In an unexpected turn, bin Laden appears ready to negotiate with the west (via Steve Benen):
Al-Jazeera on Thursday aired an audiotape purportedly from Osama bin Laden, who says al-Qaida is making preparations for attacks in the United States but offering a truce “with fair conditions.” […]
The speaker did not give conditions for a truce in the excerpts aired by Al-Jazeera.
“We do not mind offering you a long-term truce with fair conditions that we adhere to,” he said. “We are a nation that God has forbidden to lie and cheat. So both sides can enjoy security and stability under this truce so we can build Iraq and Afghanistan, which have been destroyed in this war.
So al Qaeda wants Iraq and Afghanistan. Not such a big deal, right? If he were a movie fan bin Laden might have referenced another example of negotiating-not-entirely-in-good-faith:
William: I’m not finished. Before we let you leave, your commander must cross that field, present himself before this army, put his head between his legs, and kiss his own arse.
It seems safe to say that he doesn’t expect a call back.
Yeah, we don’t negotiate with terrorists:
UP NEXT: ADOLPH HITLER WANTS TO NEGOTIATE!
“Look, let’s not dwell on the past. I’ll be the first to admit that mistakes were made. But now its time to look to the future, put that all behind me, and try to be the best Reichsführer I can be.”
Or Adolph via Scott McClellan:
“Let’s not play the blame game. You know It is established Reich policy not to get into commenting on ongoing genocides.”
I am perfectly open to negotiating with bin Laden so long as his death is negotiating point #1.
Al-Qaeda is really desperate. It’s clearly not bin Laden on the tape — from the rhetoric, I think it’s Joe “Slide” Albanese.
Also, I thought that Muslims could lie and cheat infidels and it was OK according to the Koran. If not, that Baghdad Bob guy might miss out on his virgins.
OMG, I forgot all about Bagdhad Bob. I loved that guy. “We have surrounded them in their tanks!”
Guess we should have killed him in Tora Bora.
Hmmmm . . . another tape, huh? I feel like such a conspiracy theorist but I really want to know about the provenance of this tape. After all the oddly timed election year homeland security alerts that went nowhere and Ridge’s subsequent careful walk away from them, I hate to say it, but part of me is open to the possibility that this tape is a politically motivated stunt.
Expect the following suggestions from the Dept. of Homeland Security:
– The Terror Alert Level will be raised “Shit in Pants”
– NYC will begin new search procedures in subways and trains, including full cavity searches
– Cheney will be hidden in a secret bunker
– More secret orders will be signed by the President authorizing certain agencies to ignore the law – we won’t find out about it for 3-4 years
– Duct tape and plastic will come back in vogue
– School children will be taught “duck and cover” again
– Small towns in the middle of the country will demand more homeland security dollars from the federal government in order to protect their landmarks and populated areas – namely, WalMarts and Cracker Barrell restaurants.
Wow, they must be really scared if they’re making Osama tapes already. I didn’t expect that at least until the midterm elections got a little closer. I guess the false outrage for the ‘plantation’ story and frenzied blaming of Nagin for Bush’s FEMA has run dry for the moment, and they really don’t want to talk about Abramoff and the Republican efforts for lobbying
Why would Cheney hide? He’s in no danger unless the terrorists come after him with stakes.
God damn, it’s mentally draining having to read about and live under the tender mercies of these dipshits. I ask our more mature commenters (chronologically mature…we know there’s no emotional maturity anywhere here): how the hell do you keep politics from driving you to drink after watching the same idiocies and power-grabs for 40+ years?
yet another jeff
I only speak for myself, Krista…but I was already drinking when I started following politics.
I do find it interesting that it all seems to have started around the same time that “Under God” was added to the Pledge…
The Other Steve
At this point I’m willing to ignore Osama bin Hiden tapes… It’s not clear to me he’s in any position to negotiate.
And on top of that, I’m not covinced they aren’t fakes coming from the Republican Party.
And on top of that, I’m not covinced they aren’t fakes coming from the Republican Party.
The Kool-Aid Donks think that the GOP would hire Dan Rather to fake OBL tapes a whopping 11 months before the next elections? You can tell that’s a Party that has been run by idiots for a few decades.
…and, no, that’s no typo — it is part of my ongoing cunning plan to dupe Donks into thinking that elections are in December 2006. So far, so eeeeeeexcellent.
Well you’re right about one thing–if they hired *Dan Rather* to fake any tapes, then they would be run by idiots. Fortunately, they aren’t listening to you.
Judging from this thread I think that most here would believe that if Bin Laden personally shot their family in front of their own eyes they would believe that he was really Bush in disguise. (I kid, I kid!)
Serious question about those who question the timing as being convenient to Bush politically.
Was there any point in Bush’s rule that a Bin Laden tape could have appeared that could not be correlated to some significant domestic event(s) thus helping Bush politically in various ways? I can’t think of one but then I am a “Troll-baiting clone” so my thoughts might be limited here.
I mean isn’t there always something going on that can be used to question the timing of the tape’s release?
So why are these ‘question-the-timing’ thoughts not called paranoid? And I am not even touching the thoughts that Bush will somehow keep power after 8 years….
Real cunning, if you tell everybody about it. Did you learn your villainy skills from watching old episodes of Scooby-Doo? :)
You do not. Hence, John Cole and the box of wine. And I recommend a strong, hoppy IPA. But that maybe just because we like to drink and it has nothing to do with politics.
And I would’ve gotten away with it, too, if not for these meddling… and so on.
Why did the Terrorism Warning System or whatever the hell it is, go away the day after the 2004 elections, only to be drug out immediately after January 1st of another election year?
You can fool some of the people all of the time or you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.
I think my BMW could fool you, Lines.
Also they stopped hyping up alerts because Dean called them on it.
Because there have been fake bin Laden tapes in the past, and after he already had his funeral (he died in late 2001). At least one of the videos have had a pretty unlikely (chubby) bin Laden too. After that, his staus was indeterminate. Then, he rose from the dead, and made an appearance for the US 2004 Presidential Elections. After that, he died again in 2005 (at least, if you believe Bush administration officials, which I don’t). Now, he’s apparently back again, as I predicted. Next question?
What Bush officials were those? The admin’s official pronouncement was that bin Laden is still alive.
Bob In Pacifica
I was suspicious of past bin Laden appearances as being a political help for Bush, but I knew the Bush Administration was really in trouble when it was leaked that he was going to be among the finalists for American Idol. Clay Aiken, move over.
Well, Michael Leeden mentioned it recently (according to his trusted sources in Iran?). You’re right though that the administration generally avoids such talk, at best when pushed professing ignorance or apathy, as Bush and Rumsfeld (best quote: “he’s either alive and in Afghanistan or somewhere else, or he’s dead”) have in the past.
I am not trying to figure out if fake tapes have been made before (I certainly can buy that) but no one answered my question:
“Was there any point in Bush’s rule that a Bin Laden tape could have appeared that could not be correlated to some significant domestic event(s) thus helping Bush politically in various ways? I can’t think of one…”
Not if they are fake. Not when the terror warning system was put into place, usage rate etc. Just the quoted question. AT what point in time could a tape have come out that partisan’s could not claim it was a sneaky ploy to help Bush?
I can only think of the few months before 9/11.
At least John and Tim always come up with some well-timed cat, beer, sports, or pop culture threads just when the political idiocy threatens to drive me to utter despair (or the bottle of Glen Breton).
Never really understood why people think the Bush admin would fake Bin Laden tapes as I don’t get how it’s supposed to help Bush. Every time we hear from OBL it’s just a reminder that Bush still hasn’t gotten him. Makes the admin look bad more than anything.
Do you guys have the first clue just how clueless you sound every time a bin laden tape is released, you “question the timing”?
My god! The timing could couldn’t have been worse in this case. Just as the NSA leaks came out would have been good. before the Alito hearings good. When Bush’s ratings were so far in the dumper a few months ago, even better.
But when he’s riding approval ratings better than he’s had in almost a year, when the polls also say they approve of the NSA program is at 60%, when he’s about to get a confirmed SCOTUS nominee?
And don’t give me the “this kind of thing takes time” crap – any good black operation would have a tape ready for distribution whenever it needed to be distributed.
This is really no better critical thought than the “bush is wearing a reciever under his suit jacket” meme during the debates last year.
I question your sanity. Really, I do.
I think it’s a ruse to encourage the US to keep chucking just enough lives into treasure into Iraq and Afghanistan to barely not do the job; sort of the disastrous middle ground between ‘give it up altogether’ and ‘go all out.’
>>>I ask our more mature commenters (chronologically mature…we know there’s no emotional maturity anywhere here): how the hell do you keep politics from driving you to drink after watching the same idiocies and power-grabs for 40+ years?
I’m close enough to 40 to count. You act like you give a shit, when in reality, you don’t give a flying $%&# at a rolling donut, because if you look at it from the middle, both parties are roughly equally bad, just in totally different ways. Except for the ways that they are identically bad. Um, the drinking helps. Preferably bourbon, but malts and beer will do.
And as for the tape… Hey, wait a minute! I’ve seen that guy in the tapes and the pictures – he’s a homeless guy who shills for money up on K Street! His name is Ron. He’s actually from Scarsdale. I think he used to work for Jack Abramoff as a ball polisher. He lies about being an Afghan war vet. I think the tape must be a Karl Rove scheme, whereby he employed Howie Dean to actually make the tape and release it via the DNC.
Of course once Agent Dean released the tape, Dem faithful immediately looked at it, “questioned the timing,” presumed it’s a Rove plant to boost Bush’s Unitary Executive Power, and then said it’s a “swift boating of Osama.” The net result is the party faithful, along with Rove Secret Agent Dean appear to all Republicans and many swing voters to be a pack of mentally ill people off their thorazine and staggering around, mouthing phrases that sound like, but aren’t quite, profanities.
That’s right. Rove hasn’t crossed you. He hasn’t double crossed you. He’s triple crossed you. Wheels within wheels, follow the money, where oh where is Jim Garrison when we need him.
And the fact that I’m here making light of it, only goes to prove the conspiracy. Because having some right wing yevitz make fun of the paranoia, and joke about such an obvious scheme, is perfectly consistent with the existence of a massive cover up. And when McLellan denies it during the daily presser tomorrow, well then, it’ll be proved to a moral certainty.
The Other Steve
Interesting point. If it really is Bin Laden, he seems to be playing a good game of Brer Rabbit. He certainly understands Bush, and knows just what to say to push his buttons.
That’s the thing. Either these tapes are fake, or Osama is just about the brightest strategist the arab world has seen since Saladin. If it’s the latter, we’re in more trouble than we realize.
The Other Steve
And Clinton is going to bring the black helicopters down and declare martial law on Y2K.
Can we please have an intelligent discussion here? I mean really…
Why don’t you dig up an old picture of bin Laden and then compare it to whatever recent alleged videos you can find. See if they can at least get the nose or the cheeks right (let alone anything complex) before you embarrass yourself with a lack of facts or knowledge.
Also, as for Bush’s approval ratings… they really haven’t changed much in the past month, and the only thing that seemed to raise them at all was the sudden (and temporary) fall in gas prices over Christmas. Even the short bout of fearmongering over Iran didn’t do the trick, but they’ll see if this latest batch does any better.
Oh, and moflicky, as for the ““bush is wearing a reciever under his suit jacket” meme during the debates last year.”–did you even watch the debates? It was there for all to see, in all three debates. They were so scared, they mentioned aliens, denied that the bulge was a bulletproof vest (it didn’t really look like one to me, anyhow), blamed his tailor–and then publicly embarrassed the guy, and had him take the blame–and then, after a real expert concluded the obvious–that there was a bulge there, and not a ‘pucker’ in the suit–they said that it *was* a bullet proof vest, and that they had just been lying to us before–which apparently comes naturally to them. Apparently you’re either very unobservant, or willingly complicit, much like our media.
Truce? Sure thing. Ya’ know what? We need that in writing though. Tell you what – we’ll have our lawyers draw up the papers. We’ll sign them first, then leave them in that tent over there. You just go in and sign them when you get a chance. Pay no attention to that droning sound in the background.
PredatorsMosquitoes are bad this time of year…
facts and knowledge. two things completely missing from your comment. none of which really deserve comment – except one, to illustrate the obvious:
Let me ask you a question. here we have a man with the resources of the NSA, FBI, CIA, Pentagon and the military industrial complex and he can’t find a reciever small enough to not make a bulge in his coat? Or even one with a wire long enough to fit in his pocket or strapped to his balls instead of right “there for all to see” in the middle of his back? Especially, ALL THREE DEBATES, even after he’d been ‘found out’ and it was the buzz all over tv and the internet.
really, now. simply ignorant.
Of course it was a bullet proof vest, and yes, with nuts like you with this sort of visceral hatred of him out there, I’d wear a vest if I were him too.
As far as lying about it, why should they respond to idiotic notions like that in the first place? In a sane world, you wouldn’t have this stupid question come up in the first place.
Personally, I thought it was a master stroke to let looney leftys like you continue with your kiniptions over the incident right up till the elections. it only served to expose you for the looneys you are.
Rove IS a genious, and you guys give him all the fodder he needs.
The truce is hot air. After 9/11 bin Laden was criticized in the Muslim world for not giving us a warning or chance to change. He offered the same thing to Europe before the bombings there as well. He is just getting his ducks in a row at home before he starts his campaign here.
Yep, you’re still a wingnut. And I was so hopeful when you first signed on here and pretended you wanted an honest discussion of some sort. Anyhow, it’s easy enough for the White House to issue a non-denial denial as opposed to a lie–they just decided to lie to the American people in this case instead. The fact that that doesn’t seem to faze you at all says more than anything else.
Also, it’s ‘conniptions’, ‘genius’, etc. Although lately perhaps ‘genious’ is more appropriate (maybe even “Super Genious”).
From that Onion article:
If Al Qaeda succeds in getting a nuke and detonating it in Washington DC, then which country gets nuked/attacked?
Since Republicans believe that we have liberated all of Afghanistan then it won’t be them.
Iraq has also been liberated so they don’t have to worry about anything.
Pakistan is an ally in the GWOT(tm) and they got some nukes.
Since if you would follow the money you would end up in Saudi Arabia… forget about following the money…
Guessing it leaves one option. Nuke Teheran. Who cares if they had anything to do with it, something must be done…
gosh, you want an honest discussion, and the only rebuttal you have to offer is to call me a wingnut is to critique my spelling?
anal retentive asshole.
anal retentive asshole without a clue or a cogent argument.
Bob In Pacifica
Talking points for Talking wingnuts on TV: bin Laden sounds like John Dean.
Although, actually, if you flip him, bin Laden is exactly like Bush, except that he’s the other side, even down to the references to God on his side.
What does OBL really want?
If he wants to destroy the US as a world power, he’s doing just fine.
He doesn’t even have to do anything more than he’s done.
The Bush Admin, and its followers, are banging a drum to get their war on against Iran. What Bush wants, Bush gets; so we’ll be at war with Iran by 2007 (after Bush uses the build-up to war to ensure GOP victory in 2006).
War with Iran should finish the job of crippling our military – and, possibly, our economy, if Iran makes good its threat to shut down the Strait of Hormuz and cut off oil exports.
It’s really kind of funny how the Usual Gang of Idiots calling for war with Iran either ignore the threat altogether or claim that cutting off oil exports will “only” affect Europe and Asia – mere bagattelles, to be sure.
Maybe the Usual Gang of Idiots hopes that cutting off oil to Asia will cause China’s economy to collapse, thus removing it as a rival for hegemony and somehow canceling out our debt. An interesting fantasy, in that it assumes the Chinese will respond to an oil cut-off by doing… nothing. (Just as the Usual Gang of Idiots seems to believe we can bomb Iran, with no blowback, no unforseen consequences, and certainly no unintended ones.)
OBL doesn’t have to make good on any of his threats. The Bush Admin will continue to degrade America without another terrorist attack, though another terrorist attack will definitely concretize and accelarate the process.
tee hee. ever seen what a carrier battle group can do? on a bad day? against a formidable foe?
let ’em try. Iran is blowing smoke. their navy wouldn’t last a single day against us.
But more to the point, I am dumbfounded that you seem completely at ease with a genuine radical muslim leader with a documented messianic complex, a stated desire and capability to make and use nukes, the rockets to deliver them and the desire to wipe Israel off the map.
oh well, I rest easier at night knowing that at least Kerry or worse, Gore aren’t in charge.
Phoenician in a time of Romans
tee hee. ever seen what a carrier battle group can do?
How much oil can they carry to market?