Rumors of my demise have been greatly overstated. For whatever reason, my ability to log into the site died right after the game. I finally gave up after a few hours and just sat back and watched the post-game coverage.
Well- I feel great. Glad for the Rooney’s, glad for Cowher, glad for Bettis, but glad for a lot of other people- other veterans who have been overshadowed by the Bettis coverage. Folks like Willie Williams and Darren Perry, who were with the ’95 SB team. Mike Logan (a WVU alum) who has been the consumate team player and unselfish stand-in and special teams player for years. Jeff Hartings, who has been in the league for a while, and Alan Faneca, who has been the best player on that line for years. Kimo von Oelhoffen and and Travios Kirschke and James Farrior and Mike Logan, who have all played for almost a decade. And most of all, this means more to Pittsburgh than it does to Seattle.
As to the game itself, I feel like the Steelers didn’t so much win as the Seahawks lost, and there were some bs calls that went against the Seahawks. Specifically, the holding call and the low block against Hasselbeck. Those were huge for the Steelers, and if I were a Seattle fan I would have been in full blown cardiac arrest. I think those two were clearly bad calls, although when it happened in real time, I was screaming “HOLDING! HOLDING! HOLDING G– D—-t!” at the top of my lungs, so the refs aren’t the only ones who felt it was holding initially.
Others that the Seahawks fans are complaining about are not so clear- the pass interference in the endzone was one of those calls that could have been a no-call, but I think he clearly did, by rule, commit the f0ul. Wide Receivers and Seattle fans will say it was not, Steeler fans and defensive players will say it was a penalty. That is just how the game goes. After an illegal formation call two weeks ago vs. the Broncos with 15 second left in the half, the Steelers had a TD brought back. Their response- to score again.
Additionally, I think it was pretty clear that Ben did score on his one yard run. I was watching on a wide screen in HD, and the ball pretty clearly broke the plane when he was airborne, and he was dragged backwards. That is a touchdown- if the nose of the ball goes one millimeter over the plane, it is a TD. It doesn’t matter what he did on the ground- that little awkward fumble/scramble to get the ball over the line- as he was down by contact then and had already, IMHO, been over the line.
At any rate, those two bad calls ( the holding and the Hasselbeck block) surely had an impact on the game, and I can understand how Seahawks fans could feel justifiably angry, but that isn’t what lost the game for them. If the Steelers had lost to the Colts because of the refs, that would have been a crime, but the Seahawks did not lose this game because of the refs. If they want to be mad, they can be mad at Jerramy Stevens for dropping almost everything that was thrown at him. Or they can be mad at the coaching staff for not feeding the ball to Alexander more (he had a very quiet 90 yards on 20 carries). They can be mad at their punter for failing to ever pin the Steelers inside the 20. Their kicker missed two field goals. They gave up a 75 yard TD run and let the Steelers convert on 3rd and a mile (ok- 3rd and 28- close enough). They can be mad that they failed to convert on five of their last six 3rd down plays.
They can be mad at themselves for the worst clock management I have ever seen at the end of not only the first half, but the second half, when it mattered the most. They can be mad at the defense, who with 6 minutes left in the game and when EVERYONE ON THE PLANET knew that the Steelers were going to run Jerome Bettis, managed to give up a key first down and let the Steelers burn four minutes off the clock. So while some of those calls were bad and would have infuriated me had they happened to the Steelers, that didn’t cost them the game. They cost themselves the game.
That being said, the Seahawks have a lot to be proud of- Matt Hasselbeck was probably the best football player on the field, and Big Ben had a really poor outing statistics wise. He did manage to make the big plays when they needed them, though, and he was not the only member of the offense who was out of sync. Just a very unconvincing performance by the offense, particularly after the way they performed in the playoff run. I expected more.
What does this all mean? First, both teams have strong cores to build upon, and I would not be surprised to see both of them make deep runs into the playoffs next year. If Seattle didn’t have your respect before this season, I think they earned it, and I think they outplayed the Steelers for most of the game, save for a few big plays. I never underestimated the Seahawks (partially because I think the Steelers are going to lose every game before the game- underestimating opponents is not something I do), but they were better than I thought, particularly on defense.
Second, this win sealed the deal for the Hall of Fame for Bill Cowher, and made it very likely that if Hines Ward throws up 4-6 more seasons like the past few, he will likely gain entrance to the HoF. No more will we hear that Cowher is a choker.
Third, Jerome gets to go out on top, and that in itself is something huge. Not very often do players get to go out on their own terms, with either fate or ownership making life difficult. Jerome got the storybook ending, and every one of his teammates, who to a man love him, shared it with him.
Finally, Ben is in his second season, and with the crappiest game ever played by a winning QB in the Super Bowl, he is still the youngest QB to ever win. This will be another great learning experience for Ben, who is only going to get better.
So those are my thoughts. It was an ugly win, and I feel bad for the Seahawks and their fans- those two calls were unfair- but I think the Steelers won fair and square. Regardless, the Steelers are the Super Bowl Champions, and I am thrilled.
Steve
Worse than Neil O’Donnell? :)
Congrats, John.
Louise
Well said, John. I’m most happy for Bill C., and glad that an owner who supported a coach when others would have given up was rewarded. Plus…the Bus!! So happy for him, too.
Blue Neponset
Congratulations John.
Having said that, I have to now say that last night’s game looked more like a game between two non-playoff teams on the last week of the regular season than a Super Bowl game. It was really painful to watch.
Houstonboy
Congrats John
Go Oilers!
Slide
Yawn
Lines
I think the pushoff Offensive Pass Interference call was made because it occurred within 2 feet of a ref. Can you imagine the calls for his head if he hadn’t called that? Irvin, while the absolute WORST wide receiver for doing those kinds of push offs, usually had the brains to not do it in total plain sight.
Frank
I’m happy for John and Steeler Nation today, but that’s as far as the pleasantries go. That was just about the worst championship game I’ve ever seen, and if somebody can come up with something worse, please do and I shall stand corrected. Considering the poor level of play and the startling incompetence of the officials, by the second quarter I was hoping there was some way they could get both teams off the field and get Texas and USC out there for the rematch. I wonder if this is a result of parity the NFL’s salary was designed to create. Was more like mediocrity out there.
But again, I’m happy for John.
CaseyL
There were other BS calls besides the personal foul call on Hasselbeck, the holding call that broke the 4th Qtr drive, and the “incomplete-out of bounds” TD reception that was actually a complete, in-bounds TD reception, but those were the most spirit-breaking.
I agree with John that Stevens was godawful, at least of one those field goals should have been nailed, and the time management was (how to put this) criminally stupid.
But I’m not sure how you’re supposed to “overcome bad officiating and win anyway” when it’s the officiating that keeps nullifying your scores and calling back your scoring drives. This isn’t just my opinion, or just Seattle’s opinion, or just the NFC opinion: round-ups of reactions show people from all walks of life (*G*)agreeing the offiating of this game simply gave it to the Steelers.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Congrats John.
A great round up too. Do you plan on going to the parade?
Davebo
Is it too late to take back the TV? No way he made the end zone. Not even close.
One of those times when you wonder why we bother with instant replay.
The Disenfranchised Voter
As for the officiating, epsn.com has a poll up…
The results are interesting to say the least.
ChrisS
Absolutely agree with everything. And I’m not even a Steelers fan.
Jeramy Stevens should be beaten with fish down at Pike Market when he gets back to Seattle. And if I’ve got the NFL MVP on my side of the ball, he should be getting 35 carries in the big game.
Lines
In other news, 89.9% of all statistics are made up on the spot to support the personal views of the speaker.
Bruce in Alta California
I am always so amazed that otherwise intelligent folks are obsessed by modern-day gladiators. Who was it that said something about sports being the opiate of the masses????
Nongeophysical Dennis
Congrats John,
It was an ugly win, but a good game. I’m a Vikings fan (so I had minimal rooting interst in either team) but the back and forth kept me interested until deep into the 4th quarter.
And while I hate all non-Vikings teams and coaches (so yeah, I hate Bill Cowher in a sports-fan kind of way) you pretty much have to admit that Bill Cowher is clearly the best coach in the NFL today. I totally concur on your HoF assessment.
Tequila
I think it was Che. Because the only thing keeping the Revolution from coming is the NFL.
kenB
No way he made the end zone. Not even close.
Maybe your TV has better resolution than mine (wouldn’t be surprising), but the first thing I said when I saw the replay was, “no way they’re going to overrule it”. If the ref had called it as no TD, I bet they would’ve held that up as well.
Anyway, even with no TD on that play, odds are they would’ve gotten in on 4th-and-millimeters.
zzyzx
I appreciate that you at least understand our pain. If we had won due to the trick play and long run being called back, I’d still be wooting and hollering, but I’d feel for my friends who are Steelers fans.
Oh well. That was probably the one shot for Seattle to win a championship in the next two decades. What a shock that it didn’t happen.
AkaDad
As a Patriots fan, I could’t root for the Steelers.
Before they had beat the Patriots in the AFC Championship game, a few years back, the Steelers made hotel reservations, for the Super Bowl. I never will forgive the arrogance of that. I actually used to like Bill Cower, until he disrespected the Pats and their fans, like that.
Having said all that, I’m not happy the Steelers won, but I’m happy for you, John.
Vladi G
That was actually one of the few calls they got right.
The holding call was total BS, and the only reason he even came close to holding is because the Steeler guy was about 2 yards across the line of scrimmage when the ball snapped, TWICE IN A ROW!
When you have to take about 5 paragraphs of a post explaining away the officiating, you know there was really, really crappy officiating.
John Cole
I don’t know where this is coming from, either. I thought that was called right, and if it was not, why were your coaches smoking crack and not reviewing it. You, after all, had the ball, time-outs, and a stopped clock due to incompletion.
That was a good call.
Sam
Umm, couldn’t somebody make an awfully good argument that Belichick is by far the best coach in football? Or does that title simply switch from winner to winner?
zzyzx
I thought the OOB call was correct too, but at the same time with under 2 minutes, it couldn’t be reviewed by us.
Steve
That’s really outrageous, that they should try to make sure they have enough hotel space in the event they get there. Out of sheer respect, they should wait until the last minute.
I personally make lots of airline and hotel reservations for work that I may or may not end up keeping. That’s why God made refundable reservations. I never realized up until now that a reservation could disrespect anyone.
Seriously, any football organization is surely making logistical arrangements for a potential Super Bowl appearance long before they clinch a berth.
Jill
John…the guy’s name is HasslebEck.
Brian
It was prety clear by halftime that the game was fixed. Everything from the commentary in the booth to the calls on the field were slanted toward the Steelers. It would have been a much better game had the officials allowed the game to be played. Because they didn’t, we were blessed with a dud of a game, and a tainted win for the Steelers.
Mean Gene
I’m emotionally exhausted. It wasn’t a pretty win, but winning ugly is a Steeler tradition. The calls went our way but not so many as people seem to think. The personal foul on Hasselback was a joke and I’d like to see the holding again, because I too was screaming when I saw Locklear horse-collaring Haggans (who wasn’t offside, he was lined up off the ball). But both teams didn’t play well and the Steelers made 3 huge plays to Seattle’s none. And that was the game.
Big Ben played pretty bloody awful, that interception brought back flashbacks of last year’s New England game. And apparently he was noticably upset after the game because he played so poorly. But look at some of the plays he made. The play he made on 3rd and 28 where he floated along the line of scrimmage was extraordinary. He scored the touchdown. He threw a key block on Randel El’s beautiful pass. And he made two huge, HUGE first downs that chewed up the clock. The last one came on what I insist was a broken play, he turned, Bettis wasn’t where he expected, and he rolled out and ran for the first. Brilliant play. How often does a young player get to have a valuable learning experience WHILE WINNING THE SUPER BOWL?
I’m so happy for Bettis. For Cowher. For Dan Rooney. For all the players. For the city. We won the Super Bowl.
Mac Buckets
Congrats, John, and I’m happy for Bettis and Steelers Nation, who will cherish this more that the ‘Hawks fans would have, but…
For neutral football fans, this was without doubt the Worst Game Ever, and a lot of us are pissed about it today. It gave credence to our worst fears and suspicions, and ruined this season for me. I don’t see how you can look at that trophy without realizing that it was an absolute gift. For someone who got so upset at Troy’s INT against the Colts, you must realize that this game looks ten times as fixed to the neutral fan.
Like Michael Irvin and Steve Young said, if it was offensive interference on Jackson, then it was illegal contact on Pittsburgh first, which is why Jackson had to push off. Evidently, Jackson did score because his second foot hit the pylon, but the refs didn’t even review a possible TD catch! The iffy holding call negated a sure Seattle TD. Ben probably didn’t break the plane, or the side judge wouldn’t have waited so long to call it. There was a no-call for an obvious delay of game when Ben called Time Out just before the fleaflicker.
I truly think the Steelers were the better team all season, but we’ll never know about this game. If even half the calls go the other way, we’re probably talking this AM about how Porter, Troy (who was terrible), and the Steeler’s defense couldn’t stop anybody and gave up over 400 yards, about how Hasselbeck was fantastic while Ben lost the game with the INT, and about how Bettis was a non-factor while Alexander averaged 5 yds/carry and rushed for over 100 (which he would’ve had they been ahead).
So far, a plurality (41%) at ESPN say they’ll remember this game for the one-sided referees, and I’m one of them. The NFL will have some tough questions to answer this week, once the rehashes start.
Mac Buckets
Jill, the guy’s name is HassELbeck! :)
Lines
Evidently I’m in the minority, that while I found the game itself somewhat ugly and a culmination of an ugly season, I found the calling to be semi-ok compared to some of the early post-season games where the outcome was decided by a few bad calls.
Given the tremendous 3rd down differential in favor of Pittsburg, there is no doubt in my mind that they won pretty fairly and that this over-reaction to the officiating will blow over fairly quickly.
Mac Buckets
It was inside two minutes, so only the refs can call for a review.
Apparently, this in/out-of-bounds rule is known as the Michael Vick Rule (after a famous instance this year), and it states that if your foot hits the pylon, that foot is in bounds. Jackson’s second foot clearly kicked the pylon before it landed out-of-bounds, so it should’ve been a TD.
It should’ve at least been reviewed, but the refs didn’t seem interested in reversing a possible TD catch that would’ve put Seattle ahead before the half…for some reason. It’s not like it was important, I guess.
diddy
On the out-of-bounds non-TD: can someone explain the rule regarding the pylon? I understand that you have to get two feet (or some other body part) inbounds for the thing to be a catch at all, but is the pylon considered part of the playing field or just not out-of-bounds?
If the pylon is considered part of the field, then that should have been a TD because his second foot touched the pylon and thus part of the field. But if the pylon is just not out, then he didn’t get that second foot on the ground anywhere and the call was correct.
That said, Hasselbeck should have thrown it half a step closer in and made it a non-issue. There would be no whining about close calls if Seattle had been good enough to keep it from getting close.
Sam Hutcheson
Evidently, Jackson did score because his second foot hit the pylon
By rule, that should have been a touchdown. He had established possession of the ball and a portion of his body broke the plane (actually kicking the pylon). TD, by rule. It’s similar to a play earlier in the season where Mike Vick dove from the three and waved his non-ball hand over the pylon. That too, was a touchdown.
Pittsburgh was awarded that game. If I were a Steeler fan I’d be embarrassed to claim that as a “championship.”
John Cole
The only call that was blatantly wrong in this game was the block on Hasselbeck. To pretend that the others were as bad as the Polamalu int is absurd.
John Cole
Nonsense.
Capriccio
From the Sports Guy over at ESPN’s page 2:
“7:53 — Apparently Donovan McNabb was the guest offensive coordinator for Seattle’s two-minute drill. First, D-Jack caught a 40-yard pass for a TD, only his right foot was out of bounds …That was followed by Seattle handing off to Alexander with 48 seconds left … Hasselbeck wasting 29 seconds (he did everything but start thumbing through “My Pet Goat”) before the Steelers became so confused, THEY called a timeout …”
Sam Hutcheson
The only call that was blatantly wrong in this game was the block on Hasselbeck. To pretend that the others were as bad as the Polamalu int is absurd.
John, no offense, but you have absolutely no credibility on this issue. You’re clearly a Steelers partisan, and it shows on all of the football threads. The Seahawks had two touchdowns taken away from them, and a first and goal on the 2 taken away that would have almost certainly have been a third TD. 21 points, John. Make it 25 if you think PA kicks the field goal on 4th and inches after the Roethlesberger is stuffed on 3rd and goal.
John Cole
As to the Michael vick Rule- does it not matter which foot is out of bounds when? The way I understand it, if his right foot is out of bounds, and then he swings the left foot to hit the pylon, he is out of bounds.
If he hits the pylon with his left foot, and then his right foot goes out, it would be a TD.
Mac Buckets
There’s a discussion of this rule on my local sportsradio station right now. Maybe the guys on ESPN and the SBXL broadcast were on crack. Some are disputing the reading of the rule that I heard last night, saying that the pylon only counts as a boundary for the end zone if you are already established as being inbounds.
Vick apparently dove for the end zone and hit the pylon with his right hand while the ball was in his left hand and clearly out-of-bounds before crossing the plane. The ruling was that since Vick’s right hand hit the flag, then his whole body and the ball were ruled in-bounds.
Well, I don’t see why Jackson’s whole body and the ball would’ve been ruled in-bounds, too, though.
Greeeeeat, another Tuck Rule to figure out.
zzyzx
John – to my mind, it’s not any one call, it’s the pattern of them. Whenever the Seahawks got anything going, a flag got thrown.
Football might have the basketball problem now where the rulebook doesn’t resemble the play on the field and any play can get a flag thrown. If so, the complaining about the officiating is just starting.
CaseyL
Oof. Harsh, man. Harsh but true.
Sam Hutcheson
As to the Michael vick Rule- does it not matter which foot is out of bounds when?
If he has possession and _any portion of his body is breaking the plane of the goal, including the plane extending out from the pylon_ before his foot comes down out of bounds, it is a touchdown.
John Cole
You mean the ones where I was cheering “Go Stillers!” Gee, I guess I should have hid my partisanship better.
They aren’t touchdowns when you are out of bounds, and they are not touchdowns when you push off.
The holding call was BS.
ppGaz
No, Mac, the important thing was that Jerome got to go out “on top.” After all, he is an icon, like Barney the Dinosaur.
Did you see the relentless commercials which featured him drooling over the trophy? Throughout the game. So, the refs were probably feeling his emotions deep in their own souls. Who can blame them for trying to protect his feelings? Who wouldn’t do the same?
Remember, it’s Jerome’s feelings that count here.
In this, the best, and most insane, of all possible worlds.
Okay, is that enough sarcasm? Good, then all I have left is this, which I said last night: Worst-officiated game I have seen in 50 years of being a football fan. By far, no contest.
And I really didn’t care who won.
Sam Hutcheson
Well, I don’t see why Jackson’s whole body and the ball would’ve been ruled in-bounds, too, though.
If he established possession, it was a touchdown. Apparently they ruled that he did not establish possession.
All of this comes back to the fact that the NFL has rules that require a 7 judge panel to deliberate for two weeks before rendering a decision.
John Cole
A.) You didn’t watch the Colts-Steelers game, in which the calls were clearly blown. Here, we are arguing about how people FEEL the calls should have gone on most of them.
B.) You only became a Seahawk fan when it dawned on you that you could possibly bring me pain by taunting me should the Steelers win. Go Cardinals!
zzyzx
“They aren’t touchdowns when you are out of bounds, and they are not touchdowns when you push off.”
If you’re going to talk about the push off, you should also notice the illegal contact before that that forced DJ to push off.
The OoB play I’m not sure about. Jackson got his left foot in and then the right foot hit the pylon before landing out of bounds. As far as I know, that would not be a catch as the pylon is not the ground.
ppGaz
Wrong. See my posts before the game for a summary of my sentiments. My sentiments didn’t change.
I said, mainly, “may the best team win.”
One only knows whether that happened if the officiating is competant. It wasn’t, and we don’t know who the best team was for sure.
zzyzx
“You didn’t watch the Colts-Steelers game, in which the calls were clearly blown. ”
Like the safety that you were so mad about when Manning was tackled with the ball out of the end zone? ;)
ppGaz
PS- The Cardinals suck.
I’m a Forty Niner fan by nature. Right now, they suck too.
John Cole
zzyzx- I felt that could have been a safety. The Polamalu INT was claerly blown, as well as the no call PI on Randle El. And the phantom do-over, in which they did not flag Faneca, but then decided that the Colts were not offside.
zzyzx
Yeah the INT was blown. The do over helped the Steelers as it was a missed false start and the Steelers converted the first. If you’re going to argue a pass interference call though, now you’re where we are on the Jackson TD.
The NFL has a perception problem and they’re going to have to do something about it. I just hope somehow the Seahawks can become a feel good story next year so we might have a chance.
Mac Buckets
They weren’t as bad (nothing could be) — there were just many, many more of them that were plainly bad…and they all went for one side. I’m just talking as a neutral fan who wants to see the best team win on the day — I’m an AFC guy, and I even had money on the Steelers….which I will not return.
What was up with Polamalu last night, anyway? He was the worst player on the field not named Jerramy (who could teach Choking 101).
Sam Hutcheson
They aren’t touchdowns when you are out of bounds, and they are not touchdowns when you push off.
I’ll give you that the Vick Rule play is open to interpretation, but if that was offensive pass interference they might as well tie flags around their waists and see if the cheerleaders want to play along for fun.
John Cole
Umm- a bad ankle?
Sam Hutcheson
You didn’t watch the Colts-Steelers game…
Wow, you really are a Republican. I didn’t think someone could work the “bug Clinton was worse” defense into a football thread…
Also, where is all of the “I just want them to get it right” highbrow from that Colts-Steeler thread? Does it not matter so much that they get it wrong, repeatedly, if it benefits your favorite team?
Mac Buckets
Well, that’s an awful call, then. It should’ve at least been reviewed, right? Are we all agreed there should’ve been a review of what was up to that point the biggest play of the Super Bowl?
Lines
When Logan went out in the first quarter, it was mentioned that Palomalu would have to play the whole game, as there was no one else to play that position.
zzyzx
“I care about the game, and would be just as livid if this happened to another team, or had it caused us to lose the game.
It needs to be fixed. Someone who may not care as much about the NFL may not know where I am coming from, but I am sure there are others who do.”
Sam Hutcheson
Are we all agreed there should’ve been a review of what was up to that point the biggest play of the Super Bowl?
I mentioned at the time that they should take a second look at that play, yes. I don’t know how it would have played out. Considering the Roethlesberger “touchdown” review I doubt they would have overturned the out of bounds call. I don’t know if kicking the pylon equals “getting the second foot down” and thus establishes possession, so I’m left repeating what watching Mike Vick regularly has taught me: if he has possession and any part of his body breaks the plane, even if the ball is way out of bounds and doesn’t even think about breaking the plane, it is a touchdown.
John Cole
You must really be a Democrat then because losing and then whining incessantly about it appears to be right out of the DNC playbook. Lemme guess- Bush stole 2004, too? The officianting was CLEARLY worse in the Colts/Steelers game.
I do just want them to get it right, and I wish they hadn’t blown the holding call and the call on hasselbeck’s tackle.
The other calls I don’t think they got wrong- the ball crossed the line in the Ben TD, they got the call right on Hadsselbeck’s down by contact non-fumble in the 4th, and I thought Jackson was out of bounds.
The pass interference call was a legit call, and while some of you might not like it, it is one of those calls that could go either way- just like the Jerramy Stephens fumble that was not called (when he caught the ball down the sideline and was rocked by Hope, and got hit as his second foot was hitting the ground). That could just as easily have gone the other way.
So I do want them to get it right- I am just not going o sit here and listen to you whine about things that we just disagree. Just because you think something is fact does not make it so, so quit being a nasty prick about things.
KC
I thought there was some poor officiating and was generally disgusted by it. That said, John’s right about the Seahawks, they just couldn’t close the deal when they had the opportunity. Time after time they dropped the ball or it was just thrown to the sky. And their clock management was atrocious. I’ve never seen anyone play the last minute of a quarter as poorly as they played the end of the 2nd quarter yesterday.
Mac Buckets
He was running OK, just often in the wrong direction.
zzyzx
I’ve never heard of the kicking the pylon rule before (as opposed to Vick’s stuff about his arm going down inside the pylon). If that’s true, they should have reviewed it, but if it’s not, the right foot was clearly out of bounds, so there wouldn’t have been much need to do that.
zzyzx
But John, if you can accept that the refs might have been influenced to some degree by the idea of the Colts winning, why is it unreasonable to think that they’d want the team with the history and the larger fanbase to win over the one from the corner of the country that no one had heard of?
Mac Buckets
Actually, that would’ve worked out better for the Seahawks if it had been ruled a fumble, as I recall. Man, that dude choked — I’ve never seen anyone so visibly scared at a Super Bowl. Porter really got to him.
ats
“there were some bs calls that went against the Seahawks. Specifically, the holding call and the low block against Hasselbeck. Those were huge for the Steelers, and if I were a Seattle fan I would have been in full blown cardiac arrest”
Well, wel, there is (some) honor among thieves.
Mac Buckets
Some are spelling it “Stealers” this morning, but that’s unfair. The team just played ball — they didn’t throw the flags.
John Cole
Then quit acting like you do know for sure what happened, quit pretending the game was thrown, and quit saying things like this:
Jeebus. I would rather deal with Seahawks fans, who at least are in pain and have a reason to be this annoying.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Sam, John only brought up the Steelers Colts game in response to ppGaz saying last nights game contained the worst officiating he had ever seen. I think John bringing up a game that he thought contained worse officiating is not only completely reasonable, but expected.
With that said, I agree with ppGaz that last night’s game had the worst officiating I have ever seen, but then again I didn’t watch that Steelers-Colts game.
That’s still no excuse fore horrible officiating though.
zzyzx
For the record, Pittsburgh does deserve incredible amounts of credit for the big three plays – the 3rd and 28, the long run, and the trick play touchdown. Those were not influenced by the officiating at all and they’ll haunt my nightmares (SO close to stopping the two passes) for months.
Sam Hutcheson
You must really be a Democrat then because losing and then whining incessantly about it appears to be right out of the DNC playbook.
To carry this analogy to (one hopes) it’s logical end, it’s not surprising to me that you think someone who is not on your side is clearly on the other. Much like the partisan bangups between Dems and Republicans, I had no horse in this race. I was rooting for Carolina if I was rooting for anyone in this NFL postseason. You want to see me commenting on a game I have an actual rooting interest in, go back to the Sugar Bowl thread. That’s me when I’m being partisan. Thing is, I don’t try to pretend to be rational and objective in those situations where I’m clearly not.
Sam Hutcheson
Engagine in rational debate is annoying, John? Interesting.
John Cole
You aren’t debating, Sam. You are engaging in sophistry. You state one thing, and then a few posts later, admit you don’t know for sure what you have asserted previously. All the while, you are insulting me for refuting what you now admit you don’t know what the hell you were talking about.
That isn’t debate. That is trolling.
t. jasper parnell
This game was badly officiated, e.g., the non-call on the Horsecollar; however, more importantly the Seahawks played extraordinarily badly, i.e., the two minute or so drill and the general shell-shocked nature of everything the Seahawks did. They looked like GB in the second SuperBowl, lack luster, dull, and rudderless. For that, I submit, one can blame Holmgren. But in truth both the Seahawks and the Steelrs played extraordinarily ugly, stupid, and ultimately dull games.
However, the various claims that the game was fixed or so, are weird and worrying. The recourse to conspiracy to explain the games overarching and undeniable badness ignores, what I think to be one the worlds least appreciated natural law, 90 percent of everything is crap (F. Pohl). In short, the refs suck because 90% of all refs suck as a matter of natural law. It is a shame that the game was lousy, on all three sides of the ball, but crooked refs? it seems less than likely.
Sam Hutcheson
I am clearly not trolling anyone in this thread, John. To think as much indicates, at least on this topic, a well developed persecution complex or something. There was a sidebar in the thread where we dicussed the Vick rule, at which point I stated a couple of times what I *know*: If he established possession, that was a touchdown. I then pointed out that I did not know for certain whether kicking the pylon counts as the second foot in bounds. If it does, again, that’s a touchdown. If it doesn’t, it probably isn’t as (as I recall the play) he didn’t get the second foot down otherwise.
Furthermore, I had already established in a comment directly to you that the out-of-bounds play was open to interpretation. The QB sneak TD was weak, but couldn’t have been overturned on replay after the line judge changed his mind 3/4s of the way to spot the ball. The holding was a joke, the unnecess. roughness egregiously bad, and the PI on the first Seahawk touchdown a call that would be embarrassing in intramural flag football.
Disagreeing with you doesn’t equal trolling.
Mac Buckets
I don’t get the “Seattle played terrible” meme this morning. They outgained the Steelers by 60 yards, even without the 50 or so lost yards due to dicey calls. They turned the ball over one less time that Pittsburgh. If Jerramy Stevens had blown out his knee in warmups, there wouldn’t have been any dropped passes. Seattle’s only atrocious play was clock management with Hasselbeck’s audible at the half, and it probably only made their field goal attempt longer.
ppGaz
Steelers-Colts was certainly not a training film for how to get close, critical calls right.
But for overall effect on the outcome of a game, and for consistent bad-ness from beginning to end, I haven’t seen anything to beat Super Bowl XL.
You expect a close call or two. You expect some controversy. You don’t expect a series of team-killers against the same time from the beginning of the game to the end, one after the other.
I’ll concede this point: Either of the two games can serve as good examples of how easily lousy officiating can kill the appearance of integrity in the game.
I don’t know how to run a football league so I can’t tell you how to fix this. But I’d guess that the solution involves better selection and training of refs.
John Cole
Sam- you stated as fact that they had 21 pts stolen from them, maybe 25, and then insulted me, and then stated well, maybe, just maybe, you don’ know what you are talking about.
That isn’t debate.
ppGaz
* against the same team *
zzyzx
t jasper – I don’t think any Hawks fan blames the game solely on the refs. If Stevens catches a few passes, if the defender (I forget who it was) doesn’t slip right before tackling Roethlisberger on the 3rd and 28, if Jackson ran his routes just a few feet further inbounds, if the long field goals that just missed had been good, if…
It’s never really fun to be a Seattle sports fan, is it?
What fuels the suspicions, though, were that all of the calls favored the same team. If, say, the offensive PI wasn’t called, if there were a ticky tack holding call on the 3rd and 28 and the trick play, and if a new rule were just made up on the spot to give the Seahawks another 15 yards on a runback, I suspect there would be a lot more anger here about the calls.
I don’t think anyone threw the game intentionally. I do suspect that the refs were swayed to some degree by the whole “Pittsburgh vs some team in the middle of nowhere” mentality around this game.
Mac Buckets
Yes, Holmgren might be the most overrated coach in history (Typical, set-your-watch-by-it Holmgren: The MVP of the league averaged almost 5yds/carry and only touched it 20 times. Because the passing game makes the coach look smarter, you know!). The thought of him with two rings is one reason I am happy the Steelers won… just not this way.
Tequila
I’ll submit that the Pittsburgh D did NOT play poorly. Yes, they gave Seattle the dink-dunk crap all over the field. But Seattle had nothing going past the 35-yard line. Hasselbeck and Holmgren bear equal blame for this. Stevens only dropped three balls, two of which happened while he was getting absolutely jacked by Steeler DBs (I’m thinking of his fumble in the first quarter that got ruled an incomplete and the end of the game). I really can’t blame him that much. Hasselbeck and the Seattle WRs could not go downfield effectively, and I think this was purposeful on the part of LeBeau’s defensive scheme, which gave up the short stuff in order to shut out the big play.
Also, except for Alexander’s single 20+ yard run, he had a below-4.0 ypc average. I think it’s safe to say that Pittsburgh contained the so-called NFL MVP pretty well.
Sam Hutcheson
That isn’t debate.
Actually, it is. Debate isn’t the metered statements of facts all in a row. It’s open dialogue between people willing to think through some event or logic in order to further their mutual understanding of said. I didn’t open my comments in this thread referring to the out of bounds play, because aside from the thought that they should review it, I didn’t really think it through during the game. During the course of this thread, while I was engaging in a sidebar on whether or not the play was a TD or not, I responded to you about the points lost, and I included the out of bounds play in the tally. It’s part of living dialogue that those sorts of merges happen. I then rounded back to the idea that, if the pylon doesn’t count as second foot down, it probably wasn’t a TD. Regardless, it should have been reviewed, probably.
All of which is to say, no John, I’m not trolling, I’m debating. If I were doing nothing but trolling I’d point out (correctly, mind you) that if the tables were turned and the EXACT SAME CALLS had gone against Pittsburgh, you would be livid, cursing and accusing the league of intentionlly throwing the game just to get Peyton Alexander his ring.
Sam Hutcheson
Hmmm. Striketrhough tags don’t seem to work here. “Peyton” is supposed to be marked through, for the record…
John Cole
Groan. When you put forth statements as fact and then later state that maybe they were not fact, that is not debating. That is sophistry. That is an attempt to ‘win’ an argument. It is not an honest debate.
And your little ‘You must be a republican” BS, because I pointed out an instance where there really was really bad officiating, is not debate either. It is called an insult.
Two of the calls, I would agree and have stated as much. The PI, I would be pissed, but it was a call that can stand on its own- even if you don’t like it.
And Ben’s TD was clean and legit. The ball crossed the plane when he was in the air.
Jim Henley
One thing Pittsburgh did very well is *tackle*. They didn’t let any of those dumpoff passes break for big yardage. Hence Seattle’s net yards per pass of 5.0 – that’s not a good day.
The most surprising stat to me is that, for the game, Pittsburgh was 8-15 on third down, which beat Seattle’s 5-17/6-19 (counting fourth downs) by quite a bit. Since Pittsburgh went three and out on their first three series, that means they finished the game 8-12 on third down.
Mac Buckets
Weeeeeeeeell, if every time you pass the ball inside the 20, it gets called back by the refs, it sure makes it look like you didn’t move the ball well in the red zone.
Dude is 6’7″, 265. If he can’t handle getting hit in pads by a guy 5’11” 195, he should find another line of work. Going 3-for-6 is good in baseball…maybe he should try out for the Mariners!
Holmgren contained the MVP, as he is wont to do. Pittsburgh’s run D was ineffective. Sorry, but you can’t dismiss a 20-yd run like that (trust me, Seattle’s D would love to dismiss big plays today). MVPs make big plays the more they touch the ball. Plus, even 3.9yds/carry is still a first down every three carries, right? If Alexander got the ball ten more times, and Hasselbeck had thrown it ten less, I think Seattle is closer in that game — it doesn’t give the refs as much leeway for strange calls, either.
Davebo
In the end I guess it’s a good thing the Steelers were awarded the victory.
Having 5 championships with only two containing the * is better than only having one championship and it having an *.
In the end the Steelers have 3 great championships, followed by 79 and 05 with the “but” *.
Jim Henley
Yes. Seattle was never down by more than 11 points. At that spread, it’s inexcusable that the quarterback threw almost 50 times.
joe
Every World Series game was more exciting than the Super Bowl. Every one, and there were four of them. Go back to any years World Series and most games are better played and more exciting than the Super Bowl. Of course, that’s probably because baseball is a better game.
Joe
The Disenfranchised Voter
I don’t think you’ll ever hear me say these words on this blog again:
Mac’s got a point…
MAX HATS
This picture about sums it up:
February 5th, 2006
Brian
From what I saw, Seattle lost the game, but they can very legitimately claim that they were the victims of bad calls. The touchdown for Pittsburgh was, at best, questionable – the line judge didn’t signal until well after Ben had hit the ground, but once the call was made it was hard to overturn. The holding call and illegal block on Seattle were simply awful – the block one especially, since how do you illegally hit a ball carrier beneath the face mask?
However, Seattle also suffered a lot of injuries that made backups play, and it nailed them on the Hines Ward TD on a trick play – the new guy bit on the run. And Seattle also choked many times – if the FG kicker had hit the two he missed, the Steelers may not have been able to run the ball consistently in the last few minutes since they were less than a score up. Add to that dropped balls, badly thrown balls, and time management errors…
The Seahawks lost the game themselves…but the refs certainly did their part to make it harder.
John Cole
I simply do not understand the illegl block call- although I do rememberthe Steelers were victimized with those penalties twice this year. I believe hartings had it called against him, and I think Randle El had it called against him.
I forget who jad it called against the for sure, but I know hartings had it called against him.
ppGaz
I’m not conceding even the fictional Steelers’ touchdown. No replay that I saw last night showed the ball breaking the plane. The best I could see was that we might assume the ball broke the plane based on where we thought the ball was.
But more to the point, as I said at the time it happened, there was no way in hell that a ref on the field could have seen that ball break the plane. What you had was a situation where anyone on the field who wanted the ball the break the plane could argue that it did, and anyone on the field who didn’t want it to could argue that it didn’t.
That’s not a touchdown.
The larger point is that within a few minutes’ playing time, a SEA touchdown was taken off the board on a questionable call, and a PITT td was put up on the board on a questionable call. That’s 14 points in one direction on questionable calls.
That’s not a Super Bowl. I don’t know what you call it, but the game is supposed to be decided by players and plays, not by referees. If something isn’t there in a way that any reasonable person can see that it is, then don’t fucking call it. Period. It’s a football game, not shuffleboard.
Mac Buckets
Four heartpounding games. Too bad the wrong team won all four! (Baby steps, Astros…baby steps…)
The Disenfranchised Voter
Max Hats–
That picture is abosolutely hilarious. The “this is tasteless and offensive” reply was pretty darn funny too.
Thank you for linking to that.
zzyzx
Damnit.
I was much happier when I didn’t see this link. The DJ pass at the end of the half was a touchdown and the refs should have reviewed it.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/clayton_john/1354105.html
That clearly happened.
zzyzx
“That clearly happened” means that I watched it on my TiVo when I heard that that might be the rule, and he clearly had one foot in and the other hit the pylon.
Some days you just don’t get any breaks; why couldn’t that day have been in week 3?
Jim Henley
I remember the foot hitting the pylon clearly. I figured it was OB because it didn’t come down in bounds. But by rule I was clearly wrong.
Mac Buckets
If they were victimized on that chop-block call, I’ll bet they at least touched the guy they were alleged to have chopped. The ref must’ve thought Hasselbeck had cut the blocker on the way to Taylor (odd, since the blocker didn’t even break stride), but the replay showed he only touched Taylor.
I made a “Steelers refs=Duke basketball refs” joke this morning, and whaddaya know: The NCAA suspended the refs who gifted Duke a one-point OT win over Florida State this weekend and had a meeting with the refs who gave Duke their 2-point win over Boston College in mid-week.
Wonder if the Super Bowl refs will get an invitation to NFL headquarters.
Mac Buckets
You were not alone… but you weren’t being paid to get it right (or was it, paid to get it wrong — cue ominous music).
A travesty it wasn’t even reviewed by the refs, who were the only ones who could’ve called for the review at that point.
zzyzx
Football Outsiders take on the game:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/02/06/ramblings/audibles/3631/
It’s hard when I can’t tell myself I’m overreacting because I’m biased. Worst officiated game ever? Perhaps.
Dave Ruddell
I think on the illegal block call it looked like Hasselbeck came close to going low on the guy running out in front Taylor, but got around him and hit Taylor. Maybe the ref thought he nicked the blocker on the way to Taylor? He clearly didn’t, and it was an awful call, I’m just trying to come up with a scenario that might explain the call.
Capriccio
Invariably these bad calls go for the home team (and the Steelers were definitely that yesterday). The refs are guests in the home city…they’re running into people at restaurants and hotels, etc. joshing them about being good to our guys. They get out there surrounded by 80,000 people urging them to be good to our guys. Most basic human instinct: to be liked. So throw the flag on Jackson in the end zone and show everybody what an all right guy you are. “Getting along” is right up there with incompetence as a serious American malady.
J-Smith
This was not, as claimed above, The Worst Game Ever.
The worst games ever:
XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10
and
XXVII Jan. 31, 1993 Dallas 52, Buffalo 17
Much as I always LOVE seeing Denver get thrashed, and have no feelings about Buffalo one way or another, those weren’t even “games”.
My college roommate was from Rochester NY – after the 1993 debacle, I thought I was going to have to talk him in off the window ledge.
ppGaz
Worst officiated game ever.
Not worst game ever.
Worst game ever? Any of about 100 games played by the Cardinals in the last 15 years.
Halffasthero
John, considering how much your Steelers are under attack now after they won the Super Bowl, it must be hard to feel good about it. Don’t let them get to you with accusations that the Steelers stole that trophy. That they vetted the refs so that their won could get in to make the calls in their favor. None of that is important anymore now that the trophy is in Pittsburg.
The truth is, the officiating may have been lousy, but I was enjoying the beer at Old Chicago too much to notice. What I did see was that Seattle should have never let that game get away and they did. They blew fundamental coverages and let Pittsburg shoot off a huge run. Managed time so
poorly that I thought Denny Green was put in charge. Were dropping passes that were delivered right into their hands. IT was a sad list. For the last game of the year there is no forgiveness and no “next week”.
Did the officiating affect the game? It always does, whether the calls are made correctly or not. The fact is that Seattle lost that game because they simply did not show up. Pittsburg came to play.
Naturally, as a Vikings fan, I hate both teams.
And did you wake up with a hangover?
Ezert
I think people need to remember, when a ball is in the air a defender has as much a right to it as the receiver. If Chris Hope had shoved away the receiver like he was shoved and intercepted the ball, do you not think they would have called that? Would interference not be the right call there too? It’s no different. Neither of them can shove the other guy away.
And Ben did get the ball across, but was shoved back. I also watched it on on big-screen HD. There’s no way that could be overturned
I agree the penalty on Hasselbeck was b.s.
But clearly Steelers won fair and freakin’ square.
ppGaz
No.
a) It WAS lousy, and worse,
b) It was one-sided lousy.
All the rest of your post is just chest-beating.
Bob In Pacifica
I don’t know if I could live with the shame of having the trophy, but knowing that it was ill-gotten.
zzyzx
Oh if it were reversed and the Hawks won through bad calls, I’d feel for John (and some other Steelers fans I know) but I’d sure be at the parade tomorrow.
ppGaz
Hope was out of the play. If Jackson had shoved him TOWARD the ball, he couldn’t have caught it. Jackson was simply doing a scramble and responding to Hope’s hand and arm action. Only one player had a chance to catch the ball, and that was Jackson.
Even at best, it was a chickenshit call, just exactly the kind of call you don’t want in a big game. It was a good throw and catch, and should have been left alone.
“I didn’t even touch him, I don’t think,” Jackson said.
A lot of other people didn’t think so, either. In a different game it wouldn’t have mattered. But it was in this game, and it did matter.
rilkefan
From the FootballOutsiders link above:
What does that mean? Is there an official public rule book and an official secret how-to-interpret-the-rules book?
ppGaz
Like forgetting to pay the officials?
Yes, that team of officials was good. Or at least, consistent.
zzyzx
rilke – yes there is. That’s where the Tuck Rule came from.
KC
Again, I’ll say it, the Seahawks did a rotten job of clock management and screwed up several times. However, ppGaz is absolutely right about the lousy officiating. It almost re-angers me thinking about it.
Ezert
Oh, well, who you gonna believe, Jackson or your own lyin’ eyes?
They were right next to each other. He could have gotten to it or defended him.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Oh come on now, I admit that Jackson touched him but he most certainly did not “push” him away from the ball. That is jut ridiculous.
The Disenfranchised Voter
*just
Specter
Well, The Cowboys sure won alot while George was President, so Arlen is doing his inquiries and does steeler mean steel or stolen?
Ezert
I’ll ask again, if the roles had been reversed and the defender did that to the receiver, would interference have been the right call?
Bob In Pacifica
You know, when you get flagged for trying to tackle the guy with the ball you know that the fix is in. A shame too. They’re going to have to win next year to prove that they’re for real, not just beneficiaries.
I went into Super Bowl morning not sure who I was going to root for until I saw the video about Holmgren’s wife and daughter and their mission to Africa. That trumped The Bus’s imminent retirement for me. But it wasn’t like after a couple of beers I might not have switched to the Steelers if it wasn’t for the embarrassment of the zebras fixing the game. That made the Seahawks underdogs.
I think it was Dan Moldea who wrote that book about gambling in the NFL. I’ll have to track it down.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Well, if we are going accoring to last nights officials, that all depends on who was on defense…
Heh j.k. To be honest, I can’t say. What I can say is that the call was dubious at best. 9 out of 10 times that would not have been called for OPI.
John Cole
Nonsense- 9 times out of 10, you push a guy right in front of the ref in the end zone like that, and it will be called.
Mac Buckets
At least you knew who the better team was after those games, which, after all, is the reason for the whole exercise. At least the guys on those teams decided the winners. Neither of those games ruined the whole season, or made you feel sorry for fans who you couldn’t give a toss about yesterday afternoon. That’s why I say Worst Game Ever. It was a waste of everyone’s time that proved nothing except that refs can and do take over games sometimes.
The Disenfranchised Voter
What you guys call a “push” I call a “love tap”. We have different standards on what constitutes a push.
ppGaz
The reply doesn’t show a push, it shows two guys flailing their arms at each other.
The ABC crew called it a bad call. It was a bad call. It was also a chickenshit call. It was also the kind of call you absolutely don’t want in an important game, and least of all, in a situation where you have to take points off the board. It was a fucking abomination all by itself. But then it got followed by three more hours of the same.
Mac Buckets
And the worst it should’ve been was offsetting penalties, since the defender had illegally contacted Jackson, which is why he shoved off. It should have been 1st-and-10 at Pittsburgh’s 16, not 1st-and-20 at the 26. Big difference.
Ezert
Now you’re just making crap up. Their arms weren’t “flailing” at each other.
Ezert
Now you need to learn the difference between “incidental” and “illegal” contact. No one is saying all contact is illegal.
John Cole
It is PPGAZ, and he is just trying to goad me. Jackson clearly pushed Hope, and 90% of the people are arguing it should not have been called because he only pushed him ‘a little.’
Fine. Since we just get to make up our own rules, I declare that Hasselback was not down by contact and it should have been a fumble. After all, Foote just touched him ‘a little,’ it was before he was actually down, it did not cause him to go down, and Hasselbeck actually took 2+ steps after being ‘touched’ before going down.
Furthermore, since we get to make up our own rules here, apparently, I declare that all touchdowns by Hines Ward are worth 100 pts. Therefore, the Steelers actually won 115-10. This is fun.
ppGaz
Har, as if you need goading.
I’m just trying to find where the ethical limits are for you.
The game was a goddamned officiating travesty, man. So be glad you won, and all, but let’s call a spade a spade.
zzyzx
John – Hope also clearly made contact with Jackson more than 5 yards down the field. If you’re going to be a stickler, shouldn’t that go both ways?
The Disenfranchised Voter
LOL
ppGaz
You know, like you did when your team WON an officiating travesty, a couple weeks ago.
John Cole
Already addressed, zzyzx.
Jeremy
Hey, I’m a Seahawk fan, the reffing sucked, I think most people (including John to his credit) agree on that. I wanted more then anything to win or lose on the field and that didn’t happen.
That said, this isn’t the Steelers fault, they played the game and did enough to win. They are a classy organization and I can’t think of a single player on the team (except maybe Porter) that I don’t like. I’m going to be pissed about the officiating today, and if they issue one of their apologies later it better involve someone getting fired. However, let’s give the Steelers some credit for playing hard (if not that well) and taking advantage of the Seahawks mistakes (I count 4 major ones) and doing what they had to do to win on a day that they were definately not at their best.
Congrats to the Steelers for what it’s worth, and hopefully we’ll get another shot at them next year :-)
ppGaz
Quite true.
Mostly irrelevant, but true.
The Disenfranchised Voter
John if you want this debate to simmer down why not put up a new post?
I mean it’s not as if anything important is going on, like investigations into the NSA program or anything…
Do you know that Gonzalez wasn’t even sworn in? My my, what has happened to honesty from government in this country?
Mac Buckets
I think I know the difference, at least last night.
“Incidental contact” = contact by a Steelers DB
“Illegal contact” = contact by a Seahawks WR
:) Now define “in-bounds” and “out-of-bounds.” :)
Mac Buckets
The only person who should definitely be fired is the replay official who refused to replay what should’ve been Jackson’s TD just before the half. Why is that guy even up there in the booth if either he doesn’t know the pylon rule, or doesn’t feel like the biggest play of the game is important enough to even review, much less overturn?
rilkefan
MacB, good work.
Ezert
I knew you were going to go for that. If you can’t tell the difference between the little bumps that happen between receivers and DB’s, and one of them intentionally putting his hand on the other and shoving, well then there is no point to continue the conversation cause you are unfamiliar with the game or won’t acknowledge the obvious.
J-Smith
You know what’s good about this whole thing?
We’re doing all our venting on this – and other – boards, and not mobbing the field and shooting the refs and torching the place lke they do in Colombia and Palestinia and Pakistan and other third-worldy sorta places like that.
J-Smith
And that brings me to the growing and malign influence of soccer in the US.
What goes with “soccer”? “Soccer riot”, that’s what.
Is that the sort of thing we want here?
zzyzx
You’re right, I did miss that.
However, you sure can’t deny that it was borderline.
Rex
You can come up with whatever mealy-mouthed equivocations to justify why the Steelers deserved to be the beneficiaries of such ill-gotten gains, but they are yours and yours alone.
A majority of the football world agrees that this was handed–no, delivered–to the Steelers. Don’t believe me? Check the polls at ESPN. WV and PA are the only two states that believe the refs got it right.
The fix was obvious to anyone who watched all those commercials with Bettis practically dry-humping the Lombardi Trophy while there was not a Seahawk in sight of the trophy until a token appearance at halftime in a commercial that featured 4 Steelers (including the coach) and 2 Hawks. For reference, the Seahawks are sending seven starters to the Pro Bowl to Pittsburgh’s one. After last night, I have a really hard time believing that there is not fixing in the NFL.
The Seahawks played flat at the end of the two halves but how many times do you have to f**k someone before they lose the glimmer? The Steelers, save the gadget end-around pass and a breakout run, didn’t have it all night. The Hawks had it on multiple occasions and the refs took it away every time.
Mac Buckets
As I predicted this morning (a prediction that was pooh-poohed roundly)….IT BEGINS!
ESPN’s lead at 5pm is “Seattle Stew” about the refs, and several pundits online and TV are using the word “robbed.” This is what people will remember from this game. Pity.
Ezert
Jeez, I was worried someone might not get a little crazy. Thank God for Rex. So it was a conspiracy between league officials, Super Bowl producers for their spots with the trophy, the refs, and of course the ad execs for putting too many Steelers in the “I’m going to Disney World” commercial. No, this sounds all types of realistic. Seriously, stick with the theory.
Also,
Of course this has nothing to do with Seattle having been the no.1 seed to Pittsburgh’s 6. Also has nothing to do with the NFC just generally sucking. I mean, outside of Hasselbeck who was the other good NFC quarterback?
John Cole
I am not sure what you think a polls settles, but as a rabid Steelers fan, I voted on this thing about an hour ago. I think (and voted in the poll) the calls did seem to lean unfairly towards the Steelers, and have said so, to include in this post, so you might want to unwedgie your Seahawks thong when talking to me.
I think the holding call was weak, but I was yelling for it at the time- you know what though, we all know that holding could be called on every play. The low block call was also bad.
But Roethlisberger was over the line on his td in the air, the PI was ticky-tack but one that is going to get called every time 4 feet from the ref (and if you watch, he did have an impact on Hope’s movement and foot positioning), and that is about it.
They got the Hasselback non-fumble right, and the Stephens non-fumble could very well have been called a fumble.
It didn’t decide the game.
The Disenfranchised Voter
Hahaha, dry humping the Trophy. HAHAHA. Someone’s a Seahawks fan. LOL!
Sam Hutcheson
It didn’t decide the game.
You have no objectivity on this topic, and it shows.
ppGaz
Okay, so the official BJ line on the game is:
Yeah, the officiating gwas dicey, but so what? The important thing is that Jerome got his trophy.
{ sniff }
The rest of the world thinks that the game was rigged, although I personally think that the refs are just lousy, and the rules and the training that goes with the rules, are dysfunctional to the point of ruining the game for the fans. Instant replay and unbelievably good camera coverage and image quality has served to mainly expose how bad the implementation of the rules is.
John Cole
Is this another one of your deep debating skills? You make up whatever you want to say, and then simply dismiss any disagreement as ‘biased?’
No, the line is that the refs blew two calls, made a ticky-tack call on the PI, but it didn’t cost the game. Quit putting words in my mouth.
And the rest of the world doesn’t think the game was rigged. You are just making shit up now. Do some people? Sure.
No shit. Some of us have been screaming about officiating for years. It should be better, and I wish it had been so I wouldn’t have to listen to the incessant whining.
What amuses me is you all ask like this is the first time ever the refs have blown a call- it isn’t. What amuses me more is that you have no vested interest in the game, admit that you just think it was bad officiating, but you are willing to fan the fames of conspiracy theories.
Jackass.
Mac Buckets
What about the 7 points Seattle should’ve gotten on Jackson’s pylon-kick? That was the single bigest travesty.
And every single analyst on ESPN this evening said the offensive interference call was bogus.
Rex
They’re briefs, dude. With a big old ‘Hawk-beak on the front to cradle my venti-sized package!
ppGaz
Revised official BJ line:
You’re all full of shit, except where you agree with something I already said, in which case, I get credit for being righter than you are.
So there!
And besides, what really counts is, Jerome {sniff} got his trophy.
Sstarr
Just to get off the topic of the officials for a second, I really hate the OTHER story line that is currently being pumped out by the sports media machine: that this was a bad super bowl between two sub-par teams.
Everyone knows that the Steeler’s defence is good – is it so hard to think that they had something to do with Seattle’s sometimes sputtering offence? I also think that Seattle’s defence was much better than anyone in pundit land is ready to admit. It’s just possible that instead of Ben having a bad game, Seattle’s defence had a good game (with the exception of two plays…)
I think that bad officiating with arbitrarty, picky calls drains the drama from any game.
Speaking of boring contests between sub-par teams, you can tune in to NPR for wall to wall Senate hearings on the NSA phone tapping scandal. Zzzzzzzzz.
physics geek
“crappiest game ever played by a winning QB in the Super Bowl”
I dunno. John Elway pretty much sucked in the win over the Packers. Of course, with Davis running roughshod over Green Bay, it didn’t matter.
I wasn’t rooting for either team, but some of these “THE REFS GAVE THE GAME TO PITTSBURGH” really are annoying. I thought Ben was in the endzone before replay. The replay wasn’t conclusive, so I knew that it wasn’t going to be changed. If they’d rule no touchdown, that wouldn’t have been overturned. And anyone who thinks the Steelers wouldn’t have scored on 4th and millimeters probably needs to put down that crack pipe. Game-breaking plays:
Converting 3 and 28
75 yard TD run by Parker
Gadget play for a TD
In the end, the Steelers made a few more big plays than the Seahawks. The Steelers are worthy champions and anyone who claims differently is just whining.
zzyzx
To be honest, I wish the Steelers would have made a few more big plays. I could handle being able to say that we were outplayed. I’d much rather spend today reflecting back on a great season than spend it thinking about what could have been.
Sam Hutcheson
Is this another one of your deep debating skills? You make up whatever you want to say, and then simply dismiss any disagreement as ‘biased?’
No, John, that is your persecution complex running roughshod over your reasoning skills again. You seem to have me mistaken for someone who dismisses you regularly. I’m not. I’m not one of the regulars who complain about you personally or accuse you of being a shill for Republicans, etc. I actually think you’re generally a voice of reason, so far as the can come from the right side of the aisle these days, on political issues. I disagree with you sometimes, but never so much as to make me question your intellectual honesty on a given subject.
But on the subject of Steeler football, you are simply not a reliable source for objective review. Ever. While you occasionally put aside your partisanship with regard to politics (though not enough to vote for the other ‘team’ yet), you can’t ever see through your bias regarding the Steelers. Which isn’t a big, huge deal. Sports are funny that way. They’re the modern American equivalent of violent civil war, so expecting rational thought from people with bloodlines in play is a bit hopeless.
None of which makes you any less biased on this subject, and none of which dismisses anything I’ve said previously in this thread. I have, in point of fact, given up on actually reasoning with you on this particular point, though, so yes, essentially you’ve reduced me to pointing out the nature of your bias and letting things be at that. Congratulation, I guess.
rilkefan
Talk about damning with faint praise, Sam can’t even manage the standard plural-like interjection.
jg
Congrats to the Steelers and to JC.
That feeling you have right now is the same one that got me past Bush winning the election. After the Red Sox won the WS I was too happy to care about the election.
Will Cindy Sheehan ever mean anything to you again? I doubt it.
John Cole
Sam- I am not saying I am objective- I am a diehard Steeler partisan. But that does not make my assessment of what happened wrong.
I say the ball passed the plane in the end zone on Ben’s bootleg. How and why do I say this? Because I watched it in slow motion – the angle shown on tv may appear that he did not get in if you aren’t paying attention, or if you are getting caught up by the movement of the ball AFTER Ben was down, but the ball broke the plane. I watched it fifteen times in slo-mo. It has nothing to do with my objectivity. Have you freeze-framed your way through the play fifteen times?
I say the call in the end zone for pass interference was a tickytack call that I hate, but that is by the rule book. Why? because it is. You may not like that it was called, and we will both agree that calls like that are not normally made, but in the endzone, right in front of the ref? That is going to get called 9 times out of 10. If Chris Hope had pushed Jackson with the same force, it would easily have been Defensive pass interference. Do I think pass interference calls are, in general, made too widely throughout the NFL? Absolutely. But he pushed off, and he got called. Sorry you don’t like it, but it was a legit call, even if one that is not called very often. Explain to me how my Steeler partisanship is affecting me on this one. And btw, had it happened to a Steeler defender, it would have pissed me off, too. But that doesn’t mean it was a bullshit call.
Or what about my assessment that the Hasselbeck tackle/penalty was crap? Am I just loking through my Steeler jaundiced eyes? Or am I being objective, because you agree with me on that one?
The fact of the mattr is that in this thread you think ‘debate’ means simply spewing forth whatever you want, even if you recant it two comments later, and then when someone responds to your coments, you disregard them as biased.
jg
ON my replay that ball broke the plane, just before the defender made contact, still about a foot in the air.
I don’t know what the line judge was doing throwing up all kinds of different arm signals. He wasn’t saying touchdown the from the beginning, he seemed to change his mind. Too bad for Seattle. If he’d rule him down I doubt the ref would rule the ball broke the plane after replay if he needs indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field.
Then again if they don’t call pass interfernce on Assante Samuels maybe NE beats Denver, then beats Pittsburgh at home and Seattle could have lost to a different team instead.
ppGaz
Or, they had fewer negated or called back.
Either way, when you spot one team ten or fifteen points, you …. have spotted them ten or fifteen points.
But of course, what are a few details when the important thing is that [sniff] Jerome {placeholder} got his trophy.
Which is short for, Jerome {finally} got his trophy. You know, because if there is anything we hate, it’s a guy playing his whole career and not getting a trophy. It’s like Pee Wee football, everybody is supposed to have a good time. Everybody gets a trophy.
But especially, it’s important that Jerome FINALLY got his.
Because, he’s, you know, just a cuddly lovable Barney the Dinosaur. Well, a black Barney. Well, a Barney who knocks people on their ass. But still lovable. I mean, it’s a ‘Burgh thing. A town where they commemorate sports moments with markers in the sidewalk.
So you know, they can bitch until hell freezes over about the officiating in a GAME THEY WON but heaven forbid you bitch about the officiating in a GAME THEY WON. Oh wait, I mean, bitch about officiating when it GOES AGAINST THEM.
Well, you know what I mean. Right? Jerome FINALLY got his trophy.
John Cole
Yeah. PPGAZ isn’t goading me.
Hell, I would be a new found Seahawks diehard if I lived in Arizona. Go Seahawks, right PPGAZ? Can you name any of their players yet?
ppGaz
Sorry, I covered that angle BEFORE THE GAME. Too late, John.
Try again.
ppGaz
Oh wait, is “The Bus” one of their players?
ppGaz
I know this much, if Pittsburgh had lost and those calls had all gone against them, you’d be dead of a heart attack right now. And posting from the beyond about how it was the end of life on the planet.
Sam Hutcheson
You throw out enough “well that was bads” to make it look like you’re being reasonable, but then you follow them up with “but that happens.” If the same thing had happened to a Steeler, you wouldn’t be breaking out the “but that happens” rationalization, you’d be on a rant that made your Palomalu interception tirades look like kindergarten playground squabbles. Am I projecting onto you actions you haven’t made? Yes. Am I suggesting actions your historical record on the subject doesn’t suggest? No.
If the PI was a bogus call in week, or if the ref was 20 yards downfield, it was a bogus call last night too. It doesn’t change values based on where the ref happens to be standing. Add into the mix the fact that the ref wasn’t making a call until the defender started lobbying harder than Abramoff on a bender and you get a truly horrific call.
The holding call was horrible as well. The tackle/roughness stupidity doesn’t come into play if it’s first and goal on the 2, and no, I’m not terribly impressed that your gracious enough to “give back” a call that would make Pop Warner refs look silly that, oh by the way, happened after the game had been salted away by equally egregious and more game-altering calls.
As for the QB dive, I don’t really care that you freeze-framed your way through it enough times to convince yourself that, oh no, that was over the line. I am well aware of what the human animal will do to rationalize the outcomes that he hopes for. What I’m more interested in is why the line judge came running in from the sideline with his hand in the air, clearly running to spot the ball for fourth and inches, then decides three steps away that by golly, that was a touchdown. What do you think made his mind up, there? I’ll give you two choices. One is that he was bought and paid for (unlikely in my opinion.) The other is that he suddenly saw the ball over the line where it had been pushed after the runner was down, and he changed his call. Incompetence or maliciousness? Either way, he made the wrong call, because based on what he saw during live action (and based on what I saw on replays) his first instinct was correct. That ball did not cross the plane.
ppGaz
The truth is, we’ll never know, and more importantly, nobody on the field knew at the time. But hey, that’s football.
But why aren’t we hearing more about how great is is that Jerome, the man who cured Polio, finally Got His Trophy?
ppGaz
Did the Refs Ruin the Super Bowl?
But hey, what do those guys know? Buncha goaders. Can they even NAME any Seattle players?
John Cole
PPGAZ- My God, you are stupid. I have said every call that could have gone either way or was iffy went for the Steelers. I have said the refs made some bad calls.
What you pricks won’t concede is that it is as clear cut as you assert. Even Skip Bayless (who hates the Steelers to the point he is to this day arguing that bettis should not be in the HoF) and Mike Smith state the ben td was in fact a td. In short, what you want is every call that went the Steelers way to have gone the Seahawks way, and then the reffing would have been ‘fair.’
There were some blown calls- there always are. If they had happened to the Steelers, I would have been livid, and they were simply bad calls (the Hasselback tackle for one).
There were some questionable calls that broke the Steelers way (the PI, for example), that had they happened to the Steelers, I would have been pissed. But those were by the rule.
Sam- How the hell can you expect me to reasonable ‘debate’ you when you write crap like this:
The pictures show the ball over the line in the middle of the air, yet I am the one rationalizing. Whatever.
ppGaz
They aren’t paying you enough, John. Really. That was brilliant.
That’s it, I’m defeated.
John Cole
Great piece, PPGAZ. He argues the Seahawks got cheatedm and then the first thing he bitches about is a good call:
Well, golly gee. I guess he is right. If the refs had just let Seattle do whatever, they very well might have won.
joshua
This is why the NFL needs full time officials. People who are paid a salary to do one thing: officiate. Paid solely to know the rules, word by fucking word, and to spend the off-season studying and understanding the yearly rule changes (like the pylon and the horsecollar tackle changes from last season). Not this “side job” bullshit. The officiating was so permeatingly shitty that to think that it was anything other than pure shittiness is retarded. (Except for the PI call, because you don’t get to even look like you committed PI in front of a fucking ref. That’s just common sense.)
Ezert
There’s just tons of holes in some people’s logic. But I do need to just point out something that is just plain wrong.
Just wrong. He was reaching into his pocket right away. Did you notice he never called touchdaown either? Why do you think that is? I’d still like to know, if roles were reversed, and Hope pushed Jackson and got flagged, would that be bs?
All the whining is lame. Look at the top of this thread. Jerome is holding the Lombardi. It’s in Pittsburgh. We’re having our parade tomorrow. All your whining won’t change it. And even if Seattle would have gotten all those calls their way, the Steelers would have muscled up and scored more. It’s what champions do. It’s what they did against Indy.
Paul T.
Yes it is all true. I instructed the referees and umpires to only call penalties on Seattle. When it looked like that wasn’t going to be enough for the Steelers to win I made a deal with Holmgren (coaching legend). He would do a shite job of play calling and clock management in return all offical
NFL media will refere to him as a genius. In addition I slipped Brown $20 for each kick he shanked though he probably wasn’t going to hit the 54 yarder.
If you would like your team to win next year’s Super Bowl contact me and for the right money I can make it happen.
The Patriots tuck rule Championship was $1.5 million, the Polamala no Int call was 250K for just that call.
jg
I think he was making the call the whole time but whiffed the first time he went to throw the flag.
John Cole
The replay clearly shows the ref going for the flag and missing, and then throwing it after Hope bitched. it looks like he wasn’t doing it until Hope said something,m but that is just false. He was calling it all the time.
Of course, the replay also shows Hope moving backwards and having his direction and foot positioning changed after being pushed, but according to our ‘unbiased’ cheerleaders here, all of that is impossible since it was just a couple guys ‘flailing’ their arms at each other.
Ezert
I would also go easy on Brown missing those field goals. Since when is a guy a bum for missing a 50 and 54-yarder? Even in a dome.
ppGaz
It just ….. so …. beautiful.
Jerome got his trophy.
The bathos!
No, what the NFL wants is for Jerome To Have His Lombardi.
I can’t believe you got the Terri Schiavo thing wrong, John. Now THAT was bathos! And a couple of bad ref calls, of course.
jg
The good thing about all these whacky conspiracy theories involving Jerome finally geting a ring is that people will stop talking about the whacky conspiracy theory that the league wanted a team with a patriotic name to win the Super Bowl after 9/11.
The Disenfranchised Voter
And here I thought some of the Seahawks fans were bad…
ppGaz
TDV, I think the next phase is, “We won. Get over it.”
The Disenfranchised Voter
Hey while I’m not a believer in that conspiracy theory, you gotta admit, that is one weird coincidence.
Ezert
Yeah, what a weird coincidence, the Seahawks committ penalties, Steelers score touchdaowns, Steelers win.
Come one people. We’re in the looking glass here.
Ezert
Nevermind.
I saw you were talking about the ’01 Super Bowl.
You’re right about that one.
Robbie
I’m glad the Steelers won…but the officiating has cast a dark cloud over this win. The officiating was the worse I have ever seen. It looked liked the fix was in. However, I agree that in the last quarter the Seahawks made some major coaching errors and didn’t manage the clock very well at all. In other words, the Seahawks didn’t help themselves. The NFL needs to retool its officiating training and get rid of the officials that worked this Super Bowl. I wanted a clean win for the Steelers. This one has left a bad taste in my mouth.
jg
My favorite sports conspiracy theory is that Michael Jordans first retirement was actually a suspension for gambling.
Sam
John,
I’ll accept all of your explanations, but you still haven’t responded to the John Clayton story which clearly indicates that Darrell Jackson’s catch was a touchdown. That strikes me as the most questionable call. The rule seems so absolutely clear cut.
And whoever wondered how a refereee in the booth could screw that up makes an excellent point – what an idiot.
Mac Buckets
Ben on Letterman: “I told the coach I didn’t get in” on the TD. Ben was going to run it again on fourth down. He appears to be a good guy — let Dave shave off his beard.
Just thought you’d like to know.
Jake
Clayton appears to have misinterpreted the explanation of the rule that he got. The rule used to be “once you touch the pylon, you are out of bounds”, and other sources describe the change as “A player who touches a pylon remains in-bounds until any part of his body touches the ground out-of-bounds” (SportsAttic) or “A player no longer can be ruled out of bounds when he touches a pylon unless he already touched the
boundary line” (the NFL).
If you think about it, it makes little sense that a catch made at the goal line would be complete while the same catch a yard further down the field into the end zone would be incomplete, or that the pylon is suddenly transformed into a magical “in bounds free” marker. Dude didn’t get both feet in bounds, hence no catch. Had he his trailing foot hit the pylon and then the end zone, it would have been a touchdown under the new rule, but not the old one. Of course, he could have just dragged the toe… but the game was full of “if the Seahawks player had only…” moments.
John Cole
Of course he didn’t think he got in- that is why he kept trying to move the ball even when he was on the ground. But the replay clearly shows that the ball did break the plane while he was in the air.
Vlad
“It was an ugly win, and I feel bad for the Seahawks and their fans- those two calls were unfair- but I think the Steelers won fair and square.”
Yep, just so.
Halffasthero
Holy Cow! John and ppgaz need to exercise a litte restraint here. It was an issue laden football game but it was just a game. You two are going at each others throats like I have never seen before. I would expect some heated snark and exchanges from others whers-who-shall-remain-nameless but you two are starting to take the cake.
I think a group hug is in order here. A little sensitivity training might also be in order.
Its also time to face facts – it is hockey season. Nothing else matters. Minnesota is once again ranked #1 in college polls. the Wild are batting 500. Everything is back to normal.
gcauthon
I’ve seen so many people make completely irrational arguments over this game.
On the interference, I’ve seen people claim that Jackson was all alone in the end-zone, Jackson and Hope pushed each other simultaneously, Jackson was just lightly brushing Hope’s arm away, Jackson pushed him away but only to get a little separation, etc.
On the hold, people are aguing that Haggans just fell over for some reason, Haggans was across the line of scrimmage before the snap, Locklear only hooked him a little and only with one arm, etc.
The arguments over those two calls are completely insane. Locklear hooked and Jackson pushed. Anyone with half a brain can see at least that much from the film.
As far as the illegal block goes, this kind of thing happens all the time. On special teams plays and interception returns, I’ve seen illegal blocks called on players that were on the sideline, jersey numbers that were retired, players that were on the other end of the field, etc. Usually what happens is they just called the penalty on the wrong guy. I’m not saying that’s what happened here, but you can’t judge the whole play just by focusing on what Hasselbeck did.
Josh
The fix sure was in. Like, when two of first four offensive plays the Steelers ran were false starts, that was just a ploy to pre-empt the perception of bias so that the refs could blatantly favor the Steelers later. Too bad it doesn’t seem to have worked. Or maybe it was because everyone knows that two false starts are a great confidence-builder for a second-year quarterback in the biggest game of his life. If it weren’t for the clear-sighted and preternaturally perceptive posters on this board, I might think that there were a few close, but defensible, calls in the first half, followed by a few more in the second, topped off by an awful call on the runback that has made everyone see patterns that don’t exist.
Ezert
To get back to the second Jackson catch, where his foot hit the pylon. I knew it wasn’t suspicious since all the other stuff I’ve read away from this site never mentioned it. It was out of bounds.
Ezert
More
Ezert
Those quotes are from here, which for some reason I can’t link to.
http://www.insidefootball.com/int/askofficial.html
Lon-Ton
did anyone complaing about this non-TD watch the replay? i’m guessing not, because his right foot never – never-ever was in bounds. He had control, and yes, his left foot did hit the pylon, but his right foot was already 12 inches out when he caught the ball.
Molly
I’ve been a Steelers fan since birth and have heard every comment under the sun. No, the Steelers didn’t play a fasscinating game…at times it was boring. However, you must look at the whole season and the big picture. There is always going to be someone who disagrees with a call…just try being a boisterous Steelers fan in the heart of New England!! Thanks Cower and Company for allowing me to shut up some Pats fans….