Glad Hamas has got their priorities set when taking over as the ruling party responsible for the delivery of services to their people:
Shortly after making his comments about the Hamas, Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar said from Gaza that Israel must change its flag. “Israel must remove the two blue stripes from its national flag”, said Zahar. “The stripes on the flag are symbols of occupation. They signify Israel’s borders stretching from the River Euphrates to the River Nile.”
Israel’s national flag, a blue Star of David set between two blue stripes, was designed to resemble a Jewish prayer shawl which traditionally has stripes.
Lovely.
Lines
While maybe being new entertainment for a bored press that is unfairly picking on an embattled president, these types of things tend to get picked up by the extremists as justification for their radical stances. Both sides will use it to justify new and future attacks on the “enemy”.
If Democracy and elections don’t work to make Palestine and Israel happy little neighbors, how can anyone expect it to work in Iraq?
Paul L.
Since Lines enjoys posting about Bush’s low approval rating, I thought Lines would like to comment on this.
BUSH BREAKS FIFTY PERCENT APPROVAL on the Rasmussen poll.
You are right Lines. The world should scrap the Democracy/Republic idea and go back to Kings/Dictators.
Lines
You’re a simplton, Paul, easily impressed with pretty lights and colorful charts. You must be in management.
The rise to Democracy has never come through external force, it has always come from internal sources and a desire by the masses to move in the direction of a representative government.
Perhaps you can show how Democracy has risen from an external force? Germany was already a Democracy and Japan had already been toying with representation and was primed for it before America occupied it.
History doesn’t agree with our experiment, Paul. Why do you hate history?
Lines
Oh, and I don’t know where you get that I’m obsessed with polls, as I rarely comment on them. Toying around the middle of the spectrum doesn’t impress me, but it may mean that America may stop being so divided soon. Of course, there will be ten more polls to say he’s still in the 30’s, and there’s the whole SOTU that he will screw up, so why are you taking such stock in a single data point?
I could taunt you all day long with how he’s losing the war for public opinion, Paul. Why do you want to play a losing position?
Paul L.
Sorry must of confused you with another lefty moonbat who posts here.
IMHO, Polls are BS.
As I recall Iraq has had elections/voting. Didn’t Saddam get 99.99999% of the vote last time he ran for President or whatever it is called of Iraq
Lines
What a great way to encourage Democracy in the Middle East. Because this administration is so stuck in a world of Black/White, they are unable to even work with an elected government. They supported the prior leadership even though it was plainly hiding its complicancy with Palestinian terrorism, yet when a plain speaking visible party is elected, instead of encouraging diplomacy we just tell them they are about to be Dixie Chicked.
And it was well acknowledged that Saddam’s election was invalid as it wasn’t open to international auditing.
Steve
Well, um, I wouldn’t give aid to Hamas either, not that I was in favor of giving aid to the party of Yasser Arafat.
Lines
Cutting all funding and encouraging other countries to follow suit isn’t going to bring Hamas/Palestine to the bargaining table. Leaving Hamas out or ignoring them isn’t going to make them go away, its just going to make them stick to their old ways, ways that Ms. Rice needs to be reminded, got them into power through a Democratic election.
Stormy70
Why should our money go to reward the Palestinians” collective stupidity? Hamas is a terrorist organization, and it’s not like they weren’t warned about electing Hamas. They did it anyway, so Hamas is now in the big leagues and will have to deal with an already pissed off constituency.
Steve
I’m not sure if we’re agreeing or disagreeing. I favor the Bill Clinton approach, that is, I’d keep an open mind about talking to Hamas and sending them aid if they change their ways and commit to being a legitimate, non-terrorism-sponsoring government. But the ball is in their court to change.
Steve
Very nice dkos diary on this issue here.
Perry Como
Democracy Spread: Now with 20% more extremism!
Theseus
Dirty little secret about democracy and elections: there are CONSEQUENCES for one’s choices (a lesson that Democrats sometimes have difficulty grasping). The Palestinians made their faustian choice, now they have to live with the consequences of their actions with respect to Israel, the US and hopefully Europe. They chose war over peace and they deserve everything Israel throws at them. There is only so much a person can do to stop another person from commiting suicide, which is what the Palestinians apparently want to do.
Off Colfax
Well damn. That makes two news stories that’ve made me spit coffee all over the monitor. And in under 12 hours, too… Okay, the first one also made me seriously consider a career in projectile vomiting (Sheehan for Senate? Projectile vomiting should be a traditional response for that one, and I’m sure that my post on it closely resembled the aftermath of such activity.) in addition to the spit take.
I’m thinking I might need a news break for a litle bit. And not just because I’m leaving for work in an hour. If I get any more coffee on the cats with my continued out-of-control spit takes, they’re going on strike. I’m sure of it.
Lines
Who says Hamas has to continue the way they did? Who says Palestine only wants war and that this election is a direct indication? Right now, they have gone from a bastard that hid everything to a group that doesn’t hide much. They know what they want and they say so. Thats definately a lot better than a snake in the grass.
Now if Israel does the same thing, what will we see?
Steve
The fact that the Republicans have difficulty grasping is that, like it or not, you can’t bully the world into doing things your way. This was a lesson most recently learned in Iran and now in the Palestinian elections.
If your foreign policy is limited to “don’t elect someone we don’t like, or we’ll cut you off!” then lots of people are going to continue in this same vein, just to give us a giant Fuck You. That’s bad for them, it’s bad for us, and it’s bad for the world, so can we maybe ratchet down the confrontational rhetoric a little bit? Sadly, the Republican idea of “diplomacy” seems more designed to throw Bolton-style red meat to the partisans back home than to actually accomplish anything productive in the world community.
I said twice above that I’m not in favor of doing anything for Hamas until they show that they’re willing to behave as a civilized government, and I mean that. If they want to engage in state-sponsored terrorism, I have no problem if they end up like the Taliban. But they need to at least be given the chance to get it right, and it’s simply not in our best interests to back them into a corner where they look like wimps to their own people if they give in.
skip
We never gave the Palestinians jack anyway, and what little we did give had many strings attached. Israel–our largest recipient-has no such restraints.
The Palestinians were not permitted, for example, to spy on us with our own money, nor were they allowed to secretly sell our secrets to the Chinese.
What did Rouseau say? Every Frenchman, rich or poor, has an equal right to sleep under the Point Noeuf.
skip
We never gave the Palestinians jack anyway, and what little we did give had many strings attached. Israel–our largest recipient-has no such restraints.
The Palestinians were not permitted, for example, to spy on us with our own money, nor were they allowed to secretly sell our secrets to the Chinese.
What did Rouseau say? Every Frenchman, rich or poor, has an equal right to sleep under the Point Noeuf.
Stormy70
They want the destruction of Israel. How is this not choosing war? The Pals know what Hamas is, and they chose this terrorist group to govern them. Time to face the piper, Hamas. I can here the panic from here. Sweet. Hamas either transforms itself, or it will get the war it always wanted. They already want to raise a Hamas army. I say raise it, then the Israelis can slaughter them like pigs. No more hiding behind women and children, Hamas scum. I am not a fan of a terrorist group that shoots Jewish three year olds in the head as a policy platform.
Theseus
Hamas says. They voted for a party that advocates the destruction of Israel. I dunno about you but that seems about as clearcut as you can get. Where do you see the nuance?
Agreed. What we have now is greater clarity. It’s gonna be a lot harder for people to make excuses for the Palestinians and pretend that all they really want is peace. That clearly is not true and, sadly, many who have been saying that for years, that there really is no partner for peace, have been vindicated.
Sorry, I’m afraid I don’t understand the question. Most Israelis would choose peace in a heartbeat, if they thought that there was someone they could genuinely negotiate with. There isn’t.
What confrontational rthetoric? They voted for a party that advocates the destruction of another people. We are supposed to what, reward them for that. Are you kidding? If a country is following a course of action that the US deems is hostile to their own national interests, then what, the US is supposed to shut up about it and put a big smile on their face. People can vote for whomever they want, but they have to realize that their votes have consequences, sometimes not only on the course their own country will take but how the rest of the world will be forced to react and/or respond to their decisions. Choices have consequences. If the Palestinians want to commit suicide, you know what, it’s their prerogative. That doesn’t mean they have to take everyone down with them.
And the Democratic idea of “diplomacy” is what, pray tell? Let the UN or the “international community” whatever the hell that means, handle it.
Andrew J. Lazarus
The Israel National News is not a national news organization. It’s a dodgy, deliberate mistranslation of Israel Nationalist News, as in, a voice of the Settler Movement.
The worse news is that, although I believe the linking of the Israeli flag’s stripes to the Nile and Euphrates is an anti-Semitic canard, the idea that Israel’s natural extent is precisely that region is indeed a touchstone of the Israeli extreme right. (Since the INN is itself on the extreme right, ignorance does does explain their failure to mention this.)
I read a pre-Internet interview with Livnat’s father, one of the rightwing political leaders of the founding generation, and he said pretty much the same thing, minus the messianic overtones. Indeed, the anthem of the Herut Party, a precursor to the Likud, referred to “both sides of the Jordan”.