When I read this, I flashed back to my teens when this first hit my radar:
An immigration judge on Wednesday ordered John Demjanjuk, a retired autoworker accused of being a Nazi concentration camp guard, deported to his native Ukraine, but the 30-year legal battle still may not be over.
Mr. Demjanjuk, 85, has been fighting to stay in this country since the 1970’s.
The United States first tried to deport him in 1977. Mistakenly suspected of being a guard known as Ivan the Terrible at the Treblinka concentration camp, he was extradited to Israel, where he was sentenced to be hanged.
But the Israeli Supreme Court determined that Ivan had been someone else.
Mr. Demjanjuk lost his United States citizenship in 2002 after a judge ruled that documents from World War II proved he was a Nazi guard at various death or forced labor camps.
Have any of you followed this case and have an idea whether or not he really is who he is accused of being? I would have thought the ruling by the Israeli Supreme Court would have ended things, but apparently it has not.
Barry
This is from memory, so trust it how you will. IRRC, this guy claimed to have never been a guard at a concentration camp, but was extradited to Israel. One of the frequent conditions of such extraditions is that the extradited person can only be tried on that specific charge. This prevents (hopefully) somebody being extradited on a criminal charge, and then put on trial for a political offense.
Once in Israel, Demjanjuk admiited to being a concentration camp guard, but at *another camp*. Witnesses suddenly came forward to testify for this. Under the conditions of the extradition, Demjanjuk could only be tried for being a guard at the camp(s) alleged in the extradition. That meant that he was home free, except for the fact that no country wanted him.
Steve
I find it bizarre. Apparently, after the Israeli Supreme Court determined that he was not, in fact, the guard known as “Ivan the Terrible,” our enlightened immigration authorities decided that he was actually a DIFFERENT concentration camp guard than the one they had insisted he was for years.
It’s reminiscent of the way “dirty bomber” Jose Padilla now stands accused of crimes that have nothing whatsoever to do with a dirty bomb. I don’t want bad guys to get away, but it’s hard to trust the government’s accusations against someone when they were apparently so off-base with respect to their initial claims.
Few people deserve punishment more than the Nazis and their minions, but I am personally satisfied to let the government of Israel set the bar.
Bernard Yomtov
Steve,
I think Barry’s account is more or less accurate. The Israeli court never ruled that Demjanjuk was not a concentration camp guard, merely that he was not the extremely vicious “Ivan the Terrible,” and hence could not be held on that specific charge.
There was considerable evidence, including ID’s and the like, that he was in fact a concentration camp guard and lied on his application to immigrate to the US. His deportation is no injustice.
tom yerian
Where theres smoke theres fire. Why didn;t he get on stand and defend himself: whats he got to hide. Why didn’t he take a lie detector test? Atleast that will show a result one way or the other. The nazi has got to go, cut and dried.Thank You…Tom
Vlad
He could still foil the wheels of justice by dying.
tom yerian
What is, “your comment is awaiting moderation”? Am I being censord or something? Or, I hope just procedure. Freedom of speech guys?
Steve
Help me out here. Has Israel requested his extradition a second time in connection with his admission that he was a guard somewhere else? If not, why not?
ats
It is pretty simple.
Israel has run out of juicy targets to prosecute, so the Wiesenthal Center etc. are chasing down low level guys. One look at this guy tells me he was a nobody, if he was anything at all.
The problem is that, while it is perfectly okay to go after people who cowardly ascede to prisoner mistreatment, it opens doors to a path some Israelis may themselves be compelled to walk. Ditto for the poor dumb shlubs working at Abu Ghraib.
You cannot at once say the Holocaust was utterly uniqe (a la Wiesel) and mundane ( a la Wiesenthal going after ex-janitors and flunkies).
I mean, do you REALLY believe Israel would have turned a significant Nazi loose! This is just a case of Ryan’s old department trying to justify its existence.
BTW, whatever happened to double jeopardy?
John Cole
Tom- All comments from new commenters immediately go into moderation until I approve it. Afgter approved the first time, you are good to go.
And look up censorship. This ain’t it.
tom yerian
Ats, one look at Jeffery Dalmer; who would think of him as anything but a normal looking person. The fact that he was complicit in the evils of the nazis regimene, makes it nesessary that he meets a deserved fate. Just because he is an insignificant looking little man, does not allow us to feel pity for an animal who elt no pity. Remember Karma, it is a just turn around for him. Do not interfere in KARMA!!…Tom
gswift
WTF? He’s 85. Do Nazis have a special tint to their aura or something?
Boardjones
And, BTW, whatever happened to showing a little common sense. The guy is 85 years old. The US gov’t has been trying to deport this guy for over 30 years. The Israeli Supreme Court turned him loose on the original charge. What more does anyone want? I know some may not think I am qualified to say this, but isn’t it time to just move on and let this guy be?
tom yerian
How many 85 year olds did he help kill, how many babies, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, etc,etc, etc,. He deserves to answer for it, no matter how old he is! That is the way of justice, karma wanted him,now he should be tried, convicted, and hanged!Then his earthly debt is paid. Then on he goes to the unknown for further judgement.Get the scum bag out of this country, we have enough home grown, and imported scum as it is!!!…Tom
Boardjones
How long does it take to determine “How many 85 year olds did he help kill, how many babies, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, etc,etc, etc,.” If authorities in two countries can’t make a case in over 30 years, does that mean “He deserves to answer for it” Answer for what??
You seem to be saying that the rule of law does not apply in this case. You must be one of those “new” republicans.
ats
“Just because he is an insignificant looking little man, does not allow us to feel pity for an animal who felt no pity.”
From what I have read, we don’t even know what he DID, much less what he FELT.
Ryan and his Justice swat team have so much on the line over so many years that they can’t admit they don’t have the goods on the guy. I mean, Israeli courts are not known for letting Nazis go free. Use your head.
There are bait-and-switch parallels to the Padilla case here that invite consideration, but at least we know Padilla had evil intentions and was more than a janitor.
rainyday
How timely this comes up. Apparently two days ago a new ruling was decided by US Immigration Judge Michael Creppy:
“On December 28, 2005, an immigration judge ordered Demjanjuk deported to the Ukraine. “Having marked Mr. Demjanjuk with blood scent, the government wants to drop him into a shark tank,” his lawyer, John Broadley, said during the hearing. Chief U.S. Immigration Judge Michael Creppy ruled that there is no evidence to substantiate Demjanjuk’s claim that he would be mistreated if deported. He may appeal this ruling to the Board of Immigration Appeals within 30 days.
Retrieved from “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Demjanjuk”
The ruling that he entered the US under false pretenses has not been overturned. The Israeli Supreme Court and the US Federal Courts systems have had ample opportunities to sort out his history and credentials. Both court systems have determined the same thing.
While I have sympathy for an old man being sent away from his home of decades, I also acknowledge that our laws are basic infrastructure for our society. We can’t ignore someone’s enthusiastic participation in genocide – even if it was sixty years ago.
rainyday
Sorry. Was asleep at the wheel and read John’s link after all was said and done. Long week. I promise to be more alert in the future. Stand by the overall opinion, though.
casperado
There’s no proof of what the guy has done. People should start punishing some other criminals who participated in other genocides than hunting 90 year old people of whom noone is sure if he ever did anything. There was Holodomor which Israel doesn’t want to aknowledge as genocide (why that? to stay the only untouchable nation?), and for which noone has ever been punished, there was a genocide in Sudan and Bosnia and many others. I guess in 50 years jews will hunt down the 80 y.o. children of the people who participated in Nazi-Regime. It’s just getting ridiculous.