Heath Ledger attacks my home state for no reason:
Personally, I don’t think the movie is [controversial] but I think maybe the Mormons in Utah do. I think it’s hilarious and very immature of a society,” Ledger said in The Herald Sun. “I heard a while ago that West Virginia was going to ban it but that’s a state that was lynching people only 25 years ago so that’s to be expected.”
Why do these jackasses always attack West Virginia? There is, to my knowledge, no move to ban Brokeback Mountain in WV, and WV is generally a pretty gay friendly place and has a relatively open and active gay community. People in WV believe in minding their own damned business.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Why do you hate gays, John?
SoCalJustice
Having a Senator – with lots of stuff named after him now (right?) – who was famously in the Klan doesn’t help.
Mr Furious
I would say the same thing living in Ann Arbor, John, but the rest of the state passed a positively draconian anti-gay measure last fall.
Methinks you might suffer from the same college-town rose colored glasses…
SoCalJustice
Of course, the far-left loves Robert Byrd now. So that one’s tricky.
Jim Allen
Talk to me when “Massachusetts liberal” isn’t a widely accepted insult on from the right.
Johno
John,
I don’t know, but I do know two things:
1) West Virginia is as much a stand-in for “all things barefoot and gomerish” as my native Ohio is a stand-in for “all things square and average” in the national consciousness. Fair or unfair, that’s the reputation.
2) Y’all get no respect down there for splitting from Virginia to the side of right, the sheer beauty of your landscape, the shocking restraint of your politicians (especially when compared with the greedy bigots who run Ohio), or Mountaineer football.
If WVA got a Trader Joe’s, a Whole Foods, and a few more brewpubs, I’d move there in a minute.
Paul L.
You earned it with your Gun Control laws, Michael Dukakis, Ted Kennedy and John Kerry.
Otto Man
You’re right, broad attacks against the culture of a state often reveal the ignorance of the speaker:
Of course, such attacks generally work really well, so they’re probably here to stay.
Steve
Robert Byrd was not “famously in the Klan,” except in the minds of the far right who seem to believe that it is his sole defining characteristic. Even if you limited yourself to the subset of the U.S. population that has heard of Robert Byrd, the vast, vast majority of them would hardly react to his name by saying “oh, that’s the Senator who was in the Klan.”
The Other Steve
I’m always puzzled by this complaint.
You have Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, David Duke and others.
And you think that this is a valid attack against Democrats? You know what. Go pull the log out of your own fucking eye, before worrying about the splinter in your neighbors eye.
This is the kind of rhetoric that drove me from the Republican party.
The Other Steve
Anyway, the interesting thing about Utah cinema banning the movie…
It received publicity.
If they had not banned the movie, it would have received no publicity… and nobody would have gone to see it anyway.
neil
Yeah, SoCalJustice, that’s the ticket.. just explain calmly to John that WV deserves its reputation and it’s all the Democrats’ fault.
I am sure that will persuade him.
jg
If your state is being insulted by Heath Ledger I have to ask, why do you care?
Steve
I always viscerally enjoy when “The Other Steve” posts right after me.
I completely understand where John is coming from, as it outrages me when people take cheap shots at my hometown of Detroit. It’s not there to be the butt of your jokes.
neil
Although as I posted on a previous BBM thread, John, Heath is right — they aren’t showing the film in WV, at least according to the IMDb message boards.
So really, blame the dominant theatre chain in WV. If it’s as awful as the one in Indiana, then I’m not surprised by the decision.
Paul L.
Are Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, and David Duke Republicians that currently serving in the Senate?
HH
Perhaps he should attack the next state that goes through a heart wrenching tragedy while he’s at it. As a youth, I’m sure he made a lot of Oklahoma jokes after McVeigh, etc.
neil
Paul L, they were serving in the Senate (and the House) a _lot_ more recently than Robert Byrd was serving in the Klan.
neil
Oops, my bad, David Duke never served in the House. He came pretty close to the Senate, though.
Otto Man
No, but Trent Lott is. And his 1990s association with the Council of Conservative Citizens — the heir to the Klan’s more respectable segregationist ally, the White Citizens’ Councils — is a perhaps more relevant than Byrd’s one-year, fifty-years-ago association with the Klan.
Paul L.
I want to get this rule straight.
I am not allowed to mention Bill Clinton to defend the administration because he is not longer in office.
But you are allowed to use Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms who are no longer in office to defend Robert Byrd.
Is that a double standard?
neil
I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about with the first rule. Perhaps you have me confused with the voices in your head. But it is certainly a double standard to claim that Byrd’s long-distant membership in the KKK is relevant but Thurmond, Helms and Duke’s not-at-all-distant membership in the Republican Party is not.
ppGaz
That’s DougJ material.
Mr.Ortiz
That commercial shocked me. Do people really hate Volvos? Because they’re foreign? That’s like hating Hello Kitty. But I drink lattes and eat sushi, so what do I know?
Steve
Byrd filibustered the Civil Rights Act in the 1960s. Jesse Helms blocked Clinton’s black judicial nominees in the 1990s. Yet somehow, the former point is relevant and the latter is not, to the Bushbots among us…
Paul L.
I will not defend Trent Lott.
But Byrd did not only associate with the Klan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Byrd
Byrd later joined with other southern Democrats to oppose the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Byrd filibustered the bill for more than 14 hours, saying it abrogated principles of federalism.
Are you willing to forgive the fifty-years-ago sins of Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms?
Paul L.
Link Please?
I would guess Jesse Helms tried to block all of Clinton’s judicial nominees. And the Democrats played the race card?
But you can prove me wrong.
Gratefulcub
On another note, it was the best movie that I have seen in quite a while.
Another Jeff
Uh, Jesse Helms is a kook and hated Clinton. I’m sure he tried to block a lot of Clinton’s white judicial nominees too.
Otto Man
Right. And Byrd was one of the few of those Southern Democrats who stayed in the party and accepted its new embrace of civil rights. The rest followed Strom Thurmond’s lead and bolted the Democratic Party for the GOP. And as younger folks came up the ranks — people like Trent Lott, who’d worked on the staff of a Mississippi Democrat — they entered the GOP as well.
No. Unlike Byrd, who completely renounced his past ties to segregationists and now has a 100% rating from the NAACP, people like Thurmond and Helms clung to those associations to the end of their lives.
And again, current GOP figures like Lott or Gov. Haley Barbour still have no problem with racist groups like the CCC. And apparently, neither does the Republican Party.
ppGaz
If they asked for that forgiveness, yes.
And I think you’re making a mistake on Trent Lott. He strikes me as a guy who can be reconstructed, a guy who learns from past mistakes. And a hell of a lot more effective a Senate Majority Leader than the numbskull you have in there now.
Steve
Clinton tried four times to appoint the first black judge to the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals. Helms blocked all four nominees – Roger Gregory, James Wynn, James Beaty, and Andre Davis. Clinton finally desegregated the court in 2000 when he gave Gregory a recess appointment.
The 4th Circuit had 5 vacancies for much of this period, 2 of which were designated as official “judicial emergencies.” Ironically, once Bush took office, the Republicans had the audacity to criticize Democrats for blocking one of Bush’s nominees to this court in retaliation for the abuses during the Clinton years. “How dare you,” they said, “this vacancy is a judicial emergency!!!”
If you wish to argue that Jesse Helms was not an out-and-out racist and segregationist, please be my guest. I promise not to laugh out loud, although I can’t force others to be as kind.
Ancient Purple
Is that the standard now? 43 people died in a fire in a hotel in the State of X, therefore, you can’t possibly criticize the State for arresting women who breastfeed in public.
Give me a break.
Otto Man
I lived in N.C. in the early 1990s, and remember the Helms approach well. He ran an ad in his 1990 race against Democrat Harvey Gantt (an African American) that played to white fears of affirmative action about as subtly as a kick to the head. This was the famous “white hands” ad, which showed a white man’s hands crumpling up a rejected job application while a voiceover intoned: “You needed that job…but they had to give it to a minority.”
I guess that was a little subtler than when he called the University of North Carolina the “university of Negroes and communists.” But only a little.
Another Jeff
Wow, I didn’t realize i was arguing whether or not Jesse Helms is a racist. I thought i was just pointing out how idiotic your line of argument was, since the only point you made was that he opposed Clinton’s black judges. As i’ve said, I’m sure he opposed a lot of Clinton’s white nominees.
Further, since you made no arguement about blocking QUALIFIED judges, and only mentioned skin color, I guess i can say that Ted Kennedy and roughly 45 other Senators are racist because back in 1991 they tried to stop a black man from sitting on the Supreme Court.
That’s the problem with people like you. You spend so much time accusing people of being racists, you cheapen the term.
Paul L.
Of course you can see into Helm’s heart and soul know he is a bigot.
Helms Won’t Block Black Judge
Your story is missing that proof that Helms is a racist because Clinton appointed a white guy and Helms did not object to him.
Certainly Bill Clinton is smart enough to “out” Helms as a bigot using that ploy?
Stormy70
Heath Ledger is only on this world for me to look at. I don’t really care to hear from him on anything.
Concerning the movie, if there is an actual demand to see it, and the theater would make a profit on it, then it will show it. This just looks like an Oscar bait chick flick to me.
I asked my liberal, gay bro-in-law what he thought of the movie, would I like it? He said it was a total chick-flick.
My bro thought it was boring, but he dragged me to Deep Blue Sea and loves Grease 2, so we are not talking a high-brow movie-goer here.
I think overall the movie is a hit with most who’ve seen it, and will probably do about 50 million, which is quite a little chunk of change for it’s budget.
I liked Kiss me Guido, which is not a chick-flick.
Steve
I’m sorry, but when a man who is widely acknowledged as a racist blocks multiple attempts to name the first black judge to an important court, it’s hardly jumping to conclusions to say he did it out of racism.
I didn’t realize I was required to jump through all your hoops about citing the numerous other racist things Jesse Helms said and did, calling the nominees well-qualified and all that, before I was permitted to draw the obvious conclusion.
By the way, since you claimed people like me spend so much time accusing people of being racists, I would ask you to point to one other instance where I have accused someone of being a racist. One example will suffice.
Otto Man
no, I’ve been citing his actual words and deeds to prove this, but your skilled rebuttal — sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating la-la-la — is certainly beating that argument back.
Still, worth another try. Lest you think the 1990 campaign was an aberration, here’s the one before it:
Steve
Paul, I think you were in such a hurry to rebut my point via Googling that you didn’t look more closely at the story. The black judge referenced in that story is one of the same four black judges who were blocked by Helms – denied an up or down vote, a right Republicans now deem sacrosanct – for the 4th Circuit throughout the Clinton years. After Clinton gave one of those judges a recess appointment in 2000, Helms finally relented and said he wouldn’t block him from being considered for a lifetime appointment. But that hardly nullifies the fact that Helms blocked him in the first place, nor that he blocked every other black nominee to that court.
Again, I ask: Are you seriously questioning whether Jesse Helms was a racist, or are you just playing pedantic games with this particular argument?
Paul L.
I am questioning whether Jesse Helms is dumb enough to be put in a situtation proving him a racist and Clinton not appointing a white guy instead and “outting” Helms as a bigot?
Who was the white nominee?
Steve
Huh?
Gratefulcub
Stormy,
I guess it is a chick flick since it is a love story. But, Brokeback Mountain can’t be described as simply a chick flick.
Ledger and Gyllenhall were perfect. The story wasn’t always tight, but it was a movie about characters and themes, not plot. It was a great representation of the wasted decades and lives so many people have lived due to the repressive homophobic culture we live/have lived in. But, it isn’t the least bit preachy, and that is what makes it so effective.
Vlad
“…it outrages me when people take cheap shots at my hometown of Detroit.”
At least it breaks the monotony between riots.
Mr.Ortiz
Not to gang up on Paul, but if Helms NOT blocking a black judge is news, that should tell you something about the guy.
Anderson
What we need is some word that connotes maleness and rhymes with “chick.”
I can’t think of one.
As for WV, hey, I’m from Mississippi. Just today Kevin Drum was complaining that if you go 100 miles inland in California, “you might as well be in Mississippi.” And not in a good way, whatever that would be. C’est la vie.
(Oh, and we don’t have the gay cowboy movie either. Maybe it opened & closed real quick? We didn’t get Capote for that matter, & I doubt it was the gayness. We just don’t get quasi-intelligent movies.)
Cyrus
Um, maybe the rule is, duh, tell the truth? Maybe there’s some problem that reactionaries have blamed on Clinton during Bush’s time in office that was (a) true and (b) mainly his fault or more his fault than Bush’s, but I can’t remember any. Vandalism in the 2001 transition, for example? Exagerrated, details fabricated, and well within what you’d expect of a transition in a 500-person office. Failing to get bin Laden? Well yeah, Clinton failed, but I don’t think anyone argues that he put less effort into it than Bush did before 9/11. And so on.
By contrast, Strom Thurmond, Jesse Helms, Trent Lott and others got elected and kept on getting re-elected, despite and in some cases because of their racism. And the closest parallel that the right wing can find to them among Democrats is a guy who recently has had a 100% rating from the NAACP.
So, no, it doesn’t look like a double standard to me. Most of the defenses of Bush based on Clinton have been false and/or irrelevant, but when judging Byrd, it does seem fair to compare him to other successful Senators of his generation and background who stayed in office until today or very recently.
SoCalJustice
Steve writes:
Um, yes he was.
From what I’m guessing you must consider the “far-right” Washington Post:
A Senator’s Shame: Byrd, in His New Book, Again Confronts Early Ties to KKK
Writing a book about it, and having it covered on page A1 of one of the country’s most influential newspapers, is pretty “famous.”
Not Lindsay Lohan or Olsen Twin famous, sure. And I didn’t say anything about that being his sole defining characteristic. I said that it doesn’t help with West Virginia’s image, just like Trent Lott chatting up the CCC every chance he gets doesn’t help Mississippi’s image.
I’m sure you don’t think that’s a big deal either.
Steve
How many Americans, when asked for their opinion on West Virginia, would say “oh, that’s the state with the Senator who used to be in the KKK?”
Of course it doesn’t HELP the state’s image, but no one is making that argument. I’d say the impact on the state’s image is pretty negligible. And I hardly think it’s the racist vote which has returned Byrd to the Senate time and time again in recent years.
The Other Steve
It’s interesting. Paul L. would have us all believe that Robert Byrd is a bigot.
But he’s going to defend to his death Jesse Helms right to be a bigot.
Right. Is your head spinning yet? Listen to Paul L. a little bit more, and you too will want to be addicted to Oxycontin.
nyrev
Apparently this is an ad written by someone who’s never actually been to Vermont. First, Vermont is one of the most anti-federal government states we’ve got. There’s a small, but vocal, movement in Vermont to become it’s own Republic, and the rest of Vermont thinks this is only a little too extreme.
Second, I’m not sure where this Vermonter as sophisticate thing is coming from, but remember Larry, Darrell and Darrell from Newharts? They were playing stereotypical Vermonters. Obviously, not all Vermonters are backwoods hicks, but outside of Burlington, which is a college town anyway, there is a definite shortage of arthouse theatres, sushi and curry vindaloo. Plenty of ice-fishing, though.
Frankly, most Vermonters were hard-core Republicans right up until the GOP stopped being pro-State’s Rights. And for a small state, they still have a pretty balanced mix of Democratic, Republican and Independent politicians.
And…I’m not sure where I was going with this little rant anymore. But, seriously, I’m sure that there are things that people could slam Howard Dean on that, you know, actually make sense?
SeesThroughIt
Well, I used to help fix ’em, so I have a love/hate relationship with them. I hated that they were constantly falling apart at the seams, but at the same time, said crappiness ensured my paycheck.
Also, being in NC from 1994-1998, I was appalled at just how deep Jesse Helms’ racism was. I mean, I knew he was a racist-ass crusty old white man who was bitter that them durned knee-grows done got the right to vote, but the depths of his hatred of Blacks was truly stunning–as is the fact that he got widespread support among the GOP for his views. I guess in retrospect I shouldn’t have been so shocked, but he pretty much embodied every negative stereotype about the South, and he won elections based on that profile.
The Other Steve
Wingnuts who listen to Rush Limbaugh.
That’s about it. I mean seriously, this argument is just about the lamest moonbat whackadoodle point I’ve ever seen anybody make.
Ok, I take that back. The Vince Foster was murdered theory was pretty batty.
SoCalJustice
Perhaps the same amount that would say that they used to lynch people only 25 years (1981) ago.
The Other Steve
Yeah, but how much of that was Machiavellian? Like Strom Thurmond, who came out and said he didn’t really hate black people, he just thought he could get elected if he said he did.
I get the impression with Helms it was pure unadulterated hate, but I can see Thurmond being like that.
SoCalJustice
Look, Steve, if you want to say that the well-known exploits of Senators never fits into your definition of “famous,” – then that’s fine, but really only semantic.
Almost everyone who is reasonably familiar with the Senate and politics in D.C. knows about Byrd’s history.
And acknowledging that has nothing to do with, and takes nothing away from, the collective sins of Jesse Helms, Strom Thurmond or Trent Lott or David Duke or anyone else.
Clearly the Republican party in the Southern states has more problems with a racist past than the Democrats do – but almost all of those Republicans used to be Democrats. The parties have changed. Notwithstanding, Byrd’s past is well-known and does not help West Virginia’s image.
Stormy70
Here’s one of my favorite Entertainment sites take on Mr. Heath Ledger’s diss of West Virginia.
The Superficial site is the best site evah!
Look, I am sure Brokeback has it’s good qualities, and Jake and Heath are hot, but I have zero interest in seeing it. I had no interest in the Bridges of Madison County, or any movie that seems of that “forbidden Love” angle to it, straight or gay. I don’t even like Romeo and Juliet for Pete’s sake!
Larry
The guy who wrote “Men are from Mars, Women are From Venus” signed to write a sequel, but had to return the advance because he couldn’t think of a word that rhymed with the love planet.
Gratefulcub
Great site!! Man-Butt-Mountain. Penis Party Mountain.
You are right, this movie isn’t for you. Try King Kong.
Faux News
Yawn. Your Troll has become tiresome.
I know DougJ, DougJ is my friend. You, are NO DougJ.
Stormy70
Did you read the rest of the site? It’s all equal oppurtunity snarking about Hollywood celebrities.
I see you are a little invested in this movie, which makes me almost never, ever want to watch it. Some movies are just too IMPORTANT to joke about, in some people’s eyes.
Paul L.
Jesse Helms may be a bigot. But the story about him blocking the appointment does not prove it.
I thought Zoloft/Prozac has the drug of choice for lefties who have their worldview challenged.
Richard Bottoms
Fuck the South.
Gratefulcub
No. I am not invested in the movie, and no movie is too important, in fact, I don’t think any movies are important. My point was that some jokes are too immature and homophobic to make, ie Man Butt Mountain. Jokes about the movie are fine, jokes that ridicule homosexuals tend to make me think the writer is a bigot.
I do think the movie is great. I do wish everyone would see it.
But really, how would my ‘investment’ in a movie persuade you to stay away from it?
Gratefulcub
i wish they had won the war.
Otto Man
Personally, I’m not alarmed by the homophobia, I’m alarmed that “Man Butt Mountain” is somehow supposed to be a joke. I’ve seen five year olds offer wittier stuff.
But this, on the other hand, is damn funny.
SeesThroughIt
True indeed, but you know what’s funny? Modern-day Republicans are furiously trying to rewrite that history, and their massive revision hinges on how these Republicans used to be Democrats. You know, the whole Dixiecrat thing. So Sean Hannity goes on the air and says, “Democrats were the ones who were against civil rights!” Yeah, Democrats like Strom Thurmond, right? The Democratic party wasn’t sufficiently racist, you see, so they became Republicans. That’s the part today’s right-wingers are doing their damndest to bury (even though they only recently got around to apologizing for the “Southern Strategy,” and even then, it’s not because there’s real heartfelt regret, it’s because homophobia has replaced racism as the GOP’s wedge tactic of choice).
It’s really kind of sad. Even sadder, they might very well accomplish their goal. Then they can focus on their other massive historical rewrite: Hitler was a radical leftist! No, really!
The Other Steve: I can’t really say how much of the racism was Machiavellian. I really only had to deal with Helms as I was living in NC at the time, and Helms was quite clearly 100 percent pure racist. And even if it was Machiavellian on other people’s parts, I don’t think that makes it any less disgusting. It’s just disgusting in a different way, ya know?
ppGaz
I agree. No disrespect, and I admire Lincoln and his zeal to hold the country together, but I think we’d be a better country without the South.
But that ship has sailed, we are stuck with each other now.
The Other Steve
What worldview? That you sound like a whacked out moonbat?
Anderson
So you endorse Gratefulcub’s wish that they’d won the war?
Hell, you Yankees were all the civilization we had for a while. The black folks are presumably grateful to be part of the U.S. as well.
ppGaz
Heh. Arizona raised. Hardly “Yankee” territory.
We just happen to think that pretty much everything east of the Rio Grande is a figment of somebody’s imagination ….
Paul L.
I thought it was
Leftwing Kook – Moonbat.
Rightwing Kook – Wingnut.
You are a Moonbat. I am a Wingnut.
This Worldview
Government can solve all problems if you give it enough money and control in your life.
That People need to be managed and can not be allowed the freedom to do what their money/persons what they please.
Republicans/Business evil.
Democrats/Unions/Government organizations under democrats good.
Dissent is good/holy unless you disagree with me. i.e. Hate Speech/Speech code.
Jess
very nice! thanks for sharing.
Stormy70
The funniest jokes about Brokback Mountain have come from gay people, themselves. If you think all jokes are evidence of homophobia, then I think that is sad. All groups poke fun at themselves and others. The joke was ridiculing the movie, not making a political statement, and was in the vein of the rest of the blogs snarkiness.
SeesThroughIt
This seems to be our current government’s overarching philosophy. Well that and that incompetence needs to be rewarded. Oh, and that learning is for sissies. And that it’s better to be stubborn and wrong than to correct yourself. I think that about covers everything.
Krista
Getting back to the original topic (just for shits and giggles), pretty much every state has their stereotypes to overcome. Hell, I don’t even live in the U.S., and I’m familiar with stereotypes about Florida, New York, Alaska, Texas, Louisiana, California, Colorado, Alabama, Georgia, Massachusetts, Maine, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, and Tennessee…and those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. So try not to feel too bad about it, John. There are many who know better.
rachel
Well, he is an Aussie; maybe he has a hard time telling one red state from another.
HH
“now has a 100% rating from the NAACP”
Says a lot about today’s NAACP…
The Other Steve
Nope, as a Libertarian, I get to define moonbat as I want it to… and I declare you a moonbat for mooning over GW Bush.
If you were simply illogical, then you’d be a wingnut.
Maybe you are a wingnut as well as a moonbat.
How you can possibly take an argument about Robert Byrd and claim my worldview involves government solving all your problems? I mean seriously, how can you do that?
I don’t even particularly like Robert Byrd, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to let you go around making moonbatty accusations.
You clearly have no clue who you are arguing with, because you’ve tried to label me with some sort of charicature of what you believe a Democrat to be.
I was a Republican before statists like yourself drove me out. But I’m against most govt regulation because I believe it discourages small business. I’m entirely for the free market, and believe govt should act in a hand’s off manner, which is contrary to the Republican belief that govt ought to protect corporations from competition.(as evidenced by Bush’s wanton desire to tariff foreign imports like wood from Canada, etc.)
No, it’s pretty clear that I’ve upset your little moonbat worldview if that’s what you think of me.
The Other Steve
That says a lot! you know what it says, you just stereotyped Iowa, because you forgot about the state completely!
That’s always been their problem… people either confuse them with Idaho or they forget about ’em completely!
JohnTheLibertarian
Other Steve,
Congratulations for coming to your senses and declaring yourself libertarian, that is to say, refusing to lockstep the party line of the two major parties. But you must concede there is tremendous disagreement among libertarians, as well, particulary in these times of nation building. While I believe you are technically correct as to the term moonbats referring to anyone batting at the moon, and that the term wingnuts refers to anyone at the nutty wing of their party, it appears, since the last presidential election, or perhaps earlier, that a common popular consensus (of politics junkies) has formed in using these terms as specific perjoratives in that wingnut refers to the extreme right and moonbat to the extreme left.
I could be wrong, and often am.
How far will you take this free market philsophical stance? Freedom to traffic drugs? Freedom to engage in prostitution? Does this freedom extend to people under 18?
Or let’s take an interesting pro-environment scenario: if raising consumption taxes on gasoline will drive up its relative cost and help us to develop alternative renewable sources, would you support said tax?
Paul L.
And I can ignore your definition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonbat
Can you point to where in this thread I defended/mooned over GW Bush.
I defended Republicians and asked people to back up the assertions they make.
As for being a Libertarian can you point to someone in the democratic party whose values are anywhere near Libertarian.
I would love to support someone like that.
BTW, Clinton was not Libertarian. He just stuck his finger in the wind and did want polled as popular except for the Assault Weapons Ban.
Paul L.
You mean like the state governments did with cigarette taxes? The money was to go into Health care for smokers and smoking quiting programs. But It is used as a cash cow by the state governments to increase tax revenues.
JohnTheLibertarian
That’s awfully cynical of you. Do you have any proof whatsoever that all the cigarette tax money went into a general slush fund, and that NOTHING was paid out to healthcare and quitting assistance programs?
Your cigarette tax analogy is problematic. I did not say or infer that the tax collected would necessarily go to developing alternatives. That is irrelevant. Rather, by making gas relatively more expensive, you encourage the free market to develop alternatives. We see evidence of this already in response to recent gas price inflation strictly due to free market mechanics. The point of the example is to see how much of a libertarian the Other Steve is. Some times government can lead by providing incentives. A true libertarian would have none of it.
Paul L.
I do not accept that higher gas taxes would help us to develop alternative renewable sources
Europe has higher gas taxes and they are not really leading the charge in providing alternative renewable sources.
Unless you count Nuclear power plants which the environmentialist here oppose.
It is the same logic with taxing smoking and high fat foods.
It is easier to get people to accept a tax if you cloak with saying we want to help people instead of saying we need more money for the governemnt and are raising taxes.
proudwvgal79
This post is concerning the movie brokeback mountain, well first of all must i say that i am from WV. For 26 years. I love that state and always will. Mr. Ledger and all the other stereotypes out there, Don’t judge a book by its cover. You haven’t lived there, and so what if the movie has been banned,(which it hasn’t)Are ya afraid you might loose a dollar? Then talking about religion, so what, some people have different beliefs than others. That isn’t for us to say and it’s personally none of our business, that is between them and God. He’s the one we have to answer to. If they are people who don’t believe in gays then so what! big deal! MOVE ON! and last but not least get over it! whats the big deal?