If it was like my college experience, I would find “something” wrong my professors did just for the sweet moola. Giving up your young healthy plasma only netted $15 in the 80’s, and one weekend at the clubs. Being of the female persuasion meant we did not have to purchase any drinks.
2.
Steve
Cathy Young always sounds so darn reasonable. I think she is right to be amused by David Horowitz’s “fake but accurate” defense (which, obviously, is not copyrighted by the Right). My favorite Horowitz anecdote is the story he pushed about a Colorado student who was given an F for refusing to take some liberal viewpoint on a final exam. When the university responded that the student had not, in fact, received an F, Horowitz’s answer was “Well, I don’t have the time to fact-check every story, but if the student was accustomed to getting A’s, it’s entirely possible that a B or C would have felt like an F to her!”
The problem is the ravenous appetite of the right-wing media for this stuff—eager to represent academia as the “liberal elite”, the Hannitys, Gibsons and O’Reillys will eat this stuff with a shovel. The next thing you know, a perfectly moderate professor will be quoted out of context, thrust unfairly into the spotlight, and turned in to the next Ward Churchill—public enemy #1.
Classrooms are not the “public arena” and professors are not “public figures.” This is wrong.
Now faculty have to worry about being having everything the say used against them? Talk about a chilling effect.
4.
Krista
If it was like my college experience, I would find “something” wrong my professors did just for the sweet moola.
Exactly. And what if a prof is tough? I can think of a few profs in university who I would have been more than happy to sell out for some drinking money. Their politics had nothing to do with it. They were either just incompetent (but with tenure), or jerks.
5.
Lines
Red State University Exam Question:
George W. Bush, being the bestest President Evah, finds himself travelling Eastward on train from Colorado Springs at 70mph. Ted Kennedy, after personally raping and dumping Mary Jo’s corpse, finds himself travelling at 65mph westward from her dump location. At what point would George Bush’s holy aura cause Ted Kennedy to drive off the road and kill a terrorist cell?
6.
docG
If it was like my college experience, I would find “something” wrong my professors did just for the sweet moola. Giving up your young healthy plasma only netted $15 in the 80’s, and one weekend at the clubs. Being of the female persuasion meant we did not have to purchase any drinks.
A willingness to tell damaging lies for money and falsely (an assumption on my part, since you usually post on the side of morality and decency) letting the boys think they have a shot in exchange for a free drink. Next time you feel inclined to take a pot shot at someone’s ethics or behavior, take a deep breath and think of your above post first.
7.
Marcus Wellby
A willingness to tell damaging lies for money and falsely (an assumption on my part, since you usually post on the side of morality and decency) letting the boys think they have a shot in exchange for a free drink. Next time you feel inclined to take a pot shot at someone’s ethics or behavior, take a deep breath and think of your above post first.
Other than the occasional TV show I have not agreed with anything Stormy has ever said here and I don’t think our politics or opinions about most things could be any farther apart. But I assume her post to be pure snark in relation to ratting out teachers. As for the ladies not needing to buy drinks, well, thats just reality.
8.
Steve
Any man who would complain about women getting free drinks clearly fails to understand that the arrangement works to his advantage on many levels.
9.
my cat
My sister is a college professor and she deals al the time with students who are bullies and who use “my rich daddy” or threats of lawsuits to get grades they haven’t earned. Since she teaches in a dental school politics isn’t an issue.
I think we should start a campaign to get rid of all the conservative professors that dominate in the fields of economics and mathematics. Also what about the military? Shouldn’t we require some kind of quota to make sure Democrats get to be officers?
10.
Lines
my cat: why would you want officers that are predisposed to hate the military and America?
11.
neil
The problem is the ravenous appetite of the right-wing media for this stuff…
Indeed, Furious, and this even creeps into right-wing media consumers who aren’t at all behind this particular move. I’m not referring to John’s post which is rather a weak example, but every conservative blog that I’ve seen condemning these jokers has had to throw a few words towards addressing the serious problem of left-wing indoctrinators on campus.
With any luck, in a few years there will be nothing left that’s not named after Ronald Reagan, so these professors will be robbed of their tools of manipulation…
12.
Lines
You know what really bothers me? The fact that Hemingway (Papa) is granted God status in Lit classes. The man was a Conservative, for Christ’s sake!
Besides that, he sucked.
13.
docG
Steve Says:
Any man who would complain about women getting free drinks clearly fails to understand that the arrangement works to his advantage on many levels.
First of all, it was not a complaint, just an illustration of questionable ethical behavior. Secondly, I do fail to understand. Perhaps you could share examples of four or five levels of advantage? Lastly, I would have never pointed out the hypocrisy of the comment if not completely confident that Stormy can handle criticism without Sir Galahads rushing in to protect her. (If you cannot see the parallel between seeing “the advantages of buying women drinks” and men rushing in uninvited to defend a woman’s honor, then a review of male privilege and mysoginistic assumptions are in order.)
14.
Stormy70
Of course my post was snark. But paying $100 for dirt on professors just looks slimey. If someone has a legitimate beef with a professor, then go through the correct channels to address it. If you are in the right, then you can prevail.
15.
Ben
This sort of thing is happening to some extent all over the country. THIS crap is nothing but pure McCarthyistic BS. Isn’t it nice how they are only target “liberal” professors. By and large the most common offenders I had of people pushing their ideological values into a classroom were conservative teachers. I’m not saying that there weren’t some teachers with a liberal bias… but in my experience there’s bias on both sides. And in my case conservatives just happened to be the worst offenders… I’m sure in other places it’s the opposite.
It’s a little frightening… look at George Will’s attack on Schools of Education and Here in PA for example.
It’s the same victim’s mentality that the Intelligent Design people use when attacking “Darwinism.” That somehow by teaching a course or a subject that disagrees with your personal beliefs they are being attacked.
GROW UP. These same people that get offended when little Johnny is being taut that he decended from a lemur, or disput the evidence for global warming, or whatever oither pet right wing politcal theory they espouse might be wrong often are the same one who scoff at “P.C.” policies… I guess the First Amendment only applies to what THEY want to say.
16.
Stormy70
letting the boys think they have a shot in exchange for a free drink.
Is this projection? How do you think I met my husband? ;)
17.
Blue Neponset
The wingnut grade junkies at UCLA just hit the jackpot. They can stick it to the History prof who gave them a B+ and get $100 of beer money at the same time.
18.
DougJ
HIS crap is nothing but pure McCarthyistic BS.
It’s a bit sad to see the way the name McCarthy is dragged through the dirt, almost reflexively, by those who know nothing about what he did or what he stood for. The portrayal of Senator Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren’t cowering in fear during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation’s ability to defend itself while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy’s name.
19.
KC
I think we all can say we’ve had a professor or two that tosses an opinion in the mix when it’s inappropriate. That said, what I fear about this whole thing is that it will lead to a witch hunt. Students who don’t like their grades, or a particular professor, or a subject they are being tought–think about an undergrad biology professor who teaches evolution or an undergrad history professor who teaches ancient history, not bible history–could sweep good people into Horowitz’s net and end their careers. This just seems like a recipe for disaster.
20.
neil
Sigh. I think the magic is gone.
21.
Marcus Wellby
DougJ, you need to change your name — the parady troll just doesn’t work once you’ve been revealed.
22.
Marcus Wellby
If you cannot see the parallel between seeing “the advantages of buying women drinks” and men rushing in uninvited to defend a woman’s honor, then a review of male privilege and mysoginistic assumptions are in order
Good god DocG — if you are going to make statements like that, you could at least spell womyn with the “y”.
Man, that’s a good post. She really captures Horowitz’s tooliness.
24.
Ben
Actually DougJ tell that to whoever created the right wing talking point describing Ted Kennedy and Feinstein during the Alito hearings.
25.
The Other Steve
It’s a bit sad to see the way the name McCarthy is dragged through the dirt, almost reflexively, by those who know nothing about what he did or what he stood for.
Doug! You promised not to queer any threads for the next two weeks. You didn’t even make it a full day!
:-)
26.
DougJ
I know, Marcus, I know. I’m not sure who John feels about my doing that, though.
27.
Zifnab
He added, however, that “everybody who is familiar with universities knows that there is a widespread practice of professors venting about foreign policy even when their classes aren’t about foreign policy” and that the lack of evidence on Penn State doesn’t mean there isn’t a problem.
See you’ve got your known knowns and your known unknowns and then you’ve got your unknown unknowns.
The absense of evidence is not the evidence of absense!
Chilling how the war on your local university has such a habit of echoing the War on WMDs in Iraq.
28.
Stormy70
Really, I think we need an open thread. Who’s watching American Idol. Admit it. My favorite site’s take on it.
29.
DougJ
This thread was already queer. I didn’t queer this thread anymore than Jake Gyllenhall queered Heath Ledger in Brokeback mountain. The thread already had certain, er, tendencies.
30.
Lines
I was just reading some of Hemingway’s titles and I see there is one called “To Kill An Elephant”.
I find this sort of outragious threat towards our elected officials to be eggregious and serious. Can someone please dig up his corpse and haul it down to Gitmo for questioning?
31.
demimondian
I’m with Stormy here, we need an open thread.
[uhhh…wait….DougJ, aren’t I supposed to add snark after that? Pat R? mycat? BlogReeder? Somebody?]
32.
The Other Steve
True story…
Back when I was in college 1990 or so, there was this guy who went into a tirade because a white professor was teaching a class on African culture. He accused her of all sorts of biases, etc. and just made her life unbearable in class. It made it into the newspapers for a week or more, and he got lot’s of press.
Six months later… I think the University had actually kicked him out because he failed all his classes, or something. He’s in the news again.
He’d gotten a job at the local bank, and got access to the Cashier Check making machine and printed him up some checks. Well this guy wasn’t a Leonardo DiCaprio by any means. He tried to go into a Porsche dealership and buy a 911 Cabriolet using three or four cashiers checks which when added up were $10k over the price of the car and he wanted change.
Needless to say the dealership called the bank to verify the authenticity of the checks, which caused some red flags to go off and the police showed up.
The guy then had the nerve to accuse the dealership of racism, cause if it’d been a white guy they would have taken these stolen checks no questions asked.
Anyway, the moral of the story… People who make these wild claims of bias against professors are more likely than not generally mentally unhinged.
Horowitz and Adam Jones are prime examples. I wouldn’t be surprised if next year we find out this Jones guy was caught doing something bizarelly illegal, like burning down a prof’s home or something.
33.
demimondian
I was just reading some of Hemingway’s titles and I see there is one called “To Kill An Elephant”.
See you’ve got your known knowns and your known unknowns and then you’ve got your unknown unknowns.
The absense of evidence is not the evidence of absense!
Do they speak English in what?
35.
Stormy70
This thread was already queer. I didn’t queer this thread anymore than Jake Gyllenhall queered Heath Ledger in Brokeback mountain. The thread already had certain, er, tendencies.
DougJ – I wish I could quit yew!
Heath Ledger – haute.
Jake – not. He has been with the Evil One – Kirsten Dunst. He’s tainted.
36.
The Other Steve
I’ve got other college crime stories. :-)
37.
radish
I know this sort of thing should be taken seriously, but I can’t help laughing. In a classic case of the invisible hand in action, a seller’s market in professorial misconduct has developed. Supply is tight, and demand is strong, resulting in a steep rise in prices. If I were an econ professor I’d make this a case study.
The only question in my mind is whether this a fungible or non-fungible commodity…
38.
Stormy70
I’ve got other college crime stories.
Not me. Nothing happened in college. Nothing.
39.
The Other Steve
I was just reading some of Hemingway’s titles and I see there is one called “To Kill An Elephant”.
Hemingway?
Orwell wrote a store “Shooting an Elephant”, sure you’re not thinking of that?
40.
DougJ
Radish — excellent comment. Very funny.
Stormy — Why is Kirsten Dunst the evil one?
41.
DougJ
What about the Camus story Killing An Arab, which was later made into a pretentious song by The Cure?
Horowitz and Adam Jones are prime examples. I wouldn’t be surprised if next year we find out this Jones guy was caught doing something bizarelly illegal, like burning down a prof’s home or something.
Actually, that hasn’t been illegal since we passed the Patriot Act.
43.
The Other Steve
I know this sort of thing should be taken seriously, but I can’t help laughing. In a classic case of the invisible hand in action, a seller’s market in professorial misconduct has developed. Supply is tight, and demand is strong, resulting in a steep rise in prices. If I were an econ professor I’d make this a case study.
Good point.
This is why tales of Republican corruption only net you $5.
Tales of Clinton corruption would get you $50,000 back in the 90’s.
44.
rachel
And there’s some downright bizarre stuff, too. One professor is denounced for being too critical of the Japanese-American internment:
Kang’s strange preoccupation with this historical footnote is in defiance of all reasonable history. Kang was born in South Korea, a country that (in its original undivided form) suffered for 50 years under a harsh imperial Japanese occupation. Moreover, South Korea was a country saved from Communist despotry by the United States not less than a decade after our brief use of Japanese internment camps.
Bzuh? I guess whoever it was who complained about Prof. Kang didn’t realize that Korean-Americans were rounded up and stuck in the camps right along with the Japanese-Americans–although Kang may have been complining on the grounds of “An injustice is an injustice,” or “If it could happen to them, it could happen to me” rather than “My own Great-Auntie was shut up in one of those places and never go over it.”
45.
demimondian
Camus story Killing An Arab
Maman est morte demain…
46.
The Other Steve
Not me. Nothing happened in college. Nothing.
Other lesson from college.
Beware of Physics students. They are ten times more likely to either peep the women’s restroom, or burn down their professors homes, than any other major.
Even including Computer Science. I attribute this to CompSci not providing a solid education foundation on the refraction of light with mirrors and lenses, or the chemical properties that make a good fire-starter. Instead CompSci students create blogs and say nasty things on them.
47.
Stormy70
She almost ruined Spiderman 1 and 2 for me with her overacting. That is a crime I cannot overlook.
Plus, she can’t dress herself, or spend some of those millions on hoisting her boobs up to where they belong. Or invest in soap and shampoo to clean herself. She wears fugly shoes, and not in a quirky, stylish way.
She almost ruined SPIDERMAN!!!
I did like her in Interview With the Vampire, but I wish she emulated her character and never grew up. Now I just want to stake her. (Can you tell I am ready to see Underworld: Evolution this week?)
48.
KC
The Other Steve,
That’s a pretty good story I think, only because I had a similar experience in one of my classes. In my case, a woman would spend half our class time getting emotional about some aspect of her life. When the professor finally had enough of it and told her to leave her problems at home(everyone felt sorry for her the first few classes), she got really upset and made every class from then on miserable. We (the students) finally told the woman to shut up and leave the class if she did not like it. It was an undergrad communications course, not something to get all worked up about.
49.
Darrell
The wingnut grade junkies at UCLA just hit the jackpot. They can stick it to the History prof who gave them a B+ and get $100 of beer money at the same time.
There is too little accountability in academia for profs indoctrinating students and pushing their extreme PC, but I agree that is not the way to change things. Waving $100 bills at broke college students looking for beer money is not going to buy any credibility
50.
Marcus Wellby
Plus, she can’t dress herself, or spend some of those millions on hoisting her boobs up to where they belong. Or invest in soap and shampoo to clean herself. She wears fugly shoes, and not in a quirky, stylish way.
Does Kirsten Dunst get staked in Underworld: Evolution?
Oh dear, I go to imdb, and the headline movie is ‘Why We Fight’. Man that’s going to get the righty undies in a bunch.
52.
Krista
Yikes. tell us how you really feel, Stormy. :)
No way would I have been indoctrinated or brainwashed in university. You actually have to go to classes for that to happen.
53.
The Other Steve
There is too little accountability in academia for profs indoctrinating students and pushing their extreme PC, but I agree that is not the way to change things.
You don’t think everybody on campus calling the guy a kook isn’t accountability?
It’s a free market. If you don’t like the professor, don’t take his class on the historical parallels between Michael Moore and Sir Edmund Burke.
54.
Krista
Stormy – I do agree with you about her lack of support garments, however. It’s not exclusive to her, however. Some rich people just dress like hobos. I saw a picture of one of the Olsen twins at a basketball game, wearing a dress, cowboy boots, and tights that looked like Wolverine had been using them to buff his claws. WTF? Lady, you’re rich as Croesus..buy yourself some new tights! They’re like, ten fucking dollars!
55.
Stormy70
Does Kirsten Dunst get staked in Underworld: Evolution?
I wish! I just have vampire movies on the mind.
Marcus, that is one of my fave blogs. Most of my fave blogs are in the entertainment genre, where the snark flows like cheap wine.
56.
Krista
It’s a free market. If you don’t like the professor, don’t take his class on the historical parallels between Michael Moore and Sir Edmund Burke.
I don’t know how well the free market theory works out when talking about university profs. Half of the time, when you sign up for classes, you don’t even know who the prof will be. And if you’re a freshman, even if you do know the name of the prof, it means diddly-squat. (Although ratemyprofessor.com has changed that aspect a bit.) Believe me, there are certain profs that I wish I had known more about beforehand…I would have NEVER set foot in their classrooms.
57.
radish
This is why tales of Republican corruption only net you $5.
Tales of Clinton corruption would get you $50,000 back in the 90’s.
Okay, you’ve persuaded me that misconduct is non-fungible ;-)
58.
SeesThroughIt
What about the Camus story Killing An Arab, which was later made into a pretentious song by The Cure?
Ah, The Stranger. My favorite novel ever, just barely edging out Lolita. “For the first time, in that night alive with signs and stars, I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world. Finding it so much like myself–so like a brother, really–I felt I had been happy and that I was happy again.”
Stormy: if you like entertainment websites with a high degree of snark, you should check out televisionwithoutpity.com. It’s a vast expanse of really smart, funny people snarking on TV.
59.
jcricket
There is too little accountability in academia for profs indoctrinating students and pushing their extreme PC
You have no proof of this, and have never offered any. Horowitz has been pumping this line for years and every example (even if it’s anecdotal) has been proven false. You just hate the fact that liberal professors are not subject to Swift-boat/Drudge/Limbaugh style “outings” and “justice”.
All you have is that the percentage of professors that identify themselves as liberal is greater than the percentage of people in the average population that identify themselves as liberal. And, since professors have a pulpit by the nature of their job, you therefore make the leap to the claim that liberal professors are using their pulpit to unduly indoctrinate students and/or unfairly influencing their grades.
Look, it’s a given that any professor, by his/her position, has power over students. It’s also a given that a professor, by his/her experience, likely has more knowledge about a subject than the students. Therefore, it’s no surprise that students feel that the knowledge transfer is largely a one-way activity (professor -> student). And many students (of any stripe) simply can’t accept being questioned. It’s also a given that professors are sometimes wrong.
None of this adds up to a vast conspiracy of academic leftists unfairly punishing conservative students.
Your vision of university is basically some place where false objectivity (meaning professors presenting all views as if they were equal) would reign. Which is not what academia is about. Although it does explain why people think ID and other clap-trap should be on “equal footing” to proven theories.
60.
demimondian
just barely edging out Lolita
Which was, in turn, made into a pretensious song by The Police, bringing us full circle to teachers who abuse their authority.
61.
SeesThroughIt
just barely edging out Lolita
Which was, in turn, made into a pretensious song by The Police, bringing us full circle to teachers who abuse their authority.
Wow, excellently played, demimondian!
62.
chef
I’m sure Neaderthals experienced a similar bitterness when the CroMags dominated the bonfire confabs.
63.
neil
I think it’s fascinating that David Horowitz reads this blog. I wonder if he reads comments? DougJ, if your next instance gets offered a column at FrontPage, we’ll be forever in awe.
64.
Lines
Marcus, that is one of my fave blogs. Most of my fave blogs are in the entertainment genre, where the snark flows like cheap wine.
Meaning that the snarking is so lowbrow that you feel like you can afford it?
65.
neil
There is too little accountability in academia for profs indoctrinating students and pushing their extreme PC…
That’s some pretty weak brew there, Darrell F. Kerry. You’re going to have to do better than that to get this crowd riled up…
66.
Stormy70
Stormy: if you like entertainment websites with a high degree of snark, you should check out televisionwithoutpity.com. It’s a vast expanse of really smart, funny people snarking on TV.
Already there, dude. TVgasm is another great TV site.
67.
ATS
“Cathy Young always sounds so darn reasonable. ”
Not on EVERY subject. Google her squabble with Eric Alterman. She is decidedly against nuanced coverage of the Middle East. She would happily put a cork in many of us.
68.
The Other Steve
I think it’s fascinating that David Horowitz reads this blog.
That’s because he’s actively trying to determine whether John should be turned into the Ministry of Culture.
Stormy, try here, though it may be a little male-taste-centric…
On a serious note(?), I’m having cognitive dissonance here. If there is a Vast Left-Wing Indoctrinating Conspiracy(TM) at our fine colleges and universities, they suck at the indoctrinating part. Otherwise, what explains the distinct conservative tilt of discourse in this country?
Annectdotally, I’ve had one professor who had definitive bias. But it was so obvious that everyone in the class knew to treat the implied question “what would the doctrinaire liberal feminist do?” as the actualy question. Which, in the context of law school, was probably useful in learning to articulate views you don’t neccesarily agree with. And she was a terrible prof, and everyone knew that too, which was maybe not unrelated, but a much bigger issue for everyone involved.
How long until liberal but sensible junior faculty agree to get “reported” for a piece of the cut?
Ta Da!, though he doesn’t claim to want a cut, seems likely to be a bait & switch to me…
72.
Steve
If there is a Vast Left-Wing Indoctrinating Conspiracy™ at our fine colleges and universities, they suck at the indoctrinating part. Otherwise, what explains the distinct conservative tilt of discourse in this country?
Perhaps it’s worth noting this Kevin Drum post from earlier (click link for a graph):
among people with at least some college education, a little less than 40% think we should withdraw as soon as possible. But among those with a high school education or less, this number shoots up to nearly 60%.
Somehow, it’s all the people who HAVEN’T been victims of liberal indoctrination who want us to withdraw from Iraq. Hmm.
73.
Stormy70
Stormy, try here, though it may be a little male-taste-centric…
It’s been bookmarked forevah!
This is their take on Kate Moss hooking up with Jack Osborne :
“Way to go Kate. Even if she tells people she wasn’t on drugs, nobody’s gonna believe her now. But whatever. The point is that she has terrible taste in men. You could stick her in a room with Brad Pitt, George Clooney, and the Kool-Aid Man, and five minutes later all you’d hear would be “Ohhhhhh Yeah!””
They are reaching Defcon 1 of snarkiness with this post.
Sigh. I love that site.
74.
The Other Steve
Somehow, it’s all the people who HAVEN’T been victims of liberal indoctrination who want us to withdraw from Iraq. Hmm.
Obviously this indoctrination is happening in grade school, or worse! With the parents!
This must be stopped.
The Bruins Association of Idiots will pay $100 for any student who turns in his leftist parents to the Ministry of Culture.
75.
JWeidner
Somehow, it’s all the people who HAVEN’T been victims of liberal indoctrination who want us to withdraw from Iraq. Hmm.
All that proves to me is that there is an insidious conservative indoctrination program occuring in all grade schools, middle schools, and high schools. We must root out this insidious corruption by publicly identifying, tarring, and feathering all conservative kindergarten teachers!
Watch out, the sword cuts both ways.
76.
LITBMueller
Seriously, anyone who is such an un-critical thinker that they are in danger of actually being “indoctrinated” or totally influenced by any professor really doesn’t belong in college, anyway.
Personal story: When I was studying law at CUA in D.C., never once did I ever get the urge to question Prof. Bob Destro in his class about his involvement with Ken Blackwell in Ohio and the 2003 presidential election. Never once.
No why? Because he has a right to his own views, as do I, and I CHOSE to take his class, and its HIS class.
77.
JWeidner
Steve – misread your cite. That’s what I get for skimming, I guess…
You actually had a prof named Destro? Did he teach class with a silver face shield? If he was sick, was Zartan the substitute? The mind boggles…
79.
ppGaz
Of course my post was snark. But paying $100 for dirt on professors just looks slimey. If someone has a legitimate beef with a professor, then go through the correct channels to address it. If you are in the right, then you can prevail.
I complain constantly when I think you are wrong, so I owe you a big Attagirl when you are right!
80.
Sojourner
The right wing is terrified that their children will learn to think for themselves. After all, who would defend the illegal and immoral activities of the current administration?
This could be the Cote du Rhone talking, but when I read these comments over, there is truly something sweet and wonderful about Stormy. I am sad that she has been taken in by Rove. But if we can forgive Celine and Pound for their attachment to fascism, then surely we can forgive Stormy and John for their attachment to Bush.
Justin, you just made my night with the Wachowski Bros. article. (I had just written something wondering wha happened? to the Matrixes…)
88.
Pb
Justin Slotman, Pooh,
Did you know that the guy (Chris Latta) who did the voice for Cobra Commander in G.I. Joe also did Starscream’s voice in Transformers? That also explains why Cobra Commander (“Old snake“) popped up again in a later Transformers episode (“Only Human”).
Does it explain why Cobra Commander was such a pussy?
90.
demimondian
I don’t know, DougJ. I hear that Malmo is a nice place in the summer.
91.
Mitchell
Peter Schweizer is the author of Victory, the story of how the Cold War was won, Reagan’s War, which describes President Reagan’s decades-long, and ultimately successful, battle against Communism, and several other books. His recent work, Do As I Say, is a departure. Schweizer profiles eleven leading liberals, and poses the question: how does the way they comport themselves in their business and personal lives comport with their stated liberal principles? The results are stunning.
Schweizer emphasizes that his purpose goes beyond the “gotcha” value of nailing liberal hypocrisy:
[D]espite the fact that they often speak of them with genuine conviction, these do-as-I-say liberals don’t actually trust their ideas enough to apply them at home. Instead, when it comes to the things that matter most in their personal lives, they tend to behave–ironically–more like conservatives than liberals. Which can only make one wonder: If their liberal prescriptions don’t really work for them as individuals, how can they work for the rest of us?
Good stuff, Mitchell. In that vein, I’ll repeat something I said earlier: It’s a bit sad to see the way the name McCarthy is dragged through the dirt, almost reflexively, by those who know nothing about what he did or what he stood for. The portrayal of Senator Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren’t cowering in fear during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation’s ability to defend itself while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy’s name.
Pooh, it’s the best explanation I can think of for the Matrix sequels turned out the way they did.
And Pb, I think we could tell even when we were young that they had the same voice. Anybody who was a television-watching child at that moment in the 80s has Chris Latta’s voice burned permanently into their brains.
94.
demimondian
Anybody who was a television-watching child at that moment in the 80s has Chris Latta’s voice burned permanently into their brains.
Suddenly, I feel very, very old…
95.
Pb
You know who else takes credit for winning the cold war? Osama bin Laden, go figure.
96.
ppGaz
Peter Schweizer is the author of Victory, the story of how the Cold War was won, Reagan’s War, which describes President Reagan’s decades-long, and ultimately successful, battle against Communism, and several other books. His recent work, Do As I Say, is a departure. Schweizer profiles eleven leading liberals, and poses the question: how does the way they comport themselves in their business and personal lives comport with their stated liberal principles? The results are stunning.
Schweizer emphasizes that his purpose goes beyond the “gotcha” value of nailing liberal hypocrisy:
[D]espite the fact that they often speak of them with genuine conviction, these do-as-I-say liberals don’t actually trust their ideas enough to apply them at home. Instead, when it comes to the things that matter most in their personal lives, they tend to behave—ironically—more like conservatives than liberals. Which can only make one wonder: If their liberal prescriptions don’t really work for them as individuals, how can they work for the rest of us?
Herb Finkelstein wrote that all right wingers are pederasts. While not surprising, this finding is unsettling. Do you know where your kids are?
It’s an interesting point Mitchell. I mean I support gay rights by day, but secretly in the privacy of my own home I date women*. Therefore I’m secretly conservative. I’ve been living a lie all this time…
*Yes, yes, make your jokes…
98.
Stormy70
Justin, you just made my night with the Wachowski Bros. article. (I had just written something wondering wha happened? to the Matrixes…)
He really screwed up the sequels, didn’t he? If he wants to make a music video, then make a music video. Don’t end the franchise with a cop out compromise. Where was the big battle we were all waiting for? It was just a mish mash of mushy philosophizing. That just translates to boring in my book. I consider The Matrix a stand alone feature, with no sequels. They are dead to me.
As for Vendetta? Probably will screw that up with scenes of people in long, black coats with sunglasses talking too much. Blah.
99.
The Other Steve
[D]espite the fact that they often speak of them with genuine conviction, these do-as-I-say liberals don’t actually trust their ideas enough to apply them at home. Instead, when it comes to the things that matter most in their personal lives, they tend to behave—ironically—more like conservatives than liberals. Which can only make one wonder: If their liberal prescriptions don’t really work for them as individuals, how can they work for the rest of us?
I support the 2nd amendment, but I have no guns at home. Does that make me a hypocritical conservative?
Perhaps the problem with this study is that Mr. jackass doesn’t understand liberalism. If you’d like some schooling on that, I’d be more than willing to help kick some common sense into you.
100.
ppGaz
President Reagan’s decades-long, and ultimately successful, battle against Communism
And there you have it, folks. Ronald Reagan, who couldn’t remember for sure if was president from day to day, single-handedly defeated communism. We are lucky to have lived in his illustrious shadow.
101.
CaseyL
President Reagan’s decades-long
Decades-long?
Elected in 1980, took office in 1981, left office in 1989. That’s, um, 8 years.
Decade = 10 years.
Decades = at least 20 years.
8 years = 20 years? What is that, New Neocon Math? Base 3?
Hell, honey, use binary and then you can say “President Reagan’s millenium-long” battle against Communism. You can have Ronnie battling Communism before the rest of the world even knew it existed!
102.
Jcricket
CaseyL – Don’t you know that Article II of the Constitution gives the President inherent power to bend time in order to fight evil? It’s either that or while he was president the 8 years felt like decades for anyone who was being “trickled” upon.
103.
Jcricket
Seriously, that Peter Schweizer guy just doesn’t get it. I mean, c’mon from the review of his book at amazon.com, I would say it’s clear that Schweizer himself is a “conservative hypocrisy apologist”:
While acknowledging that conservatives can be high-profile hypocrites as well, Schweizer employs a double standard, arguing that “when conservatives betray their publicly stated principles, they harm only themselves and their families,” but when liberals misbehave, they harm their principles first and foremost.
You could so easily replace the word Liberal with Conservative. Legislating against gay rights but actually being gay (see Jim West) only harms yourself. Legislating against abortion but then paying for your daughter to have one only hurts yourself. Claiming you support the poor because you tithe yourself and then voting to cut services that help millions of poor people. Ann Coulter/Michelle Malkin, who rail against liberals as “unhinged” and “violent”, while themselves suggesting blowing up or interning/tortuing liberals. I’m not arguing that conservatism is an inherently hypocritical, just that many people who espouse a rigid ideology will fail to live up to it.
The more interesting question is, are the policies supported by liberals/conservatives more/less helpful to society. And do those policies accomplish what they claim they will. For example, conservatives often preach abstinence before marriage as the “only way to go” (sex outside of marriage is a sin) while liberals preach sex education as necessary and sex before marriage as “a reality”. I’m sure there are conservatives having sex outside of marriage and liberal parents who react hypocritically when they find out their kids are having sex. Whatever.
More interesting is this: The studies so far show that abstinence education does delay the start of children’s sexual behavior, by about a year or two. But it doesn’t delay sex until marriage, does not decrease the number of abortions and does not decrease the prevalence of STDs. In fact, when students start having sex after receiving abstinence-only education, they get STDs and unwanted pregnancies at a rate higher than students who have received comprehensive sex education. Statistics from other countries also show that the rate of abortion goes down when sex education is offered in more comprehensive ways.
So, if your goal is to merely delay the onset of sex in teenagers, the conservative policy of abstinence-only sex education “works”. But if your goal is to decrease abortions and decrease STDs, the liberal policy works. So, despite the fact that liberals are “pro-choice” (i.e. OK with abortion being an option), the liberal policy decreases the incidence of abortion, something everyone wants.
That’s why, ultimately I’m a pragmatist about politics. I support policies that work and those people who are willing to change those policies when they don’t work. As opposed to policies that “sound” logical (i.e. appeal to me emotionally), but that don’t work when exposed to the real world.
Another classic example of the conservative rigidity queering the debate on a subject is healthcare. The ideology of conservatism says that no government program is ever run well (besides maybe the military/police) and no government program is ever cheaper/more efficient than a privately run enterprise. This sounds reasonable. We all know lots of “government-run” programs that are inefficient, and generally, the competition that comes with capitalism reduces prices and increases consumer choice (see the consumer electronics market).
However, because of the reality of the for-profit insurance business, healthcare does not work like other commercial industries. We have ample evidence that commercial healthcare covers few, at a high cost for those it covers with much administrative overhead. And there is voluminous evidence that shows that nationally-run healthcare programs cover more people for less per person and for less as a percentage of GDP, with less administrative overhead, higher user satisfaction rates. Oh, and they don’t lead to a general worsening of healthcare availability (i.e. the dreaded lines). England, France, Germany, Japan and our own Medicare system (not including Part D) are good examples of this.
Despite all that evidence, conservatives refuse to even discuss the possibility of changing the healthcare system. Sure, if we had nationalized healthcare, I’m sure there would be rich liberals who tout it in public, but privately fly to Switzerland for their plastic surgery or to jump the line for their heart transplant. But that ignores the fact that the liberal ideology about healthcare is right and the conservative one is wrong.
Doesn’t matter what the individual politicians do, basically.
[D]espite the fact that they often speak of them with genuine conviction, these do-as-I-say liberals don’t actually trust their ideas enough to apply them at home.
Good thing the “family values” conservatives aren’t hypocrites. What number wife is Newt Gingrich on again?
105.
W.B. Reeves
Exactly why should anyone care what Peter Schweizer thinks?
Oh that’s right. He wrote a book claiming that Reagan defeated communism after a decades long struggle. Obviously a mind with a firm grasp of the facts.
106.
BIRDZILLA
Beware you liberal left-wing reptiles at UCLA theres a shakedown comming
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Stormy70
If it was like my college experience, I would find “something” wrong my professors did just for the sweet moola. Giving up your young healthy plasma only netted $15 in the 80’s, and one weekend at the clubs. Being of the female persuasion meant we did not have to purchase any drinks.
Steve
Cathy Young always sounds so darn reasonable. I think she is right to be amused by David Horowitz’s “fake but accurate” defense (which, obviously, is not copyrighted by the Right). My favorite Horowitz anecdote is the story he pushed about a Colorado student who was given an F for refusing to take some liberal viewpoint on a final exam. When the university responded that the student had not, in fact, received an F, Horowitz’s answer was “Well, I don’t have the time to fact-check every story, but if the student was accustomed to getting A’s, it’s entirely possible that a B or C would have felt like an F to her!”
Mr Furious
The problem is the ravenous appetite of the right-wing media for this stuff—eager to represent academia as the “liberal elite”, the Hannitys, Gibsons and O’Reillys will eat this stuff with a shovel. The next thing you know, a perfectly moderate professor will be quoted out of context, thrust unfairly into the spotlight, and turned in to the next Ward Churchill—public enemy #1.
Classrooms are not the “public arena” and professors are not “public figures.” This is wrong.
Now faculty have to worry about being having everything the say used against them? Talk about a chilling effect.
Krista
Exactly. And what if a prof is tough? I can think of a few profs in university who I would have been more than happy to sell out for some drinking money. Their politics had nothing to do with it. They were either just incompetent (but with tenure), or jerks.
Lines
Red State University Exam Question:
George W. Bush, being the bestest President Evah, finds himself travelling Eastward on train from Colorado Springs at 70mph. Ted Kennedy, after personally raping and dumping Mary Jo’s corpse, finds himself travelling at 65mph westward from her dump location. At what point would George Bush’s holy aura cause Ted Kennedy to drive off the road and kill a terrorist cell?
docG
A willingness to tell damaging lies for money and falsely (an assumption on my part, since you usually post on the side of morality and decency) letting the boys think they have a shot in exchange for a free drink. Next time you feel inclined to take a pot shot at someone’s ethics or behavior, take a deep breath and think of your above post first.
Marcus Wellby
Other than the occasional TV show I have not agreed with anything Stormy has ever said here and I don’t think our politics or opinions about most things could be any farther apart. But I assume her post to be pure snark in relation to ratting out teachers. As for the ladies not needing to buy drinks, well, thats just reality.
Steve
Any man who would complain about women getting free drinks clearly fails to understand that the arrangement works to his advantage on many levels.
my cat
My sister is a college professor and she deals al the time with students who are bullies and who use “my rich daddy” or threats of lawsuits to get grades they haven’t earned. Since she teaches in a dental school politics isn’t an issue.
I think we should start a campaign to get rid of all the conservative professors that dominate in the fields of economics and mathematics. Also what about the military? Shouldn’t we require some kind of quota to make sure Democrats get to be officers?
Lines
my cat: why would you want officers that are predisposed to hate the military and America?
neil
The problem is the ravenous appetite of the right-wing media for this stuff…
Indeed, Furious, and this even creeps into right-wing media consumers who aren’t at all behind this particular move. I’m not referring to John’s post which is rather a weak example, but every conservative blog that I’ve seen condemning these jokers has had to throw a few words towards addressing the serious problem of left-wing indoctrinators on campus.
With any luck, in a few years there will be nothing left that’s not named after Ronald Reagan, so these professors will be robbed of their tools of manipulation…
Lines
You know what really bothers me? The fact that Hemingway (Papa) is granted God status in Lit classes. The man was a Conservative, for Christ’s sake!
Besides that, he sucked.
docG
Steve Says:
First of all, it was not a complaint, just an illustration of questionable ethical behavior. Secondly, I do fail to understand. Perhaps you could share examples of four or five levels of advantage? Lastly, I would have never pointed out the hypocrisy of the comment if not completely confident that Stormy can handle criticism without Sir Galahads rushing in to protect her. (If you cannot see the parallel between seeing “the advantages of buying women drinks” and men rushing in uninvited to defend a woman’s honor, then a review of male privilege and mysoginistic assumptions are in order.)
Stormy70
Of course my post was snark. But paying $100 for dirt on professors just looks slimey. If someone has a legitimate beef with a professor, then go through the correct channels to address it. If you are in the right, then you can prevail.
Ben
This sort of thing is happening to some extent all over the country. THIS crap is nothing but pure McCarthyistic BS. Isn’t it nice how they are only target “liberal” professors. By and large the most common offenders I had of people pushing their ideological values into a classroom were conservative teachers. I’m not saying that there weren’t some teachers with a liberal bias… but in my experience there’s bias on both sides. And in my case conservatives just happened to be the worst offenders… I’m sure in other places it’s the opposite.
It’s a little frightening… look at George Will’s attack on Schools of Education and Here in PA for example.
It’s the same victim’s mentality that the Intelligent Design people use when attacking “Darwinism.” That somehow by teaching a course or a subject that disagrees with your personal beliefs they are being attacked.
GROW UP. These same people that get offended when little Johnny is being taut that he decended from a lemur, or disput the evidence for global warming, or whatever oither pet right wing politcal theory they espouse might be wrong often are the same one who scoff at “P.C.” policies… I guess the First Amendment only applies to what THEY want to say.
Stormy70
Is this projection? How do you think I met my husband? ;)
Blue Neponset
The wingnut grade junkies at UCLA just hit the jackpot. They can stick it to the History prof who gave them a B+ and get $100 of beer money at the same time.
DougJ
It’s a bit sad to see the way the name McCarthy is dragged through the dirt, almost reflexively, by those who know nothing about what he did or what he stood for. The portrayal of Senator Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren’t cowering in fear during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation’s ability to defend itself while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy’s name.
KC
I think we all can say we’ve had a professor or two that tosses an opinion in the mix when it’s inappropriate. That said, what I fear about this whole thing is that it will lead to a witch hunt. Students who don’t like their grades, or a particular professor, or a subject they are being tought–think about an undergrad biology professor who teaches evolution or an undergrad history professor who teaches ancient history, not bible history–could sweep good people into Horowitz’s net and end their careers. This just seems like a recipe for disaster.
neil
Sigh. I think the magic is gone.
Marcus Wellby
DougJ, you need to change your name — the parady troll just doesn’t work once you’ve been revealed.
Marcus Wellby
Good god DocG — if you are going to make statements like that, you could at least spell womyn with the “y”.
Otto Man
Man, that’s a good post. She really captures Horowitz’s tooliness.
Ben
Actually DougJ tell that to whoever created the right wing talking point describing Ted Kennedy and Feinstein during the Alito hearings.
The Other Steve
Doug! You promised not to queer any threads for the next two weeks. You didn’t even make it a full day!
:-)
DougJ
I know, Marcus, I know. I’m not sure who John feels about my doing that, though.
Zifnab
See you’ve got your known knowns and your known unknowns and then you’ve got your unknown unknowns.
The absense of evidence is not the evidence of absense!
Chilling how the war on your local university has such a habit of echoing the War on WMDs in Iraq.
Stormy70
Really, I think we need an open thread. Who’s watching American Idol. Admit it. My favorite site’s take on it.
DougJ
This thread was already queer. I didn’t queer this thread anymore than Jake Gyllenhall queered Heath Ledger in Brokeback mountain. The thread already had certain, er, tendencies.
Lines
I was just reading some of Hemingway’s titles and I see there is one called “To Kill An Elephant”.
I find this sort of outragious threat towards our elected officials to be eggregious and serious. Can someone please dig up his corpse and haul it down to Gitmo for questioning?
demimondian
I’m with Stormy here, we need an open thread.
[uhhh…wait….DougJ, aren’t I supposed to add snark after that? Pat R? mycat? BlogReeder? Somebody?]
The Other Steve
True story…
Back when I was in college 1990 or so, there was this guy who went into a tirade because a white professor was teaching a class on African culture. He accused her of all sorts of biases, etc. and just made her life unbearable in class. It made it into the newspapers for a week or more, and he got lot’s of press.
Six months later… I think the University had actually kicked him out because he failed all his classes, or something. He’s in the news again.
He’d gotten a job at the local bank, and got access to the Cashier Check making machine and printed him up some checks. Well this guy wasn’t a Leonardo DiCaprio by any means. He tried to go into a Porsche dealership and buy a 911 Cabriolet using three or four cashiers checks which when added up were $10k over the price of the car and he wanted change.
Needless to say the dealership called the bank to verify the authenticity of the checks, which caused some red flags to go off and the police showed up.
The guy then had the nerve to accuse the dealership of racism, cause if it’d been a white guy they would have taken these stolen checks no questions asked.
Anyway, the moral of the story… People who make these wild claims of bias against professors are more likely than not generally mentally unhinged.
Horowitz and Adam Jones are prime examples. I wouldn’t be surprised if next year we find out this Jones guy was caught doing something bizarelly illegal, like burning down a prof’s home or something.
demimondian
It’s the sequel to “The Old Man and DC”.
Pooh
Do they speak English in what?
Stormy70
DougJ – I wish I could quit yew!
Heath Ledger – haute.
Jake – not. He has been with the Evil One – Kirsten Dunst. He’s tainted.
The Other Steve
I’ve got other college crime stories. :-)
radish
I know this sort of thing should be taken seriously, but I can’t help laughing. In a classic case of the invisible hand in action, a seller’s market in professorial misconduct has developed. Supply is tight, and demand is strong, resulting in a steep rise in prices. If I were an econ professor I’d make this a case study.
The only question in my mind is whether this a fungible or non-fungible commodity…
Stormy70
Not me. Nothing happened in college. Nothing.
The Other Steve
Hemingway?
Orwell wrote a store “Shooting an Elephant”, sure you’re not thinking of that?
DougJ
Radish — excellent comment. Very funny.
Stormy — Why is Kirsten Dunst the evil one?
DougJ
What about the Camus story Killing An Arab, which was later made into a pretentious song by The Cure?
Otto Man
Actually, that hasn’t been illegal since we passed the Patriot Act.
The Other Steve
Good point.
This is why tales of Republican corruption only net you $5.
Tales of Clinton corruption would get you $50,000 back in the 90’s.
rachel
Bzuh? I guess whoever it was who complained about Prof. Kang didn’t realize that Korean-Americans were rounded up and stuck in the camps right along with the Japanese-Americans–although Kang may have been complining on the grounds of “An injustice is an injustice,” or “If it could happen to them, it could happen to me” rather than “My own Great-Auntie was shut up in one of those places and never go over it.”
demimondian
Maman est morte demain…
The Other Steve
Other lesson from college.
Beware of Physics students. They are ten times more likely to either peep the women’s restroom, or burn down their professors homes, than any other major.
Even including Computer Science. I attribute this to CompSci not providing a solid education foundation on the refraction of light with mirrors and lenses, or the chemical properties that make a good fire-starter. Instead CompSci students create blogs and say nasty things on them.
Stormy70
She almost ruined Spiderman 1 and 2 for me with her overacting. That is a crime I cannot overlook.
Plus, she can’t dress herself, or spend some of those millions on hoisting her boobs up to where they belong. Or invest in soap and shampoo to clean herself. She wears fugly shoes, and not in a quirky, stylish way.
She almost ruined SPIDERMAN!!!
I did like her in Interview With the Vampire, but I wish she emulated her character and never grew up. Now I just want to stake her. (Can you tell I am ready to see Underworld: Evolution this week?)
KC
The Other Steve,
That’s a pretty good story I think, only because I had a similar experience in one of my classes. In my case, a woman would spend half our class time getting emotional about some aspect of her life. When the professor finally had enough of it and told her to leave her problems at home(everyone felt sorry for her the first few classes), she got really upset and made every class from then on miserable. We (the students) finally told the woman to shut up and leave the class if she did not like it. It was an undergrad communications course, not something to get all worked up about.
Darrell
There is too little accountability in academia for profs indoctrinating students and pushing their extreme PC, but I agree that is not the way to change things. Waving $100 bills at broke college students looking for beer money is not going to buy any credibility
Marcus Wellby
Stormy, sounds like you are a fan of this site: http://gofugyourself.typepad.com/go_fug_yourself/kirsten_dunst/index.html
The Other Steve
Does Kirsten Dunst get staked in Underworld: Evolution?
Oh dear, I go to imdb, and the headline movie is ‘Why We Fight’. Man that’s going to get the righty undies in a bunch.
Krista
Yikes. tell us how you really feel, Stormy. :)
No way would I have been indoctrinated or brainwashed in university. You actually have to go to classes for that to happen.
The Other Steve
You don’t think everybody on campus calling the guy a kook isn’t accountability?
It’s a free market. If you don’t like the professor, don’t take his class on the historical parallels between Michael Moore and Sir Edmund Burke.
Krista
Stormy – I do agree with you about her lack of support garments, however. It’s not exclusive to her, however. Some rich people just dress like hobos. I saw a picture of one of the Olsen twins at a basketball game, wearing a dress, cowboy boots, and tights that looked like Wolverine had been using them to buff his claws. WTF? Lady, you’re rich as Croesus..buy yourself some new tights! They’re like, ten fucking dollars!
Stormy70
I wish! I just have vampire movies on the mind.
Marcus, that is one of my fave blogs. Most of my fave blogs are in the entertainment genre, where the snark flows like cheap wine.
Krista
I don’t know how well the free market theory works out when talking about university profs. Half of the time, when you sign up for classes, you don’t even know who the prof will be. And if you’re a freshman, even if you do know the name of the prof, it means diddly-squat. (Although ratemyprofessor.com has changed that aspect a bit.) Believe me, there are certain profs that I wish I had known more about beforehand…I would have NEVER set foot in their classrooms.
radish
Okay, you’ve persuaded me that misconduct is non-fungible ;-)
SeesThroughIt
Ah, The Stranger. My favorite novel ever, just barely edging out Lolita. “For the first time, in that night alive with signs and stars, I opened myself to the gentle indifference of the world. Finding it so much like myself–so like a brother, really–I felt I had been happy and that I was happy again.”
Stormy: if you like entertainment websites with a high degree of snark, you should check out televisionwithoutpity.com. It’s a vast expanse of really smart, funny people snarking on TV.
jcricket
You have no proof of this, and have never offered any. Horowitz has been pumping this line for years and every example (even if it’s anecdotal) has been proven false. You just hate the fact that liberal professors are not subject to Swift-boat/Drudge/Limbaugh style “outings” and “justice”.
All you have is that the percentage of professors that identify themselves as liberal is greater than the percentage of people in the average population that identify themselves as liberal. And, since professors have a pulpit by the nature of their job, you therefore make the leap to the claim that liberal professors are using their pulpit to unduly indoctrinate students and/or unfairly influencing their grades.
Look, it’s a given that any professor, by his/her position, has power over students. It’s also a given that a professor, by his/her experience, likely has more knowledge about a subject than the students. Therefore, it’s no surprise that students feel that the knowledge transfer is largely a one-way activity (professor -> student). And many students (of any stripe) simply can’t accept being questioned. It’s also a given that professors are sometimes wrong.
None of this adds up to a vast conspiracy of academic leftists unfairly punishing conservative students.
Your vision of university is basically some place where false objectivity (meaning professors presenting all views as if they were equal) would reign. Which is not what academia is about. Although it does explain why people think ID and other clap-trap should be on “equal footing” to proven theories.
demimondian
Which was, in turn, made into a pretensious song by The Police, bringing us full circle to teachers who abuse their authority.
SeesThroughIt
Wow, excellently played, demimondian!
chef
I’m sure Neaderthals experienced a similar bitterness when the CroMags dominated the bonfire confabs.
neil
I think it’s fascinating that David Horowitz reads this blog. I wonder if he reads comments? DougJ, if your next instance gets offered a column at FrontPage, we’ll be forever in awe.
Lines
Meaning that the snarking is so lowbrow that you feel like you can afford it?
neil
There is too little accountability in academia for profs indoctrinating students and pushing their extreme PC…
That’s some pretty weak brew there, Darrell F. Kerry. You’re going to have to do better than that to get this crowd riled up…
Stormy70
Already there, dude. TVgasm is another great TV site.
ATS
“Cathy Young always sounds so darn reasonable. ”
Not on EVERY subject. Google her squabble with Eric Alterman. She is decidedly against nuanced coverage of the Middle East. She would happily put a cork in many of us.
The Other Steve
That’s because he’s actively trying to determine whether John should be turned into the Ministry of Culture.
Kimmitt
How long until liberal but sensible junior faculty agree to get “reported” for a piece of the cut?
Pooh
Stormy, try here, though it may be a little male-taste-centric…
On a serious note(?), I’m having cognitive dissonance here. If there is a Vast Left-Wing Indoctrinating Conspiracy(TM) at our fine colleges and universities, they suck at the indoctrinating part. Otherwise, what explains the distinct conservative tilt of discourse in this country?
Annectdotally, I’ve had one professor who had definitive bias. But it was so obvious that everyone in the class knew to treat the implied question “what would the doctrinaire liberal feminist do?” as the actualy question. Which, in the context of law school, was probably useful in learning to articulate views you don’t neccesarily agree with. And she was a terrible prof, and everyone knew that too, which was maybe not unrelated, but a much bigger issue for everyone involved.
Pooh
Kimmitt
Ta Da!, though he doesn’t claim to want a cut, seems likely to be a bait & switch to me…
Steve
Perhaps it’s worth noting this Kevin Drum post from earlier (click link for a graph):
Somehow, it’s all the people who HAVEN’T been victims of liberal indoctrination who want us to withdraw from Iraq. Hmm.
Stormy70
It’s been bookmarked forevah!
This is their take on Kate Moss hooking up with Jack Osborne :
“Way to go Kate. Even if she tells people she wasn’t on drugs, nobody’s gonna believe her now. But whatever. The point is that she has terrible taste in men. You could stick her in a room with Brad Pitt, George Clooney, and the Kool-Aid Man, and five minutes later all you’d hear would be “Ohhhhhh Yeah!””
They are reaching Defcon 1 of snarkiness with this post.
Sigh. I love that site.
The Other Steve
Obviously this indoctrination is happening in grade school, or worse! With the parents!
This must be stopped.
The Bruins Association of Idiots will pay $100 for any student who turns in his leftist parents to the Ministry of Culture.
JWeidner
All that proves to me is that there is an insidious conservative indoctrination program occuring in all grade schools, middle schools, and high schools. We must root out this insidious corruption by publicly identifying, tarring, and feathering all conservative kindergarten teachers!
Watch out, the sword cuts both ways.
LITBMueller
Seriously, anyone who is such an un-critical thinker that they are in danger of actually being “indoctrinated” or totally influenced by any professor really doesn’t belong in college, anyway.
Personal story: When I was studying law at CUA in D.C., never once did I ever get the urge to question Prof. Bob Destro in his class about his involvement with Ken Blackwell in Ohio and the 2003 presidential election. Never once.
No why? Because he has a right to his own views, as do I, and I CHOSE to take his class, and its HIS class.
JWeidner
Steve – misread your cite. That’s what I get for skimming, I guess…
Pooh
You actually had a prof named Destro? Did he teach class with a silver face shield? If he was sick, was Zartan the substitute? The mind boggles…
ppGaz
I complain constantly when I think you are wrong, so I owe you a big Attagirl when you are right!
Sojourner
The right wing is terrified that their children will learn to think for themselves. After all, who would defend the illegal and immoral activities of the current administration?
DougJ
This could be the Cote du Rhone talking, but when I read these comments over, there is truly something sweet and wonderful about Stormy. I am sad that she has been taken in by Rove. But if we can forgive Celine and Pound for their attachment to fascism, then surely we can forgive Stormy and John for their attachment to Bush.
DougJ
Bear in mind, this was the University of Malmo, famed for its studies on oral cancer.
Stormy70
I was INDOCRINATED! Where’s my $100?! I can name names, tell you where the bodies are buried…
I, um, need to go now. Yeah.
Justin Slotman
Pooh just made my night with the G.I. Joe references.
Pb
Stormy,
Except for the politics,
never change. :)
Kimmitt
Heh, maybe it has more to do with whose friends are dying out there for no good reason.
Pooh
Justin, you just made my night with the Wachowski Bros. article. (I had just written something wondering wha happened? to the Matrixes…)
Pb
Justin Slotman, Pooh,
Did you know that the guy (Chris Latta) who did the voice for Cobra Commander in G.I. Joe also did Starscream’s voice in Transformers? That also explains why Cobra Commander (“Old snake“) popped up again in a later Transformers episode (“Only Human”).
Ok, I’ll shut up now. :)
Pooh
Does it explain why Cobra Commander was such a pussy?
demimondian
I don’t know, DougJ. I hear that Malmo is a nice place in the summer.
Mitchell
Peter Schweizer is the author of Victory, the story of how the Cold War was won, Reagan’s War, which describes President Reagan’s decades-long, and ultimately successful, battle against Communism, and several other books. His recent work, Do As I Say, is a departure. Schweizer profiles eleven leading liberals, and poses the question: how does the way they comport themselves in their business and personal lives comport with their stated liberal principles? The results are stunning.
Schweizer emphasizes that his purpose goes beyond the “gotcha” value of nailing liberal hypocrisy:
[D]espite the fact that they often speak of them with genuine conviction, these do-as-I-say liberals don’t actually trust their ideas enough to apply them at home. Instead, when it comes to the things that matter most in their personal lives, they tend to behave–ironically–more like conservatives than liberals. Which can only make one wonder: If their liberal prescriptions don’t really work for them as individuals, how can they work for the rest of us?
DougJ
Good stuff, Mitchell. In that vein, I’ll repeat something I said earlier: It’s a bit sad to see the way the name McCarthy is dragged through the dirt, almost reflexively, by those who know nothing about what he did or what he stood for. The portrayal of Senator Joe McCarthy as a wild-eyed demagogue destroying innocent lives is sheer liberal hobgoblinism. Liberals weren’t cowering in fear during the McCarthy era. They were systematically undermining the nation’s ability to defend itself while waging a bellicose campaign of lies to blacken McCarthy’s name.
Justin Slotman
Pooh, it’s the best explanation I can think of for the Matrix sequels turned out the way they did.
And Pb, I think we could tell even when we were young that they had the same voice. Anybody who was a television-watching child at that moment in the 80s has Chris Latta’s voice burned permanently into their brains.
demimondian
Suddenly, I feel very, very old…
Pb
You know who else takes credit for winning the cold war? Osama bin Laden, go figure.
ppGaz
Herb Finkelstein wrote that all right wingers are pederasts. While not surprising, this finding is unsettling. Do you know where your kids are?
Pooh
It’s an interesting point Mitchell. I mean I support gay rights by day, but secretly in the privacy of my own home I date women*. Therefore I’m secretly conservative. I’ve been living a lie all this time…
*Yes, yes, make your jokes…
Stormy70
He really screwed up the sequels, didn’t he? If he wants to make a music video, then make a music video. Don’t end the franchise with a cop out compromise. Where was the big battle we were all waiting for? It was just a mish mash of mushy philosophizing. That just translates to boring in my book. I consider The Matrix a stand alone feature, with no sequels. They are dead to me.
As for Vendetta? Probably will screw that up with scenes of people in long, black coats with sunglasses talking too much. Blah.
The Other Steve
I support the 2nd amendment, but I have no guns at home. Does that make me a hypocritical conservative?
Perhaps the problem with this study is that Mr. jackass doesn’t understand liberalism. If you’d like some schooling on that, I’d be more than willing to help kick some common sense into you.
ppGaz
And there you have it, folks. Ronald Reagan, who couldn’t remember for sure if was president from day to day, single-handedly defeated communism. We are lucky to have lived in his illustrious shadow.
CaseyL
Decades-long?
Elected in 1980, took office in 1981, left office in 1989. That’s, um, 8 years.
Decade = 10 years.
Decades = at least 20 years.
8 years = 20 years? What is that, New Neocon Math? Base 3?
Hell, honey, use binary and then you can say “President Reagan’s millenium-long” battle against Communism. You can have Ronnie battling Communism before the rest of the world even knew it existed!
Jcricket
CaseyL – Don’t you know that Article II of the Constitution gives the President inherent power to bend time in order to fight evil? It’s either that or while he was president the 8 years felt like decades for anyone who was being “trickled” upon.
Jcricket
Seriously, that Peter Schweizer guy just doesn’t get it. I mean, c’mon from the review of his book at amazon.com, I would say it’s clear that Schweizer himself is a “conservative hypocrisy apologist”:
You could so easily replace the word Liberal with Conservative. Legislating against gay rights but actually being gay (see Jim West) only harms yourself. Legislating against abortion but then paying for your daughter to have one only hurts yourself. Claiming you support the poor because you tithe yourself and then voting to cut services that help millions of poor people. Ann Coulter/Michelle Malkin, who rail against liberals as “unhinged” and “violent”, while themselves suggesting blowing up or interning/tortuing liberals. I’m not arguing that conservatism is an inherently hypocritical, just that many people who espouse a rigid ideology will fail to live up to it.
The more interesting question is, are the policies supported by liberals/conservatives more/less helpful to society. And do those policies accomplish what they claim they will. For example, conservatives often preach abstinence before marriage as the “only way to go” (sex outside of marriage is a sin) while liberals preach sex education as necessary and sex before marriage as “a reality”. I’m sure there are conservatives having sex outside of marriage and liberal parents who react hypocritically when they find out their kids are having sex. Whatever.
More interesting is this: The studies so far show that abstinence education does delay the start of children’s sexual behavior, by about a year or two. But it doesn’t delay sex until marriage, does not decrease the number of abortions and does not decrease the prevalence of STDs. In fact, when students start having sex after receiving abstinence-only education, they get STDs and unwanted pregnancies at a rate higher than students who have received comprehensive sex education. Statistics from other countries also show that the rate of abortion goes down when sex education is offered in more comprehensive ways.
So, if your goal is to merely delay the onset of sex in teenagers, the conservative policy of abstinence-only sex education “works”. But if your goal is to decrease abortions and decrease STDs, the liberal policy works. So, despite the fact that liberals are “pro-choice” (i.e. OK with abortion being an option), the liberal policy decreases the incidence of abortion, something everyone wants.
That’s why, ultimately I’m a pragmatist about politics. I support policies that work and those people who are willing to change those policies when they don’t work. As opposed to policies that “sound” logical (i.e. appeal to me emotionally), but that don’t work when exposed to the real world.
Another classic example of the conservative rigidity queering the debate on a subject is healthcare. The ideology of conservatism says that no government program is ever run well (besides maybe the military/police) and no government program is ever cheaper/more efficient than a privately run enterprise. This sounds reasonable. We all know lots of “government-run” programs that are inefficient, and generally, the competition that comes with capitalism reduces prices and increases consumer choice (see the consumer electronics market).
However, because of the reality of the for-profit insurance business, healthcare does not work like other commercial industries. We have ample evidence that commercial healthcare covers few, at a high cost for those it covers with much administrative overhead. And there is voluminous evidence that shows that nationally-run healthcare programs cover more people for less per person and for less as a percentage of GDP, with less administrative overhead, higher user satisfaction rates. Oh, and they don’t lead to a general worsening of healthcare availability (i.e. the dreaded lines). England, France, Germany, Japan and our own Medicare system (not including Part D) are good examples of this.
Despite all that evidence, conservatives refuse to even discuss the possibility of changing the healthcare system. Sure, if we had nationalized healthcare, I’m sure there would be rich liberals who tout it in public, but privately fly to Switzerland for their plastic surgery or to jump the line for their heart transplant. But that ignores the fact that the liberal ideology about healthcare is right and the conservative one is wrong.
Doesn’t matter what the individual politicians do, basically.
Otto Man
Good thing the “family values” conservatives aren’t hypocrites. What number wife is Newt Gingrich on again?
W.B. Reeves
Exactly why should anyone care what Peter Schweizer thinks?
Oh that’s right. He wrote a book claiming that Reagan defeated communism after a decades long struggle. Obviously a mind with a firm grasp of the facts.
BIRDZILLA
Beware you liberal left-wing reptiles at UCLA theres a shakedown comming