I loved this write-up about the last day of Congress, in particular the first line:
The Republican-controlled Congress helped itself to a $3,100 pay raise on Friday, then postponed work on bills to curb spending on social programs and cut taxes in favor of a two-week vacation.
In the final hours of a tumultuous week in the Capitol, Democrats erupted in fury when House GOP leaders maneuvered toward a politically-charged vote _ and swift rejection _ of one war critic’s call for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. “You guys are pathetic, pathetic,” Massachusetts Rep. Martin Meehan yelled across a noisy hall at Republicans.
On another major issue, a renewal of the Patriot Act remained in limbo as an unlikely coalition of liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans sought curbs on the powers given law enforcement in the troubled first days after the 2001 terrorist attacks.
Both the House and Senate were in session after midnight Thursday, working on the tax and deficit-cutting bills at the heart of the GOP agenda, before returning to work a few hours later.
“What it does is start to turn down the escalating costs … for our children and our grandchildren. One of the things that we cannot leave to that next generation is a huge deficit that they can’t afford,” House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., said after enactment of a $50 billion deficit-reduction bill.
Democrats dissented, with one eye on the 2006 elections.
Personally, I think we should pay ’em twice as much for the crap they put up with and the fact that they have to have two residences (one in the expensive DC market), and this would make being a member of Congress more feasible for middle class candidates. However, a pay raise for Congress right now will play worse than it normally does with the general public.
Also, as a general note, if Marty Meehan is calling you pathetic, you are generally heading in the right direction. When Marty Meehan stops doing every damn thing he can to silence you and me, maybe I will pay attention to him, annoying accent and all.
SomeCallMeTim
When Marty Meehan stops doing every damn thing he can to silence you and me, maybe I will pay attention to him, annoying accent and all.
This is the terrifying thing about Republicans: a complete disconnect with reality. John, you are paying pretty specific attention to Meehan in both the sentence quoted above and the one before it. Or are you promising super-special attention if Meehan mends his ways?
John Cole
Hunh?
If the co-author of the vile and insidious Shays/Meehan ‘Hey, Public! Shut the hell up!’ legislation insults you, that is a badge of honor, When he reforms his ways, I will pretendto care what he thinks.
John Cole
I might add, this is the problem with Democrats- you see everything through a partisan lens. I wasn’t even thinking of Meehan as a Democrat, per se, I was thinking of him as the ‘co-sponsor of those awful god damned bills.’
ppGaz
Really John, you need an editor to stop you from publishing such things. You are quite partisan in this war context, no matter how hard you try — and I give you your props, you do try — not to be. But really, Democrats are partisan? And what? Republicans are not partisan?
Christ, that’s parody, man.
—-//
As for this war-resolution thing …. once you get on a horse, there is no doubt you’ll flog it until it’s not only long past dead, but has passed rigor, passed lividity, and liquified. You are now beating a liquified horse.
The stuff of comedy.
Sojourner
No, they’re trying to keep the wealthy and special interests from dominating the conversation. I have never understood the claim that restricting money restricts speech.
John Cole
This post wasm’t about the war resolution. It was about the pay raise. Hence, the title, ‘Congress’s Pay Raise.’
Hence, me highlighting the first paragraph of the story.
Hence, me discussing how I think they should receive double.
The bit about Meehan was just a throw-away.
I will tell you who has some ‘lens’ issues- you Democrats who read me. Jeebus.
John Cole
Some of you guy see what you want to see and nothing more. I just re-read this gain and again and I have no idea how the war resolution would become the focal point of discussion here.
ppGaz
That’s called “blaming the victim.”
But seriously … you really love us. You know you do.
John Cole
You are insane, PPGAZ.
Jane Finch
Re maintaining two residences: Look beyond their base salaries into their benefits and allowances…even here in the hinterland, elected officials get allowances for their second residences, plus travel allowances and per diems, not to mention a pension plan that is generous to say the least. Then check into the compensation for committee work, constituency offices etc.
ppGaz
Uh, because you made it the highlight of your post, and picked an anecdote from that “debate”, and then came back at the end and took the central figure of the anecdote and used him for your punchline?
Of all the things in the world related to a pay raise for Congress, you picked that one?
You are a very strange person, kemo sabe.
ppGaz
You know, I don’t mind the gratuitous chain-jerking, really. As a Usenet veteran, I know it’s all part of the game.
What is crazy-making is the constant denial of it.
You write like a guy who would drop a baby to pick up a quarter on the sidewalk, and then say, “It’s not about the damned MONEY!”
Funny, really. Subtle humor.
Sojourner
I never know for sure when John’s just playing with our heads. For that matter, it wouldn’t surprise me if John turned out to be DougJ.
I thought I understood John’s position but I’ve subsequently concluded that I don’t. I think he likes to stick a foot out and tap around into new, non-Repub turf but chickens out at the last minute. Then compensates for his disloyalty by beating up on Cindy Sheehan and other people who really don’t matter in the broad scheme of things.
Rob
So you are going on record preferring http://www.JeanSchmidt (Wicked Witch of the midWest) over Meehan.
Rob
Hey what happened to my picture?
I had a link to http://webpages.charter.net/micah/jeans.jpg
in the previous post. It showed up in the preview.
Paddy O'Shea
Fiscally conservative Republican. Now there’s an oxymoron!
Interesting article that would upset Rush very much should you so-called conservatives read it:
Bush Borrowed More Than All Previous Presidents Combined, Group says
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200511/NAT20051104b.html
John Cole
Now I am being psycho-analyzed.
Rob- Yes. Black or White. It would be impossible for me to dislike Marty Meehan and Jean Schmidt at the same time.
Rob
No, who Marty was calling pathetic was Schmidt, at least it seemed that way to me from the news clips. So it seemed called for to me.
Sojourner
Nope. Just trying to make sense of your position. Apparently I’m not the only one who finds it baffling. You get into a snit over the oddest things, then give the big ticket issues a pass. How else to explain it?
John Cole
What big ticket issues have I ‘passed’ on?
ppGaz
And, for free!
When David Steinberg was a young comedian, he used to a routine where he played a psychiatrist, seeing a new patient for the first time.
The patient would come into the office and see several places to sit. Indecision would set in.
Steinberg would be congenial: Oh, sit anywhere. Really, I don’t mind. Couch, chair over here, that one over there, loveseat. Whatever you like!
Finally … after great hemming and hawing … the patient would sit down.
Steinberg would point at her and scream: SCHIZOPHRENIC!!
Funny as hell.
Welcome to Balloon-Juice.
Sojourner
You don’t seem to be particularly concerned with the dishonesty of this administration and the outing of a CIA agent. Yes, you have devoted space to it but you get a whole lot more bent out of shape over Cindy Sheehan than you do with the profound corruption of this administration and the impact of that corruption on national security.
ppGaz
It’s a possibility. But there’s a style difference that is too great to explain any other way than that they are two different people. If John is DougJ, then he is Da Man, that’s all I can say.
But John definitely plays with our heads. No doubt about it. Took me a long time to get used to it.
John Cole
Sojourner- If you mean I don’t get as exercised as Armando and John Aravosis, you are correct. I do think it is a big deal, though. I also hammer the corruption constantly, and find it dismaying. But you have to remember, a lot of the charges that are out there are simply bullshit allegations.
There is a difference, though. Whatever damage done (if any) by the outing of Valerie Plame is already over with. Cindy Sheehan and her supporters, however, are pushing a DISASTROUS, policy, one that the vast majority of readers here would agree is utter nonsense. Many of you cheer her because finally ‘someone is holding BushCo accountable,’ but what she is really pushing, immediate withdrawal from Iraq AND Afghanistan, as well as a bunch of anti-war left feel-good pablum, is outright dangerous.
Another reason I spend so much time on Cindy Sheehan is because I like throwing it in the face of the Democrats who cynically banded behind this woman ONLY because they felt no one would take her on. She was, as I have stated, viewed as the perfect weapon. It is the same type of crap they tried with Kerry’s service- we aren’t allowed to disagree with him, or we were ‘questioning’ his patriotism. She is just a ‘grieving mother,’ so I am not allowed to point out she is a nutjob? Nonsense.
Finally, the last few posts on the increasingly irrelevant Cindy Sheehan have been just to tweak you all.
ppGaz
Sure, you’re allowed. And it takes away, completely, any moral authority you have to speak on the subject. The woman stands up to make a point, and you talk about her personality? It’s the point that counts, not her personality. And the point is the one that Sojourner made upthread. That is the point. And so by avoiding the point and focussing on the high-school-boy version of the story, you make yourself look like an ass, John. And I say that to you in the most nurturing way, because if I didn’t think you were better than that, I’d treat you like Darrell or Stormy, who aren’t better than that.
No shit.
John Cole
PPGAZ- You are certifiable. I haven’t discussed her personality, as I have never met her and have no idea what her personlaity is. I have attacked the cult of personality that swarms around her, and I have attacker her positions (which is what makes her a nutjob). but not her personality.
You just make shit up, don’t you?
ppGaz
You’ve got a lead ear on this subject. That’s the upgraded version of a tin ear.
Look at it this way: I know you take blogging seriously by the amount of energy you put into it.
What do you get, by following along after the “irrelevant” Sheehan and making faces … besides making yourself look irrelevant?
Think it over.
Sojourner
Comparing Sheehan to the outing of Plame makes no sense. Who gives a shit about Sheehan? I mean, really. Is anyone going to die because of Cindy Sheehan? Do you seriously think she will have any effect on foreign policy?
This is by no means the case with Plame. And I think you’re mistaken that the damage due to Plame is over. How many undercover operatives or those thinking about becoming one may have second thoughts because it’s now okay (at least according to every Repub who is not completely and totally outraged by this) to out operatives if someone decides there’s a political advantage to do so.
SomeCallMeTim
John, I was joking. It wasn’t a terribly funny joke, and apparently, it wasn’t a particularly clear joke, either.
SomeCallMeTim
You are still evil, though.
Robbie
Oh, Cindy’s personality is just a bonus. The woman’s points about the war on terror are unhinged and dangerous. That the Left invested so much moral authority in her, and then she went off yammering about the Joooos and how America isn’t worth dying for – yeah, that was a present. She managed to confirm everything people on the Right suspected about the radical left – that they really don’t seem to like this country terribly much. She’s the rhetorical gift that keeps on giving.
ppGaz
So I should attack you as being no different than Stormy or Darrell … since they “swarm around” you?
That makes no sense to me.
Or are you a liberal since liberals swarm around you?
Sheehan is what I said she was the first time you brought her up: A ditzy lady who lost her kid in a war, and has an opinion. That’s it. Everything else is just blahsphere bullshit.
She thinks she lost her kid for no good reason. Focus on her ‘swarm’ or her telegenic qualities or her political speech. Sure, anything but the GODDAM POINT.
The point is the one Murtha addressed on the MTP today: Congressman, would you vote as you did three years ago, to support this war, if you had it to do over again?
Murtha: Of course not.
Is he a certifiable nutjob? Are two thirds of the American people now certifiable nutjobs?
neil
…vote and swift rejection of one war critic’s call for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq.
No. No. No. It was a vote and swift rejection of a war _supporter’s_ call for the immediate retreat from Iraq. They could’ve voted on the war critic’s bill, but they explicitly wrote and voted on a straw-man bill instead, and it apparently worked because every single reporter is going along with the lie. Disgusting.
ppGaz
You post shit to “tweak” your readers, and I make shit up?
Hey, fuck you, man. If you can’t be honest about this, fine, but don’t blame me for it.
You can’t take criticism at all, John. You’re a baby.
Sojourner
Who did? A bunch of nobodies? The usual camera-seeking suspects that nobody cares about?
Robbie
–Who did? A bunch of nobodies? The usual camera-seeking suspects that nobody cares about?–
Don’t be disingenuous. That’s irritating. Everyone remembers the “absolute moral authority” debacle and how endless media and political figures on the Left venerated her.
Playing stupid is no fun.
Sojourner
Oh please. That lasted five minutes.
I read a fair number of opinion pages and blogs, and about the only time I hear Sheehan’s name mentioned is on this blog.
Paddy O'Shea
Pretty much a rule of thumb around here. Any time the tighty righty ditto dummies find themselves backed into a corner, the start hissing about Cindy Sheehan.
They’ve heard about how evil she is from the usual reactionary AM radio demagogues so many times, they automatically assume everyone shares that point of reference.
Fact remains, however, that if you want to locate the exact moment Bush’s poll numbers began their dramatic and terminal decline, it would be when Cindy Sheehan made her stand outside Rancho Chickenhawk and demanded to be told why her son had to die in this cooked up tragedy of a war.
I suspect that is why they hate her so much.
Not that the Rushmonkey trailer camp of opinion on Cindy matters all that much, mind you. She going to sell a ton of books and make a lot of cash. And good for her.
There is no such thing as bad publicity when it comes to moving paper, you know.
Sine.Qua.Non
John, as a liberal (obviously), I never supported Sheehan’s stance. I felt sorry for her, as I do everyone that has lost someone in this war. Don’t group everyone together as a Sheehan issue supporter. I believe most people supported her right to actually take a stance and demand an explanation from Bush. I do believe she took it too far and is doing so again – which has made her into a loony-tune of sorts. However, we deserve explanations everyone seems to want these days – whether you agree or not that we were ‘lied’ to by the administration to get into this war. Frankly, Sheehan is a side-issue which only enabled the reasons for the war to be highlighted and discussed in the media. If nothing else, that was a positive outcome.
After reading all these comments, I had to go back and remember why I was going to comment on your post in the first place.
Pay raises: As an earlier commenter posted, these guys already get a whole lot of other benefits besides their salaries as stated. With a seriously scary deficit, the last thing needed is pay raises for these guys when they can’t even raise the minimum wage (wouldn’t want to hurt those corporations now would we)! Their total additional wages is about $1.13 million/year. That doesn’t include that yearly COL they get either. Ten years, over $1 billion. And to think, this administration actually restructured the federal pay schedules in order to lower wages fairly recently.
Sine.Qua.Non
By the way, swift-boating Kerry completely lacked honor, just like what has happened to Murtha. At least he fights back.
Laura
Exactly. I’ve actually met Cindy a couple times, but I don’t see her as a leader of any movement. I first met her at a Veterans for Kerry rally in Sacramento. The first thing that came to mind was what a classic soccer mom she is. In person, she’s warm and funny. She’s also broken. Losing a child will do that to anyone. Losing them in this war can make them especially batty. I wish, for her sake, she could reign it in. But I don’t think she’s able to. She’s been radicalized by what’s happened. I completely understand that. My dad hasn’t lost a child, but this war has turned him from a life-long Republican into a flaming liberal. If John called her a nutjob to her face, she’d be the first to agree with him. She only has herself to blame for being turned into a caricature. But every facet of her life, every political opinion, every social view is influenced by a torture I can’t imagine. That doesn’t mean she should have any special moral authority. In fact, it’s because her views are so tainted by her own trajedy, that they lose their value in a twisted way. If you can appreciate that, then leave her be. There are far more moonbats who actually do influence foreign policy.
ppGaz
I agree, I think. She has the moral authority of exactly one parent who has lost a kid to a war. No more, and no less. And that makes her extremely powerful, especially in a country like this where the power vested in the individual is considerable. As it should be.
To have this power, and exercise it, she does not have to be telegenic, or smart, or articulate, or politically adept, or connected, or nice, or polite, or agreeable, or anything. All she has to be is there, and unwilling to step aside. In that sense she is the student standing in front of the tank.
The more tineared people like Cole and idiots like Stormy and Darrell and TallDave make fun of her, the more powerful she is, and the more ridiculous they are.
Davebo
Wow.. Awesome comment Laura
Paddy O'Shea
Hey, if you think the goon squad hates Cindy Sheehan now, wait’ll they turn her book into a movie. Figure around, oh, the Summer of 2008?
They’ll be snapping and foaming like a pitbull with a clock spring in its belly over that one.
John Cole
Personally, I am done with this thread, as it was about Congressional pay raises until you all turned it into a Sheehan thread, but for fun I will count the number of times PPGAZ hurls insults at me before, without irony, telling me I can not handle ‘criticism’ and to ‘fuck off.’
ppGaz
You’re a liar, John. The first name-call was yours, when you decided I was “insane” about three posts into the exchange.
Unless you’ve deleted or rearranged posts, the record is right there.
.
What exactly provoked that?
Oh never mind. I don’t care, really.
Paddy O'Shea
You two really do need to get a room.
But please, promise one thing. You at least won’t talk about it, OK?
ppGaz
Funny. Really.
Pb
To veer back on topic for a minute: I think it’s fine for Congress to vote themselves a raise to offset the cost of inflation, but only if they do it for everyone else first. I think the minimum wage should be indexed to Congress’ salary increases–they should, by law, rise by the same percentage.
For those who haven’t been paying attention, the federal minimum wage hasn’t risen since 1997 (it went from $4.75 to $5.15). In that same time-frame, Congressional salaries increased by over 21%. That’s from $133,600 per year in 1997 to $162,100 per year in 2005 — given a 40-hour work-week (which they don’t have–note their two week vacation right now), that’d be $81/hr, or over 15.7 times higher than minimum wage. And when you adjust the minimum wage for inflation, it is actually at its lowest level in the past 50 years, which is a national disgrace.
So. Congress. Help the least of us first. Or, roll back your salary to $133,600 per year. I think you can afford it.
Jim Allen
Fah the reckid, Mahty Meehan does *not* have an accent. Not like, say, West Virginians, who ah bahyly undahstandable.
And he’s wicked smaht, too.
RiverRat
Jeebus,
John, why the hell do you put up with these firking moonbats? Are you masochistic? There is no practical way to change the minds of the mindless short of small high-voltage charges.
To your original point, I suggest incentive compensation for Congress. Pay them 1% of actually annual reductions in federal expenses and watch spending decline.
RiverRat
Yes Moonbats,
Firk is a real word. Just Webster’s Unabridged.
Choose your own definition.
Main Entry: firk Pronunciation Guide
Pronunciation: frk, fi()rk
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -ed/-ing/-s
Etymology: Middle English ferken, from Old English fercian to convey, bring, proceed; akin to Old English faran to go, travel — more at FARE
intransitive verb
1 dialect Britain : to move quickly : HASTEN; also : to be lively or frisky
2 dialect Britain a : JERK, TWITCH b : FIDGET, FUSS
transitive verb
1 archaic : BEAT, STRIKE, CHASTISE, CONQUER
2 obsolete : to get dishonestly : CONTRIVE, CHEAT
Sojourner
I would link their pay raises to minimum wage. Whatever rate they apply to themselves would also be applied to the minimum wage. This would ripple up so that a lot of people at the low ends of the pay scale would benefit.
ppGaz
Paddy O'Shea
Guess that makes River Rat a firk off.
Paddy O'Shea
If anybody wants a merry chuckle, check this one out:
Rumsfeld Says He Did Not ‘Advocate’ Invading Iraq.
http://www.afp.com/english/news/stories/051120164153
You know things have really gotten bad when even old Rummy is bailing out on Junior.
ppGaz
Yes, and meanwhile Bush has been advised of the weekend polling on last week’s various Debacles — the House vote, the attacks on Murtha, the insinuations that advocating withdrawal or questioning the war is hurting the troops or helping the terrorists …. and is backpedaling faster than your uncle Henry in a home movie run backward on the projector …..
Now Bush suddenly thinks that it’s just fine to question the war.
Why does this feel like the Katrina Show all over again? By next week Bush will be on tv explaining his pullout timetable.
Ben
Jane Finch says “Re maintaining two residences: Look beyond their base salaries into their benefits and allowances…even here in the hinterland, elected officials get allowances for their second residences, plus travel allowances and per diems, not to mention a pension plan that is generous to say the least. Then check into the compensation for committee work, constituency offices etc.
Speaking as a former Congressional spouse, most of your information is wrong. They DO NOT get allowances for their second residences, nor do they get per diems. They also don’t get additional compensation for committee work.
John,
The two homes boondogle doesn’t quite work… most members have a primary residence where their wives/kids live and then a small place in either their district or The District. Some of them even sleep in their offices (notice how rumpled some of them are). And, just for clarity, they do not vote for pay raises… in 1998 they passed a bill that provides for an automatic “COLA” that they would have to vote DOWN in order to not get a raise… only Congress could think that one up.
Downtown Lad
Isn’t this unconstitutional, as per the 27th amendment?
Steve S
Getting paid $162,000 is more than I get paid to put up with Republican drivel daily.
DJ Any Reason
Uhh, I guess its a bit late in the thread to be mentioning this, but the Meehan quote there was in response to Jean Schmidt basically calling Murtha a coward. Considering that John Cole has actually specifically adressed that instance, coming down pretty solidly in the anti-Schmidt camp, I think his “throwaway” line about Meehan was probably even more disposable than he knew when he was making it.
Mr Furious
Thanks, John amd ppGaz for flushing a perfectly good thread. You guys should be hosed off like a couple of dogs sometimes, jeez.
Lost in the fifty bullshit comments above was one really great point: Congress should not get a raise without the minimum wage getting a raise, and I’d add, or as long as they are running the gov’t in the red. What’s that guys? A deficit for the year? The very first item on the block should be Congressional raises.
Mr Furious
And John, your Meehan bomb at the end was thrown in wtihout any real context (you might have mentioned the Bill you were refering to/slamming him for) since it was unrelated to the topic of the thread…I had no idea what the fuck you meant by that comment.
ppGaz
Aw, buzz off. My “liquified horse” material was top-notch. At the awards dinner, I’ll be taking home a trophy for it, and you’ll only be attending as a seat filler.
Mr Furious
Yikes, my stuff is riddled with typos tonite (it is freezing here in my basement…) Thanks for highlighting that one, ppGaz.
I am all for calling bullshit on John, I’ve done it a couple times tonite myself, but carrying a pissing match that far is no fun for the rest of us and really washed away any usefulness for this thread.
The “liquified horse” was good, but it ain’t award-worthy. You’ve done much better than than that…
Mr Furious
The problems and positions of both sides cannot be more clearly demonstrated than by this chunk:
No wonder people tune this crap out. Hastert is absolutely full of shit, and Pelosi is broken record. Snore…
Bruce Moomaw
How about raising the Earned Income Tax Credit instead of the minimum wage? But SOMETHING needs to be raised other than Congressional salaries and the size of tax cuts for those currently making over a million a year.
I also note that the GOP’s attempt to hornswoggle people on just what the Iraq vote was actually about has paid off to a considerable degree: “House GOP leaders maneuvered toward a politically-charged vote and swift rejection of one war critic’s call for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq” — although Murtha himself said repeatedly before the vote that it was “ridiculous” to compare the GOP version with what he’d actually proposed. (Not only is “immediate” not quite the same thing as “within 6 months”, but there’s not a peep in the GOP version about Murtha’s demand that we leave swift-reaction forces behind on the border as a rearguard.)
Indeed, I think that while we’re insane not to pull our troops out of the rest of Iraq, we’d be insane not to leave them in the Kurdish section — as the Iraqi Constitution actually allows us to do (even in the unlikely event that it actually survives). The Kurds actually like us, want us to stay (mostly to keep both the rest of Iraq and the Turks off their necks), and are resolutely opposed to Moslem theocracy — all of them virtually unique in the region — and if we do have to take military action against Iran’s nuclear effort (by far the best single reason for getting our troops unstuck from Iraq as a whole), we’ll need a staging area. I was relieved to read in the Post a few weeks ago that the Pentagon actually does have plans to do that, thereby showing uncharacteristic sanity.
ppGaz
I this thread is haunted.
Anyway, I made a couple of witty posts to complain about you know what, and got called “insane.”
Send your complaints to him.
BIRDZILLA
They vote themselves a pay raise they have not earned
Krista
John, I was wondering, when you get a chance, if you could give us your thoughts on Laura’s post:
This is one of the most balanced and sympathetic things that I’ve seen written about Cindy Sheehan — she’s been painted as an infallible saint by many on the left, and as a calculating publicity-whore by many on the right. As with all truths, the truth about this tends to lie in the gray area, and I’m just curious to see what you think of Laura’s viewpoint.