I have been meaning to ask you guys this for a while and keep forgetting- do any of you read George R. R. Martin, and is itworth a read?
If so, I understand this is an elaborate, complex series. What is the first book (his site makes no sense).
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[…] In Fantasy Filed under: Posts — justin at 6:15 pm on Friday, December 16, 2005 In response to a post on “A Song of Ice and Fire” somewhere else: Steve S Says: Is it a scam like that Robert Jordan series I bought into 15 years ago and he still hasn’t finished yet? […]
Pb
Never heard of him before, and check the wikipedia entry for info–sounds cool! I’ve just finished reading The Dresden Files by Jim Butcher–good ol’ fashioned hard-boiled detective wizardry.
over it
Yes, I have read the Song of Fire and Ice series. Yes, I would recommend it. The first book is A Game of Thrones. Followed by A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, and A Feast For Crows (in that order). Though they are more complex than…say…Terry Goodkind’s Sword of Truth series, they are easier to follow than Neal Stephenson’s Baroque Cycle.
I have used A Game of Thrones as a gift for several friends. I like gifting the first book of a series…that way, if they like it, I can use the other books in the series as future gifts. ;)
So read them!
Enjoy!
over it
Oh yeah…for what it is worth, the series is supposedly based on the War of the Roses. This did not mean much to me (I only vaguely remember it being mentioned in class), but perhaps it might be of interest to you. ;)
r4d20
The first book is “A Game of thrones”
I’ve read tons of fantasy and this is the best series I’ve ever read – and the least stereotypical.
DecidedFenceSitter
It began as War of the Roses turned fantasy, it has morphed into something else. The series is damn good, I’ve been reading fantasy/sci-fi for a long time now, and this series is the first one that has actually made me wonder what is going to happen to next, for the sheer simple fact that no one has plot immunity.
Edmund Dantes
Yes. Very good series. Taking me a little while to get into the “Feast For Crows” because I hadn’t re-read the other ones before it came out. So it was a little difficult at first remembering all the machinations, factions, etc that were going on.
Definitely worth the read.
Ozymandius
Umm, yes. I enjoy it very much. Definately not for everyone, as I’ve found it’s something you either love or hate. Though I have to admit the whole “shades of gray” thing can get to me sometimes.
Give Game of Thrones a shot. In my opinion it is worth your time.
DecidedFenceSitter
And, btw, my god that is a bad website.
Steve S
Is it a scam like that Robert Jordan series I bought into 15 years ago and he still hasn’t finished yet?
rilkefan
Note that this is an immensely long incredibly complex hidden-clue-filled _unfinished_ series. Still possible for it to explode into awfulness or to prove impossible to sustain. Still, except for some unevenness and a certain degree of frustrating authorial manipulation (several times I’ve had to put a book down in high emotion at an occurrence and at having been set up), the series is great so far.
DecidedFenceSitter
It is possible that this could be a never-ending series. I don’t think so for reasons that are spoilerish; however, that being said, it did start out as three book series, then a four book series, and then book four got split into two different books; and is now looking at a 7-book series.
So yes, the possibilities are there; but he doesn’t have nearly as many threads in the air as Jordan does.
fwiffo
Yes, you must read it, it’s fucking good. Not for the feint of heart though, it’s quite graphic, dense, and long. I’m re-reading the first three books because he took his sweet time getting the fourth one out. It’s even better on the second read.
John
Yes, it’s one of the best fantasy series I’ve read. As DecidedFenceSitter said, you never know what is going to happen next, and some of the double crosses and killings really come as a great surprise.
Cyrus
Yeah, I’m liking it. I bought the new book more than a week ago and I haven’t started it yet – but that’s just because I’ve had what is by my standards very little free time, and it’s a weighty thing in more ways than one. The first three were great.
As for peoples’ worries about it becoming interminable, I’d say the body count rules it out. I forget, how many major characters have died so far? Easily a dozen, I’ll bet. Even though one or two have come back – uh oh…
There’s just one book left, he swears!
ckrisz
Yes, definitely buy and read A GAME OF THRONES.
I wouldn’t go so far as to call it “realistic”, but Martin conjures up a brutal, tough-minded, and gritty series that feels very textured and real compared to most fantasy out there. Certainly the descriptions of medieval war (except for very unrealistic scenes involving a certain dwarf character) ring very true with what I’ve read, especially its effect on the civilian population, and I’m a big medieval military buff. The characters suck you in and Martin will hit you over and over with the fact that no one in his world is safe from harm.
Now one criticism is that his world has gotten out of control — the wait for his last novel just released was 3 years or so. But it’s more than worth it just to get thru A STORM OF SWORDS. Really great stuff.
RSA
I find the series fine, and interesting, though if I were a fan of fantasy, historical fiction, or military fiction, I probably would be appreciating it more. Worth a read, even just as an adventure story. The most recent book, Feast of Crows, was a bit disappointing in that it didn’t tell me enough about some of the characters I was most interested in.
Ozymandius
Yeah, haven’t touched the latest one yet, but all the characters that are really interesting are sitting in the wings in this book. They’ll be featured in the next one. So Feast is a bit of a place holder for me, so I’m in no rush to read it. I will, maybe soon, maybe wait for it to come out in paperback. But #5? I’m buying that one as soon as it comes out.
slickdpdx
Spouse thinks its about the best series ever. I haven’t tried it.
Pooh
Yes. The first three are pantheon-level good. I’ve just started the fourth so can’t comment (the reviews have been mixed, but I think a lot of that stems from the long layoff between books 3 and 4.)
As a commenter mentioned earlier, GRRM’s willingness to kill off major POV characters makes Jordan-style sprawl less likely.
Sebastian Holsclaw
It is really good, but it is unfinished with cliffhangers. If you want a really good fantasy series try Steven Erikson’s Malazan Empire series–first book Gardens of the Moon. Each book so far is mostly self-contained. Characters appear later, but the books have actual endings so the fact that it is unfinished isn’t as annoying.
Anderson
I’ve read them all, they’re a lot of fun. Not high literature by any means; not classics like Tolkien; but very entertaining. Martin’s plots are enviable, and his characterization’s not half bad either.
I did feel as though the series was getting away from him in the latest book, but by now we’re at the point where one just HAS to find out What Happens Next.
Just make sure that when you’ve finished a given volume, you have the next one at hand.
Thomas More
Martin wrote one of my favorite sci fi stories of all time, “Sandkings.” I would recommend checking that out. I remember reading it originally in Omni Magazine back in the day.
Vlad
They’re not heavyweight reads, but his Game of Thrones novels are fun. Martin deserves props for keeping so many balls in the air without getting things mixed up or bogged down, and also for being willing to kill major characters unexpectedly and leave them dead. There’s a very good sense of him knowing where he’s going in terms of plotting and pace, and that’s often missing among lesser fantasy writers.
I second the recommendation for Sandkings; I read and loved it way back in the day. IIRC, it took both the Hugo and the Nebula for its year.
Also, if you enjoy fantasy novels, you really owe it to yourself to check out Jack Vance’s old “Dying Earth” books about Cugel the Clever. True classics, tremendously influential within the genre, and sadly forgotten nowadays.
Jordan had me for a while, and then he lost me.
wufnik
Actually, for something completely different, try Fevre Dream, Martin’s vampire novel, set in the south.
Peter ve
Meghan recently posted a short mash note at http://janegalt.net/cgi-bin/MT/mt-tb.cgi/4967 (Asymetrical Information). She likes him, and she’s inspired me to search him out. I love to read about the Wars of the Roses.
Jackmormon
It’s a good fantasy series, and I usually hate and avoid fantasy series. I think Rilkefan convinced me to read them over at ObWi (damn you, Rilkefan!). Why, oh why, can’t fantasy writers manage more often to build a suggestive world in a single volume?
It’s several steps up from Jordan (who sucks), at least a couple steps down from Tolkien. It’s much more focused on its world’s political arena than either of the other two: magic and myth are elements of the civil wars, but the prize will go to the most savvy politician/strongest faction, rather than to the most powerful magician or mythologically ordained ruler, I think.
I’m worried about how the series will move forward: characters die off, yes, but more keep getting moved up into importance and introduced, and the narrative is covering shorter and shorter spans of time per volume.
That said, I want to know how the geopolitics get sorted; so far, I’m not really sure what side I want to win in the end, and that’s a pretty good sign that the series is morally complex.
Kirk Spencer
I have liked the books in the series a lot so far, but I’m hesitant to recommend them. Basically because not only is it unfinished, I’m no longer certain it will be finished. There are two reasons. First, it seems to be getting longer. Second, the books seem to take longer and longer to finish.
Originally planned to be a six book (not three, at least not according to what he said way back when the first came out) series, it’s now going to be at least seven. That’s because the fourth book got, well, it got split into two books. “A Feast for Crows” came out just this year, while “A Dance with Dragons” keeps ticking later and later (went from the end of this year – now – to late next year). Some comments GRRM has made could mean that the now sixth book might turn out to be books six and seven, leaving the current number seven to be whatever it winds up being.
Then there’s time. The first book was released in 1996. The second came out in 1999, and spoiling us all the third came out in 2000. Then came the hiatus. Feast for Crows came out, as mentioned, in July of 2005. That was due to a decision to cope with a nasty length. The decision was to take all the parts of half the characters to form one book, and put the rest in another, both coming in at a bit over a thousand pages. As said, while Feast of Crows did come out a few months after that decision, the other half – allegedly almost complete – is now looking at another year as its tweaked and completed. If the other two (four?) books take as long, we’re looking at another decade or more to complete.
I liked the read for reasons mentioned by previous posters. I hesitate to recommend incomplete series, however, especially when I’m afraid they’ll not be completed.
Bane
try Fevre Dream, Martin’s vampire novel, set in the south.
wufnik is absolutely correct. I partied with GRR a few times. He’s a quiet maniac. I like his earliest stuff, best.
Douglas
Ever heard the term about movies “willing to kill the dog?”
In the series “song of ice and fire” he’s willing to breed the dog, then kill the puppies. It isn’t exactly hard to follow, it’s hard to swallow (spelling) because fantasy is all too often touchy feely. George R. R. Martin has serious balls in the way he tells a story. I will be honest though, I think the first book (in paperback) is something like 650 pages, and it will take at least 84 pages (thats when he kills the first pup) to realize that it is a serious story. There are a lot of “controversial” topics addressed, and a lot of bold plot moves. Not to be specific, but by the time you get to book three, the complex character development in book one will have become moot.
I LOVE the series. It is romantic, practical, militaristic, diplomatic, damning, redemptive, brutal, heart-warming, painful, joyous, dark and under it all, you get the sense that in the end, it’s worth something.
Another thing about this series of books. A lot of people who talk it down do so because they see it as just one more fantasy about war, but in the background there is an insinuation of a shark that is about to bite. “A Feast for Crows” is only book 4, in an undefined series, I guess at least 6 books, but I’ve seen conjecture of 8 + (I hope not) books in the series. I mention this because it is obvious that what has happened in the first 3 (haven’t finished the fourth) books follows the “spielberg rule” which is “you don’t see the shark for the first hour of a 90 minute movie”
Sorry. I get verbose sometimes.
Douglas
Vlad Says “Jordan had me for a while, and then he lost me.”
That ain’t no joke. The last book was his first step towards redemption but I’m still disgusted at his inability to allow female characters to grow in the plot, supposedly the next one is the last, don’t see it.
Douglas
Kirk You say ” liked the read for reasons mentioned by previous posters. I hesitate to recommend incomplete series, however, especially when I’m afraid they’ll not be completed.”
I feel exactly the same way, but I can’t avoid the addiction of this sort of soap opera. I mean, okay, in 1996 was the first book. . . . .what about “The Gunslinger?” Trust me, I’m not defending king and his hackery or his inability to create a realistic archetype.
Just saying, I am, and a lot of people are the types to say “I read one, I got read the rest” Aspirin made a career out of that. So did Jordan.
Douglas
DOH! Not Aspirin. . .um. . . Jeez I can’t believe I forgot. . .The “incarnations of immortality” guy, the “Xanth” guy (dodge Xanth, MAYBE the first three, but read it as a trilogy) and the author of “omnivore” “orn” and “ox” THAT guy, I can’t believe I forgot his name. . . .starts with a P, I think.
Dulcie
Piers Anthony, Douglas :-)
Vlad
It’s a shame about Anthony. The first few Xanth books were fun, and “Getting Through University” is a decent story. After a while, though, he just started punching the clock.
Vlad
Also, because I’m pretty much obligated to plug the guy’s work: if you’re ever in a used bookstore and you see something by R.A. Lafferty, buy it, especially if it’s a short story collection. You’ll thank me later; when they made that guy, they broke the mold.
Douglas
Any book, even the bad ones, are a gift. If you don’t grow within yourself through the reading, then you can identify the things that make you less :)
Pb
I think Piers Anthony’s best (and likely oddest) book is probably Macroscope. The Incarnations of Immortality series is ok too. Well, maybe half of it.
6PointsOut
Shalom –
regarding Piers Anthony, I highly recommend Thousandstar. Not one of his more prominent works, to be sure, but a real delight in its imaginings of inter-species understanding of behavior and its well-implemented strategy/puzzle aspects. Also wryly funny in several places, in Anthony style without the cloying silliness he sometimes pens.
but the Martin. . .an amazingly well-wrought story. Certainly most appealing to “reading” types, as the tale is very long and very complex. That said, I finished it (well, through Feast, the most recent available) and reread it immediately, enjoying it even more the second time through.
Kol Tuv
6PO