I don’t understand this move:
A new plan by the Transportation Security Administration would allow airline passengers to bring scissors and other sharp objects in their carry-on bags because the items no longer pose the greatest threat to airline security, according to sources familiar with the plans.
In a series of briefings this week, TSA Director Edmund S. “Kip” Hawley told aviation industry leaders that he plans to announce changes at airport security checkpoints that would allow scissors less than four inches long and tools, such as screwdrivers, less than seven inches long, according to people familiar with the TSA’s plans. These people spoke on condition of anonymity because the TSA intends to make the plans public Friday.
“We’ll be announcing a number of new initiatives that will have both a positive security and customer service impact,” said TSA spokeswoman Yolanda Clark, who declined to comment on the details of the announcement. The plans must be approved by the Homeland Security Department and the Office of Management and Budget.
Faced with a tighter budget and morale problems among its workforce, the TSA says its new policy changes are aimed at making the best use of limited resources. Homeland Security Department officials are increasingly concerned about airports’ vulnerability to suicide bomb attacks. TSA officials now want airport screeners to spend more of their time looking for improvised explosive devices rather than sharp objects.
The TSA’s internal studies show that carry-on-item screeners spend half of their screening time searching for cigarette lighters, a recently banned item, and that they open 1 out of every 4 bags to remove a pair of scissors, according to sources briefed by the agency. Officials believe that other security measures now in place, such as hardened cockpit doors, would prevent a terrorist from commandeering an aircraft with box cutters or scissors.
A couple of quick observations:
1.) What kind of jackass is STILL packing scissors when he/she goes on a flight? I have been on dozens of plane flights, and never felt compelled to bring scissors with me. And please don’t tell me that you just have to bring your 99 cent sewing kit with you.
2.) Aren’t 3 1/2″ scissors every bit as dangerous as box cutters? If you read the article, the flight attendants think so.
3.) Some common sense, please. Lighters are not a threat, large sharp objects like scissors and 6″ screwdrivers ARE.
4.) Why are budgeting and MORALE issues forcing these changes?
In other words, what am I not getting here?
The Disenfranchised Voter
You do realize that the shoe bomber was using matches and that is why he didn’t succeed. A passenger saw him lighting a match and either said something or tackled him. If he would have had a lighter, it might have been a whole different outcome.
Can you explain to me why you need to carry a lighter or matches on a plane? If you really want to smoke once you land, can’t you just buy some at the airport?
Doctor Gonzo
4.) Why are budgeting and MORALE issues forcing these changes?
I think that’s made clear in the article: screeners are going to be spending their time looking for real threats.
It’s not that people consciously choose to bring scissors and similar items on board planes, it’s just that they do and wasting time dealing with these people is a real waste of time. I always carry a pocketknife with me wherever I go, but when I fly I have to consciously remember not to take it. Someday I will forget, and it will just be a hassle for everybody.
Besides, worrying about knives and scissors is fighting the last war. If anybody on a plane gets cute with a knife or a pair of scissors, he will have about a dozen passengers (myself included) “subduing” him at once. Nobody is going to be able to scare anybody with knives any more.
Finally, as one Australian MP put it last week (I think), if you were a passenger on a plane and you jammed a mechanical pencil into the eyeball of the person sitting next to you, you would have everybody’s attention. You don’t need scissors to attack another person.
Lines
I’ve never figured out why finger nail clippers are included. If I have a laptop bag that I practically live out of, I usually have some basic grooming utensiles in there. What am I going to do, clip someone to death? Death by ten thousand clippings? I know it hurts when you cut your nails down to the quick, but enough to hijack a plane?
Pb
What you’re not getting: TSA is still insane and incompetent. They’re like FEMA, but without all the experience and responsibility.
Are nail clippers still banned? How about transformers? Do they still scan and take these items away from the pilots, even though said pilot has access to an axe…
guav
I think banning all of those items are dumb.
Look, terrorists are evil, not stupid. Nobody is going to try to hijack a plane with boxcutters and fly it into a building again—it’s been done.
Besides, even if they tried to hold some sewing scissors to a passengers throat to gain access to the cockpit again, it WOULDN’T WORK. People know what comes after that, and instead of cowering in fear like 2001 hoping everything would end OK, every passenger within 20 feet of the hijacker would rush them and tear them to pieces with their bare hands.
While we’re spending all our time and energy banning anything that MIGHT be used in a 9/11-like attack, the terrorists are plotting entirely different attacks.
That’s why banning “pointy things” on flights is a waste of time, energy and money. The terrorists have much more imagination than that. I’m much more concerned with security around our ports, borders, and chemical/nuclear plants than airline security.
Marcos
Next they’ll just barricade the fore of the aircraft including the cockpit and first-class cabin. The rest of the peons can fend for themselves. pWn3rship society baby!
Steve S
If Lines attacks me with finger nail clippers, why I’ll use a nose hair trimmer on him!
Al Maviva
They have reconsidered the earlier bans because they have had a couple years to study the problem, figured a few things out, and paid a terrible political cost for overreaching. There’s also a legal problem, for diabetics with sharps, ostomy scissors, etc. That’s pretty simple, isn’t it?
Besides, given the relative impossibility of ensuring the total safety of the entire air transportation system in the U.S., I don’t think the goal was to achieve that. Rather I think the goal was to prevent more or less obvious attacks, and to reassure people air travel was safe. It is an unremarked fact in the GWOT that preserving our “way of life” which includes both civil liberties and a reasonably robust economy (in which air travel is a central feature) is a valid goal.
Perry Como
You can’t buy nail clippers at the airport. When I asked the guy working the counter if they had any any, he replied they aren’t allowed to sell them.
It cracks me up that I have to remember to remove my Leatherman from my laptop bag. I’ve seen my laptop bag go through the xray machine. With a cell phone, gameboy, psp, ipod and all of the associated chargers, there’s no freakin’ way those screeners know what I have in there. I’ve had one lighter removed (another one remained) out of last 20 or so flights I’ve been on. I keep two lighters in my bag.
TSA is a joke. The sooner they realize that they are a self-parody, the better.
Vlad
“You can’t buy nail clippers at the airport.”
Bull SHIT. I bought a pair at Pittsburgh’s airport just last month, at a convenience store past the security screening.
If they segregate the pilots from everybody else with big metal doors that lock from the inside, there’s no way a passenger could use a screwdriver to finagle his way into the cockpit. Sure, he could start stabbing his fellow travellers, but he could do that just as easily in a bus, or at a Wal-Mart.
This is a patently sensible measure. It focuses screener on actual threats to the plane (explosives and bioweapons) and lets people get the hell on with their lives.
Steve S
But Vlad! What happens if Inspector Gadget get’s on board the plane, and while he’s distracting the flight attentdent, this arm out of his hat comes out and takes the door off it’s hinges?
These are real threats! We need to be watching for them!
The Disenfranchised Voter
I asked why you can’t just buy matches or a lighter at the airport…
What is all this talk about airport nail-clipper buying?!
LOL.
Perry Como
Not at Newark. I flew out of there
Perry Como
Meh. Damn < tags. Always forget about those. Anyway, vendors at Newark won’t sell you nail clippers as of 1.5 weeks ago. I don’t remember seeing lighters either.
Mr Furious
Dumb. Just dumb.
Yeah, these objects don’t represent the same threat the once did now that cockpits are more secure, but what is the point of allowing this stuff back onboard? Blades less than four inches are cool? How fucking thick does the TSA think the wall of my jugular is? Are they going to hand out four inch thick turtlenecks for everyone? And screwdrivers? Who the hell needs a screwdriver on board?
There is no sense in allowing potential weapons on board a plane where people are trapped at 30,000 feet, whether they can be used on the pilots or not.
TSA can quietly shift priorities and resources if they want, it’s probably prudent, but I see no need to annnounce new relaxed standards.
—
That pilot linked to upthread, has a good point. These employees are basically forced to live out of their carry-ons for extended times and should be able to somehow bypass this crap. If the pilot means a flight harm, it’s not coming from his nail clipper…
Lines
Nail clippers have a higher snark value than matches or lighters, I guess.
Mike S
Totally agree.
In the duty free shop at LAX they sell a bottle opener that is about 4″ long and pointy at the end. The things like a friggin knife.
DecidedFenceSitter
Amusing Anecdotal Story:
December 2005, my wife and I are flying to my parents for Christmas. I’m a large 6′ tall man dressed in a duster and hat (not a cap, but a real hat.), and wearing generally dark clothes (better to hide the travel grime). My wife 5’4″, is traveling in fairly normal, neutral colors.
I get pulled asided, and my backpacked searched, and they confiscate my beard scissors. (I was travelling with all carry-on luggage, and I didn’t think about it.) No big deal.
My wife, who does a lot of textiles (sewing, weaving, spinning) travels through immediately after me. We realize, upon getting to Vermont that in her carry on was:
1) 6″ sewing shears.
2) 2 metal knitting needles.
3) 4 sharpened wooden weaving needles.
And this was three months after 9/11.
Don
Yeah, these objects don’t represent the same threat the once did now that cockpits are more secure, but what is the point of allowing this stuff back onboard?
Golly, I dunno. So I can go about my fucking life? So I can have the least disruption in my routine and what I carry in exchange for my several hundred dollars in airfare, the taxes I pay on that airfare in 9/11 security fees, my regular taxes themselves. I have to go through my pockets and belongings before I get on a plane and figure out what items have to be surrendered for my role in Security Theatre despite them being perfectly safe in a million other situations. For some reason it’s a matter of national security if I give a flight attendant a nick little worse than a paper cut but not if I do the same to the server at California Pizza Kitchen.
The question that should always always ALWAYS be asked when pondering limiting the consumer’s choices and freedoms shouldn’t be “why not?” it should be “why bother?” Not just because it’s annoying, but because it has a negative impact on us in a number of other ways. It costs us money to do this pointless dance, both as flyers and as taxpayers. It slows down the lines and impedes travel which harms an already struggling industry. If more people drive rather than fly because it’s such a pain in the ass it means more cars on the road causing accidents, pollution and wear and tear on roads… which, if you’re not clear, are all things that impact your wallet.
But on the other hand, this farce brings the TSA a few bucks.
Bruce Schneier talks about the foibles of TSA security on his blog and illuminates a number of the tradeoffs and costs of this often farcical effort.
Bruce
John, you seem to ignoring the last sentance of your excerpt:
Officials believe that other security measures now in place,such as hardened cockpit doors, would prevent a terrorist from commandeering an aircraft with box cutters or scissors.
…………………
On one hand they might hurt people with a screwdriver, but not be able to get to to cockpit, vs. getting a bomb on board with the potential to bring the whole plane down.
Which is worse?
neil
Remember that Helios Airlines flight that crashed a few months ago? I don’t have a link handy, but I remember reading that the forensic analysis determined that the flight depressurized, which caused everyone on-board to lose consciousness or die due to lack of oxygen, except for two flight attendants in the cabin who got to oxygen masks in time.
They died trying to open the reinforced cockpit door to regain control of the plane.
Has increased airplane security cost more lives than it’s saved? Very possibly so.
Steve S
As a computer guy, I usually carry several screwdrivers in my laptop bag. Generally need at least a phillips and usually a T-10 torx so you can open up servers.
Besides, didn’t you ever hear…
An Armed Society is a Polite Society.
If everybody on the plane has a gun, terrorists will be very wary of trying to take it over. Or aren’t you aware of the right-wing talking points which only conveniently fit certain scenarios?
Vlad
“And screwdrivers? Who the hell needs a screwdriver on board?”
I wear glasses, and I have big fat fingers. When the screw falls out of my glasses frame, it’s a bitch to get back in without a screwdriver.
Remember: When screwdrivers are outlawed, only outlaws will have screwdrivers!
Vlad
Speaking of the TSA, this is beautiful:
“Attention, travelers with nipple piercings: If you plan to fly out of Pittsburgh International Airport this holiday season, bring your pliers.
Otherwise, you might miss your flight.
At least one passenger who traveled through Pittsburgh learned this the hard way. She had to remove her piercings in a restroom after airport security told her she couldn’t get on a plane with her hardware intact.”
StupidityRules
neil said:
Remove any kind of door and give the pilots their own entrance to the cockpit. Even if the two flight attendants had been able to reach the cockpit I doubt it would have made any difference. It also makes it impossible for the pilots to let people into the cockpit for any kind of reason and you can lose the stupid idea of arming them.
But if you do believe in movie plot scenarios where the pilots suddenly both have heart attacks and the nerdy 17 year old guy who spends 12 hours a day playing flight simulators saves the day then I guess it’s a bad idea.
Donald
Get this, I didn’t think and packed two 8×10 pictures in frames, at security they saw a tiny pair of sissors and spent 15 minutes finding them. In the process the guy tells me one of the pictures I packed had broken glass, just to let me know.
Think about it…this guy lets me on with two 8×10 peices of glass that easily could be nasty weapons. Unbelieveable
Ric Locke
There’s just too many damned banned items for the screeners to keep up with. As a result, they’re Hell on the item du jour — immediately after the banning of cigarette lighters they started going after those with a fine-tooth comb, ignoring the no. 1 Phillips screwdriver IN THE SAME BAG — and everything else slides. It simply isn’t possible for a human being to efficiently scan for all of them, and we don’t have computers do it because of ‘way too many false positives.
Reducing the number of banned items lets the screeners concentrate on a few important ones. It also lets the passengers quit worrying about getting wrestled to the ground and wrap-strapped for carrying a nail file. Let us passengers worry about the guy with the scissors — I’ll throw my laptop at him (it’s an antique) and the big dude in 14D can take them away and deball him with them.
On another subject:
Bullshit. You’re talking about rebuilding all the airplanes FROM SCRATCH. Even if you were willing to ride in a airplane they’d cut another door in with a sabersaw, I wouldn’t — and there’s no place to put it, anyway. There’s stuff in the wall there (no matter which “there” you pick) that can’t be moved.
Regards,
Ric
Sojourner
Perhaps TSA should spend more time and money training the baggage screeners and less time on scissors and nail clippers.
Ric Locke
The baggage screeners are (relatively) well paid. They are asked to do an impossible job.
It’s the same situation that leads to anal-retentive customs agents. They get frustrated at having to remember whether or not left-handed widgets are permitted, or is it right-handed ones, and eventually decide that whatever they feel like at the moment is what the law is.
There is only one form of “passenger screening” that would actually do what is claimed for it: everybody strips off, is issued a temporary disposable paper bunny suit (and required to pay for it), and puts all carryon items in a box, which is sealed and put in an explosion-proof container which is shipped by truck. Guaranteed no weapons or explosives aboard. Anything less is, as pointed out by an earlier poster, theater performance to convince you they’re looking out for your interests.
I have a laptop. The laptop has a battery. I wear socks. Take off sock, put laptop battery in sock: deadly bludgeon, easy to kill somebody with.
I have pencils and ballpoint pens. Grab Suzy Sexpot by the hair. “This plane goes to Damascus, or I poke out her other eye!”
Some of the ballpoint pens have aluminum barrels. Take out cartridge, bite end, spit out ferrule. Dagger, one each, suitable for kidney distruction.
I wear a belt. Whip belt around somebody’s neck…
I wear glasses. Snap lens in half, begin slitting throats.
Ever bent a CD till it broke? More throat-slitting.
“Weapon” is a state of mind. If the other passengers won’t resist, weapons are freely available.
And if everyone is thoroughly disarmed, start recruiting great big guys who can beat the s*t out of people. No “weapons” required.
Regards,
Ric
RTO Trainer
Ever roll a newspaper up in a tight point? It can run a cardboard packing crate (quite a bit stronger than human skin) through with one. Those in-flight magazines are even better.
Crack the LCD screen of your laptop and use one of the shards. Nice large non-conductive blade.
Keys between the knuckles.
2AA Maglight, great fist load.
Your cell phone will do as well.
StupidRules
Removing the pilots access to the plane makes it impossible for them to open the door for any reason be it that someone is cutting the throat of the flight attendent he/she is banging or any thing else that might make them open the door.
And about the money… I guess you could have rebuilt a lot of airplanes and also secured the ports and the chemical plants by not spending all the money on that thing in Iraq….
And even more about money… Airport screeners could be argued to be well paid if you see to what they do, they are not if you see to what happens if they fail to do their job properly. Airport screeners are the one who has the lowest wages at airports and the turnover rates shows it.
StupidityRules
Removing the pilots access to the plane makes it impossible for them to open the door for any reason be it that someone is cutting the throat of the flight attendent he/she is banging or any thing else that might make them open the door.
And about the money… I guess you could have rebuilt a lot of airplanes and also secured the ports and the chemical plants by not spending all the money on that thing in Iraq….
And even more about money… Airport screeners could be argued to be well paid if you see to what they do, they are not if you see to what happens if they fail to do their job properly. Airport screeners are the one who has the lowest wages at airports and the turnover rates shows it.
Zach
Don already pointed to Schneier, but he had an editorial in the Sydney Morning Herald recently regarding this premise.
His blog is a good read for security related matters.