it simply that the effort of registering multiple IDs and handles would make pranks too complicated to be worth the effort?
On-topic this time, people get too legalistic about language sometimes. It’s George Carlin’s Seven Words, and it doesn’t make any more sense now than it did when it was new. Suggestion of registration requirements and threats of banning get inspired by an ad hominem four-letter word (as far as I can tell), not by much more vicious insults in the past on this site. Jeff Goldstein’s complains about being misquoted as saying Democrats want to “destroy America,” his defense is that he actually said Dems think “any damage done to the country barely rates consideration,” and he thinks that reflects worse on his misquoter than him.
All the obvious caveats apply here – your blog your rules, and I’m only pointing out right-wing examples because they’re the ones that have already appeared on this thread but left-wing ones do exist. But for what it’s worth, I’d say Darrell is as deserving of banning as Andrei, to choose the worst offender that comes to mind. Four-letter words are an imperfect measure of venom.
That being said, I hope you don’t decide too many changes are needed. Glitches aside, this is a great site and the diversity of the commenters is a big part of its strength.
Tim F.
Davebo,
It was me and not John who linked to Jeff Goldstein, whatever difference that makes.
Regarding profanity, nobody will ever be banned for dropping the f-bomb. If we use it in posts it’s got to be ok in comments. The problem is those phrases that you and I and everybody else know are beyond the pale – the c-word, the n-word and whatever else I can’t think of right now. I don’t care if some rapper or postmodern feminist musician uses it in their music, we’re not them. That stuff makes the commenter look bad and it makes us look bad and I completely agree with John about keeping a lid on it around here.
Stormy70
I consider this a tongue in cheek type of insult. I have been insulted here in some creative ways by leftists that are really funny and not mean-spirited. We kind of go back and forth, hence all the scotch and drunk references thrown my way. We all get a kick out of it if you have been here a while. I don’t resort to filth or calling people assholes or morons or the like. It is dirty pool and not very creative. I don’t call people I am debating with traitors or anti-American. I will call an anti-Semite an anti-Semite, but so does the Dem posters here. On that we all agree, and the offending poster will keep that nonsense in check or go away. Commenting can be light-hearted and a few above board zingers should come with the territory.
Gotta go earn a living now. Dammit! I wanted to be a trust fund baby!
Davebo
John
You can’t figure out the point of the comment you linked to?
Let me refresh your selective memory.
Evidently, the bi-partisan Senate report that already pronounced on such questions isn’t good enough—
Now the question referred to hearings into the pre-war intelligence lies of Chimpy McHilterburton
Are you saying the bi-partisan Senate report addressed any of those question? Or that an agreement wasn’t made then ignored to address them in the future.
You read it three times and couldn’t figure out the point?
Intellectually dishonest as the day is long. Because as we all know, you’ve posted on this yourself.
Basically you’re a caricature of the very Repubublican stupidity you complain about.
Davebo
By the way John. Tim F just made a post on the very subject you can’t seem to grasp.
Perhaps he could draw you a picture.
ppGaz
Well, at my house, “fight like a girl” means weilding a cast iron skillet, and winning.
So I don’t see where the insult was …..
DougJ
Perhaps I’m not the one to be telling people who not to act childish, but the name-calling is getting a bit childish here. It’s reasonable for John to try to stop this. It’s not censorship any more than not letting people wear flip-flops to nice restaurants is censorship. It’s about decorum, not about the control of information.
DougJ
Very funny. You’ve been on a roll lately.
John Cole
No, Davebo. Your post made no damned sense. Here is is, as it appears over there:
It made no sense. Tim’s post, which had the benefit of full S-V-O sentences, made sense.
Furthermore, you go to a conservative site and say things like “Chimpy McHitlerBurton,” and you wonder why people ignore you?
Additionally, your latest comment is a prime example of what is wrong with you, Andrei, and the band of a few who simply come here as a place to lash out at people- rather than take me at my word that I did not understand what the hell you were trying to say, you simply accuse me of ‘intellectual dishonesty.’ Because, you know- anonymous cowards running off at the mouth accusing people of ‘intellectual dishonesty’ isn’t funny at all.
Geek, Esq.
The direct application of the C-bomb should be used only against close relatives and friends. It’s really bad form.
The Commissar
Good effort, John.
Ban the disruptive IPs. No warnings. No “last chances.” You know who you are; trust your own standards of decency and fair debate. If you ban Andrei and davebo, etc. anyone with a shred of fairness will know why.
Frank
John- You say that Richard Bennet just calls non Republicans traitors just to provoke. Well I think the guy using the C-bomb was just doing it to provoke too.
It seems like you want a blog where Republicans can be as uncivil as they like, but Democrats have to watch their step. I guess I don’t have that big a problem with you doing that. Its your blog, its not like this is the US Senate where Republicans do the same thing. It seems like Republicans generally believe in one set of rules for themselves and a different set for everyone else.
It would be nice if you could just manage to be honest about it.
John S.
True enough, but non-anonymous cowards running off at the mouth accusing people of ‘intellectual dishonesty’ (or of being pro-Saddam etc.) isn’t funny at all, either (even if they are trying to bait someone). And lord knows the blogosphere is full of them.
Incidentally, this is not directed at you John (the culprits know who they are), so there is no reason for you to take it as thus.
John S.
Meh, strikethrough catastrophe.
Please disregard.
Oh, and:
Republican is as Republican does.
Davebo
John,
Perhaps you should actually read Jeff’s post.
Furthermore, you go to a conservative site and say things like “Chimpy McHitlerBurton,” and you wonder why people ignore you?
Now I’m being pilloried because I cut and pasted Jeff’s actual words?
Jeez! No wonder you couldn’t understand it after three readings. Perhaps try it again.
I’ll take back the intellectual dishonesty part John. I now feel it’s quite possible you are’t capable of it.
Therefore I’ll spell it out for you.
Jeff claimed, in his exact words this.
“Evidently, the bi-partisan Senate report that already pronounced on such questions isn’t good enough”
On the question of whether intelligence had been manipulated. The fact, as you should know, is that the committee refused to address these questions due to an upcoming election and agreed to look into them after the election.
Had you actually read his post rather than rushing to make silly complaints with no factual basis about mine, you might not look so silly now.
p.lukasiak
John- You say that Richard Bennet just calls non Republicans traitors just to provoke. Well I think the guy using the C-bomb was just doing it to provoke too.
Apparently, to john the “c-bomb” is like the “n-bomb”, you can’t use it and not expect retaliation. Whereas john doesn’t recognize that the “t-bomb” exists.
Personally, I don’t think Andrei should be banned for this infraction, because John himself contributes to the acrimony on this blog. If he’s going to try to clean things up, giving Andrei and EVERYONE a warning about the “c-bomb” is the way to do it.
John Cole
No, Dave. I read his post last night, and then just did a ctrl F to see your comments, and went right to it. So I did not remember hat Chimpy McHitlerburton were his words, not yours.
As to the rest of the post, it was difficult to make any sense of, so people probably ignored it. And now, you come in and accuse me of being incapable of intellectual honesty, as well as queering other threads, calling them circle-jerks. See ya!
I don’t know why you think I need to host people who do nothing but insult me. And it isn’t because I can’t take it- good lord, look at the things slide and ppgaz and I say to each other. It is because I don;t want to take it, and a few people have been making this place real unpleasant for everyone else.
The difference, btw, is, in your case, you don’t give a shit about anyone here, anything we are talking about, and choose just to come in here and throw fists.
chefrad
Foul language, like violence, is usually the penultimate resort of the inarticulate. That said, censorship is the absolute last resort. If there is content along with the vulgarity, so be it. Only tedious vulgarity warrants the axe.
John’s has the bully pulpit here (to say nothing of the White House and both houses of Congress). Had I such an advantage, I’d be keen for conflict, not shrinking from engagement.
John Cole
P Lukasiak- I am thinking about a cool down period after I weed out the few who I think are causing trouble. If things cool down, then I will unban the ip’s.
DougJ
I just think it’s wrong to call anything that is being proposed here censorship. If I kick you out of my house for insulting my wife, is that censorship?
Vlad
“It seems like you want a blog where Republicans can be as uncivil as they like, but Democrats have to watch their step.”
I have to say, this is how it feels to me as well.
Lines
Jeffy G is JC’s wife?
Mike
“John Cole Says:
Additionally, your latest comment is a prime example of what is wrong with you, Andrei, and the band of a few who simply come here as a place to lash out at people- rather than take me at my word that I did not understand what the hell you were trying to say, you simply accuse me of ‘intellectual dishonesty.’ Because, you know- anonymous cowards running off at the mouth accusing people of ‘intellectual dishonesty’ isn’t funny at all.”
So the question is why bother?
You appear to be somewhat conservative with moderate tendencies, why put up with the Libs? Just ban them and let them go off and call Bush Hitler and such as much as they want. They have their Blogs (Kos, DU, Atrios, etc.. Let them go there. Why would you want to talk to them in the first place? I don’t see the point really.
DougJ
Mike, if he did that it would just be spoofers like you and me. What fun would that be?
Vlad
Of course it’s not censorship, Doug.
circlethewagons
There should be an exception made for “spoofers” in general; if they’re funny they should stay, whatever their political leanings may be.
Steve S
Interesting point. I see Cole didn’t tell the wingnuts to shut up who keep calling Democrats traitors, communists, etc.
Darrell
Show us where a Republican/conservative on this site ever called a girl a c**t.. or anything remotely as offensive. I’ll wait to hear your reply
Sitting Dem Senators have called the President and VP “chickenhawks”. Dem Presidential candidate and former VP has called Republicans Nazi “brownshirts”. A sitting Dem congresswoman accused Bush of knowing about 9/11 before it happened.
Equivalent examples from Repub senators/congressmen?
DougJ
Steve S — I was trying to make that point, but John says it’s only really Bennett that does that. I think he’s right.
The Commissar
To all those who sincerely believe that John “wants a blog where Republicans can be as uncivil as they like, but Democrats have to watch their step.” …
Why hang around? If that’s the real situation, you are merely being set up and used as shills (a la Alan Colmes). Don’t participate. Just stop playing the Rethuglicans’ game.
My point is that you all know it just isn’t so. It sounds good, and you can draw a response. But you all know it isn’t so. If it were so, you would not hang around here for two seconds.
John Cole
Steve-
Seriously, Richard is the only one I have seen do it, and I have a pretty clear track record telling people who seriously make such charges what I think of them.
Hell, I attacked everyone at Red State, AT RED STATE, for the Durbin bullshit.
IF I seriously felt people were calling people traitors here, I would do something about it. If you can find people making such charges, let me know. If you do find them, however, I am betting they are simply driveby commenters, and not people who come here regularly.
Regardless, that does not excuse Andrei’s comments.
Blue Neponset
John,
This is one of the few political blogs where there is any disussion between people from the opposing parties/ideologies. I think you should be proud of that. I also think that is the root cause of the problem. If you put 20 Liberals and 20 Republicans in a room together and they began discussing politics how long do you think it would take before the first personal attack occured?
As long as you want to have people from both parties participating on your blog tempers are going to flare and nasty things will be said. That part isn’t really the problem. The real problem, as I see it, is there are a small number of people here who are deliberately trying to provoke you or others. Sometimes they succeed. It would be interesting to see how well the discussion goes without them here.
Steve S
Darrell –
Plenty of them from Newt Gingrich. Calling it Democrats fault that a woman killed her children by drowning them in a lake. Oh, and let’s talk about the anti-Abortion rhetoric, particularly from Sen. Coburn. And who was that unhinged Senator from Indiana who spent years investigating Vince Fosters supposed murder? Dan something.
I seem to recall a few stunts with him blowing holes in watermelons to prove his theories regarding blood splattering.
Don’t complain about the splinter in someone elses eye when you’ve got a log in your own.
Mr Furious
Yeah, but do WE? Name some names John. I want to know who the people on notice are, and I want to be sure they know too.
Here’s the latest example of my problem with what goes on around here:
Last week, before my vacation, (during which it seems all hell has broken loose around here) I put together what I thought was a thoughtful, composed comment on the whole Coach DeBerry fiasco. It was pretty early on in the thread, and was looking forward to a little discussion on it. I’m not saying this was Pulitzer stuff, but an an honest attempt to further the discussion. When I went back there were a bunch of new comments (50-60), and I thought “Excellent! Let’s see what people think!” Instead, it devolves into a feces toss between Darrell and ppGaz and others.
I don’t have the patience for that crap, and when a thread reaches 250 comments and probably 100+ of them are Darrell, I suspect most others don’t either. This shouldn’t be about censorship (I don’t care about the language), it should be about wasting everybody’s time.
People obviously cannot confine it to the flame threads or help feeding the trolls, so if you want to take measures to counter that, John, knock yourself out. I’m all for it.
PS: Thanks to shygetz and Disenfranchised for picking me up after I lost patience with that thread… Darrell’s selective, out of context bullshit is infuriating even days later.
Anderson
Been too busy to check out many 90+ comment threads lately, but good move, John. I prefer threads about the post & its issues, not about what Jack called Jill.
Just don’t go all “no profanity” on us, because that would be fuckin’ lame.
Mr Furious
I’m with Vlad and others above who reside on the left and feel like this comment is directed at only us. Read that again and tell me it’s our imagination.
If you think the lefties on this site are the problem, John, you’re fucking crazy.
This site will get boring in a hurry if we all leave. I come here first and most often. Every day, many times a day. The addition of a co-host, should only improve things. I am excited about that development, but it is crap for you to throw that kind of garbage out there and then hide behind “they know who they are.”
I know you don’t mean ME, yet I still find THAT more offensive and insulting to the hard work I and others on the left do around here to make this place interesting. I’d rather be called a c#nt than lumped in with worthless trash (from BOTH sides) that brings this place down.
ppGaz
I’ll let you know after you introduce me to her.
nyrev
If Darrell honestly thinks that “cunt” is the worst thing one can call a woman, he obviously hasn’t been one for very long. But it’s John Cole’s blog and he can ban people for whatever he finds offensive. He’s already put the kibosh on “D*** L*****,” and if he wants to keep people from swearing at certain mentally deficient Southern Belles, that’s also his perogative.
But as long as we’re banning stupid, inflamatory comments (but not Darrell, who despite being the father of stupid, inflamatory comments, is somehow above moderator reproach), I’ve got suggestions. “Chimpy McHalliburton/McCokespoon/etc.” should go. It’s not so much that it’s provocative, but it’s so damn tired at this point. Time to get a new schtick, guys. Other nominees for the chopping block: “Leftists,” “Fascists,”* and “Jooooos”. Seriously, ignore any of the other ones, but anybody who spells “Jews” with an “o” should be banned for life.
Anyway, these are all just suggestions from some nobody who hardly ever comments anyway. You may all now return to your regularly scheduled crap-flinging.
*unless referring to actual fascists, like Mussolini.
Mike
“Mr Furious Says:
This site will get boring in a hurry if we all leave.”
Do you really think so? Let’s find out.
Besides if you’re gone, why do you care?
Geek, Esq.
Darrell’s story gets more and more intriguing.
stephen stoner
I’d like to take this opportunity to point out that George W. Bush is a worthless, lying sack of crap.
Thank you.
Blue Neponset
Mike,
Why do you come here if this place is filled with people you don’t seem to like or respect? There are plenty of blogs that cater exclusively to conservatives and/or Republicans.
circlethewagons
Hear, hear!
Krista
Yeah, there’s got to be a happy medium. Sometimes, when in a spirited debate, there tends to be a bit of name-calling, or mockery. That’s fine, that’s cool, we can all take it or we wouldn’t be here. However, there are certain people on this site who are deliberately antagonistic. It’s one thing for things to get heated during the course of a debate. It’s quite another for someone to deliberately and aggressively start a fight with someone who has been perfectly civil.
Kirk Spencer
As one of the left-side posters, I tend to bow out when either side posts along the lines of “all the other side are ****.” Usually there’s a shortcut – seeing Rethuglicans or Kleptocrats is an example. Seeing either side call a whole party traitors is another. It tells me the poster isn’t interested in discussing the issue, just hammering the point that they’re right and the other side doesn’t matter. So, based on John’s past comments against people on both sides of the aisle, I look forward to the clean-up.
Oh – while I’m ranting, a specific response. Yes, it’s censorship. However, censorship is wrong and illegal in public forums. This website is not a public forum, so John has the right to restrict and remove according to rules he sets. As it’s not a public forum, we do not have the right to demand our say, but instead may agree with those rules or go elsewhere.
circlethewagons
Mike, that’s a dopey answer.
I come here precisely because its one of the only sites where left/right/inbetween/libertarian/noneoftheabove/or simply “just curious” can banter freely.
Usually in a humorous way.
And it’s this glorious mix of political persuasions that is largely responsible for the entertainingly informative value of this site.
In addition to John’s wise benevolence of course.
DougJ
Just checking to see if I’ve been muted…
Krista
Evidently not, but I’m sure that there are some who have been fooled by your alter egos, who would be happy to see you neutered, let along muted.
(I’m not one of them, though…I really enjoy sparring with you, it’s great practice.)
Anderson
Well, to this Dem, that just makes you sound like a big fucking sissy.
Oh, wait. That was so wrong of me.
Why don’t you go start your own blog called “The Sensitive Feelings of Mr. Furious and His Wounded-Dove Friends” and then you can comment all day about how tragic it is that Republicans don’t want you pissing in their comment threads. Hell, maybe you can find in the Constitution where it says John has no choice.
Rick
Well, Andrei won’t be missed. Balloon Juice already has an overstock of crazy and hostile.
Cordially…
Stormy70
I take umbrage! I am no Southern Belle. I am a Big-Haired Texan. And I own two iron skillets {see ppGaz}
DougJ – I tried hitting the mute button with you but to no avail. ;)
Darrell
I never said or even implied that c#nt was the “worst” thing one could say to a woman. I simply challenged this remark
asking for an example of equivalent ‘uncivilness’ from Repubs/conservatives on this site. Of course, he couldn’t produce it
DougJ
Is it me or does every idiot in the world have his own blog?
No offense, Anderson, but don’t quit your day job.
Krista
There’s an idea, John! You could have a promotion…after posting 100 comments, you get a free month’s supply of Celexa!
circlethewagons
what, did everybody just get back from lunch?
John S.
Absolutely. There is even this one nutjob that posts the most hostile and churlish messages and then signs of with “Cordially…” as if that undoes the tone of the post.
Krista
Do you really have the big hair? I thought that was just a stereotype. I have heard that Texans are rarely seen looking anything less than presentable.
John S.
My, don’t we have selective amnesia. All anyone needs to do is find a thread that Darrell has queered, and you will find an incredible volume of namecalling, incivility and rude comments from Repubs/conservatives.
I am also unable to produce a sperm whale on demand, but I suspect that isn’t proof that they don’t exist.
DougJ
Darrell, you can be pretty “uncivil” at times but I think it’s fair to say that you don’t cross the line Andrei did.
I do really think that what happens is that nitwits like Richard Bennett tee off the left and they end up taking out on the wrong people (e.g. Stormy and Darrell).
Darrell
Texas women are some of the hottest looking in the country, and friendly to boot
Anderson
Well, it was preferable than e-mailing the latest Bush atrocity to 10 friends every day. Their inboxes are grateful.
But as I was telling Mr. Furious, it appears that not enough idiots have their own blogs, so they have to hijack other people’s. “A blog for every idiot” is my motto from now on.
DougJ
Actually, Anderson, I misread your blog. It’s pretty good. I was just in a bad mood. Sorry about that.
You know, that Irascible guy really got to me. I need to cool off.
Rick
“Hostile and churlish?” More like disrespectful and mocking. Yet always………..
…Cordially…
P.S. Do “increase your word power” and look up “cordial.” And repeat the laff-riot over its associate with liqueurs.
Darrell
Just to refresh the memories around here, the thread Mr. Furious is referring to is one in which he actually said the statement: “mexicans make great margaritas, better than the typical white-owned restaurant”, was in and of itself a racist remark. That Shygetz, DV and others defended his position demonstrates how extreme so many of you kooks truly are
John S.
Exhibit A
But of course the right-wing likes of Rick and Darrell are always so polite and “cordial” that only the “kooks” on the left need to tone down their invectives.
Krista
Stormy honey…it looks like you have an admirer. :) I don’t know any Texan women personally, but I do have a beef with the appearance of one particular Texan woman: why does Renee Zelwegger always choose to use that closed-lip smirk instead of a proper smile? It’s not flattering…
circlethewagons
Racist against mexican margarita makers or white restaurant owners?
John S.
Exhibit B
Darrell calls a poster a little bitch.
Huh? When is a conservative poster ever rude around here?
Mr Furious
Hey, fuck you too, Anderson! I have my own blog (you might notice my name has a link), and I actually use it. I come over here because people actually read this one (unlike mine) and even comment and discuss things.
I actually agree with you that some people should start a blog since they clearly have the time and inclination to be online. That way the personal spats can “go outside” rather than hijacking every thread around here.
I don’t piss in the threads around here, and John and others know it, so if you and Mike don’t pay enough attention that’s fine, I wasn’t really talking to you anyway.
I just don’t think it’s fair for John to start MoveOn.org-ing everyone and acting like a bunch of unwelcome lefties came around and soiled the place. They didn’t. He was using much too broad a brush and he knows it (see the update).
The problem (as I see it) isn’t one of language or ideology as much as content. If people are only going to toss feces into a thread, it’s to the detriment of all concerned. If John wants to handle that in whatever way he sees fit, I’m all for it. I wasn’t around last week to see what caused all this to unfold, but I’m willing to bet, one of these personal shitstorms erupted into a Andrei calling Stormy a name everybody deemed “over the line” when many around here are often “over the line” in terms of failure to actually contribute anything of substance.
In my book, Andrei should get over himself and apologize, and everybody else might take a look at how it got to that point.
Darrell
LOL! I call a poster AND Bill Frist whining little bitches. Why of course that’s even worse than using the C-word! What a great analogy Jon S. You really seem intelligent
Stormy70
Not so much big hair, but well coifed. I do live in the plastic surgery capital of the world, although I don’t indulge in it. My husband thinks I’m hot, and that’s all I’m going to say about that topic.
Mr Furious
Darrell, you have really mastered the art of selective, out of context quotation. Apply now for your job as Brit Hume’s intern, dick.
You tried that same EXACT crap five or six times in that original thread and got called on it, and now you are dragging it over here? You are the very definition of troll with this kind of worthless crap.
Anybody who cares can go over to the thread in question and read the exchanges there the first time they happened and Darrell looked like an ass, instead of sending this thread off an a tangent.
In my opinion, you should have been the first voice muted around here.
Rick
John S, you are some hothouse flower, if you wilt so easily under my dismissive mockery.
Please, call me out on my “invectives.” In fact, I’d like to be reminded of anything I’ve written here that remotely approaches “invective,” never mind the foul-mouthed, spittle flecked rants of the “star” commentator (oh, big loss, that) of this here thread of John Cole’s.
Cordially…
Krista
Mr. Furious…don’t bother. Not worth it.
Darrell
Please do re-read that thread. I want people to see how extreme so many of you leftist whackjobs truly are.
“Mexicans make great margaritas”
Mr. Furious: “Racist!”
John S.
Rick: You have a knack for the clever turn of phrase. Too bad you have little to say that is worth reading. Perhaps if you applied that rapist wit to important matters rather than merry derision of the “effect” you have on posters. Nobody likes a misguided superiority complex.
Darrell: Being offensive is in the eye of the one offended. And quite frankly, the word “cunt” is only a heinous trespass in our country. In the UK it is a commonly used term. The point is that you are quick to sink into the morass of degenerate and useless posts.
Krista
There is a difference, I think, between a generalization and a racist remark. I don’t think it’s particularly racist or offensive to say that Mexicans make great margaritas. It is, however, a generalization. Surely they don’t ALL excel at margarita-making. This is just a silly example of course, but it does illustrate that arguments tend to result when someone decides to make generalizations about any particular group. Lumping people together is not always a bad thing, but rarely does anything good come of it, either.
The Irascible Richard Bennett
America-hater DougJ accuses me of calling people of his ilk “traitors”. I have no recollection of doing so, and as that word isn’t part of my normal vocabulary, it strikes me as a dubious charge.
I certainly have applied the terms “anti-American” and “un-American” to DougJ and his ilk, and not always ironically. There is an element of the Progressive Left that has nothing to say about America but trash, that sees nothing in all of America’s foreign interventions but the desire to oppress, exploit, and colonize, and has nothing to say about the internal dynamics of American life except complaints about the genocide of the virtuous Native American, the American invention of slavery, and the oppression of the majority – women – by the minority.
There is a lot of anti-Americanism on the left, and it’s not wrong to point it out when we see it.
John, if I had the power to discipline the commenters here I’d start with this DougJ character, and the offense I’d get him on is stealing other people’s identities, claiming to have made their comments, and generally posting comments under multiple pseudonyms. The surest way to guarantee an Internet thing will degenerate into trash-talking is to allow free use of anonymous and pseudonymous posting. Make people use their real names and the mudslinging is sharply reduced.
Please ban DougJ, he’s a cancer on the blogosphere.
John S.
Rick-
Ironically, you may want to “increase your word power”:
in·vec·tive (n-vktv) n.
Denunciatory or abusive language; vituperation.
Denunciatory or abusive expression or discourse.
The fact that you are typically denunciatory of anything most people say around here that you disagree with (or disrespectful and mocking by your own admission) pretty clearly indicates your love of the invective.
Blue Neponset
I don’t see too much distinction between calling someone an America-hater and a traitor. Are there many loyal America haters around these days?
Mr Furious
Careful, Krista, don’t want to get lumped in with the “whackjobs” and “kooks” like me…
(wink)
Off Colfax
(tries to derail the anarchy)
Just checking to make sure I’m not blocked off.
Also checking to see if anyone thinks I’m one of the DougJ clones…
(fails miserably)
(leaves for work)
Frank
Checking back in I see that a few people decided to quote me. The example of the US Senate referred specificly to the idea that one set of rules should apply to Republicans and a different one for Democrats. I could give a dozen examples, but here are a few: blue slips, the filibuster, closed (secret) sessions, comity in general (“go fuck yourself”) etc etc ad nauseum.
I do believe that one set of rules is being applied here to Dems and another to Reps. I haven’t seen any Reps banned yet even though everyone seems to see Daryl as the single most disruptive poster. I’m easily amused so I don’t mind insulting him right back though I am not likely to go on for 5 posts much less one hundred. I know even John thinks Daryl is the most disruptive because some of the first items I saw on this blog were frontpaged as Daryl flame threads.
John I don’t think you can be objective about this but I suspect if you start regularly banning posters this blog will rapidly turn into yet another right wing echo chamber. Thats fine with me, there are plenty of good places for discussion on the web. Soon there will just be one less.
ATS
The distinction between traitor and an America-hater is easily made–at least by Jonathan Jay Pollard’s lawyers.
The prosecutors claimed Pollard put another nation’s welfare ahead of the United States. Pollard’s defenders claimed he was only guilt of conflating another nation’s interests with the US.
Personally, I think hanging the guy would have been entirely justified, even though he probably didn’t hate the U.S.,so there CAN be a distinction between hating America and being a traitor. The problem in both cases is the damage done to US interests.
chefrad
Maybe John needs a refresher course at Jack Abramoff’s indian-funded West Bank sniper school.
McCain’s hearings today were an eye-popper.
Rick
Perhaps if you applied that rapist wit to important matters rather than merry derision of the “effect” you have on posters. Nobody likes a misguided superiority complex.
John S.,
Since you purport to gauge public opinion, what do the masses think of your delusions of adequacy, recently demonstrated by your reach in re: invective?
Mock! Mock! With “rapist” wit, but ever so…
…………………Cordially…
Anderson
Sigh. Whatever, Mr. Furious. If Cole’s blog is such a bad place to play, play elsewhere.
I recall that when I got tired of seeing Obsidian Wings threads decay into “Charles Bird sucks & is ruining this blog,” I jokingly suggested that someone form an “I Hate Charles Bird” blog & keep the spite over there. Which someone actually did.
So go form the “John Cole Is Unfair to People Whose Politics He Disagrees With” blog. Just don’t bore us with it. If he’s being unfair, he can live with the consequences. It’s a big Internet.
DougJ
He’s kidding. And doing a good job of it. The spirit of spoof is all around us.
John S.
Rick-
Don’t blame me for your lexiconical shortcomings. I didn’t write the dictionary – I just look up the words contained within.
If you don’t like the definitions, write to Roget or Merriam Webster. Perhaps they will sympathize with your plight.
Steve S
Interesting… Several posters over in this CIA thread are claiming John Cole hates America.
https://balloon-juice.com/?p=5950
John S.
Oh, and in case you missed my jibe with that “rapist” wit bit (which apparently you did), please reference the movie Dumb & Dumber.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Someone asked for commentors on the right who were offensive well…How about the guy who claimed people against the war were celebrating the 2000th american death?
I don’t get offended very easily, but that type of shit just crosses the line.
To this whole issue. I really do think Stormy did bring it on herself. I don’t agree with what Andrei said but Stormy indirectly asked for him to insult her more harshly. I guess she got her wish? She did handle it well though, she is a big girl afterall.
To tell you the truth, I never understood the big deal about the word “cunt” either. I guess maybe that is just me. It is just a word.
Sticks and stones…
Dave Ryan
Dammit people, this shit needs to stop. For gods sake, let’s all discuss the issues and not ourselves. If we focused more on the stands of the issues themselves and not on the people behind them, maybe people would realize this country doesn’t have to be so damned polarized as it is.
There seems to be more demand in the country lately for calling someone a neo-con or a leftist than actually calling for a solution on the issue.
Get off the damned name game and get into solutions, people.
Mike
“Blue Neponset Says:
Mike,
Why do you come here if this place is filled with people you don’t seem to like or respect? There are plenty of blogs that cater exclusively to conservatives and/or Republicans.”
I dunno, coming here is sorta like the magnetic attraction of rubber-necking a car wreck I guess. It didn’t used to be so filled with Moonbats. It used to be easy just to ignore them, but these days it seems like they’ve come out of the woodwork. Since I have no desire whatsoever to engage them in any way, perhaps you’re right.
Rick
Dumb & Dumber? Is that some “buddy movie” of yours?
Cordially…
Krista
Dave Ryan – thank you, for saying what needed to be said.
www
…
John S.
Rick-
I guess after 5pm your pool of insults turns into a pumpkin.
Better luck next time.
Rick
John S.,
And far from being “vituperative,” I extend to you the offer of help with your comprehension.
As for your delicate sensibilities, well, just try to butch up.
Cordially…
Rick
…now my html, OTOH could use a boost.
John S.
Rick-
Your reading comprehension could definitely use some work. I never suggested you were vituperative. Denunciatory – yes.
Please, seek professional help, or at the very least a good support group.
Rick
Back to the Moonbat Academy, John S.! Or I shall taunt you again!
Cordially…
John S.
I see you have come to an impasse with your tortured logic, which is not surprising since your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberries!
Kimmitt
Someone here has never been to Hawai`i. Even white boys gots to shout.
Dave Ryan
Dammit, people.
johnx
Its just that I’m so tired of people to the right of howard dean…
Though I don’t post comments, I’ll be letting the door hit my ass in case I do. Its been fun lurking. L8r.