This presents an interesting problem:
The Iraqi Interior Ministry insisted Monday that none of the 625 prisoners discovered last week in an Iraqi detention center had been tortured or abused, despite assertions by American officials to the contrary.
The declaration by the ministry official was delivered as early voting began in Iraq’s election for a full, four-year parliament, as soldiers, hospital patients and prison detainees across the country cast their ballots in advance of the rest of the electorate, which goes to the polls on Thursday.
The estimated 1.5 million Iraqi voters living abraod were also permitted to cast ballots at about 50 polling stations outside the country on Monday.
Maybe it was just a harmless fraternity prank?
TallDave
From the pictures I’ve seen, it’s apparent their treatment was deplorable. But we shouldn’t be shocked 3 years wasn’t long enough to erase every lingering vestige of a brutal police-state culture. That will take some time.
Of course, this kind of thing does happen to some degree pretty much everywhere, even here in the U.S. (Remember Abner Louima?) The important thing is that it be exposed, investigated, punished, and prevented to the extent possible.
As opposed to the Saddam-era solution, which was to give torturers a pat on the back and tell them “nice work, we’ll have some more dissidents for you to maim tomorrow.”
Cyrus
Some would call this gratuitious Bush-bashing, and who knows, they might even be right, but let’s just say that the Iraqi Interior Ministry’s position has a precedent.
If none of those 625 prisoners died or got permanently crippled, then it’s not torture, was the legal position of the Bush administration for a while.
Richard Bottoms
Now, now. Calling Bush a liar or a misleader is irresponsible. He doesn’t actually “know” of any torture.
Richard Bottoms
BTW, is anyone ever going to straight out ask the smirking one if waterborading is torture?
Perry Como
When did it change? I was under the assumption this is still the administration position.
Paddy O'Shea
Funny how that torture stuff just keeps popping up, ain’t it? Almost like there is the theme to what is going on Iraq.
And speaking of torture, it looks like Georgie’s Operation Enduring Bullshit isn’t cutting it with the citizens. 59% disapprove of his mishandling of Iraq, 58% think he doesn’t doesn’t know what he is doing.
The last time Prince George went around making these kinds of speeches he was yapping about Social Security. That didn’t work out for him, either.
edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/12/bush.iraq.poll/
TallDave
Torture does seem to be the theme for leftists.
Freedom and democracy seem to be the theme for righties.
All depends on what’s important to you, I guess.
Steve S
It takes 10 times that long! Here it’s been 229 years since we through off our imperial overseers and we still have Asshats running around thinking torture is a perfectly acceptable thing to do with prisoners.
Although the odd thing is. I was reading some history, and just the other day was the anniversary of General Orders 100 issued by Abe Lincoln back in the Civil War days. General Orders 100 became the foundation of the Geneva Conventions of 1867.
au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/law/liebercode.htm
So apparently we were making some real progress here, it’s just in the last few years we started to regress.
Retief
Thesis & Antithesis. Now I give Synthesis: The free and democratic government in Iraq toturing prisoners.
(And extra-judicial killings, but that’s why we sent Negroponte in the first place, wasn’t it?)
Lines
We’re going to torture you until you are free and liberated!
I like it, Talldave. What next, waterboarding as a sport?
Is there anything you won’t excuse? IOKYAR
Steve S
Freedom pretty much implies respect for human rights.
So apparently neither are important to you.
Mike S
I’d like to be the first person to welcome John Cole to the Order of the Leftists.
TallDave
Hehe, I knew that would get you guys riled up.
Just remember, when our troops aren’t torturing, they’re using WMDs against civilians!
Something to keep in mind while Iraqis exercise their right to vote in the first full-fledged Arab democracy thanks to Chimpy McHitlerBurton’s disastrous, simpleminded, incompetent, corrupt mismanagement.
Steve S
Apparently TallDave is a fan of Saddam Hussein, because torture, execution and all that stuff is just no big deal.
Cyrus
You know, it’s easy to laugh at us, but you haven’t actually explained why we’re wrong.
Of course, that very first sentence implies you don’t really care if you’re right or not, you’re just saying that stuff to make waves. There’s a word for people like that, but “troll” is generally considered an insult in online fora.
Mike S
Davey’s just looking for advancement in the cult of the New GOP. Nothing matters more than the defence of the cult and it’s leader.
The Comish (sic)
Yes, it is easy to laugh at you.
And you haven’t explained why you’re right.
Andrew J. Lazarus
Quiz: Which one of these exists on the ground? Which is a chimera? Which is the Reality-Based Community?
Mike S
I just look on you with pity the same way I look at other Special Olympic contenders.
The Comish (sic)
It’s bad enough that you folks can’t seem to talk about issues without reverting to the Democratic talking points memo, but now you’re dragging out previously debunked claims as if they’re fresh news? Apparently, no amount of debunking will satisfy you people. Do we really need to go through this issue again? Did you really not get it from the first 100 or so times we discussed it?
The Comish (sic)
Are you insinuating that I should be embarrassed because the “differently abled” are somehow inferior? What a jerk! Just because people have fewer arms or legs, or a lower IQ, doesn’t make them worthy of your scorn and mockery.
(Also, extremely lame.)
Mike S
I realise pity is a foreign concept to idiots like you but that is almost sad. I guess the people more deserving of pity than you would be your parents. I’m sure they cant figure out what they did to deserve such an idiot for a son.
rachel
TallDave, I’m surprised at you suggesting at you saying the righties are against freedom and democracy in the same way that lefties are against torture. Despite what so many have said, I don’t believe that. I think the righties are generally are inept rather than truely evil–except for the righties that favor waterboarding, extrodinary rendition, vote fraud, etc. I’ll grant you that those guys are evil and stupid to boot.
Steve S
There is an interesting argument made by TallDave. One of Goebbel’s propaganda value.
If lefties spent as much time talking about freedom and democracy as they do torture, the argument of the opposition would fall flat on it’s face. And the thing is, the two values are not in opposition to one another.
You cannot be for freedom and democracy if you value torture. So it’s the people like TallDave who have distorted values.